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The new Vesta ship. DEVS please read.

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  • specter300specter300 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Buying the bundle, and considering this is a F2P I don't think they're overpriced.

    I'm not rich. or have pots of money.

    Also, could you define what a 'ordinary' person is?

    In any case, just because I can't afford everything in the game doesn't mean that prices should drop. I pick and chose what I pay for and what I really want that will make the game enjoyable. :)

    I Agree this is a F2P game so quit wineing about what you don't have and enjoy what you do have.
    [SIGPIC]SELVECK[/SIGPIC]
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i personally dont see any issue with the ship prices as they are,i spent 30bucks on zen during the sale through steam wallet,and grinded the rest with dil->zen so yea for me the pricing was more like buy one get 2 free.it just takes time to grind instead of "OOHH UBER LEET SHIP MUST HAZ NOW" attitude and drop 50 bucks on it lol. :P
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    specter300 wrote: »
    I Agree this is a F2P game so quit wineing about what you don't have and enjoy what you do have.
    i personally dont see any issue with the ship prices as they are,i spent 30bucks on zen during the sale through steam wallet,and grinded the rest with dil->zen so yea for me the pricing was more like buy one get 2 free.it just takes time to grind instead of "OOHH UBER LEET SHIP MUST HAZ NOW" attitude and drop 50 bucks on it lol. :P

    And answers like these are the reason that before this game finally closes its doors you'll see $99 ships in the C-Store.

    Incredible.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    And answers like these are the reason that before this game finally closes its doors you'll see $99 ships in the C-Store.

    Incredible.
    well sir i will parallel another company who does something similar with the "c-store" content. wargaming.net with WoT has 50 dollar tanks in that game (at most, cheapest is like 8 bucks) and they are doing things like sponsoring the retrieval of buried spitfires from burma, refiting the iowa for museum duty and they made enough also to buy Bigworld(their engine developer) for 45 mil so high priced items ingame tend to go toward content/projects of the devs choice like cryptic has been using lockbox income to afford more devs so we can haz more content now,and not 5 years down the road.
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
  • arcanoxerarcanoxer Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i personally dont see any issue with the ship prices as they are,i spent 30bucks on zen during the sale through steam wallet,and grinded the rest with dil->zen so yea for me the pricing was more like buy one get 2 free.it just takes time to grind instead of "OOHH UBER LEET SHIP MUST HAZ NOW" attitude and drop 50 bucks on it lol. :P
    Using Steam for STO, specially Steam Wallet is way smarter!



    ...not. :P
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    And answers like these are the reason that before this game finally closes its doors you'll see $99 ships in the C-Store.

    Incredible.

    See, when you say things like that, you start to lose credibility for your argument.
    Ships are never going to be that expensive. Honestly, I do believe the prices the ships are at now will be what they stay at, relative to their tier. Same goes with the 3-packs, if those continue to be A Thing.
    Also, this game is probably not going to close its doors any time soon. Right now, it's making good money. Plus, it has the attentions of a very interested party: CBS. I'm sure between them and PWE, and Cryptic working diligently on improving the game, STO will be around for quite some time. Prophesying doom for the game, when all evidence indicates otherwise is not the way to add gravity to your opinions.
    With something as unique as the Vesta, I think Cryptic should have priced it lower (and sold it individually) and I think they'd have gotten much more sales - one at least from me anyway.

    So this is you completely ignoring the fact that they did in fact do that, because they have each variant of the ship available for separate purchase, in addition to the 3-pack (which is actually kind of a deal comparatively).
    Each version of the Vesta is about $25, which is the norm for a ship of that tier. The 3-pack is $50, worth two of them. But you get three. It's essentially a "Buy Two Get One Free" deal.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • abstract1981abstract1981 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    And answers like these are the reason that before this game finally closes its doors you'll see $99 ships in the C-Store.

    Incredible.

    quoted for truth. $99 each or $250 for the 3 ship bundle.

    the ones defending these prices will own every single ship are unbelievable. it hurts to read such insanity.
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    arcanoxer wrote: »
    Using Steam for STO, specially Steam Wallet is way smarter!



    ...not. :P
    actually for me using steam for sto is benifical to me cause, ive had issues in the past with STO file verification system where as steams file verification system has no issue when something goes wrong wth STO (corrupt/missing files and such)and besides steam wallet qualifed for the 15% off zen special :P
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    well sir i will parallel another company who does something similar with the "c-store" content. wargaming.net with WoT has 50 dollar tanks in that game (at most cheapest is like 8 bucks) and they are doing things like sponsoring the retrieval of buried spitfires from burma, refiting the iowa for museum duty and they made enough also to buy Bigworld(their engine developer) for 45 mil so high priced items ingame tend to go toward content/projects of the devs choice like cryptic has been using lockbox income to afford more devs so we can haz more content now,and not 5 years down the road.

    It's nice to think that your purchases go straight to Cryptic and as a consequence back into the game, but they don't.

    Cryptic is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PWE - every nickel you spend goes into PWE's pockets then they decide what proportion of that they want to spend on Cryptic or their other projects.

    Paying these crazy prices doesn't guarantee that Cryptic will get more money. All it guarantees is that they'll be told to make more ships and continue charging these prices (or more, if they can get away with it).

    The WoT story is nice though - something like that I could support since it benefits many more people than just the Devs/Publishers.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • abstract1981abstract1981 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    Ships are never going to be that expensive.

    you sound pretty sure of yourself there. $25 for a single virtual ship to fly around in is reasonable, as is $50 for 3 virtual ships. nevermind the fact that they're one ship with 3 palette swaps and they're charging twice as much as the single ship for 2 color changes.

    and no bridge.

    unbelievable, man. simply unbelivable.
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    zerobang wrote: »
    and those appear to be a ST micro machine equivlent of a lockbox item as both said they were rare items,so if a collector really wanted them i bet they would pay the cash to get one.
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
  • romuzariiromuzarii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012

    Long story short: YES, it's expensive but NO, it's not "overpriced".
    Really? because I imagine alot more people would be buying cstore ships if they were just half their current price. 20 bucks is pretty steep for a virtual item. People are rolling in the money in other MMOs that charge far less because far more people bite at the cash grabs. 1 million sales at 5 dollars is a hell of alot more money than 100,000 sales at 20 dollars. There's a reason only 10% pay a dime on this game. They should look into why that is rather than complain about it.
  • rikwesselsrikwessels Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I think the ships are overpriced . Let's see : for $50 you buy 3 ships - but no slots - while the same amount of cash buys you a fully priced retail game ( with no worries if and when servers will go offline ) .The very least they could do is add the ship slots to the bundle ( and throw in a uniform for good measure ) .Then I'd find it far more reasonable .

    It's about value for money and $25/ship - and extra if you want the slot - is steep considering this is an online game .
  • manwholaughsmanwholaughs Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    And answers like these are the reason that before this game finally closes its doors you'll see $99 ships in the C-Store.

    Incredible.

    I know... It's just sad that people are this stupid, to the point that it hurts.
    quoted for truth. $99 each or $250 for the 3 ship bundle.

    the ones defending these prices will own every single ship are unbelievable. it hurts to read such insanity.

    Exactly!
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    quoted for truth. $99 each or $250 for the 3 ship bundle.

    the ones defending these prices will own every single ship are unbelievable. it hurts to read such insanity.

    Quoted for irony.
    you sound pretty sure of yourself there. $25 for a single virtual ship to fly around in is reasonable, as is $50 for 3 virtual ships. nevermind the fact that they're one ship with 3 palette swaps and they're charging twice as much as the single ship for 2 color changes.

    and no bridge.

    unbelievable, man. simply unbelivable.

    It's not even a matter of being sure of myself as being able to observe and predict patterns. Ship prices haven't fluctuated much in months now.
    And honestly, at least this three pack is superior to the last ones in terms of ship cosmetics.
    And what does the Vesta bridge even look like? My research has been inconclusive, and Cryptic probably didn't want to step on Radermaker's toes and make one themselves. I'm fine with using star cruiser or long range science vessel bridges for now.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    See, when you say things like that, you start to lose credibility for your argument.
    Ships are never going to be that expensive. Honestly, I do believe the prices the ships are at now will be what they stay at, relative to their tier. Same goes with the 3-packs, if those continue to be A Thing.
    Also, this game is probably not going to close its doors any time soon. Right now, it's making good money. Plus, it has the attentions of a very interested party: CBS. I'm sure between them and PWE, and Cryptic working diligently on improving the game, STO will be around for quite some time. Prophesying doom for the game, when all evidence indicates otherwise is not the way to add gravity to your opinions.

    If you'd been here at the beginning then I suspect that you'd have made similar claims that Cryptic would never charge $50 for a C-Store purchase. Prices already grossly inflated with the transition to Zen. $25 wasn't enough for Cryptic for ships so they started producing these 3-packs for $50 (which is completely unnecessary - did we need a Sci Odyssey? No. No more than we need an Engineering Vesta).

    These guys will charge whatever they think they can get away with - even the 'good' guys in the industry get greedy (the whole EVE $40 monocle thing) - Cryptic with PWE at the helm are quite possibly the greediest operation I've encountered in gaming (aside from maybe Zynga).

    Anyway - I stand by my statement - $99 ships (or bundles) before this game close its doors and on the day they announce it, you owe me one.
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    So this is you completely ignoring the fact that they did in fact do that, because they have each variant of the ship available for separate purchase, in addition to the 3-pack (which is actually kind of a deal comparatively).
    Each version of the Vesta is about $25, which is the norm for a ship of that tier. The 3-pack is $50, worth two of them. But you get three. It's essentially a "Buy Two Get One Free" deal.

    Not in my C-Store - all I have available is the 3-pack. I'll check again though once the server comes back up.

    *Edit* just checked and I stand corrected - the Vesta does indeed show up as separate purchases - not sure why I wasn't seeing that before (mostly been playing KDF so that might have had something to do with it) but irrespective I'm glad to see they haven't taken a 'bundle-only' approach - it says something of my apathy to their pricing/business tactics that it didn't surprise me in the least when I thought they had though...
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    rikwessels wrote: »
    I think the ships are overpriced . Let's see : for $50 you buy 3 ships - but no slots - while the same amount of cash buys you a fully priced retail game ( with no worries if and when servers will go offline ) .The very least they could do is add the ship slots to the bundle ( and throw in a uniform for good measure ) .Then I'd find it far more reasonable .

    It's about value for money and $25/ship - and extra if you want the slot - is steep considering this is an online game .
    you sir must not have read my post above or a page or to back the 50 dollar price tag is for those who must haz it now,while people like myself subsidize the cost with dil->zen cause i myself wasnt going to pay 50 dollars.so instead i payed 30 and converted the rest so in reality i got a great deal,buy one vesta get 2 free.but for those who are to lazy to save a bit of dilithum for zen conversion are the ones who will get hit hardest in their wallet.
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
  • walshicuswalshicus Member Posts: 1,314 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If you think it's over-priced, don't buy it. Sell Dilithium for Zen instead.

    I'm pretty sure most subscription MMO's have gear or items which you grind for months to get. Think of the Vesta in that same light - something you need to put time into acquiring without cash.
    http://mmo-economics.com - analysing the economic interactions in MMOs.
  • manwholaughsmanwholaughs Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    romuzarii wrote: »
    Really? because I imagine alot more people would be buying cstore ships if they were just half their current price. 20 bucks is pretty steep for a virtual item. People are rolling in the money in other MMOs that charge far less because far more people bite at the cash grabs. 1 million sales at 5 dollars is a hell of alot more money than 100,000 sales at 20 dollars. There's a reason only 10% pay a dime on this game. They should look into why that is rather than complain about it.

    You hit the nail right on the head there, cheaper items will sell a whole lot more, hence drawing in more revenue in the long term, but it seems most people here are too stupid to figure that out.
  • rikwesselsrikwessels Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    you sir must not have read my post above or a page or to back the 50 dollar price tag is for those who must haz it now,while people like myself subsidize the cost with dil->zen cause i myself wasnt going to pay 50 dollars.so instead i payed 30 and converted the rest so in reality i got a great deal,buy one vesta get 2 free.but for those who are to lazy to save a bit of dilithum for zen conversion are the ones who will get hit hardest in their wallet.

    There are folks who either don't have the time ( you know: other stuff in life ) or the inclination to do the entire dilithium>zen thing . Saying you don't have to buy them is a lame excuse for pricing policy . You also don't have to buy a CD with music ( after all: there's radio )
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    rikwessels wrote: »
    There are folks who either don't have the time ( you know: other stuff in life ) or the inclination to do the entire dilithium>zen thing . Saying you don't have to buy them is a lame excuse for pricing policy . You also don't have to buy a CD with music ( after all: there's radio )
    well speaking about people who dont have time to do it sir i go to tech school and have a job its just called time management skills.
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If you'd been here at the beginning then I suspect that you'd have made similar claims that Cryptic would never charge $50 for a C-Store purchase. Prices already grossly inflated with the transition to Zen. $25 wasn't enough for Cryptic for ships so they started producing these 3-packs for $50 (which is completely unnecessary - did we need a Sci Odyssey? No. No more than we need an Engineering Vesta).

    These guys will charge whatever they think they can get away with - even the 'good' guys in the industry get greedy (the whole EVE $40 monocle thing) - Cryptic with PWE at the helm are quite possibly the greediest operation I've encountered in gaming (aside from maybe Zynga).

    Anyway - I stand by my statement - $99 ships (or bundles) before this game close its doors and on the day they announce it, you owe me one.

    I've been here since the second week of Beta.
    Not Closed Beta. Beta Testing.
    I remember when Klingon play had to be unlocked, and it was a PvP only faction and had to grind my way to Lt. General by beating everyone around me to a bloody pulp (it was a simpler time).
    I remember when tricorders had a little glow light on them.
    I remember the Borg before they could adapt.
    I remember the first time a dev commented on a post of mine (it was about the Dyson sphere).
    And I've never made any such claims because making such claims is foolish. Do I make reasonable assumptions or educated estimations? I like to think so, but I this does not preclude the fact that I can be proven wrong at any time because the STO devs have Captain's Prerogative: anything at any time can be subject to changes. They've said as much, and it says as much in the Terms of Service all players agreed to before playing the game.
    And frankly, the prices of ships has only really significantly changed when the game fully converted to Zen. Rounded things out, but they've stayed at relatively similar prices.
    And honestly, I'm not gonna "owe" you anything, because I am more confident in my ability to observe patterns and make reasonable predictions than I am of ill-informed, heat of the moment doom calling.
    walshicus wrote: »
    If you think it's over-priced, don't buy it. Sell Dilithium for Zen instead.

    I'm pretty sure most subscription MMO's have gear or items which you grind for months to get. Think of the Vesta in that same light - something you need to put time into acquiring without cash.

    Oh gosh, is that a reasonable post with an enlightened point of view? Great Roddenberry's ghost, I do believe it is.
    It would behoove many of you to take such words to heart.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • edited November 2012
    This content has been removed.
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The company will set the price based on the best return.

    There will be a minimum price which will cover the costs.

    There will be a maximum price that would not sell well.

    In between these two is a sweet spot, the best price the market can stand with the best return based on the metrics of previous purchases.

    They may indeed sell more ships at a lower price but there will be a price point whereby they sell the maximum number of ships to the maximum number of people. This is the price they currently use.

    Therefore the price is unlikely to change unless market forces dictate a change. There will always be those that can't afford something and state if you lower the price I would buy it, but if they did that they would lose money because they are already selling the maximum number they can and the few extra purchases at a lower price would not make up for the less purchases at a higher price.

    Sales 101

    +10 internets to you, good sir.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • svimepelsensvimepelsen Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I would agree that selling ship packs for 45 euros is to expensive unless it is an elite item wich is pretty much alitle bit better than any other ship of its class. However I do think what the developers are doing letting all high end ships (fleet and z-store) range from about 193 euros to 45 (2000 zen to 5000 zen) is not the best solution. Considering most people probobly end up changing their minds changing ships every now and then and just 3 ship changes will be about 60 euros that's pretty expensive - not too mention if you have toon. Also keep in mind that the digital product we are buying is fairly quickly and easy to develop compared to other large expansion packs or entire games that costs the same. Ofcourse this can't change because the price have already been set to this level for this type of items. However I would like them to let other new contentthat would eventually come into the game like say zen store consoles or set's too be much cheaper. This way the price is more in line with the work put into a few very small items.

    Also a very important note that the developers schould notice is that people really wants "everything" so selling cheaper zen store items would led alot more to buy them because their affordable but people that are willing to dump alot of cash into the game (me included) will dump it into the game anyways because they want to have all the new shiny stuff you guys developes
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    and those appear to be a ST micro machine equivlent of a lockbox item as both said they were rare items,so if a collector really wanted them i bet they would pay the cash to get one.

    my point being: People who buy these crappy old plastic things for such pricetags are the same people that pay such amounts for a few Polygons and Textures and you dont even need to write "rare" on it. (there is nothing rare about that Bird of Prey).

    That's the Playerbase we are all dealing with here.

    I don't even blame Cryptic for the prices, i blame the players who pay for it, if i had a thing going like that and noticed that i could ask whatever price i want and people would buy anyway, i'd do the same thing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    I've been here since the second week of Beta.
    Not Closed Beta. Beta Testing.
    I remember when Klingon play had to be unlocked, and it was a PvP only faction and had to grind my way to Lt. General by beating everyone around me to a bloody pulp (it was a simpler time).
    I remember when tricorders had a little glow light on them.
    I remember the Borg before they could adapt.
    I remember the first time a dev commented on a post of mine (it was about the Dyson sphere).
    And I've never made any such claims because making such claims is foolish.

    I'd have thought someone that had been here all this time (the same length of time as myself for the record) would have been quite familiar with the creeping monetization of everything in this game - the latest nerfs to Dilithium earning and the corresponding increase in Dilithium costs being a glaring example - but for some reason you choose to ignore it. That's your right of course as it is mine to speculate where next Cryptic/PWE will look to squeeze money from us (as they're not done yet).
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    Do I make reasonable assumptions or educated estimations? I like to think so, but I this does not preclude the fact that I can be proven wrong at any time because the STO devs have Captain's Prerogative: anything at any time can be subject to changes. They've said as much, and it says as much in the Terms of Service all players agreed to before playing the game.
    And frankly, the prices of ships has only really significantly changed when the game fully converted to Zen. Rounded things out, but they've stayed at relatively similar prices.
    And honestly, I'm not gonna "owe" you anything, because I am more confident in my ability to observe patterns and make reasonable predictions than I am of ill-informed, heat of the moment doom calling.

    And what you regard as ill-informed, heat of the moment doom calling I see more as an inevitable progression of the current chain of decision making underpinning the game. Time will tell which of us was 'right'. In the meantime, I'll continue to pay Cryptic what I feel is a reasonable price for services offered which at the moment is zero. They have the means to change that but with people such as yourself around, little incentive it seems.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The company will set the price based on the best return.

    There will be a minimum price which will cover the costs.

    There will be a maximum price that would not sell well.

    In between these two is a sweet spot, the best price the market can stand with the best return based on the metrics of previous purchases.

    They may indeed sell more ships at a lower price but there will be a price point whereby they sell the maximum number of ships to the maximum number of people. This is the price they currently use.

    Therefore the price is unlikely to change unless market forces dictate a change. There will always be those that can't afford something and state if you lower the price I would buy it, but if they did that they would lose money because they are already selling the maximum number they can and the few extra purchases at a lower price would not make up for the less purchases at a higher price.

    Sales 101

    Sales 101 indeed.

    But you're talking about a company that screwed up so badly with the Dilithium changes in Season 7 that they've had to change direction. There's little-to-no business sense at work here - just a desire to recoup maximum return for minimum outlay.
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
  • mastergenera1mastergenera1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I myself have been here since open beta as a lifer(my main, borg engineer still uses the crash test tribble title from s1 test),im just not using the lifer forum tags,i dont know if i should believe stahl when he says the game is really profitable atm and STO has a bright future or not but since ive been here as long as i have and my experience with other games/companies i know what to expect.funny thing is if doomsayers in this thread remember ppl have been doomsaying since launch and look where we are at now. :cool:
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson
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