you have just been striked by the " what is your beef with the galaxy cryptic "forum galaxy wing, sorry bud, but we have 400 pages training to responded argument like thisXD.
you are not going to win.
mr worf, fire phaser on full and a simultaneous spread of torpedo:D:D
I am not going to even start to point out the irony of that statement. Especially as 400 pages have managed to accomplish anything barely more than froth. I'm not saying he is right, but I will venture that your definition of "win" is different from mosy of society's.
First of all, there's no such thing as being knowledgeable about the Galaxy class. It's like claiming to be knowledgeable about unicorns. You are either just making things up that sound good to you, or you are repeating made up "facts" that sounded good to somebody else. Neither is a valid source of knowledge. More galling, though, is the tendency to ignore the made up facts that you don't like in favor of the made up facts that you do, all while claiming to be "experts" with superior reasoning and rationale. At best, the posts about how great the Galaxy class "really" was are very narrowly focused fan fiction, with all the limited appeal and Mary-Sue sentimentality that implies.
I love how you, in particular, claim to love Trek, but then talk about how much you hate everything the show stood for. Stay classy!
This is an incredible bit of tangled logic - I cannot imagine the cognitive dissonance it must take to distort your mind enough to conceive of this reasoning, let alone accept it. For starters, people who don't want to change the Galaxy aren't necessarily "Galaxy haters" - they may just see no need to fix something that's not really broken. Disagreeing with the small number of rabid Galaxy fans in this thread doesn't make anyone a "hater", or unreasonable, or anything else. It just means we have a different opinion than you do. The fact that you need to convince people to change their minds in order to get what you want does not imply that people who fail to be convinced are haters, it just means your argument is not persuasive enough.
Second, the Galaxy class ISN'T really broken, as has been pointed out in this thread multiple times. The ship can complete the endgame missions, so there's no content that a Galaxy fan is excluded from. Moreover, the push to make the Galaxy better is not in a vacuum - while you claim you don't want to take anything away from other players, those of us who can reason clearly understand that in order to solve the "problem" you have (the Galaxy being perceived as the least effective combat ship), can only be solved by buffing the Galaxy so that something ELSE is the least effective combat ship. The best evidence for this is how this thread has reacted to the Comm Arrays. The Galaxy class is now unquestionably better than it was, yet people still want more buffs for the Galaxy specifically, because it's position relative to other cruisers hasn't changed.
Taken together, this means that far from being the benign, "live and let live" kind of campaign you want to pretend it is, your push to improve the Galaxy is, in fact, an active campaign in competition with other players/ship types. The "problem" with the Galaxy is not that it can't compete against the NPCs and PVE content, it's that other ships are "better" at those jobs, and that's frustrating to Galaxy fans who want to both fly their favorite ship and demonstrate their epeen. The thing is, I get it - it's annoying to have to choose between the ship you like the most aesthetically and the ship you like the most mechanically - but it's something that almost everyone has to do. That said, most of us don't get up in arms about it, and we recognize that buffing one ship to be better so as to assuage a perceived slight by that ships fans will necessarily create a whole new group of fans who feel slighted by being the new "worst ship". We haven't solved the problem, just foisted it on to someone else.
At best, you can argue that you're trying to make everything perform at exactly the same level, but that's about as fanciful an idea as unicorns and Cruise-ship styled explorers that are also super-battleships. The fact is, if ships are to be different from each other, then ships are going to be (to quote Brown v Board) inherently unequal. There will always be a broad consensus among the internet-erati about the mechanically best ship, and even if you can act to narrow those differences, the people on the "bottom" of the list will always still feel slighted. In my experience, narrowing the gap actually makes the people on the bottom scream louder, as they don't understand why they couldn't have been buffed just a little bit more, to make up for being at the bottom for so long. Basically, they argue that if the differences don't matter that much, why shouldn't they be buffed to be on top, since they are so frustrated with being on the bottom so long. Not a persuasive argument.
On the other hand, you could argue that this thread was somehow a sign that there is a large number of fans who support the change, and treat it as basically a "vote", whereby the larger number of Galaxy fans "deserve" a buff, and the fans of some less well known ship (say, the Cheyenne) just have to suck it up. That just shows that you are basically bullies, though, and in any case rests on the specious assumption that a long thread populated by a few individuals who can't let it go is somehow indicative of a large number of followers, instead of a small number of extremely ardent Galaxy zealots. Again, not persuasive.
I really do agree with this. I have been pusing for improvements to all cruisers that would not only make the Exploration Cruiser more effective, but also able to make excellent use of its engineering focus in a more aggressive manner, but many of the true-believers want it to be at least tactically comparable with the upper middle pack of cruisers, basically mirroring them through uni-consoles and more tactical consoles and hard charging three-packs and equipment bonus combos. Even when value-added thigns are added to the ship, they complain that it is still at the bottom, therefore wasn't good enough.
While I believe the the cruiser commands should have been limited to the bulkier, non-tactically focused cruisers, like the Explorer, its not a solution and should never have been looked as such. The one thing we saw on TNG was the engineering wizardy that got the ship through its episodes, and I argue this is the focus that needs to be brought out by Cryptic, not to make it the same as the other cruisers.
Why do I feel like gouging my eyes out after reading everyones' arguments?
You know what? **** it, I'll just go fly my Galaxy-X, get my Galaxy-R later after I save up and then get the Fleet Galaxy-R and fly it.
The X isn't bad in ISE now. I actually get the top place more often than not in it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Look at me I'm a target!" "Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK! "How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?" My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
Second, the Galaxy class ISN'T really broken, as has been pointed out in this thread multiple times. The ship can complete the endgame missions, so there's no content that a Galaxy fan is excluded from. Moreover, the push to make the Galaxy better is not in a vacuum - while you claim you don't want to take anything away from other players, those of us who can reason clearly understand that in order to solve the "problem" you have (the Galaxy being perceived as the least effective combat ship), can only be solved by buffing the Galaxy so that something ELSE is the least effective combat ship. The best evidence for this is how this thread has reacted to the Comm Arrays. The Galaxy class is now unquestionably better than it was, yet people still want more buffs for the Galaxy specifically, because it's position relative to other cruisers hasn't changed.(...)
I'd like to join the discussion here. While have repeatedly said that simply buffing tactical abilities is nonsense the BOFF layout of the ship IS indeed broken by the games mechanics. The Negh'Var's as well, by the way. Three engineering Boffs don't work because the abilities "trip over" each other. That means you are absolutely limited to to EPtX abilities and ET 1 at ensign level. No other department has that problem, tactical and science have more abilities to choose from that don't share cooldowns. This is bad game design that should be fixed, either by changing engineering BOFF abilities or by at least a universal ensign for the fleet version of the ship - just like it's KDF mirror has.
Regarding the comm arrays, I feel you are referring to me here (since I brought it up a few times) and at least I suggested that cruiser comms should have been buffed/be exclusive for all cruisers that feature two tactical consoles (that means the Star Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser R, Explo Cruiser R and the non-tac Oddys as well as low tac KDF battlecruisers that'd miss out on one ability (preferably the damage boost) like they do now). I think most people support that change as it not only improves the Galaxy Class which, by the way, is a c-store ship and as such shouldn't be worse than the free Star Cruiser.
I think that are pretty reasonable points.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
also for those that say that E-D's defeat in generations is definitive proof that the galaxy was a horrible class lets just remember generations was a horrible movie with more plot holes then a full season of voyager
One the destruction of the Enterprise was BS. They could have used some other plot to make it where the klinks beamed in something and ruptured the core and couldnt eject said warpcore and had to separate saucer to escape a explosion.. Would have been better then some old bop destroying it.
Two I didnt like the way Kirk died. He said he was gonna die alone. Honestly I can get over them killing Kirk but Picard just leaves him on the planet and does't take a famous Starfleet officer back to earth and instead just leaves him covered with rocks on some alien world. They could have atleast held a ceremony on one of the rescue ships but no he just leaves him there.
Back to the subject though. The Galaxy could be a great cruiser or atleast up to par with other cruisers if they added to or changed some of engineer bo powers cooldowns. One big thing they could do is add the same Shield Distribution currently on Tac team to Engineering team (and Science team honestly should get it also) to make it better and to take away the need for everyone to have to give a tac bo slot to Tac team. Think that change alone would make some of the cruisers and Science vessels alittle better with just a quick change.
you are an avatar on a forum. if you want to be seen as mature and knowledgeable, act that way.
reciting cliche wont get you seen in a positive way.
I am really broken up by what a bunch of 14 year olds who have only watched Star Trek as reruns feel about me. In reality the galaxy class was a disappointment every week the show was on. Like I said, every week it was losing shields or blowing a eps conduit or having a warp core breach. It was sad by the end, really, that's why they wanted to destroy it in generations....that and new sets...
As to all the arguments well yea I understand that we can only reference whats on Wiki and the shows.
Having said that if they take time after season 8 and do what most ppl I think want in one form or another and make all ships customizable to where you can change the Boff (like suggested in another thread for 500 zen) and console layout (for say another 500 zen ) then we could all fly the ships we like and not be battling on the forums about changing and fixing the older outdated ships. They could sell ships for the same price and once you own said ship you can then use it layouts for other ships you own. Simply and effective. Resriction would be that you can only use the layouts from ships of the same class. OOh and while their at it they can add to or fix the Engineer boffs powers.
I am really broken up by what a bunch of 14 year olds who have only watched Star Trek as reruns feel about me. In reality the galaxy class was a disappointment every week the show was on. Like I said, every week it was losing shields or blowing a eps conduit or having a warp core breach. It was sad by the end, really, that's why they wanted to destroy it in generations....that and new sets...
Yes. Your need to respond is a definite indicator of how little you care.
14 years old or not, the post to which you were responding, displayed a greater degree of maturity than your own. Just an fyi.
Why do I feel like gouging my eyes out after reading everyones' arguments?
You know what? **** it, I'll just go fly my Galaxy-X, get my Galaxy-R later after I save up and then get the Fleet Galaxy-R and fly it.
The X isn't bad in ISE now. I actually get the top place more often than not in it.
This made me lol so hard a little bit of wee came out
What did the other players have, lvl 2 bops
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Please, you werent even born when I was watching Star Trek, you lost this arguement before you even began it....
even if you were truly older than me that would still not make your arguments more valid.
it would however show that you really have to grow up....in your head.
As to all the arguments well yea I understand that we can only reference whats on Wiki and the shows.
Having said that if they take time after season 8 and do what most ppl I think want in one form or another and make all ships customizable to where you can change the Boff (like suggested in another thread for 500 zen) and console layout (for say another 500 zen ) then we could all fly the ships we like and not be battling on the forums about changing and fixing the older outdated ships. They could sell ships for the same price and once you own said ship you can then use it layouts for other ships you own. Simply and effective. Resriction would be that you can only use the layouts from ships of the same class. OOh and while their at it they can add to or fix the Engineer boffs powers.
Yes, but until that day, the tin-foil conspiracy will continue.
Honestly though, I don't know if it really would be beneficial for Cryptic to offer that customization. If people spend the Zen on customization, there would be less demand for new ship types and would cut into future ship sales. Unless they make people pay through the nose for a skin design, most of what people will "want" will be customized. Sounds to me almost like a death knell to future ships being released (unless they make a Tier 6 and above and dont let ships cross from t5/Fleet to those higher tiers).
Yes. Your need to respond is a definite indicator of how little you care.
14 years old or not, the post to which you were responding, displayed a greater degree of maturity than your own. Just an fyi.
I will say one thing about this. I really do think that the age a person viewed a show can define their point of view on what ship was better. I was spoon-fed on TOS, even TAS, and was older when I watched the movies. By the time TNG hit, I wasn't so much impressed as others by the performance of the ship, a lot of that had to do with the techno-babble they used to get the ship out of "X" problem about half of the time. As far as the Defiant went, I saw B5 to know what she really was.
this actually dragged on its combat performance, in chain of command when the enterprise was temporarily commanded by jelico, he did things very differently, he acted as if he was part of a military, and he took measures to bypass and shut down a lot of the science labs during high alert because they were such a useless draw on power in a fight. the ship was not optimized for combat, but it could still easily defend itself dispite that. it just goes to show how not cockiee cutter various ships are, that they come in vastly different configurations to serve very different purposes.
I'm sure that all of the other Fed' ships that have labs could also shut them down, and also other non-essential systems when they needed it to. As far as Jelico goes. I've been hearing people talking about how the Enterprise stared down 5 Galor's. It stared them down when they were hiding in a nebula, what gave Jelico the advantage was when he deployed the mines that would have blown those ships to bits. It was much more the man than the ship. Honestly, he could have done the same thing in an Excel', Ambassador, Miranda, or even a freighter. They were caught with their pants down trying to play a captain for a patsy. If it would have been Picard, it would have worked, but it wasn't because of the ship for that one.
no one could call the E-D a battleship, it was not configured to be one. but, in yesterdays enterprise you see exactly what a galaxy class looks like that is actually configured to be a battleship. again galaxy class are blank slates, they are whatever their configuration makes them to be.
its pretty obvious how proportionately weak 23rd century weapons were to 24th century. the reliant's beams could just barely breach the hull, the array on a galaxy class has been known to blow up ships larger then the connie almost immediately after they breach their shields. the enterprise E ramed its crew quarters into the scimitars hangerbay. boy, no wonder nether exploded.
WoK would have been mighty short if either the Enterprise or Reliant had done that, wouldn't it? Plus it wouldn't have given Khan a way to present his evil mastermind monologue, eh? Not saying that the Galaxy classes didn't have more firepower than ship had 80 years before it, but really.....
by the time the dominion war started, galaxys were serving as battleships, and slaughtering everything in thier path. during operation return, at least 1 galaxy class totally breached the dominion lines and then started flanking to help other ships make it through. during the actual war you dont see a single galaxy go down on screen ether. there was as many as 15 galaxy class in a single image of a single fleet, thes ships were clearly mass produced far beyond the original 6. it was not a failure, the class was not shelved or replaced by anything in canon.
Wasn't there a scene in Operation Return where 4 Peregrines manhandled a Galor? They seemed do be equivalent in firepower to one Galaxy from what I saw.
the writing was so bad when the E-D was forced to lose, that the show could have been taking place in a runabout and it wouldn't have effected the story. in fact it would have actually made sense. ~5 ferengi suddenly in control of a ship of over 1000? was the bridge crew the only people on the entire ship that day? at any time they could have had someone in a transporter room beam them into the brig, or space. it would be easier to kick in the the doors of a police station and take it by force then storming a ship like that without hundreds of boarding parties.
there you have it, the galaxy class if you actually watched the show.
So we are back to bad writing being at fault for any flaws in the ship. never-mind that the same script and writing is also being what you use to point out how good the ship was.
as easy as it is to think of the defiant as a whitestar knockoff, at 480 meters, a whitestar is the size of a vorcha and armed with fusion cannons & anti-matter beams weapons, so, its an undine cruiser with permanent evasive manoeuvres.
And the Defiant came out almost instantaneously after we saw the White Star. And in terms of size relation the White Star was very close is equivalent size to an Omega or Nova as the Defiant is to the Galaxy.
This is an incredible bit of tangled logic - I cannot imagine the cognitive dissonance it must take to distort your mind enough to conceive of this reasoning, let alone accept it. For starters, people who don't want to change the Galaxy aren't necessarily "Galaxy haters" - they may just see no need to fix something that's not really broken. Disagreeing with the small number of rabid Galaxy fans in this thread doesn't make anyone a "hater", or unreasonable, or anything else. It just means we have a different opinion than you do. The fact that you need to convince people to change their minds in order to get what you want does not imply that people who fail to be convinced are haters, it just means your argument is not persuasive enough.
i agree with that logic, anyone who disagree that the galaxy need a fix is not necessarily a hater.
is that such a thing really exist btw, a galaxy hater, i conceive that some can not stand it look, but "hater" feel to me as someone that actively do some kind of protest or whatelse against the ship.
that being said, anyone that disagree that this ship need a fix either don't care about it or don't anderstand a thing about STO game mechanics, if not a hater.
Second, the Galaxy class ISN'T really broken, as has been pointed out in this thread multiple times. The ship can complete the endgame missions, so there's no content that a Galaxy fan is excluded from
on this one i will just quote this guy who said it better than i ever will be
I think there's a distinction to be made between the Galaxy being usable at endgame and being a decent cruiser.
On the first point, the ship is definitely usable at endgame; so are T4 ships, really. Most content in the game just isn't that difficult. People have done STFs in T1 ships - outside of a few select things like No Win Scenario, you can get it done in whatever ship you like. So the Galaxy is quite usable at endgame (I used it myself for a while).
Of course, this doesn't mean that it's a decent cruiser. The Galaxy is either matched or bettered in anything it can do by another endgame cruiser. It takes several of the worst possible outcomes in ship design and slaps them all onto the one ship (3rd ensign slot, poor turn rate, 2 tac consoles). The only thing it does have going for it is that it has more hull than comparable cruisers - probably the worst thing to have an advantage in. And due to the overspecialisation of its console and boff layout, it's not even the tankiest ship in the game.
As to all the arguments well yea I understand that we can only reference whats on Wiki and the shows.
Having said that if they take time after season 8 and do what most ppl I think want in one form or another and make all ships customizable to where you can change the Boff (like suggested in another thread for 500 zen) and console layout (for say another 500 zen ) then we could all fly the ships we like and not be battling on the forums about changing and fixing the older outdated ships. They could sell ships for the same price and once you own said ship you can then use it layouts for other ships you own. Simply and effective. Resriction would be that you can only use the layouts from ships of the same class. OOh and while their at it they can add to or fix the Engineer boffs powers.
this or have BOFF seating packs that have basic boff seating you can add to ships similar to the bridge packs they sell. like 2 or 3 different boff seatings per pack you can then switch out. also having the seating of c-store/fleet/lock box ships you purchase also be added as well
i add lock box because well cryptic likes money and the sale of lock box ships would probably increase if they did that
I am not going to even start to point out the irony of that statement. Especially as 400 pages have managed to accomplish anything barely more than froth. I'm not saying he is right, but I will venture that your definition of "win" is different from mosy of society's.
when i said " you are not going to win" i was speaking about his argument, so what the relation between that and you opinion that this thread haven't manage to accomplish anything?
when i said " you are not going to win" i was speaking about his argument, so what the relation between that and you opinion that this thread haven't manage to accomplish anything?
I'm just pointing out that in 400 pages, you're not going to be able to unequivocally refute his point of view either, especially when to proponents of "Galaxy awesomeness" quickly point out to the show when they say something is great about the ship and then dismiss anything from the show that diminishes that point of view as fault of the writers. Pretty much 400 pages, with some exclusions, of that so far.
also for those that say that E-D's defeat in generations is definitive proof that the galaxy was a horrible class lets just remember generations was a horrible movie with more plot holes then a full season of voyager
I'm just pointing out that in 400 pages, you're not going to be able to unequivocally refute his point of view either, especially when to proponents of "Galaxy awesomeness" quickly point out to the show when they say something is great about the ship and then dismiss anything from the show that diminishes that point of view as fault of the writers. Pretty much 400 pages, with some exclusions, of that so far.
And on that bombshell, congrats on that post being number 4,000, Whamhammer1!
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
just so it;s known i rarely use the show for any thing and mostly use the written TNG bible for the show form 1989 or the tech manuals written by Okuda, sternbach, zimmerman, and drexler the producers of TNG and DS9 and the creators of the enterpise D and the galaxy class ships shown in the different series
I feel like they should just change the Ensign to universal and boom perfection. i could run that ship the same way i run my oddy, with slightly less damage at the loss of a tac slot (i use the tac oddy).
With that i would be happy. The Ensign Engineer is just too redundant with the enginnering powers, switch it to uni, i could have my tac team, or polarize hull depending on situation.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm just pointing out that in 400 pages, you're not going to be able to unequivocally refute his point of view either, especially when to proponents of "Galaxy awesomeness" quickly point out to the show when they say something is great about the ship and then dismiss anything from the show that diminishes that point of view as fault of the writers. Pretty much 400 pages, with some exclusions, of that so far.
on the countrary, that is exactly why i, neo1nx, refute all his point ( even if i didn't really begun to argue with him ) because they are base on what we see on the show.
arguing that this ship is good or not, because it is or is not, what like someone think it was on the show is a moot point.
the only things that can be concluded from the show is general realistic evidence, like a shuttle will not outgun a cruiser for example.
on the same logic an ambassador should not outgunned a galaxy that is meant to replaced him.
if a game developper made a game where shuttles would outgunned cruiser, one would be in their right to said that this is not an accurate representation of star trek universe.
but that is just as far as we can go, the rest is indeed "the writers fault" and is mostly irrelevant for a game where you have to have a balance.
that is where i have already demonstrate that cryptic made the galaxy wrong, when you compared it to ANY other cruiser and try to find something that he can do as good or better than the rest.
even free RA ship outperformed this cstore cruiser, no need to be a genious to see that something is wrong, and no need of a thousand canon evidences either.
I feel like they should just change the Ensign to universal and boom perfection. i could run that ship the same way i run my oddy, with slightly less damage at the loss of a tac slot (i use the tac oddy).
With that i would be happy. The Ensign Engineer is just too redundant with the enginnering powers, switch it to uni, i could have my tac team, or polarize hull depending on situation.
Agreed. The absence of a universal slot on the C-Store Galaxy Retrofit is one of those things that makes me scratch my head in wonder. The same goes for the Galaxy-X.
I suspect universal slots would silence many of the complaints regarding the Exploration and Dreadnought Cruisers, since they would add flexibility for players.
Agreed. The absence of a universal slot on the C-Store Galaxy Retrofit is one of those things that makes me scratch my head in wonder. The same goes for the Galaxy-X.
I suspect universal slots would silence many of the complaints regarding the Exploration and Dreadnought Cruisers, since they would add flexibility for players.
Exactly, but everyone wants it to be a super ship, that one simple change of the ensign uni would make it extremely usable by me.
I love the design, love most of the setup, but i have no clue what to do with that darned ensign.....
The oddy im running on my eng toon i finally found a build that works, after having the oddy on my tac and sci since it came out, it took an eng and a whim of fancy to finally get something that works.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
first, it is said that the galaxy sucks, is the worst ship in the game, and needs to be fixed. then some one who the pve was built to cater too, someone who cant use any ship to 10% of its potential anyway so they would have no frame of reference as to what sucks or doesn't, tries to refute that, and say nothing is wrong with it.
for some reason, i bother to point out 5-10 different ways its worse then every cruiser alternative, cause i'd like to keep as argument as stupid as 'theres nothing wrong with the ship' beaten down before it picks up any more steam.
then those people pivot, saying oh well the ship sucked in the show anyway, and im trolled into presenting strait from canon and tech manual sources information, that i dont even have to embellish or exaggerate, that shows how incorrect that is.
then they pivot once again, dismissing, insulting, trying to establish as a fact that theres no way to draw any hard conclusions, definitive facts, or benchmarks from any of the canon at all. oh, and making some of the most TRIBBLE analogies ive ever seen in the process. unicorns? really? how is that an analogy for 7+ years of galaxy class screen time and hard documentation?
then everyone is thoroughly annoyed at all that drama, and goes back to saying well how it did in canon doesn't mater, it just shouldn't be as bad of a ship as it is, given an assortment of valid reasons.
oh, but here we are, back at the beginning of the cycle. i already see step 2 beginning again. when i want to feel disappointed or stupefied i look to the naysayers in this thread, and they never let me down.
Comments
I am not going to even start to point out the irony of that statement. Especially as 400 pages have managed to accomplish anything barely more than froth. I'm not saying he is right, but I will venture that your definition of "win" is different from mosy of society's.
I really do agree with this. I have been pusing for improvements to all cruisers that would not only make the Exploration Cruiser more effective, but also able to make excellent use of its engineering focus in a more aggressive manner, but many of the true-believers want it to be at least tactically comparable with the upper middle pack of cruisers, basically mirroring them through uni-consoles and more tactical consoles and hard charging three-packs and equipment bonus combos. Even when value-added thigns are added to the ship, they complain that it is still at the bottom, therefore wasn't good enough.
While I believe the the cruiser commands should have been limited to the bulkier, non-tactically focused cruisers, like the Explorer, its not a solution and should never have been looked as such. The one thing we saw on TNG was the engineering wizardy that got the ship through its episodes, and I argue this is the focus that needs to be brought out by Cryptic, not to make it the same as the other cruisers.
Yes, it was a conspiracy, I even saw Geko as an adviser on the set. Your official tin-foil hat is in shipping.
You know what? **** it, I'll just go fly my Galaxy-X, get my Galaxy-R later after I save up and then get the Fleet Galaxy-R and fly it.
The X isn't bad in ISE now. I actually get the top place more often than not in it.
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
I'd like to join the discussion here. While have repeatedly said that simply buffing tactical abilities is nonsense the BOFF layout of the ship IS indeed broken by the games mechanics. The Negh'Var's as well, by the way. Three engineering Boffs don't work because the abilities "trip over" each other. That means you are absolutely limited to to EPtX abilities and ET 1 at ensign level. No other department has that problem, tactical and science have more abilities to choose from that don't share cooldowns. This is bad game design that should be fixed, either by changing engineering BOFF abilities or by at least a universal ensign for the fleet version of the ship - just like it's KDF mirror has.
Regarding the comm arrays, I feel you are referring to me here (since I brought it up a few times) and at least I suggested that cruiser comms should have been buffed/be exclusive for all cruisers that feature two tactical consoles (that means the Star Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser R, Explo Cruiser R and the non-tac Oddys as well as low tac KDF battlecruisers that'd miss out on one ability (preferably the damage boost) like they do now). I think most people support that change as it not only improves the Galaxy Class which, by the way, is a c-store ship and as such shouldn't be worse than the free Star Cruiser.
I think that are pretty reasonable points.
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One the destruction of the Enterprise was BS. They could have used some other plot to make it where the klinks beamed in something and ruptured the core and couldnt eject said warpcore and had to separate saucer to escape a explosion.. Would have been better then some old bop destroying it.
Two I didnt like the way Kirk died. He said he was gonna die alone. Honestly I can get over them killing Kirk but Picard just leaves him on the planet and does't take a famous Starfleet officer back to earth and instead just leaves him covered with rocks on some alien world. They could have atleast held a ceremony on one of the rescue ships but no he just leaves him there.
Back to the subject though. The Galaxy could be a great cruiser or atleast up to par with other cruisers if they added to or changed some of engineer bo powers cooldowns. One big thing they could do is add the same Shield Distribution currently on Tac team to Engineering team (and Science team honestly should get it also) to make it better and to take away the need for everyone to have to give a tac bo slot to Tac team. Think that change alone would make some of the cruisers and Science vessels alittle better with just a quick change.
I am really broken up by what a bunch of 14 year olds who have only watched Star Trek as reruns feel about me. In reality the galaxy class was a disappointment every week the show was on. Like I said, every week it was losing shields or blowing a eps conduit or having a warp core breach. It was sad by the end, really, that's why they wanted to destroy it in generations....that and new sets...
Having said that if they take time after season 8 and do what most ppl I think want in one form or another and make all ships customizable to where you can change the Boff (like suggested in another thread for 500 zen) and console layout (for say another 500 zen ) then we could all fly the ships we like and not be battling on the forums about changing and fixing the older outdated ships. They could sell ships for the same price and once you own said ship you can then use it layouts for other ships you own. Simply and effective. Resriction would be that you can only use the layouts from ships of the same class. OOh and while their at it they can add to or fix the Engineer boffs powers.
Yes. Your need to respond is a definite indicator of how little you care.
14 years old or not, the post to which you were responding, displayed a greater degree of maturity than your own. Just an fyi.
This made me lol so hard a little bit of wee came out
What did the other players have, lvl 2 bops
even if you were truly older than me that would still not make your arguments more valid.
it would however show that you really have to grow up....in your head.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Yes, but until that day, the tin-foil conspiracy will continue.
Honestly though, I don't know if it really would be beneficial for Cryptic to offer that customization. If people spend the Zen on customization, there would be less demand for new ship types and would cut into future ship sales. Unless they make people pay through the nose for a skin design, most of what people will "want" will be customized. Sounds to me almost like a death knell to future ships being released (unless they make a Tier 6 and above and dont let ships cross from t5/Fleet to those higher tiers).
I will say one thing about this. I really do think that the age a person viewed a show can define their point of view on what ship was better. I was spoon-fed on TOS, even TAS, and was older when I watched the movies. By the time TNG hit, I wasn't so much impressed as others by the performance of the ship, a lot of that had to do with the techno-babble they used to get the ship out of "X" problem about half of the time. As far as the Defiant went, I saw B5 to know what she really was.
I'm sure that all of the other Fed' ships that have labs could also shut them down, and also other non-essential systems when they needed it to. As far as Jelico goes. I've been hearing people talking about how the Enterprise stared down 5 Galor's. It stared them down when they were hiding in a nebula, what gave Jelico the advantage was when he deployed the mines that would have blown those ships to bits. It was much more the man than the ship. Honestly, he could have done the same thing in an Excel', Ambassador, Miranda, or even a freighter. They were caught with their pants down trying to play a captain for a patsy. If it would have been Picard, it would have worked, but it wasn't because of the ship for that one.
WoK would have been mighty short if either the Enterprise or Reliant had done that, wouldn't it? Plus it wouldn't have given Khan a way to present his evil mastermind monologue, eh? Not saying that the Galaxy classes didn't have more firepower than ship had 80 years before it, but really.....
Wasn't there a scene in Operation Return where 4 Peregrines manhandled a Galor? They seemed do be equivalent in firepower to one Galaxy from what I saw.
So we are back to bad writing being at fault for any flaws in the ship. never-mind that the same script and writing is also being what you use to point out how good the ship was.
And the Defiant came out almost instantaneously after we saw the White Star. And in terms of size relation the White Star was very close is equivalent size to an Omega or Nova as the Defiant is to the Galaxy.
i agree with that logic, anyone who disagree that the galaxy need a fix is not necessarily a hater.
is that such a thing really exist btw, a galaxy hater, i conceive that some can not stand it look, but "hater" feel to me as someone that actively do some kind of protest or whatelse against the ship.
that being said, anyone that disagree that this ship need a fix either don't care about it or don't anderstand a thing about STO game mechanics, if not a hater.
on this one i will just quote this guy who said it better than i ever will be
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
this or have BOFF seating packs that have basic boff seating you can add to ships similar to the bridge packs they sell. like 2 or 3 different boff seatings per pack you can then switch out. also having the seating of c-store/fleet/lock box ships you purchase also be added as well
i add lock box because well cryptic likes money and the sale of lock box ships would probably increase if they did that
when i said " you are not going to win" i was speaking about his argument, so what the relation between that and you opinion that this thread haven't manage to accomplish anything?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
HAHAAAAAA!!!
so you admited it!! I KNEW IT!!!
I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT!!!
cmon yeodred, let take ours torch and let go burn cryptic headquater!!
ok, just joking:D ( or not?:rolleyes:)
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
I'm just pointing out that in 400 pages, you're not going to be able to unequivocally refute his point of view either, especially when to proponents of "Galaxy awesomeness" quickly point out to the show when they say something is great about the ship and then dismiss anything from the show that diminishes that point of view as fault of the writers. Pretty much 400 pages, with some exclusions, of that so far.
I thought torches were out and pain-sticks were in?
And on that bombshell, congrats on that post being number 4,000, Whamhammer1!
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
With that i would be happy. The Ensign Engineer is just too redundant with the enginnering powers, switch it to uni, i could have my tac team, or polarize hull depending on situation.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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on the countrary, that is exactly why i, neo1nx, refute all his point ( even if i didn't really begun to argue with him ) because they are base on what we see on the show.
arguing that this ship is good or not, because it is or is not, what like someone think it was on the show is a moot point.
the only things that can be concluded from the show is general realistic evidence, like a shuttle will not outgun a cruiser for example.
on the same logic an ambassador should not outgunned a galaxy that is meant to replaced him.
if a game developper made a game where shuttles would outgunned cruiser, one would be in their right to said that this is not an accurate representation of star trek universe.
but that is just as far as we can go, the rest is indeed "the writers fault" and is mostly irrelevant for a game where you have to have a balance.
that is where i have already demonstrate that cryptic made the galaxy wrong, when you compared it to ANY other cruiser and try to find something that he can do as good or better than the rest.
even free RA ship outperformed this cstore cruiser, no need to be a genious to see that something is wrong, and no need of a thousand canon evidences either.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Agreed. The absence of a universal slot on the C-Store Galaxy Retrofit is one of those things that makes me scratch my head in wonder. The same goes for the Galaxy-X.
I suspect universal slots would silence many of the complaints regarding the Exploration and Dreadnought Cruisers, since they would add flexibility for players.
Exactly, but everyone wants it to be a super ship, that one simple change of the ensign uni would make it extremely usable by me.
I love the design, love most of the setup, but i have no clue what to do with that darned ensign.....
The oddy im running on my eng toon i finally found a build that works, after having the oddy on my tac and sci since it came out, it took an eng and a whim of fancy to finally get something that works.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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first, it is said that the galaxy sucks, is the worst ship in the game, and needs to be fixed. then some one who the pve was built to cater too, someone who cant use any ship to 10% of its potential anyway so they would have no frame of reference as to what sucks or doesn't, tries to refute that, and say nothing is wrong with it.
for some reason, i bother to point out 5-10 different ways its worse then every cruiser alternative, cause i'd like to keep as argument as stupid as 'theres nothing wrong with the ship' beaten down before it picks up any more steam.
then those people pivot, saying oh well the ship sucked in the show anyway, and im trolled into presenting strait from canon and tech manual sources information, that i dont even have to embellish or exaggerate, that shows how incorrect that is.
then they pivot once again, dismissing, insulting, trying to establish as a fact that theres no way to draw any hard conclusions, definitive facts, or benchmarks from any of the canon at all. oh, and making some of the most TRIBBLE analogies ive ever seen in the process. unicorns? really? how is that an analogy for 7+ years of galaxy class screen time and hard documentation?
then everyone is thoroughly annoyed at all that drama, and goes back to saying well how it did in canon doesn't mater, it just shouldn't be as bad of a ship as it is, given an assortment of valid reasons.
oh, but here we are, back at the beginning of the cycle. i already see step 2 beginning again. when i want to feel disappointed or stupefied i look to the naysayers in this thread, and they never let me down.