What exactly do you think was an unfinished side project that wound up in the game?
In the past 3 years, I can't even name all the unfinished things that were put into the game, half-TRIBBLE, never finished, full of bugs, only to be completed later. It's a long list.
In the past 3 years, I can't even name all the unfinished things that were put into the game, half-TRIBBLE, never finished, full of bugs, only to be completed later. It's a long list.
That doesn't mean those features were side projects.
For what it's worth, I completely agree with this. If it's an official project that PWE / Cryptic definitely will put in the game no matter what, then sweet, please tell us. (i.e. season 7 details).
However, if it's something special that "might" happen, please don't tell us until it's finished and in the pipeline already. What we don't know about won't make us sad to have missed.
That being said, it would be nice if at least some priority was given to fixing things that were only half-finished. Things like the TNG / DS9 combadges, which as of this post have been broken for about 20 months (changed in January 2011, reported broken before release to holodeck, and haven't been touched since). They're not really "bugs" in the sense that they break a mission, but they look horrible and unfinished.
I think that's what a lot of us don't like... unfinished product. We have to wait for it regardless... might as well finish it before it's released.
You are making a big mistake in this statement. You're saying work and art is the same.
Sure, if you order someone to write an instruction manual for a car, it is work. You have a number of hours assigned, and you are given all the specifications. You are adding one block on another, considering esthetical qualities, and you get a visually pleasing and instructional product. This is work.
This is silly. Every successful artist has a patron. The patron wants results. And we're not dealing with a portrait of the Pope.
If you are getting paid to do a job, then you have a job to do. I've made about 100 maps in my decade-long fanboy career as a modder. Do I take some kind of artistic pride in the end result? Sure.
It doesn't change the fact that it's a lot of stupid grunt work that demands me to stay focused on the task at hand, which is usually a crazy, repetitive, and annoying task.
If I was paid to do that grunt work, then I'd have grunt work to do, not feel somehow free to be "inspired" by watching TNG on my patron's bill.
If you're not satisfied with the game or the quality control in place, for goodness sake, don't blame it on the side projects. The alternative to the side projects is no side projects, not more work or better work on anything else.
The whole point is that, minus any work done on side projects, these people would still have or not have their jobs. At best, side projects are like extra credit assignments.
I don't get what's so hard about the idea. I wouldn't want to work for a firm the way Doctor or Kirkfat describe them working. I'd leave for a place that lets me do side projects at the first opportunity.
I don't remember in any of the 700 Day Vet Rewards Threads where it was stated that the Android Variations were a "Side Project"...
(and I've been here in the forums pretty much from the get-go so I know I haven't missed very much)
I've gone back through as many as I could find and haven't found this little tid-bit.
Actually most of the Dev discussion with us makes it seem like it was a rather important aspect of and addition to the game, at the time.
As time went on it became apparent that it had dropped off what ever They considered to be Their main priorities, but it was never stated that it wouldn't be finished or that it started out as someones pet/side-project.
(from what I can remember and discern, it became a problem child and was essentially relegated to the corner till it behaved itself.)
Anybody care to enlighten me further??
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
If you're not satisfied with the game or the quality control in place, for goodness sake, don't blame it on the side projects. The alternative to the side projects is no side projects, not more work or better work on anything else.
The whole point is that, minus any work done on side projects, these people would still have or not have their jobs. At best, side projects are like extra credit assignments.
I don't get what's so hard about the idea. I wouldn't want to work for a firm the way Doctor or Kirkfat describe them working. I'd leave for a place that lets me do side projects at the first opportunity.
I guess my point is, some of these side-projects, seem to me like they should have been main projects.
I'm a bit shocked at what has been released as a side-project, that seems like it shoulda had a higher priority.
Cryptic's project priorties, seem to be very different from what the gamers of this game, in this community, want. What we think is important or should have a higher priority, isn't necessarily shared by Cryptic. There is a disconnect between what the community wants, and what Cryptic wants.
I have to be with Kirkfat on this one. This is extra stuff that people like Heretic did on the side in addition to what they did during work time. Yes, it's working on the same game but no, it's not something that was inlcuded in the metric or was an official element of the game. It was a sanctioned 'extra' that in essence Cryptic did no invest anything into. Man hours or money since it was done outside of the normal progress of work.
Now personally I think these features should be finished but dStahl and Zinc have to make a decision between "Do we do this or this? what is mosts beneficial and provides most value for the game?"
And on a business level finishing up these features is low on the priority.
It sucks yes, and I wish they would but I can at least understand why.
I think a lot of the resentment and outright exasperation in this thread is because so many things are released half done, or problems never get fixed, or systems feel incomplete. I've been around STO a long time, and i've seen a lot of systems be released... the ONLY thing released that felt complete was the Doff System. IT felt ready to go with room to expand, not half finished. If more things would be released like this I doubt people would be up in arms about this issue at all.
Let me name a specific case: Holstered weapons. Holstered weapons are AWESOME and a great effort to bring a much wanted feature to the players, yet somehow the Omega Force Antiproton Carbine does NOT have a holstered graphic! Since its one of the nicest looking models in the game and I like to use it I can't help but label holstered weapons as incomplete. It was a while ago but I remember there was a post about it in the bugs forum section. Its still not got a holstered graphic. If its like most things that aren't fixed right away it'll probably never have one. That's just something that will remind me of Cryptic's penchant for never finishing things every time I use that weapon. Geez, its not like its an obscure weapon, its a mayor component of the STFs sets! Of course I should point out that to others its not a big deal... but these "others" can probably name a thing or two they can name off the top of their heads that feel incomplete to them. Almost every player can, and that's the problem.
Cryptic is known, company wide not just in STO, as an "almost there" developer because so often its offerings fall short of minimum expectations. They have that spark of awesome, but there's always a "but" with things.
Its a bitter pill to swallow to imagine the devs having free flex time during company hours when there's so many things still not done in the existing game. Sure, there are always "multiple teams" but as customers we really stopped caring about that excuse several seasons ago. If anything the multiple teams excuse comes off sounding as trying to avoid responsibility. What surprises me is how often it gets attributed to the devs themselves, the problem at Cryptic comes from the top. Management are the ones not utilizing people's talents and time the best way it could.
Lastly... there are artists at Cryptic to be sure, but they are not making art, they are making a product. They are working in commercial art, a product to be sold, and its a product with very serious flaws so its only natural customers would complain. Especially given how long things take to come out and how often there's disappointment mired with everything new and shiny.
I have to be with Kirkfat on this one. This is extra stuff that people like Heretic did on the side in addition to what they did during work time. Yes, it's working on the same game but no, it's not something that was inlcuded in the metric or was an official element of the game. It was a sanctioned 'extra' that in essence Cryptic did no invest anything into. Man hours or money since it was done outside of the normal progress of work.
Now personally I think these features should be finished but dStahl and Zinc have to make a decision between "Do we do this or this? what is mosts beneficial and provides most value for the game?"
And on a business level finishing up these features is low on the priority.
It sucks yes, and I wish they would but I can at least understand why.
Seems like, with this method, a bunch of time could be wasted spent working on something that never ends up being a part of the game. I guess that's why I think someone higher up should look at it, and prioritize its importance for the game. Time could be better spent working on main projects.
I think a lot of the resentment and outright exasperation in this thread is because so many things are released half done, or problems never get fixed, or systems feel incomplete. I've been around STO a long time, and i've seen a lot of systems be released... the ONLY thing released that felt complete was the Doff System. IT felt ready to go with room to expand, not half finished. If more things would be released like this I doubt people would be up in arms about this issue at all.
Its a bitter pill to swallow to imagine the devs having free flex time during company hours when there's so many things still not done in the existing game. Sure, there are always "multiple teams" but as a customer you stopped caring about that excuse several seasons ago. If anything the multiple teams excuse comes off sounding as trying to avoid responsibility.
Lastly... there are artists at Cryptic to be sure, but they are not making art, they are making a product. They are working in commercial art, a product to be sold, and its a product with very serious flaws so its only natural customers would complain.
Thank you very much, you summarized it much better than I articulate. This is the point I'm trying to make overall.
Perhaps we need to encourage and plead with the Dev's still talking to us, to develop a 'side-interest' in all the little nagging things that flounder throughout the game...
Maybe even bribe Them with Bacon and/or Cookies.
(seeing how Bacon is almost worth the price of Gas & Gold out there, it might just work)
How about in the future, They just out-right-state that what They are working on IS a 'Side/Pet Project' and avoid this whole mess to begin with.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I guess my point is, some of these side-projects, seem to me like they should have been main projects.
I'm a bit shocked at what has been released as a side-project, that seems like it shoulda had a higher priority.
Cryptic's project priorties, seem to be very different from what the gamers of this game, in this community, want. What we think is important or should have a higher priority, isn't necessarily shared by Cryptic. There is a disconnect between what the community wants, and what Cryptic wants.
That's fair and valid but what it comes down to is something most companies won't cop to.
Cryptic hires the employees Cryptic has the resources to pay for. At a certain point, you may be asking for things outside their capability.
I'd careful about the wording of the criticism because it can quickly become dumping on overworked employees when the problem is lack of employees... And the lack is probably traditionally in part due to money coming in. At a certain point, you have to get past the hype and you either like the game as it is or you don't but you have to get over the idea of expecting it to be something dramatically different from what it is already.
At a certain point, it will save you stress if you decide you either like it, warts and all, or walk away and come back to judge it later. Don't try to judge it on what it could be or might be or expect a higher aggregate level of quality.
I expect more game but I don't expect a dramatically different game or level of polish, ever. I think it's better to take that stance as a player. It's too much work as a player judge the game by what it isn't and hasn't been. Bugs will be fixed. Bugs will be introduced.
Seems like, with this method, a bunch of time could be wasted spent working on something that never ends up being a part of the game. I guess that's why I think someone higher up should look at it, and prioritize its importance for the game. Time could be better spent working on main projects.
I think the problem is treating this as work, as something your money as a customer pays for. It isn't work. It's play.
I don't remember in any of the 700 Day Vets Threads where it was stated that the Android Variations were a "Side Project"...
(and I've been here in the forums pretty much from the get-go so I know I haven't missed very much)
I've gone back through as many as I could find and haven't found this little tid-bit.
Actually most of the Dev discussion with us makes it seem like it was a rather important aspect of and addition to the game, at the time.
As time went on it became apparent that it had dropped off what ever They considered to be Their main priorities, but it was never stated that it wouldn't be finished or that it started out as someones pet/side-project.
Anybody care to enlighten me further??
This just sounds like more excuses. We've gone from no people and no cups, the PW sale, F2P transition, right back to we still don't have enough people yet, to now someone's "side projects" got dropped.
But please forgive me if I am misunderstanding the situation, I work in the real world, where they expect results.
That's fair and valid but what it comes down to is something most companies won't cop to.
Cryptic hires the employees Cryptic has the resources to pay for. At a certain point, you may be asking for things outside their capability.
I'd careful about the wording of the criticism because it can quickly become dumping on overworked employees when the problem is lack of employees... And the lack is probably traditionally in part due to money coming in. At a certain point, you have to get past the hype and you either like the game as it is or you don't but you have to get over the idea of expecting it to be something dramatically different from what it is already.
At a certain point, it will save you stress if you decide you either like it, warts and all, or walk away and come back to judge it later. Don't try to judge it on what it could be or might be or expect a higher aggregate level of quality.
I expect more game but I don't expect a dramatically different game or level of polish, ever. I think it's better to take that stance as a player. It's too much work as a player judge the game by what it isn't and hasn't been. Bugs will be fixed. Bugs will be introduced.
This just sounds like more excuses. We've gone from no people and no cups, the PW sale, F2P transition, right back to we still don't have enough people yet, to now someone's "side projects" got dropped.
But please forgive me if I am misunderstanding the situation, I work in the real world, where they expect results.
How the hell can anyone say that They don't have enough employees, when all summer long They have been touting the fact that They have hired at least20 new ones...
Granted, not all of them are probably working on STO, but still... that seems to be a rather far-fetched excuse/reason to even be discussing at this point.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
In the past 3 years, I can't even name all the unfinished things that were put into the game, half-TRIBBLE, never finished, full of bugs, only to be completed later. It's a long list.
That doesn't mean those features were side projects.
Worse yet. If those features were SCHEDULED as main projects for the game, and ended up "half-arsed", that suggests a great deal of lazyness on the part of the developers. Not for implementing the half-arsed features, but rather for not FIXING said feature after it's implementation.
I'll take a great example right here: Social Planets (Andoria, Risa, Vulcan etc)
Andoria was DESIGNED for Ushan'tor dueling, yet no dueling system currently exists in STO, and has not existed since the planet was first implemented (accessable to the general player). Risa is merely a "nice looking planet", but has no real purpose to it. I'd love to have 500 different planets in the game, but I want something to do when I get there. I'm sure you could understand that.
On the topic of the 700-day Veteran Reward, DStahl conveniently side-stepped that part entirely, in his answer. I don't see how ANY veteran reward could ever be considered a "side project", if the company is actively ADVERTISING said rewards on the homepage. I also don't buy the whole "We prioritize X features that benefit the most players, rather than the Y features that only benefit a handful". Now I have no proof of actual numbers, but I doubt it's just a "handful" who bought the Lifetime Subscription. There may not be much point in subscribing to the game anymore, but the lifetimers deserve their just rewards for having signed up for the "long haul" in the first place. Most spent around 300 dollars up front for the game. And to most, that's a rather large chunk of change.
I will agree with Taco, in that devs free time should be exactly that: Free time. But I also expect the time that is NOT free, to be alot more worthwhile and rewarding both to the developers, and to the players, for the time spent. It's nice to get new features added to the game, but it's not as nice to have to work around a bunch of bugs and glitches, because the devs thought that "good enough" was enough to push the feature to the Live server. At some point you have to finish your work.
Its a bitter pill to swallow to imagine the devs having free flex time during company hours when there's so many things still not done in the existing game. Sure, there are always "multiple teams" but as customers we really stopped caring about that excuse several seasons ago. If anything the multiple teams excuse comes off sounding as trying to avoid responsibility. What surprises me is how often it gets attributed to the devs themselves, the problem at Cryptic comes from the top. Management are the ones not utilizing people's talents and time the best way it could.
I agree with this. I'm not trying to sound like a slave driver. But, imagine what a 3rd-party efficiency expert would say.
Seems like, with this method, a bunch of time could be wasted spent working on something that never ends up being a part of the game. I guess that's why I think someone higher up should look at it, and prioritize its importance for the game. Time could be better spent working on main projects.
I think what you fail to grasp here is that their work time is spent working on assigned projects. What a dev does in his spare time is his own business; just as your off-duty time is spent playing STO, or some other game, rather then sitting in your company's office working on your regular weekly assigments.
You are trying to equate a dev's hobby time as work time and his hobby projects as work projects. They are not either. Any unassigned, hobby, projects a dev wants to do is their business and should never be considered as something supposed to be added to STO.
It is quite arrogant for you to decide how anyone's spare time should be spent. You have an absurb level of entitlement to even suggest that what someone does for fun should benefit you or not be done at all.
I guess my point is, some of these side-projects, seem to me like they should have been main projects.
I'm a bit shocked at what has been released as a side-project, that seems like it shoulda had a higher priority.
Cryptic's project priorties, seem to be very different from what the gamers of this game, in this community, want. What we think is important or should have a higher priority, isn't necessarily shared by Cryptic. There is a disconnect between what the community wants, and what Cryptic wants.
You misstated something above. I think what you meant to say was:
Cryptic's project priorties, seem to be very different from what I want. What I think is important or should have a higher priority, isn't necessarily shared by Cryptic. There is a disconnect between what I wants, and what Cryptic wants.
Don't presume to speak for the 'community' on this. If Cryptic weren't doing a good enough job, even with F2P, this game would be dead - and it's obviously doing fine as there are multiple instances and a lot of people playing on a daily basis.
As other have said, if you don't like the job they're doing, move on and find a game/passtime you actually do enjoy.
Sorry but people like you who always state their comments as if there's 100% agreement in the STO Player community - as if they are the one person who "knows" exactly what the community wants just make me laugh. Why?
There are MANY player segments that want a lot of stuff done and think the focus should be on them:
- PvPers want PvP expanded above all else.
- Klingon players want their faction completed before anything else.
- Those into the Foundry think expansion of the Foundry should be top priority; and is a viable solution to lack of Dev PvE content.
- Those with numerous Level 50ies think endgame expansion is the main thing Cryptic should be concerned about above all else.
..and I could go on.
Yes, the STO playerbase is united behind ONE vision for the game...oh, wait...
In the fantasy world of unlimited resources - yes, all the above could be done at the same time. However, in the real world, you have limited manpower and resources and have to strike a balance and do what you can with what you have. If you were the one in charge, you might indeed have a different set of priorities than DStahl; but I daresay, you'd have the same players coming after you claiming you're not listening, etc.
In the end, the best thing to do if you're dissatisfied is to vote with your wallet.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You misstated something above. I think what you meant to say was:
Don't presume to speak for the 'community' on this. If Cryptic weren't doing a good enough job, even with F2P, this game would be dead - and it's obviously doing fine as there are multiple instances and a lot of people playing on a daily basis.
As other have said, if you don't like the job they're doing, move on and find a game/passtime you actually do enjoy.
Sorry but people like you who always state their comments as if there's 100% agreement in the STO Player community - as if they are the one person who "knows" exactly what the community wants just make me laugh. Why?
There are MANY player segments that want a lot of stuff done and think the focus should be on them:
- PvPers want PvP expanded above all else.
- Klingon players want their faction completed before anything else.
- Those into the Foundry think expansion of the Foundry should be top priority; and is a viable solution to lack of Dev PvE content.
- Those with numerous Level 50ies think endgame expansion is the main thing Cryptic should be concerned about above all else.
..and I could go on.
Yes, the STO playerbase is united behind ONE vision for the game...oh, wait...
In the fantasy world of unlimited resources - yes, all the above could be done at the same time. However, in the real world, you have limited manpower and resources and have to strike a balance and do what you can with what you have. If you were the one in charge, you might indeed have a different set of priorities than DStahl; but I daresay, you'd have the same players coming after you claiming you're not listening, etc.
In the end, the best thing to do if you're dissatisfied is to vote with your wallet.
You forgot to list all the folks who want a T-5 Connie and the ones who want to be able to fly their ship from the bridge...
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'll take a great example right here: Social Planets (Andoria, Risa, Vulcan etc)
Andoria was DESIGNED for Ushan'tor dueling, yet no dueling system currently exists in STO, and has not existed since the planet was first implemented (accessable to the general player). Risa is merely a "nice looking planet", but has no real purpose to it. I'd love to have 500 different planets in the game, but I want something to do when I get there. I'm sure you could understand that.
This is the exact reason why they didn't give us the entire solar system for so long even though they had art assets for all the planets.
On the topic of the 700-day Veteran Reward, DStahl conveniently side-stepped that part entirely, in his answer. I don't see how ANY veteran reward could ever be considered a "side project", if the company is actively ADVERTISING said rewards on the homepage. I also don't buy the whole "We prioritize X features that benefit the most players, rather than the Y features that only benefit a handful". Now I have no proof of actual numbers, but I doubt it's just a "handful" who bought the Lifetime Subscription. There may not be much point in subscribing to the game anymore, but the lifetimers deserve their just rewards for having signed up for the "long haul" in the first place. Most spent around 300 dollars up front for the game. And to most, that's a rather large chunk of change.
I think there is a misconception here in that the information we were given about the 700-day vet reward was more than what it actually was.
Actual 700-day Vet reward: Male Engineering BOff with special Android abilities and some special Android costume pieces (face parts)
We got that. Official Project completed. Everyone working on it moves on to next official project on the schedule.
But that wasn't going to be satisfactory for a lot of the players. JHeinig knew it wasn't going to be satisfactory and wanted to make it better and give us more options, so he told us about his plan.
On his time not already taken up with his scheduled work, he works (along with others involved on their unscheduled time) to tie in some tech that will allow us to choose different variations of these BOffs and be able to trade them back in for one of the other variants if we want. That part is supposedly done. Unfortunately he also needs someone on the character art team on their unscheduled time to make character art assets for the other BOff variants (because male android parts and uniform items apparently cannot simply be copy/pasted to female models, and different department BOffs need different default costumes). And apparently the costume artists have had a completely full schedule for the past 7-8 months making all our other C-Store and lockbox uniforms and Tholian NPC art and models. Right now, their scheduled time is probably going into creating more NPC character art for Seasons 7 and 8 along with whatever lockbox or C-Store items come along because those bring in money and costume adjustments for vet rewards (that from their perspective is 'already finished') do not.
So what is the solution to get character art on the Android options done? Bring in more artists would be the obvious one, but that is far more difficult than the phrase would suggest. You can't simply "switch around the schedules" because there is a "needs of the many" situation here. Scheduling time for the Android costume fixes would take time away for creating art for the next season's story arc and would affect far more people than the 700-day vets. Then there's the issue that because this is a "side project", it has to be done on time not scheduled for anything else, time which 1) we're not even sure exists in any abundance and 2) requires artists to actually want to work on it over whatever other personal projects they may or may not be taking on in their own time.
So what is the solution to get character art on the Android options done? Bring in more artists would be the obvious one, but that is far more difficult than the phrase would suggest. You can't simply "switch around the schedules" because there is a "needs of the many" situation here. Scheduling time for the Android costume fixes would take time away for creating art for the next season's story arc and would affect far more people than the 700-day vets. Then there's the issue that because this is a "side project", it has to be done on time not scheduled for anything else, time which 1) we're not even sure exists in any abundance and 2) requires artists to actually want to work on it over whatever other personal projects they may or may not be taking on in their own time.
There is another solution:
Sell the Sci and Tac variants. Heck, sell all three versions of the male and female Borg BOs.
If it's worth somebody working on, it's worth paying for. I have a feeling the response to this would be "I already paid for blah, blah, blah."
And you did. You paid for something you got, shy of a billing error. The product is what it is and if you're dissatisfied, stop buying.
If somebody wants to give us more without charging for it, I'd either concentrate on being nice to them and very patient or I'd be prepared to pay money to get it on a schedule.
I've been vocal about the Relativity weapons (too good for PvP and too bad for PvE). I was set to get at least five for a full away team, saw them, and lost interest. I have issues with the opportunity cost required to acquire them versus the marginal benefit they provide. I've been very vocal about that and will continue to be. It's the equivalent of 14-16 million EC for one and they have less bling than comparable weapons.
So I'll be vocal. And I won't buy more of them and I'll make sure I express why I'd expect them to underperform relative to the cost of making them. But I'll judge everything else on its own relative merits.
I'm facebook friends with some video game devs... and I'd be a first class jerk if, when they posted photos from their weekend trip to Google HQ or a cool bar in their neighborhood, I started belittling them for taking a day off when their game had bugs.
I AM one of the players who thinks it would be great if Cryptic's production model borrowed from television. I'd like deep, story rich experiences. I'd like more of the feel of the shows brought to the game.
And I don't think that's a point you arrive at by treating the devs like third world factory workers. You get screenwriting by adopting the entertainment writer's process. That means exploration and brainstorming, not cracking the whip.
If Paramount in the 90s were run like this, Brannon Braga would have gotten hard time for writing "Threshold," until he agreed to go back and fix it. You know what that episode DID get? An EMMY, beating out DS9's "The Visitor." Granted it was a technical Emmy but that was all sci-fi shows got back then.
It's not productive to go around deciding what people deserve. I say, focus on a humane process and let people use their own time to explore. If somebody gives you something, stop trying to treat it as a consolation prize for other times they disappointed you. It's not. You're not getting one. We're in the present. We've all gotten a thousand apologies. Either you can deal with how things work or you can't but I think it's low to take it out on someone spending their free time doing something nice for you.
Man after reading some of the posts in here and the dev responses to some specific posts that were just off the wall.... no wonder these guys don't tell us anything anymore unless it's a sanitized dev blog, monthly news feature, or a direct response to something that is obviously broken.
I am not mad at the devs at all... I would feel the same way. I'm annoyed with the community and how some continually ruin it for the rest of us. It's bad enough that Massively took a post from a dev's personal account in another forum, twisted it, and ran a story that appeared to destroy most of the relationship between the devs and the community. It was a National Enquirer type TRIBBLE story as far as I am concerned and Massively lost mega credibility in my opinion. I don't even understand how they still get exclusives from time to time as I would have simply forgot they existed... but I digress.
Anyway, now we have knuckleheads continually attacking whatever is left for their own self interests. Why would any dev ever want to share anything that they could be working on in their own free time or an official project that is far out? Anytime they talk about it, they'll have to go our of their way to air quote: "*oh and this is just a side project... hehe.... /nervous_laugh" or "we don't know when we will finish this... " on the forums. Well if I were them I'd rather not say anything at all.
Then to throw even more TRIBBLE on this pile, some have the gall to sit there and tell a multi-million dollar company that they are doing it wrong, suggesting an internal work flow with management and organization practices. I understand voicing your opinion, but get real people.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
This is the exact reason why they didn't give us the entire solar system for so long even though they had art assets for all the planets.
I think there is a misconception here in that the information we were given about the 700-day vet reward was more than what it actually was.
Actual 700-day Vet reward: Male Engineering BOff with special Android abilities and some special Android costume pieces (face parts)
We got that. Official Project completed. Everyone working on it moves on to next official project on the schedule.
But that wasn't going to be satisfactory for a lot of the players. JHeinig knew it wasn't going to be satisfactory and wanted to make it better and give us more options, so he told us about his plan.
On his time not already taken up with his scheduled work, he works (along with others involved on their unscheduled time) to tie in some tech that will allow us to choose different variations of these BOffs and be able to trade them back in for one of the other variants if we want. That part is supposedly done. Unfortunately he also needs someone on the character art team on their unscheduled time to make character art assets for the other BOff variants (because male android parts and uniform items apparently cannot simply be copy/pasted to female models, and different department BOffs need different default costumes). And apparently the costume artists have had a completely full schedule for the past 7-8 months making all our other C-Store and lockbox uniforms and Tholian NPC art and models. Right now, their scheduled time is probably going into creating more NPC character art for Seasons 7 and 8 along with whatever lockbox or C-Store items come along because those bring in money and costume adjustments for vet rewards (that from their perspective is 'already finished') do not.
So what is the solution to get character art on the Android options done? Bring in more artists would be the obvious one, but that is far more difficult than the phrase would suggest. You can't simply "switch around the schedules" because there is a "needs of the many" situation here. Scheduling time for the Android costume fixes would take time away for creating art for the next season's story arc and would affect far more people than the 700-day vets. Then there's the issue that because this is a "side project", it has to be done on time not scheduled for anything else, time which 1) we're not even sure exists in any abundance and 2) requires artists to actually want to work on it over whatever other personal projects they may or may not be taking on in their own time.
I think you might wanna go back and reread Post #27 and #102 from the 700 Day Veteran Reward Thread... (made by mhighison & jheinig respectively)
We were promised from the start that we would be able to choose different versions.
There was no mention that this had been an additional project, it was delineated from the outset that this is what They had planned all along.
But then there was a 'slight glitch' (my words, not Theirs)...
Needless to say, the 'glitch' turned into a full-fledged problem that perpetrated this fiasco.
BTW: If you read all the way to post #120 you'll find that it was stated that "...all the variations are made, We just need to work out the tech limitations..." (also made by jheinig)
According to Them, this was all done before the 700 Day Vet Reward was even released...
It wasn't till afterward that They started telling us there was a problem.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yet, almost everything (especially systems) are released unfinished. I would assume that if an employee choose to stick around and work extra (since they're all probably salary), there shouldn't be a lot of time for secret projects when the most important priorities are not getting polished.
Ex: "You have earned 17 tokens" playing Colony Invasion. Clearly, someone was so time-pressed that they couldn't polish a glaring in your face typo on an otherwise polished map. I sure hope it's not because of some secret side project.
Nothing in this game sees the light of polish, especially systems and the big season specific priorities. If folks are staying extra, I'd prefer that they do the task at hand.
Amen PREACH IT BROTHER PREACH IT!
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Worse yet. If those features were SCHEDULED as main projects for the game, and ended up "half-arsed", that suggests a great deal of lazyness on the part of the developers. Not for implementing the half-arsed features, but rather for not FIXING said feature after it's implementation.
I'll take a great example right here: Social Planets (Andoria, Risa, Vulcan etc)
Andoria was DESIGNED for Ushan'tor dueling, yet no dueling system currently exists in STO, and has not existed since the planet was first implemented (accessable to the general player). Risa is merely a "nice looking planet", but has no real purpose to it. I'd love to have 500 different planets in the game, but I want something to do when I get there. I'm sure you could understand that.
On the topic of the 700-day Veteran Reward, DStahl conveniently side-stepped that part entirely, in his answer. I don't see how ANY veteran reward could ever be considered a "side project", if the company is actively ADVERTISING said rewards on the homepage. I also don't buy the whole "We prioritize X features that benefit the most players, rather than the Y features that only benefit a handful". Now I have no proof of actual numbers, but I doubt it's just a "handful" who bought the Lifetime Subscription. There may not be much point in subscribing to the game anymore, but the lifetimers deserve their just rewards for having signed up for the "long haul" in the first place. Most spent around 300 dollars up front for the game. And to most, that's a rather large chunk of change.
I will agree with Taco, in that devs free time should be exactly that: Free time. But I also expect the time that is NOT free, to be alot more worthwhile and rewarding both to the developers, and to the players, for the time spent. It's nice to get new features added to the game, but it's not as nice to have to work around a bunch of bugs and glitches, because the devs thought that "good enough" was enough to push the feature to the Live server. At some point you have to finish your work.
Bolded part at the bottom, 'tis all I'm sayin......
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
Im sorry, but you guys dont deserve 20% time. Start CONSISTENTLY releasing things with polish, and then make sure it stays shiny AFTER release too. Then come talk to me about 20% time when you've mastered the stuff we pay you to do instead of feeding us one excuse after the other why we cant get a polished Z store product and or "season" out of you for OUR hard earned dollars we plug into this game.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Why isn't Cryptic hiring MORE people to meet the demand? Running an MMO requires armies of programmers and content generators, and yet we keep hearing about how some people's pet projects are being made and passed off as content that is coming soon instead of a real project with real deadlines and hours paid to the programmer...
If its announced anywhere, its official; if its good enough to the playbase, it's a promise; and if you've not enough staff, hire more!
We're already handing over great amounts of real cash for keys, doff packs and zen in general, now what the hell is Cryptic doing with it?
I'm still playing the game because it doesn't cost me to do so, but I'm wary of further investment because frankly I'm not getting a satisfactory return on payouts made so far. Yes I'm itching for an Armitage, but I'd be more willing to spend or even buy a key if there weren't so many problems with the game.
I bought your DS9 bundle, and DNC because I loved the game, loved the ship, and hoped that STO can keep going. That faith is starting to run thin for me, and I think same for much of the player base still hanging on.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Comments
In the past 3 years, I can't even name all the unfinished things that were put into the game, half-TRIBBLE, never finished, full of bugs, only to be completed later. It's a long list.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
That doesn't mean those features were side projects.
This, thank you
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
This is silly. Every successful artist has a patron. The patron wants results. And we're not dealing with a portrait of the Pope.
If you are getting paid to do a job, then you have a job to do. I've made about 100 maps in my decade-long fanboy career as a modder. Do I take some kind of artistic pride in the end result? Sure.
It doesn't change the fact that it's a lot of stupid grunt work that demands me to stay focused on the task at hand, which is usually a crazy, repetitive, and annoying task.
If I was paid to do that grunt work, then I'd have grunt work to do, not feel somehow free to be "inspired" by watching TNG on my patron's bill.
The whole point is that, minus any work done on side projects, these people would still have or not have their jobs. At best, side projects are like extra credit assignments.
I don't get what's so hard about the idea. I wouldn't want to work for a firm the way Doctor or Kirkfat describe them working. I'd leave for a place that lets me do side projects at the first opportunity.
(and I've been here in the forums pretty much from the get-go so I know I haven't missed very much)
I've gone back through as many as I could find and haven't found this little tid-bit.
Actually most of the Dev discussion with us makes it seem like it was a rather important aspect of and addition to the game, at the time.
As time went on it became apparent that it had dropped off what ever They considered to be Their main priorities, but it was never stated that it wouldn't be finished or that it started out as someones pet/side-project.
(from what I can remember and discern, it became a problem child and was essentially relegated to the corner till it behaved itself.)
Anybody care to enlighten me further??
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I guess my point is, some of these side-projects, seem to me like they should have been main projects.
I'm a bit shocked at what has been released as a side-project, that seems like it shoulda had a higher priority.
Cryptic's project priorties, seem to be very different from what the gamers of this game, in this community, want. What we think is important or should have a higher priority, isn't necessarily shared by Cryptic. There is a disconnect between what the community wants, and what Cryptic wants.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Now personally I think these features should be finished but dStahl and Zinc have to make a decision between "Do we do this or this? what is mosts beneficial and provides most value for the game?"
And on a business level finishing up these features is low on the priority.
It sucks yes, and I wish they would but I can at least understand why.
Let me name a specific case: Holstered weapons. Holstered weapons are AWESOME and a great effort to bring a much wanted feature to the players, yet somehow the Omega Force Antiproton Carbine does NOT have a holstered graphic! Since its one of the nicest looking models in the game and I like to use it I can't help but label holstered weapons as incomplete. It was a while ago but I remember there was a post about it in the bugs forum section. Its still not got a holstered graphic. If its like most things that aren't fixed right away it'll probably never have one. That's just something that will remind me of Cryptic's penchant for never finishing things every time I use that weapon. Geez, its not like its an obscure weapon, its a mayor component of the STFs sets! Of course I should point out that to others its not a big deal... but these "others" can probably name a thing or two they can name off the top of their heads that feel incomplete to them. Almost every player can, and that's the problem.
Cryptic is known, company wide not just in STO, as an "almost there" developer because so often its offerings fall short of minimum expectations. They have that spark of awesome, but there's always a "but" with things.
Its a bitter pill to swallow to imagine the devs having free flex time during company hours when there's so many things still not done in the existing game. Sure, there are always "multiple teams" but as customers we really stopped caring about that excuse several seasons ago. If anything the multiple teams excuse comes off sounding as trying to avoid responsibility. What surprises me is how often it gets attributed to the devs themselves, the problem at Cryptic comes from the top. Management are the ones not utilizing people's talents and time the best way it could.
Lastly... there are artists at Cryptic to be sure, but they are not making art, they are making a product. They are working in commercial art, a product to be sold, and its a product with very serious flaws so its only natural customers would complain. Especially given how long things take to come out and how often there's disappointment mired with everything new and shiny.
Seems like, with this method, a bunch of time could be wasted spent working on something that never ends up being a part of the game. I guess that's why I think someone higher up should look at it, and prioritize its importance for the game. Time could be better spent working on main projects.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Thank you very much, you summarized it much better than I articulate. This is the point I'm trying to make overall.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Maybe even bribe Them with Bacon and/or Cookies.
(seeing how Bacon is almost worth the price of Gas & Gold out there, it might just work)
How about in the future, They just out-right-state that what They are working on IS a 'Side/Pet Project' and avoid this whole mess to begin with.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That's fair and valid but what it comes down to is something most companies won't cop to.
Cryptic hires the employees Cryptic has the resources to pay for. At a certain point, you may be asking for things outside their capability.
I'd careful about the wording of the criticism because it can quickly become dumping on overworked employees when the problem is lack of employees... And the lack is probably traditionally in part due to money coming in. At a certain point, you have to get past the hype and you either like the game as it is or you don't but you have to get over the idea of expecting it to be something dramatically different from what it is already.
At a certain point, it will save you stress if you decide you either like it, warts and all, or walk away and come back to judge it later. Don't try to judge it on what it could be or might be or expect a higher aggregate level of quality.
I expect more game but I don't expect a dramatically different game or level of polish, ever. I think it's better to take that stance as a player. It's too much work as a player judge the game by what it isn't and hasn't been. Bugs will be fixed. Bugs will be introduced.
I think the problem is treating this as work, as something your money as a customer pays for. It isn't work. It's play.
This just sounds like more excuses. We've gone from no people and no cups, the PW sale, F2P transition, right back to we still don't have enough people yet, to now someone's "side projects" got dropped.
But please forgive me if I am misunderstanding the situation, I work in the real world, where they expect results.
How the hell can anyone say that They don't have enough employees, when all summer long They have been touting the fact that They have hired at least 20 new ones...
Granted, not all of them are probably working on STO, but still... that seems to be a rather far-fetched excuse/reason to even be discussing at this point.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Worse yet. If those features were SCHEDULED as main projects for the game, and ended up "half-arsed", that suggests a great deal of lazyness on the part of the developers. Not for implementing the half-arsed features, but rather for not FIXING said feature after it's implementation.
I'll take a great example right here: Social Planets (Andoria, Risa, Vulcan etc)
Andoria was DESIGNED for Ushan'tor dueling, yet no dueling system currently exists in STO, and has not existed since the planet was first implemented (accessable to the general player). Risa is merely a "nice looking planet", but has no real purpose to it. I'd love to have 500 different planets in the game, but I want something to do when I get there. I'm sure you could understand that.
On the topic of the 700-day Veteran Reward, DStahl conveniently side-stepped that part entirely, in his answer. I don't see how ANY veteran reward could ever be considered a "side project", if the company is actively ADVERTISING said rewards on the homepage. I also don't buy the whole "We prioritize X features that benefit the most players, rather than the Y features that only benefit a handful". Now I have no proof of actual numbers, but I doubt it's just a "handful" who bought the Lifetime Subscription. There may not be much point in subscribing to the game anymore, but the lifetimers deserve their just rewards for having signed up for the "long haul" in the first place. Most spent around 300 dollars up front for the game. And to most, that's a rather large chunk of change.
I will agree with Taco, in that devs free time should be exactly that: Free time. But I also expect the time that is NOT free, to be alot more worthwhile and rewarding both to the developers, and to the players, for the time spent. It's nice to get new features added to the game, but it's not as nice to have to work around a bunch of bugs and glitches, because the devs thought that "good enough" was enough to push the feature to the Live server. At some point you have to finish your work.
I agree with this. I'm not trying to sound like a slave driver. But, imagine what a 3rd-party efficiency expert would say.
You are trying to equate a dev's hobby time as work time and his hobby projects as work projects. They are not either. Any unassigned, hobby, projects a dev wants to do is their business and should never be considered as something supposed to be added to STO.
It is quite arrogant for you to decide how anyone's spare time should be spent. You have an absurb level of entitlement to even suggest that what someone does for fun should benefit you or not be done at all.
You misstated something above. I think what you meant to say was:
Don't presume to speak for the 'community' on this. If Cryptic weren't doing a good enough job, even with F2P, this game would be dead - and it's obviously doing fine as there are multiple instances and a lot of people playing on a daily basis.
As other have said, if you don't like the job they're doing, move on and find a game/passtime you actually do enjoy.
Sorry but people like you who always state their comments as if there's 100% agreement in the STO Player community - as if they are the one person who "knows" exactly what the community wants just make me laugh. Why?
There are MANY player segments that want a lot of stuff done and think the focus should be on them:
- PvPers want PvP expanded above all else.
- Klingon players want their faction completed before anything else.
- Those into the Foundry think expansion of the Foundry should be top priority; and is a viable solution to lack of Dev PvE content.
- Those with numerous Level 50ies think endgame expansion is the main thing Cryptic should be concerned about above all else.
..and I could go on.
Yes, the STO playerbase is united behind ONE vision for the game...oh, wait...
In the fantasy world of unlimited resources - yes, all the above could be done at the same time. However, in the real world, you have limited manpower and resources and have to strike a balance and do what you can with what you have. If you were the one in charge, you might indeed have a different set of priorities than DStahl; but I daresay, you'd have the same players coming after you claiming you're not listening, etc.
In the end, the best thing to do if you're dissatisfied is to vote with your wallet.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You forgot to list all the folks who want a T-5 Connie and the ones who want to be able to fly their ship from the bridge...
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This is the exact reason why they didn't give us the entire solar system for so long even though they had art assets for all the planets.
I think there is a misconception here in that the information we were given about the 700-day vet reward was more than what it actually was.
Actual 700-day Vet reward: Male Engineering BOff with special Android abilities and some special Android costume pieces (face parts)
We got that. Official Project completed. Everyone working on it moves on to next official project on the schedule.
But that wasn't going to be satisfactory for a lot of the players. JHeinig knew it wasn't going to be satisfactory and wanted to make it better and give us more options, so he told us about his plan.
On his time not already taken up with his scheduled work, he works (along with others involved on their unscheduled time) to tie in some tech that will allow us to choose different variations of these BOffs and be able to trade them back in for one of the other variants if we want. That part is supposedly done. Unfortunately he also needs someone on the character art team on their unscheduled time to make character art assets for the other BOff variants (because male android parts and uniform items apparently cannot simply be copy/pasted to female models, and different department BOffs need different default costumes). And apparently the costume artists have had a completely full schedule for the past 7-8 months making all our other C-Store and lockbox uniforms and Tholian NPC art and models. Right now, their scheduled time is probably going into creating more NPC character art for Seasons 7 and 8 along with whatever lockbox or C-Store items come along because those bring in money and costume adjustments for vet rewards (that from their perspective is 'already finished') do not.
So what is the solution to get character art on the Android options done? Bring in more artists would be the obvious one, but that is far more difficult than the phrase would suggest. You can't simply "switch around the schedules" because there is a "needs of the many" situation here. Scheduling time for the Android costume fixes would take time away for creating art for the next season's story arc and would affect far more people than the 700-day vets. Then there's the issue that because this is a "side project", it has to be done on time not scheduled for anything else, time which 1) we're not even sure exists in any abundance and 2) requires artists to actually want to work on it over whatever other personal projects they may or may not be taking on in their own time.
Raptr profile
There is another solution:
Sell the Sci and Tac variants. Heck, sell all three versions of the male and female Borg BOs.
If it's worth somebody working on, it's worth paying for. I have a feeling the response to this would be "I already paid for blah, blah, blah."
And you did. You paid for something you got, shy of a billing error. The product is what it is and if you're dissatisfied, stop buying.
If somebody wants to give us more without charging for it, I'd either concentrate on being nice to them and very patient or I'd be prepared to pay money to get it on a schedule.
I've been vocal about the Relativity weapons (too good for PvP and too bad for PvE). I was set to get at least five for a full away team, saw them, and lost interest. I have issues with the opportunity cost required to acquire them versus the marginal benefit they provide. I've been very vocal about that and will continue to be. It's the equivalent of 14-16 million EC for one and they have less bling than comparable weapons.
So I'll be vocal. And I won't buy more of them and I'll make sure I express why I'd expect them to underperform relative to the cost of making them. But I'll judge everything else on its own relative merits.
I'm facebook friends with some video game devs... and I'd be a first class jerk if, when they posted photos from their weekend trip to Google HQ or a cool bar in their neighborhood, I started belittling them for taking a day off when their game had bugs.
I AM one of the players who thinks it would be great if Cryptic's production model borrowed from television. I'd like deep, story rich experiences. I'd like more of the feel of the shows brought to the game.
And I don't think that's a point you arrive at by treating the devs like third world factory workers. You get screenwriting by adopting the entertainment writer's process. That means exploration and brainstorming, not cracking the whip.
If Paramount in the 90s were run like this, Brannon Braga would have gotten hard time for writing "Threshold," until he agreed to go back and fix it. You know what that episode DID get? An EMMY, beating out DS9's "The Visitor." Granted it was a technical Emmy but that was all sci-fi shows got back then.
It's not productive to go around deciding what people deserve. I say, focus on a humane process and let people use their own time to explore. If somebody gives you something, stop trying to treat it as a consolation prize for other times they disappointed you. It's not. You're not getting one. We're in the present. We've all gotten a thousand apologies. Either you can deal with how things work or you can't but I think it's low to take it out on someone spending their free time doing something nice for you.
I am not mad at the devs at all... I would feel the same way. I'm annoyed with the community and how some continually ruin it for the rest of us. It's bad enough that Massively took a post from a dev's personal account in another forum, twisted it, and ran a story that appeared to destroy most of the relationship between the devs and the community. It was a National Enquirer type TRIBBLE story as far as I am concerned and Massively lost mega credibility in my opinion. I don't even understand how they still get exclusives from time to time as I would have simply forgot they existed... but I digress.
Anyway, now we have knuckleheads continually attacking whatever is left for their own self interests. Why would any dev ever want to share anything that they could be working on in their own free time or an official project that is far out? Anytime they talk about it, they'll have to go our of their way to air quote: "*oh and this is just a side project... hehe.... /nervous_laugh" or "we don't know when we will finish this... " on the forums. Well if I were them I'd rather not say anything at all.
Then to throw even more TRIBBLE on this pile, some have the gall to sit there and tell a multi-million dollar company that they are doing it wrong, suggesting an internal work flow with management and organization practices. I understand voicing your opinion, but get real people.
I think you might wanna go back and reread Post #27 and #102 from the 700 Day Veteran Reward Thread... (made by mhighison & jheinig respectively)
We were promised from the start that we would be able to choose different versions.
There was no mention that this had been an additional project, it was delineated from the outset that this is what They had planned all along.
But then there was a 'slight glitch' (my words, not Theirs)...
Needless to say, the 'glitch' turned into a full-fledged problem that perpetrated this fiasco.
BTW: If you read all the way to post #120 you'll find that it was stated that "...all the variations are made, We just need to work out the tech limitations..." (also made by jheinig)
According to Them, this was all done before the 700 Day Vet Reward was even released...
It wasn't till afterward that They started telling us there was a problem.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Amen PREACH IT BROTHER PREACH IT!
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Bolded part at the bottom, 'tis all I'm sayin......
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Im sorry, but you guys dont deserve 20% time. Start CONSISTENTLY releasing things with polish, and then make sure it stays shiny AFTER release too. Then come talk to me about 20% time when you've mastered the stuff we pay you to do instead of feeding us one excuse after the other why we cant get a polished Z store product and or "season" out of you for OUR hard earned dollars we plug into this game.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
You're no google. In fact, your exchange search tool really sucks.
Fix it please. "All" doesn't show the best results. I can't imagine google behaving that way.
If its announced anywhere, its official; if its good enough to the playbase, it's a promise; and if you've not enough staff, hire more!
We're already handing over great amounts of real cash for keys, doff packs and zen in general, now what the hell is Cryptic doing with it?
I'm still playing the game because it doesn't cost me to do so, but I'm wary of further investment because frankly I'm not getting a satisfactory return on payouts made so far. Yes I'm itching for an Armitage, but I'd be more willing to spend or even buy a key if there weren't so many problems with the game.
I bought your DS9 bundle, and DNC because I loved the game, loved the ship, and hoped that STO can keep going. That faith is starting to run thin for me, and I think same for much of the player base still hanging on.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!