I have nothing against cloak or battlecloak for Feds. I don't have anything against Feds not having it (we have better ships after all).
It is just funny when one side is complaining about cloak, the other say that cloak is ok... but only when only they have it because if the enemy have it, the game sucks. I wonder what Klinks would say if they run into a match with Defiants and Galaxys-X only
And Klinks have some non-cloaking ships in their arsenal right? Gorn ships and that fugly Warhammer 40000 carrier. Or do they have cloak too?
This is the second post in a row where you claim that I (or klinks in general) have a problem with the other side having a cloak. Nowhere has that been said. In fact, I just stated that I was glad that Feds have cloaks, it improved the game.
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I think I remember your testing and you tested 1 ship vs. 1 aceton assimilator.
The last time I hoped into Ker'rat (last week) there were at least a half dozen or more Aceton Assimilators in a 10km or 15km radius.
It's the same with most special consoles, high powered DOFFs, high powered items, etc.
1 of them is usually a gimmicky non-issue.
Multiply that by 5 players spamming (whatever it is) and suddenly it becomes a frustrating and stifling thing to face.
This actually relates to the whole "BoPs are overpowered" (which isn't true, in my estimation at all by the way) conversation.
The truth is more complicated than 'yes they are' or 'no they aren't.
The truth is more likely that in a 5 v 5 situation, a small controlled arena environment, the BoP ends up being rather fragile and cloak can be dealt with and marginalized.
In open world pvp zones like Ker'rat, where participation from either side is not necessarily set, and the situation is constantly shifting - suddenly having 3 to 6 players in BoPs all using hit and run tactics without the limitations arena play brings - suddenly they feel overpowered to the opponent - because without a coherent team or the appearance of a single superstar player on your side, quite frankly they will have the complete advantage.
I had tested one Assimilator with a ship that had no points in Power Insulators (save the ones from the MACO 2-piece set) and one with 6 points in Power Insulators. You can drop two Assimilators at a time, which I did test. Dropping two does not increase the drain in either players' Power Insulators level.
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of people in our KDF fleet that has Aceton Assimilators. So, it would be difficult for us to test if the drains from two people stack, or if the target can only be drained once.
AMS works against Aceton Assimilators as well. I've seen my Assimilators getting hit by friendly ships and watched them damage themselves.
PvP is dead in this game altogether. There is no balance and the organized PvP community constantly whines about powers that "shouldn't be in PvP" because they are either "over-powered" or can allow a "casual player" the ability to actually win at PvP. They refuse to adapt and change to the constant state of evolution in this game. They have their "cookie cutter" builds and refuse to change them to adapt because some "casual PvP'r" or "PvE'r" can now outwit them in their own game and they don't like it. What they don't get sometimes is what is perfectly explained here in this video, http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill. This video is, in-part, why I feel the PvP community is going to kill this game...
My suggestion to you is this: Just stay away from the public queues and organized PvP community. It will ruin your enjoyment of all this game has to offer. Rather stick with friends and fleets that offer a balance to your enjoyment of the game and PvP.
What this game needs in its current state of PvP is a "free for all" where there are no teams. You can either choose to assist someone or destroy them, any of them.
PvP is dead in this game altogether. There is no balance and the organized PvP community constantly whines about powers that "shouldn't be in PvP" because they are either "over-powered" or can allow a "casual player" the ability to actually win at PvP. They refuse to adapt and change to the constant state of evolution in this game. They have their "cookie cutter" builds and refuse to change them to adapt because some "casual PvP'r" or "PvE'r" can now outwit them in their own game and they don't like it. What they don't get sometimes is what is perfectly explained here in this video, http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill. This video is, in-part, why I feel the PvP community is going to kill this game...
My suggestion to you is this: Just stay away from the public queues and organized PvP community. It will ruin your enjoyment of all this game has to offer. Rather stick with friends and fleets that offer a balance to your enjoyment of the game and PvP.
What this game needs in its current state of PvP is a "free for all" where there are no teams. You can either choose to assist someone or destroy them, any of them.
You, sir, are entitled to your opinion. But folks, remember that it is, in fact, just his opinion and not stated fact.
In my opinion, the organized pvp community is a great place to learn about pvp, make friends, and be involved in pvp- of any sort. Most of the stuff I see people complaining about are the sort of complaints you see in any game, or are the result of actual numerical testing and balance passes.
The issue is not, as blznfun has stated, that 'noobs can kill mehs', but rather that all too often items have been introduced that are overpowered compared to other items of their type
When you have a choice between a gun that does 5 damage, and a gun that does 5 million damage, with everything else being equal, the latter is better. However it is the opinion of the community as far as I know, and of myself, that additions to the game should not remove choices as valid, but instead add them. If there is a newly added option that is blatantly superior to all other options of its type, then hell yes I'm going to ask for it to be balanced against other items of its type.
You shouldn't be *required* to run item X in order to maintain competitive with other users running item X, especially when items Y Z D H F H Ys are available.
By and large, my experience with the organized pvp community has been very good and supportive, and my impression of these people is that they are very professional in their behavior and generally very well informed about the state of the game.
I'm sorry if blznfun has had a less than stellar experience with the community, assuming that he's actually had *any* experience with the community and isn't just he said she said talking out his aft.
Ok you just live in your worlds, as small as they may be... My opinions are just that, as well as your being "just that".
OP, watch the video and you will see what I am talking about and how the two previous posters just confirmed what I was talking about. Its not about the skill they have in this game, its about the powers they are given. Take a sub nuke away from a sci with no comparative power to replace it and PvP would be gone forever. The over-healers would never die nor would their teammates. Which is why I make my point about supposedly "Over-powered" items being added to this game and how it takes "their" edge away.
The organized PvP community is ruining this game... God forbid Cryptic tells them to learn to adapt, change their tactics (which is all that is required), shut up and just play the game the way it is and we aren't listening to you any more. But no, everything is changed based on their opinions and observations as they see it through PvP only.
Why is it Cryptic listens the very small minority of this game which in turn affects the VAST majority of this game? Can anyone answer that?
P.S. Op, you will also find that most organized PvP'rs have super inflated egos. They can't live without those egos being super inflated and that no one is better than them, as you can see from posts above me and all over the PvP forum... Just keep this in mind the next time you get into a discussion with someone...
ok guys tonight i tried a different tac on a B rel in PvP i was in a Nova i used discharge particle III, did it work Hmm limited yes, did i kill the same guy hmm no, why? well he was immune to tractor and he got away in the blink of an eye. Polarise hull? attack pattern Omega? who knows i know once again i never saw him die, i think over 2 days seen this guy and another in Be rel 5-6 times not seen any deaths registered, now people have said on this thread there easy to kill! well maybe they are if you get hold of them.
Now since they are firing cloaked there hull buffs are probably only being used once they have been declaoked i.e. hull and shield, since they are a torp & mine boat where will there power be? obvoiusly in thier speed and shields, they don't need power in weapons cause it dont make any difference to torps. So its harder to hit because they are a small target and they move fast and if they unfortunate to be decloaked and tractored polarise hull or omega evasive manouvres and there gone. Basically you set that ship up right and its unlikely to be destroyed as i have witnessed, is that skill? i can have a pretty good guess how that ship is set up, never flown it. As for the old TRIBBLE about its the skill not the ship and weapons the klinks use, how is it i spent a good minute dealing with a TRIBBLE load off acetone asimm laid and there is no real person to be seen! so klinks deplo a TRIBBLE load of devices and send thier pet after you to occupy with no risk to them selves thats skill,.
I used to play starfleet command and people somtimes complained that pvp in that was un balance especailly the mods, the problem was more about the ships themselves, however all the weapons were all available to all sides no one had the advantage, and klinks could be detected cloaked using certain tactics and destroyed if they didnt decloak, the skill sets were the same this made for far better balanced fights between fed v klinks than is currently the case in this game.
As for the comment made regarding being beat by a better skilled klink and that the reason to go back to fed v fed, i saw no skill in what he was dong press fire torp deploy assimulators and mines and just spam this make sure i cant be caught and basically its i can see you i can hit you but you cant see me and if you do i will run and come back when buffs have worn off! Its like another klink in a BOP i see often Lymru what does this guy do, he declaoks uses his alpha strike with beam overload III and if he hasnt taken you out he runs like the wind activating his Battle claok, never ever seen this guy hang around for more than 5 secs. Did he get tractored sure he did, like some one said here already just a 1 trick pony, o yes he has been chased but since he moves faster than light and he has his battle cloak which more than aid is get away. defaint pulled this trick, got caught by pursuing klinks could cloak because klinks caought up to him before cooldown had elapsed poor fed if only he has a battle cloak like Siskos ship! yep i see plenty of skill next klinks will be telling the pilots in the bug ship are really the best out there, and its just coincidence that they happen to be in the bug ship! but its not down to the bug ship being so good its solely down to them!
P.S. Op, you will also find that most organized PvP'rs have super inflated egos. They can't live without those egos being super inflated and that no one is better than them, as you can see from posts above me and all over the PvP forum... Just keep this in mind the next time you get into a discussion with someone...
Actually I find that those who refuse to learn and who think they know everything, such as fail PvEers, tend to have huge egos.
Unjustifiably so, of course.
They think that because of their narrow experience in beating helpless PvE mobs, that they know the game on the level of those who actually have to beat another brain in game.
It's only natural that those who have to rise to the challenge of beating another brain are going to put the most effort in understanding the mechanics of the game, and thusly will be better equipped to handle the game.
And you won't find another more open community in the game than the OPvP community. No other community in the game puts as much effort as this one in teaching others how to play the game.
You only have to want to learn and not be ashamed to ask.
Actually I find that those who refuse to learn and who think they know everything, such as fail PvEers, tend to have huge egos.
Unjustifiably so, of course.
They think that because of their narrow experience in beating helpless PvE mobs, that they know the game on the level of those who actually have to beat another brain in game.
It's only natural that those who have to rise to the challenge of beating another brain are going to put the most effort in understanding the mechanics of the game, and thusly will be better equipped to handle the game.
And you won't find another more open community in the game than the OPvP community. No other community in the game puts as much effort as this one in teaching others how to play the game.
You only have to want to learn and not be ashamed to ask.
This is so fail. Any I think I stated to you in another post I am not just a "PvE'r" as you would like to believe. Whether you believe me or not, I don't care, but I DO know my way around PvP which is why I choose to argue for it and against those that refuse to adapt and change since the game DOES evolve, but you just want to keep doing things which you know work (aka, cookie cutter builds). However since the game is evolving and its requiring the PvP community to change, and they don't want to, they whine to get things their way so they don't have to change. Its an age old argument in any game. STO is not any different and neither are you.
But since I have no ego, like others here, I don't have to boast how good I am or that "I am better than you" because my brain actually works and tells me, "There is always someone better". Nobody likes to loose, even me, but the PvP community is the worst at it.
"Hey, lets go out in the school yard and beat each other till we bleed. I bet I will win!" lol fail fail fail...
You do fail in all of your critiques in this subforum.
Never have you demonstrated any competence in any of the subjects you've tried to argue in.
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't dyslexic? There is professional help for that you know. All you have to do is ask...
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't dyslexic? There is professional help for that you know. All you have to do is ask...
No offense, but none of your posts require anything other than casual responses at best.
Nothing you've ever posted in the PvP subforums requires more than a laugh.
Your analysis on Tric mines was particularly hilarious too.
Irelevant to the thread as Klingons have always enjoyed killing feds more, never really had the numbers for KvK and we have never threatened to run hide when the battle gets tough in the FvK ques.
What was your point? Thats we are a small subset of the playerbase and would rather kill feds?
The OPs post is a " lets take our ball and go inside and play by ourselves" post just like we've all seen in the past.
And ots still sad.
Y'know...I was going to type out a long, thought-out post, but considering that this thing is probably going to get closed, I won't bother. I'll just stick to this:
The reason FvK seems dead sometimes (slow to actually pop a queue), isn't because KDF cheese is overpowered (both sides are perfectly guilty of that), it's that the Feds get whiny about losing, sometimes just in game, sometimes here on the forums, and go to FvF, leaving the KDF players to wait on FvK queues to pop, or do warzones, or not PvP at all.
I'm not saying it's RIGHT for KDF players to purely cheese it up, but then again, it isn't RIGHT for Fed players to cheese it up either. I don't think I really ever see KDF players moaning about Feds cheesing it up big time in the queues.
So basically: Everyone's guilty of it. Learn to deal with the cheese if you are gonna queue for pugging of any kind. I see cheese anywhere and everywhere, even in FvF queues, yet folks don't say much about that.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
/channel_join OrganizedPvP and make a pugmade or ask for a spot in a pugmade.
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't dyslexic? There is professional help for that you know. All you have to do is ask...
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't an idiot? There's professional help for that you know, all you have to do is ask...
The OP in his first and other post sounds like a player who was beat by a skilled player who built his B'rel correctly for the job it was designed for in combat and after reading the second post where he refought the same player and still complained about the unfairness of a bird of Prey doing hit n' run attacks, I now think his yowling about it displays ineptitude that borders on the imbecillic.
And I mean that in a caring way.
Should we KDF players complain about the Defiants ability to decloak strike and loiter in combat, a combat role its very well designed for? I think not.
Its time to stop complaining OP over someone playing to the strengths of thier vessel and class and as others have said buck-up and learn to play to your strengths instead
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
I dont play my fed other than to mine him for resources
I stopped queing for fvk arena pugs becuase if I don't remember or know* the PvPers involved I know its as sure s death and taxes that the losing side will blame cheese even when its not been used in the match.
Who the hell wants to play in any match where win or lose its always "the cheese" even if nobody ever pops a AA, DpB buffed Trics, siphon pods or anything cheesy to win and its just a matter of better skill and builds beat skill and builds?
Hell some players pvping now have such a skewed concept of knowledge but abundance of ego that now cloaking is cheese, Hit N run attacks are cheese, communication is cheese, etc etc, basically now even accepted and common tactics is cheese if you beat someone.
Thats the real cheese of STO PvP.
We are quick to complain at each other instead of pushing the Devs more to fix things it seems at times.
If siphon Drones are still not balanced - keep pushing.
AA not balanced - keep pushing
TB shuttles not balanced - keep pushing
etc etc.
I'll stick to Ker'rat** and the rare CnHs, where its more anything goes and I can PvP or try to win the missions, or both on my schedule but frankly I haven't played becuase one) as a KDF fan there is shytte-all to do really but PvP for fun and run foundry***and two) the egoes of those involved has spoiled the fun of it in arena.
*Those whom know me know I know you or at least remember you and know that your egoes dont lend to being easily hurt or gloatful.
** because I can leave if it gets cheesy without causing others to lose as well.
I was just reminded was I stopped liking FvK and STO in general. Ended in a match with cheese spaming mix of carriers and battlecruisers that killed my GPU while having usual Fed PUGers on my side. And now even FvF is not free from spamers.
Time return to Windows card games. If I want to fight against carrier I launch Harpoon and play Russians.
as Klingons have always enjoyed killing feds more, never really had the numbers for KvK and we have never threatened to run hide when the battle gets tough in the FvK ques.
So you actually speak for all Klingon players everywhere now Roach? :P
Again, you like to bring up this "run and hide" statement, but it's pretty clear the Klingons want nothing to do with fighting other Klingons for the most part.
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
So you actually speak for all Klingon players everywhere now Roach?
Again, you like to bring up this "run and hide" statement, but it's pretty clear the Klingons want nothing to do with fighting other Klingons for the most part.
The standard answer to your question has always been we would rather kill the feds than each other everytime a fed asks it trying to show evidence that we KDF do not want to fight each other as if we are scared of fighting ourselves due to cheese.
Its still a silly attempt at trying prove a mindset that doesn't exist among the KDF fanbase.
Every Klink I know often clicks to join KvK que and the Fvk arena and Fvk CnH, but when push comes to shove why would I want to fight someone we may know very well, have fought beside often enough to know the tactics they use and even puged arena's with when we can fight feds and get more satisfaction. Its not like our playerbase is as large as the feds to make it interesting for long.
I personally enjoy fighting those I see as the enemy than those I have called friends and fight alongside more ofted in my own faction.
hey, though you keep thinking it does prove something even though it means squat. All it shows me is the feds like to defend thier run hide attitude when they cant fight.
But since you think it does mean something, how do you explain the growing disatisfaction with FvF PvP? Where will you all run hide when you get tired of playing with yourselves?
I think the resulting discussion from my question shows pretty clearly that it isn't at all irrelevant to the thread.
what discussion? One yes, one No response? Thats hardly the whole of the KDF playerbase, though according to Cryptic it may not be far offbase.
As to speaking for the whole KDF, I do not, but as the response is always the same - we enjoy killing feds more - it felt safe to say so.
The OP though is just ******** more than anything else, and the " run and hide in FvF" is the second oldest response in the game when this happens, the oldest being " PvP is unfair". Folowed soon by the classic "KDF cloaking is unfair" threads, BoPs are OP threads and all manner of responses that puts the blaim anywhere but on the one crying about it becvuase they lost to a possibly better player.
Thats exactly what the OP describes. He lost to a player that played better than himself.
ok guys tonight i tried a different tac on a B rel in PvP i was in a Nova i used discharge particle III, did it work Hmm limited yes, did i kill the same guy hmm no, why? well he was immune to tractor and he got away in the blink of an eye. Polarise hull? attack pattern Omega? who knows i know once again i never saw him die, i think over 2 days seen this guy and another in Be rel 5-6 times not seen any deaths registered, now people have said on this thread there easy to kill! well maybe they are if you get hold of them.
Now since they are firing cloaked there hull buffs are probably only being used once they have been declaoked i.e. hull and shield, since they are a torp & mine boat where will there power be? obvoiusly in thier speed and shields, they don't need power in weapons cause it dont make any difference to torps. So its harder to hit because they are a small target and they move fast and if they unfortunate to be decloaked and tractored polarise hull or omega evasive manouvres and there gone. Basically you set that ship up right and its unlikely to be destroyed as i have witnessed, is that skill? i can have a pretty good guess how that ship is set up, never flown it. As for the old TRIBBLE about its the skill not the ship and weapons the klinks use, how is it i spent a good minute dealing with a TRIBBLE load off acetone asimm laid and there is no real person to be seen! so klinks deplo a TRIBBLE load of devices and send thier pet after you to occupy with no risk to them selves thats skill,.
I used to play starfleet command and people somtimes complained that pvp in that was un balance especailly the mods, the problem was more about the ships themselves, however all the weapons were all available to all sides no one had the advantage, and klinks could be detected cloaked using certain tactics and destroyed if they didnt decloak, the skill sets were the same this made for far better balanced fights between fed v klinks than is currently the case in this game.
As for the comment made regarding being beat by a better skilled klink and that the reason to go back to fed v fed, i saw no skill in what he was dong press fire torp deploy assimulators and mines and just spam this make sure i cant be caught and basically its i can see you i can hit you but you cant see me and if you do i will run and come back when buffs have worn off! Its like another klink in a BOP i see often Lymru what does this guy do, he declaoks uses his alpha strike with beam overload III and if he hasnt taken you out he runs like the wind activating his Battle claok, never ever seen this guy hang around for more than 5 secs. Did he get tractored sure he did, like some one said here already just a 1 trick pony, o yes he has been chased but since he moves faster than light and he has his battle cloak which more than aid is get away. defaint pulled this trick, got caught by pursuing klinks could cloak because klinks caought up to him before cooldown had elapsed poor fed if only he has a battle cloak like Siskos ship! yep i see plenty of skill next klinks will be telling the pilots in the bug ship are really the best out there, and its just coincidence that they happen to be in the bug ship! but its not down to the bug ship being so good its solely down to them!
About Lymuv and his tactics:
In a majority of cases, especially with Bird of Prey's kitted out for Alpha Striking, it is what you are supposed to so: wait, activate Tac buffs, decloak, attack and either a) Destroy your opponent and leave, recloaking when it is off cooldown or b) Buff up, pray you don't die and GTFO quickly.
Why? Because a BOP is truly the most fragile ship in the game besides the Failquarius. They sacrificed hull, shields, and a weapon slot to gain universal stations and a battle cloak. The battle cloak is not an OP device, it is the BOP's lifeline, otherwise the poor ship will be destroyed by anything bigger than it, which is the Failquarius' main problem: BOP stats, but no way to escape when truly needed.
You should try the BOP, then come back when you realize how truly vulnerable you are when you are in it
how do you explain the growing disatisfaction with FvF PvP?
Increase in availability of KDF cheese.
Increase in hybrid cheese.
Increase in Fed cheese.
Increase in broken cheese.
Overall increases in cheese.
Increased dissatisfaction with FvF PvP is a sign of increased dissatisfaction with PvP in general, no?
Along the lines of why some would suggest that KvK is worse...the increase in hybrid chease, the increase in Fed cheese, the increase in broken cheese, and the additional availability of KDF cheese not yet available to Feds make the KvK PvP worse than the FvF PvP...there's more cheese.
Consider the Dominion lockbox - if it adds Plasmonic Leech or Aceton Assimilators for the Feds...will there not be an increased dissatisfaction with FvF?
As for things like the Feds that complain about cloaking, I've always suggested that it's easy enough for them to get a KDF toon with a BoP - they should do that and try flying it without cloaking. Then they can come back and say whether they feel the same way about it or not...
As for premades, well - when somebody queues up for some casual PvP fun by joining the queues and they get slaughtered by a premade - it's not cheese, but it sure as Hell isn't any fun. Given the existence of the OPvP channel, the forums, etc, etc, etc - there are plenty of opportunities for premades to be able to find premades to fight each other if they're interested in challenging matches. If they're just looking to soften their skills while inflating their egos...well, they can keep pugstomping I suppose.
No doubt there are going to be folks out there that their fragile egos simply cannot accept that they lost for any other reason that cheese or some technical glitch, etc, etc, etc. I have an ego like that, kind of... my fragile ego simply cannot accept that I won for any other reason than I must unknowingly be using something that's cheese, broken, or that the person that lost experienced some technical glitch.
I go into a fight expecting to lose. I set expectations for myself pretty low - which usually means that when I lose, there's not this huge letdown - there's not that sense of disappointment or frustration, etc, etc, etc. Thing is, there is cheese and there is broken stuff - so there's still frustration involved - there's still a desire not to queue again. Yep, even with having gone into a match with the twisted mentality of expecting to lose...one can still have that effit feeling in regard to STO PvP because of cheese.
It's casual PvP. It's like peewee soccer. It's meaningless fun. You can still have fun in losing. Nobody's fighting for territory - it's not a case that you lose and the other sides taking over your planet, either selling your women into prostitution or paving over your ancestral farm to build a Wal-Mart. It's just casual PvP... good ol' pewpew fun. All the nonsense cheese and broken TRIBBLE can ruin that...
...so yeah, I can easily see a reason for the increased dissatisfaction with FvF PvP.
...and yeah, I can see where the crossfaction console in the Dominion lockbox is only going to make that worse.
Comments
This is the second post in a row where you claim that I (or klinks in general) have a problem with the other side having a cloak. Nowhere has that been said. In fact, I just stated that I was glad that Feds have cloaks, it improved the game.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of people in our KDF fleet that has Aceton Assimilators. So, it would be difficult for us to test if the drains from two people stack, or if the target can only be drained once.
AMS works against Aceton Assimilators as well. I've seen my Assimilators getting hit by friendly ships and watched them damage themselves.
PvP is dead in this game altogether. There is no balance and the organized PvP community constantly whines about powers that "shouldn't be in PvP" because they are either "over-powered" or can allow a "casual player" the ability to actually win at PvP. They refuse to adapt and change to the constant state of evolution in this game. They have their "cookie cutter" builds and refuse to change them to adapt because some "casual PvP'r" or "PvE'r" can now outwit them in their own game and they don't like it. What they don't get sometimes is what is perfectly explained here in this video, http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/balancing-for-skill. This video is, in-part, why I feel the PvP community is going to kill this game...
My suggestion to you is this: Just stay away from the public queues and organized PvP community. It will ruin your enjoyment of all this game has to offer. Rather stick with friends and fleets that offer a balance to your enjoyment of the game and PvP.
What this game needs in its current state of PvP is a "free for all" where there are no teams. You can either choose to assist someone or destroy them, any of them.
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You, sir, are entitled to your opinion. But folks, remember that it is, in fact, just his opinion and not stated fact.
In my opinion, the organized pvp community is a great place to learn about pvp, make friends, and be involved in pvp- of any sort. Most of the stuff I see people complaining about are the sort of complaints you see in any game, or are the result of actual numerical testing and balance passes.
The issue is not, as blznfun has stated, that 'noobs can kill mehs', but rather that all too often items have been introduced that are overpowered compared to other items of their type
When you have a choice between a gun that does 5 damage, and a gun that does 5 million damage, with everything else being equal, the latter is better. However it is the opinion of the community as far as I know, and of myself, that additions to the game should not remove choices as valid, but instead add them. If there is a newly added option that is blatantly superior to all other options of its type, then hell yes I'm going to ask for it to be balanced against other items of its type.
You shouldn't be *required* to run item X in order to maintain competitive with other users running item X, especially when items Y Z D H F H Ys are available.
By and large, my experience with the organized pvp community has been very good and supportive, and my impression of these people is that they are very professional in their behavior and generally very well informed about the state of the game.
I'm sorry if blznfun has had a less than stellar experience with the community, assuming that he's actually had *any* experience with the community and isn't just he said she said talking out his aft.
OP, watch the video and you will see what I am talking about and how the two previous posters just confirmed what I was talking about. Its not about the skill they have in this game, its about the powers they are given. Take a sub nuke away from a sci with no comparative power to replace it and PvP would be gone forever. The over-healers would never die nor would their teammates. Which is why I make my point about supposedly "Over-powered" items being added to this game and how it takes "their" edge away.
The organized PvP community is ruining this game... God forbid Cryptic tells them to learn to adapt, change their tactics (which is all that is required), shut up and just play the game the way it is and we aren't listening to you any more. But no, everything is changed based on their opinions and observations as they see it through PvP only.
Why is it Cryptic listens the very small minority of this game which in turn affects the VAST majority of this game? Can anyone answer that?
P.S. Op, you will also find that most organized PvP'rs have super inflated egos. They can't live without those egos being super inflated and that no one is better than them, as you can see from posts above me and all over the PvP forum... Just keep this in mind the next time you get into a discussion with someone...
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Now since they are firing cloaked there hull buffs are probably only being used once they have been declaoked i.e. hull and shield, since they are a torp & mine boat where will there power be? obvoiusly in thier speed and shields, they don't need power in weapons cause it dont make any difference to torps. So its harder to hit because they are a small target and they move fast and if they unfortunate to be decloaked and tractored polarise hull or omega evasive manouvres and there gone. Basically you set that ship up right and its unlikely to be destroyed as i have witnessed, is that skill? i can have a pretty good guess how that ship is set up, never flown it. As for the old TRIBBLE about its the skill not the ship and weapons the klinks use, how is it i spent a good minute dealing with a TRIBBLE load off acetone asimm laid and there is no real person to be seen! so klinks deplo a TRIBBLE load of devices and send thier pet after you to occupy with no risk to them selves thats skill,.
I used to play starfleet command and people somtimes complained that pvp in that was un balance especailly the mods, the problem was more about the ships themselves, however all the weapons were all available to all sides no one had the advantage, and klinks could be detected cloaked using certain tactics and destroyed if they didnt decloak, the skill sets were the same this made for far better balanced fights between fed v klinks than is currently the case in this game.
As for the comment made regarding being beat by a better skilled klink and that the reason to go back to fed v fed, i saw no skill in what he was dong press fire torp deploy assimulators and mines and just spam this make sure i cant be caught and basically its i can see you i can hit you but you cant see me and if you do i will run and come back when buffs have worn off! Its like another klink in a BOP i see often Lymru what does this guy do, he declaoks uses his alpha strike with beam overload III and if he hasnt taken you out he runs like the wind activating his Battle claok, never ever seen this guy hang around for more than 5 secs. Did he get tractored sure he did, like some one said here already just a 1 trick pony, o yes he has been chased but since he moves faster than light and he has his battle cloak which more than aid is get away. defaint pulled this trick, got caught by pursuing klinks could cloak because klinks caought up to him before cooldown had elapsed poor fed if only he has a battle cloak like Siskos ship! yep i see plenty of skill next klinks will be telling the pilots in the bug ship are really the best out there, and its just coincidence that they happen to be in the bug ship! but its not down to the bug ship being so good its solely down to them!
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Actually I find that those who refuse to learn and who think they know everything, such as fail PvEers, tend to have huge egos.
Unjustifiably so, of course.
They think that because of their narrow experience in beating helpless PvE mobs, that they know the game on the level of those who actually have to beat another brain in game.
It's only natural that those who have to rise to the challenge of beating another brain are going to put the most effort in understanding the mechanics of the game, and thusly will be better equipped to handle the game.
And you won't find another more open community in the game than the OPvP community. No other community in the game puts as much effort as this one in teaching others how to play the game.
You only have to want to learn and not be ashamed to ask.
This is so fail. Any I think I stated to you in another post I am not just a "PvE'r" as you would like to believe. Whether you believe me or not, I don't care, but I DO know my way around PvP which is why I choose to argue for it and against those that refuse to adapt and change since the game DOES evolve, but you just want to keep doing things which you know work (aka, cookie cutter builds). However since the game is evolving and its requiring the PvP community to change, and they don't want to, they whine to get things their way so they don't have to change. Its an age old argument in any game. STO is not any different and neither are you.
But since I have no ego, like others here, I don't have to boast how good I am or that "I am better than you" because my brain actually works and tells me, "There is always someone better". Nobody likes to loose, even me, but the PvP community is the worst at it.
"Hey, lets go out in the school yard and beat each other till we bleed. I bet I will win!" lol fail fail fail...
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You do fail in all of your critiques in this subforum.
Never have you demonstrated any competence in any of the subjects you've tried to argue in.
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't dyslexic? There is professional help for that you know. All you have to do is ask...
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No offense, but none of your posts require anything other than casual responses at best.
Nothing you've ever posted in the PvP subforums requires more than a laugh.
Your analysis on Tric mines was particularly hilarious too.
Irelevant to the thread as Klingons have always enjoyed killing feds more, never really had the numbers for KvK and we have never threatened to run hide when the battle gets tough in the FvK ques.
What was your point? Thats we are a small subset of the playerbase and would rather kill feds?
The OPs post is a " lets take our ball and go inside and play by ourselves" post just like we've all seen in the past.
And ots still sad.
R.I.P
The reason FvK seems dead sometimes (slow to actually pop a queue), isn't because KDF cheese is overpowered (both sides are perfectly guilty of that), it's that the Feds get whiny about losing, sometimes just in game, sometimes here on the forums, and go to FvF, leaving the KDF players to wait on FvK queues to pop, or do warzones, or not PvP at all.
I'm not saying it's RIGHT for KDF players to purely cheese it up, but then again, it isn't RIGHT for Fed players to cheese it up either. I don't think I really ever see KDF players moaning about Feds cheesing it up big time in the queues.
So basically: Everyone's guilty of it. Learn to deal with the cheese if you are gonna queue for pugging of any kind. I see cheese anywhere and everywhere, even in FvF queues, yet folks don't say much about that.
/channel_join OrganizedPvP and make a pugmade or ask for a spot in a pugmade.
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
Ding ding ding, we have a WinRAR.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't an idiot? There's professional help for that you know, all you have to do is ask...
The OP in his first and other post sounds like a player who was beat by a skilled player who built his B'rel correctly for the job it was designed for in combat and after reading the second post where he refought the same player and still complained about the unfairness of a bird of Prey doing hit n' run attacks, I now think his yowling about it displays ineptitude that borders on the imbecillic.
And I mean that in a caring way.
Should we KDF players complain about the Defiants ability to decloak strike and loiter in combat, a combat role its very well designed for? I think not.
Its time to stop complaining OP over someone playing to the strengths of thier vessel and class and as others have said buck-up and learn to play to your strengths instead
R.I.P
I dont play my fed other than to mine him for resources
I stopped queing for fvk arena pugs becuase if I don't remember or know* the PvPers involved I know its as sure s death and taxes that the losing side will blame cheese even when its not been used in the match.
Who the hell wants to play in any match where win or lose its always "the cheese" even if nobody ever pops a AA, DpB buffed Trics, siphon pods or anything cheesy to win and its just a matter of better skill and builds beat skill and builds?
Hell some players pvping now have such a skewed concept of knowledge but abundance of ego that now cloaking is cheese, Hit N run attacks are cheese, communication is cheese, etc etc, basically now even accepted and common tactics is cheese if you beat someone.
Thats the real cheese of STO PvP.
We are quick to complain at each other instead of pushing the Devs more to fix things it seems at times.
If siphon Drones are still not balanced - keep pushing.
AA not balanced - keep pushing
TB shuttles not balanced - keep pushing
etc etc.
I'll stick to Ker'rat** and the rare CnHs, where its more anything goes and I can PvP or try to win the missions, or both on my schedule but frankly I haven't played becuase one) as a KDF fan there is shytte-all to do really but PvP for fun and run foundry***and two) the egoes of those involved has spoiled the fun of it in arena.
*Those whom know me know I know you or at least remember you and know that your egoes dont lend to being easily hurt or gloatful.
** because I can leave if it gets cheesy without causing others to lose as well.
*** Some really good ones exist.
R.I.P
Time return to Windows card games. If I want to fight against carrier I launch Harpoon and play Russians.
I think the resulting discussion from my question shows pretty clearly that it isn't at all irrelevant to the thread.
So you actually speak for all Klingon players everywhere now Roach? :P
Again, you like to bring up this "run and hide" statement, but it's pretty clear the Klingons want nothing to do with fighting other Klingons for the most part.
The standard answer to your question has always been we would rather kill the feds than each other everytime a fed asks it trying to show evidence that we KDF do not want to fight each other as if we are scared of fighting ourselves due to cheese.
Its still a silly attempt at trying prove a mindset that doesn't exist among the KDF fanbase.
Every Klink I know often clicks to join KvK que and the Fvk arena and Fvk CnH, but when push comes to shove why would I want to fight someone we may know very well, have fought beside often enough to know the tactics they use and even puged arena's with when we can fight feds and get more satisfaction. Its not like our playerbase is as large as the feds to make it interesting for long.
I personally enjoy fighting those I see as the enemy than those I have called friends and fight alongside more ofted in my own faction.
hey, though you keep thinking it does prove something even though it means squat. All it shows me is the feds like to defend thier run hide attitude when they cant fight.
But since you think it does mean something, how do you explain the growing disatisfaction with FvF PvP? Where will you all run hide when you get tired of playing with yourselves?
R.I.P
what discussion? One yes, one No response? Thats hardly the whole of the KDF playerbase, though according to Cryptic it may not be far offbase.
As to speaking for the whole KDF, I do not, but as the response is always the same - we enjoy killing feds more - it felt safe to say so.
The OP though is just ******** more than anything else, and the " run and hide in FvF" is the second oldest response in the game when this happens, the oldest being " PvP is unfair". Folowed soon by the classic "KDF cloaking is unfair" threads, BoPs are OP threads and all manner of responses that puts the blaim anywhere but on the one crying about it becvuase they lost to a possibly better player.
Thats exactly what the OP describes. He lost to a player that played better than himself.
It happens all the time.
R.I.P
In a majority of cases, especially with Bird of Prey's kitted out for Alpha Striking, it is what you are supposed to so: wait, activate Tac buffs, decloak, attack and either a) Destroy your opponent and leave, recloaking when it is off cooldown or b) Buff up, pray you don't die and GTFO quickly.
Why? Because a BOP is truly the most fragile ship in the game besides the Failquarius. They sacrificed hull, shields, and a weapon slot to gain universal stations and a battle cloak. The battle cloak is not an OP device, it is the BOP's lifeline, otherwise the poor ship will be destroyed by anything bigger than it, which is the Failquarius' main problem: BOP stats, but no way to escape when truly needed.
You should try the BOP, then come back when you realize how truly vulnerable you are when you are in it
Increase in availability of KDF cheese.
Increase in hybrid cheese.
Increase in Fed cheese.
Increase in broken cheese.
Overall increases in cheese.
Increased dissatisfaction with FvF PvP is a sign of increased dissatisfaction with PvP in general, no?
Along the lines of why some would suggest that KvK is worse...the increase in hybrid chease, the increase in Fed cheese, the increase in broken cheese, and the additional availability of KDF cheese not yet available to Feds make the KvK PvP worse than the FvF PvP...there's more cheese.
Consider the Dominion lockbox - if it adds Plasmonic Leech or Aceton Assimilators for the Feds...will there not be an increased dissatisfaction with FvF?
As for things like the Feds that complain about cloaking, I've always suggested that it's easy enough for them to get a KDF toon with a BoP - they should do that and try flying it without cloaking. Then they can come back and say whether they feel the same way about it or not...
As for premades, well - when somebody queues up for some casual PvP fun by joining the queues and they get slaughtered by a premade - it's not cheese, but it sure as Hell isn't any fun. Given the existence of the OPvP channel, the forums, etc, etc, etc - there are plenty of opportunities for premades to be able to find premades to fight each other if they're interested in challenging matches. If they're just looking to soften their skills while inflating their egos...well, they can keep pugstomping I suppose.
No doubt there are going to be folks out there that their fragile egos simply cannot accept that they lost for any other reason that cheese or some technical glitch, etc, etc, etc. I have an ego like that, kind of... my fragile ego simply cannot accept that I won for any other reason than I must unknowingly be using something that's cheese, broken, or that the person that lost experienced some technical glitch.
I go into a fight expecting to lose. I set expectations for myself pretty low - which usually means that when I lose, there's not this huge letdown - there's not that sense of disappointment or frustration, etc, etc, etc. Thing is, there is cheese and there is broken stuff - so there's still frustration involved - there's still a desire not to queue again. Yep, even with having gone into a match with the twisted mentality of expecting to lose...one can still have that effit feeling in regard to STO PvP because of cheese.
It's casual PvP. It's like peewee soccer. It's meaningless fun. You can still have fun in losing. Nobody's fighting for territory - it's not a case that you lose and the other sides taking over your planet, either selling your women into prostitution or paving over your ancestral farm to build a Wal-Mart. It's just casual PvP... good ol' pewpew fun. All the nonsense cheese and broken TRIBBLE can ruin that...
...so yeah, I can easily see a reason for the increased dissatisfaction with FvF PvP.
...and yeah, I can see where the crossfaction console in the Dominion lockbox is only going to make that worse.