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Decouple TT and Redistribution
redricky
Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
Edit: decouple - to separate (joined or coupled subsystems) thereby enabling them to exist and operate separately
I brought this up in the Tac Team thread and the idea has been stuck in my head, so here goes. I'm starting my own thread because it's a bigger proposed change than just Tac Team, and I don't want fallout's thread to get crapped all over by people telling me what a dumb idea this is.
Tac Team is so powerful right now that it's really hard for a dev to touch it. It's got 3 things going for it:
1. Clearing Tac debuffs
2. Shield redistribution
3. Incredibly low cost ensign Tac slot
If we monkey with any of this, 3 things move at once. So let's remove the shield redistribution from Tac team and tie it to a doff. 3 different doffs, actually, one to add shield redistribution on each of the Team abilities.
We could start off in a place where it takes 3 purple doffs to get the current level of redistribution.*
So you have to decide which of your team powers is going to trigger your redistribution.
Sci Team 3 would become a monster, with a shield heal plus redistribution, but that Sci would still have APB and FOMM up on them, would have to choose it over TSS3 or HE3, and would only have 2 doff slots left for VM doffs, team doffs or whatever. Also, if they drop it on a teammate to clear a sub-nuc or whatever they've also given away their own redistribution.
With this change you could look at balancing the Tac debuff clear duration on Tac Team separate from the shield redistribution. And with some people running their redistribution doff on one of the other two teams it stops Cmdr boff and Captain abilities from being countered by an ensign level ability that everybody and their mother is running; so maybe duration is less of a problem when proliferation is lowered.
You could achieve the same level of defense with shield redistribution, but it costs more than the current Tac Team which makes it such a no-brainer.
*Or 1 purple doff to get to current levels, if 3 doffs seems like too high a cost. This one might have to be decided up front, since Cryptic is unwilling or unable to change doffs from max 3 to max 1.
I brought this up in the Tac Team thread and the idea has been stuck in my head, so here goes. I'm starting my own thread because it's a bigger proposed change than just Tac Team, and I don't want fallout's thread to get crapped all over by people telling me what a dumb idea this is.
Tac Team is so powerful right now that it's really hard for a dev to touch it. It's got 3 things going for it:
1. Clearing Tac debuffs
2. Shield redistribution
3. Incredibly low cost ensign Tac slot
If we monkey with any of this, 3 things move at once. So let's remove the shield redistribution from Tac team and tie it to a doff. 3 different doffs, actually, one to add shield redistribution on each of the Team abilities.
We could start off in a place where it takes 3 purple doffs to get the current level of redistribution.*
So you have to decide which of your team powers is going to trigger your redistribution.
Sci Team 3 would become a monster, with a shield heal plus redistribution, but that Sci would still have APB and FOMM up on them, would have to choose it over TSS3 or HE3, and would only have 2 doff slots left for VM doffs, team doffs or whatever. Also, if they drop it on a teammate to clear a sub-nuc or whatever they've also given away their own redistribution.
With this change you could look at balancing the Tac debuff clear duration on Tac Team separate from the shield redistribution. And with some people running their redistribution doff on one of the other two teams it stops Cmdr boff and Captain abilities from being countered by an ensign level ability that everybody and their mother is running; so maybe duration is less of a problem when proliferation is lowered.
You could achieve the same level of defense with shield redistribution, but it costs more than the current Tac Team which makes it such a no-brainer.
*Or 1 purple doff to get to current levels, if 3 doffs seems like too high a cost. This one might have to be decided up front, since Cryptic is unwilling or unable to change doffs from max 3 to max 1.
_______________
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Post edited by redricky on
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On reason the BFI doffs are so great right now is cause you can combo it with tac team.... but if it took all 5 of your doff slots to achieve that... well it might even be mostly balanced at that point.
It would be possible yes with doffs to have a high level of engi or sci team trigger the distribute on a 15 second cool down... but again at the cost of all 5 doff slots. I think that might be fine to.
If they go this way with it ... I would like to see the doff NOT be a proc chance like many others but just be a set time... like the conn officers... and I would like to see them stack to 3 and add that time to the effect... something like.
3 purples = 5 seconds each so 15 seconds total of redistribue... I think that would be fine for someone willing to commit 3 doff slots to it.
This could mean people would just slot 3 of these and run 2 copies of tac team still... but at least it would force them to drop 1 bfi doff best case... and would mean they couldn't combo up nuke doffs or ap doffs... or anything else interesting....
I like this it leaves the effect in the game for those that wish to choose it... but makes that choice have a real cost in terms of build. Good idea.
This issue isn't as bad as a healer spamming the same thing though. You now have a healer not having to burn a slot for TT and instead using ST both for healing others, and himself giving him the ability to distribute shields without wasting the TT spot. My heal builds would benefit by this in a HUGE way.
Not sure I see how that makes the mvam all that god like... in order to chain ST3 with full redistribue... they LOOSE BFI doffs completely and they also can't slot anything higher shield hot wise then transfer shield 2.... It would a powerful shield buff no doubt... but at the losse of any other doffs at all... including AP doffs that would make that Mvam a threat in anyway.
I don't know I don't see an mvam setup like that lasting all that long vs my bug for instance.
I see your point though it opens up some possibly evil combos... but they would have a massive cost at least... I mean all 5 doff slots to pull that off right.
Them LOSING bfi doffs is a good point, but that nerf is hopefully coming soon to a holodeck near you. Like I said, my heal build would be in quite a bit more powerful with this change. The ability to heal a team mate that had there distribution pulled off of them with a shield spot heal AND distrobilution would also be money. I know some healers are using TT right now with there TSS's and extends. No reason to not use a ST instead with this change.
Please understand I'm not bashing the idea because I think it has potential. It's with any change, the ability to exploit it has to be explores as well
It's rather low, compared to the shield and hull heals you get from sci and eng teams, respectively.
Indeed and agreed... it would be your heal build and others that I would be worried about is all... not the mvam.
Your right there is potential to change the game in a lot of ways...still in order for say an escort to choose to have a redistribue they would have to dump at least a couple doffs they are using now to keep things the way they have them... I think in general this would be a small buff to healing ships... and a large nerf to ships that have to much tank right now like escorts and some sci ship builds.
Not sure its the best fix either but I see some potential... and I do like that it is a change that leaves things the same for some people... and perhaps improves some builds... but at a cost. I like that... one interesting idea anyway.
Indeed this would mean they could properly fix tac team with out having to worry about it being way to good on its own... it could perhaps be given back its crew replenish ability... be given a useful buff to attack patterns, and a realistic 5 second debuff clear.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Overall these skills and ones not used for much other than one purpose where they are always chosen there needs to be a re-design where science ships and ships like the b'rel aren't give a few weeks a year of being useful and then a change to nerf them out of existence again.
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So the whiners are getting their way then? Unbelievable!
Please remember that a shield redistribution power is mandatory to play the current pve content, especially the space STFs and some fleet actions (including NWS). I can't imagine queing for infected space without it for instance. We need one, but we could use a massive decoupling of buffs, regens and anti sci powers. Such an update may require an "anti debuff" new BO, I'm not sure it's what you want to do.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
On another note, why is Tac Team 10 seconds, while Engi and Sci are 5?
If you do this, you'll ruin the game.
The purpose of my post was just to inform you all that nothing will even be considered until after Season 7 is live, at which point this power is on the list to be reviewed.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Well, when someone starts a thread called "Decouple TT and Redistribution," and a dev responds: "Tactical Team is definitely a high priority review," then, in my mind, that can only really mean one thing: we're gonna nerf the TRIBBLE out of it, and very soon!
Please, prove me wrong!
The DOFF thing - calls to mind an inverse need thing, to an extent.
TT1 - need 2 DOFFs to do everything.
TT2 - need 1 DOFF to do everything.
TT3 - no longer need DOFFs.
With other xTs, perhaps it could about the strength - etc, etc, etc. Full strength at xT3 or xT1 with 2 DOFFs.
Still, I think xT's should temporarily use crew like BP does.
Lol...the sky is falling! The sky is falling!
This is entirely the point. I see TT's benefits as too great for its low cost. Eng/cruisers won't be alone in having to make room, that applies to all classes and ships.
Nobody is talking about removing shield redistribution from the game. decouple - to separate (joined or coupled subsystems) thereby enabling them to exist and operate separately
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Well he pretty clearly stated AFTER season 7.
Come on guys, let's not start taking to arms everytime bort decides to post something to keep us updated. Would you rather he not have posted it?
We're assuming that a drastic change will be made, push to Tribble for "testing" where serious issues will be found and then released to Holodeck as is about 36 hours later. Because "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
I know, wrong IP, but it's just too apropos.
We should be trying to encourage people to survive without using RSP all the time.
Also what else are we supposed to do with ensign tac slots if TT is nerfed? this will especially TRIBBLE over ships that have excessive ensign tac slots like the Defiant, Armitage, Multivector, and Qin.
We need more enisgn tac abilities, stop trying to get the few we do have that are effective nerfed.
The nerf on RSP and ES should help a lot with the excessive healing anyway, leave TT and BFI doff alone.
Here's another game mechanic I just thought about. Healers will probably be the only ones that end up using these in a team environment.
Edit: we'll, depending on how many it takes. If its one, then escorts may take it to make the worthless ens slot worth something. If three, I cat see them choosing these