One thing I have noticed throughout the SW vs ST debates I've been involved in (both on Trek forums, Wars forums, and neutral forums) is that the people that are fans of both franchises tend to make good points, fans exclusively of Wars make sensible points but can concede some parts of Trek are better, and fans of ST make points such as:
So yeah... I think Wars wins in a "whose fans can debate better?" debate.
In ROTS you can see the spent shells from the turbolasers on the gundecks.
From what I can tell from the EU the turbolasers, and by extension most capital ship weapons, are explosive shells wrapped in energy to propel them at their target.
I think the ion canon however is energy so the Borg could adapt to it after a few shots, though reasonably it could instantly disable any cube it hits, the bigger question is can you remodulate a ion cannon?
Shells are old school baby, do phasers leave a large wastfull mess behind?
Turbolasers are energy weapons, basically massively scaled-up blaster pistols.
It'd be interesting to see how well a Borg Cube could cope with a full volley from the Ion cannons, though. Glorified cyborgs being hit by ionised particles that fuse joints and cause short circuits... can't see it ending well for them.
Even if they manage to destroy a cube or two, the Borg ADAPT to weapons of any power, its just a matter of time, now if the death star was equipped with a Bio Phaser, or tech 50yrs more advanced than what the Borg (or Starfleet) use, (for star wars it would be like 100,000,000,000yrs) that would be different.
Ok, listen everyone, I'm so very sorry for calling you names and being mean, t's just when it comes to topics like this (which I probably should not have made) I get really mad, this may be a Star Trek site, but that dose'nt mean that people can't like star wars better, I truly am sorry, but when it comes down to it, Star Trek still have a big edge against star wars, just think of the creativity between the two, star wars: lazers, blasters, hyperdrive, death star, I just see that as somthing a three year old made up, another backup for the story line in star wars being lame, it's basicly good vs bad, while in Star Trek you never really know whats going to happen next (except in DS9 it was basicly a high tech war) i have also noticed that in star wars the three films don't have very good quality, even in TOS while the grafics were really bad the quallity of the shows was amazing for it's time.
Well Kirk and Spock used flip phones and TNG and DS9 used Ipads. Yes there were some crazy made up things but most of the things were at least plausible given enough advancement. No, it wasn't Issac Asimov style diamond hard sci-fi, but most things were at least partially based in reality.
SW is pretty much bad guys VS good guys. In ST however it isn't always as clear cut, most times it is a grey area with no clear right answers or course of action.
Although I agree Star Wars is your basic good versus evil story, Trek tends to be preachy. Episodes usually pose an ethical dilemma, which is resolved by the captain at the end of the episode. You can always count on Picard to explain the right choice.
It was pretty much a joke as time went on. Any issue was solved with using antiproton/reversethepolarity/ super magic particles in TNG.
Although I agree Star Wars is your basic good versus evil story, Trek tends to be preachy. Episodes usually pose an ethical dilemma, which is resolved by the captain at the end of the episode. You can always count on Picard to explain the right choice.
While theres nothing wrong with a moral to a story, this is one of the things I hated about TNG in particular. I know this will really make some posters unhappy, but the whole "humaniy bhas evolved into this perfect society" irked me. It makes bad draa, and they didn't even live up to it in the writing. Corrupt admirals, and all. The most interesting heroes are the ones that have flaws. This is where, IMHO TNG is weak. In trek shows and even ENT had characters that were more engaging. Again thats my opinion.
With a blaster at his side and a smile twelve parsecs wide.
Countdown until inevitable BLASPHEMY! post.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
In Star Trek, humans united with borgs against Undine. Now if I am correct, you don't see this kind of political move in Star Wars. So in short, Star Wars is for simple minded people who tend to see world (or galaxy) as black and white :P
Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
In Star Trek, humans united with borgs against Undine. Now if I am correct, you don't see this kind of political move in Star Wars. So in short, Star Wars is for simple minded people who tend to see world (or galaxy) as black and white :P
No formidable enemies? How about the Yuuzhan Vong, a species responsible for nearly 365 trillion sentient deaths, who led such a successful invasion of the galaxy they even managed to capture Coruscant.
As for not seeing political action is Star Wars, the New Republic (who formed from the Rebel Alliance) ended the war with the Imperial Remnant (the remains of the Galactic Empire).
If you want black and white, just look at Picard. Every time there's a moral decision to make, he'll ALWAYS go for the politically correct option instead of what may be the better choice for the galaxy/situation as a whole (that's probably a result of the wrong side winning the Eugenics Wars, but that's another debate entirely ).
Star Trek (or at least The UFP) is mostly a happy-clappy universe where as long as you act with the right intentions everything will work out in the end. Star Wars is simply a lot more dramatically involving, with betrayals, deaths of main characters, peace treaties, breaking of peace treaties, and most importantly, storylines where the good guys don't always win in the end.
I actually liked Space 1999 too. I have the first season on DVD. Insane premise, (moon blown out of orbit by a nuclear explosion) but I thought it was a good show, at least the first season.
Best part of Season 2 was Maya and I remember having an intense crush on her at the time.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
but that dose'nt mean that people can't like star wars better.
I don't.
No really my point was you arguments against SW didn't make sense.
Star Trek to me is Science Fiction. Star Wars is Fantasy...in space.
The ships, weapons, planets etc in SW are meant to be a device to expand the tale, in ST they are integral to the story and to it's sci-fi setting.
I love them both but in different ways.
Besides Doctor Who blows both out the water:D
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
In my mind, the only thing that gives Star Trek an edge over Star Wars is that there is no Jar Jar Binks in Star Trek.
THIS.
also, medical care in Star wars seems to suck HARDCORE. a robot telling a bunch of guys that their princess just lost the will to live or some bull**** like that... they just clearly let her die with no good reason... they barely did anything at all for the heavy larynx damage caused by Vader's force choke.
Now, even in the absence of visible external trauma, no medical attendant is going to ever miss the signs of acute laryngeal or bronchial obstruction - the patient turns blue. And the cure is simple to effect requiring nothing more complicated than a shape blade, a bic biro pen (or some similar tube) and steady nerves. And, I don't care how heart broken she was after losing Anakin to the dark side, no otherwise healthy young woman can just will herself dead.
Then there's the fact that Vader's face got horribly disfigured and he seemed to need some sort of life support 24/7... in order to need that famous helm and outfit that he is so well-known for now.
Star trek's medical technology would had solved both those issues in seconds... while star wars seems to only go with the barest minimum before giving up completely.
So yeah, Star Wars have awesome robots and ****.... but they don't seem to care much about healthcare and all that jazz.
also, medical care in Star wars seems to suck HARDCORE. a robot telling a bunch of guys that their princess just lost the will to live or some bull**** like that... they just clearly let her die with no good reason... they barely did anything at all for the heavy larynx damage caused by Vader's force choke.
Now, even in the absence of visible external trauma, no medical attendant is going to ever miss the signs of acute laryngeal or bronchial obstruction - the patient turns blue. And the cure is simple to effect requiring nothing more complicated than a shape blade, a bic biro pen (or some similar tube) and steady nerves. And, I don't care how heart broken she was after losing Anakin to the dark side, no otherwise healthy young woman can just will herself dead.
Then there's the fact that Vader's face got horribly disfigured and he seemed to need some sort of life support 24/7... in order to need that famous helm and outfit that he is so well-known for now.
Star trek's medical technology would had solved both those issues in seconds... while star wars seems to only go with the barest minimum before giving up completely.
So yeah, Star Wars have awesome robots and ****.... but they don't seem to care much about healthcare and all that jazz.
so Star Trek wins in that respect.
So why do they even need doctors in ST. If someone dies they can simply throw the body into the transporter and reconstitute him from the saved data in the transporter buffer.
So why do they even need doctors in ST. If someone dies they can simply throw the body into the transporter and reconstitute him from the saved data in the transporter buffer.
Sci-fi my rear end, thats fantasy baby !
The transporters are known to glitch up badly when it has some unexpected element interfering with it. so if we depended on that all the time to heal us up, we might come out looking like some sort of abomination that was born in hell. or wind up in the mirror universe every time it glitched up.
plus, even in star trek's universe, they always warn us that it's a bad idea completely to depend on machines completely.
such machines always needs that human element in order to keep it working like it's supposed to be... instead of glitching up so badly that nobody seems able to fix it. That's where the doctors come in.
Star Wars seems to depend on Robots too much, even to the point where they have robot doctors that are sucky at their jobs because they lack the passion to NOT quit on their patients the minute it seems that they have something critically wrong with them.
Not sure if I'm about to commit a serious offence here, but I don't mind Neelix. At worst I'd spike his drink with something that knocks him out for a few hours so I can enjoy some peace.
He is a bit irritating I grant you, but I still think Jar Jar is far worse.
Not sure if I'm about to commit a serious offence here, but I don't mind Neelix. At worst I'd spike his drink with something that knocks him out for a few hours so I can enjoy some peace.
He is a bit irritating I grant you, but I still think Jar Jar is far worse.
Agreed. plus, the other characters has the decency to not pretend that he is actually an awesome warrior or something like that like in Star Wars with Jar Jar. They actually acknowledge that Neelix is kind of annoying and that the only reason why they keep him around is because he's a pretty good informant on things that they aren't familiar with at times.
Heck, even Tuvok choked the hell out of a holographic representation of Neeleix when he needed to let off some stress. http://youtu.be/VWlv_02fRyY
I guess the writers wanted a butt-monkey for the series, and Neelix was it. The Star trek cast basically tells Neelix to go stay in the kitchen unless needed!
this puts an damper on how annoying he can be. Because they're basically telling you: "No, you're not the only one who finds him annoying. We feel you, bro. But we do need his knowledge, etc. so what can we do?"
In star wars on the other hand, they're just like: "Oh, Jar Jar is a valuable member of our team!! Oh, since he did so well let's permanently make him our guide and delegate to the Galactic Senate so that he can always be around!"
They basically give Jar Jar brinks an false sense of entitlement, and basically excuses how annoying he is... so he runs around unrestrained with little motive to change his ways.
He is ten times more annoying because in universe he basically gets away with being annoying!!
At least with Neelix, they subtly remind him that there would be some people who finds him annoying, so he better tone it down a little.
Comments
Yawn. noob
Shells are old school baby, do phasers leave a large wastfull mess behind?
Even if they manage to destroy a cube or two, the Borg ADAPT to weapons of any power, its just a matter of time, now if the death star was equipped with a Bio Phaser, or tech 50yrs more advanced than what the Borg (or Starfleet) use, (for star wars it would be like 100,000,000,000yrs) that would be different.
Although I agree Star Wars is your basic good versus evil story, Trek tends to be preachy. Episodes usually pose an ethical dilemma, which is resolved by the captain at the end of the episode. You can always count on Picard to explain the right choice.
Who cares, really. It's a highly focused energy beam. Call it a laser, phaser or deadly super duper death ray of death, it's all the same thing.
Listen to George Takei when it comes to Star Wars Vs. Star Trek....you know he's right.
The Horror The Horror...
George Takei deserves to be president of the world, but he's too smart to do it.
While theres nothing wrong with a moral to a story, this is one of the things I hated about TNG in particular. I know this will really make some posters unhappy, but the whole "humaniy bhas evolved into this perfect society" irked me. It makes bad draa, and they didn't even live up to it in the writing. Corrupt admirals, and all. The most interesting heroes are the ones that have flaws. This is where, IMHO TNG is weak. In trek shows and even ENT had characters that were more engaging. Again thats my opinion.
Lets see human beings with advanced technology have settled in a distant galaxy in the distant past. Yup no time travel here
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
With a blaster at his side and a smile twelve parsecs wide.
Countdown until inevitable BLASPHEMY! post.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
:P
In Star Trek, humans united with borgs against Undine. Now if I am correct, you don't see this kind of political move in Star Wars. So in short, Star Wars is for simple minded people who tend to see world (or galaxy) as black and white :P
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
After this argument, I have no other choice except to surrender
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As for not seeing political action is Star Wars, the New Republic (who formed from the Rebel Alliance) ended the war with the Imperial Remnant (the remains of the Galactic Empire).
If you want black and white, just look at Picard. Every time there's a moral decision to make, he'll ALWAYS go for the politically correct option instead of what may be the better choice for the galaxy/situation as a whole (that's probably a result of the wrong side winning the Eugenics Wars, but that's another debate entirely
Star Trek (or at least The UFP) is mostly a happy-clappy universe where as long as you act with the right intentions everything will work out in the end. Star Wars is simply a lot more dramatically involving, with betrayals, deaths of main characters, peace treaties, breaking of peace treaties, and most importantly, storylines where the good guys don't always win in the end.
I would so go to see that Blade sequel, Takei would make an excellent replacement for Whistler!
That aside, he is right. Our great enemy gains while we squabble among ourselves. We must end the madness!
Best part of Season 2 was Maya and I remember having an intense crush on her at the time.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I don't.
No really my point was you arguments against SW didn't make sense.
Star Trek to me is Science Fiction. Star Wars is Fantasy...in space.
The ships, weapons, planets etc in SW are meant to be a device to expand the tale, in ST they are integral to the story and to it's sci-fi setting.
I love them both but in different ways.
Besides Doctor Who blows both out the water:D
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
THIS.
also, medical care in Star wars seems to suck HARDCORE. a robot telling a bunch of guys that their princess just lost the will to live or some bull**** like that... they just clearly let her die with no good reason... they barely did anything at all for the heavy larynx damage caused by Vader's force choke.
Now, even in the absence of visible external trauma, no medical attendant is going to ever miss the signs of acute laryngeal or bronchial obstruction - the patient turns blue. And the cure is simple to effect requiring nothing more complicated than a shape blade, a bic biro pen (or some similar tube) and steady nerves. And, I don't care how heart broken she was after losing Anakin to the dark side, no otherwise healthy young woman can just will herself dead.
Then there's the fact that Vader's face got horribly disfigured and he seemed to need some sort of life support 24/7... in order to need that famous helm and outfit that he is so well-known for now.
Star trek's medical technology would had solved both those issues in seconds... while star wars seems to only go with the barest minimum before giving up completely.
So yeah, Star Wars have awesome robots and ****.... but they don't seem to care much about healthcare and all that jazz.
so Star Trek wins in that respect.
So why do they even need doctors in ST. If someone dies they can simply throw the body into the transporter and reconstitute him from the saved data in the transporter buffer.
Sci-fi my rear end, thats fantasy baby !
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
The transporters are known to glitch up badly when it has some unexpected element interfering with it. so if we depended on that all the time to heal us up, we might come out looking like some sort of abomination that was born in hell. or wind up in the mirror universe every time it glitched up.
plus, even in star trek's universe, they always warn us that it's a bad idea completely to depend on machines completely.
such machines always needs that human element in order to keep it working like it's supposed to be... instead of glitching up so badly that nobody seems able to fix it. That's where the doctors come in.
Star Wars seems to depend on Robots too much, even to the point where they have robot doctors that are sucky at their jobs because they lack the passion to NOT quit on their patients the minute it seems that they have something critically wrong with them.
Not sure if I'm about to commit a serious offence here, but I don't mind Neelix. At worst I'd spike his drink with something that knocks him out for a few hours so I can enjoy some peace.
He is a bit irritating I grant you, but I still think Jar Jar is far worse.
Agreed. plus, the other characters has the decency to not pretend that he is actually an awesome warrior or something like that like in Star Wars with Jar Jar. They actually acknowledge that Neelix is kind of annoying and that the only reason why they keep him around is because he's a pretty good informant on things that they aren't familiar with at times.
Heck, even Tuvok choked the hell out of a holographic representation of Neeleix when he needed to let off some stress.
http://youtu.be/VWlv_02fRyY
I guess the writers wanted a butt-monkey for the series, and Neelix was it. The Star trek cast basically tells Neelix to go stay in the kitchen unless needed!
this puts an damper on how annoying he can be. Because they're basically telling you: "No, you're not the only one who finds him annoying. We feel you, bro. But we do need his knowledge, etc. so what can we do?"
In star wars on the other hand, they're just like: "Oh, Jar Jar is a valuable member of our team!! Oh, since he did so well let's permanently make him our guide and delegate to the Galactic Senate so that he can always be around!"
They basically give Jar Jar brinks an false sense of entitlement, and basically excuses how annoying he is... so he runs around unrestrained with little motive to change his ways.
He is ten times more annoying because in universe he basically gets away with being annoying!!
At least with Neelix, they subtly remind him that there would be some people who finds him annoying, so he better tone it down a little.