They won't do what you ask, they will only do what they believe will keep players in STO long enough for the next ship, for the next "Season" for the next big money maker. That's what they're about now.
You guys keep screaming for more ways to make fleet marks. Sure, they may do it. But it'll come at a price. Most likely, upping the amount of marks required for the projects so that the percentage of marks gained still balances out their long term projections of how long it takes to get to Tier 5.
So getting 15 marks in Fleet Alerts now, and increasing them to 30 (Just estimating, using a 2x modifier here), and suddenly the projects cost twice as much in fleet marks because "After reviewing the amount of fleet marks that are potentially available to the player base, we feel that the projects require an increase in the amount of marks that are needed to complete" or some other corporate blindsiding speak. Allows them to appease the player base, shut them up, while at the same time, not jeopardizing their projections and spreadsheets.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I'm almost certainly right on this one.
Just remember this one simple fact...
Every change, movement, or revolution, started with just one person!
PWE/Cryptic Where are you? Why are you NOT listening to your Customers?
You know I have been here since open beta, and I can tell you the amount of extreme nerfs to missions and rewards in game have steadily increased over the years.
Especially after dilithium became a in game currency, the nerfs and limits on so many parts of the game went into effect month after month for a while there.
Not only that the bugs keep piling up as though it means nothing to the devs yet they continue to ignore the outcry from this last terrible nerf.
The irony is I shouldn't care one way or another but I do for all the reasons that I have seen this game slow fall into this terrible restrictive grind.
Seeing as I just joined a fleet finally four days before this patch went out, I was finally trying to get a grip on the tier 3 starbase(fleet)/embasy I was in with two of my characters and how things works.
As I was already drained on doing my omega/romulan rep, I realized that I had just added a far more draining grind on top of what I had been working in my character up to that point.
While the foundry mission to get FM was mention I never even got a chance to even give it a whirl. Never releasing how easy I could of gotten some FM's for my fleet or my characters, but even cryptic can see I never even ran one foundry mission had not in ages because I was already at the point that what I was doing wasn't fun anymore.
I would just log on just to do what felt like a job to keep my characters going from day to day but not to actually have any enjoyment out of it.
Yet even though I never used it personally, I already knew from trying to get get FM on the few times i tried before the valentine day patch that it was a royal pain, and one I was most hesitant to put a lot of time in but as I keep looking I realized just how hard it was to get fleet marks.
But you know after the changes over the years I have to say its clear that the devs be it their choice or the demands higher up in PWE, I can not continue to support nor give time to STO anymore as it stands.
I love star trek, I would hate to see this game die, but you know even if the game dies there will always be another star trek game, be it 10 or 20 years from now.
But you know like a lot things that are wrong in this world today, it would be corporations not listening to the actual customers that keep them in business, sadly they are more worried about short term profits then long term stable flowing profits.
That I feel is a major problem in many industries today most have forgotten to look or care long term, especially in the gaming industry.
Completely ignoring the Starbase angle to boot. Not that it's actually a surprise.
Hmm ... let's see ... :
The problem is more complicated than most players comprehend. In order to maintain the sanctity of the Foundry tool-set
Too bad she wrote this at the end .
And to think that I thought that I might have gone overboard when I stated that part of this mess was the zealots who wanted a "pure Foundry" .
"Sanctity of the Foundry" my a#$ ... .
My statement can be made towards every single aspect of the game and how Cryptic handles both it and the player base. I used the Fleet Marks as an example because that's what this thread has been about in the past 200+ pages. Feel free to insert any other issue with them instead of fleet marks.
Lets take the KDF for example. How long have you waited to get a full KDF faction fleshed out? How long has it been since the last KDF ship was released in the C-Store? How long has it been since the KDF meant anything other than PVPing against Feds? Take those answers and put them up against the larger stink that's been created for the KDF vs this particular issue and you have your answer.
Forgive my "arrogance" but I know how a corporate structure works and I am not oblivious to the fact that Dan comes from Zynga, a company that works the exact same way that Cryptic has turned into. That PWE is a child company of Perfect World co. a Chinese company that's made it's money creating games in the exact same fashion that STO is going.
It's not difficult to see what Cryptic wants you to do when it comes to STO. Keep you logged in and grinding, so that you'll buy the next big thing and use it to grind some more, and pay for other things along the way to make the grind feel less grindy.
If Cryptic wants your opinion on how they want their game run, they'll ask for it. As of yet, they have not asked for your opinions on how they want the game managed, designed, or showcased.
And to answer your question, this is the same account I've had for...well, years. For some strange reason when I registered to these forums, it put a 2 behind the name, even though my PWE account doesn't. I dunno.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
While people have stated it's more than just fleet marks, I thought I'd provide some analytics on just how many fleet marks are required, bare minimum (if you do any 500 XP projects for the starbase or embassy, you'll need to increase your fleet mark costs accordingly) to max out a starbase and embassy.
Starbase = 886,440+ Fleet Marks
To get maximum 250,000 XP in military, engineering, and science: ~630,900 Fleet Marks (per track: 10 projects @ 1000 XP for 180 FM, 15 projects @ 1000 XP for 300 FM, 25 projects @ 1000 XP for 600 FM, 50 projects @ 1000 XP for 900 FM, 150 projects @ 1000 XP for 960 FM)
To do all the various upgrade projects: 255,540+ Fleet Marks
Embassy = ~146,380 Fleet Marks
To get maximum 59,500 XP in diplomacy and recruitment: ~71,400 Fleet Marks (per track: 8 projects @ 1200 XP for 420 FM, 14 projects @ 1200 XP for 630 FM, 28 projects @ 1200 XP for 840 FM)
To do all the various upgrade projects: 74,980 Fleet Marks
Total Fleet Holdings = 1,032,820+ Fleet Marks
Now let's say you have 25 active players. That's approximately 41,300 fleet marks per person. If you wanted these two holdings to take 2 full years to complete, that would mean each player would need to earn 400 a week in their 3 times a week Cryptic has planned for them. If you could make 1 fleet mark on average per minute (which many posters will probably consider rather liberal) that's 6 hours, 40 minutes per week just grinding fleet marks -- or in one of the three play sessions per week a whopping 2.5 hours!
So please tell me, if this is what's required to do the first two fleet holdings (more on the way!) over a period of two full years and each of your 25 active players would need to grind a fleet mark a minute for 2.5 hours three times a week to do it, doesn't that sound a bit excessive? This doesn't say anything about the tens of millions of dilithium or billions of energy credits to throw into the pile. I have no problem with a long-term goal and I'm also okay with it being easier for large groups than small groups (as they are building the same thing, the bucket with more people filling it will fill faster) but it seems Cryptic missed the mark on fleet mark costs and/or availability.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
My statement can be made towards every single aspect of the game and how Cryptic handles both it and the player base. I used the Fleet Marks as an example because that's what this thread has been about in the past 200+ pages. Feel free to insert any other issue with them instead of fleet marks.
Take those answers and put them up against the larger stink that's been created for the KDF vs this particular issue and you have your answer.
You forget, that this thread is apparently the #3 thread of all time in terms of both viewing and posts. As for "larger stinks" as you put it, that doesn't leave many candidates. You also seem to forget (or at least fail to mention) that a multitude of tiny threads doesn't really constitute a "stink". A multitude of smaller threads in my eyes at least, is more of a murmur, an undercurrent which has been lurking around this forum and this community for far too long. One massive, focused thread (such as this one) tends to grab the attention of other far more readily.
Forgive my "arrogance" but I know how a corporate structure works *SNIP*
You have to admit, it was a pretty arrogant statement. Rather like how that entire passage I just snipped is rather arrogant.
It's not difficult to see what Cryptic wants you to do when it comes to STO. Keep you logged in and grinding, so that you'll buy the next big thing and use it to grind some more, and pay for other things along the way to make the grind feel less grindy.
You're not wrong there. But the thing is, cryptic failed in that regard as they have gotten the balance of grind wrong. An MMORPG needs some grind, sure. But if it is to survive then it must not feel like a grind. It must feel like fun! Hell, I even defined it.
If Cryptic wants your opinion on how they want their game run, they'll ask for it. As of yet, they have not asked for your opinions on how they want the game managed, designed, or showcased.
Again you forget, that the powers that be HAVE stated that they listen to us. It's been perceived as a bare faced lie on too many occasions to count, but they have said it. In fact, didn't Mr Stahl mention it fairly recently?
And to answer your question, this is the same account I've had for...well, years. For some strange reason when I registered to these forums, it put a 2 behind the name, even though my PWE account doesn't. I dunno.
The reason I asked, was that another user with "Vegeta" in their handle was taking up a very similar position as you have done. It set my alarm bells ringing
This is my observation and I'm pretty sure I will be nuked from high orbit here.
All Cryptic did was seal up an exploit we all knew was a licence to print dilly and marks that should not have been there. People on here are moaning about the removal of something that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Ironically I only found out about the IOR exploit today myself so i did spend the last few hours using it before they shut the tap off. So I'm not innocent myself. I never use the foundry and no one mentioned the exploit until it was due to be removed.
I understand people want to get their fleets up and running and the IOR dill and marks go a long way to help. However do people really want to spend hours everyday just doing the IOR misson, then doing the same with the next toon, and the next and the next. Dont know about you but that bore me stupid. You call doing stfs and dailies missons 'grind!' Doing the IOR 20 times a day across multiple toons drive me totally bonkers with grind. I'd have a heck of a lot of dill but my brain would have melted a long time before. A whole game to explore and people prefer to just sit there rince repeating one misson.
However I'm a casual gamer. Yes I play the game a lot but I go looking for missons, noy clicky one thing.
But thats just me as they say.
I am tired of being told i was wrong to use a resource that the devs put in the game, Sure maybe they regret putting it in game, but don't blame me for you putting it in.
I am tired of being told i was wrong to use a resource that the devs put in the game, Sure maybe they regret putting it in game, but don't blame me for you putting it in.
Face it, mister, you're a dirty rotten cheat and exploiter for using it! You probably even used "clicker" missions that were part of the game for more than a year (a mission that was also given the fleet mark switcheroo).
FILTHY EXPLOITERS THE LOT OF YOU! :mad::mad::mad:
How MMO companies reach for the stars: "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre."
Mankind never ceases to amaze me. Perhaps Q was right in episode 1 of TNG. You look at what Saloth Sar accomplished as leader of his country and he had supporters every step of the way. He silenced dissident voices. Pretended to listen to his populace and put forth mandatory edicts with cheers and rejoicing from his defense force. Eventually he changed his name to Politique Potentielle though most people shortened it and just called him Pol Pot. After he killed 3 million of the 8 million people in his country there arose enough outcry for change that it finally came. To the day he left, there were staunch supporters of his every dictate. Now as much as I hate what Gecko has done to the game and his ideas about the necessity of destroying fun that hes as bad as pol pot but the point remains that just because people support bad policies does not make the policies good.
It amuses me that the Cryptic Defense Force keeps telling players to leave and go play other games. Like everything Cryptic does or leave. We cannot abide that your voices be heard and we want you to go away. They are quite vocal on the public pro cryptic channels. Yesterday the game was not well attended or played though some of it may be due to the removal of Q and party poppers.
Moving along. A few of the better comments worth paying attention to that were not deleted spell out our situation here. One guy said that he didnt mind grind but he didnt like insurmountable grind. A short brief comment but worth paying attention to. Others from the CDF say, be positive and give us options. Some say this is a firestorm created. Others point out that this fire has been building for awhile.
For years, Ive been saying, "1. Stop with the nerfs. 2. Reward players better." The Vday dictates was a massacre of both my positive themes."
My positions are not new. Lets look at the history.
Season 2. New featured episodes were promised every month. 10 FEs a year and 40 new Cryptic designed episodes per year. Great cheers wonderful, I applauded this promise.
Season 3. Genesis. I warned that for the foundry to succeed that Cryptic needed to allow players to build rewards into their missions and I also warned that authors would build in exploits. I warned that Cryptic would use the foundry as an excuse to kill new content from Cryptic. Featured episodes virtually halted and Cryptic leaned on the foundry for content.
Season 4. Ground Combat Shoote Mode - Big Yawn
Season 5. A call to arms - free to play mode - duty officers - Duty officers are great - I applaud "most" everything about them except the pay to win package ones. I opposed going f2p because I felt it would polarize the community between high value customers that spend a lot and the free to play guys that showed up and contributed very little. Cryptic ignored my every prediction. Here we are, and Cryptic keeps removing features so that they can "sell" them and get revenues from the minority of high value customers. Maybe 2 million people have signed up to look at the game for a few weeks but its a fiction to pretend that those guys are all playing. Fleets purge membership roles daily of dead players that moved over to other games. F2P guys come and go and do so with lightning speed, and removal of fun and features from the game rarely encourages them to stay long. The game has become a churn fest with new customers recruited, juiced, spit out and churned for the next new guys. The game has become a travelling circus with the devs trying to milk revenues all they can before they leave town and try to do it again with the next wave of short term customers. Promises of attracting and keeping 1 million players who play daily have been abrogated.
Season 6. Starbases.
Season 7. New Romulas - Personal Repuation
The anger and finger pointing and rage is legit. What people are pointing fingers at is that each new season outside of 4 which was a yawner is that new change steps on old things they liked. Season 3 and the foundry killed season 2 and promises of featured episodes. Sucky 7 and personal reputation built in competition so that players would advance reputation and not give to starbases.
In the fleets I associate with, I tell players daily, advance your character, raise it up. I want you enjoying your character and playing more than I want us to have a good starbase.
The Vday massacre stepped on so many advances on so many levels. Without rewards or wrappers there goes season 3. People will not spend time doing things without promise of reward. If you put season 3 up against watching an old episode of trek, its easier to turn on the tv and watch Captain Kirk fight the Gorn. People did foundry for rewards and those were pretty much removed. After season 3 hit, Cryptic just dropped all promises of 40 new episodes a year. People tolerated this because we got way more than 40 foundry missions a year. No wrappers killed this and seasons 2 and seasons 3 and their positive changes died.
Season 4 was boring.
Season 5 has become a grub fest where Cryptic seems to figure out how to force players to "support" the game and what they can take away and then make them pay for on a daily basis. I liked the idea of paying my money for my subscription and Cryptic using that money to improve the game. They used it to improve Neverwinter and now they do not seem to know how to reward players for being here outside of taking things away and then charging them to get them back. Its disgusting to watch really.
Season 6 and starbase progression has been killed 2 fold by reputation and competition for resources and players and then by Cryptic deciding to charge for resources by selling zen cards to be exchanged for dilithium and now god only knows how they plan to force players to get marks. Fleets have seen major slowdowns in fleet progression and all Cryptic ever says about it is that its working as intended. The carrot the mule cant get is working as intended. I dont like cryptic telling us they hold the carrots and we are the mules.
Season 7 has been a disaster on so many levels. Sure theres more fluff. The embassy is nice. But it seems like its been a major excuse to downgrade the game, take stuff away, create competition for resources and put more grind in the game. People who did buy zen cards from stores to support the game have found the value of their purchase decline by 40-50% and I think as more access to dilithium keeps constantly being removed from the game and as the player base getting it continues to decline that the value of zen will fall further.
The game keeps going backwards. Gecko has as serious aversion to fun and seems to enjoy pulling it from the game. Hes like the soup TRIBBLE on Seinfeild. No fun for you.
Here is what players want. They want to improve their characters they want to progress their stabases. So many people live lives as the poets say of quiet desperation. Our employers underreward our contributions to their profits. Our children do not respect our efforts to provide food, clothing, and shelter and building blocks of happiness. We dont want to hear its only $25 fot his new shiny. Thats what children demand of us every day.
I think the complaints are valid. I think Cryptic would do well to start listening to them. And they are not new because some like me who have been around the game world warned of them and brought up these issues long before they shoved it down our throats. Everyone who has ever played a mud knows that new content authors want to attract players and reward the ones that play it. Players want rewards or they wont play the content. Cryptic is very naive in thinking people will play foundry missions for fun because its more fun than picking up a Harry Potter book and sitting down to a good read. Of course people played it for the wrappers and rewards. The easier the reward was to get the better.
People want fun. They already have jobs they grind where they are underpaid, underrewarded, underappreciated, and underrespected. People get paycuts at work and are told to do more with less. They dont want their ships nerfed in a game they invest free time.
People want to progress and advance and improve. They want to accomplish. This is why they play mmos instead of watching tv.
I support log in bonuses. I supported the clickie. I support the wheel of wow in webkinz. I support the races in winter wonderland. I support party poppers and gifts. When these things happen the player base grows. 5 minutes, find your little Q in the box and win a prize.
Cryptic cant stand that people want to build good ships so they nerf them, and then demand purchase of a respec token. Or Cryptic comes out with something to buy so other rich people can have them and the hard working sap who earned his special ride gets to watch as his build becomes mundane. Cryptic slows down progression and tells people they need to do more with less. People over and over come to these boards and proclaim they want fun and not a second job and Cryptic will not listen to them.
These arent gripes. They are suggestions and strong ones. Every mission needs to give rewards. Every one. Every Patrol mission, Every diplomacy mission, Every exploration mission, Every featured episode, Every regular episode, Every Story Mission, Every event mission, Every trophy mission, Every location mission, should all get rewards and I mean good ones that are thank yous for time spent here. And there should be log in bonuses and really good reasons for people just to show up and play.
Starbases should be allowed to progress. Reputation should be allowed to progress. Duty officers missions should progress faster.
Cryptic seems to concentrate on all the problems in their game with a desire to remove exploits. Their time would better be served adding rewards to the sytem and giving people a reason to show up and play. Exploits arent the end of the world and its just sad Cryptic is so stingy in handing out their own rewards that people feel they have to reach for them if they want to accomplish anything in the game. Cryptic could easily kill exploits by offering rewards of their own that compete with them. Instead they nerf and whine and complain about players progressing too fast, advancing in unintended ways, and having the fun they dont think should be allowed to them.
The Cryptic PR guy cant open his mouth anymore without suggesting the game would be better if it was less fun.
Cryptic has lost its way. They want work, grind, and nerfs. Players want fun. It will be interesting to watch and see how this divergence of opinion plays out.
Not many businesses ever win when the cutomers get shoved out the door. Lets see if Cryptic can make this sneer at your customer business model work in the future. I dont see it working often but maybe they can pull it off.
You know Cryptics efforts to add Fleet Marks are a clear sign they are attempting to quench the current posting. I thank them for making such a quick and radical attempt to fix this. I approve, and I think until we see them in any other forms of mission we should be satisfied with this for now.
It's not as if they are doing nothing. Although one thing I will say Is as per my previous post, the balance of gameplay as a whole should be the larger consideration especially with the radical PVE changes affecting PVP.
We've got 2,400+ posts complaining they don't give us enough information about changes going in, and then we get this? :rolleyes:
LOL, if these forums had a rep system I would create other accounts just to +1 you.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Doesn't change the need for new methods of PvE players gaining fleet marks beyond the same tired old missions (make no mistake, I am glad that PvPers get FMs by PvPing).
You know Cryptics efforts to add Fleet Marks are a clear sign they are attempting to quench the current posting. I thank them for making such a quick and radical attempt to fix this. I approve, and I think until we see them in any other forms of mission we should be satisfied with this for now.
It's not as if they are doing nothing. Although one thing I will say Is as per my previous post, the balance of gameplay as a whole should be the larger consideration especially with the radical PVE changes affecting PVP.
This is true. Before we were told they were looking at adding things during the May update, but then we have these generous amounts of Fleet Marks being added tomorrow. This is more than trhowing us a bone.
I'm not willing to spend money yet, but this is a step in the right direction.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Thank you Dan Stahl for the upcoming fleet mark additions showing on the Tribble patch... It is now worth more doing the fleet missions than I was getting from the foundry wrapper.
We will be bringing the Tribble server down for maintenance to apply a new update.
ST.25.20130128a.24
General:
Updated the description of the Phaser Quad Cannons; it no longer incorrectly describes Phaser procs as decreasing the target's weapon power.
This is a text change only.
Activating EV suits no longer cause the character's head to disappear.
Resolved an issue that prevented some players from assigning Bridge Officers to their ships.
Fleet Marks:
No-Win Scenario:
Increased the rewards for rounds 4, 5 and 6 from 5/8/13 to 10/18/28 respectively.
This increases Fleet Mark rewards by 30.
The following events now grant an additional 30 Fleet Marks.
Colony Invasion
Starbase Blockade
Starbase Fleet Defense
Starbase Incursion
Starbase Alert now grants an extra 10 Fleet Marks each time an enemy wave is defeated for the first 3 waves.
Azure Nebula rescue now grants twice as many Fleet Marks.
Defera invasion missions:
Easy missions now grant 13 Fleet Marks.
Medium missions now grant 25 Fleet Marks.
Hard missions now grant 60 Fleet Marks.
Nukara missions:
Easy missions now grant 13 Fleet Marks.
Medium missions now grant 25 Fleet Marks.
Hard missions now grant 60 Fleet Marks.
Mine Trap now grants an extra 30 Fleet Marks upon completion.
Added 50 Fleet Marks to each of the PVP daily wrappers:
Raze Enemy Headquarters (Daily)
Raze Enemy Secret Headquarters (Lt. General - Daily)
Dominate the Heroes of the Enemy (Daily)
Dominate the Leaders of the Enemy (Lt. General - Daily)
Claiming Enemy Reserves (Daily)
Claiming Enemy Emergency Reserves (Lt. General - Daily)
Reclaim the Neutral Zone (Daily)
Restore the Neutral Zone (Vice Admiral - Daily)
Into the Fray (Daily); To the Front Lines (Vice Admiral - Daily)
Pacify Enemy Heroes (Daily)
Pacify Enemy Leaders (Vice Admiral - Daily)
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
If this increase in FMs would have come in with the losses of the last patch, this thread would only exist in the JJ timeline. The mighty Klingon faction would have been happy with their shiny new OP cruiser, but still the neglected half Federation faction would be left with empty hands...
I only have one account. I've never made more than one account in any game.
There he is!
It's quite a coincidence that two people with the same, rather unusual word in both of their forum handles and that they both take up the same position on the issues discussed in this thread.
Hell, I suppose stranger things have happened!
I wonder how much of this was planned before this thread and how much changed, if anything, because of it.
The cynic in me would point to Stahl's intransigent refusal to talk about the changes, and the delayed Tribble patch as evidence that stuff was fiddled with last minute.
Comments
lol when I actually get in game maybe I will change my ship number to like 9992311 and name to Disenchanted :eek:
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Just remember this one simple fact...
Every change, movement, or revolution, started with just one person!
PWE/Cryptic Where are you? Why are you NOT listening to your Customers?
PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM, Bring back the FUN!
Zeus
Especially after dilithium became a in game currency, the nerfs and limits on so many parts of the game went into effect month after month for a while there.
Not only that the bugs keep piling up as though it means nothing to the devs yet they continue to ignore the outcry from this last terrible nerf.
The irony is I shouldn't care one way or another but I do for all the reasons that I have seen this game slow fall into this terrible restrictive grind.
Seeing as I just joined a fleet finally four days before this patch went out, I was finally trying to get a grip on the tier 3 starbase(fleet)/embasy I was in with two of my characters and how things works.
As I was already drained on doing my omega/romulan rep, I realized that I had just added a far more draining grind on top of what I had been working in my character up to that point.
While the foundry mission to get FM was mention I never even got a chance to even give it a whirl. Never releasing how easy I could of gotten some FM's for my fleet or my characters, but even cryptic can see I never even ran one foundry mission had not in ages because I was already at the point that what I was doing wasn't fun anymore.
I would just log on just to do what felt like a job to keep my characters going from day to day but not to actually have any enjoyment out of it.
Yet even though I never used it personally, I already knew from trying to get get FM on the few times i tried before the valentine day patch that it was a royal pain, and one I was most hesitant to put a lot of time in but as I keep looking I realized just how hard it was to get fleet marks.
But you know after the changes over the years I have to say its clear that the devs be it their choice or the demands higher up in PWE, I can not continue to support nor give time to STO anymore as it stands.
I love star trek, I would hate to see this game die, but you know even if the game dies there will always be another star trek game, be it 10 or 20 years from now.
But you know like a lot things that are wrong in this world today, it would be corporations not listening to the actual customers that keep them in business, sadly they are more worried about short term profits then long term stable flowing profits.
That I feel is a major problem in many industries today most have forgotten to look or care long term, especially in the gaming industry.
Hmm ... let's see ... :
Too bad she wrote this at the end .
And to think that I thought that I might have gone overboard when I stated that part of this mess was the zealots who wanted a "pure Foundry" .
"Sanctity of the Foundry" my a#$ ... .
Lets take the KDF for example. How long have you waited to get a full KDF faction fleshed out? How long has it been since the last KDF ship was released in the C-Store? How long has it been since the KDF meant anything other than PVPing against Feds? Take those answers and put them up against the larger stink that's been created for the KDF vs this particular issue and you have your answer.
That is just one example.
Forgive my "arrogance" but I know how a corporate structure works and I am not oblivious to the fact that Dan comes from Zynga, a company that works the exact same way that Cryptic has turned into. That PWE is a child company of Perfect World co. a Chinese company that's made it's money creating games in the exact same fashion that STO is going.
It's not difficult to see what Cryptic wants you to do when it comes to STO. Keep you logged in and grinding, so that you'll buy the next big thing and use it to grind some more, and pay for other things along the way to make the grind feel less grindy.
If Cryptic wants your opinion on how they want their game run, they'll ask for it. As of yet, they have not asked for your opinions on how they want the game managed, designed, or showcased.
And to answer your question, this is the same account I've had for...well, years. For some strange reason when I registered to these forums, it put a 2 behind the name, even though my PWE account doesn't. I dunno.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Starbase = 886,440+ Fleet Marks
To get maximum 250,000 XP in military, engineering, and science: ~630,900 Fleet Marks
(per track: 10 projects @ 1000 XP for 180 FM, 15 projects @ 1000 XP for 300 FM, 25 projects @ 1000 XP for 600 FM, 50 projects @ 1000 XP for 900 FM, 150 projects @ 1000 XP for 960 FM)
To do all the various upgrade projects: 255,540+ Fleet Marks
Embassy = ~146,380 Fleet Marks
To get maximum 59,500 XP in diplomacy and recruitment: ~71,400 Fleet Marks
(per track: 8 projects @ 1200 XP for 420 FM, 14 projects @ 1200 XP for 630 FM, 28 projects @ 1200 XP for 840 FM)
To do all the various upgrade projects: 74,980 Fleet Marks
Total Fleet Holdings = 1,032,820+ Fleet Marks
Now let's say you have 25 active players. That's approximately 41,300 fleet marks per person. If you wanted these two holdings to take 2 full years to complete, that would mean each player would need to earn 400 a week in their 3 times a week Cryptic has planned for them. If you could make 1 fleet mark on average per minute (which many posters will probably consider rather liberal) that's 6 hours, 40 minutes per week just grinding fleet marks -- or in one of the three play sessions per week a whopping 2.5 hours!
So please tell me, if this is what's required to do the first two fleet holdings (more on the way!) over a period of two full years and each of your 25 active players would need to grind a fleet mark a minute for 2.5 hours three times a week to do it, doesn't that sound a bit excessive? This doesn't say anything about the tens of millions of dilithium or billions of energy credits to throw into the pile. I have no problem with a long-term goal and I'm also okay with it being easier for large groups than small groups (as they are building the same thing, the bucket with more people filling it will fill faster) but it seems Cryptic missed the mark on fleet mark costs and/or availability.
Some resources: Starbase project costs (missing some of the T5 projects), Embassy project costs (completed)
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
No offense, but try reading the thread before making such uninformed coments. It has always been about more than fleet marks.
Refer to the post number quoted below if you want to know more.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
You forget, that this thread is apparently the #3 thread of all time in terms of both viewing and posts. As for "larger stinks" as you put it, that doesn't leave many candidates. You also seem to forget (or at least fail to mention) that a multitude of tiny threads doesn't really constitute a "stink". A multitude of smaller threads in my eyes at least, is more of a murmur, an undercurrent which has been lurking around this forum and this community for far too long. One massive, focused thread (such as this one) tends to grab the attention of other far more readily.
You have to admit, it was a pretty arrogant statement. Rather like how that entire passage I just snipped is rather arrogant.
You're not wrong there. But the thing is, cryptic failed in that regard as they have gotten the balance of grind wrong. An MMORPG needs some grind, sure. But if it is to survive then it must not feel like a grind. It must feel like fun! Hell, I even defined it.
Again you forget, that the powers that be HAVE stated that they listen to us. It's been perceived as a bare faced lie on too many occasions to count, but they have said it. In fact, didn't Mr Stahl mention it fairly recently?
The reason I asked, was that another user with "Vegeta" in their handle was taking up a very similar position as you have done. It set my alarm bells ringing
I am tired of being told i was wrong to use a resource that the devs put in the game, Sure maybe they regret putting it in game, but don't blame me for you putting it in.
galacticguards.enjin.com/
Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8207291&postcount=1
(UFP) Ragnar
Face it, mister, you're a dirty rotten cheat and exploiter for using it! You probably even used "clicker" missions that were part of the game for more than a year (a mission that was also given the fleet mark switcheroo).
FILTHY EXPLOITERS THE LOT OF YOU! :mad::mad::mad:
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
Mankind never ceases to amaze me. Perhaps Q was right in episode 1 of TNG. You look at what Saloth Sar accomplished as leader of his country and he had supporters every step of the way. He silenced dissident voices. Pretended to listen to his populace and put forth mandatory edicts with cheers and rejoicing from his defense force. Eventually he changed his name to Politique Potentielle though most people shortened it and just called him Pol Pot. After he killed 3 million of the 8 million people in his country there arose enough outcry for change that it finally came. To the day he left, there were staunch supporters of his every dictate. Now as much as I hate what Gecko has done to the game and his ideas about the necessity of destroying fun that hes as bad as pol pot but the point remains that just because people support bad policies does not make the policies good.
It amuses me that the Cryptic Defense Force keeps telling players to leave and go play other games. Like everything Cryptic does or leave. We cannot abide that your voices be heard and we want you to go away. They are quite vocal on the public pro cryptic channels. Yesterday the game was not well attended or played though some of it may be due to the removal of Q and party poppers.
Moving along. A few of the better comments worth paying attention to that were not deleted spell out our situation here. One guy said that he didnt mind grind but he didnt like insurmountable grind. A short brief comment but worth paying attention to. Others from the CDF say, be positive and give us options. Some say this is a firestorm created. Others point out that this fire has been building for awhile.
For years, Ive been saying, "1. Stop with the nerfs. 2. Reward players better." The Vday dictates was a massacre of both my positive themes."
My positions are not new. Lets look at the history.
Season 2. New featured episodes were promised every month. 10 FEs a year and 40 new Cryptic designed episodes per year. Great cheers wonderful, I applauded this promise.
Season 3. Genesis. I warned that for the foundry to succeed that Cryptic needed to allow players to build rewards into their missions and I also warned that authors would build in exploits. I warned that Cryptic would use the foundry as an excuse to kill new content from Cryptic. Featured episodes virtually halted and Cryptic leaned on the foundry for content.
Season 4. Ground Combat Shoote Mode - Big Yawn
Season 5. A call to arms - free to play mode - duty officers - Duty officers are great - I applaud "most" everything about them except the pay to win package ones. I opposed going f2p because I felt it would polarize the community between high value customers that spend a lot and the free to play guys that showed up and contributed very little. Cryptic ignored my every prediction. Here we are, and Cryptic keeps removing features so that they can "sell" them and get revenues from the minority of high value customers. Maybe 2 million people have signed up to look at the game for a few weeks but its a fiction to pretend that those guys are all playing. Fleets purge membership roles daily of dead players that moved over to other games. F2P guys come and go and do so with lightning speed, and removal of fun and features from the game rarely encourages them to stay long. The game has become a churn fest with new customers recruited, juiced, spit out and churned for the next new guys. The game has become a travelling circus with the devs trying to milk revenues all they can before they leave town and try to do it again with the next wave of short term customers. Promises of attracting and keeping 1 million players who play daily have been abrogated.
Season 6. Starbases.
Season 7. New Romulas - Personal Repuation
The anger and finger pointing and rage is legit. What people are pointing fingers at is that each new season outside of 4 which was a yawner is that new change steps on old things they liked. Season 3 and the foundry killed season 2 and promises of featured episodes. Sucky 7 and personal reputation built in competition so that players would advance reputation and not give to starbases.
In the fleets I associate with, I tell players daily, advance your character, raise it up. I want you enjoying your character and playing more than I want us to have a good starbase.
The Vday massacre stepped on so many advances on so many levels. Without rewards or wrappers there goes season 3. People will not spend time doing things without promise of reward. If you put season 3 up against watching an old episode of trek, its easier to turn on the tv and watch Captain Kirk fight the Gorn. People did foundry for rewards and those were pretty much removed. After season 3 hit, Cryptic just dropped all promises of 40 new episodes a year. People tolerated this because we got way more than 40 foundry missions a year. No wrappers killed this and seasons 2 and seasons 3 and their positive changes died.
Season 4 was boring.
Season 5 has become a grub fest where Cryptic seems to figure out how to force players to "support" the game and what they can take away and then make them pay for on a daily basis. I liked the idea of paying my money for my subscription and Cryptic using that money to improve the game. They used it to improve Neverwinter and now they do not seem to know how to reward players for being here outside of taking things away and then charging them to get them back. Its disgusting to watch really.
Season 6 and starbase progression has been killed 2 fold by reputation and competition for resources and players and then by Cryptic deciding to charge for resources by selling zen cards to be exchanged for dilithium and now god only knows how they plan to force players to get marks. Fleets have seen major slowdowns in fleet progression and all Cryptic ever says about it is that its working as intended. The carrot the mule cant get is working as intended. I dont like cryptic telling us they hold the carrots and we are the mules.
Season 7 has been a disaster on so many levels. Sure theres more fluff. The embassy is nice. But it seems like its been a major excuse to downgrade the game, take stuff away, create competition for resources and put more grind in the game. People who did buy zen cards from stores to support the game have found the value of their purchase decline by 40-50% and I think as more access to dilithium keeps constantly being removed from the game and as the player base getting it continues to decline that the value of zen will fall further.
The game keeps going backwards. Gecko has as serious aversion to fun and seems to enjoy pulling it from the game. Hes like the soup TRIBBLE on Seinfeild. No fun for you.
Here is what players want. They want to improve their characters they want to progress their stabases. So many people live lives as the poets say of quiet desperation. Our employers underreward our contributions to their profits. Our children do not respect our efforts to provide food, clothing, and shelter and building blocks of happiness. We dont want to hear its only $25 fot his new shiny. Thats what children demand of us every day.
I think the complaints are valid. I think Cryptic would do well to start listening to them. And they are not new because some like me who have been around the game world warned of them and brought up these issues long before they shoved it down our throats. Everyone who has ever played a mud knows that new content authors want to attract players and reward the ones that play it. Players want rewards or they wont play the content. Cryptic is very naive in thinking people will play foundry missions for fun because its more fun than picking up a Harry Potter book and sitting down to a good read. Of course people played it for the wrappers and rewards. The easier the reward was to get the better.
People want fun. They already have jobs they grind where they are underpaid, underrewarded, underappreciated, and underrespected. People get paycuts at work and are told to do more with less. They dont want their ships nerfed in a game they invest free time.
People want to progress and advance and improve. They want to accomplish. This is why they play mmos instead of watching tv.
I support log in bonuses. I supported the clickie. I support the wheel of wow in webkinz. I support the races in winter wonderland. I support party poppers and gifts. When these things happen the player base grows. 5 minutes, find your little Q in the box and win a prize.
Cryptic cant stand that people want to build good ships so they nerf them, and then demand purchase of a respec token. Or Cryptic comes out with something to buy so other rich people can have them and the hard working sap who earned his special ride gets to watch as his build becomes mundane. Cryptic slows down progression and tells people they need to do more with less. People over and over come to these boards and proclaim they want fun and not a second job and Cryptic will not listen to them.
These arent gripes. They are suggestions and strong ones. Every mission needs to give rewards. Every one. Every Patrol mission, Every diplomacy mission, Every exploration mission, Every featured episode, Every regular episode, Every Story Mission, Every event mission, Every trophy mission, Every location mission, should all get rewards and I mean good ones that are thank yous for time spent here. And there should be log in bonuses and really good reasons for people just to show up and play.
Starbases should be allowed to progress. Reputation should be allowed to progress. Duty officers missions should progress faster.
Cryptic seems to concentrate on all the problems in their game with a desire to remove exploits. Their time would better be served adding rewards to the sytem and giving people a reason to show up and play. Exploits arent the end of the world and its just sad Cryptic is so stingy in handing out their own rewards that people feel they have to reach for them if they want to accomplish anything in the game. Cryptic could easily kill exploits by offering rewards of their own that compete with them. Instead they nerf and whine and complain about players progressing too fast, advancing in unintended ways, and having the fun they dont think should be allowed to them.
The Cryptic PR guy cant open his mouth anymore without suggesting the game would be better if it was less fun.
Cryptic has lost its way. They want work, grind, and nerfs. Players want fun. It will be interesting to watch and see how this divergence of opinion plays out.
Not many businesses ever win when the cutomers get shoved out the door. Lets see if Cryptic can make this sneer at your customer business model work in the future. I dont see it working often but maybe they can pull it off.
That should please some.
Just been updated (BOFFS! Highlighted)
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
marks added to Defera, Nukara, and marks increased for fleet events.
Not that hard to read, it isn't long at all.
We've got 2,400+ posts complaining they don't give us enough information about changes going in, and then we get this? :rolleyes:
lol
.......
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
It's not as if they are doing nothing. Although one thing I will say Is as per my previous post, the balance of gameplay as a whole should be the larger consideration especially with the radical PVE changes affecting PVP.
LOL, if these forums had a rep system I would create other accounts just to +1 you.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
It's a start.
Doesn't change the need for new methods of PvE players gaining fleet marks beyond the same tired old missions (make no mistake, I am glad that PvPers get FMs by PvPing).
But it's a start.
This is true. Before we were told they were looking at adding things during the May update, but then we have these generous amounts of Fleet Marks being added tomorrow. This is more than trhowing us a bone.
I'm not willing to spend money yet, but this is a step in the right direction.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I only have one account. I've never made more than one account in any game.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=560651
We will be bringing the Tribble server down for maintenance to apply a new update.
ST.25.20130128a.24
General:
Updated the description of the Phaser Quad Cannons; it no longer incorrectly describes Phaser procs as decreasing the target's weapon power.
This is a text change only.
Activating EV suits no longer cause the character's head to disappear.
Resolved an issue that prevented some players from assigning Bridge Officers to their ships.
Fleet Marks:
No-Win Scenario:
Increased the rewards for rounds 4, 5 and 6 from 5/8/13 to 10/18/28 respectively.
This increases Fleet Mark rewards by 30.
The following events now grant an additional 30 Fleet Marks.
Colony Invasion
Starbase Blockade
Starbase Fleet Defense
Starbase Incursion
Starbase Alert now grants an extra 10 Fleet Marks each time an enemy wave is defeated for the first 3 waves.
Azure Nebula rescue now grants twice as many Fleet Marks.
Defera invasion missions:
Easy missions now grant 13 Fleet Marks.
Medium missions now grant 25 Fleet Marks.
Hard missions now grant 60 Fleet Marks.
Nukara missions:
Easy missions now grant 13 Fleet Marks.
Medium missions now grant 25 Fleet Marks.
Hard missions now grant 60 Fleet Marks.
Mine Trap now grants an extra 30 Fleet Marks upon completion.
Added 50 Fleet Marks to each of the PVP daily wrappers:
Raze Enemy Headquarters (Daily)
Raze Enemy Secret Headquarters (Lt. General - Daily)
Dominate the Heroes of the Enemy (Daily)
Dominate the Leaders of the Enemy (Lt. General - Daily)
Claiming Enemy Reserves (Daily)
Claiming Enemy Emergency Reserves (Lt. General - Daily)
Reclaim the Neutral Zone (Daily)
Restore the Neutral Zone (Vice Admiral - Daily)
Into the Fray (Daily); To the Front Lines (Vice Admiral - Daily)
Pacify Enemy Heroes (Daily)
Pacify Enemy Leaders (Vice Admiral - Daily)
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
I for one would still like to be able to play different missions to earn FMs and not grind the same things over and over.
And still so many good points brought up in this thread that need to be addressed. One thing at a time I suppose.
There he is!
It's quite a coincidence that two people with the same, rather unusual word in both of their forum handles and that they both take up the same position on the issues discussed in this thread.
Hell, I suppose stranger things have happened!
For the Nth time, this flare up was not just about fleet marks.
While this is a start, there is still much damage to be put right. Cryptic credibility anyone?
The cynic in me would point to Stahl's intransigent refusal to talk about the changes, and the delayed Tribble patch as evidence that stuff was fiddled with last minute.