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getting these task force gear is still unfair

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  • lancemeszaroslancemeszaros Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    My only problem with the switch is that I had full sets of MACO and Omega Tier XI, space and ground, and now I have to start from scratch and build up to tier 3 rep just to get back to where I was to begin with. We have accolades for how much we've done in STFs and Cryptic should've given rep based on those instead of starting everyone at 0.

    Other than that, I honestly think this is a great improvement over the old system.
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    My only problem with the switch is that I had full sets of MACO and Omega Tier XI, space and ground, and now I have to start from scratch and build up to tier 3 rep just to get back to where I was to begin with. We have accolades for how much we've done in STFs and Cryptic should've given rep based on those instead of starting everyone at 0.

    Other than that, I honestly think this is a great improvement over the old system.

    Something funny is that branflakes said that they would take accolades and such into account with the rep system, and in an interview actually said that they would give bonuses for accolades and the like. And guess what, nothing.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    duaths1 wrote: »
    /this

    elite should be purely optional. reward would be only a title, perhaps a costume at 100 runs..

    You see that was pre s7 and people wanted the elite stuffs so they made the communist system in which even new players can get the mk XII (which has ~+1 compared to mk XI) and the elite costume ,thus making playing elite stfs not worth playing.Everyone will have the same s*** now.
  • bublawekbublawek Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The updated rewards at the end of the stf's make them compltetely worthwhile. I even like The big dig and Breaking the planet again! Having to work to get the elite gears make me want to play the game. and by the time we get the stuff there should be new content.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    bublawek wrote: »
    The updated rewards at the end of the stf's make them compltetely worthwhile. I even like The big dig and Breaking the planet again! Having to work to get the elite gears make me want to play the game. and by the time we get the stuff there should be new content.

    So why should you get the elite stuffs again if you dont like nor want to play the elite stfs?If you like breaking the planet you should get a mk XII elite broken planet gear or something for what you like to play ,why should you have Elite borg sets when you dont like to play those missions?Why mk XII and not mk XI which are -1 on stats but you will never need more than that because like you said you dont play borg stfs.

    Why is worthwhile for me ?I have all mk XII sets on 4 toons and boffs.Please tell me why or what should I insert stuffs into a sink every 20 hours.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    adrianm63 wrote: »
    Why is worthwhile for me ?I have all mk XII sets on 4 toons and boffs.Please tell me why or what should I insert stuffs into a sink every 20 hours.

    There is the Cutting Beam Array, Omega Torpedo Launcher, Assimilated Mk XII space set, and the Adapted Ground set to go for as well as the extra passive powers and Tier 5 power. If those don't interest you, then there is no point.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Normal should give a higher reward than elite
    Simply to keep people OUT of elite
    duaths1 wrote: »
    /this

    elite should be purely optional. reward would be only a title, perhaps a costume at 100 runs..

    I thought this was what the ISE was for. An easy elite STF that keeps noobs away from the more challenging STFs so they don't ruin the STF.
  • nodia2055nodia2055 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    they would start the marks dropping in the red alerts at around lvl 35, it just drops junk gear now. By the time you hit 50 you would have a little pile to start with and it wouldn't seem so overwhelming
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    There is the Cutting Beam Array, Omega Torpedo Launcher, Assimilated Mk XII space set, and the Adapted Ground set to go for as well as the extra passive powers and Tier 5 power. If those don't interest you, then there is no point.

    Again I ask why should I wait 20 hours ?
    STO last time I checked was in the games category not waiting room.

    Why should every person who plays few stfs or none (defera gives marks) have elite sets and borg stuffs?

    Is there any reason to want to find better builds or strategies for Elite pve ?

    Are those things at tier 5 worth waiting (yes waiting ,not playing) 2 months ?
  • lancemeszaroslancemeszaros Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    adrianm63 wrote: »
    Why should every person who plays few stfs or none (defera gives marks) have elite sets and borg stuffs?

    Why should STFs be the only thing that matters? Ever hear of variety?
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Why should STFs be the only thing that matters? Ever hear of variety?

    The problem is that the only decent ground sets are from the STFs. The Jem'Hadar ground set seems to have only a new weapon model. It should have a unique armor look. There is no Romulan ground sets, but two space sets at tier 5 and we only know the stats and look of the Reman set so the Romulan set is a complete mystery.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Why should STFs be the only thing that matters? Ever hear of variety?

    So now you see borgs in romulan missions?
    You clearly never played the main storyline to see whats omega all about.
    starkaos wrote: »
    The problem is that the only decent ground sets are from the STFs. The Jem'Hadar ground set seems to have only a new weapon model. It should have a unique armor look. There is no Romulan ground sets, but two space sets at tier 5 and we only know the stats and look of the Reman set so the Romulan set is a complete mystery.


    Make those romulan sets hard to get.I want hard to get stfs sets and those who play romulan missions alot should have elite romulan sets.Why should everyone get the most elite stuffs in game easy (if 2 months of waiting can be called easy)
  • rgrgeomrgrgeom Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    i like the new rep system. yes its a grind but at least you have a set outcome and goal rather than blind luck. I think its almost the human condition to think that something thats luck based and might happen any moment seems to be the faster and better way than something based around a set outcome. People think i could get it this next time where as the new rep system means the harsh realities are there. they know they will have to do soo many missions and it just seems like more work where as the luck factor almost seems more optimistic and maybe a little naive mixed with a lot of hope. As for keeping the elite stuff for a small majority, i would disagree considering personally i think its the best looking stuff. i might tend to disagree if the regular armour didnt look like utter TRIBBLE and the kits just look stupid. Seriously all the ground stuff just looks terrible especially at the higher tiers. I love the low tier stuff. looks soo much better especially the weapons.
    Long Live The Empire!
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rgrgeom wrote: »
    i like the new rep system. yes its a grind but at least you have a set outcome and goal rather than blind luck. I think its almost the human condition to think that something thats luck based and might happen any moment seems to be the faster and better way than something based around a set outcome.

    60edc = mk X
    120 edc =mk XI

    cant see where was the luck needed in that :confused:

    mk XII was for those who played alot.You dont want to play alot then why should you have the mk XII and extra costume parts?
  • rgrgeomrgrgeom Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Meant the mk XII stuff more

    i think better and more diverse weapon, kit and armour models would seriously help to differentiate between everyone instead of everyone just using the same stuff ie maco or omega. Which isnt too hard to do.

    steps
    1. take of stupid holo TRIBBLE of all weapons!
    2. use low tier kits as basis for new models (ie a battle belt style look is much better than the crazy contraption covering my guy)
    3. At very least change all the colours of the armour because it just looks ridiculous. dark colours or military like patterns. im sick and tired of seeing bright yellow or red onesies
    4. More unique item models ie reman, jem hadar, romulan etc
    Long Live The Empire!
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    rgrgeom wrote: »
    Meant the mk XII stuff more

    i think better and more diverse weapon, kit and armour models would seriously help to differentiate between everyone instead of everyone just using the same stuff ie maco or omega. Which isnt too hard to do.

    steps
    1. take of stupid holo TRIBBLE of all weapons!
    2. use low tier kits as basis for new models (ie a battle belt style look is much better than the crazy contraption covering my guy)
    3. At very least change all the colours of the armour because it just looks ridiculous. dark colours or military like patterns. im sick and tired of seeing bright yellow or red onesies
    4. More unique item models ie reman, jem hadar, romulan etc

    I suspect this is coming with the crafting system. or atleast if they want to make the new crafting system useful, they should include these

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Frankly I have done all the old Stfs (not since new rep system and changes)
    And I never wore a single item of maco KHG or Omega gear for any of them (and I never had a ground team member complain about my abilities either had one complain he didn't like my HAIRCUT however)
    Maco gear does not make you any better at your job
    it just makes you look a bit like an armoured spacesuit

    MACO or omega gear greatly improves your and team performance, especially in ground combat. SKILL > GEAR, but GEAR + SKILL = EASY WIN.
    OMEGA and MACO offer a nearly obligatory 3 piece set bonus for elite ground stfs. And the 2 piece set bonus is still an asset i wouldn't want to miss.
    So yeah it does make you much better at killing BORG. A full advanced fleet ground gear may be better against non borg, but not for much.
    I would recommand anybody about to do elite ground stfs to get the MKX MACO/KHG/OMEGA set first...the higher MK the better ofcourse, but MK X is sufficent, if it is combined with a MKXII weapon (preferably an advanced or elite fleet weapon).

    i certainly would and do complain about somebody who shows up in an elite ground stf with TOS phasers, most undesirable weapon of all (stun pistol), translates into a green MKXI at lvl 50, and odds are that the rest of the gear is below MKX rares or purples...especially when it comes to the KIT he uses.
    It is unthinkable in any other MMO to show up to a raid with less than endgame gear, why should this be different in STO? If you want to do elite stfs, be prepared, that includes items to repair you and your ship during a stf.
    using a TOS phaser that you get at lvl 1 is not the definition of being prepared for endgame content.


    is ground gear still unfair to get? I don't think unfair at all, you still need to invest a serious amount of time only now you know that, for example, "in 3 days i'll have it"
    you could argue, that before you had no dilithium prices involved, but thats understandable that cryptic implemented it, they are after all a profit oriented company and there are a good bunch of rather impatient people playing this game, who will buy dilithium with ZEN.
    Go pro or go home
  • grievasgrievas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Normally I find criticism useful, but this type of basically "I want my shiny toys RIGHT NOW!" from the OP is just over the top in uselessness. Also no punctuation whatsoever, other forums would lock such threads instantly.


    The new system is fine, especially after they tweaked the rewards. It provides another type of progression after players reach the currently highest level.

    Also as far as I remember the highest Elite reward is still only for those who accomplish all optionals on space and ground elite. So the real elite players are still somewhat singled out and rewarded.

    I don't exactly know what people mean, when saying, they have to regrind for their XI stuff they already had. That stuff is still there and didn't disappear.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    grievas wrote: »
    Also as far as I remember the highest Elite reward is still only for those who accomplish all optionals on space and ground elite. So the real elite players are still somewhat singled out and rewarded.

    To play once and get the optional in any elite stf is called luck and has nothing to do with elite .

    You need 3 good players to complete any stf ,ground or space so theres room for another two who can afk and be "Elite".
  • grievasgrievas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    yes, that's exactly how I planned on doing it. :)


    On another note, before this change non-set engame gear like XI and XII (even purple) stuff were kind of pointless and only a short term solution until players got the XII maco or KHG parts. This was reflected by their worth on the exchange, which understandably was around 50% of their indicated ec worth. This will maybe change in a while as new players will require this gear for a little while (about one week or two) longer.
  • dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Normal should give a higher reward than elite
    Simply to keep people OUT of elite
    duaths1 wrote: »
    /this

    elite should be purely optional. reward would be only a title, perhaps a costume at 100 runs..


    And can you tell me why? If someone can play and win Elite (showing that he have better tactic, skills or simple knew how to correctly play own character) should be properly rewarded for that.

    You simple suggested that janitor should earn more than for example a doctor. Why? Because there are more janitors than qualified doctors?

    If you can't win Elite and earn elite eq it's only your fault. Maybe it's time to rethink your play style and build.
  • r37r37 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    It's not hard to understand what they are after, less noobs in elite. With the current system normal is a complete waste of time, 19 marks with the optional while people are getting at least 80 marks in Elite. With a single elite mission giving out 4/6 times the amount of marks it's quite obvious that normal is no longer a serious way to get gear like it was in the past.

    It's go elite or GTFO when it comes to gear now.


    As far as rewards go, I think people were happy with the old system. Mk X & XI gear was relatively easy to get by running normal's. It might have been faster to gear up through elite's, but the option to gear up with normal's was much more valid then with the new system. Also, keep in mind the Mk XII was impossible to grind out through normal's, so all those people grinding out MK XII were actually getting something that only an elite STF player could acquire.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • recksracerrecksracer Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    They way tou have to accumulate marks AND the wait for a project timer is horrible.

    Could you imagine switching energy types in the new system?


    I'm sure i would prefer turning in 8 proto salvages in a minute to paying a few hundered thousand dil and waiting a week.
  • ericandrewrossericandrewross Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    r37 wrote: »
    It's not hard to understand what they are after, less noobs in elite. With the current system normal is a complete waste of time, 19 marks with the optional while people are getting at least 80 marks in Elite. With a single elite mission giving out 4/6 times the amount of marks it's quite obvious that normal is no longer a serious way to get gear like it was in the past.

    It's go elite or GTFO when it comes to gear now.

    Actually you are incorrect.

    I did a run of KSE the other day, and due to the utter incompetence of a couple of the players it took just shy of 50 minutes for the 3 of us that knew what we were doing to complete the mission, with the option failed, I got 60 Omega Marks, and had to use a bunch of Components, because when noobs are running around chasing single shperes in Vortex those actually trying to complete the mission get killed more often.

    Later the same day I ran all three Space STFs on Normal , completed all three in about 43 minutes, and got all the optional objectives. I made a bit over 70 Omega Marks, a bunch of DI, and got some decent gear as well (made just over 100K EC)... so in less time, I made more Marks, More DI, and more EC... playing in PUGs no less.

    So, unless you have a set group of skilled players in your group... (which in my small fleet it is impossible to get more then 2 people together to STF at the same time) it can actually be easier and faster to earn Marks and DI to play Normal.
    Vice Admiral Ross
    and others too numerous to name...
  • r37r37 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I think you're cherry picking a little too much with that example. A single decent elite STF > 3 normal's easily & frequently. You got lucky with your normal's & unlucky with your elite, it happens, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

    Look, I know where your coming from, and it sucks when it happens, but that doesn't mean normal's are in a good place right now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rgrgeomrgrgeom Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    r37 wrote: »
    I think you're cherry picking a little too much with that example. A single decent elite STF > 3 normal's easily & frequently. You got lucky with your normal's & unlucky with your elite, it happens, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

    Look, I know where your coming from, and it sucks when it happens, but that doesn't mean normal's are in a good place right now.

    true but you can often complete up to 3 regular missions for the time taken to complete one elite not to mention i do normally have fun more on the regular missions. that said i have noticed a trend of seriously terrible players on STF's being either so stupid and not listening to what to do or what can almost be seen as deliberate sabotage. Is stick together really or focus on the one side really such a hard command to follow. The regular stf's and optionals can easily be done in 10 min flat but terrible players are increasing this time and often losing the optional. One player simply going rogue ruins a whole STF. it took half an hour for one save the kang mission because my team was so terrible and badly kitted out.
    Long Live The Empire!
  • vinru821vinru821 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    r37 wrote: »
    I think you're cherry picking a little too much with that example. A single decent elite STF > 3 normal's easily & frequently. You got lucky with your normal's & unlucky with your elite, it happens, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

    Look, I know where your coming from, and it sucks when it happens, but that doesn't mean normal's are in a good place right now.

    Agreed, normals arent worth it as of now, and too many afk'ers and newbies join elites for the marks. And an hour reset time? come on now!.. i finish the 3 elite space and still have a 10-20 min wait to do the first one again.

    I have to say.. I run elite pugs almost exclusively, and only have failed optionals about 10% of the time ...max.

    Hell, had a ISE last night, 4 sci one tac, and we finished with about 7 mins to spare!
    :eek:
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    its fair in the sense that everyone knows what to do.

    there is grinding involved but there was grinding before, and it was totally based on luck. someone people had gone the whole year without getting what they wanted. this way people can get their gear in months and know they are getting their gear. before it was just praying it would be your turn.

    there is an element of luck brought back in as you can now win extra BNP's and omega marks and they can greatly help.

    Ive had 10 extra BNP's drop in a match, so there are some decent rewards on offer.

    once people are at tier 5, which wont take that long, it will feel much better as you can work towards what you want and ignore what you dont.

    The 'old' system was luck, but that luck could be skewed in your favor. I don't need a spreadsheet to tell me that in missions where I outdamaged everyone else I got better drops. Heh, my 'luck' got to be so good my proto salvage drops sometimes were 4:1 over rare salvage drops. In 3 weeks I went from no STF gear to never needing to visit the rep store and more dilithium (from salvage drop sales) than I could make in 6 months of grinding.

    The only thing unfair about this new system is that I have to pay the same price for gear as the guy who can't shoot his way thru a wet paper bag in STF's. The DEVs sold my luck to the mediocre players.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • mandarsmashmandarsmash Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Again, the rep system itself is fine. The Marks that Normal STFs give out should probably at least double what they are now, if not more. Maybe as far as saying a Normal STF should give out two-thirds the Marks of the equivalent Elite--but the remaining drops, including BNPs should stay the same as now.

    That's really all this system needs.

    1) "N00bs" get the majority of the gear they want that way, just needing to learn how to run Elites to get the majority of their BNPs--but they don't have to run Elites from the start and don't feel pressured to do so. Mark XIs are definitely good enough anyway, unless you intend to mostly run Elites anyway;

    2) Players who had all the gear but who want to get back to where they were before can do so much faster;

    3) Casual players won't feel nearly as left in the dust as they do now. Getting two-thirds means they'll get enough Marks from one or two STFs a night at a pace that is manageable to feel like they're progressing and yet be fair to those who are playing Elite all the time, who are not only getting more Marks, but better drops and the BNPs for Mark XIIs.

    One more change that should be made to the current Rep system is that NOTHING should take 40 hours to complete. Considering the Mark and EC costs needed to up Rep levels and research, actually getting your stuff shouldn't entail 40 hours of waiting.

    I would probably propose that no project take more than 20 hours. The Rep projects should probably cap out at maybe 16 hours tops, with Store unlocks around the same or less. Only gear unlocks, such as for the coveted items, should be 20 hours. It's really unfair to work so hard to get the requirements and still have to wait basically 2 days to get your reward.

    The Rep system itself is an excellent system that allows all players to potentially get the stuff that they want. The numbers, however, are so off-kilter that they almost defeat the purpose of the system. Thankfully, numbers are easy to change, and don't require a system re-write. Most of the work is good. The reward tables and times are just horrible, however.

    You're almost there, Cryptic. Just take it that last step!
  • grievasgrievas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012

    2) Players who had all the gear but who want to get back to where they were before can do so much faster;

    What do you mean, i don't understand this. The gear players had before is not gone.

    also you are not up to date, as the project times were shortened to 20 hours already.
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