You just changed a cannon vs beam post into a cruiser vs escort post.
That's because Beams vs. Cannons posts really boil down to cruisers vs. escorts. If not as an original intent by the OP, then definitely by most of the posters. I won't disagree that beams may in fact need a rework; but by and large, most of those clamoring for such a change believe it will be a huge DPS gain for beams, and by extension for cruisers.
The changes most often talked about will not be such game changers. They could reduce the energy cost of firing a beam array by 2 this very moment and its impact would not even be felt by most of the cruiser playerbase.
What would be felt immediately by everyone though? A turn buff to fed cruisers (AKA: Space Whales) !! Lets try to push for that instead.
But it does not change the fact that the damage difference is still in favour of cannons outside of very small difference beyond 7km (I think) that favours beams. But difference is minimal. So below 3km cannons decisively overpower beams. Between 3-7km cannons either are more powerfull or just as powerfull as beams and beams become more powerfull above 7km. But the difference is minimal and does not correspond to the advantage cannons have below 3km.
So the dropdown in power between beams and cannons does not really matter.
Only the BOff abilities avialible to buff cannons make the difference seem negliable.
Cannons drop in damage much worse than beams outside of 2km, period. The BOff abilities of CRF/CSV plus Tac Captain abilities make up for that drop off.
Beams are better at close range and extreme range but lack similiar BOff style buffs to make up for thier drop off. This is why I push for a beam version of CRF
Take a Escort into a test mission and fire at 10km without any Buffs and see for yourself.
Do the same with beams and note the results. Beams should do more damage at range.
Then do it with Buffs for both and note the results.
Also - I can sit with my Patrol Escort with white Mk XI DHCs at 10km and still outDPS a cruiser with purple Mk XI or higher beams just because cannons are that much more powerfull and the boost from CRF and even CSV plus is something unreachable for cruisers.
So my escort outDPV (ok) and outDPS (not ok) cruisers at any range.
In one shot? Doubtful if not out right wrong.
The drain of beam will scuttle thier damage at any range under a constant fire scenario. Thats most likely why you would see better damage from whites over purples at 10km.
Try it agai on a single shot basis and stell us what you find.
Unless something has changed this already close to the case. Cannons drop off much faster than beams so at 10k beams do aproximately 65% of thier base damage while cannons do aproximately 35% of thier base damage.
The difference is that both beams and cannons are most effective at close ranges, at 1 km and 2 km respectively.
Both beam and cannon users are thus encouraged to get closer - but because base damage is so low on beams compared to cannons, they actually have stronger encouragement to get up close.
If beams had no drop off up to 5 km, then suddenly their ideal range is 5 km, and it really does become a "beams distance", "cannons higher damage but closer" issue. As it currently stands, all weapons are encouraged to be used up close.
(I'm not in a cruiser by the way, my last experience with beams was a single Phaser DBB in my Vesta for Subsystem Targeting and Overload, and the Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array in my JHEC for the Hyperflux and Overload. Improving beams won't really change anything for me other than improving STF PUGs.)
You just changed a cannon vs beam post into a cruiser vs escort post.
Because they always inadvertently become these. Period. Every single thread that has tried to comment on beams (even those like one I made about ONLY beams) very soon turned into beams vs cannons (despite efforts by multiple posters), which soon became beamcruisers vs cannonscorts, which turned into cruisers vs escorts, and then the usual forum war that follows.
It's simply because you cannot have one without causing the other. It's the nature of the current game to have that happen. Cruisers will feel sluggish and gimped compared to the superscorts you see zooming around. Escorts will always feel that they deserve the top spot. And so on and so forth. End result: constant useless bickering.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I just swapped over to an Aux2Batt build cycling FAW and AP:B that thing is evil (I'm tempted to throw DEM into the keybind) the only problem I have is reworking the heals to me them rather more reliable
Because they always inadvertently become these. Period. Every single thread that has tried to comment on beams (even those like one I made about ONLY beams) very soon turned into beams vs cannons (despite efforts by multiple posters), which soon became beamcruisers vs cannonscorts, which turned into cruisers vs escorts, and then the usual forum war that follows.
It's simply because you cannot have one without causing the other. It's the nature of the current game to have that happen. Cruisers will feel sluggish and gimped compared to the superscorts you see zooming around. Escorts will always feel that they deserve the top spot. And so on and so forth. End result: constant useless bickering.
Herectic, just leave it it's for the best. I've found that despite that nearly everything is the game can be put down to "Do you really know how to use it?" people cannot accept that statement as an answer. We should just step away and let nonsense reign here. Okay mate?
Also - I can sit with my Patrol Escort with white Mk XI DHCs at 10km and still outDPS a cruiser with purple Mk XI or higher beams just because cannons are that much more powerfull and the boost from CRF and even CSV plus is something unreachable for cruisers.
So my escort outDPV (ok) and outDPS (not ok) cruisers at any range.
Yup, you might be able to still do slightly more dmg with 4DHCs/3Turrets than his 8 beams (for the sake of example and if you're the same kind of captain, which is a given).
But you're missing an important point. You (I quote) sit.
Because in the long term it's the only way to keep your DHCs on target without doing flybys, which will ruin your dps.
The Cruiser is flying in circles at full speed, all the time, at full Defense.
Under heavy fire the Cruiser is clearly superior and deals more dps, since he can simply keep firing, while a moving Escort cannot maintain constant fire on a given target without losing Defense and consequently dying.
I mean.. I'm not telling this secret to many people: but putting beams on an Escort isn't necessarily wrong if you need stable dps and a stable defense bonus.
Only speaking for myself, when I flew a cannon escort, I usually sat in front of the target and rarely got bothered by it. If I did move, it was creaping forward or moving in reverse. Never had that much problem dying to anything. If I did get tagged, I'd do a quick evasive, hit my heals, and come back in.
For full disclosure, I was an eng character, with full cannons and usually attack pattern beta, cannon scatter volley, and torpedo spread for the first volley. I also managed to survive the plasma torp spread of death from the Borg, and I was in a defiant for all of this.
Also, pretty sure that escorts that fly around get more defence than a cruiser since they have a higher speed.
Ironically, the best match up of weapons to ships would be to have escorts have beams, since they should have to manuever around to survive and beams lets them do that while still doing damange. And then Cruisers should have duel cannons, since they can get up close, sit there and pound away at the enemy.
Only speaking for myself, when I flew a cannon escort, I usually sat in front of the target and rarely got bothered by it. If I did move, it was creaping forward or moving in reverse. Never had that much problem dying to anything. If I did get tagged, I'd do a quick evasive, hit my heals, and come back in.
For full disclosure, I was an eng character, with full cannons and usually attack pattern beta, cannon scatter volley, and torpedo spread for the first volley. I also managed to survive the plasma torp spread of death from the Borg, and I was in a defiant for all of this.
Also, pretty sure that escorts that fly around get more defence than a cruiser since they have a higher speed.
Ironically, the best match up of weapons to ships would be to have escorts have beams, since they should have to manuever around to survive and beams lets them do that while still doing damange. And then Cruisers should have duel cannons, since they can get up close, sit there and pound away at the enemy.
I regret to not have made "Under heavy fire" bold, because that is the crux.
If left alone the Escort is plain best, but under attack Escorts are in trouble, which usually means moving or fleeing, which means losing some or all dps, et cetera.
Have an Eng Escort pilot aswell (in a Breen ship these days) and in retrospect I regret not having had much ability to use the Engineers improved tanking much, since Escort tanking always means moving and hence not always firing your DHCs.
Much happier with the Breen ship so I can actually survive moving slowly and taking a hit.
Cannons outdamage beams by a large amount but are balenced in escorts, i see no problems there
Beams need a little more Beef to be equal to the Same damage as cannons overall
They arnt
Beams also need a rapid fire like cannons have For Procs
Beams also need a equal power drain as cannons
Beams also deserve a Beam Turret for Procs
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The difference is that both beams and cannons are most effective at close ranges, at 1 km and 2 km respectively.
Both beam and cannon users are thus encouraged to get closer - but because base damage is so low on beams compared to cannons, they actually have stronger encouragement to get up close.
If beams had no drop off up to 5 km, then suddenly their ideal range is 5 km, and it really does become a "beams distance", "cannons higher damage but closer" issue. As it currently stands, all weapons are encouraged to be used up close.
(I'm not in a cruiser by the way, my last experience with beams was a single Phaser DBB in my Vesta for Subsystem Targeting and Overload, and the Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array in my JHEC for the Hyperflux and Overload. Improving beams won't really change anything for me other than improving STF PUGs.)
The real difiner is the BOff buffs availible to cannons are better than any beam buff (outside of BO) and the horrible drain mechanic that beams have in general.
Beams actually perform at the same % as cannons up close (meaning 100%) but also suffer less at ranges 7-10km, by a factor of nearly 25%. Beams are meant to be good up close and at long range with both weapon types being near equal in the middle ranges.
The most recent testing by some reflect this as true.
So the issue lies (imo) in the beams drain under constant fire use and the lack of supporti e BOff abilities.
Starting a beams drain at 5km and out will only cause the rise of runner builds that spend hier time straight lining away from a foe to keep them at range for the duration of combat and beams will still suffer from poor drain cuasing them to appear far worse in comparison to DHCs.
Escorts would respond to runner builds by using TB, GPGs and any other mode of movement debuffs, soon he cries of movement debuffs are too OP would rise up from the masses. No problem would be solved.
I regret to not have made "Under heavy fire" bold, because that is the crux.
If left alone the Escort is plain best, but under attack Escorts are in trouble, which usually means moving or fleeing, which means losing some or all dps, et cetera.
Have an Eng Escort pilot aswell (in a Breen ship these days) and in retrospect I regret not having had much ability to use the Engineers improved tanking much, since Escort tanking always means moving and hence not always firing your DHCs.
Much happier with the Breen ship so I can actually survive moving slowly and taking a hit.
Sorry, I should have made it more clear, I did survive heavy fire, many times and the only movement I did was creaping in from 10 KM, and then reversing back out to about 5KM, and then going back in. Again, I was a eng captain, so a tac might not be able to do this, but most of the tanking skills are BOFF based, not captain.
Beams actually perform at the same % as cannons up close (meaning 100%) but also suffer less at ranges 7-10km, by a factor of nearly 25%. Beams are meant to be good up close and at long range with both weapon types being near equal in the middle ranges.
The most recent testing by some reflect this as true.
So the issue lies (imo) in the beams drain under constant fire use and the lack of supporti e BOff abilities.
I don't argue that the beam energy drain is a problem, however, I question what you are saying about beam damage performing the same percent as cannon damage. Yes, beam damage is at a higher percent of total beam damage at longer range than cannon damage percent, but that is not comparing the same thing. It is comparing percent of total beam damage to percent of total cannon damage. Cannons outdamage beams out to 8 KM (Per this guy.) So the only area where beams are better than cannons is between 8 to 10 KM. Which is a pretty narrow band. If you want more equality, either cannon drop off needs to be increased, or beam drop off needs to be decreased, so that cannons rule inside 5 KM and beams rule outside of it. Actually if beam drop off didn't start until about 5KM, that would probably do it.
Sorry, I should have made it more clear, I did survive heavy fire, many times and the only movement I did was creaping in from 10 KM, and then reversing back out to about 5KM, and then going back in. Again, I was a eng captain, so a tac might not be able to do this, but most of the tanking skills are BOFF based, not captain.
I don't argue that the beam energy drain is a problem, however, I question what you are saying about beam damage performing the same percent as cannon damage. Yes, beam damage is at a higher percent of total beam damage at longer range than cannon damage percent, but that is not comparing the same thing. It is comparing percent of total beam damage to percent of total cannon damage. Cannons outdamage beams out to 8 KM (Per this guy.) So the only area where beams are better than cannons is between 8 to 10 KM. Which is a pretty narrow band. If you want more equality, either cannon drop off needs to be increased, or beam drop off needs to be decreased, so that cannons rule inside 5 KM and beams rule outside of it. Actually if beam drop off didn't start until about 5KM, that would probably do it.
check out the new testing in the PvP section done by Maelwyss (Bareel posts a link) for a more up to date series of results.
Even then though the difference is defined more by the Cannon BOff buffs availible to them.
Sorry, I should have made it more clear, I did survive heavy fire, many times and the only movement I did was creaping in from 10 KM, and then reversing back out to about 5KM, and then going back in. Again, I was a eng captain, so a tac might not be able to do this, but most of the tanking skills are BOFF based, not captain.
No, no - you're spot on, sacrificing just a tiny bit dps and getting Emergency Power to Shields instead of to Weapons with an Eng captain works wonders, but your dps overall will be ~20% lower than a Tacs
(mostly due to not having his crazy damage bonus abilities, altho the system-power tricks an Engineer has help).
And now, come on - how many times has Miracle Worker saved your ship?
Most will admit to being saved by it a lot, regardless of the ship type they use, but few are as grateful as the Eng Escorts!
No, no - you're spot on, sacrificing just a tiny bit dps and getting Emergency Power to Shields instead of to Weapons with an Eng captain works wonders, but your dps overall will be ~20% lower than a Tacs
(mostly due to not having his crazy damage bonus abilities, altho the system-power tricks an Engineer has help).
And now, come on - how many times has Miracle Worker saved your ship?
Most will admit to being saved by it a lot, regardless of the ship type they use, but few are as grateful as the Eng Escorts!
Just as an add-on to this: FPE with an Engineer as captain. That ship. Insanely hard for NPCs to destroy. FPEs are the most naturally tanky out of all the current escorts in game (just on paper, in actual combat might be a different story), so if you add on an engi captain, sufficed to say, it takes quite a while to destroy you, if you're ever destroyed at all.
Also it's BOff layout makes it perfect for a full cannon build. Sufficed to say, in my FPE, my engi captain can GET IT DONE. But the only catch here is that it's not as much fun to fly as my Odyssey XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Just as an add-on to this: FPE with an Engineer as captain. That ship. Insanely hard for NPCs to destroy. FPEs are the most naturally tanky out of all the current escorts in game (just on paper, in actual combat might be a different story), so if you add on an engi captain, sufficed to say, it takes quite a while to destroy you, if you're ever destroyed at all.
Also it's BOff layout makes it perfect for a full cannon build. Sufficed to say, in my FPE, my engi captain can GET IT DONE. But the only catch here is that it's not as much fun to fly as my Odyssey XD.
RE: Miracle Worker, I honestly don't know, but from what I remember, not that often. Then again my memory is foggy often about such things, so I'll give the point.
RE: the new testing data, if I got the right link, that's comparing a duel heavy cannon with a duel beam bank. And that does look better, but I was talking about beam arrays. Assuming that the same drop off applies to beam arrays as to DBBs then DHCs are the best from 1 to 4 KM, DBB are best from 5 to 10 KM, and beam arrays are always last until 7 or 8 KM, when they overtake DHCs. I still think that just looking at the range, beam arrays should star their drop at 5 KM. That gives them slightly less range advantage over the DBBs, give a bit more room to fend off cannons, and remain close but below DBBs out to 10KM. Again, just my opinion, but in the question of range, I think it would help.
The the drop off is the same regardless of weapon type. At 5km DHCs do 72.5% of thier damage while DBBs do 84% of thier damage at the same range
DBBs lose out only because CRF boosts DHCs better than Bfaw does and beams have a bad drain mechanic under constant fire.
Hence why I say the defficiency of beams does not lie in range modifiers.
Lower beams range drop to 2% and they would be doing 92% at km. A 20% difference in favor of beams instead of 12%.
I do not hink beamers will ever be happy until beam arrays do exactly the same damage as DHCs and that makes no sense to me in any balanced way.
They will be happy when they can get an unkillable brick that hardly has to move and can use long range devastating fire that does more damage than anything else. Which is not at all how STO is set up lol.
Honestly, the new dreadnought carrier is clearly meant to be a questionable attempt at just that, with its extra slow turning its pretty clear its meant as a big gun stand off artillery ship. Mount some DBBs in the front, turrets in the back and launch waves of fighters at your enemies. Of course, it trades damage potential for survivability, which is a trade most "beamers" (love that term btw) are extremely loath to do,
I just swapped over to an Aux2Batt build cycling FAW and AP:B that thing is evil (I'm tempted to throw DEM into the keybind) the only problem I have is reworking the heals to me them rather more reliable
Its vital to always keep in mind that your heals are also on shorter CDs, so be more liberal with them. Don't wait to be in deep trouble to use them because their effect will be less, if you are only lightly damaged pop off your heals anyway.
Though at thos point the debate has become redundant. Having given or agreed with the ideas of;
Decreasing the drain of beams
Creating a CRF BOff ability for beams
Lowering beams range modifier
Etc etc
I do not hink beamers will ever be happy until beam arrays do exactly the same damage as DHCs and that makes no sense to me in any balanced way.
Frankly, I wish they'd do away with the correlation of range-damage. Just simplify it so that if you're in range with a weapon, you're in range. If you're not, you're not. Maybe increase chance to miss the further away you are, and leave it at that
I do not think beamers will ever be happy until beam arrays do exactly the same damage as DHCs and that makes no sense to me in any balanced way.
Oh, I agree with this whole-heartedly. A lot of the pro-BA players want DHC level damage with BA level firing arcs and range diminishers. And a lot of con-BA players say "fk it, just fly a cannonscort".
A lot of the more sensible BA players say: reduce power drain, increase damage, or add a bloody HEAVY BA to counter the dual HEAVY cannons. And a lot of the more sensible con-BA players agree with this.
But as bareel was kind enough to point out, this won't be happening. It is after all, escorts online.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
1.) Beam arrays don't fire backward either. A cruiser equipped with beams will either have 3 arrays and a torpedo, or 4 arrays, to shoot at the escort riding their six. Which would do exactly nothing to it.
2.) The 5% of STO players that specialize in PVP should have a 5% stake in the game's balance decisions.
5% is probably excageration. I mean 5% of 2 million is like 100 000 dedicated PvP players. I do not know about other timezone, but I would be suprised if there is like 100 PvPlayers in my TZ.
And hasnt the last PvP Dev said that PvP is so small part of STO that removing it wont influence gameplay at all? So 5% sounds pretty optimistic.
Comments
That's because Beams vs. Cannons posts really boil down to cruisers vs. escorts. If not as an original intent by the OP, then definitely by most of the posters. I won't disagree that beams may in fact need a rework; but by and large, most of those clamoring for such a change believe it will be a huge DPS gain for beams, and by extension for cruisers.
The changes most often talked about will not be such game changers. They could reduce the energy cost of firing a beam array by 2 this very moment and its impact would not even be felt by most of the cruiser playerbase.
What would be felt immediately by everyone though? A turn buff to fed cruisers (AKA: Space Whales) !! Lets try to push for that instead.
Only the BOff abilities avialible to buff cannons make the difference seem negliable.
Cannons drop in damage much worse than beams outside of 2km, period. The BOff abilities of CRF/CSV plus Tac Captain abilities make up for that drop off.
Beams are better at close range and extreme range but lack similiar BOff style buffs to make up for thier drop off. This is why I push for a beam version of CRF
Take a Escort into a test mission and fire at 10km without any Buffs and see for yourself.
Do the same with beams and note the results. Beams should do more damage at range.
Then do it with Buffs for both and note the results.
R.I.P
In one shot? Doubtful if not out right wrong.
The drain of beam will scuttle thier damage at any range under a constant fire scenario. Thats most likely why you would see better damage from whites over purples at 10km.
Try it agai on a single shot basis and stell us what you find.
R.I.P
The difference is that both beams and cannons are most effective at close ranges, at 1 km and 2 km respectively.
Both beam and cannon users are thus encouraged to get closer - but because base damage is so low on beams compared to cannons, they actually have stronger encouragement to get up close.
If beams had no drop off up to 5 km, then suddenly their ideal range is 5 km, and it really does become a "beams distance", "cannons higher damage but closer" issue. As it currently stands, all weapons are encouraged to be used up close.
(I'm not in a cruiser by the way, my last experience with beams was a single Phaser DBB in my Vesta for Subsystem Targeting and Overload, and the Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array in my JHEC for the Hyperflux and Overload. Improving beams won't really change anything for me other than improving STF PUGs.)
Because they always inadvertently become these. Period. Every single thread that has tried to comment on beams (even those like one I made about ONLY beams) very soon turned into beams vs cannons (despite efforts by multiple posters), which soon became beamcruisers vs cannonscorts, which turned into cruisers vs escorts, and then the usual forum war that follows.
It's simply because you cannot have one without causing the other. It's the nature of the current game to have that happen. Cruisers will feel sluggish and gimped compared to the superscorts you see zooming around. Escorts will always feel that they deserve the top spot. And so on and so forth. End result: constant useless bickering.
Herectic, just leave it it's for the best. I've found that despite that nearly everything is the game can be put down to "Do you really know how to use it?" people cannot accept that statement as an answer. We should just step away and let nonsense reign here. Okay mate?
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Yup, you might be able to still do slightly more dmg with 4DHCs/3Turrets than his 8 beams (for the sake of example and if you're the same kind of captain, which is a given).
But you're missing an important point. You (I quote) sit.
Because in the long term it's the only way to keep your DHCs on target without doing flybys, which will ruin your dps.
The Cruiser is flying in circles at full speed, all the time, at full Defense.
Under heavy fire the Cruiser is clearly superior and deals more dps, since he can simply keep firing, while a moving Escort cannot maintain constant fire on a given target without losing Defense and consequently dying.
I mean.. I'm not telling this secret to many people: but putting beams on an Escort isn't necessarily wrong if you need stable dps and a stable defense bonus.
He's dead, Jim.
For full disclosure, I was an eng character, with full cannons and usually attack pattern beta, cannon scatter volley, and torpedo spread for the first volley. I also managed to survive the plasma torp spread of death from the Borg, and I was in a defiant for all of this.
Also, pretty sure that escorts that fly around get more defence than a cruiser since they have a higher speed.
Ironically, the best match up of weapons to ships would be to have escorts have beams, since they should have to manuever around to survive and beams lets them do that while still doing damange. And then Cruisers should have duel cannons, since they can get up close, sit there and pound away at the enemy.
Nouveau riche LTS member
I regret to not have made "Under heavy fire" bold, because that is the crux.
If left alone the Escort is plain best, but under attack Escorts are in trouble, which usually means moving or fleeing, which means losing some or all dps, et cetera.
Have an Eng Escort pilot aswell (in a Breen ship these days) and in retrospect I regret not having had much ability to use the Engineers improved tanking much, since Escort tanking always means moving and hence not always firing your DHCs.
Much happier with the Breen ship so I can actually survive moving slowly and taking a hit.
He's dead, Jim.
Cannons outdamage beams by a large amount but are balenced in escorts, i see no problems there
Beams need a little more Beef to be equal to the Same damage as cannons overall
They arnt
Beams also need a rapid fire like cannons have For Procs
Beams also need a equal power drain as cannons
Beams also deserve a Beam Turret for Procs
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The real difiner is the BOff buffs availible to cannons are better than any beam buff (outside of BO) and the horrible drain mechanic that beams have in general.
Beams actually perform at the same % as cannons up close (meaning 100%) but also suffer less at ranges 7-10km, by a factor of nearly 25%. Beams are meant to be good up close and at long range with both weapon types being near equal in the middle ranges.
The most recent testing by some reflect this as true.
So the issue lies (imo) in the beams drain under constant fire use and the lack of supporti e BOff abilities.
Starting a beams drain at 5km and out will only cause the rise of runner builds that spend hier time straight lining away from a foe to keep them at range for the duration of combat and beams will still suffer from poor drain cuasing them to appear far worse in comparison to DHCs.
Escorts would respond to runner builds by using TB, GPGs and any other mode of movement debuffs, soon he cries of movement debuffs are too OP would rise up from the masses. No problem would be solved.
R.I.P
Sorry, I should have made it more clear, I did survive heavy fire, many times and the only movement I did was creaping in from 10 KM, and then reversing back out to about 5KM, and then going back in. Again, I was a eng captain, so a tac might not be able to do this, but most of the tanking skills are BOFF based, not captain.
I don't argue that the beam energy drain is a problem, however, I question what you are saying about beam damage performing the same percent as cannon damage. Yes, beam damage is at a higher percent of total beam damage at longer range than cannon damage percent, but that is not comparing the same thing. It is comparing percent of total beam damage to percent of total cannon damage. Cannons outdamage beams out to 8 KM (Per this guy.) So the only area where beams are better than cannons is between 8 to 10 KM. Which is a pretty narrow band. If you want more equality, either cannon drop off needs to be increased, or beam drop off needs to be decreased, so that cannons rule inside 5 KM and beams rule outside of it. Actually if beam drop off didn't start until about 5KM, that would probably do it.
Nouveau riche LTS member
Even then though the difference is defined more by the Cannon BOff buffs availible to them.
R.I.P
No, no - you're spot on, sacrificing just a tiny bit dps and getting Emergency Power to Shields instead of to Weapons with an Eng captain works wonders, but your dps overall will be ~20% lower than a Tacs
(mostly due to not having his crazy damage bonus abilities, altho the system-power tricks an Engineer has help).
And now, come on - how many times has Miracle Worker saved your ship?
Most will admit to being saved by it a lot, regardless of the ship type they use, but few are as grateful as the Eng Escorts!
He's dead, Jim.
Just as an add-on to this: FPE with an Engineer as captain. That ship. Insanely hard for NPCs to destroy. FPEs are the most naturally tanky out of all the current escorts in game (just on paper, in actual combat might be a different story), so if you add on an engi captain, sufficed to say, it takes quite a while to destroy you, if you're ever destroyed at all.
Also it's BOff layout makes it perfect for a full cannon build. Sufficed to say, in my FPE, my engi captain can GET IT DONE. But the only catch here is that it's not as much fun to fly as my Odyssey XD.
Welcome to Escorts Online. We have cookies.
(PvE speaking of course)
RE: the new testing data, if I got the right link, that's comparing a duel heavy cannon with a duel beam bank. And that does look better, but I was talking about beam arrays. Assuming that the same drop off applies to beam arrays as to DBBs then DHCs are the best from 1 to 4 KM, DBB are best from 5 to 10 KM, and beam arrays are always last until 7 or 8 KM, when they overtake DHCs. I still think that just looking at the range, beam arrays should star their drop at 5 KM. That gives them slightly less range advantage over the DBBs, give a bit more room to fend off cannons, and remain close but below DBBs out to 10KM. Again, just my opinion, but in the question of range, I think it would help.
Nouveau riche LTS member
I liked Cruisers online from before... They had brownies.
Im curious though, what will science bring when they get to be on top?
R.I.P
DBBs lose out only because CRF boosts DHCs better than Bfaw does and beams have a bad drain mechanic under constant fire.
Hence why I say the defficiency of beams does not lie in range modifiers.
Lower beams range drop to 2% and they would be doing 92% at km. A 20% difference in favor of beams instead of 12%.
R.I.P
Decreasing the drain of beams
Creating a CRF BOff ability for beams
Lowering beams range modifier
Etc etc
I do not hink beamers will ever be happy until beam arrays do exactly the same damage as DHCs and that makes no sense to me in any balanced way.
R.I.P
Actually, I'd probably be quite happy with that myself. That's just me though obviously.
It would seem to me in the 23C there no ships with cannons exept the Klingons.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
They will be happy when they can get an unkillable brick that hardly has to move and can use long range devastating fire that does more damage than anything else. Which is not at all how STO is set up lol.
Honestly, the new dreadnought carrier is clearly meant to be a questionable attempt at just that, with its extra slow turning its pretty clear its meant as a big gun stand off artillery ship. Mount some DBBs in the front, turrets in the back and launch waves of fighters at your enemies. Of course, it trades damage potential for survivability, which is a trade most "beamers" (love that term btw) are extremely loath to do,
Its vital to always keep in mind that your heals are also on shorter CDs, so be more liberal with them. Don't wait to be in deep trouble to use them because their effect will be less, if you are only lightly damaged pop off your heals anyway.
Frankly, I wish they'd do away with the correlation of range-damage. Just simplify it so that if you're in range with a weapon, you're in range. If you're not, you're not. Maybe increase chance to miss the further away you are, and leave it at that
Oh, I already know this. I've baked the last few batches!
Yeah, but they spiked them with the wrong stuff and there were some bad reactions, and as such, it had to end.
Oh, I agree with this whole-heartedly. A lot of the pro-BA players want DHC level damage with BA level firing arcs and range diminishers. And a lot of con-BA players say "fk it, just fly a cannonscort".
A lot of the more sensible BA players say: reduce power drain, increase damage, or add a bloody HEAVY BA to counter the dual HEAVY cannons. And a lot of the more sensible con-BA players agree with this.
But as bareel was kind enough to point out, this won't be happening. It is after all, escorts online.
Do you have a source for your 5% number?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
And hasnt the last PvP Dev said that PvP is so small part of STO that removing it wont influence gameplay at all? So 5% sounds pretty optimistic.