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PARTIAL refunds on ZEN products
gong1fu1panda
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I originally started the two following threads
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=533841
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=533891
before I realized that both underlying problems are the same. Sorry for not posting it in the right discussion. This post is not supposed to be a double post.
The problem is like this:
1) You cannot return ZEN products like ships, bridges, outfit etc. etc. I really hate having stuff in my inventory that I no longer use but cannot really get rid of. I want to be able to dump the old stuff in the sense that you yield the "right of ownership". I'm talking about a return policy that allows you to part from unwanted items once and for all without the possibility of reclaiming.
2) In return for terminating the "right of ownership", the player should receive a !!!PARTIAL!!! refund. By partial, I mean e.g. 10% of original ZENs or Dillithium or EC or anything. For me that is important because I don't want to have the feeling that I have spent ZEN on nothing when I throw things out of the window.
3) I do hope that Cryptic makes cash to continue the game. That's why I am proposing a PARTIAL refund. A little ZEN, Dillithium or EC would give me the motivation to part from old junk. I would buy new products that I would not consider under the current policy, because some of the new products have a tendency to replace the older ones and I do not want to make things I once bought obsolete. I think in the end Cryptic would actually cash in multiple times: I bought the first product, terminate it and get a minimal refund then buy the newer version...repeat until done.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=533841
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=533891
before I realized that both underlying problems are the same. Sorry for not posting it in the right discussion. This post is not supposed to be a double post.
The problem is like this:
1) You cannot return ZEN products like ships, bridges, outfit etc. etc. I really hate having stuff in my inventory that I no longer use but cannot really get rid of. I want to be able to dump the old stuff in the sense that you yield the "right of ownership". I'm talking about a return policy that allows you to part from unwanted items once and for all without the possibility of reclaiming.
2) In return for terminating the "right of ownership", the player should receive a !!!PARTIAL!!! refund. By partial, I mean e.g. 10% of original ZENs or Dillithium or EC or anything. For me that is important because I don't want to have the feeling that I have spent ZEN on nothing when I throw things out of the window.
3) I do hope that Cryptic makes cash to continue the game. That's why I am proposing a PARTIAL refund. A little ZEN, Dillithium or EC would give me the motivation to part from old junk. I would buy new products that I would not consider under the current policy, because some of the new products have a tendency to replace the older ones and I do not want to make things I once bought obsolete. I think in the end Cryptic would actually cash in multiple times: I bought the first product, terminate it and get a minimal refund then buy the newer version...repeat until done.
Post edited by gong1fu1panda on
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As for the inventory part, I'm pretty sure you can discard 99% of the Z-store ships/items and re-claim them.
No I just don't want to see the old junk anymore. I would burn my Dreadnaught for 10000 Dillithium or less. And that's really not get as MUCH money back as possible. Unfortunately, I can do neither. Besides in the real world you can sell your old car to someone else (but that is not the point here).
That is exactly what I don't want. It's like having a divorce. Sometimes you cannot really have the divorce because you are still connected to your ex through the children...
Second a real world product from Walmart... You can't return for half off after use. Now Walmart & others do have a return policy. But most don't on games that are open. Reason is its entertainment not a blender. I own a bussiness with 0 return because I'm a service. STO is like Disney World. No refunds;). Now sometimes some will give you credit for rain but not for I only want to go half a day so I want half off;)
Before you say "well let me sale that ship or uniform". No because Cryptic wants to make money. Not let you make money. Darn them!
How many Zen products? About 30, mostly ships excluding the services and the countless master keys.
And I never asked for "half off"! Did you even read my post? If I ask 1000 or 10000 Dillithium for dumping the Dreadnaught, that's equal to 10-100 ZEN refund for a 2000-2500 ZEN ship. Afterwards I would get the Ody bundle for 5000 ZEN, which I currently would not buy because of my other cruisers. This is really not much asking.
Or I have a year pass at The zoo. Been there 3x since getting it. But I'm tired of it. Maybe they can give me a percent off to turn that in early. With the extra money I can then spend it at there connecting water park! Yea that sound like something they would go go.
Again one more time you own nothing on that or any other game once the server is shutoff. I don't own Disney because I'm enjoying there park. So you have nothing to transfer over. You have a entertainment service that goes dark when the switch is turned off.
In most cases, your old car still has value to someone, since it still runs and your used car fits into someone's budget better than a brand new car.
There's no value in your ships in this game, except to you. It's a digital item; once you return that ship, it's gone.
Anyway, the point that most people are making is that Cryptic doesn't want you to get extra Zen or Dilithium for your old ships. They want you to spend that 2500 Zen on a ship, and then for that money to be theirs, forever. You have your ship, they have your money, and if you want anything else, you have to buy more Zen.
If Cryptic and PWE were to offer partial refunds in one form or another, I don't think any players would be opposed to it at all... it's just that most people are realistic in their expectations, and know that it will never happen.
Will they do this? Well they might. They also might start paying you to drink beer and watch TV. The probability is quite low.
PWEs customer service is pretty bad and their attitude seems to be once they have your money you never get it back, even if they mess up in some way. Heck, they do not even give you receipts for your purchases.
The only way you are likely to ever get a refund is if you sue them in small claims court. And if you do not have a better case than, "I'm tired of using this thing I bought," don't bother paying the filing fees.
I know I don't own anything and I really don't care who owns what. Nevertheless I think it would be good to have that minimal refund option and Cryptic would make far more money in the long run. Hell, I would even be satisfied with 100,000 EC. It's really not about the money, it's about the motivation to part from something without regret.
Yeah, but it is not a car. It is like downloading a copy of the New York Times onto your Kindle. Do you expect Amazon to give you a partial refund when you get tired of reading about what happened on January 3rd 2010?
wanna test it ? tribble
I just think that being able to dump a ZEN item for good and getting a tiny tiny benefit in the process is beneficial for the players and Cryptic. Unless you can explain why this would be bad for players or Cryptic, I will maintain my opinion.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
FFS please get over yourself ...I swear the level of narcissism in these fourm boards is insane
Actually, companies do do this, mainly because it encourages you to spend your money buying their product combined with the fact that your old graphics card is worth a certain amount of money.
It even might make sense to a certain degree with purely digital products since getting partial "store credit" for your old products entices you to spend more money but I doubt it will make much business sense to Cryptic. For starters, the mechanics of the game make it difficult to sell back things like Character slots or c-store ships (they would, for instance, have to ensure you have none of the consoles on any of your characters).
Given the hassle and the fact that it is not clear that it would encourage more Zen sales, I doubt Cryptic would ever do it.
Why won't they!! Well because they are a bussiness. They want to sale full price passes to other people. Not let me sale mine or return mine even for exchange of a hat. That is bussiness.
You know one more thing... I'm a day one player. Been a 6 month sub for... Well 3 years. I stuck around for vet rewards. My sub payment was due 2 weeks before the 1000 day and last vet reward. I paid for another 6 month to reach that 1000 day. My next payment is due March. I have no intention to pay for a sub after march because no point. I just wish they would end my sub early. I would return my 1000 day ship, the blue vet post if they would just give me something! 500 zen would be nice! Hey I am sticking around!! Ill even use more than the 500 zen refund. In the end it would be good for them because I am happy! I am sure there is also some lifers that would give it up for a little something something;)
However, I have never come across a company doing this a full year after purchase, unless you were trading in a car. I've seen discounted upgrades if the upgrade happened within 3 or 4 months.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
One of the few replies that actually discuss the matter at hand. Seems the 12th fleet has a sense for the essential.
Yes, I agree. There will be lots of players who like you calculate in hard cash and would not bother unless they get some kind of a full refund. If 99% of all players feel like that than this thread is useless.
But in the different threads regarding similar topics I have also met those who like me would like to get rid of stuff for good, but would not part from their old stuff without any benefits at all. It's not about $1-$2 or business!! I just want to get rid of something for good and get a little back so I don't have the feeling of making a complete waste. It's like getting the wrong duty officer. When you discharge him, you still get 1 dillithium (basically useless), but still makes me happy, because it was not a complete waste. That's also why I will never get the Ody bundle or the Vesta bundle, knowing that I can still use the Dreadnaught or the Intrepid which more or less could fill a similar role. Or to follow your example, I always sell my old video card although it's only worth 5$. I could throw it away, but I don't, because it still works and it would be a shame to throw away something that still works. The same issue with washing machines which sadly never break.
guys have been wishing the same thing for marriage for millenniums
Recapping 3 years of STO discussion, and prob even more in Champs:
Never - Going - To - Happen
I see we start to understand each other.
But let's just assume you could kick that 1000 day ship you hate so much and never gonna use again and you could get 10,000 dilithium in exchange that you need elsewhere, wouldn't you be tempted to take it? You could buy the ship you really want right now and not worry, it will replace an older ship you once bought. You would sell your car if it's still worth a dime as long as you have buyer right in front of you, would you not? Again selling, buying or return may be the wrong term in our case, but you know what I mean.
Looking from Cryptic's side: What is so bad to pay 10,000 dillithium and help a player get rid of junk, if this would motivate him to get a replacement worth tons of ZEN? Car companies make lots of money through leasing and in contrast to my proposal they actually pay back 40% of the original cost.
At least that's how I feel. If I'm the only one feeling like that, I apologize for opening this discussion. But I really don't think I am alone.
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
I know it is not refundable. I am not asking it is refundable or not. I am suggesting they change it a little.
No offense but if they started doing this(which will NEVER happen) PWE would become the laughing stock of the f2p industry. This would mean a big overhaul of the way C-store ships, and the equipment they contain, are handled in game. This would basically make C-store ships a single character, one time buy and they prolly would no longer let you put the equipment from them on other ships. Not to mention all the changes to the TOS they would have to make.
Long story short....its too much work and not worth the effort no matter how you try to spin it.
Um, I just told you that companies do this with video cards. Even Best Buy got into this, offering you store credit to turn in your old electronics.
It actually makes pretty good business sense.
MMO's aren't like retail establishments, though.
The main draw of a F2P MMO is its gameplay. A good F2P MMO is fun to play, so you're enticed to spend money on it.
Your example with video cards, though... you can buy the same electronics at Best Buy, CompUSA, Microcenter, etc. They're competing with each other over your business for the same products. You aren't going to be buying Star Trek starships from any other MMO, and if you aren't having fun in the actual game, you wouldn't be buying anything at all.