Personally? I rather like that. It prevents people from failing at 10 STFs and getting everything, and people like me who have done them so often we could do them in our sleep and never get anything. Everyone had an equal chance now.
I hear ya - I'm gonna play the devils advocate, tho, and argue the other side of the issue (for once) and say that it also took away the sense of achievement in getting a complete endgame set, since basicly now you "unlock" it, then buy it.
So I can understand why some of the more elitist players feel there should be equipment that's exclusive to those who actually are very good.
I'll say again and have stated before that I feel that wasn't the case before, with the random drops, in any case - since random is just that - random.
I'm not averse to seeing endgame equipment (even if it's just visually different, with big medals and bells and whistles) that only select few very good players can aquire.
Having some sort of uber version that has the same stats but looks more impressive that requires extraordinary skill to obtain would be quite nice.
Not saying we ever had that, tho, apart from the stupid lockbox ships which are even more random than the old STF loot...
I hear ya - I'm gonna play the devils advocate, tho, and argue the other side of the issue (for once) and say that it also took away the sense of achievement in getting a complete endgame set, since basicly now you "unlock" it, then buy it.
So I can understand why some of the more elitist players feel there should be equipment that's exclusive to those who actually are very good.
I agree.
There is no possible way for the Reputation System to match that feeling of "THANK GOD!!!" that the old system had. A way we could remedy that is through a series of incredibly painful missions that require perfect teamwork, expert timing, and lots of luck to pull off. ("Give up all hope, ye who enter here", type stuff. ) And give these Elite of the Elite missions incredible rewards that give all sorts of costume unlocks and vanity items to replace that feeling of "Look what I did".
1) because they didn't work properly and have been replaced by set bonuses.
Except the passives are weaker against the Borg than the old weapons were (the new [Borg] proc on the ground weapons is weaker too) - the changes have been made to limit the availability of cheap, 'good enough' Mk XII (i.e. blue) and push us towards buying Mk XII weapons with Dilithium.
2) the point of Mk X and XI is to allow players to get it earlier than you describe.
They are cheap and easy to obtain starting at Tier1/2. Your point is mute.
That would be 'moot' - and they may be easy but 'cheap'? All my Boffs have Mk XII MACO, KHG or Omega from Season 6, chances of me spending the kind of Dilithium required to do that now are slim-to-none. I strongly doubt that many VA/LG players will opt for the Mk X/XI gear since doing so is just throwing Dilithium away.
Look at the Borg Mk XII set - the engine is identical to the Mk XI - no changes whatsoever - but you have to buy it - even if you have the Mk XI if you want the full set bonus.
3) Yeah, if you want something you'll have to work for it.
How about a MACO Mk X for a start? You want the BEST shield? Work for it.
Like anything changed in that regard.
My point was that you said 'nobody is expected to do all the rep systems' and that's hogwash - if you want decent purple weapons and story content you have to do the Romulan Rep - if you want the best space sets you have to do the Omega Rep, bottom line is, if you want new shinies and missions, you have to grind the reputation systems because that's the only way you're going to get that stuff from here on in.
You're totally ignoring important parts of your own argument and consequently your conclusions are wrong.
And you're sugar-coating the pill - there's nothing in Season 7 that's better for the player - just more ways for Cryptic to gate content and suck Dilithium out of the economy - if the state of the game was as rosy a picture as you paint then the Dilithium Exchange wouldn't have tanked the way it has - people either aren't earning as much Dilithium as they were before or they're hoarding it because of this next big round of sinks - you can only squeeze the players so much as Cryptic found out from the Season 7 backlash.
I wouldn't have thought it was possible, but I'm starting to feel the same way. The game "feels" like no one on the development side gives a shat about it (or us) beyond it's ability to bring in cash.
What's funny about all the folks saying how you needed to "earn" mark XII don't mention folks like me who ran The Cure ground Elite once on accident and scored a Omega Force Antiproton Autocarbine XII by doing pretty much nothing.
Thankfully the Pug I ran it with carried me though the whole thing and even scored the optional. It was pretty awesome, so realize that in the old system anyone could be carried by the other players to earn the XII gear. And you now do have to grind out the elites yourself even if it just ISE 30+ times.
And you're sugar-coating the pill - there's nothing in Season 7 that's better for the player - just more ways for Cryptic to gate content and suck Dilithium out of the economy - if the state of the game was as rosy a picture as you paint then the Dilithium Exchange wouldn't have tanked the way it has - people either aren't earning as much Dilithium as they were before or they're hoarding it because of this next big round of sinks - you can only squeeze the players so much as Cryptic found out from the Season 7 backlash.
I'm not saying it's good or anything, but the old random system was shabby, too and people are exaggerating the shortcomings of the reputation system (which are things like stack size et cetera and bank/device priority).
Why do all your BOff have all that gear?
Most likely (at least initially) because you grinded it for ages and consequently got massive amounts of doubles before finishing a set.
People are unlikely to get this now, yes, but they were unlikely to get it before, too.
All the established players are heavily influenced by the fact that they already have many things, which is a complex issue but not very relevant to the game itself.
And yes, the MK X ground sets are cheap - and a good start for people getting into elites.
Which is what these features are about.
Just because a 3 year veteran ubergrinder elitist dude has everything twice on every char and BOff doesn't mean the things he doesn't need are useless.
It just means he's pretty crazy.
The game "feels" like no one on the development side gives a shat about it (or us) beyond it's ability to bring in cash.
You see, whilst I'm a harsh critic of STO and Cryptic, I don't agree with that.
I think Branflakes and Bort and Tacofangs and really all of the Devs (and even Stahl) want us to enjoy playing STO, the problem is that every suggestion change and addition is now preceded by the question 'how will it make us money?'
STO's player base is never going to grow much more than it is now - in fact, once the WW event is over it'll shrink for a while until the 3rd Anniversary brings a few people back. Possibly if things continue this way people will drift away gradually diminishing the amount of active players.
So every design decision is based around what they can get out of what they have - and how they can spend the minimal amount of resources to deliver 'content' (Seasons/Rep Systems/Ground and Space sets and equipment and lockbox/C-Store stuff).
Season 7 as it went live was a disaster - they squeezed so hard that the forums erupted in disgust and dismay with what they were trying to do. What we have now is a knee-jerk reaction that's still miserly in some areas (the Doff Dilithium costs, Rom/Fleet Marks rewards) and bizarrely overcompensates in others (Dilithium rewards for Rep projects? Why?).
Obviously Season 7 as it went live was designed to produce a certain amount of revenue for Cryptic - whatever they forecast has been decimated by the changes they were forced to put in place and also by the lack of trust the players now have in their motives (i.e. Dilithium hoarding) - whether they'll accept that they pushed too hard and ease off a bit or alternatively, look for other ways to recoup what there were hoping to get out of Season 7 remains to be seen.
But ultimately, this is the price we, the players pay for our 'free 2 play' game - that our fun and enjoyment will never be the top priority for Cryptic and as long as this game remains free 2 play (likely for the rest of its lifespan) they'll always be squeezing us for more money and making sure that every cool new thing put into the game needs us to either open our wallets or grind Dilithium to gain access to it.
S7 has pretty much made me stop playing. At the beginning of S7 I was playing a lot because I wanted to get all the goodies. But the grinding started to wear on me after a while and now I only log on a couple times a week. If there are friends on I may team up for some pvp, otherwise I just log off. I really dislike the Romulan Mark space missions (and I don't do ground). That's probably what drove me away the most of all-- the fact that there are only 2 space missions to progress through an entire reputation chain, and they are very boring and very easy. If there were more ways to earn marks I'd probably still be a regular player.
You see, whilst I'm a harsh critic of STO and Cryptic, I don't agree with that.
I think Branflakes and Bort and Tacofangs and really all of the Devs (and even Stahl) want us to enjoy playing STO, the problem is that every suggestion change and addition is now preceded by the question 'how will it make us money?'
STO's player base is never going to grow much more than it is now - in fact, once the WW event is over it'll shrink for a while until the 3rd Anniversary brings a few people back. Possibly if things continue this way people will drift away gradually diminishing the amount of active players.
So every design decision is based around what they can get out of what they have - and how they can spend the minimal amount of resources to deliver 'content' (Seasons/Rep Systems/Ground and Space sets and equipment and lockbox/C-Store stuff).
Season 7 as it went live was a disaster - they squeezed so hard that the forums erupted in disgust and dismay with what they were trying to do. What we have now is a knee-jerk reaction that's still miserly in some areas (the Doff Dilithium costs, Rom/Fleet Marks rewards) and bizarrely overcompensates in others (Dilithium rewards for Rep projects? Why?).
Obviously Season 7 as it went live was designed to produce a certain amount of revenue for Cryptic - whatever they forecast has been decimated by the changes they were forced to put in place and also by the lack of trust the players now have in their motives (i.e. Dilithium hoarding) - whether they'll accept that they pushed too hard and ease off a bit or alternatively, look for other ways to recoup what there were hoping to get out of Season 7 remains to be seen.
But ultimately, this is the price we, the players pay for our 'free 2 play' game - that our fun and enjoyment will never be the top priority for Cryptic and as long as this game remains free 2 play (likely for the rest of its lifespan) they'll always be squeezing us for more money and making sure that every cool new thing put into the game needs us to either open our wallets or grind Dilithium to gain access to it.
I agree, but I think they want us to enjoy it enough that we'll spend money on it regularly...not motivated by general 'passion for what they do'. If anybody behind the scenes really had any passion for their jobs/career's in general, the game would have a more 'polished' feel to it. As it is, to me, it feels thrown together while someone runs around with a bottle of virtual white-out to follow behind and clean up the errors(sometimes not even that much). It's almost as if they plan on making mistakes and doing damage control later rather than making sure whatever they are putting out there is tested and 100% ready to go before implementing it.
I also do not believe STO is Free-to-Play, it's Pay-to-Play with the option to play for free. Any game that still retains a subscription model isn't truly F2P. We, as players, pay for it in many ways whether we claim Silver or Gold membership. That 500 ZEN stipend, you could easily look at it as if the $10 of the sub goes to your Gold Membership, bigger bank, etc etc., and the other $5 is that 500 worth of Zen, which I think equals out to about 50k DIL with the conversion(maybe)? They would charge you by the minute if they could here.
That's just my opinion, I don't know what exactly all the benefits of being Gold are as I am not a subscriber. However the problems I've seen in the game, and the general direction this game has taken do not entice me to become one anytime soon. I still spend real money on the game in other ways, I've bought ZEN for ships and also turned it into DIL when the exchange rate was better....the mechanics seem such that you kind of have to at some point whether you sub or not. If I saw 'passion' from those responsible, old programming bugs being repaired then yeah I might be.
I'm not saying it's good or anything, but the old random system was shabby, too and people are exaggerating the shortcomings of the reputation system (which are things like stack size et cetera and bank/device priority).
The only thing that was random was the Mk XII gear (well, and the Salvage but that dropped so frequently that its randomness wasn't really a factor). As has been said many times before, if giving people guaranteed access to the Mk XII sets was really a priority for Cryptic, they could have allowed you to trade EDCs for them - instead they've made you buy them.
Why do all your BOff have all that gear?
Most likely (at least initially) because you grinded it for ages and consequently got massive amounts of doubles before finishing a set.
People are unlikely to get this now, yes, but they were unlikely to get it before, too.
Lots of random drops along the way - a Rare Proto here and there, plenty of EDCs from double-EDC days, lucky Proto drops and a lot of Salvage - it all adds up. For the record, my last alt did 254 STFs before I stopped counting and out of those I got:
2 x Full Set Mk XII Omega ground
1 x Full Set Mk XII KHG ground
2 x Full Set Mk XI Omega ground
1 x Full Set Mk XI KHG ground
1 x Full Set Mk X Omega ground
1 x Full Set Mk XII Omega space
1 x Full Set Mk XII KHG space
1 x Full Set Mk XI Omega space
1 x Full Set Mk XI KHG space
2 x Full Borg space set
4 x Purple Borg Boffs
4 x Blue Borg Boffs
plus two ships worth of Mk XII [Borg] weapons and 300,000+ Dilithium from Salvage/Proto trade-ins prior to the Season 7 Omega Crate swindle. I was already trading in Proto tech and Salvage for Dilithium before that too so I've no idea the actual amount of Dilithium I made in that time (and this doesn't count what I earned just from running the STFs).
All the established players are heavily influenced by the fact that they already have many things, which is a complex issue but not very relevant to the game itself.
And all the players that now finally have guaranteed access to the Mk XII gear are so happy that they're finally going to get their shiny armor and spiffy space shields that they're not stopping to question if this really is a direction they want the game to go in. Maybe once the lustre has worn off...
And yes, the MK X ground sets are cheap - and a good start for people getting into elites.
Which is what these features are about.
When you could've run 5 Elite space stfs (i.e. 2.5 hours) to get a piece of Mk X ground I'd have agreed with you (since the Mk X was a useful starting point for doing the ground Elites) but whether you're buying Mk X or XII now it all costs Marks and Dilithium - there's simply no point in stepping into a ground STF in Mk X or XI now since those currencies are better spent on the Mk XII gear. Plus of course, you no longer have to play ground STFs to get the ground gear and judging by how empty the STF channels are of ground games (90% drop-off) that's exactly what people are doing.
Mk X and XI are pointless now unless you're too impatient to wait for Mk XII (which I suspect Cryptic are counting on).
I agree, but I think they want us to enjoy it enough that we'll spend money on it regularly...not motivated by general 'passion for what they do'. If anybody behind the scenes really had any passion for their jobs/career's in general, the game would have a more 'polished' feel to it. As it is, to me, it feels thrown together while someone runs around with a bottle of virtual white-out to follow behind and clean up the errors(sometimes not even that much). It's almost as if they plan on making mistakes and doing damage control later rather than making sure whatever they are putting out there is tested and 100% ready to go before implementing it.
It is thrown together - I can't remember the exact quote but it's something like 'it's that last 10% that takes 90% of the time' and that's so true. STO is so starved of new end-game content that the Devs have been throwing stuff together and time-gating it to stop us blasting through it and to give them additional time to actually finish it (i.e. the Rom flamethrower).
The team seems to have more artists on it now (Season 7 is basically just a huge wad of art assets) but there's no gameplay - no challenges, and no storytelling on the level of things like the Featured Episodes - it's just a big space and ground theme park where once you've seen it, you've got no real reason to go back there.
I also do not believe STO is Free-to-Play, it's Pay-to-Play with the option to play for free. Any game that still retains a subscription model isn't truly F2P. We, as players, pay for it in many ways whether we claim Silver or Gold membership. That 500 ZEN stipend, you could easily look at it as if the $10 of the sub goes to your Gold Membership, bigger bank, etc etc., and the other $5 is that 500 worth of Zen, which I think equals out to about 50k DIL with the conversion(maybe)? They would charge you by the minute if they could here.
The subscriptions and Lifetime subs are an aberration that should've gone away when STO went F2P - as long as people are laying out large amounts of money or paying reoccurring subscription fees, they're going to expect to get value and loyalty for that investment. But lets not kid ourselves, that money is a drop in the bucket in comparison to what Cryptic's made from lockboxes - they don't care any more for their subscribers than they do the people who genuinely play the game for free - and they want the same thing from both camps - for you to buy the latest shiny from the C-Store or lots of lockbox keys.
That's just my opinion, I don't know what exactly all the benefits of being Gold are as I am not a subscriber. However the problems I've seen in the game, and the general direction this game has taken do not entice me to become one anytime soon. I still spend real money on the game in other ways, I've bought ZEN for ships and also turned it into DIL when the exchange rate was better....the mechanics seem such that you kind of have to at some point whether you sub or not. If I saw 'passion' from those responsible, old programming bugs being repaired then yeah I might be.
They do show passion for the game and its players, just not in ways that would make STO a better, more polished game - the big tickets - PvP, KDF, Featured Episodes and fixing all those long standing bugs won't make them any money - at least that seems to be how they see it. It's been said before though that the Devs have any number of 'off-the-books' projects that they work on in their spare time and I suspect there's a lot more of that going on than any of us know, so every time they do something right by their players I think that's a sign that they're trying - it's just that the goal of STO is no longer to be an immersive, thoughtful and intelligent science fiction MMO - it's simply to make as much money from Star Trek fans as possible before the servers are finally switched off.
I would still like to see omega marks reduced especially for the assimulated borg dish,shields,universal consol and engines X to XI.It is what new player look forward to getting which was easier the old way.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I would still like to see omega marks reduced especially for the assimulated borg dish,shields,universal consol and engines X to XI.It is what new player look forward to getting which was easier the old way.
Yep - if I was starting a new character tomorrow I'd use (at most) the Aegis set until I unlocked Tier 5. The Borg set is kind of irrelevant now (except for those that really like the procs and/or the visuals *shudder*)
Yep - if I was starting a new character tomorrow I'd use (at most) the Aegis set until I unlocked Tier 5. The Borg set is kind of irrelevant now (except for those that really like the procs and/or the visuals *shudder*)
I had to use the Jem Hadar set on one of my KDFs who missed the time it took to get there.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
Well, I'm not complaining, because I pretty much quit lol
Shortly before S7 I was farming STF all day, but this new system pretty much killed my interest.
New Romulus bores me and the other content quickly got old as well, only the winter event kept me logging on for the past few weeks, but even that is done now that I got the jackets and Breen ships.
I have motivation now to play Foundry missions beyond "It beats rolling a new toon and doing those Klingon Front missions again." And taking my shiney new Zstore toys out for a drive has motivated me to find reasons to do so.
Then again, I don't feel lazy entitlement in regards to the game so if the season had just been more fleet TRIBBLE I would have continued to see how long it takes to reach level cap just doing doff missions and not caring much.
It's about two to three months depending on the doff quality.
It is done and over with. They have made the changes and will only make more changes based upon their internal data collection and analysis even if they do have a hard time understanding what the data they collect means.
I have adapted and still fly around and shoot things so it no longer really matters.
Me personally i don't care for it much as i was able to achieve maco and omega mkxii space and ground in shorter time and at very little cost. With the newer system costs me tons of ec's alot of dilithium and i even have to pay for uniform upgrades which should be free, they got rid of the decent space weapons along with the doff's. The only good thing to come out of it is a few new unique items at very expensive costs. Wooopie!
post some screenshots so we can tell whats going on?
Got It! It seems even if your fill or surpass the Reputation to complete a tier you must run a couple of those throw away Omega/Romie marks mission for Dilithium before it gives the option to run the "Choose Passive" mission.
What can I say, I am old school & despite the newly Rep system making it easier for 100% of the playerbase, the system still requires a cost & cheapens the status of endgame gear.
Typically in most MMO's endgame gear should be very difficult to come by - Take for example TERA; only one or two people out of the entire gaming community on the server has the complete endgame set of armor.
It should be a testament of your mettle, an accomplishment that you have endured, outwitted your foe, and that you have overcome impossible odds.
The Rep system just gives it away like a gift certificate with Dilithium cost to it.
Welcome to the new paradigm. Everyone gets to be a hero, and you don't need to accomplish anything, just put time in.
Time is important. Time means subscription, but it also means time buys you anything you want. The old ways only rewarded good players. The new way lets you get the biggest cruiser in the universe and have no idea how to use it despite the lengthy grind that got you onto its bridge.
I hate the new paradigm. Its for lazy people to zone out in. I love the idea of there being content I can't get at if I tried but seeing some godly incarnation of gaming dedication just standing in the bank showing it off.
The new ways seem to desperately try and convince you that the old addage is no longer true: "No matter what, there will always be someone better than you".
I miss those days. I miss the 90s. We had real guts.
They do show passion for the game and its players, just not in ways that would make STO a better, more polished game - the big tickets - PvP, KDF, Featured Episodes and fixing all those long standing bugs won't make them any money - at least that seems to be how they see it.
You're deluding yourself. We aren't talking "passion" at all, this is greed of the dishonest variety.
You're deluding yourself. We aren't talking "passion" at all, this is greed of the dishonest variety.
No - I've worked in the games industry for a long time and I've managed teams of creatives (and worked as a games artist myself) - the team - the artists, programmers, systems people, QA, designers, producers etc. - love what they do, it's just that the goal is no longer to produce an MMO that does justice to the IP and make its fans happy.
It's to wring every last drop of cash out of us before PWE closes STO and/or Cryptic down.
No - I've worked in the games industry for a long time and I've managed teams of creatives (and worked as a games artist myself) - the team - the artists, programmers, systems people, QA, designers, producers etc. - love what they do, it's just that the goal is no longer to produce an MMO that does justice to the IP and make its fans happy.
It's to wring every last drop of cash out of us before PWE closes STO and/or Cryptic down.
I hate to say it, but that may be where we are headed. I can't think of another justification for the P2W nature the game has taken.
On 'passion'; some of them might, but I still stand by my original statement that if the majority DID have passion for what they do or gave a **** the game wouldn't have so many 'holes' in it, and there would be some real QA happening which there isn't.
I've worked in the Industry too, and it royally sucks when you're one of the few that really does care about what you are doing and it seems like not many others around you do....it saps your drive and motivation. Maybe a few bad apples are ruining the bunch....we may never know, and can only speculate as the the state Cryptic's offices are in these days. The common ground I think we have here is that we all wish it would improve.
I've worked in game design and writing in team environments (RPGs), and you know, all the vaunted high art doesn't do squat if the money dries up and there's no game.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
To all you guys talking about the corrupting process of the capital venture angle of game development, I offer you one simple title: Star Citizen.
Star Citizen is the future. The mastermind of Wing Commander asks the internet and receives $6+ million to develop what may become THE modern masterpiece of space sci fi and he can do it without any suits, any executives and run it purely from a creative perspective, because the investors aren't greedy SOBs who don't have any connection to what they fund, but are gamers themselves, the ones who enjoy the end product will be the ones who funded it.
Its a beautiful idea. Crowdfunding I believe will bring a new renaissance to gaming because it'll allow the indie developer the ability to compete with the big box budget while maintaining the purity of a small creative house.
Some people say that Free to Play is the future, and some say that means that Pay to Win is the future. I say thats not the future, thats the desperate strategy of a failing model. EA is so wasteful compared to the guy developing Star Citizen. All that advertizing to get people to buy something when Star Citizen gets you to pay them to build it before you even move a single unit, and in so doing you invest in the kind of game you want, rather than pay endless DLC prices for a title thats kinda sorta maybe gonna be what you want and ultimately becomes the compromize you play to distract you until the next disappointment comes along.
I think the internet can change the way we do business and its possible that indie games won't be limited to the quaint and adorable 8-bit retro movement.
From what I understand, White Wolf has survived for a long time on the rule that every game line must pay for itself and meet certain metrics. While that means a lot of games people like were abandoned, it also means the business didn't collapse from the devs siphoning profits to a heartbreaker people just don't end up buying.
Money matters.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Comments
I hear ya - I'm gonna play the devils advocate, tho, and argue the other side of the issue (for once) and say that it also took away the sense of achievement in getting a complete endgame set, since basicly now you "unlock" it, then buy it.
So I can understand why some of the more elitist players feel there should be equipment that's exclusive to those who actually are very good.
I'll say again and have stated before that I feel that wasn't the case before, with the random drops, in any case - since random is just that - random.
I'm not averse to seeing endgame equipment (even if it's just visually different, with big medals and bells and whistles) that only select few very good players can aquire.
Having some sort of uber version that has the same stats but looks more impressive that requires extraordinary skill to obtain would be quite nice.
Not saying we ever had that, tho, apart from the stupid lockbox ships which are even more random than the old STF loot...
He's dead, Jim.
If you're referring to my crude calculation from memory:
that was for the ground set.
Looking at the Wiki I'm surprised at the accuracy. I only once looked at the prices fleetingly (still working on my Tiers).
9k dil, 500 marks, per piece, so my numbers should be good enough in that regard.
#Edit: Oh, sorry about the double post. I was originally going to copy this into an edit to the previous post but ultimately I forgot to do that.
He's dead, Jim.
I agree.
There is no possible way for the Reputation System to match that feeling of "THANK GOD!!!" that the old system had. A way we could remedy that is through a series of incredibly painful missions that require perfect teamwork, expert timing, and lots of luck to pull off. ("Give up all hope, ye who enter here", type stuff.
Except the passives are weaker against the Borg than the old weapons were (the new [Borg] proc on the ground weapons is weaker too) - the changes have been made to limit the availability of cheap, 'good enough' Mk XII (i.e. blue) and push us towards buying Mk XII weapons with Dilithium.
That would be 'moot' - and they may be easy but 'cheap'? All my Boffs have Mk XII MACO, KHG or Omega from Season 6, chances of me spending the kind of Dilithium required to do that now are slim-to-none. I strongly doubt that many VA/LG players will opt for the Mk X/XI gear since doing so is just throwing Dilithium away.
Look at the Borg Mk XII set - the engine is identical to the Mk XI - no changes whatsoever - but you have to buy it - even if you have the Mk XI if you want the full set bonus.
My point was that you said 'nobody is expected to do all the rep systems' and that's hogwash - if you want decent purple weapons and story content you have to do the Romulan Rep - if you want the best space sets you have to do the Omega Rep, bottom line is, if you want new shinies and missions, you have to grind the reputation systems because that's the only way you're going to get that stuff from here on in.
The only story that's been added to the game since the 2800 in fact.
And you're sugar-coating the pill - there's nothing in Season 7 that's better for the player - just more ways for Cryptic to gate content and suck Dilithium out of the economy - if the state of the game was as rosy a picture as you paint then the Dilithium Exchange wouldn't have tanked the way it has - people either aren't earning as much Dilithium as they were before or they're hoarding it because of this next big round of sinks - you can only squeeze the players so much as Cryptic found out from the Season 7 backlash.
I wouldn't have thought it was possible, but I'm starting to feel the same way. The game "feels" like no one on the development side gives a shat about it (or us) beyond it's ability to bring in cash.
Thankfully the Pug I ran it with carried me though the whole thing and even scored the optional. It was pretty awesome, so realize that in the old system anyone could be carried by the other players to earn the XII gear. And you now do have to grind out the elites yourself even if it just ISE 30+ times.
I'm not saying it's good or anything, but the old random system was shabby, too and people are exaggerating the shortcomings of the reputation system (which are things like stack size et cetera and bank/device priority).
Why do all your BOff have all that gear?
Most likely (at least initially) because you grinded it for ages and consequently got massive amounts of doubles before finishing a set.
People are unlikely to get this now, yes, but they were unlikely to get it before, too.
All the established players are heavily influenced by the fact that they already have many things, which is a complex issue but not very relevant to the game itself.
And yes, the MK X ground sets are cheap - and a good start for people getting into elites.
Which is what these features are about.
Just because a 3 year veteran ubergrinder elitist dude has everything twice on every char and BOff doesn't mean the things he doesn't need are useless.
It just means he's pretty crazy.
He's dead, Jim.
You see, whilst I'm a harsh critic of STO and Cryptic, I don't agree with that.
I think Branflakes and Bort and Tacofangs and really all of the Devs (and even Stahl) want us to enjoy playing STO, the problem is that every suggestion change and addition is now preceded by the question 'how will it make us money?'
STO's player base is never going to grow much more than it is now - in fact, once the WW event is over it'll shrink for a while until the 3rd Anniversary brings a few people back. Possibly if things continue this way people will drift away gradually diminishing the amount of active players.
So every design decision is based around what they can get out of what they have - and how they can spend the minimal amount of resources to deliver 'content' (Seasons/Rep Systems/Ground and Space sets and equipment and lockbox/C-Store stuff).
Season 7 as it went live was a disaster - they squeezed so hard that the forums erupted in disgust and dismay with what they were trying to do. What we have now is a knee-jerk reaction that's still miserly in some areas (the Doff Dilithium costs, Rom/Fleet Marks rewards) and bizarrely overcompensates in others (Dilithium rewards for Rep projects? Why?).
Obviously Season 7 as it went live was designed to produce a certain amount of revenue for Cryptic - whatever they forecast has been decimated by the changes they were forced to put in place and also by the lack of trust the players now have in their motives (i.e. Dilithium hoarding) - whether they'll accept that they pushed too hard and ease off a bit or alternatively, look for other ways to recoup what there were hoping to get out of Season 7 remains to be seen.
But ultimately, this is the price we, the players pay for our 'free 2 play' game - that our fun and enjoyment will never be the top priority for Cryptic and as long as this game remains free 2 play (likely for the rest of its lifespan) they'll always be squeezing us for more money and making sure that every cool new thing put into the game needs us to either open our wallets or grind Dilithium to gain access to it.
@DevolvedOne
I agree, but I think they want us to enjoy it enough that we'll spend money on it regularly...not motivated by general 'passion for what they do'. If anybody behind the scenes really had any passion for their jobs/career's in general, the game would have a more 'polished' feel to it. As it is, to me, it feels thrown together while someone runs around with a bottle of virtual white-out to follow behind and clean up the errors(sometimes not even that much). It's almost as if they plan on making mistakes and doing damage control later rather than making sure whatever they are putting out there is tested and 100% ready to go before implementing it.
I also do not believe STO is Free-to-Play, it's Pay-to-Play with the option to play for free. Any game that still retains a subscription model isn't truly F2P. We, as players, pay for it in many ways whether we claim Silver or Gold membership. That 500 ZEN stipend, you could easily look at it as if the $10 of the sub goes to your Gold Membership, bigger bank, etc etc., and the other $5 is that 500 worth of Zen, which I think equals out to about 50k DIL with the conversion(maybe)? They would charge you by the minute if they could here.
That's just my opinion, I don't know what exactly all the benefits of being Gold are as I am not a subscriber. However the problems I've seen in the game, and the general direction this game has taken do not entice me to become one anytime soon. I still spend real money on the game in other ways, I've bought ZEN for ships and also turned it into DIL when the exchange rate was better....the mechanics seem such that you kind of have to at some point whether you sub or not. If I saw 'passion' from those responsible, old programming bugs being repaired then yeah I might be.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
The only thing that was random was the Mk XII gear (well, and the Salvage but that dropped so frequently that its randomness wasn't really a factor). As has been said many times before, if giving people guaranteed access to the Mk XII sets was really a priority for Cryptic, they could have allowed you to trade EDCs for them - instead they've made you buy them.
Lots of random drops along the way - a Rare Proto here and there, plenty of EDCs from double-EDC days, lucky Proto drops and a lot of Salvage - it all adds up. For the record, my last alt did 254 STFs before I stopped counting and out of those I got:
2 x Full Set Mk XII Omega ground
1 x Full Set Mk XII KHG ground
2 x Full Set Mk XI Omega ground
1 x Full Set Mk XI KHG ground
1 x Full Set Mk X Omega ground
1 x Full Set Mk XII Omega space
1 x Full Set Mk XII KHG space
1 x Full Set Mk XI Omega space
1 x Full Set Mk XI KHG space
2 x Full Borg space set
4 x Purple Borg Boffs
4 x Blue Borg Boffs
plus two ships worth of Mk XII [Borg] weapons and 300,000+ Dilithium from Salvage/Proto trade-ins prior to the Season 7 Omega Crate swindle. I was already trading in Proto tech and Salvage for Dilithium before that too so I've no idea the actual amount of Dilithium I made in that time (and this doesn't count what I earned just from running the STFs).
And all the players that now finally have guaranteed access to the Mk XII gear are so happy that they're finally going to get their shiny armor and spiffy space shields that they're not stopping to question if this really is a direction they want the game to go in. Maybe once the lustre has worn off...
When you could've run 5 Elite space stfs (i.e. 2.5 hours) to get a piece of Mk X ground I'd have agreed with you (since the Mk X was a useful starting point for doing the ground Elites) but whether you're buying Mk X or XII now it all costs Marks and Dilithium - there's simply no point in stepping into a ground STF in Mk X or XI now since those currencies are better spent on the Mk XII gear. Plus of course, you no longer have to play ground STFs to get the ground gear and judging by how empty the STF channels are of ground games (90% drop-off) that's exactly what people are doing.
Mk X and XI are pointless now unless you're too impatient to wait for Mk XII (which I suspect Cryptic are counting on).
Personally, I prefer that a lot to subscription, because if I have more or less money I can do more or less.
Buy a bunch of wacky ships I'll use for a week? Sure!
Scrape and grind dilithium to convert to zen for that one ship I really think I'll enjoy? Sure!
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
It is thrown together - I can't remember the exact quote but it's something like 'it's that last 10% that takes 90% of the time' and that's so true. STO is so starved of new end-game content that the Devs have been throwing stuff together and time-gating it to stop us blasting through it and to give them additional time to actually finish it (i.e. the Rom flamethrower).
The team seems to have more artists on it now (Season 7 is basically just a huge wad of art assets) but there's no gameplay - no challenges, and no storytelling on the level of things like the Featured Episodes - it's just a big space and ground theme park where once you've seen it, you've got no real reason to go back there.
The subscriptions and Lifetime subs are an aberration that should've gone away when STO went F2P - as long as people are laying out large amounts of money or paying reoccurring subscription fees, they're going to expect to get value and loyalty for that investment. But lets not kid ourselves, that money is a drop in the bucket in comparison to what Cryptic's made from lockboxes - they don't care any more for their subscribers than they do the people who genuinely play the game for free - and they want the same thing from both camps - for you to buy the latest shiny from the C-Store or lots of lockbox keys.
They do show passion for the game and its players, just not in ways that would make STO a better, more polished game - the big tickets - PvP, KDF, Featured Episodes and fixing all those long standing bugs won't make them any money - at least that seems to be how they see it. It's been said before though that the Devs have any number of 'off-the-books' projects that they work on in their spare time and I suspect there's a lot more of that going on than any of us know, so every time they do something right by their players I think that's a sign that they're trying - it's just that the goal of STO is no longer to be an immersive, thoughtful and intelligent science fiction MMO - it's simply to make as much money from Star Trek fans as possible before the servers are finally switched off.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Yep - if I was starting a new character tomorrow I'd use (at most) the Aegis set until I unlocked Tier 5. The Borg set is kind of irrelevant now (except for those that really like the procs and/or the visuals *shudder*)
I had to use the Jem Hadar set on one of my KDFs who missed the time it took to get there.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Shortly before S7 I was farming STF all day, but this new system pretty much killed my interest.
New Romulus bores me and the other content quickly got old as well, only the winter event kept me logging on for the past few weeks, but even that is done now that I got the jackets and Breen ships.
I have motivation now to play Foundry missions beyond "It beats rolling a new toon and doing those Klingon Front missions again." And taking my shiney new Zstore toys out for a drive has motivated me to find reasons to do so.
Then again, I don't feel lazy entitlement in regards to the game so if the season had just been more fleet TRIBBLE I would have continued to see how long it takes to reach level cap just doing doff missions and not caring much.
It's about two to three months depending on the doff quality.
I have adapted and still fly around and shoot things so it no longer really matters.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Got It! It seems even if your fill or surpass the Reputation to complete a tier you must run a couple of those throw away Omega/Romie marks mission for Dilithium before it gives the option to run the "Choose Passive" mission.
This I did not know.
R.I.P
Welcome to the new paradigm. Everyone gets to be a hero, and you don't need to accomplish anything, just put time in.
Time is important. Time means subscription, but it also means time buys you anything you want. The old ways only rewarded good players. The new way lets you get the biggest cruiser in the universe and have no idea how to use it despite the lengthy grind that got you onto its bridge.
I hate the new paradigm. Its for lazy people to zone out in. I love the idea of there being content I can't get at if I tried but seeing some godly incarnation of gaming dedication just standing in the bank showing it off.
The new ways seem to desperately try and convince you that the old addage is no longer true: "No matter what, there will always be someone better than you".
I miss those days. I miss the 90s. We had real guts.
I'm reminded of the line from The Incredibles:
Helen: "Everyone's special, Dash."
Dash: "That's the same as saying no one is."
You're deluding yourself. We aren't talking "passion" at all, this is greed of the dishonest variety.
No - I've worked in the games industry for a long time and I've managed teams of creatives (and worked as a games artist myself) - the team - the artists, programmers, systems people, QA, designers, producers etc. - love what they do, it's just that the goal is no longer to produce an MMO that does justice to the IP and make its fans happy.
It's to wring every last drop of cash out of us before PWE closes STO and/or Cryptic down.
I hate to say it, but that may be where we are headed. I can't think of another justification for the P2W nature the game has taken.
On 'passion'; some of them might, but I still stand by my original statement that if the majority DID have passion for what they do or gave a **** the game wouldn't have so many 'holes' in it, and there would be some real QA happening which there isn't.
I've worked in the Industry too, and it royally sucks when you're one of the few that really does care about what you are doing and it seems like not many others around you do....it saps your drive and motivation. Maybe a few bad apples are ruining the bunch....we may never know, and can only speculate as the the state Cryptic's offices are in these days. The common ground I think we have here is that we all wish it would improve.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Star Citizen is the future. The mastermind of Wing Commander asks the internet and receives $6+ million to develop what may become THE modern masterpiece of space sci fi and he can do it without any suits, any executives and run it purely from a creative perspective, because the investors aren't greedy SOBs who don't have any connection to what they fund, but are gamers themselves, the ones who enjoy the end product will be the ones who funded it.
Its a beautiful idea. Crowdfunding I believe will bring a new renaissance to gaming because it'll allow the indie developer the ability to compete with the big box budget while maintaining the purity of a small creative house.
Some people say that Free to Play is the future, and some say that means that Pay to Win is the future. I say thats not the future, thats the desperate strategy of a failing model. EA is so wasteful compared to the guy developing Star Citizen. All that advertizing to get people to buy something when Star Citizen gets you to pay them to build it before you even move a single unit, and in so doing you invest in the kind of game you want, rather than pay endless DLC prices for a title thats kinda sorta maybe gonna be what you want and ultimately becomes the compromize you play to distract you until the next disappointment comes along.
I think the internet can change the way we do business and its possible that indie games won't be limited to the quaint and adorable 8-bit retro movement.
Exciting times gentlemen.
Money matters.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?