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cryptic, please... finish your work before you release it

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  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sumghai wrote: »
    darius, are you typing from an iPad or mobile device? The wall-o-text and the capitalizing of nearly every word make your responses difficult to read.

    Nexus 7 :/ Hell I am amazed what I was able to do.. that Wall of Text and all the Copying Is a Pain in the Rear. Especially since Firefox is having issues where Backspace is concerned.. it wipes the entire Paragraph and Dolphin Since it's last update Crashes Constantly. So I am stuck working with Chrome. which Normally I love on Desktop.
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
    Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    So in typical craptic fashion, as if some higher power is slamming you with proof that these guys don't have the least bit of interest in putting quality into their work, the t4 romulan reputation plasma torpedo isn't the one that its supposed to be. Its almost as if they put in a generic place holder for the actual torpedo launcher. Hmmm... unfinished, broken? either of these descriptions are appropriate.

    Guys, wth are you doing? I think we deserve some answers here. There is no justification for this level of TRIBBLE up. Seriously.. bring in some consultants to help you get organized, or hire some people that have drive and dedication to get the job done right.
  • jim940jim940 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    People here are getting to the point where they expect new content every month, and soon it will be every Thursday patch.

    Eventually, with all the bits and pieces that the developers are putting into the game, which really, since the game went F2P has increased more then the previous time before they launched and F2P happened.

    A few maps to make a new featured series of episodes isn't as much work as outright modifying big parts of the engine to add reputation that people here on the forums wanted, expanding the fleets etc.

    So if they keep giving us a bone, and patching it to make it better a week or two later, who cares, at least we get new content.

    My Steam ticker is at 400 hours for this game, verses the 12 hours it took me to beat Call of Duty Black Ops 2, and that game will never get any expansions like STO does. I am pretty sure it took me ~60 hours just to get to level 50 in the first place.

    Jim
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Not sure how many mmo's you have been in, but for going on its 3rd year for a game that got dropped on there lap and being converted onto there engine slowly, they are not doing bad. Hell look at games with much larger studios and financial back where they are.. TOR barely could hold subs due to its issues they didnt even make a year before plunging F2P with one of the worst micro markets i have ever seen.

    Better yet..have you seen Diablo 3 put out by mega developer BLIZZARD and all its issues and it literallyhas parts that did not make it to release yet. Heavy nerfing done to items in games and the destruction of what made Diablio 2 last so long with the now big push to aid casuals and blow off the elitist niche market the game series had.

    STO for its age is doing pretty good. Not the best, but still above the grade. Most games do not start becoming strong until the 5th year. Hell eve online is on its 18th expansion since 2003 and only the last few expansions has it been fixing issues from 2003 to now.

    i expect more for an mmo being open for three years.. rift is kicking this games but as far as customer support, content releases, and general playability.. even though tor had to go f2p sooner than anyone would have thought, it is still twice the game this game is, there is more content in the release of tor, than there is in the combined three years of sto...

    also, blizzard as you knew it did not put diablo 3 out, nor are they running wow as of now.. they sold out (to whom i cant remember, but they are no longer developing the game). blizzard is alive in name only now.. still, diablo 3 is rouphly equal at launch, to the amount of content sto currently has over three years...

    ive said it before, sto needs an expansion. something to reinvent the wheel and *double the content.. sto needs this wow factor...
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    puttenham wrote: »
    i expect more for an mmo being open for three years
    You're expecting high standards from an MMO that doesn't have the same numbers as Rift?

    I'm just saying, Cryptic's team was (and still is) smaller than most MMO teams, and they're doing the best they can currently, whatever people's opinions of the results. Give them a small break here
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    trek21 wrote: »
    You're expecting high standards from an MMO that doesn't have the same numbers as Rift?

    I'm just saying, Cryptic's team was (and still is) smaller than most MMO teams, and they're doing the best they can currently, whatever people's opinions of the results. Give them a small break here

    sorry, but they've had a break for 3 years. time to get around to doing some actual real work.
  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    puttenham wrote: »
    i expect more for an mmo being open for three years.. rift is kicking this games but as far as customer support, content releases, and general playability.. even though tor had to go f2p sooner than anyone would have thought, it is still twice the game this game is, there is more content in the release of tor, than there is in the combined three years of sto...

    also, blizzard as you knew it did not put diablo 3 out, nor are they running wow as of now.. they sold out (to whom i cant remember, but they are no longer developing the game). blizzard is alive in name only now.. still, diablo 3 is rouphly equal at launch, to the amount of content sto currently has over three years...

    ive said it before, sto needs an expansion. something to reinvent the wheel and *double the content.. sto needs this wow factor...

    I Believe It was Activision That Bought Blizzard. But Even with the Ownership Change It is still the Same Development Studio Name Pushing it.
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2012
    Activision bought, and owns, and operates Blizzard. But Blizzard is still the development studio for Diablo, WoW, Titan, etc.

    Fun Facts Time! Back at the end of February this year, Blizzard laid off 600 employees.
    Almost none of those employees were developers. That was nearly all from support teams, HR, QA, Marketing, etc.

    Cryptic, in total, currently has less than 1/4 of the # of people they laid off.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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  • hanoverhanover Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Cryptic, in total, currently has less than 1/4 of the # of people they laid off.

    It appears you have identified the problem in need of attention.
    Does Arc install a root kit? Ask a Dev today!
  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Activision bought, and owns, and operates Blizzard. But Blizzard is still the development studio for Diablo, WoW, Titan, etc.

    Fun Facts Time! Back at the end of February this year, Blizzard laid off 600 employees.
    Almost none of those employees were developers. That was nearly all from support teams, HR, QA, Marketing, etc.

    Cryptic, in total, currently has less than 1/4 of the # of people they laid off.

    And you Do an Awesome Job Taco.. mmmm Tacos *eyes him while Grabbing the hot sauce*
    hanover2 wrote: »
    It appears you have identified the problem in need of attention.

    Takes Cash to Own Larger Teams.. Blizzard could of never pulled off the MMO with there Original small team back in the day.. They have had multiple Successful Games that have Raked in TRIBBLE Loads of Cash over the years before they could Grab the Team to Make WOW. The Only Way Wow Remained in Success is the Beginning Was from the Loyal Fan Base. Same as STO it's From a Loyal Fan Base. STO keeps Expanding and more people Join sure, It has a turn over.. All MMO's DO. But It Keeps Getting Better. Stop Expecting Instant Results Look at ALL MMO's Look at there Bug Forums.. Every MMO PLayer Says on the Forum.. The Game sucks. Then you have the Ones That Defend it and pay attention to what is going on. I do not Take a Biased Look. I take an Unemotional look at the facts and what was stated to be in the game at time of purchase to what we have now.
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
    Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Cryptic doesn't need shear employee numbers, they need company discipline. We don't know if they are willingly ignorant in advancing it, or are being directed to get stuff out on timelines just not possible.

    Over time we have seen that one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, the patches are buggy with fixes to broken one area completely TRIBBLE up other broken areas making things unplayable, they are not tested properly. General decision making and game direction is a mess, the back tracking causes very inefficient use of the labour that exists. And from dev comments we have learned that their tools and ability to manipulate fairly trivial things is all manual, causing even more labour to fix or change systems as they advance.
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  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    darimund wrote: »
    sorry, but they've had a break for 3 years. time to get around to doing some actual real work.
    Real work by your standards? I don't think that's humanly possible :P Your entire opinion on this matter reeks of unrealistic to me, personally
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    trek21 wrote: »
    Real work by your standards? I don't think that's humanly possible :P Your entire opinion on this matter reeks of unrealistic to me, personally

    so its unrealistic to expect craptic to be able to solve the problem that they create with their patches? its unrealistic for craptic to start a development project and actually complete it? Have you even read anything that anyone has had to say on this matter? your entire opinion of my opinion wreaks of ignorance.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    darimund wrote: »
    so its unrealistic to expect craptic to be able to solve the problem that they create with their patches? its unrealistic for craptic to start a development project and actually complete it? Have you even read anything that anyone has had to say on this matter? your entire opinion of my opinion wreaks of ignorance.
    If you know my reputation, you know I'm well versed on what Cryptic goes through ;) And I have an opinion that isn't tainted by anger/being ripped off.

    Cryptic has a small staff, and they do what they can, plus I do not think many of their actions are questionible. Though that last part is just my own opinion, as I'm very flexible in that area :D

    And I'm perfectly fine with Cryptic not being able to solve their own problems, or finish what they started ;)
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • sirsrisirsri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    hanover2 wrote: »
    It appears you have identified the problem in need of attention.

    Hiring 600 people wouldn't necessarily do the game any favours, and certainly not developers. You need have good direction of the people you do hire, and you need to not have them all stepping on other people's toes. If you had 150 people all making ships in STO you'd have way more ships than would be sensible.

    Cryptic needs a better lead systems designer and a better producer (or the ones they have need to improve their skills with the technology they have), and they need a better way of converting the feedback they get (especially on tribble) into actions they take before releasing content. When you look at S7, the problem wasn't lack of people, the problem was bad design, the dilithium numbers, drop rates, dilithium for marks conversion, etc. Those were all numbers that were just chosen wrong.

    If you're going to make content, you need to make content players can (and will) actually do. Right now content is competing with the holiday event for time, so having more new S7 content is unlikely to have helped. And ground content in general, and space itemization (and the ability to macro everything to spacebar) need to be looked at before content.


    Don't get me wrong, they could probably use *some* new staff. The UI issues, the exchange, the entire game physics probably warrant full time positions. But they'd be far better off making better decisions, and therefore a better game, than making more stuff in the same basic game.
  • jim940jim940 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sirsri wrote: »
    When you look at S7, the problem wasn't lack of people, the problem was bad design, the dilithium numbers, drop rates, dilithium for marks conversion, etc. Those were all numbers that were just chosen wrong.

    No matter what they set those numbers to, people would have complained the same.

    Jim
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    jim940 wrote: »
    No matter what they set those numbers to, people would have complained the same.

    Jim

    I'm fairly certain that if Cryptic hadn't tried to completely underhandedly remove dilithium payouts from some of the most-run content in the game, folks wouldn't have completely lost it.
  • starcommando101starcommando101 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Some people like their work (me) and some don't like it. But what you fail to realize sir is... You can quit the game any time and go cosplay with your friends and become the next ST captain...

    No? Harassing people won't get TRIBBLE done.
    The Average PvP player
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    1) Teamwork and timing is #1
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  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I'm fairly certain that if Cryptic hadn't tried to completely underhandedly remove dilithium payouts from some of the most-run content in the game, folks wouldn't have completely lost it.

    I am Pretty Sure.. the player base Likes to whine and Complain about Everything out there. Look at it's Base. We have like Star Wars.. The Largest Canon/nerd base of Games Besides Eve Online. The Forums Are going to be Filled with people Complaining about how actions are Done Because Everyone seems to be a Lone Warrior Designer who knows how to do it right but somehow Can't get employed by anyone. It's Rare to find the players who Actually are working on Creating or finding a way to solve the problems that will be acceptable by EVERYONE not just themselves. Small Fleet Vs Large Fleet Issues, Solo Players Who Want the Shinies Given to the people who want to be among Groups to earn it. Players who Just want to do quick dailies and Sit on Drozana Cybering All day( Yes a few of you Actually Role Play.. But lets be Honest.. Most Are Trying to get Virtually Laid because you are unable to get it physically done... Not that I am in a better boat mind you)

    No casual player In todays world of MMO's Wants to Actually EARN something. They want it handed to them Now. The Days of Actually Playing a Game to Earn Rewards, Specialized Items, rare equipment are gone. This is Easily showable By Microtransaction Sales in every Game out there. Instead of Earning Cash, You can goto a Gold Seller Site and Buy it. Instead of Earning that Ship.. You can go out there a buy It. Instead of having to Wait for a cool down in a game or a project to finish, You can Spend Cash on it to Finish it. Instead of Playing the Missions that give you Fleet Marks, Romulan Marks, Omega Marks, Dilithium. They want and Crave a One click mission that will Give them it.

    When the Player base Wonders why The Developers of todays games and it's Certaintly not Just Cryptic.. Add more Cash sinks into the Games, It's because the Majority of the player Base Request and Push Cash sinks in the Game. Sure they could release more episodes and increase the story Line. But why? If the Klingon Side shows to be a Sink hole for them.. why push it. If the Federation Players today Just Hit the Mirror Event up to Level Quickly.. why Develop More Story for the Game. If they are Skipping the story now, complaining about First Time run Cut Scenes that Expand upon everything going on and give you the story in a cool way. Why should they Do More.

    The PC Game Market is becoming the Console Game Market. Quick Stages and "DLC" or in our Case "Item Malls". The Ala Carte Method Of gaming is here to stay. This is shown by the powerhouse Developers That put it to Success. Zynga has shown This, Facebook Games, iOS games, Android Games, and now the windows App Market has shown the profitability of the " Pay for what you want" vs the " Pay for the game" attitude.

    Perfect Example.. Winter Event.. the Hop down the Hill and Get the Epohh Tags. EVERYONE calls it a Cheat or an Exploit.. It is I won't argue that. But the Majority of Zone chat Complains that it is not and states " If you want to actually do the race do the race, If you just want the tags.. Take the short cut.. there is nothing Wrong here" This is the Majority sadly Of our player base. Why should They Patch Missions, Or patch Content If it is not game breaking that the Majority Base Complain About.

    It's the Majority Sadly.. that Pay for the Game, Not the Minority. Games Are no Longer built towards Niche players who want to see it all working Fine. They are built towards the Mass Players who Don't care and Throw money regardless of how bad it could Get. In the End It is a Player Issue Not a Developer Issue. Game Developers Create Games to Make Cash to buy the toys they want. Not Create Games to Just Be Broke and remain in there parents Basement.

    ________
    Meh Still wall of text, and I see my Capital Letter issue lol. But its broken better down for ya.. and I guess the capital letters is just my style of writing :P If CEO's can write all lower case letter run on sentances to there employee's then this is my style lol
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    blah blah blah

    I can't believe you're going to sit there and blame the players for craptic not taking the time to get their code working properly or to complete a project before shoving it down our throats. You really need to stop.
  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    darimund wrote: »
    I can't believe you're going to sit there and blame the players for craptic not taking the time to get their code working properly or to complete a project before shoving it down our throats. You really need to stop.

    Why not, The players are STILL PLAYING. They Threaten to Quit, But then Come back Every Expansion. Show me Where the DEV Fears the player leaving?
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
    Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    well gee, overlord stahl back peddling and putting dilithium rewards back into the game... just off the top of my head.
  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    darimund wrote: »
    well gee, overlord stahl back peddling and putting dilithium rewards back into the game... just off the top of my head.

    Again the MAJORITY spoke Up. Was not done because of the Minority Complaints..
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
    Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Again the MAJORITY spoke Up. Was not done because of the Minority Complaints..

    Infuriating effectively the entirety of the playerbase by flat out lying to them has a tendency to unite folks just a smidge.
  • tachyonharmonictachyonharmonic Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Let's not forget half the reason for the Season 7 changes was an attempt to fix the previous system.

    Also, I hope none of you have been upping the reputations too fast. The later tiers aren't actually finished yet. That Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher that is supposedly part of the Romulan console set? It doesn't exist. Instead you can pay 500 marks for a rapid-fire plasma placeholder item. The Omega Torpedo Launcher? Buggy of course. The Mountain Pass cutscene mission? You have to magically guess that it has to be done while in another mission that they don't mention.
  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Infuriating effectively the entirety of the playerbase by flat out lying to them has a tendency to unite folks just a smidge.

    Correct But Again, Only Fixed Because the majority Spoke Up.
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
    Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
    [SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
  • darimunddarimund Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    hey, you asked for an example and I gave you one. don't delude yourself into thinking that pwe and/or craptic is okay with their players quitting over their TRIBBLE ups. we're their life blood and we have the power to kill this game. The reason I haven't quit, yet, aside for the afore mentioned reason that I intend on getting my monies worth out of this life time sub I stupidly signed up for, is that i'm here for star trek, not craptic or pwe. That's the only thing keeping me here and a whole mess of other people.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Activision bought, and owns, and operates Blizzard. But Blizzard is still the development studio for Diablo, WoW, Titan, etc.

    Fun Facts Time! Back at the end of February this year, Blizzard laid off 600 employees.
    Almost none of those employees were developers. That was nearly all from support teams, HR, QA, Marketing, etc.

    Cryptic, in total, currently has less than 1/4 of the # of people they laid off.

    LOL yeah always great business to cut off the arms and legs of a company :)
  • phantomeightphantomeight Member Posts: 567 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2012
    Correct But Again, Only Fixed Because the majority Spoke Up.

    I highly doubt that they give a flying fudge what people say on the forums. They looked at the shard and saw everyone running SB24 over and over instead of STFs because it gave out ~1000 DL at the time, two purps if you won it which is easy because of the dopes around here, and the cool down was half the time of an STF......

    Its signal to noise ratio and this thread and all the others is all noise.
    join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
  • dariusmajeredariusmajere Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    darimund wrote: »
    hey, you asked for an example and I gave you one. don't delude yourself into thinking that pwe and/or craptic is okay with their players quitting over their TRIBBLE ups. we're their life blood and we have the power to kill this game. The reason I haven't quit, yet, aside for the afore mentioned reason that I intend on getting my monies worth out of this life time sub I stupidly signed up for, is that i'm here for star trek, not craptic or pwe. That's the only thing keeping me here and a whole mess of other people.

    And that Is the Reason Cryptic Can Continue It's Ways. Subscriber Numbers Are the Life of a Game. The More connections it shows, The more it Can Sell It's Game. If the Majority of the players Are not complaining and they can Track this VIA accounts On the Forums, and on Dev Posts. They are doing Fine and Can go at the pace that is best for them. Everyday a BitterVet Logs on, They still show Positive Log On Numbers. The More your Own, the more chances you have Getting Dilithium, Converting Dil for Zen ( player sold again). Positive Numbers Show Numbers that can produce Profit. If you are Lifetime and You stay in game Till you decided it was time you made your money, They still Made the sale. That is the HARSH Reality. If you Stay to the date you decide the 15.99 got paid for Via lifetime thats 18 months At full cost Purchase Or just over a year If on sale. This is plenty of time for you To Buy/Zen Sell or see something interested in the Store. You are Still A positive Number on there login Site. Gives them the Ability to Advertise There upcoming Games EAsily.. theres Never winter and a yet to be named one coming out. Positive Log On numbers Sell.

    I am not saying you do not have a right to complain. But I am saying In the emotional Way you do so is counter-productive.
    Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
    Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
    Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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