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Energy Siphon/Power Drain Test Results
gradstudent1
Member Posts: 633 Arc User
Part I. Introduction:
First, thanks to those who have contributed to this test and the broader discussion.
The following video provides a visual record of tests on power drain dynamics done on 21.2.2013. The participants of the tests were as follows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPnzvhnT08
Participants (thanks to you both!!!)
Naz: Eng in Steamrunner, x6 points in power insulators.
@sharpe- Kharfi Carrier, x8 adv siphon drones, x6 points in flow caps
Sargon: observer
A few annotations to audio commentary:
At some points you can hear us talking--mostly Sargon--though I do cut out at points. I need to make a few emendations to my audio commentary:
We were all under the impression that 17 power level was the cap on siphons, but after further research, I was unable to confirm this number. Instead, what I found is a pre-Season 7 post from Borticus indicating that siphon drones were going to be weakened in their power (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=404791). In particular, he made the following statements, which included no hard numbers.
1) Instead of immediately diminishing the target's power by a large %, the drain of each individual Siphon Drone will slowly ramp up to full capacity.
2) This takes 5 seconds to happen, at which point the Drone will have 1 tick of drain at full capacity, and then shut down for 1.5 seconds before starting again. When the drain turns back on, it is again draining at a low rate and has to ramp back up.
3) This "full capacity" drain is still a % of the player's current power pool. Since the % of drain is low while the player has a large pool, and high while the player has a diminished pool, it causes the overall drain to follow a shallow bell curve in effective drain value, during the first cycle. Subsequent cycles will allow targets to partially regenerate their subsystem power at the edges of that curve, enabling more opportunities to activate abilities that may counter the drains.
4) The amount of benefit this drain receives from the owners' Flow Capacitors skill has been reduced, allowing Power Insulators to be more reliably effective. Although the effects of resisting each tick of a Drone's power drain are hard to see, the "floor" threshold of the overall drain is different for players with a high resistance.
I think it would be very helpful for us, Borticus, to know precisely what these percentages are, so that we can actually determine whether the siphons are working according to design--a point Hilbert already made.
Part II: Data, Test Conditions, and Results
Test 1
Conditions: no flow cap consoles, siphon drones
Video Time: :00-3:15
Results: Siphons seemed to cap at 17 power for all 4 subsystems. For example, weapons went from 125-17 and then fluctuated based on the number of drones, Naz?s ability to escape them with speed, etc.
Test 2:
Conditions: Add flow cap consoles (Mark XII rare)
Video Time: 3:16-5:21
Results: Siphons brought substystems to 12 but more often to around 15-17. For example, weapons went from 125 to a max of 12.
Test 3:
Conditions: Add Aceton Assimilators (AA)
Video Time: 5:23-7:08
Results: Siphons and AA brought subsystems to around 13, which suggests that at these lower power levels, AA was unable to give a discernible edge in draining power.
Test 4:
Conditions: Add Energy Siphons 2-3 with max Aux
Video Time: 7:09-9:05
Results: Drained to a max of 12
Test 5:
Conditions: Add Plasmonic Leach and Polaron Weapons. Toward the end we test the effects of Hazard Emitters.
Video Time: 9:06-The end.
Results: Only under these conditions was @sharpe- able to bring Naz?s power on all 4 subsystems to 0. Notice that this was only possible when the siphon drones were able to catch Naz, which supports the statements by contributors to the earlier thread, that speed is one defense against siphon drones. Hazard Emitters do seem to effect the power drain.
We should have run a 6th test with Tyken's Rift. This was my oversight.
Part III. Analysis
In one of his responses to this thread, Havam stated that this thread was ?barking up the wrong tree? by focusing on the siphon drones. Havam is correct that siphon drones are not the root of the problem. (Note that in the video both Naz and I were surprised--around Test 2 I think--that the siphons were not more effective) On their own, without augmentation, the recent fix has made them somewhat less problematic. Even still, it remains a question for me whether a single carrier pet should be able to drain subsystems from 125-17 (see Test 1). However, to modify Havam?s arboreal metaphor just a bit, siphon drones are a branch--and a very large one--attached to a more problematic tree, one that we should be barking up: power drain in general and in particular how it can be pushed to remarkable extremes on the KDF side.
So was this original thread barking up the wrong tree? No. However, Havam is correct that, in its original formulation, the thread was overly fixated on one branch of the tree (siphon drones). With that said, even if siphons are not the major problem in the whole realm of power drain, they remain the single most powerful source of power drain, which means that any solution must involve them. Adjusting them, then, may ultimately be part of a broader solution to some of the problems our test has highlighted.
So in the end, I hope that the visual demonstration above will help spark a conversation about some of the problems related to power drain. Keep in mind that other very common subsystem debuff skills were left out of this test: Viral Matrix, Target Subsystems, all Phaser Weapons, etc. In addition, while the test shows that siphon drones are easily outrun, this controlled environment does not account for the many movement debuffs, stuns, etc. that make it much easier for drones to catch a person. In short, siphon drones are a significant contributor to a very large problem: power drain.
I conclude with one suggestion to the developers: Don?t just place a cap on siphon drones and leach. This is to fixate, as I originally did, on one branch, not the larger tree. Rather, place a cap on power drain in general. A fundamental question needs to be asked: Should a single player be able to bring one ship down to 0 power in all 4 subsystems? This is especially a problem since the ability to do this belongs to one faction only (KDF). What if multiple power drain ships and esp. carriers are running on that team? The recent fix to siphon drones and leach console was a move in the right direction, but I fear that it was trimming the weeds more than an actually dealing with the infestation.
First, thanks to those who have contributed to this test and the broader discussion.
The following video provides a visual record of tests on power drain dynamics done on 21.2.2013. The participants of the tests were as follows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPnzvhnT08
Participants (thanks to you both!!!)
Naz: Eng in Steamrunner, x6 points in power insulators.
@sharpe- Kharfi Carrier, x8 adv siphon drones, x6 points in flow caps
Sargon: observer
A few annotations to audio commentary:
At some points you can hear us talking--mostly Sargon--though I do cut out at points. I need to make a few emendations to my audio commentary:
We were all under the impression that 17 power level was the cap on siphons, but after further research, I was unable to confirm this number. Instead, what I found is a pre-Season 7 post from Borticus indicating that siphon drones were going to be weakened in their power (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=404791). In particular, he made the following statements, which included no hard numbers.
1) Instead of immediately diminishing the target's power by a large %, the drain of each individual Siphon Drone will slowly ramp up to full capacity.
2) This takes 5 seconds to happen, at which point the Drone will have 1 tick of drain at full capacity, and then shut down for 1.5 seconds before starting again. When the drain turns back on, it is again draining at a low rate and has to ramp back up.
3) This "full capacity" drain is still a % of the player's current power pool. Since the % of drain is low while the player has a large pool, and high while the player has a diminished pool, it causes the overall drain to follow a shallow bell curve in effective drain value, during the first cycle. Subsequent cycles will allow targets to partially regenerate their subsystem power at the edges of that curve, enabling more opportunities to activate abilities that may counter the drains.
4) The amount of benefit this drain receives from the owners' Flow Capacitors skill has been reduced, allowing Power Insulators to be more reliably effective. Although the effects of resisting each tick of a Drone's power drain are hard to see, the "floor" threshold of the overall drain is different for players with a high resistance.
I think it would be very helpful for us, Borticus, to know precisely what these percentages are, so that we can actually determine whether the siphons are working according to design--a point Hilbert already made.
Part II: Data, Test Conditions, and Results
Test 1
Conditions: no flow cap consoles, siphon drones
Video Time: :00-3:15
Results: Siphons seemed to cap at 17 power for all 4 subsystems. For example, weapons went from 125-17 and then fluctuated based on the number of drones, Naz?s ability to escape them with speed, etc.
Test 2:
Conditions: Add flow cap consoles (Mark XII rare)
Video Time: 3:16-5:21
Results: Siphons brought substystems to 12 but more often to around 15-17. For example, weapons went from 125 to a max of 12.
Test 3:
Conditions: Add Aceton Assimilators (AA)
Video Time: 5:23-7:08
Results: Siphons and AA brought subsystems to around 13, which suggests that at these lower power levels, AA was unable to give a discernible edge in draining power.
Test 4:
Conditions: Add Energy Siphons 2-3 with max Aux
Video Time: 7:09-9:05
Results: Drained to a max of 12
Test 5:
Conditions: Add Plasmonic Leach and Polaron Weapons. Toward the end we test the effects of Hazard Emitters.
Video Time: 9:06-The end.
Results: Only under these conditions was @sharpe- able to bring Naz?s power on all 4 subsystems to 0. Notice that this was only possible when the siphon drones were able to catch Naz, which supports the statements by contributors to the earlier thread, that speed is one defense against siphon drones. Hazard Emitters do seem to effect the power drain.
We should have run a 6th test with Tyken's Rift. This was my oversight.
Part III. Analysis
In one of his responses to this thread, Havam stated that this thread was ?barking up the wrong tree? by focusing on the siphon drones. Havam is correct that siphon drones are not the root of the problem. (Note that in the video both Naz and I were surprised--around Test 2 I think--that the siphons were not more effective) On their own, without augmentation, the recent fix has made them somewhat less problematic. Even still, it remains a question for me whether a single carrier pet should be able to drain subsystems from 125-17 (see Test 1). However, to modify Havam?s arboreal metaphor just a bit, siphon drones are a branch--and a very large one--attached to a more problematic tree, one that we should be barking up: power drain in general and in particular how it can be pushed to remarkable extremes on the KDF side.
So was this original thread barking up the wrong tree? No. However, Havam is correct that, in its original formulation, the thread was overly fixated on one branch of the tree (siphon drones). With that said, even if siphons are not the major problem in the whole realm of power drain, they remain the single most powerful source of power drain, which means that any solution must involve them. Adjusting them, then, may ultimately be part of a broader solution to some of the problems our test has highlighted.
So in the end, I hope that the visual demonstration above will help spark a conversation about some of the problems related to power drain. Keep in mind that other very common subsystem debuff skills were left out of this test: Viral Matrix, Target Subsystems, all Phaser Weapons, etc. In addition, while the test shows that siphon drones are easily outrun, this controlled environment does not account for the many movement debuffs, stuns, etc. that make it much easier for drones to catch a person. In short, siphon drones are a significant contributor to a very large problem: power drain.
I conclude with one suggestion to the developers: Don?t just place a cap on siphon drones and leach. This is to fixate, as I originally did, on one branch, not the larger tree. Rather, place a cap on power drain in general. A fundamental question needs to be asked: Should a single player be able to bring one ship down to 0 power in all 4 subsystems? This is especially a problem since the ability to do this belongs to one faction only (KDF). What if multiple power drain ships and esp. carriers are running on that team? The recent fix to siphon drones and leach console was a move in the right direction, but I fear that it was trimming the weeds more than an actually dealing with the infestation.
Post edited by gradstudent1 on
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Comments
To have a complete test, a feddie drain build *queue the lols* using polaron, tykens and ES will quickly show you how laughable drain builds are. Even on full teams. MOst disappears due to the MACO proc, and other means of generating bonus power.
On a side note: i m not sure that NE tooltip actually reflects its anti-drain capabilites. Just a hunch.
Combine the former with leech, AA, and Siphon drones and some ships can actually create a power drain build. Mind that each console has counters. Sorry escort pilots, time to use more torps and mines. Still there is a limited option of ship classes that such a team can field to maximize it's drain.
The question remains if pets should be such powerful debuff platforms, and I still refuse to talk about siphons, without talking about Danoob as debuff platforms as well. One that is availabe to all Fed ship types Sci, Scort or Carrier alike.
You ask how much drain should a KDF team be able to put out, well how much movement debuffs should a fed team put out. Not only do a I see much more fed danoob teams, then KDF siphon teams. The opportunity cost for kdf drain teams is higher then for tractor and chroniton spamming teams.
Nerfing powerdrain builds will just be another nerf to sci ships, and ensure more escorts online, which i have gotten really tired of since the release of the smurf.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Also, I'm not sure a Fed can't do this using Tykens, ES, VM, Polarons, etc. An all polaron/phased polaron team w/a 2-3 sci ships spamming Tykens w/Doffs, ES and VM has the potential to be just as effective based on my running into that before. The main difference being the pets are basically passive abilities given the rate they can be churned out and they have some movement (very slow @ that) vs stationary AoE Tykens.
I don't like pets usurping what I feel should be Boff active abilities, but still this is no worse to me than some other options both sides have in that regard.
Is it a problem, yes. Is it high on my priority list? no.
That said nice video and effort by all. For future tests I'd recommend just stating skill point totals such as 212 in flow cap, 99 in power insulators, EPS etc. Also, I know I'm being anal, establish a baseline of each skill individual then have a matrix of different combinations. I'm gonna guess that it was the siphon pets and polaron proc combo that dropped the target to zero.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
This sums up what I feel.
I think power insulators should dictate the amount of power you keep no matter what. With 6 in insulators and the borg deflector you are at 110. Thats a minimum of around 30 for each subsystem.
as you can see even when sitting still the siphons alone can't do this either.
To compare the drain team, to the fed standard you need to distribute additional phase offline procs, tractor beams, and chroniton procs among the team. Your movement will reach zero, you defense be negative, and your ET not able to keep up with all the offline procs.
IN both cases you go boom. I don't care if semi visbile pets or lack of energy makes me a sitting duck. In both cases it is unfun, requires no skill, and has nothing to do with PvP. Outrunning pets belongs in SB24, not in pvp arenas.
edit* Yes please lets nerf sci skills more, our escorts go boom by them. Sci resist are to high as is, they don't need a buff. Pets need a big nerf across the board, and high level sci powers need to become a lot better at what they are doing.
If you want to discuss energy drain that needs fixing, i suggest we start looking at beams vs cannons.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Thanks for your ongoing contributions to this conversation, Havam. A few responses:
1) I agree that Danubes have to be part of this conversation. But that wasn't the point of this test. But if anyone wants to do such a test with Danubes, I will gladly jump into the conversation.
2) I am not sure this is an attempt to nerf science, Havam. Your comment assumes that power drain is the realm of science alone, when in fact, hangar pets can be found on escorts too, as you well know. And if we have shown anything it is that the siphons--which can be slotted by any ship with a hangar (not limited to science ships)--are the most powerful drain power in the game. So in my view this is not an attack on science but rather on power drain, which transcends science.
Thanks for hte suggestions. Sorry this was my first real attempt to pull off a test=) I will try to keep your advice in mind next time.
No problem, and no need for apology it was meant as helpful feedback, and again nice work by all.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
But the KDF doesn't have various ships of every class that can equip pets. If pets are a problem in a team setting, this is no minor issue.
Siphons are the most powerful drain, just as much as danoobs are the most powerful tractor beam. They dish out free TB2 at a rate that no ship could ever do. It is no accident that both are sci powers. Everytime Systems gives away an uberversion of a sci power to any Federation ship and class combo possible, we are nerfing sci.
So to reiterate one more time. Siphons drain is fine. The design flaw lies with pets as debuff platforms, nothing special about siphons that singles them out.
Slavers are better at draining anyways. Who cares if you go boom with 1,2 or 3 subsytmems not disabled. They are much harder to outrun as well. Maybe polaron procs need another pass, to bring them in line with tets, and plasma?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Are you sure the new Jem escorts can use these pets? One of the complaints I've seen is the lack of KDF pets that can be used by them. Also, there's far more Fed ship options for using pets than on the KDF side which are slow for KDF ships.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I don't know about the Jem Heavy Escort Carrier. I don't actually have one. Can anyone confirm whether this ship can slot siphons? If not, then I need to redact my response to Havam above.
I don't entirely follow this comment. You have an issue with pets as debuff platforms but not with siphons, which are pets with a particularly powerful debuff? Or perhaps you just mean that you have an issue with the whole category and that we should not single out siphons as any more of a problem?
Thats the one.
Last i checked heavy bug couldn't equip siphons, No clue if that was patched. even if, the point remains that natively feds have more ships with hangars then the kdf across the board.
By having this discussion about "siphons" we achieve three things, none of which I'm fond of:
1) pets as debuff platforms doesn't get addressed, just one pet nerfed.
2) we talk about a kdf exclusive, ignoring the blatantly obvious FED counter example, pushing balance even further towards feds.
3) we are devaluing sci powers. The calls for higher sci resists are already in. We need to move in the opposite direction. How can drain builds be effective without pets, is what we should have in mind. Not how nerfing siphons, will make SPs least favorite KDF premade more vulnerable.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Let me respond to each of your points:
1) I disagree. YOU in particular have made sure that pets as debuff DOES get addressed.=) For that I am grateful.
2) The Fed counter example has never been ignored. Again, you have brought it up on multiple occasions and I have agreed with you that they are a problem.
3) Note that the title of this thread is "Energy Siphon/Power Drain," not just "Energy Siphon." And the proper question is not just, "How can drain builds be effecitve without pets," but rather "How can drain builds be effective and fair without pets?"
To reitierate a point, in the conclusion to this post, I say the following:
I conclude with one suggestion to the developers: Don?t just place a cap on siphon drones and leach. This is to fixate, as I originally did, on one branch, not the larger tree. Rather, place a cap on power drain in general. A fundamental question needs to be asked: Should a single player be able to bring one ship down to 0 power in all 4 subsystems? This is especially a problem since the ability to do this belongs to one faction only (KDF). What if multiple power drain ships and esp. carriers are running on that team? The recent fix to siphon drones and leach console was a move in the right direction, but I fear that it was trimming the weeds more than an actually dealing with the infestation.
This paragraph should indiciate to you that I am not only interested in fixing siphons but the whole power drain dynamic. I am really glad we are having this conversation, but please recognize that it has gone far beyond just a discussion of siphons. THanks to you (and I mean this genuinely:)), the conversation is much more broadly about (1) pets as debuff and (2) power drain in general.
Also let's hope that when this imaginary patch goes live, pets across the board receive a big nerf in the debuff department. I somehow doubt this, though. Siphon nerf might or might not come, but pet spam balancing...... i doubt it. That would require serious work from systems. I m afraid that nerfing siphons is to quick n easy a patch to appease the forums.
I still can't help to feel that there are soo many more pressing balance issues on the list. Should a coordinated team be able to disable your movement, yes. Should a coordinated team be able to drain your power, yes. We all know that 10 or 0 in all four subystems makes little difference, except for the illusion of being in control of your ship.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Agreed on all points but one. Whether on Fed (Danubes) or KDF (siphons), disabling a player on a semi-permanent basis doesn't really require a "coordinated team." We were able to recreate these effects with a single player. This is part of the problem. If more great skill were invovled to actually deploy these problematic items, then we might not be discussing them as often.
You missed the "should" in there. I have no problem with 5xTB2 nailing you to the virtual space concrete.
I agree, Pets doing this for free without opportunity cost, is Gecko at its finest. And many more impolite words come to my mind to describe this situation that I can't post here since its an english language forum.
BTW i would be more then happy, to test a 1v1 Vesta with phaser procs, VM, 2x tractor beams, chroniton torp/mines, and danubes. Let's see if this disabels a player long enough to go boom.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
How long did it actually take to shut a player down to those power levels in a battle situation?
Great work carrying out these tests
Thanks for clarifying the "should."
I will place some bets on this proposed test:)
Now, should the FEDs be able to do the same thing? Maybe. From what I hear, the feds have the advanced runabouts, which combined with BOFF abilities seem to be able to shut down a ship in a similar way. Is it similar enough to count as the fed shut down? Maybe. Personally, I would prefer a different but equal approach where the KDF can shut someone down one way, and the FEDs can shut someone down another way, but the end result is that the target is shut down.
Again, personally, I don't think its a bad thing if one ship can shut down another. I mean, everyone says its fine that an escort can outshoot everyting else, and that a cruiser can outtank everything else, what is wrong with a sci ship out draining everything else as long as it can't do the first two as well.
Nouveau riche LTS member
and its behavior is very odd one person it acts fine more then one using it is when it gets a bit screwy!
i would like you guys to run some tests with this carrier supported by 4 plasmatic leech ships and watch as what ever the resistance to drain is your power is zeroed out.
Unless it's broken again plas leech drain is capped more players shooting you w/leech won't make a difference in terms of drain, gain is another story.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i believe that these drones are certainly still bugged. there should be no way that these drones alone should be able to siphon that much power. it seems to be across the board, regardless of initial power level. that's totally absurd.
granted, outrunning siphon drones is an absolute defense, but there are many abilities that can render this point moot. all you need to do is open up a tiny window for these little suckers to do their work and you have essentially nullified one target. even if your systems are not completely zero'd out, you're pretty much dead in the water.
i'm pretty sure the engines subsystem power needs to be looked at too. i think there needs to be a higher correlation between engine power and speed. only when your engines power is completely zero'd out are you stuck in the water. with naz's engine power in the teens, he was still very much able to dip and dodge with no problems.
regardless, the entire test was a lot of fun. my hats off to sargon for pulling it all together and naz for being such a great target and providing us with the video. till next time, gents.
Never gonna happen, not so long as the Runabout player shuttles have in-built TB's... ones that work peachy-keen on anything they grab. However, the runabouts TB power needs to be a player-used activated ability and on a 2 minute (IE: Unleveled up) cooldown. that cannot be circumvented by launching more runabouts or by powers such as Tech DOff'd Aux to Bat.
On the topic of Power Drains, they're mostly exceptionally weak care of hazard emitters. Leech, Siphon, I believe Target: Subsystems, and Tyken's Rift are all cleared by it, and mostly weak enough to be ignored from a single player.
Tyken's, especially, as anyone who's spec'd 9 into insulators will not suffer more that -7 to all subsystems, even if a series of Rifts are activated around the target through the Gravimetric DOff. This was tested on CaptainHorizon's Steamrunner using a Recon Science Vessel with 4 Mk XI Rare Flow Capacitors, 9 ranks into Flow Capacitors, 125 Aux, Mk XI Jem'Hadar Deflector, and Tyken's Rift 3. He lost 7 points off the top of all subsystems and not an iota more while sitting out the full duration of the rift in the center of it.
when your opponent's shields drop for lack of shield power, their defense goes to negatives for lack of engine power, and their weapons and heals go to **** for lack of weapons/auxiliary power, you really don't need all that much in the way of damage or tanking, methinks
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And thanks to you, Sharpe!
I don't think any pets should have any debuffs.
But to the question of being able to drain a target dry, sure? Also long as it requires multiple activated Boff skills w/counters along the way. Which there seems to be, if anything Sci Boff abilities need boosts nearly across the board. Seriously, in that video w/minimum engine power settings the only way the siphons caught him was when he stopped moving/chose to slow down. Now you need a movement debuff (like you would w/Tykens), and there are counters to movement debuffs. So, it's a matter of individual and team builds at that point. While I don't think pets should do it, maxed out Tykens w/Doffs should be as effective as those pets are before resists, say 50% w/resists. If not Tykens a ES varient w/o the gain since AoE has its own issues.
But, I'm one who thinks a fully buffed alpha against debuffed target should blow that target into itty bitty pieces in short order. I think a couple of high end w/high skillpoint and ship build investments Sci abilities should be just as potentionally as deadly as an alpha strike. Just like Cruisers should have plasma build options to burn people who don't have counters, ie H.E.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
The karfi it seem lackluster in build
It needs TsS3 to drain 60 shield power.
and It also needs cannons for polaron proc
pm me I will show you some real drain
Thx you so much or making this video this show the cap I?ve been noticing lately
I think all drain pets have cap now, and assimilator to. Maybe even ES ill have to test this tonight.
It seems only pol proc and leach can drop to 0.
I?ve played my Karfi for over a yr and it in the weakest state its ever been in with all these new ships.
I hear people complain, but just don?t give a answer
I think they should change leech entirely
to a disable subsystem and grant bonus to player
So one random subsystem would fail for them and + for you.
Then give it to feds in lockbox
Buff ET to grant 10 sec immune to drains
Buff ST to grant jam sensor against all pets, so anyone running ST pet can?t see them. Like a AMS against pets. So danubes cant see you
There are so many better build out there than drain builds. We need to stop nerf'ing, this game is based on diversity its what make it fun the complete randomness of pvp. We need more counters. Not nerf bats, if this happen then it will be VM+ GW + EWP all day long, we need revolutions not regression.
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate
oh god...that plus adv. danubes; i can already hear the howling, and it's making my poor, sensitive wolfie ears bleed
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
lol you totally took it the wrong way its the oppesit. I did a quick edit it to make more sense
Buff ST to grant jam sensor against all pets, so anyone running ST pet can?t see them. Like a AMS against pets. So danubes cant see you
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate