It has all the ability to completely and utter negate the alpha strike potential in addition to huge defense reserves to come back fighting. And when it does, DHC + Danubes + SS + VM + FBP + SNB will obliterate any opponent. But, I guess we will just have to wait and keep an eye on the Q's and forum for potential problems.
I see your problem and I see the solution... another 5000 zen ship set with the three piece bonus making you immune to carrier pets. Bam problem solved get your wallet ready....
So this ship can do the job of an escort and science vessel... Big whoop, the bug can do the job of an escort and a cruiser. The wells can do the job of a science vessel and a cruiser. This ship isn't over powered. Ill tell you how to kill it right now. a feedback pulse 2/3, a TBR 1/2 or a rapid fire 2/3 or a DEM 1/2 and APB/D 2/3 or a shutdown build with aoe extras to Deal with spam.Congrats there is a way to take out low hull ships. It's not that over powered. Instead of complaining and griping about it. Find a weakness and exploit it. There is no god ship/ only god like players. Your good or bad depending on your skill not your ship.
This.
The ship's not even out yet and sub-par players are already screaming for a nerf. :rolleyes: If you want a game where only YOU can win, go play little big planet or some such.
Personally I'm looking forward to the Vesta because it's a jack of all trades and will require a different playstyle. Screaming 'nerf' before you've even seen one is the last resort of the unimaginative.
***The above ramblings are, as always, my own opinion. Based on my experiences and interpreted by my mind, they by no means reflect the universal truth (unless coincidentally). Peace.***
The ship's not even out yet and sub-par players are already screaming for a nerf. :rolleyes: If you want a game where only YOU can win, go play little big planet or some such.
Personally I'm looking forward to the Vesta because it's a jack of all trades and will require a different playstyle. Screaming 'nerf' before you've even seen one is the last resort of the unimaginative.
I can't tell are you agreeing with me.
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!""Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
Who cares if it is anymore, the BUGS have thrown all the balance out, Craptic and there pay to win lockbox ships have ruined and killed any pvp in this game, Kerrat is a complete joke. Sorry to say it but go elsewhere for pvp this game will never have it right as its now PTW. Or gamble hundreds to win.
Only way to start getting any decent level in it is to ban lockbox ships from pvp.
Yes torps and a dbb fail sometimes but they wont fail a whole match long. Also you notice the missing dps compared to 4 DHC if your dbb/torps fail.
Also yes sci ships lack spike but again a fleet sci recon with a dbb bo could also deal spike if it hits. We will see if this turns out to be a problem. Just stay calm and wait.
Also sci can deal quite some dmg with good timed torps or tric mines at the moment. Or with sci powers if there are some working at the time, like PSW once did.
a periodic BO2 is spike now? oh really? didn't know that. i though spike was damage that completely overcame a shield facing in the first weapon cycle and dealt hull damage, that someone has to fire off 3 or 4 abilities to try to survive, all over about 10 seconds. not a bunch of near harmless hits and 1 hit that chunks a couple thousand shield hitpoints. the vesta will deal about 4 times as much damage as a recons, and about 8 times as much useful damage as a recons, it will deal more useful damage then nearly all fed cruisers.
So you are trying to build an escort with a sci ship. Should work but why dont you simply take an escort? Like the multi vector? Isn't there even some kind of fleet version of it with 5 tac consoles? In the end you trade your tac com for a sci com. Dont know if you really need that sci com, I think in an escort the tac might be better. Also you do have less turn rate and are missing one weapon slot.
The way I see it the vesta would be an escort with less dmg but one hangar. Don't know if its worth the trade. The vesta will provide some variety but I don't really think it will be that op. It might be in line with lockbox ships or the oddy.
the vesta comes from the factory a sci ship built like an escort. its a sci ship that has 100% of the sci debuff potential, and 3/4 an escorts damage potential. this is so much more ideal then a MVAM escort to a sci its laughable. runabout pets, sci commander station, 3 DHC running off your aux, SA, subsytem targeting, commander sci station, 2 AtB capability, masivly beter at tanking, can run EWP, can equip APO, its got everything.
I understand you rage but please just take a moment to think about it. The ship is certainly good no doubt but it's no way near what you are imagining.
It will be n very nice ship to pug in and probably good in farming randoms.
i have spent far to many moments thinking about it. there is no other conclusion to come to.
As someone else mentioned the Kar'fi. Look at the stats. It has a base turn of 8, thats more than a normal fed cruiser. It has 34,500 hull and an ok shield mod. Even a console that makes it untargetable. It has 2 hangars with unique pets, pets have tric mines and torps and even have chroniton torps as well.
So you have sci ship that can do as much dmg as an excelsior with pets as well and a special console. Sounds op? Well its a nice ship but I suppose you have seen it, it is nothing to worry about.
its a glass cannon, it lacks runabouts and SA, its shield mod is MUCH less, its not even close to as maneuverable, etc... still a very dangerous ship of course.
Stats can be misleading and I know you do not trust cryptic after all they have released. But please just wait and see. I really don't think it will be that bad and I am pretty sure it won't kick the bug of it's op throne.
stats are not misleading. if you know what they actually mean, you know exactly how dangerous something will be.
is about overcoming and finding ways to win. If you spent as much time planning and running numbers as you did stressing and complaining you would know that the ship has a lot of weaknesses
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!""Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
is about overcoming and finding ways to win. If you spent as much time planning and running numbers as you did stressing and complaining you would know that the ship has a lot of weaknesses
uh who are you? wanna sit in match with a coordinated team of siphon drones and think about how to overcome them?
a periodic BO2 is spike now? oh really? didn't know that. i though spike was damage that completely overcame a shield facing in the first weapon cycle and dealt hull damage, that someone has to fire off 3 or 4 abilities to try to survive, all over about 10 seconds. not a bunch of near harmless hits and 1 hit that chunks a couple thousand shield hitpoints. the vesta will deal about 4 times as much damage as a recons, and about 8 times as much useful damage as a recons, it will deal more useful damage then nearly all fed cruisers.
Ok so you are saying a vesta can overcome a shield facing? With 3 DHC and 4 tac consoles? Really?
I do not have any numbers of 3 dbb with bo (any maybe a weapons bat) vs 3 dhc and crf in 10sec. Would be interesting to see. I think the main prob with bo is that it doesn't always hit.
the vesta comes from the factory a sci ship built like an escort. its a sci ship that has 100% of the sci debuff potential, and 3/4 an escorts damage potential. this is so much more ideal then a MVAM escort to a sci its laughable. runabout pets, sci commander station, 3 DHC running off your aux, SA, subsytem targeting, commander sci station, 2 AtB capability, masivly beter at tanking, can run EWP, can equip APO, its got everything.
Yep it got many things. But not all at once. I would not run aux cannons and atb at the same time for example.
As for tanking, its worse than an orb or a wells/korath.
Yes it is a sci ship that could deal quite a lot of dmg. But if you run it as a sci you don't have 2/3 of an escorts dmg. You are not only missing the one DHC you are also missing buffs. If you want to run 2 atb you have to use your universal lt cmdr as eng. That means you only got CRF1 and no other attack patterns.
Also if you run a atb build you don't have many doff slots left to buff sci. Like vm doffs or tbr doffs.
Oh and you can't use subystem targeting with DHC's. Well you can mount a beam in the rear but you have to turn your cannons away to use it.
Oh and EWP, APO and 2 atb works on orb and wells/korath as well.
its a glass cannon, it lacks runabouts and SA, its shield mod is MUCH less, its not even close to as maneuverable, etc... still a very dangerous ship of course.
Yes. I only wanted to point out that it sounds better on paper than it really is. I still think/hope it is the same for the vesta.
stats are not misleading. if you know what they actually mean, you know exactly how dangerous something will be.
Yes and no. While being versatile is an advantage for a ship it still can't do everything at the same time. An universal doff means a choice, that is an advantage but you still only have one doff at a time. Some times things really sound more scary than they are. I say let's wait and see, test a bit and provide feedback that hopefully is not ignored.
But threads that call something "uber overpowered" before we got a chance to test something are not helping I would say.
Overcoming a shield facing has less to do with Tac consoles (bar maybe an extreme like the Gal-R or something) and far more to do with timing, buff stacking and your front-loaded arc (timing is a big part of why DHCs are so great, by the way). Resists and heals can be taken to such extremes in this game that no amount of burst in the world will overcome it, hence you have to wait until an opponent is vulnerable.
I can't say for certain whether the Besta can burst or not in high-stress situations... the loss of a forward weapon is a big deal, but who knows without testing it really. I would say with fair certainty that it can still at least put out a lot of pain if the player's good.
Ok so you are saying a vesta can overcome a shield facing? With 3 DHC and 4 tac consoles? Really?
I do not have any numbers of 3 dbb with bo (any maybe a weapons bat) vs 3 dhc and crf in 10sec. Would be interesting to see. I think the main prob with bo is that it doesn't always hit.
If you had even a passing knowlage of how BO works, how DBB's vs DHC's cmpare and how even CRF1 works you'd know the anwser. DHC's have a good solid 10% more base, with even CRF1 factored in this baloons to 43%. BO inflicts a massive power drain, you cna get roudn it with a weapons bat or Aux to bat, but thats about it. In adittion it gives you at best 1 salvo at 8.5 times normal power. The catch. DBB's ar on a 2 second cycle, BO3 only raises your total salvo count from 15 to 22. Thus IF you can negate the power drain and IF you compae BO3 to CRF1 you've got parity. Go upto to CRF2, or drop to BO2 and it's not even a contest any more. The tac oddy can also mount more tac consoles than nearly any other sci ship. It's not a huge boost, (7% real terms with MkXII Very Rare wepaons and consoles), but it is there.
Thats the thing, compare it to an actual sci ship and it's leaps and bounds ahead. You can, (weithout Aux to bat spam), negate the BO power drain once every several uses. CRF has no attenden power drain and cna thus be chained repeatedly. Not only does it have a strong advantage on initial burst, but after that initial burst it can still throw a nice hard volley at you when CRF comes of CD again, the other sci options are waiting for the power booster to come up from CD. And in an initial burst vs initial burst comparision the vesta is allways going to have that deflector to smack you about with. Even if thats just another BO, (a lot weaker than i'm expecting), that will puch it's first burst potentiol up to at LEAST Defiant levels.
when people think of damage dealing, they only seem to think about a lone bug stomping a mud hole in everything in front of it. by looking at the vesta stats, and seeing that it only can only mount 3 cannons and have limited tac stations in most situations, they know it cant do what a bug or any other super escort can, so its damage dealing will be negligible. ROFL. really, i cant think of any other explanation to people not getting this.
this type of damage dealing, its nothing. its pissing in the wind of cross heals, it accomplishes nothing on its own, you cant simply shoot someone to death when there are good healers around, and potential targets that know how to take a hit.
enter debuffing, the way kills are gotten. when someone has no functioning subsystems because of VM, no resistance running and nothing available to use because of a well timed SNB, a huge hull resistance debuff from sensor scan, is held in its own or its runabouts tractor beam so they have 0 defence score, are stuck in warp plasma and receiving a dot wile having a double hold on them that they cant dig out of, and having the damage potential of CRF1 with 3 DHCs, well let me tell you that damage will go a long way then.
see, a normal sci ship already can do all that, there are 3 that come with a LTC eng, they can set up kills easily with some or all of that afflicting a target at once, so they are easy picking for an escort. but the vesta, well it can deal so much damage on its own, and the best type of damage, true DHC spike damage, that it could potentially get these kills on its own. and if not, an escort is going to notice someone in that bad a way and shoot at the target too. 100 times i have been in this debuffed state, and all the times i survived it was by the skin of my teeth. stack another 1/4- 3/4 burst spike damage in there, and non of those times i lived would i make it out alive.
if you look at the vesta stats, and cant clearly see this play out every single time, you are inexperienced. thats all right, we all were. thats not going to change the fact that the vesta truly is uber overpowered.
sci captain uber build
3 non aux DHC, 2 crono mines, or tric mines, 1 beam array for subsytem targeting.
every one of these abilities can be used at their global cooldown. never ending VM, never ending tractor hold from pets and yourself, never ending plasma hold, global TT and CRF. the only question is how long it will take for you to die, wile you are rendered completely helpless. don't for get SA, the longer you take a pounding, the more damage it will deal.
this is just the most uber thing i can think of, there are proboly at least 5-10 other builds that could completely dominate as well.
uh who are you? wanna sit in match with a coordinated team of siphon drones and think about how to overcome them?
The vesta is BS op, it's as simple as this.
I'm they guy that rather spend time finding ways to get around issues then complain about them. I'm sorry if your the type of person that sees an issue an goes well looks like we're done. But I'm the type that goes "maybe this will work." P.s. there is a way to beat a siphon build it just makes it so one of your team mates is dps useles.
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!""Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
every one of these abilities can be used at their global cooldown. never ending VM, never ending tractor hold from pets and yourself, never ending plasma hold, global TT and CRF. the only question is how long it will take for you to die, wile you are rendered completely helpless. don't for get SA, the longer you take a pounding, the more damage it will deal.
this is just the most uber thing i can think of, there are proboly at least 5-10 other builds that could completely dominate as well.
Almost exactly what I am planning to do. Im going with turrets rather than mines and I wont be using deN00b pets.
Almost exactly what I am planning to do. Im going with turrets rather than mines and I wont be using deN00b pets.
ya with the non aux canons you could run turrets too. but chrono mines, when 4 hit you over and over, can purma slow you, thier debuffs stack sequentially, not on top of each other. entertaining any idea of escaping? not gonna happen. a tric mine wile your stuck there would be good too, buffed or not, espesually if you have blasted down the faceing it will hit. for a tac captain i would proboly go with 3 turrets though for maximum tac buffed damage dealing.
APO will actually clear a chrono debuff the same why TT clears FOMM, and guard you from receiving the proc wile its active, noticed that recently and though i would share.
A sci in an escort was always nice. You can use ewp in an armitage and tb your enemy, you have danubes and can snb if you are a sci. Now true you are missing vm and the skill uptime of your atb build.
But I suppose you made your point.
By the way you might want to consider an ewp doff with your build. They are really nice.
A sci in an escort was always nice. You can use ewp in an armitage and tb your enemy, you have danubes and can snb if you are a sci. Now true you are missing vm and the skill uptime of your atb build.
But I suppose you made your point.
By the way you might want to consider an ewp doff with your build. They are really nice.
I've recommended them to drunk before but he's said he doesn't find they're necessary. I can see his point, but at the same time I love driving the knife in a little deeper when I'm in the D'Kora or whatever.
I've recommended them to drunk before but he's said he doesn't find they're necessary. I can see his point, but at the same time I love driving the knife in a little deeper when I'm in the D'Kora or whatever.
ive been considering it, but giving up a bfi doff when im already down to 2 is a hard thing to do. what would i do without my crutch? lol
i cant wait to see what 3 part escort they cook up to balance this sci ship and the ody cruiser.
thats the only thing missin.
I bet it'll be an ambassador class ship that's has a destroyer type setup.
4 fore weapon slots that can equip dual cannons.
4 rear weapon slots
Tactical variant has 360 dual heavy cannon
Engineering variant comes with a hyper-impulse engine that gives:-
+60 Attack patterns
+90 Inertial Dampers
+30 maneuvers
+40 impulse engines
Science variant has sensor analysis
(forgetting my dismal attempt at humour, I actually do like the idea of the ambassador class being a destroyer)
***The above ramblings are, as always, my own opinion. Based on my experiences and interpreted by my mind, they by no means reflect the universal truth (unless coincidentally). Peace.***
I have the vesta tac version and i found it a very equilibrate ship, not Op as many are saying!
But sorry...what i found OVERPOWERED in STO is some ?*"?#@ little escorts that decimated a whole team in pvp without the slightest injury or damage in their shields...
For me Escorts must be limited, they destroy totally the PVP game and STO!
I have the vesta tac version and i found it a very equilibrate ship, not Op as many are saying!
But sorry...what i found OVERPOWERED in STO is some ?*"?#@ little escorts that decimated a whole team in pvp without the slightest injury or damage in their shields...
For me Escorts must be limited, they destroy totally the PVP game and STO!
After specs+equipment, 38000 hull is very low. If you equip the three consoles, you're left with two field generator slots in science (should you run the science variant). You only have 11k and change without the field gens. With one field generator you have 13k shields, with two you have 15k and change.
Which now leaves you with 5 more consoles left. What to do.
Tactical will most likely take up your choice of weaponry. So that's 3 gone already. Engineering, 38000 hull, to reinforce or not to reinforce. Oh but you have cannons, so put a pair of RCS on there to use them. And there you go, 32 degree turn rate to fire 45 degree weapons. You can put an APO, the ship will achieve a 45 degree turn rate periodically. You could of course enhance this with AP doffs. However, the main problem still persists, 38000 hull is 1 shot juicy if you decide to use the cannons.
Yes I get it, it comes with a super shield. Viral, photonic shockwave, aux proc, tric, it's offline. Not to mention the 3 minute CD on it.
Fermion field, really nice AOE. 3 minute cool down. You have a console on your ship that does nothing for 3 minutes.
The purple graviton effect console, ok it's good to keep crowd control in check. It's also 3 minute cool down. Doesn't attribute much to your defense besides keeping Escorts out from optimal firing range, but if they're Omega'd they're up on you regardless.
The super laser, or what I like to call the Death Star laser, I got mine to fire at 10k dps for 12 seconds. I solo'd a tactical cube with the aid of some betas slapped onto it. True story. However, it is not OP. Getting it locked on a target with that low of turn rate is an extremely rare occurrence.
At the end of the day, in order to get this ship to work and depending on what you want to do with it, it is not ideal to run all three consoles it comes with due to the immense survivability you sacrifice with it. A very good one will work very well only if a team compliments it, otherwise it's a fancy ship but nothing special.
Definitely not OP. It needs more hull if you ask me. Bring to 31k base and it should be fine. Perhaps one of the most complicated ships to fly though...
A 1v1 between a vesta and an escort will go something like this.
*Ships get within 10km of one another and both start firing dual heavy cannons.
*Vesta uses FBP1 adding extra damage to his attack.
*Escort has to stop shooting and decides to evade using attack pattern omega 3.
*Vesta casts VM3 on the escort.
*Vesta gets within 1km and launches Danubes.
*Escort captain begins to panic as his shields are getting pummled by increasingly more powerful dual heavy cannons and he can't move an inch.
*Finally the danube tractors turn off or the captain uses another attack pattern omega and the escort is free.
*Escort gets hit by VM1
*Escort shields are breached and the ship is quickly destroyed.
*Vesta wins without even breaking a sweat.
Not realistic. "Has to stop firing when using FBP1". Seriously? FBP2 or 3, i could understand, but 1... Get a hull. Anyway, that's why good escort pilots use (chroniton) torpedoes too, their damages aren't reflected by FBP.
Why should someone evade? Just pick another target and that's fine. This pvp situation is utterly ridiculous, and while a more powerful science ship might be annoying, it's definitely not out of control, considering how well escorts can tank and are close to be permabuffed now.
If you're concerned by VM3, then wait for a month and get a maco adapted set, hot restart will solve this issue for you. Again something taken from scis. I'd call this a science nerf, and while i've choosen to stay on my recluse, I don't think the vesta is OP. It's just using annoying skills preventing you from playing the way you want on the map, which is the very meaning of science ships in STO. Enjoy!
Here are the reasons nicely laid out:-
1. Science shields - A decent science ship captin can tank really quite effectively with his small hull thanks to his huge shields (and two piece borg set if he feels so inclined).
2. Hangers - In and of itself hangers are fine, it's the pets. Peregrines etc add a small amount of extra DPS, so while annoying in PvP they aren't game breaking. Danubes on the otherhand offer the Vesta very useful crowd control tools. This isn't just a problem with the Vesta, it's also a problem with the Armitage, which is why I refuse to use them on mine.
3. Can equip dual heavy cannons - This is probably the biggest problem with the ship. It's got enough going for it that it's already an OP sci ship, the addition of dual heavy cannons however pushes it into super overpowered status. It's not like the Galaxy-x which has a poor turnrate, the vesta can turn quite quickly AND has awesome CC tools.
4. Science powers - You've given this ship nigh escort level of damage, the ability to use danubes as well as the ability to chain Viral Matrix 1&3. I can't be the only one who sees the problem with this.
Or the player could use a shield strip build, a power drain build or scramble build. Now for a normal science ship none of these would be a serious problem, but when you've got the games wizard casting spells AND swinging the games two handed mighty broadsword at the same time you've got problems.
5. Sensor Analysis - 3 dual heavy cannons and 3 turrets is already pretty damaging by itself. With sensor analysis though it'd boost that damage beyond that of an escorts.
I'm not even bringing the console powers into this one, since it's plenty overpowered without them.
So to put it simply...
Uber CC (danubes and VM) + Dual heavy cannons + sensor analysis damage buff + science tanking + turnrate = Overpowered ship that makes the bug ship look reasonable.
A 1v1 between a vesta and an escort will go something like this.
*Ships get within 10km of one another and both start firing dual heavy cannons.
*Vesta uses FBP1 adding extra damage to his attack.
*Escort has to stop shooting and decides to evade using attack pattern omega 3.
*Vesta casts VM3 on the escort.
*Vesta gets within 1km and launches Danubes.
*Escort captain begins to panic as his shields are getting pummled by increasingly more powerful dual heavy cannons and he can't move an inch.
*Finally the danube tractors turn off or the captain uses another attack pattern omega and the escort is free.
*Escort gets hit by VM1
*Escort shields are breached and the ship is quickly destroyed.
*Vesta wins without even breaking a sweat.
so I'm interpreting this post as: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA i can't two shot the ship with my escort WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
so other than the shields how is this ship any different than a klink carrier?
Comments
I see your problem and I see the solution... another 5000 zen ship set with the three piece bonus making you immune to carrier pets. Bam problem solved get your wallet ready....
This.
The ship's not even out yet and sub-par players are already screaming for a nerf. :rolleyes: If you want a game where only YOU can win, go play little big planet or some such.
Personally I'm looking forward to the Vesta because it's a jack of all trades and will require a different playstyle. Screaming 'nerf' before you've even seen one is the last resort of the unimaginative.
I can't tell are you agreeing with me.
Only way to start getting any decent level in it is to ban lockbox ships from pvp.
a periodic BO2 is spike now? oh really? didn't know that. i though spike was damage that completely overcame a shield facing in the first weapon cycle and dealt hull damage, that someone has to fire off 3 or 4 abilities to try to survive, all over about 10 seconds. not a bunch of near harmless hits and 1 hit that chunks a couple thousand shield hitpoints. the vesta will deal about 4 times as much damage as a recons, and about 8 times as much useful damage as a recons, it will deal more useful damage then nearly all fed cruisers.
the vesta comes from the factory a sci ship built like an escort. its a sci ship that has 100% of the sci debuff potential, and 3/4 an escorts damage potential. this is so much more ideal then a MVAM escort to a sci its laughable. runabout pets, sci commander station, 3 DHC running off your aux, SA, subsytem targeting, commander sci station, 2 AtB capability, masivly beter at tanking, can run EWP, can equip APO, its got everything.
i have spent far to many moments thinking about it. there is no other conclusion to come to.
its a glass cannon, it lacks runabouts and SA, its shield mod is MUCH less, its not even close to as maneuverable, etc... still a very dangerous ship of course.
stats are not misleading. if you know what they actually mean, you know exactly how dangerous something will be.
uh who are you? wanna sit in match with a coordinated team of siphon drones and think about how to overcome them?
The vesta is BS op, it's as simple as this.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I do not have any numbers of 3 dbb with bo (any maybe a weapons bat) vs 3 dhc and crf in 10sec. Would be interesting to see. I think the main prob with bo is that it doesn't always hit.
Yep it got many things. But not all at once. I would not run aux cannons and atb at the same time for example.
As for tanking, its worse than an orb or a wells/korath.
Yes it is a sci ship that could deal quite a lot of dmg. But if you run it as a sci you don't have 2/3 of an escorts dmg. You are not only missing the one DHC you are also missing buffs. If you want to run 2 atb you have to use your universal lt cmdr as eng. That means you only got CRF1 and no other attack patterns.
Also if you run a atb build you don't have many doff slots left to buff sci. Like vm doffs or tbr doffs.
Oh and you can't use subystem targeting with DHC's. Well you can mount a beam in the rear but you have to turn your cannons away to use it.
Oh and EWP, APO and 2 atb works on orb and wells/korath as well.
Well I disagree but I suppose time will tell who is right. I do hope i am right, otherwise we might be in trouble
Yes. I only wanted to point out that it sounds better on paper than it really is. I still think/hope it is the same for the vesta.
Yes and no. While being versatile is an advantage for a ship it still can't do everything at the same time. An universal doff means a choice, that is an advantage but you still only have one doff at a time. Some times things really sound more scary than they are. I say let's wait and see, test a bit and provide feedback that hopefully is not ignored.
But threads that call something "uber overpowered" before we got a chance to test something are not helping I would say.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
I can't say for certain whether the Besta can burst or not in high-stress situations... the loss of a forward weapon is a big deal, but who knows without testing it really. I would say with fair certainty that it can still at least put out a lot of pain if the player's good.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
If you had even a passing knowlage of how BO works, how DBB's vs DHC's cmpare and how even CRF1 works you'd know the anwser. DHC's have a good solid 10% more base, with even CRF1 factored in this baloons to 43%. BO inflicts a massive power drain, you cna get roudn it with a weapons bat or Aux to bat, but thats about it. In adittion it gives you at best 1 salvo at 8.5 times normal power. The catch. DBB's ar on a 2 second cycle, BO3 only raises your total salvo count from 15 to 22. Thus IF you can negate the power drain and IF you compae BO3 to CRF1 you've got parity. Go upto to CRF2, or drop to BO2 and it's not even a contest any more. The tac oddy can also mount more tac consoles than nearly any other sci ship. It's not a huge boost, (7% real terms with MkXII Very Rare wepaons and consoles), but it is there.
Thats the thing, compare it to an actual sci ship and it's leaps and bounds ahead. You can, (weithout Aux to bat spam), negate the BO power drain once every several uses. CRF has no attenden power drain and cna thus be chained repeatedly. Not only does it have a strong advantage on initial burst, but after that initial burst it can still throw a nice hard volley at you when CRF comes of CD again, the other sci options are waiting for the power booster to come up from CD. And in an initial burst vs initial burst comparision the vesta is allways going to have that deflector to smack you about with. Even if thats just another BO, (a lot weaker than i'm expecting), that will puch it's first burst potentiol up to at LEAST Defiant levels.
this type of damage dealing, its nothing. its pissing in the wind of cross heals, it accomplishes nothing on its own, you cant simply shoot someone to death when there are good healers around, and potential targets that know how to take a hit.
enter debuffing, the way kills are gotten. when someone has no functioning subsystems because of VM, no resistance running and nothing available to use because of a well timed SNB, a huge hull resistance debuff from sensor scan, is held in its own or its runabouts tractor beam so they have 0 defence score, are stuck in warp plasma and receiving a dot wile having a double hold on them that they cant dig out of, and having the damage potential of CRF1 with 3 DHCs, well let me tell you that damage will go a long way then.
see, a normal sci ship already can do all that, there are 3 that come with a LTC eng, they can set up kills easily with some or all of that afflicting a target at once, so they are easy picking for an escort. but the vesta, well it can deal so much damage on its own, and the best type of damage, true DHC spike damage, that it could potentially get these kills on its own. and if not, an escort is going to notice someone in that bad a way and shoot at the target too. 100 times i have been in this debuffed state, and all the times i survived it was by the skin of my teeth. stack another 1/4- 3/4 burst spike damage in there, and non of those times i lived would i make it out alive.
if you look at the vesta stats, and cant clearly see this play out every single time, you are inexperienced. thats all right, we all were. thats not going to change the fact that the vesta truly is uber overpowered.
sci captain uber build
3 non aux DHC, 2 crono mines, or tric mines, 1 beam array for subsytem targeting.
TT1, CRF1
EPtS1, AtB1, EWP1
EPtA1, AtB1
TSS1, HE2, ST3, VM3
TB1
runabouts
3 tech doffs, 2 vm doffs
every one of these abilities can be used at their global cooldown. never ending VM, never ending tractor hold from pets and yourself, never ending plasma hold, global TT and CRF. the only question is how long it will take for you to die, wile you are rendered completely helpless. don't for get SA, the longer you take a pounding, the more damage it will deal.
this is just the most uber thing i can think of, there are proboly at least 5-10 other builds that could completely dominate as well.
I'm they guy that rather spend time finding ways to get around issues then complain about them. I'm sorry if your the type of person that sees an issue an goes well looks like we're done. But I'm the type that goes "maybe this will work." P.s. there is a way to beat a siphon build it just makes it so one of your team mates is dps useles.
Almost exactly what I am planning to do. Im going with turrets rather than mines and I wont be using deN00b pets.
ya with the non aux canons you could run turrets too. but chrono mines, when 4 hit you over and over, can purma slow you, thier debuffs stack sequentially, not on top of each other. entertaining any idea of escaping? not gonna happen. a tric mine wile your stuck there would be good too, buffed or not, espesually if you have blasted down the faceing it will hit. for a tac captain i would proboly go with 3 turrets though for maximum tac buffed damage dealing.
APO will actually clear a chrono debuff the same why TT clears FOMM, and guard you from receiving the proc wile its active, noticed that recently and though i would share.
But I suppose you made your point.
By the way you might want to consider an ewp doff with your build. They are really nice.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
I've recommended them to drunk before but he's said he doesn't find they're necessary. I can see his point, but at the same time I love driving the knife in a little deeper when I'm in the D'Kora or whatever.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
ive been considering it, but giving up a bfi doff when im already down to 2 is a hard thing to do. what would i do without my crutch? lol
thats the only thing missin.
Do you even Science Bro?
im hoping its the vet ship and they leave it at that. part 1 the ship, part 2 the stipend, part 3 all the other perks of life time.
Next up would be Q's Winter Event with a cross-faction ship, no?
Though there had been talk of the Kumari Heavy Escort/Battlecruiser, eh?
I bet it'll be an ambassador class ship that's has a destroyer type setup.
4 fore weapon slots that can equip dual cannons.
4 rear weapon slots
Tactical variant has 360 dual heavy cannon
Engineering variant comes with a hyper-impulse engine that gives:-
+60 Attack patterns
+90 Inertial Dampers
+30 maneuvers
+40 impulse engines
Science variant has sensor analysis
(forgetting my dismal attempt at humour, I actually do like the idea of the ambassador class being a destroyer)
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Lol. Yup
But sorry...what i found OVERPOWERED in STO is some ?*"?#@ little escorts that decimated a whole team in pvp without the slightest injury or damage in their shields...
For me Escorts must be limited, they destroy totally the PVP game and STO!
How do you spell troll with a lol?
Trollol?
It is frail to say the least.
After specs+equipment, 38000 hull is very low. If you equip the three consoles, you're left with two field generator slots in science (should you run the science variant). You only have 11k and change without the field gens. With one field generator you have 13k shields, with two you have 15k and change.
Which now leaves you with 5 more consoles left. What to do.
Tactical will most likely take up your choice of weaponry. So that's 3 gone already. Engineering, 38000 hull, to reinforce or not to reinforce. Oh but you have cannons, so put a pair of RCS on there to use them. And there you go, 32 degree turn rate to fire 45 degree weapons. You can put an APO, the ship will achieve a 45 degree turn rate periodically. You could of course enhance this with AP doffs. However, the main problem still persists, 38000 hull is 1 shot juicy if you decide to use the cannons.
Yes I get it, it comes with a super shield. Viral, photonic shockwave, aux proc, tric, it's offline. Not to mention the 3 minute CD on it.
Fermion field, really nice AOE. 3 minute cool down. You have a console on your ship that does nothing for 3 minutes.
The purple graviton effect console, ok it's good to keep crowd control in check. It's also 3 minute cool down. Doesn't attribute much to your defense besides keeping Escorts out from optimal firing range, but if they're Omega'd they're up on you regardless.
The super laser, or what I like to call the Death Star laser, I got mine to fire at 10k dps for 12 seconds. I solo'd a tactical cube with the aid of some betas slapped onto it. True story. However, it is not OP. Getting it locked on a target with that low of turn rate is an extremely rare occurrence.
At the end of the day, in order to get this ship to work and depending on what you want to do with it, it is not ideal to run all three consoles it comes with due to the immense survivability you sacrifice with it. A very good one will work very well only if a team compliments it, otherwise it's a fancy ship but nothing special.
Definitely not OP. It needs more hull if you ask me. Bring to 31k base and it should be fine. Perhaps one of the most complicated ships to fly though...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yep, its as nasty as the day is long. The game version truelly lives up the the OP Mary Sue description of it from the books.
Of course it will not change, so why waste the breath on stating the truth of it?
As has already been stated by a Dev, " A little OP sells......"
R.I.P
Not realistic. "Has to stop firing when using FBP1". Seriously? FBP2 or 3, i could understand, but 1... Get a hull. Anyway, that's why good escort pilots use (chroniton) torpedoes too, their damages aren't reflected by FBP.
Why should someone evade? Just pick another target and that's fine. This pvp situation is utterly ridiculous, and while a more powerful science ship might be annoying, it's definitely not out of control, considering how well escorts can tank and are close to be permabuffed now.
If you're concerned by VM3, then wait for a month and get a maco adapted set, hot restart will solve this issue for you. Again something taken from scis. I'd call this a science nerf, and while i've choosen to stay on my recluse, I don't think the vesta is OP. It's just using annoying skills preventing you from playing the way you want on the map, which is the very meaning of science ships in STO. Enjoy!
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
so I'm interpreting this post as: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA i can't two shot the ship with my escort WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
so other than the shields how is this ship any different than a klink carrier?
Two shots? My BO3 only needs to fire off once, I call it the Car Compactor of Space :P
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Bullcrap! Its shields is maybe strong but when you start hitting hull its paper thin!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!