What in the meantime? Starfleet without a Flagship for several years?
No, and come to think of it, this can be partially the explanation of the Enterprise-E becomming a Sovereign class. The "D" was gone and they had a couple of Sovereign class starships just fresh out of the owen, ready to go. With the added value of being the technologically most advanced starship at the moment, it's easy to deduct why they made the "E" a Sovereign class.
Anyway, Starfleet wouldn't be without a flagship for several years because the starship design and production is an ongoing process, so I supose they already have the possible substitutes when a ship class slowly ages and becomes obsolete. For example, there were Excelsiors long before the Enterprise become an Excelsior class.
Anyway, there is absolutely NO canon indication whatsoever that any other Enterprise besides the -D was starfleets Flagship, ever.
Please check some reliable sources if you don't belive me.
You just assume the others where flagships too, but in canon there isn't any clue that would confirm that.
True, there was no clear canon statement of this or at least none that I can remeber of atm. However, the happenings throughout the show that involved the ships bearing the name "Enterprise" clearly portrayed her as the flagship. For ex:
Why would they send Kirk with his "A" to negotiate a historic agreement of peace with Gorkon and the Klingon Empire?
Why would there be such media coverage at the launch of the Enterprise-B, when there were Excelsiors flying for years before that?
No but your statements indicated that you where thinking i would belive Starfleet was a primary militaric organisation, similar to Cryptics Starfleet.
Nah, like I said before - only the first paragraph of my post was directed as a reply to you. The rest was general talk in regard to the discussion in the last couple of pages. I know your posts and opinions, so I know better than to believe you think of Starfleet as a military organisation. You're one of the last people I'd expect that from.
Outside ST universe:
In my opinion they just got rid of the GCS, because they wanted a new ship that resembles more Kirks Enterprise more.
For me, the Sovereign has much more similarities to a Constitution refit than a GCS. So i think they just wanted to show the audience a more familiar ship.
If they would have been ok with the Style of the GCS, they easily could have updated the Design in the next Movie without problem. (maybe something like STOs venture Class but without the ugly engineering section and the too close pylons)
They reworked Kirks ship too, at TMP.
A completely new ship but they kept the general design. But ST:8 showed a completely different design than a Galaxy Class.
Well, you might be onto something, though personally when I first saw the Sovereign - the Constitution never came to mind. Just doesn't resemble it for me I guess. *shrugs*
However I believe their intention was to refresh the Enterprise with a new look, so they can create a bit more hype for the movies, sth. in a "Come see the new era of TNG movies with a completely new and awesome Enterprise!" kind of way.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
No, and come to think of it, this can be partially the explanation of the Enterprise-E becomming a Sovereign class. The "D" was gone and they had a couple of Sovereign class starships just fresh out of the owen, ready to go. With the added value of being the technologically most advanced starship at the moment, it's easy to deduct why they made the "E" a Sovereign class.
At least i don't understand, why picard got the command of another Enterpise.
Nor do i understand why they made a sovereign the next enterprise, just because it was technically a bit more advanced at that time?
What if the most advanced ship would have been a Nova or Intrepid Class?
I hope you see my problem with that. In my opinion Starfleet should have made the next Eneterprise (-E) a Galaxy Class and give Picard and his fellows a Sovereign Class bearing another name.
True, there was no clear canon statement of this or at least none that I can remeber of atm. However, the happenings throughout the show that involved the ships bearing the name "Enterprise" clearly portrayed her as the flagship. For ex:
Why would they send Kirk with his "A" to negotiate a historic agreement of peace with Gorkon and the Klingon Empire?
Why would there be such media coverage at the launch of the Enterprise-B, when there were Excelsiors flying for years before that?
Fact is we don't know.
There could be hundreds of ships doing similar missions all the time. they could have being assigned because of their experience witrh the Klingons.
Or they could have got that assignment because they where "volunteering"* for that mission.
*Spock did that, if you watch the movie.
The media presence at the maiden voyage of the -B could have been just because of the history of ships called Enterprise (let's not forget the NX-01).
There could have been thousands other reaqsons for this and that, fakt is the big D was the only Enterprise being designated as Starfleets Flagship.
(whatever that may mean, btw.)
Nah, like I said before - only the first paragraph of my post was directed as a reply to you. The rest was general talk in regard to the discussion in the last couple of pages. I know your posts and opinions, so I know better than to believe you think of Starfleet as a military organisation. You're one of the last people I'd expect that from.
Well, you might be onto something, though personally when I first saw the Sovereign - the Constitution never came to mind. Just doesn't resemble it for me I guess. *shrugs*
However I believe their intention was to refresh the Enterprise with a new look, so they can create a bit more hype for the movies, sth. in a "Come see the new era of TNG movies with a completely new and awesome Enterprise!" kind of way.
Maybe that was just my personal and purely subjective observation, but for me the Sovereign looks much less advanced that a GCS. Yeah, i know many will say now "hey it looks sleeker and faster!".
For me certain design elements of that ship don't look more advanced at all. Especially the oversized Nacelles and the huge bussard collectors look almost a bit retro for me.
The comparable huge Impuls engines don't look as if they where from the same century as the GCS.
There are many more things like the less fluid shape and the somehow artificially streched overall look of the ship that make it look odd to me. The huge nacelles but their fragile connection to the rest of the ship in contrast to the sturdy looking Engineering - Saucer connection look just strange IMO.
It looks as if someone from Kirks era who wanted to create a faster looking ship.
Something just isn't right, but i can't pinpoint it.
For me it's not only just the technical things that make it not a sucessor to the GCS, its design clearly is descending from the Excelsior but not the GCS.
So i think the idea of the Sovereign being a replacement to the Excelsior is much more appropriate on more than just one level.
But on the other hand i thing the Ambassador and Galaxy are much more likeable to have another deisgn line then the Excel/Sovereign.
I could imagine that somewhen in the late 23rd/beginning 24th century, Starfleet decided they needed two types of heavy ships.
One being a sturd and mass produceable while the another one being a much more heavy and bigger but also more expensive shipclass. Maybe with the withdrawal of the Constitution class from service and the extension of federation territory in the mean time they needed to difference the fleet somehow.
The mass produced line of ships being represented by the Excelsior and other ships like the Cheyenne and others for more that a hundred years now is going to be replaced by the Sovereign and Akira.
The Ambassador which was designed later than the Excelsior served more like a heavy Version of the previous one, but was replaced by the GCS, maybe because it was too small for the requested mission profile. So they decided to start the Nebula and Galaxy Class project. Both ship types have their purpose IMO.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I run a cannon/180 Q-torp/turret Fleet Excel, it can "punch back", but only in a limited manner. If a person uses beams, BO3 might give a good single hit punch, but the power drain (even with engineer bonus's, EPTX, Aux2batt, etc.) makes the following shots weak. CRF2 is helpful, but more for critting' and procs' than actual "balanced" pain giving. If Beam Overload wasn't such a drain to the system, I would be more inclined to agree with you.
The bane of cruisers is that the Engie' Boff skils, especially damage/debuff skills are much weaker than the other two Boff classes.
single canon are not effective enought and BO3 alone is not that good too, i was more thinking of BO2 and attack pattern delta or omega with an double auxtobat build with leech console, batterie if needed, and red matter capacitor.
here you got something that can kick especially with a tact captain.
Kirk was a Flag Officer of the Fleet.
As was Picard.
I do not know about John or Rachel.
With Kirk or Picard, any ship that they were on was possible of being a flagship should it be called for.
The Enterprise is a Flagship name.
It is the face for the UFP. Similar in a way that Micheal Jordan was the face of the NBA.
But that doesn't mean that there needs to be an Enterprise either.
Think between Enterprise C and D. There was a significant amount of time that passed after the destruction of the C.
The Fleet and the UFP do not "need" the Enterprise.
But when you can point at a single vessel with such a lineage as the Enterprise to other species, be they friend or foe, as a representation of your ideals and beliefs as an entity.
That is pretty powerful.
As for the Sovereign being a replacement for the Excelsior.
We've been pointing that out for years.
Rick Sternbach mentioned that she was a replacement for the Excelsior. Which filled the role of the workhorse in the Fleet.
single canon are not effective enought and BO3 alone is not that good too, i was more thinking of BO2 and attack pattern delta or omega with an double auxtobat build with leech console, batterie if needed, and red matter capacitor.
here you got something that can kick especially with a tact captain.
Either way you go, you are still not going to be threatening enough with a cruiser to be the primary, secondary or tertiary target in a group of five if the group is predominated by escorts.
But agility also works around the distribution of mass. Something that if stretched out is a mile long will not turn as well as itself folded into a smaller tighter area. Also math.
Weight distribution is great, but some of the better handling sports cars are not mid-engined or 50/50 distribution biased, but front engine and somewhat nose heavy.
Your statement about "stretched out turning" isnt so much truth, most "sports cars" these days have a wheelbase that is as long, if not longer, than the typical midsize sedan.
Further more the GCS was shown as being exceptionally maneuverable for her size.
We see in Generations an example of extreme warp field control and power output when she turns on a dime and performs a low warp turn. Another example of a low warp turn that is not as tight is in Q Who.
In DS9 we see an example of an Ambassador and a Nebula Class executing a very tight turn, both are ships of significant mass. So mass is important but so is its distribution.
A Galaxy's mass is better distributed for agility than a Sovereign is.
Unless we are talkin barrel rolls. Then the Sovereign is ALL over that!
And I can make my Galaxy Class ships turn on a dime just like in the show two, its called EPTE and Evasive. We never see the Galaxy doing multiple turns in a sequence so why arent they doing the same on the show?
As far as the "modularity" of the Galaxy design, I am starting to think it would make far more sense to just have a different saucer section attached for different missions than to put the ship in space dock, and change over the "modules" to the new purpose, especially considering that for combat and adding extra reactors and other items on the power distribution network and not having to upgrade those networks for the whole ship to handle it. It seems to me that it would take months to do that sort of change.
As far as the Galaxy's "large beam array", I dont see how having more emitters is more useful for a larger energy blast than having a larger capacitor network. If the beam array was shooting many different shots at once , not just one big one, massive numbers of emitters make sense, but for a large blast, a larger capacitor would work better for what we saw on TNG.
Kirk was a Flag Officer of the Fleet.
As was Picard.
I do not know about John or Rachel.
With Kirk or Picard, any ship that they were on was possible of being a flagship should it be called for.
The Enterprise is a Flagship name.
It is the face for the UFP. Similar in a way that Micheal Jordan was the face of the NBA.
But that doesn't mean that there needs to be an Enterprise either.
Think between Enterprise C and D. There was a significant amount of time that passed after the destruction of the C.
The Fleet and the UFP do not "need" the Enterprise.
But when you can point at a single vessel with such a lineage as the Enterprise to other species, be they friend or foe, as a representation of your ideals and beliefs as an entity.
That is pretty powerful.
As for the Sovereign being a replacement for the Excelsior.
We've been pointing that out for years.
Rick Sternbach mentioned that she was a replacement for the Excelsior. Which filled the role of the workhorse in the Fleet.
Sov visually is the sucessor to the Excelsior however in role I don't beleive so. That went to Akira with visually succeeds Miranda and Nebula. Though Nebula still as a role.
Starfleet has multiple flagships for their numbers of admirals and fleets. They as far as we know never had a fleet wide flagship till E-D
Take the monbosh battleship...Replace its model with the Galaxy class model
Call it the anti Borg Mk-II refit as seen in the Series
Release it in the Fed reinforcement duty officer pack at the current drop rate chance as the Monbosh has. Offer it in the lobi store for 800 lobi
Very little work and you make everyone happy cryptic and make tons of money
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Either way you go, you are still not going to be threatening enough with a cruiser to be the primary, secondary or tertiary target in a group of five if the group is predominated by escorts.
the point of this is not to reach the dps consistency and reliability of an escort, that is not possible in a normal cruiser in fed camp, so that is not the goal.
the point is to not be just a punchbag.
and bielieve me, when anyone will found himself in front of your DBB buff with tactical fleet, tactical team, FOMM, attack pattern alpha and omega/delta, he better be prepare to it, especially if his hull and shield have already suffer damage.
on top of that if you have the double tap BO build with the romulan beam array, you will have a combo that can be pretty much lethal to anyone.
anyone is free to play as he like, however you have to known that using the exelsior with an engineer is a misuse of it tactical potential wich will make all the difference between him and a simple assault cruiser.
right now you have the tanking abilitie that are very close to an assault cruiser or galaxy but you paid the price by beeing almost as toothless as they are, wich in the end give you the role of the punchbag in a team.
As far as the Galaxy's "large beam array", I dont see how having more emitters is more useful for a larger energy blast than having a larger capacitor network. If the beam array was shooting many different shots at once , not just one big one, massive numbers of emitters make sense, but for a large blast, a larger capacitor would work better for what we saw on TNG.
Actually it isn't very complicated.
Each phaser strip consists of a big amount of little single emitters. They are connected in series, the more are connnected in the stronger the blast.
So that means the the longer the phaser strip the stronger the whole array.
Every single phaser emitters can be replaced with a newer more up to date model very easily. So the argument the Sov had stronger phasers cannot be true, because the GCS still has the longer arrays, and more space for power generation (bigger M/A Reactor, which can also be replaced with newer models).
The biggest advantage of the GCS is it's modularity. It has enough space to carry much bigger equipment than any other (canon) Starfleet ship, it is also optimized to easily replace every part of equipment that is installed.
Take the monbosh battleship...Replace its model with the Galaxy class model
Call it the anti Borg Mk-II refit as seen in the Series
Release it in the Fed reinforcement duty officer pack at the current drop rate chance as the Monbosh has. Offer it in the lobi store for 800 lobi
Very little work and you make everyone happy cryptic and make tons of money
It could be worse.
I don't understand why every ship has to have a unique BOFF layout anyway. The different ships stats would make the ship unique regardless.
If i had to decide in that case, i would give the GCS a modified D'Deridex BOFF layout.
but instead of having a ensign tac and a ensign uni, i would give her a Lt. Engineering. Console Layout could be the same as the D'D.
But of course dontdrunkimshoots enhanced exploration cruiser retrofit 3 pack would be the best sollution.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Crpytic could release some PvE only ships.
No pvp only ships and no change to BOFF powers.
Just some canon ships that are banned from PvP.
They wouldn't be OP or contain a "i win button" but their flexible BOFF /Console Layout would contradict to current PvP balance.
Like Starfleet ships having more Uni Stations.
KDF ships could have a build-in Go down fighting mechanic...
Cruisers having much heavier Weapons than current STO Cruisers. (similar to "real" treks "cruisers" which should be called "Starships" btw).
Escorts could be much heavier armored similar to the "real" defiant.
... and so on.
These only where some "hero" ships that are iconic to Star Trek like the Intrepid, Galaxy Class, and Defiant. These where exceptions for the Fans or "fun" ships if you want to call them that way. They where not allowed to enter PvP fights.
But everyone could earn them through the reputation store (OMEGA or MACO for example).
I am certain MANY players would love to have at least one of them, Cryptic could make a lot of cash if they where selling them in a "hero ship Pack" at the C-Store.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
cryptic need to implement a system that allows balance competitive play one way or the other. so middling about with hero ships in the mid term ends up at wasted effort.
Not really, PvP isn't a popular Game mode at all. It would be a waste valuable dev time to "fix" it, IMO.
not to mention, you are just changin one system where players are forced into one set of ships to be competitive, to another one of your own preference, while still not actulally addressing a sensible goal of letting everyone be competitive, even if some players would enjoy seeing the iconics dominating.
No one would be "forced" to do anything, if the ships aren't OP.
Those ships only would be more canon, not perfectly canon.
No "i win Buttons" not OP BOFF layout, just ships that fall out of the common STO pattern, because they are different.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
PvP and PvE should be seperated into differnt games in the first place
its impossible to balence one without messing up the other
Just look at the mess we have right now and have always had
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
you are talking about specific 'iconic' ships being given privailage over others in their class. that is putting into the game a system that says "sure, you have a choice, you choose these or make life harder for yourself", when the game already does that. for example "you arent forced to fly escorts, its just easier if you do".
So where's the difference to how it is now?
The only difference would be that the Iconic ships would be the rulers in STO not Escorts anymore. (but the difference wouldn't be so blatant as the difference between Escorts and the rest as it is now).
So we would make STO a hero ship game instead of a Escort game... well it's a matter of taste IMO.
Not only that Escorts in STO are the best ships for PvE and PvP, my suggestions would make the "hero" ship only PvE rulers but leave PvP as it is now.
Btw. it wouldn't be limited to the iconic hero ships at all. Virtually every canon ships could be released as a PvE only version featuring a much more canon BOFF/Console layout, without even touching the PvP balance.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
EXACTLY the point.
swapping one lot of favouritism for another isnt tidying the mess, its just shifting it around.
which is just middling.
But it would make STO more trek IMO.
To be honest STO is so far from being considered canon or beliveable it doesn't matter anymore. Putting the Hero ship into unique positions would at least make STO feel more Trek.
And who knows, there could be more canon ships later.
All ships could be remade step by step, so at least a part of STO could be truely Star Trek.
I think that would be a "mess" i could live with, much better than having Escorts rule Star Trek.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
thats what i mean.
its replacing favouritism with favouritism.
your net gain from the effort is nothing and you manage to set the stage for the cycle to begin again and from reading archived posts its pretty clear that at one point cruisers where the favorites because escorts couldnt heal of mitegate damage enough.
Of course it's purely favourism.
It's favourism that brought me to play Star Trek Online in the first place.
Frankly, i favour a more canon Star trek game in exchange of the Escort jetfighter stuff Cryptic gave us.
Let's be honest, there can't be real balance among Star Trek ships, so yes i would rather have the Escort domination being replaced with cruiser (or better said Starship) domination. At least it would be more Star Trek as we know it. I think many people think the same thing but don't dare to say that, because "STO is a MMO" argument that comes from MMO players all the time.
But both things (Star Trek and MMO) don't have to exclude each other, nor they work especially well together.
So what's the sollution?
As i said, let's disconnect both, so this game can have both.
And i am strictly against reworking BOFF powers, i'd rather see some more added.
So then, after trying to read between the arguments about which TV/Film ship was better
Which in game Cruiser is the best to get then ?
Has anyone come to a conclusion ?
It totally depends on what you want to do.
Do you want to support and heal others? (Star Cruiser, maybe)
Or do you want to dish out some damage? (Assault cruiser Refit)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
So then, after trying to read between the arguments about which TV/Film ship was better
Which in game Cruiser is the best to get then ?
Has anyone come to a conclusion ?
Depends on what you want to do.
-The Odyssey is a great cruiser and can have multiple setups that enbale it to dish out damage, tank or heal dependant on the situation. It's the prefered cruiser for team healing by many players, although handles itself very well in any of the roles.
-The Exclesior and the assault cruiser (Regent/Sovereign) are considered to be the best tactical slanted cruisers, something this game obviously favors. Both are amazing cruisers that get the job done, although I prefer the Excelsior personally. These are the ships of choice by many Tac. captains that want to fly a cruiser rather than an escort.
-The fleet Ambassador Retrofit is one of my favourite cruisers to play with on my Sci. char. It's an amazing ship that can take a lot of damage, can carry a good variety of sci. abilities and can support and heal teammates.
Other than those there are the lockbox cruisers:
-The Galor which is an absolute beast IMHO, but you do need to get lucky or pay up a lot to get one.
-And the D'Kora which I consider to be one of the best cruisers in game, if not the best.
KDF side there are:
-The Bortasqu' - which some people hate to death, others love it. It's a unique type of ship to fly, but I do love my cruisers and the big Bortas is the best ship in STO for me. It hits like a runaway train.
-The Tor'kaht is considered to be the best and the most menacing Klingon battlecruiser by the majority of the KDF players. It can take damage, but dishing out DPS is where it really shines.
-The K'maj is a great battlecruiser for KDF players that want to play their cruisers differently than dishing out raw damage. Think fleet Ambassador with less hull, but better turn rate, cloak and ability do mount DHC. This one can support the team and blow up stuff while doing it.
Personally, my favourite choices are:
Fed: Excelsior.
KDF: Bortasqu'.
Lockbox: Galor.
EDIT: I excluded the Romulan faction because there I fly nothing but a T'Varo and their cruisers are friggin' huge even for my standards. I just can't deal with something that size on my screen. lol
Comments
No, and come to think of it, this can be partially the explanation of the Enterprise-E becomming a Sovereign class. The "D" was gone and they had a couple of Sovereign class starships just fresh out of the owen, ready to go. With the added value of being the technologically most advanced starship at the moment, it's easy to deduct why they made the "E" a Sovereign class.
Anyway, Starfleet wouldn't be without a flagship for several years because the starship design and production is an ongoing process, so I supose they already have the possible substitutes when a ship class slowly ages and becomes obsolete. For example, there were Excelsiors long before the Enterprise become an Excelsior class.
True, there was no clear canon statement of this or at least none that I can remeber of atm. However, the happenings throughout the show that involved the ships bearing the name "Enterprise" clearly portrayed her as the flagship. For ex:
Why would they send Kirk with his "A" to negotiate a historic agreement of peace with Gorkon and the Klingon Empire?
Why would there be such media coverage at the launch of the Enterprise-B, when there were Excelsiors flying for years before that?
Nah, like I said before - only the first paragraph of my post was directed as a reply to you. The rest was general talk in regard to the discussion in the last couple of pages. I know your posts and opinions, so I know better than to believe you think of Starfleet as a military organisation. You're one of the last people I'd expect that from.
No worries.
Well, you might be onto something, though personally when I first saw the Sovereign - the Constitution never came to mind. Just doesn't resemble it for me I guess. *shrugs*
However I believe their intention was to refresh the Enterprise with a new look, so they can create a bit more hype for the movies, sth. in a "Come see the new era of TNG movies with a completely new and awesome Enterprise!" kind of way.
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Nor do i understand why they made a sovereign the next enterprise, just because it was technically a bit more advanced at that time?
What if the most advanced ship would have been a Nova or Intrepid Class?
I hope you see my problem with that. In my opinion Starfleet should have made the next Eneterprise (-E) a Galaxy Class and give Picard and his fellows a Sovereign Class bearing another name.
Fact is we don't know.
There could be hundreds of ships doing similar missions all the time. they could have being assigned because of their experience witrh the Klingons.
Or they could have got that assignment because they where "volunteering"* for that mission.
*Spock did that, if you watch the movie.
The media presence at the maiden voyage of the -B could have been just because of the history of ships called Enterprise (let's not forget the NX-01).
There could have been thousands other reaqsons for this and that, fakt is the big D was the only Enterprise being designated as Starfleets Flagship.
(whatever that may mean, btw.)
Thanks
Maybe that was just my personal and purely subjective observation, but for me the Sovereign looks much less advanced that a GCS. Yeah, i know many will say now "hey it looks sleeker and faster!".
For me certain design elements of that ship don't look more advanced at all. Especially the oversized Nacelles and the huge bussard collectors look almost a bit retro for me.
The comparable huge Impuls engines don't look as if they where from the same century as the GCS.
There are many more things like the less fluid shape and the somehow artificially streched overall look of the ship that make it look odd to me. The huge nacelles but their fragile connection to the rest of the ship in contrast to the sturdy looking Engineering - Saucer connection look just strange IMO.
It looks as if someone from Kirks era who wanted to create a faster looking ship.
Something just isn't right, but i can't pinpoint it.
For me it's not only just the technical things that make it not a sucessor to the GCS, its design clearly is descending from the Excelsior but not the GCS.
So i think the idea of the Sovereign being a replacement to the Excelsior is much more appropriate on more than just one level.
But on the other hand i thing the Ambassador and Galaxy are much more likeable to have another deisgn line then the Excel/Sovereign.
I could imagine that somewhen in the late 23rd/beginning 24th century, Starfleet decided they needed two types of heavy ships.
One being a sturd and mass produceable while the another one being a much more heavy and bigger but also more expensive shipclass. Maybe with the withdrawal of the Constitution class from service and the extension of federation territory in the mean time they needed to difference the fleet somehow.
The mass produced line of ships being represented by the Excelsior and other ships like the Cheyenne and others for more that a hundred years now is going to be replaced by the Sovereign and Akira.
The Ambassador which was designed later than the Excelsior served more like a heavy Version of the previous one, but was replaced by the GCS, maybe because it was too small for the requested mission profile. So they decided to start the Nebula and Galaxy Class project. Both ship types have their purpose IMO.
single canon are not effective enought and BO3 alone is not that good too, i was more thinking of BO2 and attack pattern delta or omega with an double auxtobat build with leech console, batterie if needed, and red matter capacitor.
here you got something that can kick especially with a tact captain.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Kirk was a Flag Officer of the Fleet.
As was Picard.
I do not know about John or Rachel.
With Kirk or Picard, any ship that they were on was possible of being a flagship should it be called for.
The Enterprise is a Flagship name.
It is the face for the UFP. Similar in a way that Micheal Jordan was the face of the NBA.
But that doesn't mean that there needs to be an Enterprise either.
Think between Enterprise C and D. There was a significant amount of time that passed after the destruction of the C.
The Fleet and the UFP do not "need" the Enterprise.
But when you can point at a single vessel with such a lineage as the Enterprise to other species, be they friend or foe, as a representation of your ideals and beliefs as an entity.
That is pretty powerful.
As for the Sovereign being a replacement for the Excelsior.
We've been pointing that out for years.
Rick Sternbach mentioned that she was a replacement for the Excelsior. Which filled the role of the workhorse in the Fleet.
Lol, precisely :P;)
Either way you go, you are still not going to be threatening enough with a cruiser to be the primary, secondary or tertiary target in a group of five if the group is predominated by escorts.
Weight distribution is great, but some of the better handling sports cars are not mid-engined or 50/50 distribution biased, but front engine and somewhat nose heavy.
Your statement about "stretched out turning" isnt so much truth, most "sports cars" these days have a wheelbase that is as long, if not longer, than the typical midsize sedan.
And I can make my Galaxy Class ships turn on a dime just like in the show two, its called EPTE and Evasive. We never see the Galaxy doing multiple turns in a sequence so why arent they doing the same on the show?
As far as the Galaxy's "large beam array", I dont see how having more emitters is more useful for a larger energy blast than having a larger capacitor network. If the beam array was shooting many different shots at once , not just one big one, massive numbers of emitters make sense, but for a large blast, a larger capacitor would work better for what we saw on TNG.
Sov visually is the sucessor to the Excelsior however in role I don't beleive so. That went to Akira with visually succeeds Miranda and Nebula. Though Nebula still as a role.
Starfleet has multiple flagships for their numbers of admirals and fleets. They as far as we know never had a fleet wide flagship till E-D
Call it the anti Borg Mk-II refit as seen in the Series
Release it in the Fed reinforcement duty officer pack at the current drop rate chance as the Monbosh has. Offer it in the lobi store for 800 lobi
Very little work and you make everyone happy cryptic and make tons of money
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
the point of this is not to reach the dps consistency and reliability of an escort, that is not possible in a normal cruiser in fed camp, so that is not the goal.
the point is to not be just a punchbag.
and bielieve me, when anyone will found himself in front of your DBB buff with tactical fleet, tactical team, FOMM, attack pattern alpha and omega/delta, he better be prepare to it, especially if his hull and shield have already suffer damage.
on top of that if you have the double tap BO build with the romulan beam array, you will have a combo that can be pretty much lethal to anyone.
anyone is free to play as he like, however you have to known that using the exelsior with an engineer is a misuse of it tactical potential wich will make all the difference between him and a simple assault cruiser.
right now you have the tanking abilitie that are very close to an assault cruiser or galaxy but you paid the price by beeing almost as toothless as they are, wich in the end give you the role of the punchbag in a team.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Each phaser strip consists of a big amount of little single emitters. They are connected in series, the more are connnected in the stronger the blast.
So that means the the longer the phaser strip the stronger the whole array.
Every single phaser emitters can be replaced with a newer more up to date model very easily. So the argument the Sov had stronger phasers cannot be true, because the GCS still has the longer arrays, and more space for power generation (bigger M/A Reactor, which can also be replaced with newer models).
The biggest advantage of the GCS is it's modularity. It has enough space to carry much bigger equipment than any other (canon) Starfleet ship, it is also optimized to easily replace every part of equipment that is installed.
It could be worse.
I don't understand why every ship has to have a unique BOFF layout anyway. The different ships stats would make the ship unique regardless.
If i had to decide in that case, i would give the GCS a modified D'Deridex BOFF layout.
but instead of having a ensign tac and a ensign uni, i would give her a Lt. Engineering. Console Layout could be the same as the D'D.
But of course dontdrunkimshoots enhanced exploration cruiser retrofit 3 pack would be the best sollution.
Crpytic could release some PvE only ships.
No pvp only ships and no change to BOFF powers.
Just some canon ships that are banned from PvP.
They wouldn't be OP or contain a "i win button" but their flexible BOFF /Console Layout would contradict to current PvP balance.
- Like Starfleet ships having more Uni Stations.
- KDF ships could have a build-in Go down fighting mechanic...
- Cruisers having much heavier Weapons than current STO Cruisers. (similar to "real" treks "cruisers" which should be called "Starships" btw).
- Escorts could be much heavier armored similar to the "real" defiant.
... and so on.These only where some "hero" ships that are iconic to Star Trek like the Intrepid, Galaxy Class, and Defiant. These where exceptions for the Fans or "fun" ships if you want to call them that way. They where not allowed to enter PvP fights.
But everyone could earn them through the reputation store (OMEGA or MACO for example).
I am certain MANY players would love to have at least one of them, Cryptic could make a lot of cash if they where selling them in a "hero ship Pack" at the C-Store.
Not if the devs make it clear that these are one time exceptions.
Not really, PvP isn't a popular Game mode at all. It would be a waste valuable dev time to "fix" it, IMO.
No one would be "forced" to do anything, if the ships aren't OP.
Those ships only would be more canon, not perfectly canon.
No "i win Buttons" not OP BOFF layout, just ships that fall out of the common STO pattern, because they are different.
its impossible to balence one without messing up the other
Just look at the mess we have right now and have always had
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The only difference would be that the Iconic ships would be the rulers in STO not Escorts anymore. (but the difference wouldn't be so blatant as the difference between Escorts and the rest as it is now).
So we would make STO a hero ship game instead of a Escort game... well it's a matter of taste IMO.
Not only that Escorts in STO are the best ships for PvE and PvP, my suggestions would make the "hero" ship only PvE rulers but leave PvP as it is now.
Btw. it wouldn't be limited to the iconic hero ships at all. Virtually every canon ships could be released as a PvE only version featuring a much more canon BOFF/Console layout, without even touching the PvP balance.
To be honest STO is so far from being considered canon or beliveable it doesn't matter anymore. Putting the Hero ship into unique positions would at least make STO feel more Trek.
And who knows, there could be more canon ships later.
All ships could be remade step by step, so at least a part of STO could be truely Star Trek.
I think that would be a "mess" i could live with, much better than having Escorts rule Star Trek.
Which in game Cruiser is the best to get then ?
Has anyone come to a conclusion ?
It's favourism that brought me to play Star Trek Online in the first place.
Frankly, i favour a more canon Star trek game in exchange of the Escort jetfighter stuff Cryptic gave us.
Let's be honest, there can't be real balance among Star Trek ships, so yes i would rather have the Escort domination being replaced with cruiser (or better said Starship) domination. At least it would be more Star Trek as we know it. I think many people think the same thing but don't dare to say that, because "STO is a MMO" argument that comes from MMO players all the time.
But both things (Star Trek and MMO) don't have to exclude each other, nor they work especially well together.
So what's the sollution?
As i said, let's disconnect both, so this game can have both.
And i am strictly against reworking BOFF powers, i'd rather see some more added.
It totally depends on what you want to do.
Do you want to support and heal others? (Star Cruiser, maybe)
Or do you want to dish out some damage? (Assault cruiser Refit)
Depends on what you want to do.
-The Odyssey is a great cruiser and can have multiple setups that enbale it to dish out damage, tank or heal dependant on the situation. It's the prefered cruiser for team healing by many players, although handles itself very well in any of the roles.
-The Exclesior and the assault cruiser (Regent/Sovereign) are considered to be the best tactical slanted cruisers, something this game obviously favors. Both are amazing cruisers that get the job done, although I prefer the Excelsior personally. These are the ships of choice by many Tac. captains that want to fly a cruiser rather than an escort.
-The fleet Ambassador Retrofit is one of my favourite cruisers to play with on my Sci. char. It's an amazing ship that can take a lot of damage, can carry a good variety of sci. abilities and can support and heal teammates.
Other than those there are the lockbox cruisers:
-The Galor which is an absolute beast IMHO, but you do need to get lucky or pay up a lot to get one.
-And the D'Kora which I consider to be one of the best cruisers in game, if not the best.
KDF side there are:
-The Bortasqu' - which some people hate to death, others love it. It's a unique type of ship to fly, but I do love my cruisers and the big Bortas is the best ship in STO for me. It hits like a runaway train.
-The Tor'kaht is considered to be the best and the most menacing Klingon battlecruiser by the majority of the KDF players. It can take damage, but dishing out DPS is where it really shines.
-The K'maj is a great battlecruiser for KDF players that want to play their cruisers differently than dishing out raw damage. Think fleet Ambassador with less hull, but better turn rate, cloak and ability do mount DHC. This one can support the team and blow up stuff while doing it.
Personally, my favourite choices are:
Fed: Excelsior.
KDF: Bortasqu'.
Lockbox: Galor.
EDIT: I excluded the Romulan faction because there I fly nothing but a T'Varo and their cruisers are friggin' huge even for my standards. I just can't deal with something that size on my screen. lol
I do like a more tactical fight though , So probably a Cruiser with a punch