Perhaps, 'The Weak' is how the Undine refered to the Borg... I agree with the above assessment, that once they'd trashed the Borg, they would most likely have returned to fluidic space.
Then why send a cryptic warning to Kes? Why threaten to destroy Voyager? The Undine must have known they weren't Borg.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Then why send a cryptic warning to Kes? Why threaten to destroy Voyager? The Undine must have known they weren't Borg.
Was it definitely a message to Kes, or did she just pick up on their 'ship to ship' communications?
Of course, from a plot point of view, they had to be seen as a credible threat, or indeed, the crew could have allied with them to defeat the Borg, but that wasn't the way the producers wanted the plot to go...
"Hello voyager , we detect that you are weak against the infestation known as the borg , against such strength the weak shall perish , please allow us to dock so that we may open first contact and treat your wounded crewman who we regretable harmed"
but due to her dizzy blonde brain and being only a kid
she only got the bits in red ??
She could've either worn Kes' handmedowns, or other suitable civilian attire, rather than the catsuit...
That is just blasphemous!
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Seven should have been blown out an airlock and phasered into molecules
Borg is Borg
as to a deal with the devil
"remodulate the deflector array and collapse fluidic space around the borg ships "
thus killing BOTH races
its what The real captains would have done (well actually picard would have negotiated a three way peace over tea and cake )
Luckily Riker et al. disagreed with that assertion over rescuing Picard, who was brought back to the human species and went on to save the Federation and the time continuum. I guess they shouldn't have bothered, or better yet, still gone through with the rescue, but airlocked him Laura Roslin->Leoben Conoy/Number Two style...
I agree, then again Seven was no longer Borg as she had her Humanity returned to her, albeit slightly augmented out of necessity, just like people with pacemakers, cochlear implants and artificial hips.
"Hello voyager , we detect that you are weak against the infestation known as the borg , against such strength the weak shall perish , please allow us to dock so that we may open first contact and treat your wounded crewman who we regretable harmed"
but due to her dizzy blonde brain and being only a kid
she only got the bits in red ??
Then why send a cryptic warning to Kes? Why threaten to destroy Voyager? The Undine must have known they weren't Borg.
Why did they send a warning? The Undine were lost, confused, and under attack by species they didn't know existed, from a universe they didn't know existed.
If we as humanity came under attack from interdimensional cyborgs intent on removing our free will, tell me, in all your experience with humanity, particularly America, would we not respond with as many nukes as possible?
Actually the USA would respond first with "do you know who you are messing WITH??"
Then they would send in Chuck norris, Arnie and Danny De vito to kick the aliens behind
They were telling Kes what was up, not giving her a warning. Like a thug on the street saying, "I'm gonna light you up sucka!"
While I enjoyed the story, Janeway should've left the cube in fluidic space, then after the Undine finished the cube off, fired some assimilation torps to show the Undine to stay put.
After all later down the road the Undine agreed to a cease fire with Janeway, so they are in no way as evil as the Borg.
its an unstable polydimension (ergo it can be destroyed much as subspace can be)
Says who? All we know about it is that it's a parallel universe filled with organic fluid instead of vacuum. And that its laws of physics appear to be similar to our own.
And if Voyager somehow did manage to collapse it, that would be genocide. Janeway, crazy as she might be, doesn't like genocide.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Collapse the nexus point
basically close the soap bubble
That makes much more sense.
If it were that easy, I'm sure Janeway would have done it. The trouble is, the Undine are capable of opening the portals themselves. So it wouldn't really be a true fix.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
That's my point exactly. It doesn't matter whether the Borg are alive or not, it doesn't matter what rights they have, they're a menace that only seeks to consume and destroy. That in and of itself necessitates their destruction.
You are missing the bigger moral dilemma that Picard eventually saw regard Hugh which he himself (and Seven of Nine) embodies. Yes the Borg are a menace. But each drone disconnected from the Collective is an individual. Condemning the entirity of the Collective into oblivion means the destruction of trillion of innocent individuals as well.
Comments
Then why send a cryptic warning to Kes? Why threaten to destroy Voyager? The Undine must have known they weren't Borg.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Was it definitely a message to Kes, or did she just pick up on their 'ship to ship' communications?
Of course, from a plot point of view, they had to be seen as a credible threat, or indeed, the crew could have allied with them to defeat the Borg, but that wasn't the way the producers wanted the plot to go...
Kes intercepts the communication
"Hello voyager , we detect that you are weak against the infestation known as the borg , against such strength the weak shall perish , please allow us to dock so that we may open first contact and treat your wounded crewman who we regretable harmed"
but due to her dizzy blonde brain and being only a kid
she only got the bits in red ??
That is just blasphemous!
Luckily Riker et al. disagreed with that assertion over rescuing Picard, who was brought back to the human species and went on to save the Federation and the time continuum. I guess they shouldn't have bothered, or better yet, still gone through with the rescue, but airlocked him Laura Roslin->Leoben Conoy/Number Two style...
I agree, then again Seven was no longer Borg as she had her Humanity returned to her, albeit slightly augmented out of necessity, just like people with pacemakers, cochlear implants and artificial hips.
look how many times she betrayed or endangered the crew
Considered...
What was the message she intercepted?
but she almost definately got it wrong
imagine a small child taking a phone message
Why did they send a warning? The Undine were lost, confused, and under attack by species they didn't know existed, from a universe they didn't know existed.
If we as humanity came under attack from interdimensional cyborgs intent on removing our free will, tell me, in all your experience with humanity, particularly America, would we not respond with as many nukes as possible?
Then they would send in Chuck norris, Arnie and Danny De vito to kick the aliens behind
And when THAT failed they would use the nukes
While I enjoyed the story, Janeway should've left the cube in fluidic space, then after the Undine finished the cube off, fired some assimilation torps to show the Undine to stay put.
After all later down the road the Undine agreed to a cease fire with Janeway, so they are in no way as evil as the Borg.
*Simplez ... squeak*
I hope STO get's better ...
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Says who? All we know about it is that it's a parallel universe filled with organic fluid instead of vacuum. And that its laws of physics appear to be similar to our own.
And if Voyager somehow did manage to collapse it, that would be genocide. Janeway, crazy as she might be, doesn't like genocide.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
but as all subverses are bounded and unstable
you could collapse it
Who says it's a subverse? It may have similar laws of physics, but so did the mirror universe and all those parallel universes we saw in "Parallels".
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
but a fluid filled space MUST be bounded (otherwise the fluid would disipate )
but then the physics of voyager are insane anyway
My character Tsin'xing
that means its part of real space and there is cross flow
By that logic, so can ours.
In our universe, yes. Who knows, maybe things are different there.
Then again, maybe it does have some kind of border around it. Maybe their universe is finite in size. Anything's possible.
But again, even if it could be collapsed, that would wipe out the Undine. That's genocide, which is frowned upon by most civilized cultures.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
No not collapse the whole of fluidic space
Collapse the nexus point
basically close the soap bubble
That makes much more sense.
If it were that easy, I'm sure Janeway would have done it. The trouble is, the Undine are capable of opening the portals themselves. So it wouldn't really be a true fix.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Or they could just improve their portal technology.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
That lady makes Ripley look positively harmless
I approve of this approach.
You are missing the bigger moral dilemma that Picard eventually saw regard Hugh which he himself (and Seven of Nine) embodies. Yes the Borg are a menace. But each drone disconnected from the Collective is an individual. Condemning the entirity of the Collective into oblivion means the destruction of trillion of innocent individuals as well.