I've seen some people get the big-head but the most of the so-called "skill" in this game comes right out of the C-Store and your wallet. You got your bug and suddenly the only 1 that could keep up with you (and blow you to kingdon come) was Cypher with his bug. You actualy believe that's all your "skill" of buids and your "expert" piloting? That's P2W and nothing more. In this game, the more money you pay for lock-box ships and "cheese" consoles, the better "you" are. Sad, simple, but none the less true. The problem is with P2W is DPS sells and that put escorts on top. Crusiers don't sell due to limited DPS so Geko, in his infinate wisdom, doesn't even bother with them. It's all about the quick buck, here. That's why escorts have outpaced crusiers/sci by leaps and bounds, that and all the NERFS that crusiers and sci have had to endure. The sad part is, that Geko hasn't figured out is; if he actualy design a cruiser that was worth 2 cents BY adding DPS for a total DPS game, he'd probably sell some of the things. You can look thru this thread and tell there is a market, that's for sure.
O -- You know that I love cruisers, that I was playing a tac in cruiser from day one. I haven't spent a dime on zen in this game since I got my Odyssey Pack last year (I haven't been able to afford it). I get ALL my gear in game through the Dil to zen exchange and making EC to buy consoles and stuff. So P2W is NOT an issue here. In the video that Vex posted I was THE TOP DAMAGE/DPS in a refit Galaxy that I got with my VA token.
I. Know. How. To. Fly. A. Cruiser.
It is about how you pilot first, ship next, gear third.
That is all there is to it.
There really is no P2W, since I win without paying.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Everything I have talked about in relation to cruisers was purely from a pve point of view. Also watch that youtube video in my sig. 4 cruisers (3 galaxy's and a sovereign with an intrepid) doing infected elite in just over 5 minutes. Sorry but that shoots your entire point of view that cruisers cant do damage in stfs all to hell. Thank you on your second post for staying on topic.
It's the comparables, Vex. It's not that crusiers can't do 7K DPS in ISE, it's while they're doing 7K, I'm, and most probably you, are pushing 15.
Why take the crusier if 5 escorts can do the job BETTER via DPS and tanking? I tank tac-cubes with an escort (for comparables in PVE tanking) and I end up having to do it cause I steal agro from even the crusier with ALL the little points in threat due to that large DPS. Even in STFs. I'm able to run the 4th eng tanking console in the andy (and that extra Mk 12 purple makes a difference), the same way you are able to in the bug. While that crusier HAS to run a power console just to even think about doing 5K due to power contraints of the now NERFed to shreds 6 beams. All the time running 2 torps to lessen the power load without the turn rate to use them effectivly.
It's not that crusiers are worthless in PVE, it's that they are simply outclassed in PVE and everything they can do, my andy and your bug can do BETTER! Now, crusiers, without the P2L (pay-to-live) Oddy set up as nothing more than a heal-boat for some1 who could possibly kill something, is worthless in PVP, period.
So the 64 dollar question is......, why even have a crusier? That's the problem with this game and most of the people in this thread in a nutshell.
O -- You know that I love cruisers, that I was playing a tac in cruiser from day one. I haven't spent a dime on zen in this game since I got my Odyssey Pack last year (I haven't been able to afford it). I get ALL my gear in game through the Dil to zen exchange and making EC to buy consoles and stuff. So P2W is NOT an issue here. In the video that Vex posted I was THE TOP DAMAGE/DPS in a refit Galaxy that I got with my VA token.
I. Know. How. To. Fly. A. Cruiser.
It is about how you pilot first, ship next, gear third.
That is all there is to it.
There really is no P2W, since I win without paying.
Cutter, (I think this is Cutter - remember I'm old and I forget things now lol), that is still P2W Classic. Some1 bought that zen with real money that traded you for dil either by credit card or paying the big bucks outright for the lifer (like me). Either way, Cryptic cashed the ck (or the credit card slip as the case may be).
Cutter, (I think this is Cutter - remember I'm old and I get forget things now lol), that is still P2W Classic. Some1 bought that zen with real money that traded you for dil either by credit card or paying the big bucks outright for the lifer (like me). Either way, Cryptic cashed the ck (or the credit card slip as the case may be).
Not Cutter -- Protector (West) see sig.
But what it shows is that you don't need to be the one to lay out the money. And that anyone with a little work can get anything in this game. Work, you know that little four-letter word that seems to be lost on some people (and no, not referring to you in particular).
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Its not that hard to pull off 10k dps beam cruiser for STF, people here complaining about cruisers are just doing it wrong. You even get more overall encounter damage then escorts to sometimes due to FAW, and also being able to constantly fire without ever dying (yes if you die in a cruiser in an elite STF other then rarely on Hive elite or to an invistorp you are also doing it wrong) or being off target while having to evade/heal.
Cruisers have same access too many of the things escorts are using now days to increase DPS besides DHC, and can use abilities escorts don't have acess to so they can make up for this like 2x aux2bat and tech doffs, DEM3 with doff.
For beam DPS cruiser try this.
Use Regent or Fleet assault cruiser (just contact 1st Aquarius division to arrange to purchase)
7 beams at least Mk XI with any combination of CrtH and CrtD
1 Wide angle torp
(I have experimented with cutting beam to get omega 2piece bonus, I don't really need it due to power already high with aux2bat but can switch 1 beam out for it if you want)
2 rare male Romulan Tac boffs ( this is why I use regent over excelsior)
3 technician doffs of at least blue quality, 2 projectile torpedo doffs blue or better
Assimilated module, Zero Point energy conduit, and Tachyokinetic converter if you have it
Energy damage tac consoles at least Mk XI blue or better,
Lt Cmdr Tac- TT1, FAW2, APO1
Ensign Tac- TS1 (also train this boff in BO2 and APO1 and you can switch him around with the other tac boff as needed to switch FAW2 for BO2 whenever you want)
Just keep using aux2bat to put bring all your abilites down to global cooldown after using them and keep spamming your tac ablities like crazy and have high power levels in everything while doing it.
Ok, now I remember, sorry. It was in the memory banks but just buried somewhere in the fog that is the late 50s. lol
Edit; and thanks for not including me in that work clause. I ground jedi way back in SWG when jedi were something to behold. (before patch 9 for the old vets here) Now, that was a grind.
It's the comparables, Vex. It's not that crusiers can't do 7K DPS in ISE, it's while they're doing 7K, I'm, and most probably you, are pushing 15.
Why take the crusier if 5 escorts can do the job BETTER via DPS and tanking? I tank tac-cubes with an escort (for comparables in PVE tanking) and I end up having to do it cause I steal agro from even the crusier with ALL the little points in threat due to that large DPS. Even in STFs. I'm able to run the 4th eng tanking console in the andy (and that extra Mk 12 purple makes a difference), the same way you are able to in the bug. While that crusier HAS to run a power console just to even think about doing 5K due to power contraints of the now NERFed to shreds 6 beams. All the time running 2 torps to lessen the power load without the turn rate to use them effectivly.
It's not that crusiers are worthless in PVE, it's that they are simply outclassed in PVE and everything they can do, my andy and your bug can do BETTER! Now, crusiers, without the P2L (pay-to-live) Oddy set up as nothing more than a heal-boat for some1 who could possibly kill something, is worthless in PVP, period.
So the 64 dollar question is......, why even have a crusier? That's the problem with this game and most of the people in this thread in a nutshell.
...and with the introduction of carriers, Federation cruisers don't even have the advantage of being more durable or better at support or whatnot.
It's the comparables, Vex. It's not that crusiers can't do 7K DPS in ISE, it's while they're doing 7K, I'm, and most probably you, are pushing 15.
Why take the crusier if 5 escorts can do the job BETTER via DPS and tanking? I tank tac-cubes with an escort (for comparables in PVE tanking) and I end up having to do it cause I steal agro from even the crusier with ALL the little points in threat due to that large DPS. Even in STFs. I'm able to run the 4th eng tanking console in the andy (and that extra Mk 12 purple makes a difference), the same way you are able to in the bug. While that crusier HAS to run a power console just to even think about doing 5K due to power contraints of the now NERFed to shreds 6 beams. All the time running 2 torps to lessen the power load without the turn rate to use them effectivly.
It's not that crusiers are worthless in PVE, it's that they are simply outclassed in PVE and everything they can do, my andy and your bug can do BETTER! Now, crusiers, without the P2L (pay-to-live) Oddy set up as nothing more than a heal-boat for some1 who could possibly kill something, is worthless in PVP, period.
So the 64 dollar question is......, why even have a crusier? That's the problem with this game and most of the people in this thread in a nutshell.
Check out my 10k dps galaxy thread. I dont run any consoles to up my power. emergency to weapons 1 2 or 3 work just fine. You cant fly a cruiser the same way you could at release. Ive adapted my build to what works right now and I grind through stfs like nothing in my cruiser. I barely fly my escorts anymore. On my fed I fly my galaxy even in pvp and get kills with beam overloads with the romulan gear. On my kdf I bounce between the fleet tor'kaht, a fleet bop, the jemmy carrier and my bug. But mostly the cruiser or carrier. I love beams and the power of faw. If used right in pve its horrifying. In pvp yes I mostly fly escorts but from time to time I run the galaxy just to mess with people.
Sadly it seems many here rather complain that they cant fly a ship that looks like the Enterprise while being able to manuver like a bug and mount DHC with CRF3 instead of learning how to use their engineering abilities to increase their dps, and are not maxing out their crit bonuses.
you don't need to run 2 torps to help with power drain, you need proper spec and EPTW or aux2bat, and can get a little more help from the borg console and MACO shields, no other weapon power consoles are needed, this should be enough to let you fire 7 or 8 beams. Base Crit chance should be over 12%, and severity over 75% with the romulan boffs and 3 crit consoles so even beams will hit really hard provided you power them with eng ablities.
Sadly it seems many here rather complain that they cant fly a ship that looks like the Enterprise while being able to manuver like a bug and mount DHC with CRF3 instead of learning how to use their engineering abilities to increase their dps, and are not maxing out their crit bonuses.
you don't need to run 2 torps to help with power drain, you need proper spec and EPTW or aux2bat, and can get a little more help from the borg console and MACO shields, no other weapon power consoles are needed, this should be enough to let you fire 7 or 8 beams. Base Crit chance should be over 12%, and severity over 75% with the romulan boffs and 3 crit consoles so even beams will hit really hard provided you power them with eng ablities.
Can we be besties? The simple fact is you cant load a cruiser up with nothing but heals and expect to dps. Have more than 1 set of boffs to be more versatile. Theres no reason a decently geared (blue quality) cruiser with any class flying it cant do 5-7k dps. A team working together where everyone is pulling that much dps should have zero issue getting all the optionals in any stf including hive elite.
Check out my 10k dps galaxy thread. I dont run any consoles to up my power. emergency to weapons 1 2 or 3 work just fine. You cant fly a cruiser the same way you could at release. Ive adapted my build to what works right now and I grind through stfs like nothing in my cruiser. I barely fly my escorts anymore. On my fed I fly my galaxy even in pvp and get kills with beam overloads with the romulan gear. On my kdf I bounce between the fleet tor'kaht, a fleet bop, the jemmy carrier and my bug. But mostly the cruiser or carrier. I love beams and the power of faw. If used right in pve its horrifying. In pvp yes I mostly fly escorts but from time to time I run the galaxy just to mess with people.
Well, lol, this is a quandry. l get out of crusiers and you get into them. lol
/agree with you on FaW, even in it's post-NERF state. I still run FaW1 in the andy with 2 pol ACCX3 Mk 12 beams in the back to take care of danubes and other trash, errrr...., pets. I find it works just as well in PVE also.
Haven't been back long enough to get all the new little fancy gear as yet. Rom rep, tier 3 I think at this time. I'm still running MACO shields altho Cypher told me today to take O out of my storage fleet into his guild and back to get the new tier 5 shields. I still have 1 toon in with Cypher, Ras, and the rest but all my other toons are in a storage fleet, now tier 1.7 atm.
Can we be besties? The simple fact is you cant load a cruiser up with nothing but heals and expect to dps. Have more than 1 set of boffs to be more versatile. Theres no reason a decently geared (blue quality) cruiser with any class flying it cant do 5-7k dps. A team working together where everyone is pulling that much dps should have zero issue getting all the optionals in any stf including hive elite.
Its real fun when you can get a team of 10k+ DPS tac captain cruisers all doing FAW spam
my regent/fleet AC build I posted last page or your galaxy build would be great for that or using that gal build on a Fleet AC too.
Also I think I should have mentioned doffs too, they are all probably using tanking doffs like shield distribution or hazard systems doffs when they should be using ones to increase DPS like technicians for aux2bat, or damage control to keep EPTW and EPTS up, or projectile doffs or DEM doffs. And I bet most of them are using all Saurians and Human boffs instead of rare male romulan tacs, lol.
Sadly it seems many here rather complain that they cant fly a ship that looks like the Enterprise while being able to manuver like a bug and mount DHC with CRF3 instead of learning how to use their engineering abilities to increase their dps, and are not maxing out their crit bonuses.
you don't need to run 2 torps to help with power drain, you need proper spec and EPTW or aux2bat, and can get a little more help from the borg console and MACO shields, no other weapon power consoles are needed, this should be enough to let you fire 7 or 8 beams. Base Crit chance should be over 12%, and severity over 75% with the romulan boffs and 3 crit consoles so even beams will hit really hard provided you power them with eng ablities.
You never going to match my andy for power. I start every shot at 125+ and only drop to about 90 something after every volly. Even with the power console BO3 will take you down to 50 to 60 with only 6 beams not to even mention if you slot FaW3. That's with an EFF crew with the exception of 2 humans.
And with all the EPTW you start gimping your heals/buffs which are also needed in a crusier. I still slot other EPs, namely EPtS and doffs for 1 application, even tho they/it has fallen out of favor with some. But then again, I don't have to make the power v tanking choice. I fly an escort with 5 HCs up front.
You never going to match my andy for power. I start every shot at 125+ and only drop to about 90 something after every volly. Even with the power console BO3 will take you down to 50 to 60 with only 6 beams not to even mention if you slot FaW3. That's with an EFF crew with the exception of 2 humans.
And with all the EPTW you start gimping your heals/buffs which are also needed in a crusier. I still slot other EPs, namely EPtS and doffs for 1 application, even tho they/it has fallen out of favor with some.
my cruiser runs 2 emergency to shields, hazard emitters, transfer shields, engineering team and aux to sif... and thats my dps build.
Its real fun when you can get a team of 10k+ DPS tac captain cruisers all doing FAW spam
my regent/fleet AC build I posted last page or your galaxy build would be great for that or using that gal build on a Fleet AC too.
Also I think I should have mentioned doffs too, they are all probably using tanking doffs like shield distribution or hazard systems doffs when they should be using ones to increase DPS like technicians for aux2bat, or damage control to keep EPTW and EPTS up, or projectile doffs or DEM doffs. And I bet most of them are using all Saurians and Human boffs instead of rare male romulan tacs, lol.
Yes exactly. I run 2 damage control engineers 2 energy weapon doffs and a dem doff. I have enough defense for anything pve can throw at me with just my boffs. My doffs all directly effect my damage.
Its real fun when you can get a team of 10k+ DPS tac captain cruisers all doing FAW spam
my regent/fleet AC build I posted last page or your galaxy build would be great for that or using that gal build on a Fleet AC too.
Also I think I should have mentioned doffs too, they are all probably using tanking doffs like shield distribution or hazard systems doffs when they should be using ones to increase DPS like technicians for aux2bat, or damage control to keep EPTW and EPTS up, or projectile doffs or DEM doffs. And I bet most of them are using all Saurians and Human boffs instead of rare male romulan tacs, lol.
2x Shield distro, 2x Beam Doffs and Dem doff. And hit 10k+ DPS on ANY 5th tier crusier in game.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
You never going to match my andy for power. I start every shot at 125+ and only drop to about 90 something after every volly. Even with the power console BO3 will take you down to 50 to 60 with only 6 beams not to even mention if you slot FaW3. That's with an EFF crew with the exception of 2 humans.
And with all the EPTW you start gimping your heals/buffs which are also needed in a crusier. I still slot other EPs, namely EPtS and doffs for 1 application, even tho they/it has fallen out of favor with some.
If using EPTW you should be using damage control doffs to keep it and epts up with full uptime. If using BO3 the DEM doff is needed unless you are eng and you will be fine. I use 2 x Aux2bat 1 myself and have nor problem powering 7 beams mostly using FAW2. sometimes they might drop below 80 but not often, and I also mix in weapon batteries with the battery doff to help if needed.
I have and Andy and a Bug also, and while I do more burst damage and dps with these ships, I can get more total encounter damage with my cruisers sometimes. I can tank tac cubes in my Bug or Andy if I get aggro, but sometimes this means evading around and being off target while my cruiser is able to stay on target the whole time when it has aggro. Also sometimes my escort might die in HSE once or twice while my cruiser rarely does, so that is more lost DPS there from an escort.
my cruiser runs 2 emergency to shields, hazard emitters, transfer shields, engineering team and aux to sif... and thats my dps build.
Wait don't you mean 1 x EPTW and 1x EPTS if you said you were running damage control doffs in another post. Just wondering how you are powering your weapons.
Also wondering if you have tried aux2bat build instead, since I usually use that to do dps on cruiser but was considering going the EPTW route with damage control doffs and beam doffs to see if that worked better or not.
If using EPTW you should be using damage control doffs to keep it and epts up with full uptime. If using BO3 the DEM doff is needed unless you are eng and you will be fine. I use 2 x Aux2bat 1 myself and have nor problem powering 7 beams mostly using FAW2. sometimes they might drop below 80 but not often, and I also mix in weapon batteries with the battery doff to help if needed.
I have and Andy and a Bug also, and while I do more burst damage and dps with these ships, I can get more total encounter damage with my cruisers sometimes. I can tank tac cubes in my Bug or Andy if I get aggro, but sometimes this means evading around and being off target while my cruiser is able to stay on target the whole time when it has aggro. Also sometimes my escort might die in HSE once or twice while my cruiser rarely does, so that is more lost DPS there from an escort.
Your right, a cruiser can and does heal better than an escort but that is basicly the only thing remaining in the plus catagory for a crusier atm. That may change if Geko has his way and takes out the 4 armor/resists consoles out of the escorts and gives "light" armor in return for another plus to a crusier. But right now, the entire game of STO is based upon DPS, PVE and PVP, so that's what really got me out of my excel and I flew that for a long, long time and liked it.
I find no problem at all with tanking in the escort. It tanks better than the excel ever thought about and has the "get-the-flock-outta-dodge-buttons for PVP. Something the excel could never quite master, even with a macro on my G-510 board of a engine batt and 1 sec later, evasive. I tank tac cubes via the andy by flying into them with CSV a blazing, turn around at the cube and fly out with FaW running all the while staying withing the 10 range. The timers are just perfect for that. Running out of range of the cutting beam will give you a chance to recoup a bit for the next pass. I can basicly keep total agro with the andy the entire time allowing the others to get up close and do as much damage as they can. Another large + of the escort is TT. The crusiers I flew never seemed to have enough tac slots to allow for more than 1 and that was even a gimp to DPS right there, even with the excel's 3 slots, while an escort has no where near that problem.
I fully anticipate that DPS will go up when most get their hands on the new APs at tier 5 Star Base. Double ACC and double damage I believe might even get me out of my ACCX3 for even PVP allowing for futher burst/crit damage out of an escort.
And then of course, I doubt we've seen the last of the DPS coming out of the C-Store and lockboxes. It just sells to well. So, more DPS a coming to further widen the gap, I would imagine.
This is too funny. The first time I played STO everybody bitched about how OP cruisers were. Then the second time I played they bitched about how OP the science ships were. Now my third time playing and everybody is ******** about how OP escorts are. I'm sorry if you guys don't think this is funny, but I find it totally hilarious. :P
This is too funny. The first time I played STO everybody bitched about how OP cruisers were. Then the second time I played they bitched about how OP the science ships were. Now my third time playing and everybody is ******** about how OP escorts are. I'm sorry if you guys don't think this is funny, but I find it totally hilarious. :P
And you would be correct. STO used to be known on the PVP forums as "Crusiers Online" at one time. (escorts then were the typical glass cannons) Then the NERFs came. Next was Science, then the NERFs came to most all the Sci powers. All the while the C-Store/lockboxes was putting out escorts with more DPS, more eng slots, more of just about everything except for Boff healing slots.
The game was always pretty DPS dependant. (ever try Cry. Ent. way back when with a boat-load of cruisers?) But now, DPS is simply king with escorts being able to do pretty much everything better with the 1 exception of healing.
It appears that the cycle will be begin again with Geko looking to NERF the 4 armor slot escorts when really all that is needed is some additive passive armor for crusiers, some of the beam NERFs reversed, and a re-look at sci powers and reversal of the many NERFs that went on there.
Cryptic has a habit of putting something out that is very OP, not listening to feedback when it's on test, and then NERFing whatever system they worked on in the 1st place, to shreds in their final solution(s). And of course, selling power without any regard for game balance.
And you would be correct. STO used to be known on the PVP forums as "Crusiers Online" at one time. (escorts then were the typical glass cannons) Then the NERFs came. Next was Science, then the NERFs came to most all the Sci powers. All the while the C-Store/lockboxes was putting out escorts with more DPS, more eng slots, more of just about everything except for Boff healing slots.
The game was always pretty DPS dependant. (ever try Cry. Ent. way back when with a boat-load of cruisers?) But now, DPS is simply king with escorts being able to do pretty much everything better with the 1 exception of healing.
It appears that the cycle will be begin again with Geko looking to NERF the 4 armor slot escorts when really all that is needed is some additive passive armor for crusiers, some of the beam NERFs reversed, and a re-look at sci powers and reversal of the many NERFs that went on there.
Cryptic has a habit of putting something out that is very OP, not listening to feedback when it's on test, and then NERFing whatever system they worked on in the 1st place, to shreds in their final solution(s). And of course, selling power without any regard for game balance.
Im not here to defend cryptics decisions. I havent agreed with them all but I personally feel the game is better shape now and is more fun than at any point since release. PvP is in a shambles for sure but we still manage to field 2 premades and fight a wide range of disorganized pugs and very challenging premades.
What I came to the forums in general to prove was that cruisers can do damage. Check the video links in my sig to see what beams can do. I can post numbers and screenshots of damage logs all day long but simply watch those 2 videos to see what can be done with cruisers / beams. Especially the galaxy class infected video shows what simple team work and a decent build in a supposedly TRIBBLE ship can do. Sure I have 2 lobi consoles but honestly with lesser gear theres no reason at all that it would have taken more than another minute or 2 and still 6-7 minutes ahead of the optional timer.
Im not here to defend cryptics decisions. I havent agreed with them all but I personally feel the game is better shape now and is more fun than at any point since release. PvP is in a shambles for sure but we still manage to field 2 premades and fight a wide range of disorganized pugs and very challenging premades.
What I came to the forums in general to prove was that cruisers can do damage. Check the video links in my sig to see what beams can do. I can post numbers and screenshots of damage logs all day long but simply watch those 2 videos to see what can be done with cruisers / beams. Especially the galaxy class infected video shows what simple team work and a decent build in a supposedly TRIBBLE ship can do. Sure I have 2 lobi consoles but honestly with lesser gear theres no reason at all that it would have taken more than another minute or 2 and still 6-7 minutes ahead of the optional timer.
I'll give credit where credit is due. This game has a boat-load more content in it, more even than I've had the chance to see as I tend to find something that works for me and grind until I turn blue. (left overs from pre-CU SWG I suppose) So I would /agree that content wise, STO is at it's peak since launch.
As for PVP, even with the OP little ship, I just don't seen to have the draw anylonger. I tried Karrat for a few nights and the crusiers melted (in this case the klings) but I did have a nice 5 minute dog fight with a time-ship.
And I'm not blaming you in the least for your bug/lobi consoles/etc/any other P2W aspects that players might pick up. They're in the game, use them. However, I still can't get over the fact that STO is basicly nothing more than a P2W game anymore and most aspects of player progression are included mostly via the C-Store with balance completly thrown out the window, all for the sake of a quick lockbox key sale.
Like I said before, it's not that crusiers CAN'T do damage, they surely can do enough DPS to level still. But in the comparables, they're just junk now so why fly 1 at all? It actualy surprised me when the numbers parses' started to come thru just how much I gimped myself by flying that excel for so long, both DPS output and tanking. But, I guess I was always a die hard of sorts and kept trying to re/do/re-build my builds/ship/etc to compensate. The problem was/is, there is no compensating for poor MMO design nor balance that simply does not exist.
Just finished frapsing an all cruiser run of infected elite. All of us running nothing but mk x common gear (whites). We finished with 5:55 left on the optional. 3 engineers 1 sci 1 tac.
Ill post the video and log tomorrow once its all uploaded.
If we can do this in common level gear theres no reason cruisers should ever struggle with pve content. You cant blame this on p2w stuff as every ship we flew could have been bought with dill or was a mission reward. We never used any p2w consoles. The only blue quality item we used was the subspace field modulator as its a mission reward.
It all comes down to builds and tactics. If you have your captain and boff skills set up right and know the fights / know how to position your ship then gear is not terribly important. Gear makes you do more damage. But you can do plenty to get through pve content without it.
An average 'successful' pug usually finishes with 4-6mins left on the optional, and I am betting these players are not running all mk10 commons. Not to mention the escorts present in these pugs. There is always room for improvement.
I don't know if it was coincidence, but today I ran a pug infected with my regent/tac. 4 other cruisers showed up. A couple of Ody's, an Excel, and an Ambassador. We did it with the optional and time to spare. I saw a couple engineering fleets so not all of them were tac's.
Comments
O -- You know that I love cruisers, that I was playing a tac in cruiser from day one. I haven't spent a dime on zen in this game since I got my Odyssey Pack last year (I haven't been able to afford it). I get ALL my gear in game through the Dil to zen exchange and making EC to buy consoles and stuff. So P2W is NOT an issue here. In the video that Vex posted I was THE TOP DAMAGE/DPS in a refit Galaxy that I got with my VA token.
I. Know. How. To. Fly. A. Cruiser.
It is about how you pilot first, ship next, gear third.
That is all there is to it.
There really is no P2W, since I win without paying.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
It's the comparables, Vex. It's not that crusiers can't do 7K DPS in ISE, it's while they're doing 7K, I'm, and most probably you, are pushing 15.
Why take the crusier if 5 escorts can do the job BETTER via DPS and tanking? I tank tac-cubes with an escort (for comparables in PVE tanking) and I end up having to do it cause I steal agro from even the crusier with ALL the little points in threat due to that large DPS. Even in STFs. I'm able to run the 4th eng tanking console in the andy (and that extra Mk 12 purple makes a difference), the same way you are able to in the bug. While that crusier HAS to run a power console just to even think about doing 5K due to power contraints of the now NERFed to shreds 6 beams. All the time running 2 torps to lessen the power load without the turn rate to use them effectivly.
It's not that crusiers are worthless in PVE, it's that they are simply outclassed in PVE and everything they can do, my andy and your bug can do BETTER! Now, crusiers, without the P2L (pay-to-live) Oddy set up as nothing more than a heal-boat for some1 who could possibly kill something, is worthless in PVP, period.
So the 64 dollar question is......, why even have a crusier? That's the problem with this game and most of the people in this thread in a nutshell.
Cutter, (I think this is Cutter - remember I'm old and I forget things now lol), that is still P2W Classic. Some1 bought that zen with real money that traded you for dil either by credit card or paying the big bucks outright for the lifer (like me). Either way, Cryptic cashed the ck (or the credit card slip as the case may be).
Not Cutter -- Protector (West) see sig.
But what it shows is that you don't need to be the one to lay out the money. And that anyone with a little work can get anything in this game. Work, you know that little four-letter word that seems to be lost on some people (and no, not referring to you in particular).
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Cruisers have same access too many of the things escorts are using now days to increase DPS besides DHC, and can use abilities escorts don't have acess to so they can make up for this like 2x aux2bat and tech doffs, DEM3 with doff.
For beam DPS cruiser try this.
Use Regent or Fleet assault cruiser (just contact 1st Aquarius division to arrange to purchase)
7 beams at least Mk XI with any combination of CrtH and CrtD
1 Wide angle torp
(I have experimented with cutting beam to get omega 2piece bonus, I don't really need it due to power already high with aux2bat but can switch 1 beam out for it if you want)
2 rare male Romulan Tac boffs ( this is why I use regent over excelsior)
3 technician doffs of at least blue quality, 2 projectile torpedo doffs blue or better
Assimilated module, Zero Point energy conduit, and Tachyokinetic converter if you have it
Energy damage tac consoles at least Mk XI blue or better,
Lt Cmdr Tac- TT1, FAW2, APO1
Ensign Tac- TS1 (also train this boff in BO2 and APO1 and you can switch him around with the other tac boff as needed to switch FAW2 for BO2 whenever you want)
Cmdr Eng- EPTA1, Aux2Bat1, ET3, DEM3
Lt Eng, EPTS1, Aux2Bat1
Lt Sci- HE1, TSS2
Just keep using aux2bat to put bring all your abilites down to global cooldown after using them and keep spamming your tac ablities like crazy and have high power levels in everything while doing it.
Ok, now I remember, sorry. It was in the memory banks but just buried somewhere in the fog that is the late 50s. lol
Edit; and thanks for not including me in that work clause. I ground jedi way back in SWG when jedi were something to behold. (before patch 9 for the old vets here) Now, that was a grind.
...and with the introduction of carriers, Federation cruisers don't even have the advantage of being more durable or better at support or whatnot.
Check out my 10k dps galaxy thread. I dont run any consoles to up my power. emergency to weapons 1 2 or 3 work just fine. You cant fly a cruiser the same way you could at release. Ive adapted my build to what works right now and I grind through stfs like nothing in my cruiser. I barely fly my escorts anymore. On my fed I fly my galaxy even in pvp and get kills with beam overloads with the romulan gear. On my kdf I bounce between the fleet tor'kaht, a fleet bop, the jemmy carrier and my bug. But mostly the cruiser or carrier. I love beams and the power of faw. If used right in pve its horrifying. In pvp yes I mostly fly escorts but from time to time I run the galaxy just to mess with people.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
you don't need to run 2 torps to help with power drain, you need proper spec and EPTW or aux2bat, and can get a little more help from the borg console and MACO shields, no other weapon power consoles are needed, this should be enough to let you fire 7 or 8 beams. Base Crit chance should be over 12%, and severity over 75% with the romulan boffs and 3 crit consoles so even beams will hit really hard provided you power them with eng ablities.
Can we be besties? The simple fact is you cant load a cruiser up with nothing but heals and expect to dps. Have more than 1 set of boffs to be more versatile. Theres no reason a decently geared (blue quality) cruiser with any class flying it cant do 5-7k dps. A team working together where everyone is pulling that much dps should have zero issue getting all the optionals in any stf including hive elite.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Well, lol, this is a quandry. l get out of crusiers and you get into them. lol
/agree with you on FaW, even in it's post-NERF state. I still run FaW1 in the andy with 2 pol ACCX3 Mk 12 beams in the back to take care of danubes and other trash, errrr...., pets. I find it works just as well in PVE also.
Haven't been back long enough to get all the new little fancy gear as yet. Rom rep, tier 3 I think at this time. I'm still running MACO shields altho Cypher told me today to take O out of my storage fleet into his guild and back to get the new tier 5 shields. I still have 1 toon in with Cypher, Ras, and the rest but all my other toons are in a storage fleet, now tier 1.7 atm.
Its real fun when you can get a team of 10k+ DPS tac captain cruisers all doing FAW spam
my regent/fleet AC build I posted last page or your galaxy build would be great for that or using that gal build on a Fleet AC too.
Also I think I should have mentioned doffs too, they are all probably using tanking doffs like shield distribution or hazard systems doffs when they should be using ones to increase DPS like technicians for aux2bat, or damage control to keep EPTW and EPTS up, or projectile doffs or DEM doffs. And I bet most of them are using all Saurians and Human boffs instead of rare male romulan tacs, lol.
You never going to match my andy for power. I start every shot at 125+ and only drop to about 90 something after every volly. Even with the power console BO3 will take you down to 50 to 60 with only 6 beams not to even mention if you slot FaW3. That's with an EFF crew with the exception of 2 humans.
And with all the EPTW you start gimping your heals/buffs which are also needed in a crusier. I still slot other EPs, namely EPtS and doffs for 1 application, even tho they/it has fallen out of favor with some. But then again, I don't have to make the power v tanking choice. I fly an escort with 5 HCs up front.
my cruiser runs 2 emergency to shields, hazard emitters, transfer shields, engineering team and aux to sif... and thats my dps build.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Yes exactly. I run 2 damage control engineers 2 energy weapon doffs and a dem doff. I have enough defense for anything pve can throw at me with just my boffs. My doffs all directly effect my damage.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
2x Shield distro, 2x Beam Doffs and Dem doff.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
That sounds alot like my old excel build - the transfer. That old build is probably still up on the TOS forums way back in the thread list.
If using EPTW you should be using damage control doffs to keep it and epts up with full uptime. If using BO3 the DEM doff is needed unless you are eng and you will be fine. I use 2 x Aux2bat 1 myself and have nor problem powering 7 beams mostly using FAW2. sometimes they might drop below 80 but not often, and I also mix in weapon batteries with the battery doff to help if needed.
I have and Andy and a Bug also, and while I do more burst damage and dps with these ships, I can get more total encounter damage with my cruisers sometimes. I can tank tac cubes in my Bug or Andy if I get aggro, but sometimes this means evading around and being off target while my cruiser is able to stay on target the whole time when it has aggro. Also sometimes my escort might die in HSE once or twice while my cruiser rarely does, so that is more lost DPS there from an escort.
Wait don't you mean 1 x EPTW and 1x EPTS if you said you were running damage control doffs in another post. Just wondering how you are powering your weapons.
Also wondering if you have tried aux2bat build instead, since I usually use that to do dps on cruiser but was considering going the EPTW route with damage control doffs and beam doffs to see if that worked better or not.
ive been running shield distribution in their place on my galaxy.
And yes ive tried the aux to bat build. I honestly found it was less tanky and my damage only went up by 500.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
Your right, a cruiser can and does heal better than an escort but that is basicly the only thing remaining in the plus catagory for a crusier atm. That may change if Geko has his way and takes out the 4 armor/resists consoles out of the escorts and gives "light" armor in return for another plus to a crusier. But right now, the entire game of STO is based upon DPS, PVE and PVP, so that's what really got me out of my excel and I flew that for a long, long time and liked it.
I find no problem at all with tanking in the escort. It tanks better than the excel ever thought about and has the "get-the-flock-outta-dodge-buttons for PVP. Something the excel could never quite master, even with a macro on my G-510 board of a engine batt and 1 sec later, evasive. I tank tac cubes via the andy by flying into them with CSV a blazing, turn around at the cube and fly out with FaW running all the while staying withing the 10 range. The timers are just perfect for that. Running out of range of the cutting beam will give you a chance to recoup a bit for the next pass. I can basicly keep total agro with the andy the entire time allowing the others to get up close and do as much damage as they can. Another large + of the escort is TT. The crusiers I flew never seemed to have enough tac slots to allow for more than 1 and that was even a gimp to DPS right there, even with the excel's 3 slots, while an escort has no where near that problem.
I fully anticipate that DPS will go up when most get their hands on the new APs at tier 5 Star Base. Double ACC and double damage I believe might even get me out of my ACCX3 for even PVP allowing for futher burst/crit damage out of an escort.
And then of course, I doubt we've seen the last of the DPS coming out of the C-Store and lockboxes. It just sells to well. So, more DPS a coming to further widen the gap, I would imagine.
Aux to Batt does not work well with a Galaxy, due to the latter's excessive focus on Engineering.
And you would be correct. STO used to be known on the PVP forums as "Crusiers Online" at one time. (escorts then were the typical glass cannons) Then the NERFs came. Next was Science, then the NERFs came to most all the Sci powers. All the while the C-Store/lockboxes was putting out escorts with more DPS, more eng slots, more of just about everything except for Boff healing slots.
The game was always pretty DPS dependant. (ever try Cry. Ent. way back when with a boat-load of cruisers?) But now, DPS is simply king with escorts being able to do pretty much everything better with the 1 exception of healing.
It appears that the cycle will be begin again with Geko looking to NERF the 4 armor slot escorts when really all that is needed is some additive passive armor for crusiers, some of the beam NERFs reversed, and a re-look at sci powers and reversal of the many NERFs that went on there.
Cryptic has a habit of putting something out that is very OP, not listening to feedback when it's on test, and then NERFing whatever system they worked on in the 1st place, to shreds in their final solution(s). And of course, selling power without any regard for game balance.
Im not here to defend cryptics decisions. I havent agreed with them all but I personally feel the game is better shape now and is more fun than at any point since release. PvP is in a shambles for sure but we still manage to field 2 premades and fight a wide range of disorganized pugs and very challenging premades.
What I came to the forums in general to prove was that cruisers can do damage. Check the video links in my sig to see what beams can do. I can post numbers and screenshots of damage logs all day long but simply watch those 2 videos to see what can be done with cruisers / beams. Especially the galaxy class infected video shows what simple team work and a decent build in a supposedly TRIBBLE ship can do. Sure I have 2 lobi consoles but honestly with lesser gear theres no reason at all that it would have taken more than another minute or 2 and still 6-7 minutes ahead of the optional timer.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
I'll give credit where credit is due. This game has a boat-load more content in it, more even than I've had the chance to see as I tend to find something that works for me and grind until I turn blue. (left overs from pre-CU SWG I suppose) So I would /agree that content wise, STO is at it's peak since launch.
As for PVP, even with the OP little ship, I just don't seen to have the draw anylonger. I tried Karrat for a few nights and the crusiers melted (in this case the klings) but I did have a nice 5 minute dog fight with a time-ship.
And I'm not blaming you in the least for your bug/lobi consoles/etc/any other P2W aspects that players might pick up. They're in the game, use them. However, I still can't get over the fact that STO is basicly nothing more than a P2W game anymore and most aspects of player progression are included mostly via the C-Store with balance completly thrown out the window, all for the sake of a quick lockbox key sale.
Like I said before, it's not that crusiers CAN'T do damage, they surely can do enough DPS to level still. But in the comparables, they're just junk now so why fly 1 at all? It actualy surprised me when the numbers parses' started to come thru just how much I gimped myself by flying that excel for so long, both DPS output and tanking. But, I guess I was always a die hard of sorts and kept trying to re/do/re-build my builds/ship/etc to compensate. The problem was/is, there is no compensating for poor MMO design nor balance that simply does not exist.
Ill post the video and log tomorrow once its all uploaded.
If we can do this in common level gear theres no reason cruisers should ever struggle with pve content. You cant blame this on p2w stuff as every ship we flew could have been bought with dill or was a mission reward. We never used any p2w consoles. The only blue quality item we used was the subspace field modulator as its a mission reward.
It all comes down to builds and tactics. If you have your captain and boff skills set up right and know the fights / know how to position your ship then gear is not terribly important. Gear makes you do more damage. But you can do plenty to get through pve content without it.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
I don't know if it was coincidence, but today I ran a pug infected with my regent/tac. 4 other cruisers showed up. A couple of Ody's, an Excel, and an Ambassador. We did it with the optional and time to spare. I saw a couple engineering fleets so not all of them were tac's.
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/205090/cuttersui.jpg
http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/205090/stormysui.jpg
http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/205090/westsui.jpg
http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/205090/cruiser_elite_log.png
[SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be