(just saying - you guys want to claim Galaxy performance in Star Trek franchise canon; you gotta take tjhe good with the bad and come up with a ship that fits)
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Personally I'd like to see both the Galaxy R and X redone into their own roles.
Gal-x
Consoles
4 eng
1 science
4 Tac
Bo layout
Com engineer or Com Tac - they did it for breen ship
Lt com Tac Lt com eng
Lt Tac Lt Tac
Lt eng Lt Eng
Ens Sci Ens Science
Gal R
Bo Layout
3 eng
3 Sci
3 Tac
Bo Layout
Com Eng
Lt com Sci
Lt Com Tac
Lt Eng
Keep stats same unless for some reasons the devs wake up and see cruisers in general need a turn boost or the Turn console needs to be a percent or so many degree (think its 35 percent so make it say 2.5 degrees) whichever is greater.
Fleet version get the usual upgrades of plus one console. X gets another Tac to compete with bortas. R would get another Eng most likely. Plus r get the Lt Eng made Lt universal in fleet version.
Even though I skim-read this, for the majority of the passage, I agree with the proposals here. Cryptic not only botched the look of the Galaxy class, but also the stats.
The excess Universal slots are intriguing, and offer a lot of flexibility, similar to the many roles the Enterprise-D was capable of fulfilling in the show. We'll see what happens - it is radical, and something doesn't feel right about all those Universal seats, but I'll support it.
Actually, the Galaxy class didn't fill many roles in the series. It filled primarily a Science and exploration role, but it was only mediocre in combat capabilities (note how quickly it was replaced for combat duty by other ships). It was very good at what it did, but it was primarily a peacetime ship. In the battles where we saw them used in fleet combat, they performed pretty much the same as other ships beside them (including Miranda-class). Not surprising, given that the ships capabilities were focused elsewhere.
I think the reason the Universal slots feels wrong is that there isn't a ship in the game with three Universal stations and only Engineering set stations. The actual problem is that the Galaxy could be set up to be a combat ship (with 2 Lt and 1 Ens Tac stations) as well as a full Engineering capability (1 Comm and 1 Lt Com Eng), the equal of or better than the Regent class, an upgrade of the ship that supposedly replaced the Galaxy class in the role of combat cruiser.
However, I'm sure the Devs could repossess the Galaxy-R s people already own, refund the 2000 Z-points for the old ships, and force them to pay the additional 500 Z-points for a new version (you don't get parity with the top ships without paying the same). That would put the ship on the level of the top-teir ships in the game, and so the Universal layout wouldn't be out of place.
My general Idea is there are many posts about how cruisers are UP, and need help, And refrences to "Escourt on line" Cruiser have a tanking role yes, are they ment to deal as much damage as a Escourt no. So my Suggestion/Idea would be to boost the cruisers offence and lower the Escourts defence. But Escourt Captians would never go for that. So What the Cruiser needs is a Beam ability that can be chained for really scary damage like escourts can. I have a Fleet MVAE, Fleet Defiant and Jem Bug and have learned how to really chain abilitys to my CRF3 to one shot noobs and make pro's nervious. So a cruiser needs a Beam skill that can chain BO3, Similar to an attack pattern where with this skill plus BO3 you could strip a facing shield and dig deep into the Hull like a good escourt can. Just give cruise a nice spike damage ability like "Focus Beam Arrays" Chain with EPTW with Direct energy Mod with BO3. Hell they already have the hyperflux with the experamental Romulan beam array. Hell make hyperflux a skill that added with what i said before can give beam arrays and cruisers some teeth.
Actually, the Galaxy class didn't fill many roles in the series. It filled primarily a Science and exploration role, but it was only mediocre in combat capabilities (note how quickly it was replaced for combat duty by other ships). It was very good at what it did, but it was primarily a peacetime ship. In the battles where we saw them used in fleet combat, they performed pretty much the same as other ships beside them (including Miranda-class). Not surprising, given that the ships capabilities were focused elsewhere.
I think the reason the Universal slots feels wrong is that there isn't a ship in the game with three Universal stations and only Engineering set stations. The actual problem is that the Galaxy could be set up to be a combat ship (with 2 Lt and 1 Ens Tac stations) as well as a full Engineering capability (1 Comm and 1 Lt Com Eng), the equal of or better than the Regent class, an upgrade of the ship that supposedly replaced the Galaxy class in the role of combat cruiser.
However, I'm sure the Devs could repossess the Galaxy-R s people already own, refund the 2000 Z-points for the old ships, and force them to pay the additional 500 Z-points for a new version (you don't get parity with the top ships without paying the same). That would put the ship on the level of the top-teir ships in the game, and so the Universal layout wouldn't be out of place.
True, the Galaxy-class was initially an explorer. However, the flagship of the Federation can't go around without some muscle, which was displayed in numerous encounters with the Borg, Romulans, Klingons, etc. Sure, the ship sucks by itself against three true combat ships, but that's to be expected.
And yes, that's probably why it feels wrong. Too many Universals. However, that flexibility allows you to choose between a true tanking and a 50% tank, 50% damage emphasis role, which is one of the characteristics of the Galaxy-class - its versatility.
And no, that C-Store arrangement is not acceptable. Try upgrading the ships for existing owners as a bonus for buying the ship in the first place - and then raise the price once the stat changes have been implemented.
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That "both ends of the saucer into a heavy beam" is the phaser effect that is supposed to be in this game in the first place. That's the standard shipboard phaser.
However, the ability to use an innate Beam Overload III or something would be interesting.
Indeed. Prior to the Galaxy-class, Federation phasers were fired from banks, which were often globular turrets, installed in pairs (usually on the rectangular areas on the saucer sections of Miranda, Excelsior, Enterprise, and other ships of that era). When the Galaxy-class came about, a ring of emitters that all of the phasers of a ship would use to generate and aim their beams were installed.
So, rather than have the phaser fire directly from the bank, the energy was fed into the array ring, where it would travel from the phaser to the bearing it was to fire from, and then exit the ring at that point (which is why the phaser energy was seen travelling around the ring prior to being fired). The main advantage of this system was that the phaser banks no longer had to worry about nearly so many blindspots in the hull, though the total firepower was still about the same. Also, fewer phasers were required to produce the same level of protection for the ship, saving space and mass for other concerns (living space, science facilities, ect).
Thus, the phasers fired from the Galaxy's arrays were no stronger than those that would have fired from an Excelsior's banks (assuming the same level of phasers were installed). It's just that they had wider firing arcs and took fewer phaser equipment to do the same job (though that also had problems in battle conditions, where having fewer phasers meant losing them quicker).
That "both ends of the saucer into a heavy beam" is the phaser effect that is supposed to be in this game in the first place. That's the standard shipboard phaser.
However, the ability to use an innate Beam Overload III or something would be interesting.
Indeed. Prior to the Galaxy-class, Federation phasers were fired from banks, which were often globular turrets, installed in pairs (usually on the rectangular areas on the saucer sections of Miranda, Excelsior, Enterprise, and other ships of that era). When the Galaxy-class came about, a ring of emitters that all of the phasers of a ship would use to generate and aim their beams were installed.
So, rather than have the phaser fire directly from the bank, the energy was fed into the array ring, where it would travel from the phaser to the bearing it was to fire from, and then exit the ring at that point (which is why the phaser energy was seen travelling around the ring prior to being fired). The main advantage of this system was that the phaser banks no longer had to worry about nearly so many blindspots in the hull, though the total firepower was still about the same. Also, fewer phasers were required to produce the same level of protection for the ship, saving space and mass for other concerns (living space, science facilities, ect).
Thus, the phasers fired from the Galaxy's arrays were no stronger than those that would have fired from an Excelsior's banks. It's just that they had wider firing arcs and took fewer phaser equipment to do the same job (though that also had problems in battle conditions, where having fewer phasers meant losing them quicker).
Essentially what I was saying, but in full detail.
(When you've used the TNG:TM as a book report and had to summarize the ship components, you learn to abbreviate for simplicity)
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(just saying - you guys want to claim Galaxy performance in Star Trek franchise canon; you gotta take tjhe good with the bad and come up with a ship that fits)
Fighting an unknown enemy that is willing to blow themselves up to take you out is a hard thing to do. Not really something that shows the galaxy in the best light I'll admit. But I'd say that any ship would fair poorly if the other guys don't care if the die or not.
sad thing is, you'd think a ship this size in the galaxy, would have more consoles, more boffs slots, and power to divert into which ever system,... than say an escort?
All valid points but that is some other ship, not the Galaxy, the Galaxy is effectively a battleship and an old flagship of the Federation, during the Dominion war, they could dish out devastating damage so again Cryptic tries to rewrite Star Trek lore.
The Galaxy is NOT a tank, anymore then the Intrepid is NOT a Science Vessel
Actually, I would think the Galaxy ships we see in DS9 during the Dominion war are war versions of the regular ship, probably refitted back to regular models after the widespread distribution of Sovereigns. In fact, I would say the Galaxy as it is portrayed in STO fits more the ship we saw in TNG.
When did it ever show any amount of considerable firepower? The only times it totally overpowered anything where when it was facing a technologically inferior ship, any old ship of the week that wasn't sporting incredibly outdated tech would find a way to incapacitate, neutralize, or outright totally outgun and overpower the Enterprize . That said you would always see it take a BEATING and keep going. So there you have it, its a tank's tank.
In fact, I would say the Galaxy as it is portrayed in STO fits more the ship we saw in TNG.
But unlike DS9, we saw no major battles in TNG. The Enterprise was overwhelmingly based in exploration duties. Bear in mind that the timelines of DS9 and TNG do overlap, so if there was a Galaxy refit class sent into the Dominion War, it would not have been a huge step in sophistication.
Indeed. Prior to the Galaxy-class, Federation phasers were fired from banks, which were often globular turrets, installed in pairs (usually on the rectangular areas on the saucer sections of Miranda, Excelsior, Enterprise, and other ships of that era). When the Galaxy-class came about, a ring of emitters that all of the phasers of a ship would use to generate and aim their beams were installed.
So, rather than have the phaser fire directly from the bank, the energy was fed into the array ring, where it would travel from the phaser to the bearing it was to fire from, and then exit the ring at that point (which is why the phaser energy was seen travelling around the ring prior to being fired). The main advantage of this system was that the phaser banks no longer had to worry about nearly so many blindspots in the hull, though the total firepower was still about the same. Also, fewer phasers were required to produce the same level of protection for the ship, saving space and mass for other concerns (living space, science facilities, ect).
Thus, the phasers fired from the Galaxy's arrays were no stronger than those that would have fired from an Excelsior's banks (assuming the same level of phasers were installed). It's just that they had wider firing arcs and took fewer phaser equipment to do the same job (though that also had problems in battle conditions, where having fewer phasers meant losing them quicker).
this is incorrect. there are 200 emitters in the galaxy class's largest dorsal array, and each of them is separately charged and holds its own energy. the effect you see on screen is the energy in each emitter sequentially being passed down the array to the point were it is fired. thus the number of emitters in an array, and how long it is, is THE determination factor for how powerful an arrays best shot could be.
nothing in cannon can beat a galaxy's per shot phaser firepower, and it didn't exactly have a slow rate of fire. also its torpedo launchers can launch 10 torps in a single burst, and it can quite possibly fire several bursts like that in quick succession. the 2 launchers it has are enormous, it doesn't need more then 2 to out gun nearly anything.
through all the techno babel about phasers in the tech manual, it somewhat clearly states that thats how array phasers work. this is all clearly evident in that video that was posted, were the phasers made craters the size of the saucer section in the borg cube, and the torp rate of fire against that ship with the 3 pronged electric attack.
the generations fight and the odyssey fight were battles that were poorly choreographed that had the objective of shooting down a galaxy. the bop should have gotten 1 shot by that first phaser shot, and the bug ships shields were completely impervious to phaser fire wile their shields were complexity unable to stop their polaron weapons, they say exactly that durring the battle. see, they built something as big and powerful as a galaxy to be the hero ship, but all they could do over and over is write underdog stories for it. it was poorly served by all the times it lost when it shouldn't have in the series and movies.
this is incorrect. there are 200 emitters in the galaxy class's largest dorsal array, and each of them is separately charged and holds its own energy. the effect you see on screen is the energy in each emitter sequentially being passed down the array to the point were it is fired. thus the number of emitters in an array, and how long it is, is THE determination factor for how powerful an arrays best shot could be.
nothing in cannon can beat a galaxy's per shot phaser firepower, and it didn't exactly have a slow rate of fire. also its torpedo launchers can launch 10 torps in a single burst, and it can quite possibly fire several bursts like that in quick succession. the 2 launchers it has are enormous, it doesn't need more then 2 to out gun nearly anything.
through all the techno babel about phasers in the tech manual, it somewhat clearly states that thats how array phasers work. this is all clearly evident in that video that was posted, were the phasers made craters the size of the saucer section in the borg cube, and the torp rate of fire against that ship with the 3 pronged electric attack.
the generations fight and the odyssey fight were battles that were poorly choreographed that had the objective of shooting down a galaxy. the bop should have gotten 1 shot by that first phaser shot, and the bug ships shields were completely impervious to phaser fire wile their shields were complexity unable to stop their polaron weapons, they say exactly that durring the battle. see, they built something as big and powerful as a galaxy to be the hero ship, but all they could do over and over is write underdog stories for it. it was poorly served by all the times it lost when it shouldn't have in the series and movies.
All you can do is make excuses for direct comparisons and concrete evidence we have for pulse phasers and normal ones. Isn't it getting a little old?
5 weapons front, 3 weapons aft (Odd I know, but I like it)
4/3/3 console setup
3-piece set gear
Console universal - saucer separation (would reduce the cooldown tho) Heavy beam array - lower range, less accurate, more dmg, less hits per volley beam array Dual Photon torpedo tube- would work like omage torp with charges, 5 charges, 2 photons each.
Set bonuses, similar to romulan set.
Make it so !
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Dontdrunkimshoot is correct. Every phaser emitter on the galaxy can shoot. I checked it with its technical manual.
I am not happy with the performance of the ship too compared to other similar line. At the mean time, I am flying a Dominion ship :-( so the Galaxy ship remains a monument in the dry dock.
The ship can be as good or as bad as the writers need it to be for the purpose of the episode. I think you want your Galaxy to be the same glorious flagship you saw in the series, not the USS Odyssey (Galaxy Class) or countless others like her which were dispatched by the Dominion with ease.
Your first point is right. Using the TV shows, or films, as a means to show how powerful or weak the ships are is futile. The USS Odyssey may have been destroyed by the Dominion at the end of season two with "ease", but the USS Defiant was just as easily overwhelmed by them in the very next episode.
Both ships were in the same position of having no shields, though the Defiant's ablative hull armor was seemingly ineffective to protect her in this instance. Going by the timeframe of both battles, the USS Odyssey lasted longer than the Defiant, and was only defeated because the Jem'Hadar rammed her.
However there doesn't appear to be any other Galaxy-class starships destroyed on screen in a straight fight with the Dominion during the rest of the war; I'd say that the Second Batte of Chin'toka is exempt due to the general defeat of every allied ship in that battle. The USS Galaxy, seen taking heavy damage here, is still around by the time of the film "Nemesis" as it is listed among the ships that the Enterprise is trying to reach at the end of the film.
Of course this is all pointless willy waving in the end.
(just saying - you guys want to claim Galaxy performance in Star Trek franchise canon; you gotta take tjhe good with the bad and come up with a ship that fits)
in this episode the federation wasn't prepared for the phase polaron weapons that dominion use, it just go directly to the hull.
if we transpose this into the game, it's make 3 bug ship against a exploration cruiser without shield, supported by 3 runabout also without shield, i wonder how long ANY captain in this game would hold that!
and this is a purposed episode, at that time the galaxy class was still the flagship of the federation, the iconic representation of the federation firepower.
so this is the scenario intention,let get him fight against the dominion and let his TRIBBLE kick so that the audience would think " wow, this new enemi, the dominion, is no joke, even the best ship of the federation isn't capable to defend himself against them!"
so, clearly a unfair comparison to said the least.
5 weapons front, 3 weapons aft (Odd I know, but I like it)
4/3/3 console setup
3-piece set gear
Console universal - saucer separation (would reduce the cooldown tho)
Heavy beam array - lower range, less accurate, more dmg, less hits per volley beam array
Dual Photon torpedo tube - would work like omage torp with charges, 5 charges, 2 photons each.
Set bonuses, similar to romulan set.
Make it so !
well, i can't said about the 3 pieces gear, i haven't take it much thaught, but your BO layout is very good, i love it.
this would give the exploration cruiser a real purpose than beeing a non good at anything ship.
when look closely, this setup make this ship more efficient than the galaxy x for firepower, well done
The problem is that the Odyssey was unprepared for the Dominion attack, not to mention that its Captain was an arrogant prick. The show producers even admitted that the Odyssey was chosen to be destroyed because the Galaxy Class had been a representation of the Engineering power of Starfleet and they wanted to show how far the Dominion were willing to go.
Now during the Dominion war, the Galaxy Class ships were refitted like any other vessel to include more firepower (the PROPER "Venture Refit" with Phaser Arrays on the Nacelles) and shields that included a resistance to Dominion attacks from data provided from the Runabouts following the Odyssey and the USS Defiant's first encounter with the Dominion.
The Galaxy is an extremely adaptable design in the series, functioning as an Exploration and Tactical Vessel in both TNG and DS9. Remember that the Enterprise was flagship of a fleet in both "Redemption" and "Chain of Command". The Odyssey incident highlighted one of the structural weaknesses of the Galaxy Class which was insufficient armor on the neck, which was corrected in the batch of ships released for the Dominion War.
Now the game should reflect the Galaxy's versatility as both a command, battleship and exploration vessel. Ideally the ship should have all Universal Console slots.
The problem is that the Odyssey was unprepared for the Dominion attack, not to mention that its Captain was an arrogant prick. The show producers even admitted that the Odyssey was chosen to be destroyed because the Galaxy Class had been a representation of the Engineering power of Starfleet and they wanted to show how far the Dominion were willing to go.
Now during the Dominion war, the Galaxy Class ships were refitted like any other vessel to include more firepower (the PROPER "Venture Refit" with Phaser Arrays on the Nacelles) and shields that included a resistance to Dominion attacks from data provided from the Runabouts following the Odyssey and the USS Defiant's first encounter with the Dominion.
The Galaxy is an extremely adaptable design in the series, functioning as an Exploration and Tactical Vessel in both TNG and DS9. Remember that the Enterprise was flagship of a fleet in both "Redemption" and "Chain of Command". The Odyssey incident highlighted one of the structural weaknesses of the Galaxy Class which was insufficient armor on the neck, which was corrected in the batch of ships released for the Dominion War.
Now the game should reflect the Galaxy's versatility as both a command, battleship and exploration vessel. Ideally the ship should have all Universal Console slots.
It's funny how important the role of flagship is to you until the sovereign takes it over.
The writers wanting to blow up a galaxy does not lessen the importance of that battle. It in fact cements the occurrence as a technological marker. With all it's shield power being put into weapons the odyssey couldn't even cause an explosion on a bug, the defiant destroys bugs in one burst of pulse phasers. Quantum torpedo volleys destroyed chel grets in seconds, the galaxy had neither of these weapons.
Things changed in star fleet once the Borg came, they were allowed to make warships for the first time and the effects were vast and felt all over. The sovereign was covered in torpedo launchers, as was the Akira class. Almost all of the steamrunner and nova class phaser arrays are small. The size issue was clearly dealt with.
Also I'd love some canon info on the venture refit that does anything to actual power levels instead of adding a few arrays and maybe a shuttle bay.
Well, Vor'chas were also blowing left and right when JHAS rammed them. On the other side not single Galaxy was destroyed after Odyssey in the war and we saw them surviving hit that were ripping Excelsiors, Akiras and anything else (bar Defiant and D'Deridexes) apart.
In the only battle where we could see Galaxies going all out in the war it was during retake of DS9 and then those ships were literally pushing Galors aside with their phaser beams.
I would say that assumption about Galaxies being buffed during war to be more offensive ships is accurate. We never saw Sovereign fighting against Dominion so it would be hard to say what would happen. OTOH Valiant (the second Defiant class) was easily destroyed by Dominion dreadnaught and killing JHASes was taking him quite long (longer then in case of Siskos Defiant).
OTOH Valiant (the second Defiant class) was easily destroyed by Dominion dreadnaught and killing JHASes was taking him quite long (longer then in case of Siskos Defiant).
Plot power in work.
The valiant was an unfinished ship manned by cadets incapable of achieving warp 3. Even then it destroyed the bug with ease in moments.
But unlike DS9, we saw no major battles in TNG. The Enterprise was overwhelmingly based in exploration duties. Bear in mind that the timelines of DS9 and TNG do overlap, so if there was a Galaxy refit class sent into the Dominion War, it would not have been a huge step in sophistication.
A proper war refit of a Galaxy should be pretty easy to make, just remove all the unnecessary labs and fill that space with more energy generators for doubled up shield and phaser emitters. Maybe paint some racing stripes down the sides of the nacelles to make it go faster too...
Personally I would not be against changing the Galaxy or at least the Galaxy-X into a more usefull ship given the current game. Sadly the Galaxy got stuck as the engineering ship of a line of engineering ships.
You will notice most newer cruisers have, or can have, a more tactical focus, probably a lesson they learned from the fiasco the Galaxy has become. Problem is, which niche do they fit it in? They already have several tac focused cruisers, perhaps the a Galaxy-R-R can be made that has a more balanced focus? Maybe basing it off the Assault cruiser design with one less turning and its lt eng turned into a lt. sci? Or at least make the Galaxy-X a copy of one of the better KDF battlecruisers in terms of design?
It should be noted that the early success of the Dominion forces were due mostly to the fact that the Dominion had extensive information on Starfleet, including the defenses and weaponry carried by Starfleet ships, while the Federation had none on what they faced. The Dominion tailored their own equipment for optimal effectiveness against those systems, which allowed them to do things that would normally be impossible (look at what knowing things like that allowed a BoP to do to a Galaxy-Class ship in Generations, and you get an idea how much an advantage such information can be). Once the Federation realized the compromise of their classified information, changed it, and then also gained information on the Dominion's own capabilities, the confrontations between the ships of each were much more along the lines one would expect.
And Galaxy-class -were- extremely durable, mainly because they were so large. Damage that would destroy a Miranda and cripple an Excelsior would severely damage a Galaxy, but it could still function well enough to withdraw to a base for repair. Also, at the time of the Dominion War, the Excelsior class outnumbered the Galaxy class in Starfleet, and took on the more dangerous positions in the battlefleets. That also meant the Excelsiors took considerably more attrition losses, and left the Galaxy-class the main Starfleet ship afterwards merely because there were so few Excelsiors in working order by that time.
Well, Vor'chas were also blowing left and right when JHAS rammed them. On the other side not single Galaxy was destroyed after Odyssey in the war and we saw them surviving hit that were ripping Excelsiors, Akiras and anything else (bar Defiant and D'Deridexes) apart.
In the only battle where we could see Galaxies going all out in the war it was during retake of DS9 and then those ships were literally pushing Galors aside with their phaser beams.
I would say that assumption about Galaxies being buffed during war to be more offensive ships is accurate. We never saw Sovereign fighting against Dominion so it would be hard to say what would happen. OTOH Valiant (the second Defiant class) was easily destroyed by Dominion dreadnaught and killing JHASes was taking him quite long (longer then in case of Siskos Defiant).
Plot power in work.
It's certainly true the Galaxy class ships we saw later were a whole lot tougher.
They certainly didn't just blow up like many other ships did and could hold their own even though they had the distinct disadvange of being litte more than gloified extras to the allmighty Defiant at that point.
IMO the destrcution of a Galaxy class ship during the first enocounter with the Dominion was an application of the so-called "Worf-Effect", which means the author/director wants to show stuff just got serious so the big tough fellow is smacked down hard. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect
This also pretty much shows the Galaxy class was THAT big tough fellow of her era.
However you might want to reconsider the line about no Galaxy ever getting lost after "The Jem'Hadar".
I've heard this numerous times before and it's probably one of this misconceptions that, once it gets tossed around often enough, is never questioned afterwards.
The destruction of an entire fleet along with the Defiant in "The Changing Face of Evil" was pretty much the application of the same method on a larger scale and to be fair, the Galaxy class ships were no exception in this situation.
I support any effort on the part of Cryptic to discourage players from flying that albatross or any of its derivatives. (Also not a fan of that hideous looking 1000 day veteran reward.)
I'm not comparing it with Oddy but with Excelsior. It deserves a Lt Cmdr tactical more than the Excelsior. It's a newer ship and should be the one to deserve that BO layout, atleast in its Fleet version.
The rest I feel is fine with Galaxy, I use one myself despite of all the short coming and despite me owning a Regent as well. I just love the Galaxy and will continue to use it, none-the-less I hope that this matter gets looked into and fixed.
It is a modern ship still, atleast more than the Excelsior.
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Comments
Of coourse you 24th century fans always seem to forget this Galaxy Class ship:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Dyttwwrbdyk#t=122s
(just saying - you guys want to claim Galaxy performance in Star Trek franchise canon; you gotta take tjhe good with the bad and come up with a ship that fits)
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Gal-x
Consoles
4 eng
1 science
4 Tac
Bo layout
Com engineer or Com Tac - they did it for breen ship
Lt com Tac Lt com eng
Lt Tac Lt Tac
Lt eng Lt Eng
Ens Sci Ens Science
Gal R
Bo Layout
3 eng
3 Sci
3 Tac
Bo Layout
Com Eng
Lt com Sci
Lt Com Tac
Lt Eng
Keep stats same unless for some reasons the devs wake up and see cruisers in general need a turn boost or the Turn console needs to be a percent or so many degree (think its 35 percent so make it say 2.5 degrees) whichever is greater.
Fleet version get the usual upgrades of plus one console. X gets another Tac to compete with bortas. R would get another Eng most likely. Plus r get the Lt Eng made Lt universal in fleet version.
Actually, the Galaxy class didn't fill many roles in the series. It filled primarily a Science and exploration role, but it was only mediocre in combat capabilities (note how quickly it was replaced for combat duty by other ships). It was very good at what it did, but it was primarily a peacetime ship. In the battles where we saw them used in fleet combat, they performed pretty much the same as other ships beside them (including Miranda-class). Not surprising, given that the ships capabilities were focused elsewhere.
I think the reason the Universal slots feels wrong is that there isn't a ship in the game with three Universal stations and only Engineering set stations. The actual problem is that the Galaxy could be set up to be a combat ship (with 2 Lt and 1 Ens Tac stations) as well as a full Engineering capability (1 Comm and 1 Lt Com Eng), the equal of or better than the Regent class, an upgrade of the ship that supposedly replaced the Galaxy class in the role of combat cruiser.
However, I'm sure the Devs could repossess the Galaxy-R s people already own, refund the 2000 Z-points for the old ships, and force them to pay the additional 500 Z-points for a new version (you don't get parity with the top ships without paying the same). That would put the ship on the level of the top-teir ships in the game, and so the Universal layout wouldn't be out of place.
True, the Galaxy-class was initially an explorer. However, the flagship of the Federation can't go around without some muscle, which was displayed in numerous encounters with the Borg, Romulans, Klingons, etc. Sure, the ship sucks by itself against three true combat ships, but that's to be expected.
And yes, that's probably why it feels wrong. Too many Universals. However, that flexibility allows you to choose between a true tanking and a 50% tank, 50% damage emphasis role, which is one of the characteristics of the Galaxy-class - its versatility.
And no, that C-Store arrangement is not acceptable. Try upgrading the ships for existing owners as a bonus for buying the ship in the first place - and then raise the price once the stat changes have been implemented.
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Indeed. Prior to the Galaxy-class, Federation phasers were fired from banks, which were often globular turrets, installed in pairs (usually on the rectangular areas on the saucer sections of Miranda, Excelsior, Enterprise, and other ships of that era). When the Galaxy-class came about, a ring of emitters that all of the phasers of a ship would use to generate and aim their beams were installed.
So, rather than have the phaser fire directly from the bank, the energy was fed into the array ring, where it would travel from the phaser to the bearing it was to fire from, and then exit the ring at that point (which is why the phaser energy was seen travelling around the ring prior to being fired). The main advantage of this system was that the phaser banks no longer had to worry about nearly so many blindspots in the hull, though the total firepower was still about the same. Also, fewer phasers were required to produce the same level of protection for the ship, saving space and mass for other concerns (living space, science facilities, ect).
Thus, the phasers fired from the Galaxy's arrays were no stronger than those that would have fired from an Excelsior's banks (assuming the same level of phasers were installed). It's just that they had wider firing arcs and took fewer phaser equipment to do the same job (though that also had problems in battle conditions, where having fewer phasers meant losing them quicker).
Essentially what I was saying, but in full detail.
(When you've used the TNG:TM as a book report and had to summarize the ship components, you learn to abbreviate for simplicity)
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Fighting an unknown enemy that is willing to blow themselves up to take you out is a hard thing to do. Not really something that shows the galaxy in the best light I'll admit. But I'd say that any ship would fair poorly if the other guys don't care if the die or not.
Actually, I would think the Galaxy ships we see in DS9 during the Dominion war are war versions of the regular ship, probably refitted back to regular models after the widespread distribution of Sovereigns. In fact, I would say the Galaxy as it is portrayed in STO fits more the ship we saw in TNG.
When did it ever show any amount of considerable firepower? The only times it totally overpowered anything where when it was facing a technologically inferior ship, any old ship of the week that wasn't sporting incredibly outdated tech would find a way to incapacitate, neutralize, or outright totally outgun and overpower the Enterprize
But unlike DS9, we saw no major battles in TNG. The Enterprise was overwhelmingly based in exploration duties. Bear in mind that the timelines of DS9 and TNG do overlap, so if there was a Galaxy refit class sent into the Dominion War, it would not have been a huge step in sophistication.
this is incorrect. there are 200 emitters in the galaxy class's largest dorsal array, and each of them is separately charged and holds its own energy. the effect you see on screen is the energy in each emitter sequentially being passed down the array to the point were it is fired. thus the number of emitters in an array, and how long it is, is THE determination factor for how powerful an arrays best shot could be.
nothing in cannon can beat a galaxy's per shot phaser firepower, and it didn't exactly have a slow rate of fire. also its torpedo launchers can launch 10 torps in a single burst, and it can quite possibly fire several bursts like that in quick succession. the 2 launchers it has are enormous, it doesn't need more then 2 to out gun nearly anything.
through all the techno babel about phasers in the tech manual, it somewhat clearly states that thats how array phasers work. this is all clearly evident in that video that was posted, were the phasers made craters the size of the saucer section in the borg cube, and the torp rate of fire against that ship with the 3 pronged electric attack.
the generations fight and the odyssey fight were battles that were poorly choreographed that had the objective of shooting down a galaxy. the bop should have gotten 1 shot by that first phaser shot, and the bug ships shields were completely impervious to phaser fire wile their shields were complexity unable to stop their polaron weapons, they say exactly that durring the battle. see, they built something as big and powerful as a galaxy to be the hero ship, but all they could do over and over is write underdog stories for it. it was poorly served by all the times it lost when it shouldn't have in the series and movies.
All you can do is make excuses for direct comparisons and concrete evidence we have for pulse phasers and normal ones. Isn't it getting a little old?
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But seriously, it's a game and "balance" must be preserved. I would love and even pay for such Galaxy Class (fleet stats).
44k hull
1,1 shield mod
6 turn rate (with preferably +2 turn for all cruisers if it comes)
Lt. Tactical
Cmd. Engineer
En. Engineer.
Ltcm. Sci
Lt. Universal
Ie. the engineering copy of Nebula
5 weapons front, 3 weapons aft (Odd I know, but I like it)
4/3/3 console setup
3-piece set gear
Console universal - saucer separation (would reduce the cooldown tho)
Heavy beam array - lower range, less accurate, more dmg, less hits per volley beam array
Dual Photon torpedo tube - would work like omage torp with charges, 5 charges, 2 photons each.
Set bonuses, similar to romulan set.
Make it so !
I am not happy with the performance of the ship too compared to other similar line. At the mean time, I am flying a Dominion ship :-( so the Galaxy ship remains a monument in the dry dock.
Your first point is right. Using the TV shows, or films, as a means to show how powerful or weak the ships are is futile. The USS Odyssey may have been destroyed by the Dominion at the end of season two with "ease", but the USS Defiant was just as easily overwhelmed by them in the very next episode.
Both ships were in the same position of having no shields, though the Defiant's ablative hull armor was seemingly ineffective to protect her in this instance. Going by the timeframe of both battles, the USS Odyssey lasted longer than the Defiant, and was only defeated because the Jem'Hadar rammed her.
However there doesn't appear to be any other Galaxy-class starships destroyed on screen in a straight fight with the Dominion during the rest of the war; I'd say that the Second Batte of Chin'toka is exempt due to the general defeat of every allied ship in that battle. The USS Galaxy, seen taking heavy damage here, is still around by the time of the film "Nemesis" as it is listed among the ships that the Enterprise is trying to reach at the end of the film.
Of course this is all pointless willy waving in the end.
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in this episode the federation wasn't prepared for the phase polaron weapons that dominion use, it just go directly to the hull.
if we transpose this into the game, it's make 3 bug ship against a exploration cruiser without shield, supported by 3 runabout also without shield, i wonder how long ANY captain in this game would hold that!
and this is a purposed episode, at that time the galaxy class was still the flagship of the federation, the iconic representation of the federation firepower.
so this is the scenario intention,let get him fight against the dominion and let his TRIBBLE kick so that the audience would think " wow, this new enemi, the dominion, is no joke, even the best ship of the federation isn't capable to defend himself against them!"
so, clearly a unfair comparison to said the least.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
totally agree;)
well, i can't said about the 3 pieces gear, i haven't take it much thaught, but your BO layout is very good, i love it.
this would give the exploration cruiser a real purpose than beeing a non good at anything ship.
when look closely, this setup make this ship more efficient than the galaxy x for firepower, well done
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Now during the Dominion war, the Galaxy Class ships were refitted like any other vessel to include more firepower (the PROPER "Venture Refit" with Phaser Arrays on the Nacelles) and shields that included a resistance to Dominion attacks from data provided from the Runabouts following the Odyssey and the USS Defiant's first encounter with the Dominion.
The Galaxy is an extremely adaptable design in the series, functioning as an Exploration and Tactical Vessel in both TNG and DS9. Remember that the Enterprise was flagship of a fleet in both "Redemption" and "Chain of Command". The Odyssey incident highlighted one of the structural weaknesses of the Galaxy Class which was insufficient armor on the neck, which was corrected in the batch of ships released for the Dominion War.
Now the game should reflect the Galaxy's versatility as both a command, battleship and exploration vessel. Ideally the ship should have all Universal Console slots.
It's funny how important the role of flagship is to you until the sovereign takes it over.
The writers wanting to blow up a galaxy does not lessen the importance of that battle. It in fact cements the occurrence as a technological marker. With all it's shield power being put into weapons the odyssey couldn't even cause an explosion on a bug, the defiant destroys bugs in one burst of pulse phasers. Quantum torpedo volleys destroyed chel grets in seconds, the galaxy had neither of these weapons.
Things changed in star fleet once the Borg came, they were allowed to make warships for the first time and the effects were vast and felt all over. The sovereign was covered in torpedo launchers, as was the Akira class. Almost all of the steamrunner and nova class phaser arrays are small. The size issue was clearly dealt with.
Also I'd love some canon info on the venture refit that does anything to actual power levels instead of adding a few arrays and maybe a shuttle bay.
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In the only battle where we could see Galaxies going all out in the war it was during retake of DS9 and then those ships were literally pushing Galors aside with their phaser beams.
I would say that assumption about Galaxies being buffed during war to be more offensive ships is accurate. We never saw Sovereign fighting against Dominion so it would be hard to say what would happen. OTOH Valiant (the second Defiant class) was easily destroyed by Dominion dreadnaught and killing JHASes was taking him quite long (longer then in case of Siskos Defiant).
Plot power in work.
The valiant was an unfinished ship manned by cadets incapable of achieving warp 3. Even then it destroyed the bug with ease in moments.
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A proper war refit of a Galaxy should be pretty easy to make, just remove all the unnecessary labs and fill that space with more energy generators for doubled up shield and phaser emitters. Maybe paint some racing stripes down the sides of the nacelles to make it go faster too...
Personally I would not be against changing the Galaxy or at least the Galaxy-X into a more usefull ship given the current game. Sadly the Galaxy got stuck as the engineering ship of a line of engineering ships.
You will notice most newer cruisers have, or can have, a more tactical focus, probably a lesson they learned from the fiasco the Galaxy has become. Problem is, which niche do they fit it in? They already have several tac focused cruisers, perhaps the a Galaxy-R-R can be made that has a more balanced focus? Maybe basing it off the Assault cruiser design with one less turning and its lt eng turned into a lt. sci? Or at least make the Galaxy-X a copy of one of the better KDF battlecruisers in terms of design?
And Galaxy-class -were- extremely durable, mainly because they were so large. Damage that would destroy a Miranda and cripple an Excelsior would severely damage a Galaxy, but it could still function well enough to withdraw to a base for repair. Also, at the time of the Dominion War, the Excelsior class outnumbered the Galaxy class in Starfleet, and took on the more dangerous positions in the battlefleets. That also meant the Excelsiors took considerably more attrition losses, and left the Galaxy-class the main Starfleet ship afterwards merely because there were so few Excelsiors in working order by that time.
It's certainly true the Galaxy class ships we saw later were a whole lot tougher.
They certainly didn't just blow up like many other ships did and could hold their own even though they had the distinct disadvange of being litte more than gloified extras to the allmighty Defiant at that point.
IMO the destrcution of a Galaxy class ship during the first enocounter with the Dominion was an application of the so-called "Worf-Effect", which means the author/director wants to show stuff just got serious so the big tough fellow is smacked down hard.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect
This also pretty much shows the Galaxy class was THAT big tough fellow of her era.
However you might want to reconsider the line about no Galaxy ever getting lost after "The Jem'Hadar".
I've heard this numerous times before and it's probably one of this misconceptions that, once it gets tossed around often enough, is never questioned afterwards.
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1526/faceofevilfleet.jpg
The destruction of an entire fleet along with the Defiant in "The Changing Face of Evil" was pretty much the application of the same method on a larger scale and to be fair, the Galaxy class ships were no exception in this situation.
The rest I feel is fine with Galaxy, I use one myself despite of all the short coming and despite me owning a Regent as well. I just love the Galaxy and will continue to use it, none-the-less I hope that this matter gets looked into and fixed.
It is a modern ship still, atleast more than the Excelsior.
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