5% is probably excageration. I mean 5% of 2 million is like 100 000 dedicated PvP players. I do not know about other timezone, but I would be suprised if there is like 100 PvPlayers in my TZ.
And hasnt the last PvP Dev said that PvP is so small part of STO that removing it wont influence gameplay at all? So 5% sounds pretty optimistic.
I would really like the see beams have a stronger utility bonus than what we have now.
Each weapon type has its own unique proc ability.
Why shouldn't beam weapons have a higher % chance to proc this effect? Everyone right now hasa 2.5% chance to proc one of these effects. Why not allow beams to have a 5%-10% chance to proc per hit.
Beams should not do comparable dmg to cannons BUT the unique effects of each weapon type should be MUCH higher as an alternative.
I think that would give beams and this game a much more diverse flavor in combat/dmg than we have now.
...... or add a bloody HEAVY BA to counter the dual HEAVY cannons. And a lot of the more sensible con-BA players agree with this.
I think the sticking point is that Beamers (come on, come ON, catch on as an STO meme!), or at least a lot of them, want to restrict their newfangled Heavy Beams to cruisers only.
Anything short of a Starbase Phaser Lance/Wave Motion Gun/Reflex Cannon/Deathstar Megalaser should be available to all ships. Heck, I've come to realize that fed cruisers should even have access to DHCs if they wanted to make some sort of close in ultra slow brick build. Not sure how good it'd be,but why limit player's options?
Edit: As a sidenote, who else would prefer to see something like a Macross styled range of ships than more of the known trek bad guy ships in the lockboxes? Good grief, gimme my X-304 skin for the Armitage already!! GRRRR!!!
Oh, I agree with this whole-heartedly. A lot of the pro-BA players want DHC level damage with BA level firing arcs and range diminishers. And a lot of con-BA players say "fk it, just fly a cannonscort".
I'm quite happy with a simple change to beam drain or even just the drain mechanics since Flekh taught me how to play cruisers (good guy Flekh, knows his way around the game)
Anything short of a Starbase Phaser Lance/Wave Motion Gun/Reflex Cannon/Deathstar Megalaser should be available to all ships. Heck, I've come to realize that fed cruisers should even have access to DHCs if they wanted to make some sort of close in ultra slow brick build. Not sure how good it'd be,but why limit player's options?
And here is where you and I differ greatly in opinion. But before I go into that, I will add in a small note that fed cruisers cannot use DHCs. That is for escorts, battlecruisers, destroyers, and ONE cruiser and ONE science ship. So sorry to say, builds are already limited for most cruisers, and most science ships.
Also I still think that it's a little odd that every ship can use every weapon type. That doesn't really make sense. Ok, nevermind it does, but to have every single ship able to use every weapon with exactly the same effectiveness? That's just whacked. If you look at how some of these weapons work, that makes little to no sense at all.
Of course then one has to consider canon vs game. And game wins out every time, since as I have stated dozens of times, this game is not canon, which removes a lot of arguments XD. However I still believe the weapon restrictions should be more widespread, keep certain weapons on certain ships only, and then alter how the weapons work to make them better tailored to that ship-class.
But that's a different debate for another time.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Though at thos point the debate has become redundant. Having given or agreed with the ideas of;
Decreasing the drain of beams
Creating a CRF BOff ability for beams
Lowering beams range modifier
Etc etc
I do not hink beamers will ever be happy until beam arrays do exactly the same damage as DHCs and that makes no sense to me in any balanced way.
I don't know if I am a so called "beamer", but I would like to see them be more capable at dishing out damage. Do I want them to equal DHC's? No, I just want to see that beams, turrets and single cannons can do more damage than players can soak with resistance.
When science vessels get to be on top, they will bring pie, probably rhubarb.
When Science ships are on top space will be torn apart, twisted in more ways than one can imagine and moulded back together and the universe will cease to exist as we know it... :P I look forward to it
Read most of this thread and thought I'd pitch in.
First a disclaimer: I am not a super-leet PVP guy. I just like math and game design.
The biggest problem I am seeing isn't that beams don't do enough damage, it's that it's hard to sustain it and that beam BOff abilities don't seem to give them much extra punch. Cannons tend to be more efficient, higher dps, higher proc-chance* weapons with BOff abilities that can boost that enormously.
I don't think cannons should change. I like their flavor and I think they work.
Beams should change, but not in a way that makes them effectively wide-angle cannons.
So, what can be done to make beams attractive for use in PVP without having them fulfill the same roll as cannons?
There are a few options and I think a real solution could be derived from a mix of them. They concentrate on sustainable, reliable damage across a broad spectrum of situations rather than simply increasing raw damage output in ideal situations.
1) Decrease their power drain: Rather than give raw numbers, I simply suggest that single and double-beam arrays have a shallower DPS curve than they do now. Sustaining fire with 6 single-beam arrays should give me a base DPS of somewhere between 65-75% of the first volley, rather than the 60-65% that I usually see if I run my ship without item or set bonuses to weapon power.
2) Power Projection: Increase the base damage of beams from 60% to 80% at maximum range. 1 on 1 this trait, combined with movement debuffs to help keep range, will allow a beam ship to keep an cannon-armed rival at a more advantageous distance part of the time. X v X this trait will mean cruisers and science ships can work together to deal good damage output from a variety of ranges to a single target.
3) Accuracy Increase: Nothing major here, either. The idea is simply to make sure that beams simply miss a bit less often. Or, perhaps, give them a large accuracy boost when attacking smaller targets, like fighters or torpedoes. A small boost to crit chance wouldn't hurt, but isn't necessary, I think.
4) Increase Proc Occurance and Severity: Cannons already have the biggest, best raw DPS and, honestly, something being blown apart by concentrated cannon fire isn't going to be bothered overmuch by the occasional plasma fire or system power drain. A cruiser or science ship, on the other hand, takes longer to kill stuff and will find the procs more useful overall, so let them generate those procs more often.
5) Give BOffs an ability with will increase beam weapons' effectiveness against a single ship for a short period of time. Put it on a shared cooldown timer with BFaW or make it the same level, which will encourage captains to pick one or the other as the situation demands it. I would actually encourage an accuracy/proc buff rather than a straight dps buff for a change of flavor. A phaser barrage that leaves half a ship's systems offline for a second or two or polaron volley that makes a target's power levels tank temporarily would be fun and wouldn't steal the cannon's thunder.
That's just my thoughts.
*EDIT: In the interests of avoiding confusion, what I am referring to is that, given the BOff abilities that boost how many cannon shots can be directed at a single target, cannons have more opportunities to score a proc-inducing critical NOT that the base percentage is higher per weapon.
Read most of this thread and thought I'd pitch in.
First a disclaimer: I am not a super-leet PVP guy. I just like math and game design.
The biggest problem I am seeing isn't that beams don't do enough damage, it's that it's hard to sustain it and that beam BOff abilities don't seem to give them much extra punch. Cannons tend to be more efficient, higher dps, higher proc-chance* weapons with BOff abilities that can boost that enormously.
I don't think cannons should change. I like their flavor and I think they work.
Just to make sure well understand what you're talking about. When you say "cannons" are you meaning just DHC/DC or are you also including single cannons and turrets?
Read most of this thread and thought I'd pitch in.
First a disclaimer: I am not a super-leet PVP guy. I just like math and game design.
The biggest problem I am seeing isn't that beams don't do enough damage, it's that it's hard to sustain it and that beam BOff abilities don't seem to give them much extra punch. Cannons tend to be more efficient, higher dps, higher proc-chance* weapons with BOff abilities that can boost that enormously.
I don't think cannons should change. I like their flavor and I think they work.
Beams should change, but not in a way that makes them effectively wide-angle cannons.
So, what can be done to make beams attractive for use in PVP without having them fulfill the same roll as cannons?
There are a few options and I think a real solution could be derived from a mix of them. They concentrate on sustainable, reliable damage across a broad spectrum of situations rather than simply increasing raw damage output in ideal situations.
1) Decrease their power drain: Rather than give raw numbers, I simply suggest that single and double-beam arrays have a shallower DPS curve than they do now. Sustaining fire with 6 single-beam arrays should give me a base DPS of somewhere between 65-75% of the first volley, rather than the 60-65% that I usually see if I run my ship without item or set bonuses to weapon power.
2) Power Projection: Increase the base damage of beams from 60% to 80% at maximum range. 1 on 1 this trait, combined with movement debuffs to help keep range, will allow a beam ship to keep an cannon-armed rival at a more advantageous distance part of the time. X v X this trait will mean cruisers and science ships can work together to deal good damage output from a variety of ranges to a single target.
3) Accuracy Increase: Nothing major here, either. The idea is simply to make sure that beams simply miss a bit less often. Or, perhaps, give them a large accuracy boost when attacking smaller targets, like fighters or torpedoes. A small boost to crit chance wouldn't hurt, but isn't necessary, I think.
4) Increase Proc Occurance and Severity: Cannons already have the biggest, best raw DPS and, honestly, something being blown apart by concentrated cannon fire isn't going to be bothered overmuch by the occasional plasma fire or system power drain. A cruiser or science ship, on the other hand, takes longer to kill stuff and will find the procs more useful overall, so let them generate those procs more often.
5) Give BOffs an ability with will increase beam weapons' effectiveness against a single ship for a short period of time. Put it on a shared cooldown timer with BFaW or make it the same level, which will encourage captains to pick one or the other as the situation demands it. I would actually encourage an accuracy/proc buff rather than a straight dps buff for a change of flavor. A phaser barrage that leaves half a ship's systems offline for a second or two or polaron volley that makes a target's power levels tank temporarily would be fun and wouldn't steal the cannon's thunder.
That's just my thoughts.
*EDIT: In the interests of avoiding confusion, what I am referring to is that, given the BOff abilities that boost how many cannon shots can be directed at a single target, cannons have more opportunities to score a proc-inducing critical NOT that the base percentage is higher per weapon.
Just to make sure well understand what you're talking about. When you say "cannons" are you meaning just DHC/DC or are you also including single cannons and turrets?
Single cannons even do more than beams. The damage type says less but the DPS is higher. DPS is what you need to wear down shields or destroy hull faster. Beams don't do hardly TRIBBLE to hull. In the canon Star Trek world, cannons and beams do the same amount of damage with different looking effects. The only reason players tend to arm all their escorts and battlecruisers with cannons is because they are the quickest way to deliver damage. This has caused an imbalance and made people choose one type of ship over another. If weapon types were more balanced, then you would see more beams being employed on escorts and battlecruisers and more ships would be able to share in the damage dealing.
Because beams weren't cutting it anymore for my Science captain... Target whatsystems now?... I switched to an all turret build.
It is the shizznit. I'm dealing far more more in the way of ouchies to the game's mobs than before with beam arrays, and that's with the weapons that are supposed to suck and you should only use for the proc. That's in regular play, I can't imagine it being any better in PvP or STFs.
Was getting frustrated with tiny firing arc and short effective range of dual cannons on my dreadnaught.
Replaced dual cannons with dual beams, and replaced scatter and rapid fire with fire at will.
Lined up a group of enemies, turned on my fire at will, watched weapon power level dive from 125 to 50 despite being under the influence of plasmonic leech, EPTW, and Dreadnaught's innate +10 to weapons.
This does not happen with scatter volley.
Working as intended?
Y'know, if we could just get the Omega Weapon Amplifier as an ability that we can turn on for 10 seconds with a cooldown of 30 seconds, which is about the same duty cycle that it already (randomly) has...
Beams have drain problem in STO combat. It needs to be fixed.
Doesnt matter though since the Tac hating torch wieldings players will see Tacs,DHCs and Escorts nerfed into the basement for the sins of working well we will all be playing Cruisers, cruisers, science and thier vessels in the months ahead until the playerbase gets bored, pissed or whatever and complains about how weak tacs are having forgotten how it all got to that point anyways.
Its the ugly truth Ive noticed about this forums and the game. Just a cpntiuos circle of nerfing buffing nerfing buffing... But little balance.
My Sci ship uses 3 dual beam arrays and 3 turrets. I do normal STF's and I notice that while I don't do nearly as much damage as an escort (the difference is obvious, I don't need a parser) I do notice that I seem to routinely out-damage cruisers. I don't know why because they have more weapon slots than I do.
My Sci ship uses 3 dual beam arrays and 3 turrets. I do normal STF's and I notice that while I don't do nearly as much damage as an escort (the difference is obvious, I don't need a parser) I do notice that I seem to routinely out-damage cruisers. I don't know why because they have more weapon slots than I do.
- You have less energy drain, far less than a broadside beamer
- Sensor Analysis
(While it is epic and incredibly well reasoned, I will refrain from quoting this post in its entirety.)
I couldn't agree more. Your solutions offer both parties something valuable -- cannon wielders get to keep the DPS crown, while beam users get a serious improvement in effectiveness. Most importantly, however, your solutions focus on each weapon behaving differently.
Having beams work just like stretched out cannons isn't the solution, and I think squatsauce hit the nail on the head. Making beams better for certain situations and cannons better for others is. Right now, as the game stands, beams are less effective in every situation imaginable -- those of us who've tested escorts with beams or dual beam banks know this. Balance should come in making each weapon type unique in its effects and range of uses.
I list the following proposal (based on suggestions listed earlier in the thread).
__________________________________________________
Single Beam Array
> 180 degree arc, low dps
Dual Beam Bank
> 90 degree arc, medium dps Dual Heavy Beam Bank ----> 45 degree arc, high dps Beam Turret
> 360 degree arc, low dps
Single Cannon
> 180 degree arc, low dps
Dual Cannon
> 90 degree arc, medium dps
Dual Heavy Cannon
> 45 degree arc, high dps
Cannon Turret
> 360 degree arc, low dps
New Weapon Types:
Dual Heavy Beam Bank and Beam Turret (equivalent of the Dual Heavy Cannon and Cannon Turret respectively).
__________________________________________________
Single Beams/Cannons and Dual Beams/Cannons share an equal amount of power drain (10 per weapon). Dual Beams/Cannons have a higher dps potential than Single due to it's narrower firing arc. Best suited for ships with a low turn rate.
Dual Beams/Cannons have the same power drain as Single, with increased dps potential, and a narrower firing arc. Best suited for ships with an average turn rate.
Dual Heavy Beams/Cannons have a higher power drain (12-14 per weapon), with the highest dps potential, and the narrowest firing arc. Best suited for ships with a high turn rate.
__________________________________________________
The above changes, effectively removes the limitation of only having cannons on Escorts. Since the inception of Star Trek Online, this limitation has gradually been pushed aside. Certain Cruisers already have the ability to use cannons, as do certain Science ships or Carriers.
Cannons will have a higher rate of fire than beams, whereas beam weapons will have higher damage per shot fired.
The changes are aimed at leveling the playing field between various weapon types (and in some cases, adding new weapon types to the game, such as the Dual Heavy Beam Bank, and the Beam Turrets), and allowing the player to choose the flavor for his/her ship as they see fit. (thanks alexindcobra)
Two equally geared ships (setup as beam ship vs cannon ship) should theoretically have the same overall dps potential, with the cannon setup being more burst dps, and the beam setup being more sustained dps.
__________________________________________________
Another result of the above, is making ships appear "more canon" while not making them substantially weaker/stronger than others. A Prometheus Class (thou an Escort by STO standards), is more appropriately fitted with beam weaponry, while a Defiant Class (also an Escort) is more appropriate with cannon weaponry. Overall, the two ships should have a similar dps potential if equally geared.
..... However I still believe the weapon restrictions should be more widespread, keep certain weapons on certain ships only, and then alter how the weapons work to make them better tailored to that ship-class....
I used to think that way, but my hopes are that by opening up DHCs to fed cruisers people will figure out why some weapons are limited to some ships, its really all about turning ability... except for some of the slowest KDF ships, but those are still allowed to mount DHCs for the sake of faction flavor.
Besides, for all I know someone might really get a kick out of using a all DHC/turret fed cruiser, who am I to tell them what they can or cannot try? I will say my willingness to throw all restrictions to the wind is in part due to STO being so clearly non canon though, we have to work with what we have.
Y'know, if we could just get the Omega Weapon Amplifier as an ability that we can turn on for 10 seconds with a cooldown of 30 seconds, which is about the same duty cycle that it already (randomly) has...
Dual Heavy Beam Bank ----> 45 degree arc, high dps Beam Turret
> 360 degree arc, low dps
Who is the DHBB aimed at? Can you imagine any cruiser using a 45 degree weapon effectively? I can see some of the nimbler Sci Vessels using it, but nothing with a cruiser hull, with the possible exception of the Galaxy-X.
Who is the DHBB aimed at? Can you imagine any cruiser using a 45 degree weapon effectively? I can see some of the nimbler Sci Vessels using it, but nothing with a cruiser hull, with the possible exception of the Galaxy-X.
As I noted in my example, certain Escorts may be more suited with beam weaponry as opposed to cannons, such as the Prometheus, or even the Akira Class. In fact, the only known FED ship to use cannons, is the Defiant, and even then, it has a mixture of beams and cannons. "Turrets" are unique to STO, and not even remotely canon to Trek.
couldnt agree more. i by myself am flying a defiant fleet version with cannons everywhere. i tried other ships like the excelsior (love this one) but it just makes no sense.. i always switched back to escorts because with beams, i was so slow in doing damage. doesnt make much fun. i would love to play one of the big ships but they are a backdraw compared to my defiant in almost any way. even if they have double the shield and can heal themself, it makes no fun. so there are 2 situations:
1. the other beam ship is a healer and the only thing he can do is heal himself and i cannot destroy him
or
2. the other beam ship is not a healer, has some attacks that may scratch my shield a bit but without support of other ships, he wont ever destroy me. most likely i will destroy him.
there is no situation, where one of those big ships would harm me seriously (except when i have a bad day and my captain skills are somewhere else but not on the bridge). there are of course some exceptions here and there but the biggest amount of players with beam ships have no chance.
As I noted in my example, certain Escorts may be more suited with beam weaponry as opposed to cannons, such as the Prometheus, or even the Akira Class. In fact, the only known FED ship to use cannons, is the Defiant, and even then, it has a mixture of beams and cannons. "Turrets" are unique to STO, and not even remotely canon to Trek.
hmm what about that destroyer? (that ugly one, dont recall the name of it)
Beams are for cruisers end of the deal . They work fine since they allow you to fight with something else beside your front shield .
Cannons have decent DPS but if you don't have endgame items or you miss a a button you can become dead really fast . Put up some server lag and a 2-3 medium enemies that spawn above you and you'll be dead very very fast .
It is not "mockery" to simply point out that the design intention between any game is entertaining of all players, and that when that does not work, then maybe, possibly, there's something wrong with the game. It is also not "mockery" to say this in a less direct manner.
If I have offended you, I apologize.
"It is not "mockery" to simply point out that the design intention between any game is entertaining of all players"
Therefore, if you do not enjoy the ROLE of a Cruiser Captain, do not fly a cruiser. Some people actually enjoy the role of a cruiser captain, I am personally not one of them, therefore, I fly escorts and science ships.
1. less power drain
2. more dmg
3. more acc definitely
4. increase in frequency of fire
5. maybe bigger arc 270-275 degree :rolleyes:
Less power drain equals more damage. I really believe all beams need is an overhaul/fix to the way weapon drain works. When used in conjunction with Nadion Inversion (turns off drain), beam arrays do quite respectable damage if you can get a bunch of them on target. Maybe, maybe, they could use a reduction in damage falloff rate in acknowledgement of the fact that most ships which would want to use them have really poor agility. Which would again equate to more damage on average.
Beams are for cruisers end of the deal . They work fine since they allow you to fight with something else beside your front shield
Uh. What. A beam array broadside cruiser will always want their side shield to the enemy, which means the same shield facing is always taking damage. These ships are not agile enough to choose where to get hit.
Less power drain equals more damage. I really believe all beams need is an overhaul/fix to the way weapon drain works. When used in conjunction with Nadion Inversion (turns off drain), beam arrays do quite respectable damage if you can get a bunch of them on target. Maybe, maybe, they could use a reduction in damage falloff rate in acknowledgement of the fact that most ships which would want to use them have really poor agility. Which would again equate to more damage on average.
Uh. What. A beam array broadside cruiser will always want their side shield to the enemy, which means the same shield facing is always taking damage. These ships are not agile enough to choose where to get hit.
Nadion Inversion has a cd of 3 min its too long and by more dmg I meant the basic dmg:)
Comments
I was asking for a source mate, not speculation.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Each weapon type has its own unique proc ability.
Why shouldn't beam weapons have a higher % chance to proc this effect? Everyone right now hasa 2.5% chance to proc one of these effects. Why not allow beams to have a 5%-10% chance to proc per hit.
Beams should not do comparable dmg to cannons BUT the unique effects of each weapon type should be MUCH higher as an alternative.
I think that would give beams and this game a much more diverse flavor in combat/dmg than we have now.
I think the sticking point is that Beamers (come on, come ON, catch on as an STO meme!), or at least a lot of them, want to restrict their newfangled Heavy Beams to cruisers only.
Anything short of a Starbase Phaser Lance/Wave Motion Gun/Reflex Cannon/Deathstar Megalaser should be available to all ships. Heck, I've come to realize that fed cruisers should even have access to DHCs if they wanted to make some sort of close in ultra slow brick build. Not sure how good it'd be,but why limit player's options?
Edit: As a sidenote, who else would prefer to see something like a Macross styled range of ships than more of the known trek bad guy ships in the lockboxes? Good grief, gimme my X-304 skin for the Armitage already!! GRRRR!!!
I'm quite happy with a simple change to beam drain or even just the drain mechanics since Flekh taught me how to play cruisers (good guy Flekh, knows his way around the game)
And here is where you and I differ greatly in opinion. But before I go into that, I will add in a small note that fed cruisers cannot use DHCs. That is for escorts, battlecruisers, destroyers, and ONE cruiser and ONE science ship. So sorry to say, builds are already limited for most cruisers, and most science ships.
Also I still think that it's a little odd that every ship can use every weapon type. That doesn't really make sense. Ok, nevermind it does, but to have every single ship able to use every weapon with exactly the same effectiveness? That's just whacked. If you look at how some of these weapons work, that makes little to no sense at all.
Of course then one has to consider canon vs game. And game wins out every time, since as I have stated dozens of times, this game is not canon, which removes a lot of arguments XD. However I still believe the weapon restrictions should be more widespread, keep certain weapons on certain ships only, and then alter how the weapons work to make them better tailored to that ship-class.
But that's a different debate for another time.
When science vessels get to be on top, they will bring pie, probably rhubarb.
I don't know if I am a so called "beamer", but I would like to see them be more capable at dishing out damage. Do I want them to equal DHC's? No, I just want to see that beams, turrets and single cannons can do more damage than players can soak with resistance.
When Science ships are on top space will be torn apart, twisted in more ways than one can imagine and moulded back together and the universe will cease to exist as we know it... :P I look forward to it
i think I am seeing a 15 second for the cannon scatter and 20 for the bfaw when running two copies.
First a disclaimer: I am not a super-leet PVP guy. I just like math and game design.
The biggest problem I am seeing isn't that beams don't do enough damage, it's that it's hard to sustain it and that beam BOff abilities don't seem to give them much extra punch. Cannons tend to be more efficient, higher dps, higher proc-chance* weapons with BOff abilities that can boost that enormously.
I don't think cannons should change. I like their flavor and I think they work.
Beams should change, but not in a way that makes them effectively wide-angle cannons.
So, what can be done to make beams attractive for use in PVP without having them fulfill the same roll as cannons?
There are a few options and I think a real solution could be derived from a mix of them. They concentrate on sustainable, reliable damage across a broad spectrum of situations rather than simply increasing raw damage output in ideal situations.
1) Decrease their power drain: Rather than give raw numbers, I simply suggest that single and double-beam arrays have a shallower DPS curve than they do now. Sustaining fire with 6 single-beam arrays should give me a base DPS of somewhere between 65-75% of the first volley, rather than the 60-65% that I usually see if I run my ship without item or set bonuses to weapon power.
2) Power Projection: Increase the base damage of beams from 60% to 80% at maximum range. 1 on 1 this trait, combined with movement debuffs to help keep range, will allow a beam ship to keep an cannon-armed rival at a more advantageous distance part of the time. X v X this trait will mean cruisers and science ships can work together to deal good damage output from a variety of ranges to a single target.
3) Accuracy Increase: Nothing major here, either. The idea is simply to make sure that beams simply miss a bit less often. Or, perhaps, give them a large accuracy boost when attacking smaller targets, like fighters or torpedoes. A small boost to crit chance wouldn't hurt, but isn't necessary, I think.
4) Increase Proc Occurance and Severity: Cannons already have the biggest, best raw DPS and, honestly, something being blown apart by concentrated cannon fire isn't going to be bothered overmuch by the occasional plasma fire or system power drain. A cruiser or science ship, on the other hand, takes longer to kill stuff and will find the procs more useful overall, so let them generate those procs more often.
5) Give BOffs an ability with will increase beam weapons' effectiveness against a single ship for a short period of time. Put it on a shared cooldown timer with BFaW or make it the same level, which will encourage captains to pick one or the other as the situation demands it. I would actually encourage an accuracy/proc buff rather than a straight dps buff for a change of flavor. A phaser barrage that leaves half a ship's systems offline for a second or two or polaron volley that makes a target's power levels tank temporarily would be fun and wouldn't steal the cannon's thunder.
That's just my thoughts.
*EDIT: In the interests of avoiding confusion, what I am referring to is that, given the BOff abilities that boost how many cannon shots can be directed at a single target, cannons have more opportunities to score a proc-inducing critical NOT that the base percentage is higher per weapon.
Just to make sure well understand what you're talking about. When you say "cannons" are you meaning just DHC/DC or are you also including single cannons and turrets?
Agree with all the above!
Single cannons even do more than beams. The damage type says less but the DPS is higher. DPS is what you need to wear down shields or destroy hull faster. Beams don't do hardly TRIBBLE to hull. In the canon Star Trek world, cannons and beams do the same amount of damage with different looking effects. The only reason players tend to arm all their escorts and battlecruisers with cannons is because they are the quickest way to deliver damage. This has caused an imbalance and made people choose one type of ship over another. If weapon types were more balanced, then you would see more beams being employed on escorts and battlecruisers and more ships would be able to share in the damage dealing.
It is the shizznit. I'm dealing far more more in the way of ouchies to the game's mobs than before with beam arrays, and that's with the weapons that are supposed to suck and you should only use for the proc. That's in regular play, I can't imagine it being any better in PvP or STFs.
To sum up: Beams do need some help.
Replaced dual cannons with dual beams, and replaced scatter and rapid fire with fire at will.
Lined up a group of enemies, turned on my fire at will, watched weapon power level dive from 125 to 50 despite being under the influence of plasmonic leech, EPTW, and Dreadnaught's innate +10 to weapons.
This does not happen with scatter volley.
Working as intended?
Y'know, if we could just get the Omega Weapon Amplifier as an ability that we can turn on for 10 seconds with a cooldown of 30 seconds, which is about the same duty cycle that it already (randomly) has...
Doesnt matter though since the Tac hating torch wieldings players will see Tacs,DHCs and Escorts nerfed into the basement for the sins of working well we will all be playing Cruisers, cruisers, science and thier vessels in the months ahead until the playerbase gets bored, pissed or whatever and complains about how weak tacs are having forgotten how it all got to that point anyways.
Its the ugly truth Ive noticed about this forums and the game. Just a cpntiuos circle of nerfing buffing nerfing buffing... But little balance.
R.I.P
- You have less energy drain, far less than a broadside beamer
- Sensor Analysis
I couldn't agree more. Your solutions offer both parties something valuable -- cannon wielders get to keep the DPS crown, while beam users get a serious improvement in effectiveness. Most importantly, however, your solutions focus on each weapon behaving differently.
Having beams work just like stretched out cannons isn't the solution, and I think squatsauce hit the nail on the head. Making beams better for certain situations and cannons better for others is. Right now, as the game stands, beams are less effective in every situation imaginable -- those of us who've tested escorts with beams or dual beam banks know this. Balance should come in making each weapon type unique in its effects and range of uses.
I salute your reasoning and your proposal.
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Single Beam Array
> 180 degree arc, low dps
Dual Beam Bank
> 90 degree arc, medium dps
Dual Heavy Beam Bank ----> 45 degree arc, high dps
Beam Turret
> 360 degree arc, low dps
Single Cannon
> 180 degree arc, low dps
Dual Cannon
> 90 degree arc, medium dps
Dual Heavy Cannon
> 45 degree arc, high dps
Cannon Turret
> 360 degree arc, low dps
New Weapon Types:
Dual Heavy Beam Bank and Beam Turret (equivalent of the Dual Heavy Cannon and Cannon Turret respectively).
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Single Beams/Cannons and Dual Beams/Cannons share an equal amount of power drain (10 per weapon). Dual Beams/Cannons have a higher dps potential than Single due to it's narrower firing arc. Best suited for ships with a low turn rate.
Dual Beams/Cannons have the same power drain as Single, with increased dps potential, and a narrower firing arc. Best suited for ships with an average turn rate.
Dual Heavy Beams/Cannons have a higher power drain (12-14 per weapon), with the highest dps potential, and the narrowest firing arc. Best suited for ships with a high turn rate.
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The above changes, effectively removes the limitation of only having cannons on Escorts. Since the inception of Star Trek Online, this limitation has gradually been pushed aside. Certain Cruisers already have the ability to use cannons, as do certain Science ships or Carriers.
Cannons will have a higher rate of fire than beams, whereas beam weapons will have higher damage per shot fired.
The changes are aimed at leveling the playing field between various weapon types (and in some cases, adding new weapon types to the game, such as the Dual Heavy Beam Bank, and the Beam Turrets), and allowing the player to choose the flavor for his/her ship as they see fit. (thanks alexindcobra)
Two equally geared ships (setup as beam ship vs cannon ship) should theoretically have the same overall dps potential, with the cannon setup being more burst dps, and the beam setup being more sustained dps.
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Another result of the above, is making ships appear "more canon" while not making them substantially weaker/stronger than others. A Prometheus Class (thou an Escort by STO standards), is more appropriately fitted with beam weaponry, while a Defiant Class (also an Escort) is more appropriate with cannon weaponry. Overall, the two ships should have a similar dps potential if equally geared.
I used to think that way, but my hopes are that by opening up DHCs to fed cruisers people will figure out why some weapons are limited to some ships, its really all about turning ability... except for some of the slowest KDF ships, but those are still allowed to mount DHCs for the sake of faction flavor.
Besides, for all I know someone might really get a kick out of using a all DHC/turret fed cruiser, who am I to tell them what they can or cannot try? I will say my willingness to throw all restrictions to the wind is in part due to STO being so clearly non canon though, we have to work with what we have.
Heck no! We do not need more CDs in this game.
Who is the DHBB aimed at? Can you imagine any cruiser using a 45 degree weapon effectively? I can see some of the nimbler Sci Vessels using it, but nothing with a cruiser hull, with the possible exception of the Galaxy-X.
As I noted in my example, certain Escorts may be more suited with beam weaponry as opposed to cannons, such as the Prometheus, or even the Akira Class. In fact, the only known FED ship to use cannons, is the Defiant, and even then, it has a mixture of beams and cannons. "Turrets" are unique to STO, and not even remotely canon to Trek.
1. the other beam ship is a healer and the only thing he can do is heal himself and i cannot destroy him
or
2. the other beam ship is not a healer, has some attacks that may scratch my shield a bit but without support of other ships, he wont ever destroy me. most likely i will destroy him.
there is no situation, where one of those big ships would harm me seriously (except when i have a bad day and my captain skills are somewhere else but not on the bridge). there are of course some exceptions here and there but the biggest amount of players with beam ships have no chance.
hmm what about that destroyer? (that ugly one, dont recall the name of it)
1. less power drain
2. more dmg
3. more acc definitely
4. increase in frequency of fire
5. maybe bigger arc 270-275 degree :rolleyes:
Cannons have decent DPS but if you don't have endgame items or you miss a a button you can become dead really fast . Put up some server lag and a 2-3 medium enemies that spawn above you and you'll be dead very very fast .
"It is not "mockery" to simply point out that the design intention between any game is entertaining of all players"
Therefore, if you do not enjoy the ROLE of a Cruiser Captain, do not fly a cruiser. Some people actually enjoy the role of a cruiser captain, I am personally not one of them, therefore, I fly escorts and science ships.
Less power drain equals more damage. I really believe all beams need is an overhaul/fix to the way weapon drain works. When used in conjunction with Nadion Inversion (turns off drain), beam arrays do quite respectable damage if you can get a bunch of them on target. Maybe, maybe, they could use a reduction in damage falloff rate in acknowledgement of the fact that most ships which would want to use them have really poor agility. Which would again equate to more damage on average.
Uh. What. A beam array broadside cruiser will always want their side shield to the enemy, which means the same shield facing is always taking damage. These ships are not agile enough to choose where to get hit.
Nadion Inversion has a cd of 3 min its too long and by more dmg I meant the basic dmg:)