From what I'm hearing about season 7, it sounds like Marks only unlock the gear, you still have to purchase them. I really hope this doesn't means they get rid of the stuff from the STFs that we could trade in for Dilithium, because I got a serious hunch (with the dili tax on Fleet gear) that we are going to end up paying out more.
I'll be wholeheartedly honest, this really bothers me as much as the DOFF cost.
It took me 8 months to get my first MK12 Set, and so far only got 2 characters with the MACO and Omega MK12 Sets. My Klingon Tactical needs 2 PSGs to finally unlock the HG and Omega setas (after 11 months), which makes 6 sets.
Now with Season 7, I have to unlock those sets with Omega Marks and then PAY them in Dilithium???? Dilithium we no longer can EARN in the STFS?
People, if you ever wonder why I complain so much on the forums, well here you go. Prime Example.
It's good to hear that the dilithium changes to the doff projects are not final. The prices are way too steep for any of us to feasibly use this mechanic. I find the current holodeck prices quite reasonable. As it stands now, every ounce of dilithium on all of my characters is going toward the fleet starbase system.
I am really hoping the dilithium rewards remain in the STFs. As it stands now, this is the primary source of dilithium for my fleet. As for STF gear, please don't add a dilithium cost to obtaining the gear. I would rather run Infected Ground Elite 1000 times for one piece of gear than to spend 10,000 dilithium on the gear. The original purpose of STFs was to give players a source of dilithium. If we have to grind dilithium elsewhere and pay dilithium to get better STF gear, then the reason to do STFs disappears.
While it does happen (infrequently) that changes are made based on player feedback, more often than not, what exists on Tribble, inevitably ends up going live to Holodeck, despite the outcry from the "vocal minority" that is the forum posters.
It's ridiculous in itself, that we have to pay Dilithium for Fleet "gear" when we have to pay thousands upon thousands of Dilithium just to grind through the Fleet Starbase projects to get there. I'd be fine if they hike the "Fleet Credit" cost up on the gear, as long as they remove the need for Dilithium for said gear.
Pre-F2P, most ships cost Energy Credits. Something which became all but useless post-F2P. Instead, ships now cost Dilithium (like everything else), and the "better" ships are placed in the C-Store for real life currency.
The game IS too grindy as is, and if Season 7 rumors are true, it's about to become MORE grindy. Just what we need, right?
Star Trek has somewhat of a tradition, never lasting longer than 7 Seasons. I wonder if this might ring true for Star Trek Online as well? At this point, i'd be happy either way, since the game is in dire need of REAL fixing, and TRIBBLE around with the costs of everything you need ingame, is NOT the way to go. Well, I guess it is, if your intent is to TRIBBLE off what little customer base you might still have.
As a recent new gold subber who has started a Starbase project, i'm not impressed with the proposed changes.
When you dangle long term projects in front of people, we need to know that the goalposts are not going to get moved.
Allowing these rumors to "dangle" under the guise of feedback just allows the richer amongst us all to manipulate the markets at the expence of the rest.
Given the huge amount of DoFF's that starbases eat, restricting the flow of DoFF's into the system with additional costs is only going to make things worse.
Edited to add :-
Also timing of the LTS "sale+benefits" suddenly becomes clear.
You know, thats a really good observation that I honestly never even thought of.
There are many ways they could make the game fun and actually increase the player population and augment their coffers. But instead, it seems like PW is going with their Eastern Model of making short-lived MMOs, milk them dry, then move on to the next MMO to be milked.
So right now I have to wonder is this a smart business model in focusing on short-lived MMOs and milking them while they are "fun", or actually give players what they want and keep the ball rolling for the long term?
That probably holds true for just about Any Other Game...
But this is a Star Trek Game...,
That in and of itself should lead to a huge player-base, just because of the massive size of the over-all Trek fan-base.
Granted not every Trek fan is a online game fan, but think about it...
How many times have we seen in these very forums, people post in a thread that they never played or even had an interest in a MMO or online gaming..., until they learned that there was a Star Trek one...
I've lost count.
This is THE ONLY, large scale, corporate sponsored, Star Trek Game that is actively improving itself on a monthly basis...
Why the hell isn't it out-performing every other game out there... ???
(well, except perhaps for the Star Wars one)
What the heck does WoW have that we don't...
(feel free to list the multitude of examples below)
Isn't that just sad...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Like other posters and Brandon just refered to - Tribble is a "TEST" server - they are not only testing game mechanics - they are also testing "us" the players - what kinds of reactions we have to possible changes.
If CRYPTIC abides by their usual trend, most stuff thats on Tribble usually hit Holodeck shortly afterwards, with very mi-nute or little changes. If its on Tribble, its basically a sign of winds of change.
I'll be honest - Season 7 is making me very nervous in the direction CRYPTIC is about to take, and its a very very bad one. I never felt this bad about any season until now, and I pride myself in having very good instinct.
I think Branflakes choice to leave this thread going for feed back is a wise one. As it is a way for them not to make a mistake that could seriously damage the fanbase of the game.
It's an honorable thing what he is doing, if thats the case, and I sincerely hope that CRYPTIC take note that some of the changes they are about to make is going to do some serious damage to their fanbase. It will also severely undermine their whole Starbase System in which the majority of it, is dependent on both Common White Doffs and Dilithium. I do not mind buying Zen to convert to Dilithium if need be, but the whole doff segment is an entirely different matter, my resources are already spread thin across the playing board, with the high demand for Dilithium in every aspect of this game.
Simply put: Its too saturated, too spread out - and thats a bad thing when your resources are spread too thin on projects, ship acquisition, doff acquisiton, equipment acquisition, Zen acquisition etc...
Personally I want them to keep making money - they need to get paid and make a profit - if that stops the game stops.
I have no problem with that, otherwise I would not have bought 2 Lifer accounts, 40+ toons, most cstore ships, lock boxes for shiny, etc... but there comes a point where a company can go to far in implementing crucial changes to create a huge influx of revenue within a short term basis, making those changes the heart of the game itself.
Star Trek Online is NOT the same game I loved when it first came out. It has become something entirely different and foreign at its core, while only bearing a famous iP.
The main problem with a F2P model is that a small portion of the player base has to subsidize the whole group. There is just no way around that without making more and more micro-transactions.
In essence we get little to nothing in return while paying a severe high price. A game solely based off the Ultimate GRIND ceases to be a game and becomes a tedious second job. There are far superior and successful F2P models out there without having to go the route that PWE has forced CRYPTIC to take. We are Western gamers, NOT eastern Gamers.
Besides, I know some Korean Games that are Grind based that far more entertaining than what we currently have in STO. STO is something of a mutation, a hybrid sort of speak - West meet East mixture.
That happens when you put a large part of your life into something. Heck I even start threads sometimes just to keep the forums active and pull people out of the woodwork because talking about something is better than people grumbling in quite.
Everyone here loves the game - if you didn't you would not bother posting - so don't give up just yet.
I post because I do LOVE STO, otherwise I would not be speaking my mind about the state of the game. In the end the heart and soul of STO is its playerbase. I don't mind spending cash in something I love, but when the entirety of the game revolves around how to exploit currency and dilithium, and how to exploit its fanbase on acquiring as much revenue as possible, then there is a problem somewhere, somethingis is out of place, and CRYPTIC must review these changes closely.
As a recent new gold subber who has started a Starbase project, i'm not impressed with the proposed changes.
When you dangle long term projects in front of people, we need to know that the goalposts are not going to get moved.
Allowing these rumors to "dangle" under the guise of feedback just allows the richer amongst us all to manipulate the markets at the expence of the rest.
Given the huge amount of DoFF's that starbases eat, restricting the flow of DoFF's into the system with additional costs is only going to make things worse.
Edited to add :-
Also timing of the LTS "sale+benefits" suddenly becomes clear.
Unfortunately, the 'moving of the goalposts', has been a rather constant theme of the STO development cycles.
As posted before...
They seem to be more interested in squeezing every penny They can out of the player-base NOW...
Rather than hanging onto a very, Very large population of folks, who are willing to invest in the long-term with Them.
Go figure...
Addendum:
I'd be willing to bet that except possibly for TOR..., STO probably had one of the largest pre-beta sales of LTS in the history of online gaming...
To bad circumstances and somewhat poor development decisions, have driven many of those folks away.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Just seems like they're shifting the business model from 'Time Or Money' to 'Time And Money.' I can only speak for myself, but while the former model is fair enough for the strengths and weaknesses in this game. The latter model on the other hand....why should I spend god knows how many hours of my time doing something I've grown sick of, if at the end I still have to pay for my 'reward' besides? Thats not worth my time.
Unfortunately, the 'moving of the goalposts', has been a rather constant theme of the STO development cycles.
As posted before...
They seem to be more interested in squeezing every penny They can out of the player-base NOW...
Rather than hanging onto a very, very large population of folks, who are willing to invest in the long-term with Them.
Go figure...
DaveyNY, you hit the nail on the head. Short term profit is becoming the staple and nature of this game. It leaves me to wonder if both PWE & CRYPTIC care about Star Trek Online or for that matter the iP itself.
I have never, ever invested soo much real money in a game as I did in this one. I am a huge Star Trek fan and I have such great love for the iP. It has come to the point that for the first time in my years in playing STO, that putting a financial stop in the form of not spending real money anymore has come to my mind.
Upon reading the rumors about Season 7, it may very well be the one season that will make me completely stop playing STO on a regular basis, with maybe a monthly visit just to see whats going on and even play a foundry mission or two, but thats about it.
I cannot continue to shoulder resources to support my fleet, and equip all my 40+ toons and at the same time keep getting burden with additional STF Grindfest with little or no returns. Currently there are too many unknowns in regards to Season 7, and what is offered on Tribble is troubling.
Season 7 may be the worst season in the history of STO, and a bad sign that the game is running its course. As I mentioned before, I never spoke bad about a season before on this level. I'm just getting these bad vibes.
That totally doesn't sound like a 1%-er complaining that the recession means they won't be able to get a third yacht.
You can hypothesize all you want about my reasoning for attempting to create my own starbase...
Just don't be so damn insulting about it.
In actuality, I began it just for the fun of it, to see if I could be successful in reaching a couple of the Tiers...
Obviously, you've missed my several posts about how old I expect to be if and when I actually get to the last one...
Your attempt at being High & Mighty (which possibly counts as being a 1%-er in another much less sociable category) has most certainly backfired on you in this particular case.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That probably holds true for just about Any Other Game...
But this is a Star Trek Game...,
That in and of itself should lead to a huge player-base, just because of the massive size of the over-all Trek fan-base.
Granted not every Trek fan is a online game fan, but think about it...
How many times have we seen in these very forums, people post in a thread that they never played or even had an interest in a MMO or online gaming..., until they learned that there was a Star Trek one...
I've lost count.
This is THE ONLY, large scale, corporate sponsored, Star Trek Game that is actively improving itself on a monthly basis...
Why the hell isn't it out-performing every other game out there... ???
(well, except perhaps for the Star Wars one)
What the heck does WoW have that we don't...
(feel free to list the multitude of examples below)
Isn't that just sad...
I wouldn't say it's true of all games, because the eldest MMOs (Ultima and Everquest) are still going well after a decade. Even SWG was still around, until it was ended for sake of TOR. But now, MMOs are done within 2 years.
But yes, STO should technically be a major MMO because of the IP, yet it's not. Why is that?
If you go to conventions, a good percentage of Star Trek fans never knew STO existed. And others, didn't want to because of the negative feedback from either playing it or hearing it from others. It can only be said it's gotten worse with the Lockboxes and recent questionable actions.
Cryptic is trying hard to polish.......the game, by going to these conventions in saying "hey, it's good". Yet STO is slowly losing people. Feedback at times feels to be ignored (yes I know they read our comments, but 9/10 times the feedback isn't enacted), bugs are not fixed (we still have annoying S6 bugs still to be fixed), and their QA seems nonexistant. So that turns people off.
As I said before, there are ways they could attract people and really make the game shine bright again, but PW for some reason is preventing the eagle from taking flight by having it tied to the pedastal. Which makes us question the health this game. Are we on Titanic? Or is this a hydrofoil that's about to go full throttle?
This game has less grind than most other MMOs and it is rather easy to lvl up a an alt using doffs.
It's not the Leveling-Up that many folks around here are mindful of...
(other than it's to dang fast now)
It's really the recent inclusion of the incessant Grind and Pay ANDPay Again, that has them in somewhat of an uproar.
It should be difficult to get the best stuff in the game, most folks agree on that...,
But it shouldn't cost a player an Arm & BOTH Legs to get it.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This game has less grind than most other MMOs and it is rather easy to lvl up a an alt using doffs.
Very easy to level up alts, that is very much true - but the issue is not the leveling of alts, but the state of the game and its direction. In regards to Grinding, the future of STO has become accessive Grinding.
Someone mentioned that all MMO's have elements or some form of a Grind, and that I agree with. However; STO involves real currency behind every Zen, and Dilithium is behind every single aspect of this game. Thats where the huge difference lies.
To incorporate the Dilithium system in every detail of this games makes it almost absolute that one must grind to get any where near anything of true value.
Plz do not confuse me in regards to handing things out, thats not what I mean. I am referring to time and money invested compared to what is being offered us in return.
It's not the Leveling-Up that many folks around here are mindful of...
(other than it's to dang fast now)
It's really the recent inclusion of the incessant Grind AND Pay ANDPay Again, that has them in somewhat of an uproar.
It should be difficult to get the best stuff in the game, most folks agree on that...,
But it shouldn't cost a player an Arm & BOTH Legs to get it though.
This has nothing to do with PWI as I play another PWI game I play you can get everything for free that is in the cash shop (store).It should be the case here and everything can be sold at the auction house.
As I said before, there are ways they could attract people and really make the game shine bright again, but PW for some reason is preventing the eagle from taking flight by having it tied to the pedastal. Which makes us question the health this game. Are we on Titanic? Or is this a hydrofoil that's about to go full throttle?
Season 7 is about to answer your question and HARD.
So everyone buckle up, clench your teeth and prepare to get hit hard and fast. Only the truest and diehard of fans will survive season 7.
I fear for those medium to small fleets that are pushing hard those starbase projects - They just about eliminated anyone attempting to do a solo starbase, while making small to medium fleets crawl their way into extinction.
Season 7 just does not look good for STO, it just doesn't - I like the idea of Romulan STF etc... and even the fusing of some currency, but the negative outweigh the positive in regards to season 7.
Setting aside the issues at hand that I hate. The doff assignments and investigate officer reports could honestly use changing.
I have 6 character slots. I have the one main character, that i give all the best equipment and such. and 5 alts that I levelled to VA/LG and never play. But they do all get logged in each day, as investigate officer reports and the doff recruitment assignments allow me to feed my main character with extra resources.
The other day I realised I was making over 70 Zen a day just from officer reports and the academy quiz. I found myself thinking that maybe I should buy some more character slots. How much Zen could I make without even playing the game?
I didnt buy more character slots. And I could spend more time playing the game rather then working the game if this method of grinding out doffs and dilithium wasn?t available to me.
How would it effect the exchange rates and item prices If this mode of obtaining dilithium and doffs were eliminated?
So I say nerf the things that give us free stuff. That way the stuff we work for will be worth more. Cryptic could drop the crazy amounts of dilithium we have to pay for things, the crazy number of doffs we have to put into our starbassess. And everything would be better for every one.
But that wont happen. Cryptic will certainly nerf the supply. But I don?t see them ever decreasing demand.
I am not happy. I don?t like the way this game is going. It is getting dangerously close to the 'churn' business model.
This has nothing to do with PWI as I play another PWI game I play you can get everything for free that is in the cash shop (store).It should be the case here and everything can be sold at the auction house.
Season 7 is about to answer your question and HARD.
So everyone buckle up, clench your teeth and prepare to get hit hard and fast. Only the truest and die-hard of fans will survive season 7.
I fear for those medium to small fleets that are pushing hard those starbase projects - They just about eliminated anyone attempting to do a solo starbase, while making small to medium fleets crawl their way into extinction.
Season 7 just does not look good for STO, it just doesn't - I like the idea of Romulan STF etc... and even the fusing of some currency, but the negative outweigh the positive in regards to season 7.
I'll still be around after Season 7 hits and probably beyond...
I will just alter once again, how often that is and how much I'm willing to spend.
(both of which will probably decrease)
Up till a couple of months ago I use to play just about everyday and spend more than $100 dollars a month on STO... (even with my LTS)
Lately, I've only been in-game once or twice a week and spend less than $50...
My love for Trek hasn't decreased, just my interest in this game...
And it's not like I'm playing other games, the only other game I dabble with is MineCraft.
I have a little bit of money from each paycheck that I could put into this game, I just feel that I am no longer getting my money's worth for the amount of time and effort that is required to get the more interesting items.
I will probably continue to buy just about every Ship They put in the C/Zen Store.
Just because it's still fun to zip around the universe in them.
But STO is no longer a "passion" of mine, it's become just something to do once in a while...
I find that to be kinda-sorta depressing.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
At the end of the day it all boils down to short term income which has bothered me for a long time now. I understand that the quick cash grabs are the easiest way to make money, but in the long run it's hurting not only the game but the company as well. I'm not sure if the problem lies with PWE or Cryptic, but a lot of people who've been in this game(or champions) long term know that this is an issue that has become standard business practice there.
What was once a genuine passion for the game became possible just a grind to earn money for the devs. In both games they constantly add "great new features" that quickly get abandoned and left unfinished. They would rather slap together some lockbox rather than make content actually WORTH what they charge. Had Roddenberry still been alive and in control of trek i honestly think he would have pulled the IP because the OP is right and this has become just a bland MMO. A lot of the trek feeling and the fun and passion have been long gone. I enjoy the space combat, i like the ships, and i love the customization that Cryptic USED to put in games, but it just seems like it's all gone now, at least not without a price attached.
I don't like that they've constantly gone back on their word, not just the "promises that shouldn't have been made, made by team members who left before fulfilling them", but Even DStahl himself is on record promising a lot of stuff that never happened, or was quickly made worse. Remember cleaning up the currencies, or even better that "the game wasn't going F2P" a month before it was announced it would?
They've just announed lockboxes in CO and frankly i'm starting to see that instead of any decent content down the line we'll just see cash gab after cash grab with little to no evolution or enhancement until its too late, and it makes me worry about how Neverwinter is going to be once it launches. You know it's a bad sign when STO is appearing in those little ads on the side of facebook where the cheap games that are usually scams end up, because that's the only place i see it advertised any more.
I think once season 7 launches we're not going to get all the story content we were promised, there will be no use for fleet stuff other than a new grind for a new store, and most people will be ready for the next popular mmo. STO and CO have become, at least to me, the game i play in between better games to play just as a way to cleanse the pallet. I hate even saying that since i love Star Trek, I'm a huge superhero fan, and i love the amount of customization we used to get.
Setting aside the issues at hand that I hate. The doff assignments and investigate officer reports could honestly use changing....
The other day I realised I was making over 70 Zen a day just from officer reports and the academy quiz. I found myself thinking that maybe I should buy some more character slots. How much Zen could I make without even playing the game?
People are getting it all wrong when it comes down to the "Investigate Daily Officer report," that in and of itself is not the issue at hand, and changing it will just TRIBBLE off alot of people. Keep in mind that it is a grinding process as well and its only offered once per day per character. I say if you invested money in buying alts for that purpose, the more the merrier.
I don't see farming the Daily Officer Report as a problem or an issue, we get little in this game already, and eliminating it is only hurting the playerbase. besides, people do use it as a foundry reward, regardless of the foundry mission itself.
If anything, CRYPTIC should review those foundry missions in question, not the reward.
I didnt buy more character slots. And I could spend more time playing the game rather then working the game if this method of grinding out doffs and dilithium wasn?t available to me.
Here is the thing, someone like me with many alts may benefit from what you just suggested, which will force me to repeat missions for all my alts. However; someone with less than 4 toons and have completed the game with all 4 may find themselves at a disavantage. They may grow bored since they are at the end game. All thats left for someone like that is STF grinding and daily officer report.-
Truth is I enjoy making new toons and creating a bio for them, I do NOT enjoy playing the storyline mission for all of them once I've beaten the game with one or two toons.
How would it effect the exchange rates and item prices If this mode of obtaining dilithium and doffs were eliminated?
Simple, it will increase prices dramatically, especially when it comes to the season 7 rumors of the academy FREE doff pack from being eliminated completely and given now an option to buy it at the high cost of 1K Dilithium. The demand for doff will rise while the ability to obtain them will come at a cost - that cost is then passed on to you the virtual consumer. Someone has to make their money back after spending 1K D.
Bigger and larger fleets will be able to cash in on this exploit - Their projects are already completed - and it will hurt Solo, small, and medium fleets who are attempting to make their starbases.
Cryptic could drop the crazy amounts of dilithium we have to pay for things, the crazy number of doffs we have to put into our starbassess. And everything would be better for every one.
But that wont happen. Cryptic will certainly nerf the supply. But I don?t see them ever decreasing demand.
I am not happy. I don?t like the way this game is going. It is getting dangerously close to the 'churn' business model.
You just answered that Pandora's riddle - CRYPTIC will be happy and glad to eliminate anything that will benefit the playerbase, without making amends or changes to their system.
Only changes that CRYPTIC WILL make is changes that will solely benefit them and their profit margins.
Season 7 is about to answer your question and HARD.
So everyone buckle up, clench your teeth and prepare to get hit hard and fast. Only the truest and diehard of fans will survive season 7.
I fear for those medium to small fleets that are pushing hard those starbase projects - They just about eliminated anyone attempting to do a solo starbase, while making small to medium fleets crawl their way into extinction.
Season 7 just does not look good for STO, it just doesn't - I like the idea of Romulan STF etc... and even the fusing of some currency, but the negative outweigh the positive in regards to season 7.
Yes, this will be the ultimate test. Are they going to cross the line or they going to take a step back?
BTW, this new change will hurt large fleets as well (those Rare and VR DOFF costs will be far worse than the 1.2 Million in Dilithium). Small fleet progression will drastically slow down to a crawl, and solo fleets will stop altogether (except for the rich ones). I myself just completed Tier 2 on my Fed and KDF solo bases and was going to stop at Tier 3, but with this change, Tier 2 is far as I'm going.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
CRYPTIC needs to look at Star Trek Online from its conception during its Beta days and what it is now. They need to stare hard at its destination.
I am pretty sure there are one or two DEVS that are cringing at the state of the game, but remain silent for obvious reasons. PWE is pulling the strings at this moment, and its unknown as to who is suggesting what and where its all coming from.
I implore PWE & CRYPTIC STUDIOS to STOP killing the game that I came to enjoy and love, please stop killing it.
Review the changes that are about to be made in Season 7, reflect from the Beta days and through all the seasons that were implemented. I have nothing against the Romulan STF and even the unification of currency, or even the nerfing of the Retro-Borg set, but some of the more crucial changes in regards to doff, Dilithium rewards, and STFs makes Season 7 a very dangerous venture.
If any of these are indeed true rumors, please may we have some official word to lay these rumors to rest.
Can't say i m surprised, it seems that the FM rewards has been removed from the Foundry wrapper as well.
Fits the pattern, here is whats going to happen. We are going to get shafted once more. Devs will not comment at all, hoping to ride out the rage.
Once the rage gets to big, promises about the conversion will be made to calm down the masses, but the promises won't be kept. Just as with the S5-6 conversion.
It's a pitty how determined Cryptic is to drive out old players.
Comments
I'll be wholeheartedly honest, this really bothers me as much as the DOFF cost.
It took me 8 months to get my first MK12 Set, and so far only got 2 characters with the MACO and Omega MK12 Sets. My Klingon Tactical needs 2 PSGs to finally unlock the HG and Omega setas (after 11 months), which makes 6 sets.
Now with Season 7, I have to unlock those sets with Omega Marks and then PAY them in Dilithium???? Dilithium we no longer can EARN in the STFS?
People, if you ever wonder why I complain so much on the forums, well here you go. Prime Example.
I am really hoping the dilithium rewards remain in the STFs. As it stands now, this is the primary source of dilithium for my fleet. As for STF gear, please don't add a dilithium cost to obtaining the gear. I would rather run Infected Ground Elite 1000 times for one piece of gear than to spend 10,000 dilithium on the gear. The original purpose of STFs was to give players a source of dilithium. If we have to grind dilithium elsewhere and pay dilithium to get better STF gear, then the reason to do STFs disappears.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
It's ridiculous in itself, that we have to pay Dilithium for Fleet "gear" when we have to pay thousands upon thousands of Dilithium just to grind through the Fleet Starbase projects to get there. I'd be fine if they hike the "Fleet Credit" cost up on the gear, as long as they remove the need for Dilithium for said gear.
Pre-F2P, most ships cost Energy Credits. Something which became all but useless post-F2P. Instead, ships now cost Dilithium (like everything else), and the "better" ships are placed in the C-Store for real life currency.
The game IS too grindy as is, and if Season 7 rumors are true, it's about to become MORE grindy. Just what we need, right?
Star Trek has somewhat of a tradition, never lasting longer than 7 Seasons. I wonder if this might ring true for Star Trek Online as well? At this point, i'd be happy either way, since the game is in dire need of REAL fixing, and TRIBBLE around with the costs of everything you need ingame, is NOT the way to go. Well, I guess it is, if your intent is to TRIBBLE off what little customer base you might still have.
When you dangle long term projects in front of people, we need to know that the goalposts are not going to get moved.
Allowing these rumors to "dangle" under the guise of feedback just allows the richer amongst us all to manipulate the markets at the expence of the rest.
Given the huge amount of DoFF's that starbases eat, restricting the flow of DoFF's into the system with additional costs is only going to make things worse.
Edited to add :-
Also timing of the LTS "sale+benefits" suddenly becomes clear.
There's still hope people! It'll work out!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
That probably holds true for just about Any Other Game...
But this is a Star Trek Game...,
That in and of itself should lead to a huge player-base, just because of the massive size of the over-all Trek fan-base.
Granted not every Trek fan is a online game fan, but think about it...
How many times have we seen in these very forums, people post in a thread that they never played or even had an interest in a MMO or online gaming..., until they learned that there was a Star Trek one...
I've lost count.
This is THE ONLY, large scale, corporate sponsored, Star Trek Game that is actively improving itself on a monthly basis...
Why the hell isn't it out-performing every other game out there... ???
(well, except perhaps for the Star Wars one)
What the heck does WoW have that we don't...
(feel free to list the multitude of examples below)
Isn't that just sad...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
If CRYPTIC abides by their usual trend, most stuff thats on Tribble usually hit Holodeck shortly afterwards, with very mi-nute or little changes. If its on Tribble, its basically a sign of winds of change.
I'll be honest - Season 7 is making me very nervous in the direction CRYPTIC is about to take, and its a very very bad one. I never felt this bad about any season until now, and I pride myself in having very good instinct.
It's an honorable thing what he is doing, if thats the case, and I sincerely hope that CRYPTIC take note that some of the changes they are about to make is going to do some serious damage to their fanbase. It will also severely undermine their whole Starbase System in which the majority of it, is dependent on both Common White Doffs and Dilithium. I do not mind buying Zen to convert to Dilithium if need be, but the whole doff segment is an entirely different matter, my resources are already spread thin across the playing board, with the high demand for Dilithium in every aspect of this game.
Simply put: Its too saturated, too spread out - and thats a bad thing when your resources are spread too thin on projects, ship acquisition, doff acquisiton, equipment acquisition, Zen acquisition etc...
I have no problem with that, otherwise I would not have bought 2 Lifer accounts, 40+ toons, most cstore ships, lock boxes for shiny, etc... but there comes a point where a company can go to far in implementing crucial changes to create a huge influx of revenue within a short term basis, making those changes the heart of the game itself.
Star Trek Online is NOT the same game I loved when it first came out. It has become something entirely different and foreign at its core, while only bearing a famous iP.
In essence we get little to nothing in return while paying a severe high price. A game solely based off the Ultimate GRIND ceases to be a game and becomes a tedious second job. There are far superior and successful F2P models out there without having to go the route that PWE has forced CRYPTIC to take. We are Western gamers, NOT eastern Gamers.
Besides, I know some Korean Games that are Grind based that far more entertaining than what we currently have in STO. STO is something of a mutation, a hybrid sort of speak - West meet East mixture.
I post because I do LOVE STO, otherwise I would not be speaking my mind about the state of the game. In the end the heart and soul of STO is its playerbase. I don't mind spending cash in something I love, but when the entirety of the game revolves around how to exploit currency and dilithium, and how to exploit its fanbase on acquiring as much revenue as possible, then there is a problem somewhere, somethingis is out of place, and CRYPTIC must review these changes closely.
Unfortunately, the 'moving of the goalposts', has been a rather constant theme of the STO development cycles.
As posted before...
They seem to be more interested in squeezing every penny They can out of the player-base NOW...
Rather than hanging onto a very, Very large population of folks, who are willing to invest in the long-term with Them.
Go figure...
Addendum:
I'd be willing to bet that except possibly for TOR..., STO probably had one of the largest pre-beta sales of LTS in the history of online gaming...
To bad circumstances and somewhat poor development decisions, have driven many of those folks away.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
WHAT?? REALLY?? oh lord, that sucks.. lets see how long i am in the mood to play sto after s7 went onto holodeck..
DaveyNY, you hit the nail on the head. Short term profit is becoming the staple and nature of this game. It leaves me to wonder if both PWE & CRYPTIC care about Star Trek Online or for that matter the iP itself.
I have never, ever invested soo much real money in a game as I did in this one. I am a huge Star Trek fan and I have such great love for the iP. It has come to the point that for the first time in my years in playing STO, that putting a financial stop in the form of not spending real money anymore has come to my mind.
Upon reading the rumors about Season 7, it may very well be the one season that will make me completely stop playing STO on a regular basis, with maybe a monthly visit just to see whats going on and even play a foundry mission or two, but thats about it.
I cannot continue to shoulder resources to support my fleet, and equip all my 40+ toons and at the same time keep getting burden with additional STF Grindfest with little or no returns. Currently there are too many unknowns in regards to Season 7, and what is offered on Tribble is troubling.
Season 7 may be the worst season in the history of STO, and a bad sign that the game is running its course. As I mentioned before, I never spoke bad about a season before on this level. I'm just getting these bad vibes.
Oh no! Not your *ALT* starbase!
That totally doesn't sound like a 1%-er complaining that the recession means they won't be able to get a third yacht.
Raptr profile
You can hypothesize all you want about my reasoning for attempting to create my own starbase...
Just don't be so damn insulting about it.
In actuality, I began it just for the fun of it, to see if I could be successful in reaching a couple of the Tiers...
Obviously, you've missed my several posts about how old I expect to be if and when I actually get to the last one...
Your attempt at being High & Mighty (which possibly counts as being a 1%-er in another much less sociable category) has most certainly backfired on you in this particular case.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I wouldn't say it's true of all games, because the eldest MMOs (Ultima and Everquest) are still going well after a decade. Even SWG was still around, until it was ended for sake of TOR. But now, MMOs are done within 2 years.
But yes, STO should technically be a major MMO because of the IP, yet it's not. Why is that?
If you go to conventions, a good percentage of Star Trek fans never knew STO existed. And others, didn't want to because of the negative feedback from either playing it or hearing it from others. It can only be said it's gotten worse with the Lockboxes and recent questionable actions.
Cryptic is trying hard to polish.......the game, by going to these conventions in saying "hey, it's good". Yet STO is slowly losing people. Feedback at times feels to be ignored (yes I know they read our comments, but 9/10 times the feedback isn't enacted), bugs are not fixed (we still have annoying S6 bugs still to be fixed), and their QA seems nonexistant. So that turns people off.
As I said before, there are ways they could attract people and really make the game shine bright again, but PW for some reason is preventing the eagle from taking flight by having it tied to the pedastal. Which makes us question the health this game. Are we on Titanic? Or is this a hydrofoil that's about to go full throttle?
It's not the Leveling-Up that many folks around here are mindful of...
(other than it's to dang fast now)
It's really the recent inclusion of the incessant Grind and Pay AND Pay Again, that has them in somewhat of an uproar.
It should be difficult to get the best stuff in the game, most folks agree on that...,
But it shouldn't cost a player an Arm & BOTH Legs to get it.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Very easy to level up alts, that is very much true - but the issue is not the leveling of alts, but the state of the game and its direction. In regards to Grinding, the future of STO has become accessive Grinding.
Someone mentioned that all MMO's have elements or some form of a Grind, and that I agree with. However; STO involves real currency behind every Zen, and Dilithium is behind every single aspect of this game. Thats where the huge difference lies.
To incorporate the Dilithium system in every detail of this games makes it almost absolute that one must grind to get any where near anything of true value.
Plz do not confuse me in regards to handing things out, thats not what I mean. I am referring to time and money invested compared to what is being offered us in return.
Things are simply out of balance.
@stark2k
It may take time but so do a lot of other MMOs.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Season 7 is about to answer your question and HARD.
So everyone buckle up, clench your teeth and prepare to get hit hard and fast. Only the truest and diehard of fans will survive season 7.
I fear for those medium to small fleets that are pushing hard those starbase projects - They just about eliminated anyone attempting to do a solo starbase, while making small to medium fleets crawl their way into extinction.
Season 7 just does not look good for STO, it just doesn't - I like the idea of Romulan STF etc... and even the fusing of some currency, but the negative outweigh the positive in regards to season 7.
I have 6 character slots. I have the one main character, that i give all the best equipment and such. and 5 alts that I levelled to VA/LG and never play. But they do all get logged in each day, as investigate officer reports and the doff recruitment assignments allow me to feed my main character with extra resources.
The other day I realised I was making over 70 Zen a day just from officer reports and the academy quiz. I found myself thinking that maybe I should buy some more character slots. How much Zen could I make without even playing the game?
I didnt buy more character slots. And I could spend more time playing the game rather then working the game if this method of grinding out doffs and dilithium wasn?t available to me.
How would it effect the exchange rates and item prices If this mode of obtaining dilithium and doffs were eliminated?
So I say nerf the things that give us free stuff. That way the stuff we work for will be worth more. Cryptic could drop the crazy amounts of dilithium we have to pay for things, the crazy number of doffs we have to put into our starbassess. And everything would be better for every one.
But that wont happen. Cryptic will certainly nerf the supply. But I don?t see them ever decreasing demand.
I am not happy. I don?t like the way this game is going. It is getting dangerously close to the 'churn' business model.
I'm thinking perhaps you meant to Quote the post above mine...?
I'll still be around after Season 7 hits and probably beyond...
I will just alter once again, how often that is and how much I'm willing to spend.
(both of which will probably decrease)
Up till a couple of months ago I use to play just about everyday and spend more than $100 dollars a month on STO... (even with my LTS)
Lately, I've only been in-game once or twice a week and spend less than $50...
My love for Trek hasn't decreased, just my interest in this game...
And it's not like I'm playing other games, the only other game I dabble with is MineCraft.
I have a little bit of money from each paycheck that I could put into this game, I just feel that I am no longer getting my money's worth for the amount of time and effort that is required to get the more interesting items.
I will probably continue to buy just about every Ship They put in the C/Zen Store.
Just because it's still fun to zip around the universe in them.
But STO is no longer a "passion" of mine, it's become just something to do once in a while...
I find that to be kinda-sorta depressing.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
What was once a genuine passion for the game became possible just a grind to earn money for the devs. In both games they constantly add "great new features" that quickly get abandoned and left unfinished. They would rather slap together some lockbox rather than make content actually WORTH what they charge. Had Roddenberry still been alive and in control of trek i honestly think he would have pulled the IP because the OP is right and this has become just a bland MMO. A lot of the trek feeling and the fun and passion have been long gone. I enjoy the space combat, i like the ships, and i love the customization that Cryptic USED to put in games, but it just seems like it's all gone now, at least not without a price attached.
I don't like that they've constantly gone back on their word, not just the "promises that shouldn't have been made, made by team members who left before fulfilling them", but Even DStahl himself is on record promising a lot of stuff that never happened, or was quickly made worse. Remember cleaning up the currencies, or even better that "the game wasn't going F2P" a month before it was announced it would?
They've just announed lockboxes in CO and frankly i'm starting to see that instead of any decent content down the line we'll just see cash gab after cash grab with little to no evolution or enhancement until its too late, and it makes me worry about how Neverwinter is going to be once it launches. You know it's a bad sign when STO is appearing in those little ads on the side of facebook where the cheap games that are usually scams end up, because that's the only place i see it advertised any more.
I think once season 7 launches we're not going to get all the story content we were promised, there will be no use for fleet stuff other than a new grind for a new store, and most people will be ready for the next popular mmo. STO and CO have become, at least to me, the game i play in between better games to play just as a way to cleanse the pallet. I hate even saying that since i love Star Trek, I'm a huge superhero fan, and i love the amount of customization we used to get.
People are getting it all wrong when it comes down to the "Investigate Daily Officer report," that in and of itself is not the issue at hand, and changing it will just TRIBBLE off alot of people. Keep in mind that it is a grinding process as well and its only offered once per day per character. I say if you invested money in buying alts for that purpose, the more the merrier.
I don't see farming the Daily Officer Report as a problem or an issue, we get little in this game already, and eliminating it is only hurting the playerbase. besides, people do use it as a foundry reward, regardless of the foundry mission itself.
If anything, CRYPTIC should review those foundry missions in question, not the reward.
Here is the thing, someone like me with many alts may benefit from what you just suggested, which will force me to repeat missions for all my alts. However; someone with less than 4 toons and have completed the game with all 4 may find themselves at a disavantage. They may grow bored since they are at the end game. All thats left for someone like that is STF grinding and daily officer report.-
Truth is I enjoy making new toons and creating a bio for them, I do NOT enjoy playing the storyline mission for all of them once I've beaten the game with one or two toons.
Simple, it will increase prices dramatically, especially when it comes to the season 7 rumors of the academy FREE doff pack from being eliminated completely and given now an option to buy it at the high cost of 1K Dilithium. The demand for doff will rise while the ability to obtain them will come at a cost - that cost is then passed on to you the virtual consumer. Someone has to make their money back after spending 1K D.
Bigger and larger fleets will be able to cash in on this exploit - Their projects are already completed - and it will hurt Solo, small, and medium fleets who are attempting to make their starbases.
I say "NO," because its NOT FREE, I have to still grind for it.
What does that even mean?
You just answered that Pandora's riddle - CRYPTIC will be happy and glad to eliminate anything that will benefit the playerbase, without making amends or changes to their system.
Only changes that CRYPTIC WILL make is changes that will solely benefit them and their profit margins.
Yes, this will be the ultimate test. Are they going to cross the line or they going to take a step back?
BTW, this new change will hurt large fleets as well (those Rare and VR DOFF costs will be far worse than the 1.2 Million in Dilithium). Small fleet progression will drastically slow down to a crawl, and solo fleets will stop altogether (except for the rich ones). I myself just completed Tier 2 on my Fed and KDF solo bases and was going to stop at Tier 3, but with this change, Tier 2 is far as I'm going.
This game could've been grand, but no one has ever had the true vision to make it what it could've been.
And to add a bit of humor as well:
Remember back when this game was much younger and simpler? You could get a whole ship outfitted without spending a single penny?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Isn't the mountain of dilithium I've already inputted into projects more than enough.
(several million)
Please know, if this impedes me from building my starbase, the only goal I have in this
game, I will probably go away.
I am pretty sure there are one or two DEVS that are cringing at the state of the game, but remain silent for obvious reasons. PWE is pulling the strings at this moment, and its unknown as to who is suggesting what and where its all coming from.
I implore PWE & CRYPTIC STUDIOS to STOP killing the game that I came to enjoy and love, please stop killing it.
Review the changes that are about to be made in Season 7, reflect from the Beta days and through all the seasons that were implemented. I have nothing against the Romulan STF and even the unification of currency, or even the nerfing of the Retro-Borg set, but some of the more crucial changes in regards to doff, Dilithium rewards, and STFs makes Season 7 a very dangerous venture.
If any of these are indeed true rumors, please may we have some official word to lay these rumors to rest.
Fits the pattern, here is whats going to happen. We are going to get shafted once more. Devs will not comment at all, hoping to ride out the rage.
Once the rage gets to big, promises about the conversion will be made to calm down the masses, but the promises won't be kept. Just as with the S5-6 conversion.
It's a pitty how determined Cryptic is to drive out old players.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Hoping that's an oversight.
Extra marks really helped me not have to do Colony Invasion like a full-time job.
From the devs, it would be nice to have confirmation one way or the other.
Things are looking bad for me, I may not survive the weekend the more I read.
Already find it hard to play this game, because at avery corner you see a link to the zen store...