The terrible thing is people would buy a refinement increase. I know I would in a heart beat, if it was reasonably priced. For Lifetimers, over the long haul a refinement increase would be free, if they invested their stipend in it.
Cheers from Antonio Valerio Cortez III, Half-Celestial Archduke of the Free Marches Confederacy.
If their base math says 480 dil = 15min, then the 8000 cap means player can maximum play 250 minutes (4 hours) per day. Which I think is enough. Longer play should be 'punished' (not rewarded as much)
Really?
You want to punish someone who chooses to play more than 4 hours a day, thats not going to go very well, because the people who play for longer periods are the ones who are more likely to spend money on the game.
Never talk about punishing a playerbase, it will be painful... for you.
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Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
None of which are there to be advantageous to players.
Not everything can or should be advantageous to the players, at least where the ability to get cash currency for free is concerned. Cryptic, and PWE by extension, needs to make money. Dilithium to start with gives us a way around it, but if there was absolutely no incentive to spend money in the cash store, how do you propose Cryptic make money?
Removing the cap is an irresponsible, greedy, and short-sighted idea. Alternative versions of a cap, like the propsed reduced return over 8k or L99's 50k a week, would be fine. But not a removal.
For what it is worth I dont support the idea of a limit to be frank. The mechanic seems to be there purely to provide incentive for people to purchase and well I dont like such things. I was not happy when STO went F2P because of knowing such BS would end up in game and most if not all of the good stuff would end up behind such a gate but I digress...
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Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
I posted in the other thread about this suggesting a cstore cap increase, giving players a slightly higher cap and cryptic a little cash.
May not solve this indefinitely but might help a little.
Yeah, I see that argument a lot too and I'm not interested in buying any more character slots so I can grind myself to death getting each one to 8k per day. That makes me cringe. I like my couple characters and that's all I want to focus on.
I am not sure I understand your reasoning. With a very small number of exceptions, the dilithium cap only affects people who "grind" dilithium. If you do not "grind" dilithium, then you rarely have to worry about the cap. If you do "grind" dilithium, you have not presented a valid argument that "grinding" dilithium on multiple characters is different than "grinding" it on one character.
Average max level player refining per day is nowhere near the cap yet. Once the average Dilithium refined per day by max level players gets closer to the cap, we'll consider it.
I am not sure I understand your reasoning. With a very small number of exceptions, the dilithium cap only affects people who "grind" dilithium. If you do not "grind" dilithium, then you rarely have to worry about the cap. If you do "grind" dilithium, you have not presented a valid argument that "grinding" dilithium on multiple characters is different than "grinding" it on one character.
LOL. Now I know why your forum handle is Logicalspock.
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I am not sure I understand your reasoning. With a very small number of exceptions, the dilithium cap only affects people who "grind" dilithium. If you do not "grind" dilithium, then you rarely have to worry about the cap. If you do "grind" dilithium, you have not presented a valid argument that "grinding" dilithium on multiple characters is different than "grinding" it on one character.
The difference is that you may need to gear up additional characters for grinding. This is likely to lead to additonal Z-store sales.
Seems pretty clear why the limit is going to stay.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The difference is that you may need to gear up additional characters for grinding. This is likely to lead to additonal Z-store sales.
Seems pretty clear why the limit is going to stay.
Exactly what gear are you buying from the Z-store? None of the top gear in the game is bought through the Z-store. Maybe if you count certain P2W consoles, but those are account wide unlocks available to every character you have.
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1440 for 3 matches (the mission takes 3 matches to complete), so 6 x 3 = 18 matches and i have 8640 and thats useually within my first hour of logging on,
add random pve (elite stf's) that also give you 940 for each
Exactly what gear are you buying from the Z-store? None of the top gear in the game is bought through the Z-store. Maybe if you count certain P2W consoles, but those are account wide unlocks available to every character you have.
None of the top ships in the game come through the store?
And there's the character slots themselves. And QoL things like storage, DOFF capacity etc...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Just been thinking about this, doesn't it make sense?
I'd imagine the amount of gold subscribers is pretty low these days given that there's pretty much no incentive to subbing any more. Cryptic/PWE might be reluctant about increasing the dilithium refinement cap because it'll hurt their profit, so why not make it sub only?
That way the exclusively F2P players can refine 8k/day
Those who pay $20/month (or w/e it is) can refine an unlimited amount.
Personally I would say lifers should be somewhere in the middle - I know that will probably cause some backlash around here, but they act all high and mighty but lets be honest, plenty of them have invested less money in this game than a large chunk of silver/gold members.
Where do people come up with this notion you need to grind to get Dil?
If I'm playing just to max Dil, I probably play the game less during those periods than at any other time. DOFF assignments, maybe the odd Academy Event since 120 particles = 4600 dil for an hour. That's all it takes.
I've played through the story missions. I'm Tier 5 in both rep factions. I get 75 fleet marks every day or two from a Commendation DOFF assignement. It's not like I'm passing up on stuff that needs doing in order to get Dil. Any actual play time I put in at the moment is usually teaming up with fleetmates to do whatever they are doing.
If I actually *needed* more Dil, I'd just go do the Deferi dailies, which take all of what half an hour if you're slow? And there's no way I wouldn't be maxed. And I haven't *needed* those in ages.
This idea you need to grind for Dil is an absolute strawman. Dil is the one thing you can consistently get without even running a mission. All the actual gameplay is just gravy, on that front.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
1440 for 3 matches (the mission takes 3 matches to complete), so 6 x 3 = 18 matches and i have 8640 and thats useually within my first hour of logging on,
add random pve (elite stf's) that also give you 940 for each
so yea, its not that hard to make over 8000 a day
Have you thought... that perhaps not everyone can log in every day?
This is why the idea of a weekly cap is so awesome.
Someone like me who works hard during the week can log on the weekend and feel like we're achieving something... this change alone would encourage me to return to the game.
I currently have an excess of 68 BNP's and 107 mining claims.
It would be nice to use all these to get refined dilithium,but i can't due to this stupid silly rule of 8000 a day.
8000 a day is NOT enough. Devs do something about this problem now.
The current dilithium cap is unjust and its unfair.
Please either substantially raise it or scrap it altogether.
It is an inconvenient nuisance and holds up being able to complete projects.
Inconvenient?...maybe.
But if the Dilithium exchange ends up like the EC exchange and everything is 50 bajillion (insert currency here) like every MMO economy eventually becomes, that would change from inconvenient to major pain in the a$$!
Just because a few have time to grind like a Chinese gold farmer doesn't mean the out of whack economies are good or fun.
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Dilithium refining cap is already fair and even generous by F2P game standards. If you've got an excess of dil ore, then either switch to a different character to earn dil there, or just rest content in the knowledge that apparently you're really enjoying your game.
That said, the dilithium mining claims should be account-bound rather than character-bound. Not really sure why they thought that was a good idea.
I think a slight bump in the cap to 10k per day is all that is warrented - given the massive amount of things that cost dilthium vs when the cap started.
Anything else would affect PWE's bottom line as people would not buy as much Zen with real money to convert.
And if it reduces profits - it's not going to happen.
I think a slight bump in the cap to 10k per day is all that is warrented - given the massive amount of things that cost dilthium vs when the cap started.
Anything else would affect PWE's bottom line as people would not buy as much Zen with real money to convert.
And if it reduces profits - it's not going to happen.
I'd prefer weekly cap it would be of benefit to all players not just those who have the time to log on everyday.:cool:
Golds should get their cap raised to 8500 and LTS to 9000, on top of the existing vet DOff refinement mission that grants another 500 a day.
Shafting LTS because you don't think they spend as much money as Golds and Silvers is pretty stupid, though.
Yes attacking a proportion of the paying player base was unwise from the opening poster and would downright stupid from Cryptic if they ever did it.
I don't think that there should much of an increase if any for LTS or Gold, if we take Dan at his word and accept Dilithium is a time based currency designed for Silver members to have access to the store (it is of course no longer purely that) then I really think LTS and Gold who already get a Zen stipend should not get yet another perk.
I say raise the cap to a 70k weekly limit for all.
I mainly play on weekends due to working. So far I have only hit the cap like a few times, but its rare. I do the DOFF missions like mad as well. But I don't have a full crew of them yet to really get that going. This past weekend I bought a bunch of them to get more going.
Most of the time, I usually hit around 1/2 to 2/3 of the cap. To me the cap isn't a problem for me yet.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
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I'd imagine the amount of gold subscribers is pretty low these days given that there's pretty much no incentive to subbing any more.
LTS and subs exist solely as a legacy of the previous business model. They make far more money off of the micro transaction model. There's no reason for them to sweeten the pot for subs.
Golds should get their cap raised to 8500 and LTS to 9000, on top of the existing vet DOff refinement mission that grants another 500 a day.
Shafting LTS because you don't think they spend as much money as Golds and Silvers is pretty stupid, though.
Yes, I just re-read it and it sounded a lot harsher than I had intended it in my head. I was simply trying to get the point across that a lot of LTS on the forum tend to act like they care more about the game than everyone else and a small proportion come across as high-and-mighty. I respect anyone willing to splash out such a large amount of money in one go on a game they want to support and help - but I have even more respect for the people that have been gold members for a year or two.
I realised after posting that this is open to abuse, because people would just hoard up a bunch of unrefined dilithium, subscribe to gold for one month, refine it all, and then go back to silver - so it would need some work.
LTS and subs exist solely as a legacy of the previous business model. They make far more money off of the micro transaction model. There's no reason for them to sweeten the pot for subs.
Whilst I agree it would be utterly foolish to assume that subscribers and life time subs do not spend money on microtransactions.
Comments
Really?
You want to punish someone who chooses to play more than 4 hours a day, thats not going to go very well, because the people who play for longer periods are the ones who are more likely to spend money on the game.
Never talk about punishing a playerbase, it will be painful... for you.
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Not everything can or should be advantageous to the players, at least where the ability to get cash currency for free is concerned. Cryptic, and PWE by extension, needs to make money. Dilithium to start with gives us a way around it, but if there was absolutely no incentive to spend money in the cash store, how do you propose Cryptic make money?
Removing the cap is an irresponsible, greedy, and short-sighted idea. Alternative versions of a cap, like the propsed reduced return over 8k or L99's 50k a week, would be fine. But not a removal.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
May not solve this indefinitely but might help a little.
Quadruple it.
All others need to sub for the 800 days.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I am not sure I understand your reasoning. With a very small number of exceptions, the dilithium cap only affects people who "grind" dilithium. If you do not "grind" dilithium, then you rarely have to worry about the cap. If you do "grind" dilithium, you have not presented a valid argument that "grinding" dilithium on multiple characters is different than "grinding" it on one character.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8072311#post8072311
EDIT:
LOL. Now I know why your forum handle is Logicalspock.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
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The difference is that you may need to gear up additional characters for grinding. This is likely to lead to additonal Z-store sales.
Seems pretty clear why the limit is going to stay.
Exactly what gear are you buying from the Z-store? None of the top gear in the game is bought through the Z-store. Maybe if you count certain P2W consoles, but those are account wide unlocks available to every character you have.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As a PvPer I get way over 8000 a day,
1440 for 3 matches (the mission takes 3 matches to complete), so 6 x 3 = 18 matches and i have 8640 and thats useually within my first hour of logging on,
add random pve (elite stf's) that also give you 940 for each
so yea, its not that hard to make over 8000 a day
None of the top ships in the game come through the store?
And there's the character slots themselves. And QoL things like storage, DOFF capacity etc...
I'd imagine the amount of gold subscribers is pretty low these days given that there's pretty much no incentive to subbing any more. Cryptic/PWE might be reluctant about increasing the dilithium refinement cap because it'll hurt their profit, so why not make it sub only?
That way the exclusively F2P players can refine 8k/day
Those who pay $20/month (or w/e it is) can refine an unlimited amount.
Personally I would say lifers should be somewhere in the middle - I know that will probably cause some backlash around here, but they act all high and mighty but lets be honest, plenty of them have invested less money in this game than a large chunk of silver/gold members.
Thoughts?
Kirk's Protege.
If I'm playing just to max Dil, I probably play the game less during those periods than at any other time. DOFF assignments, maybe the odd Academy Event since 120 particles = 4600 dil for an hour. That's all it takes.
I've played through the story missions. I'm Tier 5 in both rep factions. I get 75 fleet marks every day or two from a Commendation DOFF assignement. It's not like I'm passing up on stuff that needs doing in order to get Dil. Any actual play time I put in at the moment is usually teaming up with fleetmates to do whatever they are doing.
If I actually *needed* more Dil, I'd just go do the Deferi dailies, which take all of what half an hour if you're slow? And there's no way I wouldn't be maxed. And I haven't *needed* those in ages.
This idea you need to grind for Dil is an absolute strawman. Dil is the one thing you can consistently get without even running a mission. All the actual gameplay is just gravy, on that front.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Have you thought... that perhaps not everyone can log in every day?
This is why the idea of a weekly cap is so awesome.
Someone like me who works hard during the week can log on the weekend and feel like we're achieving something... this change alone would encourage me to return to the game.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Inconvenient?...maybe.
But if the Dilithium exchange ends up like the EC exchange and everything is 50 bajillion (insert currency here) like every MMO economy eventually becomes, that would change from inconvenient to major pain in the a$$!
Just because a few have time to grind like a Chinese gold farmer doesn't mean the out of whack economies are good or fun.
Help rebuild the Romulan Star Empire to glory. Click the banner to join today.
A re-thinking of the cap is not necessarily a bad idea, however. A weekly cap is one idea, and a slight cap bump for LTS is another good one.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
The thread should have ended with this.
Shafting LTS because you don't think they spend as much money as Golds and Silvers is pretty stupid, though.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Anything else would affect PWE's bottom line as people would not buy as much Zen with real money to convert.
And if it reduces profits - it's not going to happen.
I'd prefer weekly cap it would be of benefit to all players not just those who have the time to log on everyday.:cool:
#2311#2700#2316#2500
This will mean people are paying $20 to refine an extra 240,000 Dil. I'm sure there's a lot that will sub for a month just to clear their backlog.
Yes attacking a proportion of the paying player base was unwise from the opening poster and would downright stupid from Cryptic if they ever did it.
I don't think that there should much of an increase if any for LTS or Gold, if we take Dan at his word and accept Dilithium is a time based currency designed for Silver members to have access to the store (it is of course no longer purely that) then I really think LTS and Gold who already get a Zen stipend should not get yet another perk.
I say raise the cap to a 70k weekly limit for all.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Most of the time, I usually hit around 1/2 to 2/3 of the cap. To me the cap isn't a problem for me yet.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
LTS and subs exist solely as a legacy of the previous business model. They make far more money off of the micro transaction model. There's no reason for them to sweeten the pot for subs.
Yes, I just re-read it and it sounded a lot harsher than I had intended it in my head. I was simply trying to get the point across that a lot of LTS on the forum tend to act like they care more about the game than everyone else and a small proportion come across as high-and-mighty. I respect anyone willing to splash out such a large amount of money in one go on a game they want to support and help - but I have even more respect for the people that have been gold members for a year or two.
I realised after posting that this is open to abuse, because people would just hoard up a bunch of unrefined dilithium, subscribe to gold for one month, refine it all, and then go back to silver - so it would need some work.
Kirk's Protege.
Whilst I agree it would be utterly foolish to assume that subscribers and life time subs do not spend money on microtransactions.
#2311#2700#2316#2500