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Why are TROLLS trying to sabotage a KDF expnasion?
oldkhemaraa
Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
I'd really like to know.
I've seen an awefull lot of it over the last couple months when it was finally confirmed that KDF is going to getting some love here.
What I have seen the most of as an excuse....
KDF will have dilithium farming nerfed...
Really? What gave you that impression? Its much more likely that the Studio will improve the ability of Fed players to farm thier dayly limit.
KDF expansion will dilute the Fed player base.
Amazing! Its possible more then two brain cells got together on that though! Of course the Fed faction may finally shed some of t\its Baron Vladimir Harkonnen-esk bloat. It allready by cryptics own number crunching at one point outnumberes the KDF players by better then 4 to 1. More likely w now that they can stahats going to happen is a few players will move over to t at level 1 and experience the KDF story (which, by the way, is a Trek thing, not a KDF thing). More importantly incoming NEW player will get a choice to start play as KDF. Over time that will be where the improvement in the player ratio will happen.
There will be less fed items in the Zen Store!
Oh whoh is me! I tear at my hair, and gnash my teeth, don a sack cloth and rub ashes apon my head and body. Zion has fallen!
Wow, just amazing.. Ok, Fact One: there are like 3 or 4 cannon starship fed side that have not been done. There is a Number 5, but it has been stated repeatedly that Cryptic will NOT do the U.S.S. Shelly. Fact 2: From this point forward Fed item are going to be hitting a much lengthier vetting and approval process from CBS, because Cryptic will be creating CANON additions to the trek universe! Fed stuff will simply take longer to be approved. WHY? Because CBS tends to tell the stories of the Trek universe from a Federation point of view.
Addendum: I personally think the world is ready for Star Trek: Battlecruiser Vengence
it would be total cheese, many space battles, a few interstellar issues solved with massive firepower, courage, and a application of a Bat'leth where needed, and every week will have a new and utterly babely alien female who will be overcome by the captains manly charms, rugged good looks, and unrefutable sense of honor and duty. And a nemisis federation, and romulan ship that always just manages to escape destruction after utterly failing in thier mission to stop the depredations of the I.K.S. Vengence. Thats right, a Trek show that sells with strait up sex and violence.. what fun! But we will be sneaky.. there will be moral dilema's, and decisions that come back to haunt our stalwart crew, captain, and ship. And when all is said and done, it WILL be Star Trek.
Wheres my pop corn?
Fact 3: I'll think up something later..
STO is a game, a MMO. One that someday hopes to have some pretty awesome PvP stuff going at the level of EPIC.. ya know, a war, a real, honest to badness, territorials, star sytem conquering, ship smashing war with all the trimmings! Supply, logistics, convoys (and the raiding there of) secret bases and outposts to be created, or smashed. Battles in space, Battles on the ground. BIG AMAZING BATTLES WITH DOZEN OF PLAYERS AND HUNDREDS OF SHIP AND NPC'S
That is the long term goal.. peacefull trek stories while much as you might want them, are things of the writers imagination and are grist for the foundry authors. Like it or not we do not yet have the level of interaction you see in a star trek holodeck. That takes a AI/expert program that we simply do not have the technology for yet. I'm afraid "Orginized" mission based roleplay requires a Game master still. Computer can make the job easier but cannot quite do it yet. Be nice if the devs would create a way to have a Game Master act run an adventure. Oh well. Add it to the list.
For now, this is a multiplayer, multi-faction MMO that is suffering from having ONE of its two factions dangerously under represnted and under populated for the long term health of this title. Take a good look around out there in the MMO market place and take a good look at the MMO's with factions and how they are handled.. See anything unusuall about STO? Thats right, its the only MMO out there with half a faction as far as what a player can do.
Ah, but you claim that Cryptic is doing something different.. It'll work, it just takes time!
Right.. 20 years of MMO's.. first as Dialup, later via the internet. There is a reason conventional wisdom tand to be right.. It's because conventional wisdom is based aopon real world results. It can be overturned, but historically when it happens, it happens very fast. STO hase been here 3 years.. If there was an experiment to take the road less travelled... it's allready failed. Dev studio's that do that sort of thing with MMO's notice the difference right away! Thats what happened with Bliz and WOW, and what has happened with NCSoft's MMO's. We've come a very very long way since Lord British and Everquest.
SO if your still beliving in some sort of great experiment (there never was one folks) then I want you drugs when they take you away because they gotta be awesome if your that delusional!
STOP TRYING TO TEAR DOWN IMPROVEMENT OF THE KDF FACTION EXPERIENCE!
CEASE!
STOP!
DESIST!
Its very short sided, and stupidly selfish. In the long term, (which isn't all that long!) it will kill this game. Furthermore, it will eventually poison the development team, and thier hopes, and dream of what the Star Trek experience is they want to create. The moment that happens this games turns from the latest canon Star Trek (which it is!).
STO will turn from what it could be to just another way to milk money from the IP, owned by PWI. and milked for every single penny. It will turn into pay to win then. And the dev team will go to maintainence mode.. with just sufficient new content to keep interest up.
And please to note that it will not be CBS's fault, or PWI/PWE's fault, or Cryptic Studio's fault. It will be OUR fault. All of us. All the players. Fed or KDF, or any other factions that should appear. Why? Because some of us couldn't think about more then our own gimmies.
Think about it.
Khemaraa sends
I've seen an awefull lot of it over the last couple months when it was finally confirmed that KDF is going to getting some love here.
What I have seen the most of as an excuse....
KDF will have dilithium farming nerfed...
Really? What gave you that impression? Its much more likely that the Studio will improve the ability of Fed players to farm thier dayly limit.
KDF expansion will dilute the Fed player base.
Amazing! Its possible more then two brain cells got together on that though! Of course the Fed faction may finally shed some of t\its Baron Vladimir Harkonnen-esk bloat. It allready by cryptics own number crunching at one point outnumberes the KDF players by better then 4 to 1. More likely w now that they can stahats going to happen is a few players will move over to t at level 1 and experience the KDF story (which, by the way, is a Trek thing, not a KDF thing). More importantly incoming NEW player will get a choice to start play as KDF. Over time that will be where the improvement in the player ratio will happen.
There will be less fed items in the Zen Store!
Oh whoh is me! I tear at my hair, and gnash my teeth, don a sack cloth and rub ashes apon my head and body. Zion has fallen!
Wow, just amazing.. Ok, Fact One: there are like 3 or 4 cannon starship fed side that have not been done. There is a Number 5, but it has been stated repeatedly that Cryptic will NOT do the U.S.S. Shelly. Fact 2: From this point forward Fed item are going to be hitting a much lengthier vetting and approval process from CBS, because Cryptic will be creating CANON additions to the trek universe! Fed stuff will simply take longer to be approved. WHY? Because CBS tends to tell the stories of the Trek universe from a Federation point of view.
Addendum: I personally think the world is ready for Star Trek: Battlecruiser Vengence
it would be total cheese, many space battles, a few interstellar issues solved with massive firepower, courage, and a application of a Bat'leth where needed, and every week will have a new and utterly babely alien female who will be overcome by the captains manly charms, rugged good looks, and unrefutable sense of honor and duty. And a nemisis federation, and romulan ship that always just manages to escape destruction after utterly failing in thier mission to stop the depredations of the I.K.S. Vengence. Thats right, a Trek show that sells with strait up sex and violence.. what fun! But we will be sneaky.. there will be moral dilema's, and decisions that come back to haunt our stalwart crew, captain, and ship. And when all is said and done, it WILL be Star Trek.
Wheres my pop corn?
Fact 3: I'll think up something later..
STO is a game, a MMO. One that someday hopes to have some pretty awesome PvP stuff going at the level of EPIC.. ya know, a war, a real, honest to badness, territorials, star sytem conquering, ship smashing war with all the trimmings! Supply, logistics, convoys (and the raiding there of) secret bases and outposts to be created, or smashed. Battles in space, Battles on the ground. BIG AMAZING BATTLES WITH DOZEN OF PLAYERS AND HUNDREDS OF SHIP AND NPC'S
That is the long term goal.. peacefull trek stories while much as you might want them, are things of the writers imagination and are grist for the foundry authors. Like it or not we do not yet have the level of interaction you see in a star trek holodeck. That takes a AI/expert program that we simply do not have the technology for yet. I'm afraid "Orginized" mission based roleplay requires a Game master still. Computer can make the job easier but cannot quite do it yet. Be nice if the devs would create a way to have a Game Master act run an adventure. Oh well. Add it to the list.
For now, this is a multiplayer, multi-faction MMO that is suffering from having ONE of its two factions dangerously under represnted and under populated for the long term health of this title. Take a good look around out there in the MMO market place and take a good look at the MMO's with factions and how they are handled.. See anything unusuall about STO? Thats right, its the only MMO out there with half a faction as far as what a player can do.
Ah, but you claim that Cryptic is doing something different.. It'll work, it just takes time!
Right.. 20 years of MMO's.. first as Dialup, later via the internet. There is a reason conventional wisdom tand to be right.. It's because conventional wisdom is based aopon real world results. It can be overturned, but historically when it happens, it happens very fast. STO hase been here 3 years.. If there was an experiment to take the road less travelled... it's allready failed. Dev studio's that do that sort of thing with MMO's notice the difference right away! Thats what happened with Bliz and WOW, and what has happened with NCSoft's MMO's. We've come a very very long way since Lord British and Everquest.
SO if your still beliving in some sort of great experiment (there never was one folks) then I want you drugs when they take you away because they gotta be awesome if your that delusional!
STOP TRYING TO TEAR DOWN IMPROVEMENT OF THE KDF FACTION EXPERIENCE!
CEASE!
STOP!
DESIST!
Its very short sided, and stupidly selfish. In the long term, (which isn't all that long!) it will kill this game. Furthermore, it will eventually poison the development team, and thier hopes, and dream of what the Star Trek experience is they want to create. The moment that happens this games turns from the latest canon Star Trek (which it is!).
STO will turn from what it could be to just another way to milk money from the IP, owned by PWI. and milked for every single penny. It will turn into pay to win then. And the dev team will go to maintainence mode.. with just sufficient new content to keep interest up.
And please to note that it will not be CBS's fault, or PWI/PWE's fault, or Cryptic Studio's fault. It will be OUR fault. All of us. All the players. Fed or KDF, or any other factions that should appear. Why? Because some of us couldn't think about more then our own gimmies.
Think about it.
Khemaraa sends
"I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
It'd be like someone shooting themselves in the knee. Pretty much everyone in this game is a KDF and a Fed. Weather they play both factions full-blown or just use one of them as a farm character.
This isn't an mmo where factions are divided and where rivalry between the factions is encouraged. The player base for both faction are exactly the same people.
Same reason the Borg assimilate people. It's in their nature.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
I thought I can say something, but you've already pretty much nailed it!
Chill out Kemara, press your proverbial 'ignore' button to this kind of people. I don't think the devs. percieve them or their opinions at all, they play a whole other game.
Khemaraa has it absolutely right.
Once upon a time...well...we don't need a long story. Let's just say that a few years back there was another Trek-based war game in which the factions actually were balanced. I am talking about hundreds of ships on each side of the equation...and there was a certain -- very small -- but somewhat vocal group of Federation players who would do anything they could possibly do to bring grief to the Klingon faction -- everything from restricting certain weapons and ship types to TRIBBLE with the game mechanics. These forums are tame in comparison to some of the bad blood that was poured out in rivers on those forums. Khemaraa was there -- many of us were, and he knows of which I speak.
Those types of Federation players do exist in this game -- for them, it is about living their passion -- they really do not care about "game balance" -- they want to be that Kirk or Picard within the game...and that other faction -- KDF -- which has the nerve to have some very skilled pilots of their own that can challenge the dominance of the Federation...well...that just won't do. The KDF is the fly in their imaginary ointment.
And trust me...there is no reasoning with them. It is a die-hard attitude that in many ways is very self destructive within a game universe -- it is an attitude that defies rational explaination, or reason. It is the same attitude that -- in STO -- has constantly called for the KDF faction to be somehow eliminated from the game, or otherwise completely absorbed by the Federation til there is no independence of thought, no opposing faction that can throw a wrench into the works of the utopian vision of Federation dominance.
About their concerns regarding diluting the Federation player base -- I actually find that funny. We have been repeatedly told that the KDF represents something like 19% of the player base -- in fact, Cryptic used that very percentage as the justification for LESS KDF content and ships...and now that we MIGHT actually get a boost, the vast Federation playerbase feels threatened.
They are right to feel threatened. KDF ships are more fun to fly, to be honest. If the storyline is done right, and if KDF "culture" shines through with its warrior philosophy and true independence that will also bring more and more players into the KDF fold.
Not to mention that once that starts to happen, and if the scales start to balance out -- even by 5% or so -- then the Federation player base will no longer have that abstract monopoly on new ship releases in the C-Store -- or new content. That is probably also driving some of this attitude you are seeing on the forums. Should their numbers go down...that potentially can change the economic balance of power to a more equal distribution...and the development of new content and new ships will likely follow suit.
What I am not seeing yet...but what is inevitable...is that when and if there is a Romulan faction...then the Federation player base will be diluted even more. The same will be true for any new factions brought into the game. In each case, the Federation player base will lose players to the new faction. That is not necessarily true for the KDF -- sure...we might start a character or two in a new faction...but the current core of the KDF represents a very hardcore, dedicated player base. If you have held on in this game as Klingon for the past three years, then it is likely that you will continue to do so, especially if more content comes our way. That is something that some of the Federation players also fear -- because once that starts happening...their monopoly on this game goes away. I think that is a very good thing indeed.
Actually like the "vast Federation playerbase" I don't really give enough of a damn about the KDF to feel threatened.
I don't think anyone does.
Presonally other than some c-store ships I don't see what the big deal is:
Story mission that you could do in a couple hours of play? Meh
40 more days till my fleet has T5 shipyard and I can get my Fleet B'rel - anything else I don't really care much about.
It's basic economics. Supply and Demand. If there is not enough demand, it won't be supplied. A post like this blaming trolls? That isn't going to do anything and neither are the trolls. The simple fact of a small minority of the player base as a whole playing KDF side would be what, if anything the reason for not supplying a full scale KDF update. Why waste a massive update on 20-25% of your player base?
Yes KDF will get an update, that is certain and set in stone, at what point in time and how big an update is not yet specified.
There is a slight paradox tho. I Think the lack of KDF content to date is what has been keeping a lot of players from playing KDF so that keeps the numbers (demand) down so the supply has been borderline anorexic in coming.
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Quoting for the sanity to be found within.
But I would play my KDF for more than just farming if there was more to do than be a cliche space Viking for ten missions. Alpha was a good start.
If anyone should complain about the story missions, it's probably the FEDs. Mountains and mountains of extra junk, almost none of which feels in any way applicable to the style of play you'd expect.
If people think "more junk, regardless of what we're getting" is what people really want, maybe they need to re-evaluate their thought process.
KDF should have a few more ships. A lot more costumes. And be selectable for level 1 from the beginning. Some more PvE content to even the field. All of that I agree with. Beyond that I find a lot of the hand wringing hard to take seriously.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
/thread
Well there's also that. I suppose we shouldn't feed it.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
As we see in other threads there are people who think the KDF exists only to serve their Federation alts.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=572711
In this particular case as a farming tool for dilithium and it should stay that way.
Regarding Ker'rat: The only time I've seen KDF players complain about Feddies ganging up is when they get a huge cloud of 5-10 players and spawncamp the KDF spawn (and when Feddies spawncamp, they KEEP spawncamping for hours on end until someone cleans 'em out). Otherwise, we just roll with the punches.
Whereas Federation players tend to complain about everything from de-cloak ambushes, spawncamping (happens with much less regularity than the Fed spawncamping), and just generally getting blown up.
You know nothing about me, or any other federation player, and that is why we don't care about your problems.
For the record, you can have a healthy game and community with only one faction. Perhaps we should improve the health of the game and community by removing the KDF altogether? If half the KDF players left as opposed to playing as fed instead that is only a 10% loss of customers.
Worth it to stop the continuous whining from the KDF.
I think he only referred to those Fed players who openly told us on the forums they only use the KDF as a farming tool.
But don't let that get in the way of your post.;)
Oh, BTW does that mean before someone posts something about the KDF he needs to get to know every Fed player personally, because otherwise what other way is there to know something about the other one, like you just lamented?
That said though never in any of the other MMOs have i seen such a self entitled bunch, I remember when I used to play SWG back before it died and it was generally accepted that sometimes you have to wait while the devs diverted their time to something that needed working on desperately (like PvP or a particular profession that needed updating). Most of the people were fine with it and accepted that the games health depended on it, there was a small minority of people that kicked up a stink but yeah thats always going to happen.It certainly wasn't a huge amount of a entire faction.
Oh and they had like 5 devs including the producer at the time and still managed it so no excuses Cryptic.
Is your post intended to be ironic or are you actually responding to hawks3052's observation by doing the very same thing he's talking about while protesting you don't do that?
Indeed I just refered to those players. It looks like there are more than enough out there these days. I'm playing Fed, but more KDF and it I sad to see the selfinshes on the blue side.
"Federation players only care for the wellbeing of their faction".
Not really. I care about the KDF I just know after reading this forum for 3 years that not only will nothing ever really be done about it, but anything that is done will not satisfy the KDF community. Not until every fed player is forced to use shuttles.
"Their interest is not in a healthy game or community"
I answered this already. There is more than one way to achieve a healthy game.
"They can't tolerate any other thing beside their faction and do as much as they can to discredit the KDF and it's playerbase."
This is true of both sides isnt it? His entire post is aimed at discrediting the wants and concerns of the Federation faction. Most KDF posts in this forum are. Its like they all have a vendetta or something :rolleyes:
"They dislike as well that precious Dev time could be taken from them, so they come trolling to the Forums to make Cryptic now who "rightfully" deserves their singleminded attention"
This is also true of both sides. Difference is the Devs have stated the Feds deserve more time because there are more of them and that is where they make more money. You don't have to like it but its the truth.
I do wish people would think a bit more about what they say in their posts. It would avoid a lot of the senseless rambling we get here.
This, exactly this. This attitude -- amongst a small group of fed players -- is popular.
There are no cups in the kitchen.
a) one account slot is set specifically for fed
and
b) you have to play said slot for twenty five levels so most are loathe to start a new life on the kdf as they already have ec, dilithium and shinies on their fed and potentially federation bound c-store purchases?
Not that I want 1 to 25 for the kdf as it'd mean you'd have to grind 11 levels to get to doffing unlike the one now, but maybe cryptopwe should take the fact players are established from day 1 as a fed into account regarding playerbase - after all, to some its scary to try something new...
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Kdf getting a unique uniform, means the federation won't be, being kings of the hill and having all of the attention shown to them spoiled rotten like a little brat could end.
Not saying all feds are selfish spoiled people but odds are there are some out there that are so spoiled they would try to sabotage it.
I believe because some fans are so intent on playing thier fedforite faction that they will umdermine any other growth not thier own by posting TRIBBLE or posing as angry KDF players to stir up TRIBBLE to cause issues.
R.I.P
See it works both ways.
Besides, why would we bother? We already get the vast majority of the attention, trolling as you suggest wouldn't benefit us in any way.
Not saying no one does it, just there is no need.
Is it possible for a KDF thread to exist that doesn't eventually involve one or more members of the KDF calling every fed player a troll? Seems to me you guys stir up the most resentment between the factions.
Fed vs KDF is not the only division in the game, but it's the most obvious. And there's no point blaming it all on one side, there are haters on both sides loudly complaining about everything the other side has/gets/wants.
I do believe a unified playerbase would be better for the game and for the players. Even those who hate the other faction right now. Of course they aren't likely to ever merge the factions.
I think you managed to miss the distinction between "These Federation players" (that's the term hawks used and later confirmed he meant) and "all Federation players" which I haven't seen in this thread.