wonderful job here mostly, simply because these ship have no chance of rewriting pvp balance around themselves. these state are extreamly conservative, im shocked the heavy escort just has a 12 turn, but with its versatile station setup, strong hull and shields, and the hanger it is completely appropriate.
the mirror kdf carrier kinda stole the show imo, the LT being eng and just the commander sci is a great carrier setup, second only to the recluse.
the dreadnought carrier, well i just sorta feel sorry for it. with its movement stats, that station setup is down right horrible. it could never utilize that many tac stations effectively, and it would tank like TRIBBLE with the rest of its stations.
the least you could do is give it the same station setup the escort has, that it could work with. besides the commander tactical, it needs no other tac stations, its to much of a liability to have around. seriously, no end game ship would be easier to blow up in pvp, be a bigger liability to have around, or be more ineffective with all the bulk. all that tactical, and none of that support capability in something that doesn't move like an escort is worthless. this is the biggest pve toy ever lol
for the sake of all the clueless that will pick this huge joke of a ship up, change the LT tac to a LT eng on the thing. that will go a long way toward keeping them alive in it, and it being semi usable in pvp
oh, and i also like the fighters. they arent a new fighter with some control ability, they are fighters that just deal damage, and with DEM they do it in a bit of a unique way
I can only assume this is not going to be how we see the size of this ship when playing? That would be about x3 the length of a Galaxy, with the same turn rate.
wonderful job here mostly, simply because these ship have no chance of rewriting pvp balance around themselves. these state are extreamly conservative, im shocked the heavy escort just has a 12 turn, but with its versatile station setup, strong hull and shields, and the hanger it is completely appropriate.
the mirror kdf carrier kinda stole the show imo, the LT being eng and just the commander sci is a great carrier setup, second only to the recluse.
the dreadnought carrier, well i just sorta feel sorry for it. with its movement stats, that station setup is down right horrible. it could never utilize that many tac stations effectively, and it would tank like TRIBBLE with the rest of its stations.
the least you could do is give it the same station setup the escort has, that it could work with. besides the commander tactical, it needs no other tac stations, its to much of a liability to have around. seriously, no end game ship would be easier to blow up in pvp, be a bigger liability to have around, or be more ineffective with all the bulk. all that tactical, and none of that support capability in something that doesn't move like an escort is worthless. this is the biggest pve toy ever lol
for the sake of all the clueless that will pick this huge joke of a ship up, change the LT tac to a LT eng on the thing. that will go a long way toward keeping them alive in it, and it being semi usable in pvp
oh, and i also like the fighters. they arent a new fighter with some control ability, they are fighters that just deal damage, and with DEM they do it in a bit of a unique way
Well I guess cryptic decided they don't want my money after all. I was seriously considering going after a heavy escort carrier but with that boff layout its off the table. To get me interested i would need either a lt cmdr tactical or atleast an ensign tac to go with the lt universal, in addition to the cmdr tac it already has. As it stands right now its no competition for my tacs jem hadar attack ship or even for my engineers breen ship, only thing i am a little interested in it for would be the console.
Carrier on the other hand does look good for a carrier, but I prefer ships that can turn around faster than an aircraft carrier so probably won't bother with that one either.
The Lobi Crystal Consortium has continued to salvage derelict Mirror Universe ships and sell them to the highest bidder. Three additional Mirror Universe ships are now available ? for the right price.
This would imply that the Mirror Universe ships are going to to be sold in the Lobi store, yet yesterday's blog states they'll be the Lock Box prize. So which is it?
Also, the Heavy Escort Carrier with its current stats is going to be a monster... No reason to fly the Armitage anymore IMO, even the Fleet variant.
Well I guess cryptic decided they don't want my money after all. I was seriously considering going after a heavy escort carrier but with that boff layout its off the table. To get me interested i would need either a lt cmdr tactical or atleast an ensign tac to go with the lt universal, in addition to the cmdr tac it already has. As it stands right now its no competition for my tacs jem hadar attack ship or even for my engineers breen ship, only thing i am a little interested in it for would be the console.
Carrier on the other hand does look good for a carrier, but I prefer ships that can turn around faster than an aircraft carrier so probably won't bother with that one either.
Actually United States Carriers are swifter than you believe.
IMO with the current BOFF layout Drednought Carrier's surviavability is too low, perhaps you should consider layout such as:
Com Tac,
LTC Eng,
LTC Sci,
LT Uni.
Reason is that LT Tac is a bit of overkill, but two extra science abilities sould come in handy.
Jem'Hadar Space Set - Dominion Circuitry: This item will allow you to obtain an upgraded version of the existing Jem'Hadar Space Set, by turning in a full set of Mk XI gear (obtained by running missions from the "2800" Featured Series). This equipment is Very Rare Mk XII.
This would imply that the Mirror Universe ships are going to to be sold in the Lobi store, yet yesterday's blog states they'll be the Lock Box prize. So which is it?
Mirror Ships are Lock Box Rewards. It's only the Dreadnought that is Lobi.
More survivability? No, just way more more turnrate. Otherwise the cmdr tac boff is a waste.
a better turn rate is unreasonable, its 3 times the size of the galaxy, and according to this page 7 times the volume. its lucky to have the same turn rate
The Kar'fi moves like it does because it is the smallest out of the full fledge carriers. This behemoth is the largest, so the turn makes sense.
This is why they need to remove a lot of hull and shields to be able to add a lot of turnrate so that this ship makes sense. Otherwise it's a giant piece of TRIBBLE, and people buying that will be quicly disappointed.
A Jem'Hadar warship design developed in the Gamma Quadrant after the end of the Dominion War
Please answer me the this question- Why the Ketracel is the Dominion giving ships to captains of other states?
OK, I can see Starfleet and the KDF using captured enemy ships (especially with the precarious situation the known galaxy is in), and if a Starfleet captain saves the galaxy in a privately owned vessel, I think the Admiralty would "look the other way." But a post-Dominion War ship - from the Dominion? Last time I checked, the Dominion wasn't at war with either the Federation or the Klingon Empire in 2409. True, there is the whole 2800 fleet, but the main reason they fight is because they didn't believe the Dominion War was over. From said Episode and the (other) Cardassian Front mission, it seems that the current attitude of the Founders these days is "don't bother us, we won't bother you." And, from said missions, it seems the UFP (and the Klingon Empire, by implication) is just fine with respecting that attitude. So there is no reason why Starfleet and KDF captains would be getting new Dominion ships.
It makes me think, "Are you trying to kill immersion, Cryptic? Do you want to become the Battlefield 3 of Star Trek?"
Now, if you want to make a Dominion ship that was never seen or mentioned in DS9, you can still say it was captured in the DW. It was a huge conflict, just because we never saw a certain ship in the war on TV doesn't mean it never did. Just ask the crew of a Sovereign-class.
This is why they need to remove a lot of hull and shields to be able to add a lot of turnrate so that this ship makes sense. Otherwise it's a giant piece of TRIBBLE, and people buying that will be quicly disappointed.
Actually, no they don't. Just a slight boff change would make it useful, but not OP.
Please answer me the this question- Why the Ketracel is the Dominion giving ships to captains of other states?
OK, I can see Starfleet and the KDF using captured enemy ships (especially with the precarious situation the known galaxy is in), and if a Starfleet captain saves the galaxy in a privately owned vessel, I think the Admiralty would "look the other way." But a post-Dominion War ship - from the Dominion? Last time I checked, the Dominion wasn't at war with either the Federation or the Klingon Empire in 2409. True, there is the whole 2800 fleet, but the main reason they fight is because they didn't believe the Dominion War was over. From said Episode and the (other) Cardassian Front mission, it seems that the current attitude of the Founders these days is "don't bother us, we won't bother you." And, from said missions, it seems the UFP (and the Klingon Empire, by implication) is just fine with respecting that attitude. So there is no reason why Starfleet and KDF captains would be getting new Dominion ships.
It makes me think, "Are you trying to kill immersion, Cryptic? Do you want to become the Battlefield 3 of Star Trek?"
Now, if you want to make a Dominion ship that was never seen or mentioned in DS9, you can still say it was captured in the DW. It was a huge conflict, just because we never saw a certain ship in the war on TV doesn't mean it never did. Just ask the crew of a Sovereign-class.
People seem to be forgetting about the True Way...they are a mix of Dominion and Cardassian vessels and they do use the Heavy Escort...so they would still be a enemy.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Actually, no they don't. Just a slight boff change would make it useful, but not OP.
Any ship with less than 10 turnrate can't use cannons properly, even in pve. And any ship with a Cmdr tac geared with beam is a massive fail. I don't see your logic behind this argument, except that you don't want decent carriers bothering you in pvp. :P
Any ship with less than 10 turnrate can't use cannons properly, even in pve. And any ship with a Cmdr tac geared with beam is a massive fail. I don't see your logic behind this argument, except that you don't want decent carriers bothering you in pvp. :P
Tell that to the Kar'fi.
7 turnrate and yet people use Dual Cannons successfully.
And also, there are single cannons you can mount on it and make it successful
And carrier's don't bother me: just a big target to blow up.
7 turnrate and yet people use Dual Cannons successfully.
And also, there are single cannons you can mount on it and make it successful
And carrier's don't bother me: just a big target to blow up.
Well and the karfi is ok with cannons or dual cannons because you can use good hold abilities. Not great though, just "ok", because 7 is damn low. In this case you can't, you *need* to be able to chase targets. Including frigates, even if they aren't the most dangerous enemies if you can't you're useless. Single cannons won't do any good either, it's still lame and poorly enhanced by CSV or CRF.
So you have a ship with:
- a low dps. Ok, let's deal with spam/small targets
- but you can't! You don't even have the turnrate to chase frigates.
This ship is a massive fail and some minor boff tweaking won't change this.
Well and the karfi is ok with cannons or dual cannons because you can use good hold abilities. Not great though, just "ok", because 7 is damn low. In this case you can't, you *need* to be able to chase targets. Including frigates, even if they aren't the most dangerous enemies if you can't you're useless. Single cannons won't do any good either, it's still lame and poorly enhanced by CSV or CRF.
Tell that to the Excelsior: it's most successful with Aux to Battery and Cannon Rapid Fire. And it has a turn rate at 8
unique bridge: what a cop out. i could understand the jem'hadar heavy escort carrier sharing the same bridge as the jem'hadar attack ship, but the jem'hadar dreadnaught shares it too? i would think that would give your bridge designers some room to come up with some cool and unique jem'hadar bridge designs. i guess not.
If my memory serves me correctly, the Jem'Hadar bridges are utilized so only the Vorta in charge can have acces to 'visual' console to see where the ship is going and only that one Vorta has access to a whole set of the ship's systems, while the Jem'Hadar merely manning regular stations. One can argue that the Jem'Hadar have no necessity of multiple bridge designs other than the one that works, because of this specific chain of command.
I've used it, kill 4 out of 5 KDF player with single cannons, cannon rapid fire, and DEM3, with APO1.
Then the 5th person BOP Alphaed me when every defense was on cooldown.
The player's name was Thissler.
I could tell you that anyone with a decent build and game playing abilities could beat that ship but this discussion has already turned out to be a pointless argument. I like carriers and i want them to be good in pve and pvp, you don't, everyone got it.
I could tell you that anyone with a decent build and game playing abilities could beat that ship but this discussion has already turned out to be a pointless argument. I like carriers and i want them to be good in pve and pvp, you don't, everyone got it.
Maybe it is pointless, but it isn't for the reason you say it is:
Yes, I would like to see this ship retooled so it can succeed in PVP, so do you. The difference is the way we think is best to go about this change.
You want to suggest that Cryptic shave off shields and hull and give it a better turnrate. I want to suggest for Cryptic to retool the boff layout.
I don't like your suggestion because it wouldn't make sense: it's a massive effing ship, a Dreadnought larger than the Galaxy. A high turnrate wouldn't make sense for such a behemoth.
You don't like my suggestion because you believe it wouldn't do enough to make it viable for PVP.
So in the end, all we can agree on is that it needs to be changed and agree to disagree on how to go about it.
And for your first sentence: anyone can beat any ship if they have a decent build and gameplaying abilities.
Great debate by the way good sir. Nice to see such a civilized discussion didn't descend into name calling and trolling.
Comments
the mirror kdf carrier kinda stole the show imo, the LT being eng and just the commander sci is a great carrier setup, second only to the recluse.
the dreadnought carrier, well i just sorta feel sorry for it. with its movement stats, that station setup is down right horrible. it could never utilize that many tac stations effectively, and it would tank like TRIBBLE with the rest of its stations.
the least you could do is give it the same station setup the escort has, that it could work with. besides the commander tactical, it needs no other tac stations, its to much of a liability to have around. seriously, no end game ship would be easier to blow up in pvp, be a bigger liability to have around, or be more ineffective with all the bulk. all that tactical, and none of that support capability in something that doesn't move like an escort is worthless. this is the biggest pve toy ever lol
for the sake of all the clueless that will pick this huge joke of a ship up, change the LT tac to a LT eng on the thing. that will go a long way toward keeping them alive in it, and it being semi usable in pvp
oh, and i also like the fighters. they arent a new fighter with some control ability, they are fighters that just deal damage, and with DEM they do it in a bit of a unique way
I can only assume this is not going to be how we see the size of this ship when playing? That would be about x3 the length of a Galaxy, with the same turn rate.
Carrier on the other hand does look good for a carrier, but I prefer ships that can turn around faster than an aircraft carrier so probably won't bother with that one either.
Also, the Heavy Escort Carrier with its current stats is going to be a monster... No reason to fly the Armitage anymore IMO, even the Fleet variant.
Actually United States Carriers are swifter than you believe.
More survivability? No, just way more more turnrate. Otherwise the cmdr tac boff is a waste.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Com Tac,
LTC Eng,
LTC Sci,
LT Uni.
Reason is that LT Tac is a bit of overkill, but two extra science abilities sould come in handy.
/Rubbing hands together
a better turn rate is unreasonable, its 3 times the size of the galaxy, and according to this page 7 times the volume. its lucky to have the same turn rate
http://st-v-sw.net/STSWvolumetrics.html
The Kar'fi moves like it does because it is the smallest out of the full fledge carriers. This behemoth is the largest, so the turn makes sense.
This is why they need to remove a lot of hull and shields to be able to add a lot of turnrate so that this ship makes sense. Otherwise it's a giant piece of TRIBBLE, and people buying that will be quicly disappointed.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Why the Ketracel is the Dominion giving ships to captains of other states?
OK, I can see Starfleet and the KDF using captured enemy ships (especially with the precarious situation the known galaxy is in), and if a Starfleet captain saves the galaxy in a privately owned vessel, I think the Admiralty would "look the other way." But a post-Dominion War ship - from the Dominion? Last time I checked, the Dominion wasn't at war with either the Federation or the Klingon Empire in 2409. True, there is the whole 2800 fleet, but the main reason they fight is because they didn't believe the Dominion War was over. From said Episode and the (other) Cardassian Front mission, it seems that the current attitude of the Founders these days is "don't bother us, we won't bother you." And, from said missions, it seems the UFP (and the Klingon Empire, by implication) is just fine with respecting that attitude. So there is no reason why Starfleet and KDF captains would be getting new Dominion ships.
It makes me think, "Are you trying to kill immersion, Cryptic? Do you want to become the Battlefield 3 of Star Trek?"
Now, if you want to make a Dominion ship that was never seen or mentioned in DS9, you can still say it was captured in the DW. It was a huge conflict, just because we never saw a certain ship in the war on TV doesn't mean it never did. Just ask the crew of a Sovereign-class.
Actually, no they don't. Just a slight boff change would make it useful, but not OP.
People seem to be forgetting about the True Way...they are a mix of Dominion and Cardassian vessels and they do use the Heavy Escort...so they would still be a enemy.
Any ship with less than 10 turnrate can't use cannons properly, even in pve. And any ship with a Cmdr tac geared with beam is a massive fail. I don't see your logic behind this argument, except that you don't want decent carriers bothering you in pvp. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Tell that to the Kar'fi.
7 turnrate and yet people use Dual Cannons successfully.
And also, there are single cannons you can mount on it and make it successful
And carrier's don't bother me: just a big target to blow up.
Well and the karfi is ok with cannons or dual cannons because you can use good hold abilities. Not great though, just "ok", because 7 is damn low. In this case you can't, you *need* to be able to chase targets. Including frigates, even if they aren't the most dangerous enemies if you can't you're useless. Single cannons won't do any good either, it's still lame and poorly enhanced by CSV or CRF.
So you have a ship with:
- a low dps. Ok, let's deal with spam/small targets
- but you can't! You don't even have the turnrate to chase frigates.
This ship is a massive fail and some minor boff tweaking won't change this.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Tell that to the Excelsior: it's most successful with Aux to Battery and Cannon Rapid Fire. And it has a turn rate at 8
Please don't, send it to me instead, I have a sci. Fedcat that could give it much love
If my memory serves me correctly, the Jem'Hadar bridges are utilized so only the Vorta in charge can have acces to 'visual' console to see where the ship is going and only that one Vorta has access to a whole set of the ship's systems, while the Jem'Hadar merely manning regular stations. One can argue that the Jem'Hadar have no necessity of multiple bridge designs other than the one that works, because of this specific chain of command.
^I second this!^ :cool:
Used to be, 2 years ago, when the standard ship was the RA one.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Still successful with the Fleet Excelsior.
I've used it, kill 4 out of 5 KDF player with single cannons, cannon rapid fire, and DEM3, with APO1.
Then the 5th person BOP Alphaed me when every defense was on cooldown.
The player's name was Thissler.
I could tell you that anyone with a decent build and game playing abilities could beat that ship but this discussion has already turned out to be a pointless argument. I like carriers and i want them to be good in pve and pvp, you don't, everyone got it.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Maybe it is pointless, but it isn't for the reason you say it is:
Yes, I would like to see this ship retooled so it can succeed in PVP, so do you. The difference is the way we think is best to go about this change.
You want to suggest that Cryptic shave off shields and hull and give it a better turnrate. I want to suggest for Cryptic to retool the boff layout.
I don't like your suggestion because it wouldn't make sense: it's a massive effing ship, a Dreadnought larger than the Galaxy. A high turnrate wouldn't make sense for such a behemoth.
You don't like my suggestion because you believe it wouldn't do enough to make it viable for PVP.
So in the end, all we can agree on is that it needs to be changed and agree to disagree on how to go about it.
And for your first sentence: anyone can beat any ship if they have a decent build and gameplaying abilities.
Great debate by the way good sir. Nice to see such a civilized discussion didn't descend into name calling and trolling.