One of the biggest issues with Enterprise is the seasion ending was written up so it made the whole show seem like Rikers Holodeck mid life crisis.
The intended implication was clearly that he was viewing a historical holoprogram in the last episode. I'm not sure why so many people think it means the whole series was fictitious (in-universe, of course).
The reason Enterprise died was pretty simple. After 14 years of continuous Trek, people needed a break from the franchise. When Enterprise's first season didn't impress them, they decided to leave.
If Enterprise had come out a few years later than it did, people probably would have given it the same chance they gave TNG, DS9, and VOY when each respective series had less-than-impressive first seasons.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
The intended implication was clearly that he was viewing a historical holoprogram in the last episode. I'm not sure why so many people think it means the whole series was fictitious (in-universe, of course).
Well its like the ending of Newhart, right? Whole thing was a crazy dream.
Does make you think though. I don't think the intention was that the whole thing was a series of historical holodeck programs being viewed 200 years down the road. But if it was, how accurate were they? Maybe they were put together by a complete hack of a historian.
Really? So many people dislike the ENTERPRISE theme song, of any of them?
I've been into Star Trek since the early '90s, and it instantly became my favorite opening. I can't see a better-fitting song other than that "Space, the final frontier" one voiced over by Scott Bakula. Actually, they're equally good, IMO.
Then again, I'm the insane type that enjoys both J-pop and country music somehow. But meh.
Star Trek: Enterprise was a great addition to Star Trek.
To this person I say yes! Otaku and lover of Country! ^_^
This might be exaggerating a bit. It may be true before the start of conscription during the war, but there are enough counter examples in our timeline to refute that as the absolute rule. It's been a long time since I've seen this episode, but I recall the actors dropping hints that their inclusion in the SS wasn't exactly comfortable to everyone, but they were winning the war with their help so no one complained.
Plus, it's very plausible if someone alien came to with technology to conquer the world, you would be willing to bend the rules a little.
Sorry, time travelling space TRIBBLE will never work for me, no matter how you can rationalize it. Some things just push the suspension of disbelief barrier too far, and this is a good example.
And the Ent theme music really, really sucked.
And you obviously never watched an episode of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann or Vandread or even watched/read any of Asobi ni Iku yo! (Which gets love for countless shout outs...including to Star Trek).
And you obviously never watched an episode of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann or Vandread or even watched/read any of Asobi ni Iku yo! (Which gets love for countless shout outs...including to Star Trek).
The willing suspension of disbelief is a very tricky animal indeed, my well versed anime friend. Not many have seen Vandread let alone heard of it, so props to you for that.
But the thing you must understand is what's believeable in one series, doesn't make it believable in another. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann does have planet sized robots, but it built up to them by showing us that world, and establishing it's technology and what it's (in)capable of.
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann may be an absolutely insane series, but it still has it's own internal logic and sets of rules that the universe follows. A walking aircraft-carrier-land-battleship is established to be a possible thing in the world of Gurren Lagann.
But in Star Trek it would seem rather.... out of place. It follows different narrative structure, and the universe follows different laws and physics.
So in other words, I can believe in anything as long as the story gives me a reason too.
So there can be Space Alien TRIBBLE's in TOS, but Enterprise doesn't cut it?
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I enjoyed Enterprise for the most part. I hated what they did with Archer. The temporal arc wasn't good. I'd rather re-watch Enterprise than TOS.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
True enough on all that but they had The Q (A race of Haruhi Suzumayas if I ever saw one...without the restraining bolts) so I will forgive them the Time Traveling Space TRIBBLE.
Shameless but somewhat relevant as anime was brought up: I recently launched a head canon in my mind involving drop various anime characters into the STO world...Mecha show characters in an Escort, Magical Girls in a Cruiser...and the casts of Rosario+Vampire, Grenadier, Dirty Pair, and Kiddy Grade in a Science Vessel. All the blame goes to Q2.
My only problem with Enterprise's space TRIBBLE episodes was where they put them in the season.
The Xindi arc, which I enjoy, had its climax and we needed a moments rest from that. We needed the episode "Home" to be the season finale. But no what we got was "Our heroes save the day... and then are flung back in time for some reason." Just a completely out of left field WTF moment that was not necessary.
We needed a denouement from the Xindi arc before we started something new but what we got was a shoehorned cliffhanger.
My only problem with Enterprise's space TRIBBLE episodes was where they put them in the season.
The Xindi arc, which I enjoy, had its climax and we needed a moments rest from that. We needed the episode "Home" to be the season finale. But no what we got was "Our heroes save the day... and then are flung back in time for some reason." Just a completely out of left field WTF moment that was not necessary.
We needed a denouement from the Xindi arc before we started something new but what we got was a shoehorned cliffhanger.
I think the reason they put "Storm Front" there because the series was in serious danger of cancellation. They put the cliffhanger there so that if the series did get cancelled, the people who cancelled it would never hear the end of it from the fans.
But I do agree, I wish it had been situated somewhere else in Season 4.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I'd say more season 2, since it was Temporal Cold War stuff.
Anyway I imagine you're correct about the behind the scenes stuff. From Memory Alpha:
Rumors circulated before the airing of this episode speculating that as many as three endings were shot; however producers have denied these rumors, stating that if the series had been canceled following that season, the show would have ended on a cliffhanger. (citation needed ? edit) (In a special feature on the Season 4 DVD, Connor Trinneer says he believes that the producers deliberately created an ending so ambiguous that, had the series been canceled, the reaction to it ending that way would've been so negative as to make the network execs miserable ? calling it a "wily move" on their part.)
4. WWII was still fairly recent, and something everyone identified with.
5. TOS did it first.
So no. It don't cut it.
It still strikes me as being hypocritical for people to hate on Ent for not being more than it was. It was fine for TOS to do hokey, stupid plots(half of them), but not Ent?
I feel that part of the issue that Ent had was that fans expected too much. Sure it had flaws of it's own, but I feel that it was a worthy addition to the universe.
You got me there. Never watched them. Or heard of them.
...*twitches before putting on his spiky orange sunglasses and dawning the red and blue cape with a flaming red skull wearing black version of said shades*
WHO THE <BLEEP> DO YOU THINK I AM!!!! THE FACT YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF THE BIGGEST BAD<BLEEP> LEADERS OF TEAM DAI-GURREN IS AN INSULT TO BAD<BLEEP>ES EVERYWHERE! TO HAVE NOT HEARD OF THE GREAT KAMINA OR SIMON THE DIGGER IS...
*falls over laughing*
Sorry, I had to do that I felt.
But yeah, the poster above me pretty much voices what I think. TOS could get away with what it did because of the times and people should of maybe let Enterprise get more of a chance.
So there can be Space Alien TRIBBLE's in TOS, but Enterprise doesn't cut it?
In addition to what centersolace said, those Space TRIBBLE's were turned into space TRIBBLE by a Federation observer. You get a bit of a believability pass if you are led astray from outside interference.
And also, the TOS space TRIBBLE weren't time travelers. Like I said a few pages back - Time travel? ok. Space TRIBBLE's? ok. Time travelling space TRIBBLE's? A bridge too far.
...*twitches before putting on his spiky orange sunglasses and dawning the red and blue cape with a flaming red skull wearing black version of said shades*
WHO THE <BLEEP> DO YOU THINK I AM!!!! THE FACT YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF THE BIGGEST BAD<BLEEP> LEADERS OF TEAM DAI-GURREN IS AN INSULT TO BAD<BLEEP>ES EVERYWHERE! TO HAVE NOT HEARD OF THE GREAT KAMINA OR SIMON THE DIGGER IS...
*falls over laughing*
Sorry, I had to do that I felt.
But yeah, the poster above me pretty much voices what I think. TOS could get away with what it did because of the times and people should of maybe let Enterprise get more of a chance.
Not all geeks are anime fans. I also have no idea what you're talking about.
Not all geeks are anime fans. I also have no idea what you're talking about.
He's talking about Kamina, one of the characters of Gurren Lagann, he would dress up like that and strut around before blowing the TRIBBLE out of an enemy, later Simon would take to doing the same thing after Kamina was killed.
In addition to what centersolace said, those Space TRIBBLE's were turned into space TRIBBLE by a Federation observer. You get a bit of a believability pass if you are led astray from outside interference.
And also, the TOS space TRIBBLE weren't time travelers. Like I said a few pages back - Time travel? ok. Space TRIBBLE's? ok. Time travelling space TRIBBLE's? A bridge too far.
The space TRIBBLE in Enterprise weren't actually TRIBBLE. They were just using the TRIBBLE to build a temporal conduit to get back to their own time.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
In addition to what centersolace said, those Space TRIBBLE's were turned into space TRIBBLE by a Federation observer. You get a bit of a believability pass if you are led astray from outside interference.
And also, the TOS space TRIBBLE weren't time travelers. Like I said a few pages back - Time travel? ok. Space TRIBBLE's? ok. Time travelling space TRIBBLE's? A bridge too far.
I thought it was okay because the Nakuhl weren't really TRIBBLE. They just pretended to be while on Earth.
I thought it was okay because the Nakuhl weren't really TRIBBLE. They just pretended to be while on Earth.
I know guys. Obviously, I have seen the episodes.
My point is (and has always been) that sometimes writers combine too many elements that require suspension of disbelief into a 43 minute episode. The story becomes something that can't be taken seriously any longer and the audience is left thinking the entire thing is silly and contrived and then becomes something of a running joke from that point forward.
I didn't see any time travelling space TRIBBLE's wearing water skis and heading out to go jump sharks with Fonzie, but it was still pretty bad.
A reason why space TRIBBLE were okay in TOS is that most of the crew and audience has some experience fighting real TRIBBLE. By the time Ent rolled around, TRIBBLE had become a lazy generic badguy.
I liked ENT, but... not the Xindi/Temporal Cold War thing. I wanted 'building the Federation' theme not some weird time travel thing out of left field.
I liked season 1 where they were getting started, learning, and pissing off Klingons. And Season 4 where they were dealing with the inter-species rivalries and Romulans being sneaky.
And the biggest travesty of all... the final episode. It was an insult to the series and franchise. I'd burn it's memory out of my brain if I could. If you have not seen it already, don't and just consider Terra Prime the last episode. You'll be much happier.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
It still strikes me as being hypocritical for people to hate on Ent for not being more than it was. It was fine for TOS to do hokey, stupid plots(half of them), but not Ent?
I feel that part of the issue that Ent had was that fans expected too much. Sure it had flaws of it's own, but I feel that it was a worthy addition to the universe.
I am many things, and a hypocrite isn't one of them. I'll be the first to say that TOS had hokey stupid plots, all the Star Treks have. And it's not like hokey episodes are bad, The Gamsters of Triskelion is a dumb, dumb, dumb episode and I love every minute of it.
No. The issue I have with ENT is that the stupid hokey plots are the same stupid hokey plots.
It's just more of the same stuff. And with all the budget, CGI, makeup technologies and everything else they had, they gave us more of the same.
I mean, after the godforsaken Xindi arc they decided to give us another bleeding time travel plot!!!! Why would you do that???
A reason why space TRIBBLE were okay in TOS is that most of the crew and audience has some experience fighting real TRIBBLE. By the time Ent rolled around, TRIBBLE had become a lazy generic badguy.
Didn't I say this already? But yes. This is a big part of it.
Archer was supposed to be a large gruff comic book type character that Kirk looked up to.
Not a whiny little Btch that looked like he didn't have enough bran in his diet every episode.
Virtually anyone would have been a better choice.
If they wanted to make Archer cooler they should have given him a wife.
Seriously.
Archer always struck me as someone who should have been more like Sisko or Chief O'Brien. Someone who loves his family, and treats his friends and crew like one too, but takes no TRIBBLE. Instead, we got someone more like.... Janeway....
I am many things, and a hypocrite isn't one of them. I'll be the first to say that TOS had hokey stupid plots, all the Star Treks have. And it's not like hokey episodes are bad, The Gamsters of Triskelion is a dumb, dumb, dumb episode and I love every minute of it.
No. The issue I have with ENT is that the stupid hokey plots are the same stupid hokey plots.
It's just more of the same stuff. And with all the budget, CGI, makeup technologies and everything else they had, they gave us more of the same.
I mean, after the godforsaken Xindi arc they decided to give us another bleeding time travel plot!!!! Why would you do that???
I didn't see Ent as being that similar. Which specific episodes are you thinking of? Aside from both episodes having TRIBBLE, Storm Front and Patterns of Force have almost nothing in common with each other.
At any rate, I saw Storm Front as a way to do a final wrap up to the TCW arc. And well, it was better than most of the rest of the TCW.... Except the Sphere builders.... that part was kinda cool.
I didn't see Ent as being that similar. Which specific episodes are you thinking of? Aside from both episodes having TRIBBLE, Storm Front and Patterns of Force have almost nothing in common with each other.
At any rate, I saw Storm Front as a way to do a final wrap up to the TCW arc. And well, it was better than most of the rest of the TCW.... Except the Sphere builders.... that part was kinda cool.
He isn't comparing the two occurrences of space TRIBBLE against each other, he is pointing out that overall, Enterprise was just tired tropes and plot rehashes. We had space TRIBBLE's. We had a version of Journey to Babel, we had Organians. Hell, they even retconned TNG with the Frozen Borg episode.
Know why I think TOS gets a pass on some of those hokey plots? They did them first, and usually better, with nothing near the budget Enterprise enjoyed.
Overall, I found Enterprise to be very disappointing. The time travelling space TRIBBLE were just the final straw for me. I did really enjoy the mirror universe episodes, thou - one instance where something old was re-done well (except I thought that Evil-Archer was a little overly psychotic)
Ok, which "tropes" are you specifically thinking of? Aliens trying to take over Earth in the past? Space Blood Feuds? Mysterious races that get seen once and never again? Super artifacts that could destroy civilization as we know it? Alien Warlords who don't like us? Super aliens that are stupidly powerful?
Um, let's face it.... most of those are ST staples....
I actually thought that the Xindi were a pretty novel idea. Sure some people will go "They're just x, y, and z." Meh.... most of the tropes used in TOS were rehashed from older scifi. Go watch Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers some time.
Comments
The intended implication was clearly that he was viewing a historical holoprogram in the last episode. I'm not sure why so many people think it means the whole series was fictitious (in-universe, of course).
The reason Enterprise died was pretty simple. After 14 years of continuous Trek, people needed a break from the franchise. When Enterprise's first season didn't impress them, they decided to leave.
If Enterprise had come out a few years later than it did, people probably would have given it the same chance they gave TNG, DS9, and VOY when each respective series had less-than-impressive first seasons.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Well its like the ending of Newhart, right? Whole thing was a crazy dream.
Does make you think though. I don't think the intention was that the whole thing was a series of historical holodeck programs being viewed 200 years down the road. But if it was, how accurate were they? Maybe they were put together by a complete hack of a historian.
Probably by a 30th century Revisionist-History-Time-Travelling-Space-TRIBBLE historian.
Those guys are shifty.
To this person I say yes! Otaku and lover of Country! ^_^
And you obviously never watched an episode of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann or Vandread or even watched/read any of Asobi ni Iku yo! (Which gets love for countless shout outs...including to Star Trek).
Shameless Question: Which reminds me...I am close to getting my next ship and going to go with an LRSV...anyone want to design a patch with This gal in the middle and the designation and name of the ship (U.S.S. Eris).
The willing suspension of disbelief is a very tricky animal indeed, my well versed anime friend. Not many have seen Vandread let alone heard of it, so props to you for that.
But the thing you must understand is what's believeable in one series, doesn't make it believable in another. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann does have planet sized robots, but it built up to them by showing us that world, and establishing it's technology and what it's (in)capable of.
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann may be an absolutely insane series, but it still has it's own internal logic and sets of rules that the universe follows. A walking aircraft-carrier-land-battleship is established to be a possible thing in the world of Gurren Lagann.
But in Star Trek it would seem rather.... out of place. It follows different narrative structure, and the universe follows different laws and physics.
So in other words, I can believe in anything as long as the story gives me a reason too.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
1. TOS had an abysmal budget.
2. CGI didn't exist back then.
3. Makeup technology sucked back then too.
4. WWII was still fairly recent, and something everyone identified with.
5. TOS did it first.
So no. It don't cut it.
Shameless but somewhat relevant as anime was brought up: I recently launched a head canon in my mind involving drop various anime characters into the STO world...Mecha show characters in an Escort, Magical Girls in a Cruiser...and the casts of Rosario+Vampire, Grenadier, Dirty Pair, and Kiddy Grade in a Science Vessel. All the blame goes to Q2.
The Xindi arc, which I enjoy, had its climax and we needed a moments rest from that. We needed the episode "Home" to be the season finale. But no what we got was "Our heroes save the day... and then are flung back in time for some reason." Just a completely out of left field WTF moment that was not necessary.
We needed a denouement from the Xindi arc before we started something new but what we got was a shoehorned cliffhanger.
I think the reason they put "Storm Front" there because the series was in serious danger of cancellation. They put the cliffhanger there so that if the series did get cancelled, the people who cancelled it would never hear the end of it from the fans.
But I do agree, I wish it had been situated somewhere else in Season 4.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Anyway I imagine you're correct about the behind the scenes stuff. From Memory Alpha:
You got me there. Never watched them. Or heard of them.
I feel that part of the issue that Ent had was that fans expected too much. Sure it had flaws of it's own, but I feel that it was a worthy addition to the universe.
My character Tsin'xing
...*twitches before putting on his spiky orange sunglasses and dawning the red and blue cape with a flaming red skull wearing black version of said shades*
WHO THE <BLEEP> DO YOU THINK I AM!!!! THE FACT YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF THE BIGGEST BAD<BLEEP> LEADERS OF TEAM DAI-GURREN IS AN INSULT TO BAD<BLEEP>ES EVERYWHERE! TO HAVE NOT HEARD OF THE GREAT KAMINA OR SIMON THE DIGGER IS...
*falls over laughing*
Sorry, I had to do that I felt.
But yeah, the poster above me pretty much voices what I think. TOS could get away with what it did because of the times and people should of maybe let Enterprise get more of a chance.
In addition to what centersolace said, those Space TRIBBLE's were turned into space TRIBBLE by a Federation observer. You get a bit of a believability pass if you are led astray from outside interference.
And also, the TOS space TRIBBLE weren't time travelers. Like I said a few pages back - Time travel? ok. Space TRIBBLE's? ok. Time travelling space TRIBBLE's? A bridge too far.
Not all geeks are anime fans. I also have no idea what you're talking about.
Archer was supposed to be a large gruff comic book type character that Kirk looked up to.
Not a whiny little Btch that looked like he didn't have enough bran in his diet every episode.
Virtually anyone would have been a better choice.
He just didn't fit the role, every time the Enterprise encountered a problem I expect Bakula to say "Oh Boy", his catch phrase from Quantum leap.
Also...I was talking about the leaders and main characters of TTGL...the way they would of. ^_^
I was disappointed that he didn't do the spinning roundhouse kick... Not even once...
The space TRIBBLE in Enterprise weren't actually TRIBBLE. They were just using the TRIBBLE to build a temporal conduit to get back to their own time.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
My character Tsin'xing
I know guys. Obviously, I have seen the episodes.
My point is (and has always been) that sometimes writers combine too many elements that require suspension of disbelief into a 43 minute episode. The story becomes something that can't be taken seriously any longer and the audience is left thinking the entire thing is silly and contrived and then becomes something of a running joke from that point forward.
I didn't see any time travelling space TRIBBLE's wearing water skis and heading out to go jump sharks with Fonzie, but it was still pretty bad.
I liked season 1 where they were getting started, learning, and pissing off Klingons. And Season 4 where they were dealing with the inter-species rivalries and Romulans being sneaky.
And the biggest travesty of all... the final episode. It was an insult to the series and franchise. I'd burn it's memory out of my brain if I could. If you have not seen it already, don't and just consider Terra Prime the last episode. You'll be much happier.
I am many things, and a hypocrite isn't one of them. I'll be the first to say that TOS had hokey stupid plots, all the Star Treks have. And it's not like hokey episodes are bad, The Gamsters of Triskelion is a dumb, dumb, dumb episode and I love every minute of it.
No. The issue I have with ENT is that the stupid hokey plots are the same stupid hokey plots.
It's just more of the same stuff. And with all the budget, CGI, makeup technologies and everything else they had, they gave us more of the same.
I mean, after the godforsaken Xindi arc they decided to give us another bleeding time travel plot!!!! Why would you do that???
Didn't I say this already?
If they wanted to make Archer cooler they should have given him a wife.
Seriously.
Archer always struck me as someone who should have been more like Sisko or Chief O'Brien. Someone who loves his family, and treats his friends and crew like one too, but takes no TRIBBLE. Instead, we got someone more like.... Janeway....
At any rate, I saw Storm Front as a way to do a final wrap up to the TCW arc. And well, it was better than most of the rest of the TCW.... Except the Sphere builders.... that part was kinda cool.
My character Tsin'xing
He isn't comparing the two occurrences of space TRIBBLE against each other, he is pointing out that overall, Enterprise was just tired tropes and plot rehashes. We had space TRIBBLE's. We had a version of Journey to Babel, we had Organians. Hell, they even retconned TNG with the Frozen Borg episode.
Know why I think TOS gets a pass on some of those hokey plots? They did them first, and usually better, with nothing near the budget Enterprise enjoyed.
Overall, I found Enterprise to be very disappointing. The time travelling space TRIBBLE were just the final straw for me. I did really enjoy the mirror universe episodes, thou - one instance where something old was re-done well (except I thought that Evil-Archer was a little overly psychotic)
Um, let's face it.... most of those are ST staples....
I actually thought that the Xindi were a pretty novel idea. Sure some people will go "They're just x, y, and z." Meh.... most of the tropes used in TOS were rehashed from older scifi. Go watch Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers some time.
And yes, I loved Empress Hoshi.
My character Tsin'xing