Have you thought... that perhaps not everyone can log in every day?
This is why the idea of a weekly cap is so awesome.
That's why the Lifetime Sub essentially includes one; if you don't log in for a day or more, you automatically refine extra for the days you haven't logged in, up to a week.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
That's why the Lifetime Sub essentially includes one; if you don't log in for a day or more, you automatically refine extra for the days you haven't logged in, up to a week.
Yes this feature is also bugged I just logged on after 2 weeks of not playing and 1 out of my 3 characters still had the same amount of unrefined ore as they did two weeks ago.
My point however was not about me, LTS already get way too may perks, this was about all of us players.
I would like to see this option extended to all players LTS, GOLD, SILVER because it would offer those that work hard in during the week the chance to catch up and give them a another good reason to spend an extended amount of time in game on the weekend it would also be superior the current LTS perk.
Another nice feature would be if the rep system auto-queued projects for you if you are out of game as long as you had the resources stockpiled in your inv/bank. It would be a good way of getting around daily time-sinks hamstringing players who lives are too busy to log every day.
That's why the Lifetime Sub essentially includes one; if you don't log in for a day or more, you automatically refine extra for the days you haven't logged in, up to a week.
And the week ends on Saturday, right?
So under that system, someone who plays once a week on Saturday doesn't get any of the perks.
Make 56k on a Saturday. Refine 8k.
None of the other will autorefine.
Whereas if you make 56k on a Sunday, you only get the autorefine if you login before Saturday, right?
If ones life is busy enough that one cannot log in daily, one should not be giving a damned about how much they refine per week because one has more important priorities than a virtual hamster wheel.
I'd prefer weekly cap it would be of benefit to all players not just those who have the time to log on everyday.:cool:
But this is the problem - they DON"T want you to get that much dilithium in a week - by making it a daily rolling system that does not back up - the amount of dilithium refined is significantly reduced.
There is only one reason this game keeps running 24 hrs a day - 7 days a week - 365 days a year: people buy Zen to convert to dilitium.
Why would PWE want to do anything to reduce income?
If ones life is busy enough that one cannot log in daily, one should not be giving a damned about how much they refine per week because one has more important priorities than a virtual hamster wheel.
One might like to unwind on the weekend. Point being rather than someone playing STF's (which many enjoy) until they reach 8k and thinking whats the point of continuing, you would stay for longer play more in the knowledge they had a 70k weekly cap to fill.
Of course the demands of the real hamster wheel and not the virtual one often put someone off virtual hamster wheels, which is why any MMO worth it's salt tries to hide the fact you are on a hamster wheel. This is usually done by making things fun with variation, rewards and a strong grouplay - teamplay aspect.
But this is the problem - they DON"T want you to get that much dilithium in a week - by making it a daily rolling system that does not back up - the amount of dilithium refined is significantly reduced.
There is only one reason this game keeps running 24 hrs a day - 7 days a week - 365 days a year: people buy Zen to convert to dilitium.
Why would PWE want to do anything to reduce income?
I totally agree thats why it won't be done but it would attract a lot of player back into the game on the weekends who otherwise wouldn't bother at all.
I maintain it should be 50k a week but should go up by 1k for every space ESTF completion and 2k for every ground ESTF optional completion. I imagine that would be a net increase for most people.
And it should be a weekly reset, not daily, as people tend to miss out a lot by not playing daily.
And rate earned per hour of ore probably needs to be adjusted up to around 5k per hour.
WTH, you want me to be able to refine even less???
What they are trying to say is that in the avg week - the avg player does not log on every day and do the max or 8x7 = 56k
So 50k would actually be an much higher weekly refined total that say 80% of the player base normally does.
Hence - it will NEVER happen. Why - less sales of Zen to the weekend warriors that want things now.
It would be... and how many people currently refine 56k a week WITHOUT doing 6 Space ESTF optionals? Because at that point, you're back up to 56k.
And I think the idea that they don't want people refining more dilithium is a big, BIG assumption. One that goes against public comments.
And just because people refine more doesn't mean there has to be more in circulation.
Consider how the ZEN sales don't affect dilithium-ZEN rates right now. The people buying absolutely don't have the time, I'd venture to say, so cheaper ZEN or more dilithium probably won't budge the price dramatically anymore because neither one seems to have budged the rate in recent months; the error in assuming it would (and it's one I've made) is in treading dilithium as a commodity when it probably isn't quite a commodity since its functions are all intangible. Dilithium in that sense is less like gold or copper and more like milkshakes. We're at a fairly stable "psychological value" for ZEN.
And the number of dilithium sinks will always increase.
The real trick is just making sure that the amount of time needed to hit the basic weekly cap is roughly in line with the maximum average time the average player is willing to spend.
If it's less, you may see slight drop-offs in dilithium buying. (Although I'd wager stipends amount for a big chunk of this and that Cryptic wants stipends spent down.) If it's more, well... I don't think the market would change. In fact, we could be well over that number right now given that it takes 28 hours a week of "average play" to hit the refinement cap. (PvP and ESTFs are probably not "average play.")
I can say personally that I'd buy NO LESS dilithium if I was refining more, within reason. I'd just have more satisfaction.
It may sound odd but it goes to why I'm starting to think commodity models are wrong for dilithium and the real metric Cryptic needs to target is, effectively, what is the maximum amount of playtime per week that the median player wants to devote to the game.
And part of my pitch in all of this is also that I think Cryptic needs to train people to contribute around 10k dilithium per week to fleet projects.
Maybe you hear this many times heck I don't know sorry for it.
But my question is this why is the Dilithium cap only 8000 when there are projects around 14.000 or even higher it doesn't make any sense to me ?
Anyone else have an opinion on this ?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Maybe you hear this many times heck I don't know sorry for it.
But my question is this why is the Dilithium cap only 8000 when there are projects around 14.000 or even higher it doesn't make any sense to me ?
Anyone else have an opinion on this ?
My account cap is nearing 100,000 dilithium refining per day, so to be honest, I do not see the problem.
I rarely ever find myself with more than 8000 unrefined dilithium on a single character.
But my question is this why is the Dilithium cap only 8000 when there are projects around 14.000 or even higher it doesn't make any sense to me ?
Two reasons.
One it lets them control how quickly you can buy things with Dilithium. A 8k/day cap means that if something costs 16k it will take you 2 character/days to earn it. If you have 2 characters both can refine 8k...
Second, because then people will buy Dilithium with zen which means money for Cryptic/PWE.
lol we all dont have the time or will to grind with 10+ toons..
I rarely "grind". I play whatever I feel like playing. My point is, if you wanted to earn more than 8000 refined dilithium a day, you can easily do it by purchasing another character. Therefore, I do not really see the cap as a problem. Once in a while, I will get more than 8000 dilithium on one character, like my Klingon who somehow managed to get a lot of Capture and Hold missions at the same time (8 I think) and turned them in for 11000+ dilithium, or my main, who get the dilithium reward bonus from reaching T 5 on both characters. But it is a pretty rare occurrence.
Then it's probably me gut my hands full with my main and only char so I'll stick to that, and sorry I buy ZEN to buy stuff not that I can't buy anything special for my KDF so I grind to get stuff...
But I'm certainly not going to buy ZEN to convert it to dilithium... No Thanks
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Then it's probably me gut my hands full with my main and only char so I'll stick to that, and sorry I buy ZEN to buy stuff not that I can't buy anything special for my KDF so I grind to get stuff...
But I'm certainly not going to buy ZEN to convert it to dilithium... No Thanks
If you do not want to have more than one character, that is fine, but the option for you to refine more than 8000 dilithium a day certainly exists. You simply are not availing yourself of it.
This is the first game I have ever played. ever. that i had alts. Why? Dilithium. Cryptic isn't making a penny off of me because of it because I am a lifer but non-lifers will have to spend money to have alts, if I understand correctly.
This is the first game I have ever played. ever. that i had alts. Why? Dilithium. Cryptic isn't making a penny off of me because of it because I am a lifer but non-lifers will have to spend money to have alts, if I understand correctly.
Um, if you are a lifer then they made (200 on sale)-300 bucks off you right there.:rolleyes:
Maybe you hear this many times heck I don't know sorry for it.
But my question is this why is the Dilithium cap only 8000 when there are projects around 14.000 or even higher it doesn't make any sense to me ?
Anyone else have an opinion on this ?
14,000 Dilithium is less then 2 days of daily Dilithium cap production. So are you saying that what you want to purchase is worth less then 2 days of effort?
The purpose of the Dilithium refining cap is to limit the inflationary effects of excessive Dilithium in the market, as well as discouraging the activities of commercial Gold Farming companies, who would love to have a higher Dilithium refining cap limit...
lol we all dont have the time or will to grind with 10+ toons..
That statement has nothing to do with the OP's comments, though. Apparently the OP does have the time to grind more then 8,000 per day, as he wants the level cap increased. There's really not much difference between playing 1 character 4 hours to make 16,000 or playing 2 characters 2 hours each to make 16,000.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
That statement has nothing to do with the OP's comments, though. Apparently the OP does have the time to grind more then 8,000 per day, as he wants the level cap increased. There's really not much difference between playing 1 character 4 hours to make 16,000 or playing 2 characters 2 hours each to make 16,000.
In fact, if you're doing it right it should take less time to make 16,000 raw dilithium on two characters then on one.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
In fact, if you're doing it right it should take less time to make 16,000 raw dilithium on two characters then on one.
Takes between 2 to 4 hours to cap 4 characters at 8k a toon depending on how many breaks you take. Little longer for all 6 of my chars. Also having a couple of KDF characters, Contraband is in no shortage. So I turn in contraband before I log and thats an instant 2k per toon when I log in the next day. The other 6k per char is easy.
Plus since I have pretty much all the gear I need from the rep system, all the BNPs I get now from STFs get converted into dilith as well.
[...]
The purpose of the Dilithium refining cap is to limit the inflationary effects of excessive Dilithium in the market, as well as discouraging the activities of commercial Gold Farming companies, who would love to have a higher Dilithium refining cap limit...
I think not. It is there to monetize a social value stream given the extreme costs of Sb/E projects and the fact one can buy limitless amount for cash - pure and simple... If Cryptic cared about such things as discouraging "excessive" greed and avarice, it would have done something to limit the prices of things in the Exchange or made purples and keys as well as other things bind on pickup -etc...
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
I think not. It is there to monetize a social value stream given the extreme costs of Sb/E projects and the fact one can buy limitless amount for cash - pure and simple... If Cryptic cared about such things as discouraging "excessive" greed and avarice, it would have done something to limit the prices of things in the Exchange or made purples and keys as well as other things bind on pickup -etc...
Your talking about ECs here, and ECs and Dilithium are completely different animals. ECs are simply much easier to get, from 'Tour the Universe' event, and Foundry farming missions, with no daily cap limit. The excessive Exchange prices are due in part to the inflationary effects of too much ECs floating around. The commodity requirements for Fleet and Reputation projects did reduce prices a little, but with users finishing Rep, and major Fleets finishing up the base projects, this influence is starting to wane...
In addition to the Dilithium refinement cap, the introduction of Fleet bases, as well as new equipment in the Rep store has really increased in the in-game value of Dilithium. Before Season 6, price of Zen varied between the 200 to 300 Dilithium range. Look at what the price for Zen is on the Dilithium Exchange is today...
How about a C-store option that allows you to buy a dilithium cap increase like just for example: 1000 zen = 500 refining cap increase with a maximum cap increase of 20k per day this way we get what we want and cryptic/perfect world gets more money. a true win win for everyone.
another possiblility is to have a monthly cap increase of 12k per day in addition to the standared 8k cap with the subscription of a gold membership
For almost 3 weeks I've been farming dilithium ok not every day but as much as possible as I want a new ship, and I have only exchanged enough for 1574 zen. . .
Anyway any tips anyone on how to get this faster or am I the only one who really wants to scream
2000 dil once got me around 40 zen. i believe 8000 dil. is the max per day. so if 2000 dil, gets me around 40 zen lets say. thats 40X4 which equals 160 zen each day if you reach 8000 dilo. 160X7 equals 1,120 zen.
1,120 zenX3 equals 3,360 zen.
But then again we all have lives outside of STO, so we cant spend all our time grinding dilithium.
If people honestly don't think that botting doesn't happen in this game you have got to be kidding yourself. If you think RMTs are not making money off this game then you are lying to yourself. If you farm dilithium then turn it into zen once you hit a certain amount of zen then the person just turns around and sells the account for the worth of zen that is on it.
I have all these mining claims and a mountain piled high with dilithium ORE.
All of that could have gone on projects to get them finished.But no,the cap is in the way.
Come on devs,give us a break please,even a temporary one,so we can refine more,to speed these projects onward. 8000 dilithium is meezly.
A holiday(vacation) from the cap would be great please,just a temporary one.
Comments
That's why the Lifetime Sub essentially includes one; if you don't log in for a day or more, you automatically refine extra for the days you haven't logged in, up to a week.
Yes this feature is also bugged I just logged on after 2 weeks of not playing and 1 out of my 3 characters still had the same amount of unrefined ore as they did two weeks ago.
My point however was not about me, LTS already get way too may perks, this was about all of us players.
I would like to see this option extended to all players LTS, GOLD, SILVER because it would offer those that work hard in during the week the chance to catch up and give them a another good reason to spend an extended amount of time in game on the weekend it would also be superior the current LTS perk.
Another nice feature would be if the rep system auto-queued projects for you if you are out of game as long as you had the resources stockpiled in your inv/bank. It would be a good way of getting around daily time-sinks hamstringing players who lives are too busy to log every day.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
And the week ends on Saturday, right?
So under that system, someone who plays once a week on Saturday doesn't get any of the perks.
Make 56k on a Saturday. Refine 8k.
None of the other will autorefine.
Whereas if you make 56k on a Sunday, you only get the autorefine if you login before Saturday, right?
But this is the problem - they DON"T want you to get that much dilithium in a week - by making it a daily rolling system that does not back up - the amount of dilithium refined is significantly reduced.
There is only one reason this game keeps running 24 hrs a day - 7 days a week - 365 days a year: people buy Zen to convert to dilitium.
Why would PWE want to do anything to reduce income?
One might like to unwind on the weekend. Point being rather than someone playing STF's (which many enjoy) until they reach 8k and thinking whats the point of continuing, you would stay for longer play more in the knowledge they had a 70k weekly cap to fill.
Of course the demands of the real hamster wheel and not the virtual one often put someone off virtual hamster wheels, which is why any MMO worth it's salt tries to hide the fact you are on a hamster wheel. This is usually done by making things fun with variation, rewards and a strong grouplay - teamplay aspect.
I totally agree thats why it won't be done but it would attract a lot of player back into the game on the weekends who otherwise wouldn't bother at all.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
WTH, you want me to be able to refine even less???
What they are trying to say is that in the avg week - the avg player does not log on every day and do the max or 8x7 = 56k
So 50k would actually be an much higher weekly refined total that say 80% of the player base normally does.
Hence - it will NEVER happen. Why - less sales of Zen to the weekend warriors that want things now.
It would be... and how many people currently refine 56k a week WITHOUT doing 6 Space ESTF optionals? Because at that point, you're back up to 56k.
And I think the idea that they don't want people refining more dilithium is a big, BIG assumption. One that goes against public comments.
And just because people refine more doesn't mean there has to be more in circulation.
Consider how the ZEN sales don't affect dilithium-ZEN rates right now. The people buying absolutely don't have the time, I'd venture to say, so cheaper ZEN or more dilithium probably won't budge the price dramatically anymore because neither one seems to have budged the rate in recent months; the error in assuming it would (and it's one I've made) is in treading dilithium as a commodity when it probably isn't quite a commodity since its functions are all intangible. Dilithium in that sense is less like gold or copper and more like milkshakes. We're at a fairly stable "psychological value" for ZEN.
And the number of dilithium sinks will always increase.
The real trick is just making sure that the amount of time needed to hit the basic weekly cap is roughly in line with the maximum average time the average player is willing to spend.
If it's less, you may see slight drop-offs in dilithium buying. (Although I'd wager stipends amount for a big chunk of this and that Cryptic wants stipends spent down.) If it's more, well... I don't think the market would change. In fact, we could be well over that number right now given that it takes 28 hours a week of "average play" to hit the refinement cap. (PvP and ESTFs are probably not "average play.")
I can say personally that I'd buy NO LESS dilithium if I was refining more, within reason. I'd just have more satisfaction.
It may sound odd but it goes to why I'm starting to think commodity models are wrong for dilithium and the real metric Cryptic needs to target is, effectively, what is the maximum amount of playtime per week that the median player wants to devote to the game.
And part of my pitch in all of this is also that I think Cryptic needs to train people to contribute around 10k dilithium per week to fleet projects.
But my question is this why is the Dilithium cap only 8000 when there are projects around 14.000 or even higher it doesn't make any sense to me ?
Anyone else have an opinion on this ?
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
My account cap is nearing 100,000 dilithium refining per day, so to be honest, I do not see the problem.
I rarely ever find myself with more than 8000 unrefined dilithium on a single character.
Two reasons.
One it lets them control how quickly you can buy things with Dilithium. A 8k/day cap means that if something costs 16k it will take you 2 character/days to earn it. If you have 2 characters both can refine 8k...
Second, because then people will buy Dilithium with zen which means money for Cryptic/PWE.
lol we all dont have the time or will to grind with 10+ toons..
I rarely "grind". I play whatever I feel like playing. My point is, if you wanted to earn more than 8000 refined dilithium a day, you can easily do it by purchasing another character. Therefore, I do not really see the cap as a problem. Once in a while, I will get more than 8000 dilithium on one character, like my Klingon who somehow managed to get a lot of Capture and Hold missions at the same time (8 I think) and turned them in for 11000+ dilithium, or my main, who get the dilithium reward bonus from reaching T 5 on both characters. But it is a pretty rare occurrence.
But I'm certainly not going to buy ZEN to convert it to dilithium... No Thanks
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
If you do not want to have more than one character, that is fine, but the option for you to refine more than 8000 dilithium a day certainly exists. You simply are not availing yourself of it.
That is all.
This is the first game I have ever played. ever. that i had alts. Why? Dilithium. Cryptic isn't making a penny off of me because of it because I am a lifer but non-lifers will have to spend money to have alts, if I understand correctly.
Um, if you are a lifer then they made (200 on sale)-300 bucks off you right there.:rolleyes:
lol. yeah they sure suckered me ($200). But i didn't have to pay for alts.
The purpose of the Dilithium refining cap is to limit the inflationary effects of excessive Dilithium in the market, as well as discouraging the activities of commercial Gold Farming companies, who would love to have a higher Dilithium refining cap limit...
In fact, if you're doing it right it should take less time to make 16,000 raw dilithium on two characters then on one.
Takes between 2 to 4 hours to cap 4 characters at 8k a toon depending on how many breaks you take. Little longer for all 6 of my chars. Also having a couple of KDF characters, Contraband is in no shortage. So I turn in contraband before I log and thats an instant 2k per toon when I log in the next day. The other 6k per char is easy.
Plus since I have pretty much all the gear I need from the rep system, all the BNPs I get now from STFs get converted into dilith as well.
I think not. It is there to monetize a social value stream given the extreme costs of Sb/E projects and the fact one can buy limitless amount for cash - pure and simple... If Cryptic cared about such things as discouraging "excessive" greed and avarice, it would have done something to limit the prices of things in the Exchange or made purples and keys as well as other things bind on pickup -etc...
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
In addition to the Dilithium refinement cap, the introduction of Fleet bases, as well as new equipment in the Rep store has really increased in the in-game value of Dilithium. Before Season 6, price of Zen varied between the 200 to 300 Dilithium range. Look at what the price for Zen is on the Dilithium Exchange is today...
another possiblility is to have a monthly cap increase of 12k per day in addition to the standared 8k cap with the subscription of a gold membership
2000 dil once got me around 40 zen. i believe 8000 dil. is the max per day. so if 2000 dil, gets me around 40 zen lets say. thats 40X4 which equals 160 zen each day if you reach 8000 dilo. 160X7 equals 1,120 zen.
1,120 zenX3 equals 3,360 zen.
But then again we all have lives outside of STO, so we cant spend all our time grinding dilithium.
All of that could have gone on projects to get them finished.But no,the cap is in the way.
Come on devs,give us a break please,even a temporary one,so we can refine more,to speed these projects onward. 8000 dilithium is meezly.
A holiday(vacation) from the cap would be great please,just a temporary one.