S7 and S8 and their "renewed commitment to story" are their last chance to save me. They TRIBBLE that up, and I expect them to, Im finally giving up on this game. I'll retire my three Captains and see if Jean Luc Picard needs a few extra hands in his vineyards.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
I think they sometimes need something to grow hype around, since their own scheduled releases take so long. So they release a nugget of info on a someone's side project that they know people will like and get hype for a week or two.
As a manager myself I can tell you it's impossible to track what people do in their free time, and honestly it's none of the manager's business. Employees only owe you the time you pay them for, if they choose to work on side projects for your company in their free time you should support that. It's always better to promote entrepreneurialism, as Dstahl appears to be, as employees tend to involve you in their projects instead of fearing reprocussions and hiding it from you (or not doing it at all).
That being said, the comment made by dstahl troubles me. By itself, the comment about side projects makes sense and it valid. But take that comment in context of STO, specifically to the question asked, and it becomes misinformation. Dstahl's own words from June Ask Cryptic:
Q: (GT01) What happened to the extra Android BOFF options? We were informed that we?d not only get male and female Androids to choose from, but that we?d also have Tactical and Science branch officers to choose from too.
Dstahl: This question required some investigation to determine what happened. Turns out that at the time there was an issue that prevented those additions from happening. That issue appears to be resolved in Season 6 and so now it boils down to having one of the developers revisit this and put in the options.
From the June Ask Cryptic, we know that the project wasn't lost due to turnover, was communicated up the chain, had work done, and appears to have just been lost somewhere over the pat three months. This might indicate a failing of project management and most likely not an issue related to turnover.
Either Dstahl's response doesn't apply to the 700-day BOff or he didn't take his own advice and answered player feedback with his intentions before finding it wasn't anywhere near done.
EDIT: One more very likely explanation is that dstahl consulted his team before posting this, but wasn't able to discuss with jheinig. In which case his answer doesn't apply at all to 700 day BOff.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Yup, I agree as well. The thing is, they can never finish any of these sideline items.
I would rather they not tell us than them tell us, and then not bother finishing it.
Same goes for releasing something, finish it BEFORE you move onto the next item.
It is counter productive, unprofessional and the EP should know this. No excuse can cover this up!
I think one of the issues is that we don't know what exactly the side projects are and what are supposed to be the main projects. Because we've been let in on pretty much everything that everyone is working on, we lump it all in the same pool.
Our ship bridges and interiors? We weren't even supposed to have those. That's one of the "side projects" that came through. But that was more recognizable as a side project because we didn't know it was coming until it was there, and in some cases even told that it wasn't on their plans.
I seem to have a feeling that the Duty Officer system was also Heretic's "side project" until he got it fleshed out internally and was able to convince whoever makes the decisions on what gets officially scheduled time that it was big enough and important enough to do so.
Data Anomaly scanning minigames? Probably a side project.
I seem to recall Borticus saying that certain things in last year's Winter Event thing got in because it was something he did on his own while "waiting to be trained".
He dosnt identify a single thing as having been a side project. Just defines what a side project is and offers an explination as to why they don't get done. Obviusly the implication is there that all these things were side projects, and thats what he intends for us to assume.
To me though this is just a question dodge, plane and simple. If any side projects actualy exist they could be just two minor things we have all forgotten about long ago, and Dstahls statments would still be true.
This is just deception without lies if you ask me.
Maybe they have too many side projects, or shouldn't allow side projects at all. Perhaps if they took those side projects, and made them a main project, with purpose, goals, a time of completiion date, it would end this madness. IMO, they should not allow an unfinished side project to be put in the game, only to linger and never be finished. Finish it, then put it in the game.
Most of the good stuff we get seems to be side projects, I'm really trying to understand why they aren't made main projects, that the employee works on while at work or home or whatever, but at least has been made a main project that needs to be seen through. Side projects shouldn't exist, all projects should just be "projects" and you work on your project, you keep the manager informed on your progress, and when it's done you turn it in and it's tested and then put in-game. That is what makes sense to me.
Maybe they have too many side projects, or shouldn't allow side projects at all. Perhaps if they took those side projects, and made them a main project, with purpose, goals, a time of completiion date, it would end this madness. IMO, they should not allow an unfinished side project to be put in the game, only to linger and never be finished. Finish it, then put it in the game.
Most of the good stuff we get seems to be side projects, I'm really trying to understand why they aren't made main projects, that the employee works on while at work or home or whatever, but at least has been made a main project that needs to be seen through. Side projects shouldn't exist, all projects should just be "projects" and you work on your project, you keep the manager informed on your progress, and when it's done you turn it in and it's tested and then put in-game. That is what makes sense to me.
So what should employees do with flex time when managers are in a meeting or at home? Clock out?
You're treating this like a factory or a job. That's not how creative firms work. It's like saying that Steve Carrell shouldn't improv lines in an Anchorman movie because that's working off the clock.
So what should employees do with flex time when managers are in a meeting or at home? Clock out?
You're treating this like a factory or a job.
That's because it is a job. If someone is working on stuff off the clock, then we shouldn't hear about it until it's being put into the game. Office hours should be on officially sanctioned projects that Stahl himself has assigned people.
So what should employees do with flex time when managers are in a meeting or at home? Clock out?
You're treating this like a factory or a job. That's not how creative firms work. It's like saying that Steve Carrell shouldn't improv lines in an Anchorman movie because that's working off the clock.
Well if they are at work, at their desk, they continueu to work on the projects. They don't stop working and have free time when a manager goes into a meeting, that's not how the real-world works, people keep working on the things they have to keep working on while at work. If an employee ever runs out of work while at work, it is the managers fault for not managing that person's work load.
Therefore, any free, creative ideas people have to add things into the game, these ideas should be brought to the manager, and the manager should prioritize what the employee works on. There should be a goal, a purpose, and an estimated time of completion with all projects, on the clock or not. If they want to work at home on the project, off the clock, that's fine, but they need to report in to the manager on their progress when they get back to the office and let the manager know where they stand with the project. The manager should know all projects that are going on at all times, and manage people's work loads.
I'm a manager myself, I have 2 people that work under me. I also work from home. It's hard, but at all times I have to know what my people are doing, what projects they are working on, their progress, and their estimated time of completion. Then I have to keep the boss informed of this information, he wants to know when the projects date/time they will be completed, so I have to keep him informed of that. If something changes, I have to tell him immediatly right then. I manage myself, and my editors workloads. Every project is a main project, every project that is approved has to be completed.
I think there is some confusion on how work works at work. . . er, at Cryptic.
We have core hours. Core hours is a block of about 7 hours in the middle of the day, to ensure people are there so people can schedule meetings and such. We have to be at work between those hours. However, you also have to work a full shift (8 hours). If core hours is 7 hours, and most people take roughly an hour lunch, that means you have 2 more hours to work. You can do that whenever you want during the day. You can come in early, and leave at the end of the core block. Or you can come in at the start of the core block, and leave later. You can skip lunch and only need an hour on one end or another.
In reality, some people come in past core hours start, and work much later. Some people, like myself, come in very early, and work to the end of core hours. For the most part, no one cares when you come and go, so long as your (assigned) work gets done, and you are there for any meetings you're scheduled for. Overall, I would guess most people average more than 8 hours on the clock in a day.
Once you've completed your requisite 8 hours though, you are technically on your own time. Sometimes people go home. Sometimes they play games. Sometimes they continue to work on their assigned task. And sometimes they work on a side project.
Side projects are things that person X, feels strongly about. Something they want to see in game, but isn't on the schedule, and isn't likely to get scheduled time for various reasons. Sometimes (like the latest Powerhouse revamp in Champions) something starts as a side project, and once the person can demonstrate how beneficial it will be in game, they can get it on the official schedule.
90%+ of the time, these side projects are NOT worked on within a person's prescribed work day. The few times this happens is usually because the person cannot proceed on the assigned task until something/someone else finishes their task. This creates a bubble in the schedule, which needs to be filled. The vast majority of the time, these bubbles are small, and can be filled with shuffling the tasks around such that Person X works on what he was going to work on next, until the first thing is ready for him again. Very rarely, if that's not possible, a side project might be worked on during work hours.
Many people have side/pet projects they are working on. Most of them you do not hear about. Even more of them are things that are just being kicked around in that person's head, as something they'd like to do.
Keep in mind, most of these side projects are done in time when that person could/should be spending with their family, reading, relaxing, playing games, etc. These are things that someone wanted to see done badly enough, that they are sacrificing their personal time to make it happen. No time is taken away from assigned tasks to get the side project done.
When someone leaves, they don't always communicate their intent for their side projects (or even mention all of them to everyone). There are calls in this thread to just assign someone else to Person X's side project. Anyone you would potentially assign, A) Already has a full load of proper work tasks, May already have their own side projects in the works, C) May prefer to spend their personal time doing something else. You could potentially turn the original side project into a work assignment, but that requires shuffling an already full schedule around, or pushing that side project out to the end of the schedule.
I assume this whole, entire thread is mostly in regards to the 700-day Android Veteran Reward? A reward that is only available to players that have been subscribed for almost two years? If so, I must refer to Rule #2. Some features are more important to the broader playerbase than others. I think it was assumed that jheinig would eventually return to the office; if not, than this pet project would have been handed off to another person. But in the grand scope of things, adding features that everyone can use will always trump adding features only a handful of players can use.
So sayeth this particular Career Officer.
Edit: Thanks for the additional insight tacofangs
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
That's because it is a job. If someone is working on stuff off the clock, then we shouldn't hear about it until it's being put into the game. Office hours should be on officially sanctioned projects that Stahl himself has assigned people.
So... A college professor should be doing what exactly during his office hours, assuming lesson plans and grading is on track?
Flex time and giving people space to have options regarding how they're productive are a staple of a creative workplace. It's not a factory.
And while I can agree it's a mistake to advertise some stuff, it's either stuff like that or nothing beyond patch notes the night before a season release on Tribble.
Dan walks around. He says, "Hey... I was wondering if you heard that we're... Whoa! What are you working on?"
"Oh. I was waiting for you to get out of the production meeting and I whipped this test up. I've been using my flex time to design TOS style Gorn. See how they have four fingers?"
And Dan thinks its cool and drops that four fingered Gorn are being investigated.
Nobody knows what the guy did to eliminate the extra finger on Gorn... And he gets hit by a bus. It happens.
It seems the crux of the matter to me is communication, not knowing all projects that are being worked on, their information and progress, and prioritizing projects properly for each person.
I propose this solution: A method to where everyone at Cryptic in the company can post their name, their projects being worked on, info on the project, their progress, and their estimated time of completion. Everyone in the office, including the manager, can read this central database of info, to see what everyone is working on, and can then prioritize the projects. I'm sure everyone at Cryptic sits behind a computer in their cubicle or office, so, a central computer database of all projects in motion that everyone can access, read, and write to, seems like the solution.
Let's take an example, meet Tom Baker, Tom Baker is great at making new maps and levels in games. Tom Baker has been assigned already to make some maps and levels for Season 7. Now, Tom Baker, in his off time, has a great idea about a new map that is not related to the main projects going on. Ok, awesome. Now, what Tom Baker does is that he updates the central database with this new project title, his ideas about it, it's goals, where he thinks it might fit in the game, and his progress on doing it, and how long it will take him to work on it, weeks, days, whatever.
Now, the Manager comes in for the day, accesses the central database of projects being worked on, sits down, studies it, and sees that Tom Baker has started a new project on his off time, he reads about it, and likes it. In this scenario the manager walks over to Tom Baker's desk and talks to him about his new project. The manager decides ok, this is awesome, let's set that project as a priority for you, and your other stuff is a lower priority. Keep the database updated on your progress, and let's figure out when we can complete it, let me know of your ETA for completion. ___________OR__________ The other option is that the manager comes over to Tom Baker's desk, talks about the project, and says so here's the deal, I like it, but right now I need you to put a higher priority on your main projects being done for Season 7. These need to be completed first, and your new project is of a lower priority. Now, you are welcome to work on it in your free time, off hours, if you chose. Just keep the database updated on your progress with it, so everyone knows what's going on.
Tada, everybody in the office can access the database, everyone knows what every project is being worked on. Most of all, the Manager knows what projects are being worked on, their info, their goals, their purpose, their progress, and their ETA. Then, the manager can prioritize projects appropriately. Everyone is in the know, and all information is available to employees so that everyone is on the same page.
Removing intrinsic reward is not a good thing. It turns a hobby into a chore. I'm sure you could ask CapnLogan about this subject. Actually, you can't, because this happened to him and he went elsewhere. For most creative types, when such things occur, they'd probably ask that it get put on the (already full) official schedule, or just not do the project altogether and find a different enjoyable activity. Adding the onus of datatracking and managerial oversight would be about as enjoyable as a root canal to most creative endeavors.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
It seems the crux of the matter to me is communication, not knowing all projects that are being worked on, their information and progress, and prioritizing projects properly for each person.
I propose this solution: A method to where everyone at Cryptic in the company can post their name, their projects being worked on, info on the project, their progress, and their estimated time of completion. Everyone in the office, including the manager, can read this central database of info, to see what everyone is working on, and can then prioritize the projects. I'm sure everyone at Cryptic sits behind a computer in their cubicle or office, so, a central computer database of all projects in motion that everyone can access, read, and write to, seems like the solution.
Let's take an example, meet Tom Baker, Tom Baker is great at making new maps and levels in games. Tom Baker has been assigned already to make some maps and levels for Season 7. Now, Tom Baker, in his off time, has a great idea about a new map that is not related to the main projects going on. Ok, awesome. Now, what Tom Baker does is that he updates the central database with this new project title, his ideas about it, it's goals, where he thinks it might fit in the game, and his progress on doing it, and how long it will take him to work on it, weeks, days, whatever.
Now, the Manager comes in for the day, accesses the central database of projects being worked on, sits down, studies it, and sees that Tom Baker has started a new project on his off time, he reads about it, and likes it. In this scenario the manager walks over to Tom Baker's desk and talks to him about his new project. The manager decides ok, this is awesome, let's set that project as a priority for you, and your other stuff is a lower priority. Keep the database updated on your progress, and let's figure out when we can complete it, let me know of your ETA for completion. ___________OR__________ The other option is that the manager comes over to Tom Baker's desk, talks about the project, and says so here's the deal, I like it, but right now I need you to put a higher priority on your main projects being done for Season 7. These need to be completed first, and your new project is of a lower priority. Now, you are welcome to work on it in your free time, off hours, if you chose. Just keep the database updated on your progress with it, so everyone knows what's going on.
Tada, everybody in the office can access the database, everyone knows what every project is being worked on. Most of all, the Manager knows what projects are being worked on, their info, their goals, their purpose, their progress, and their ETA. Then, the manager can prioritize projects appropriately. Everyone is in the know, and all information is available to employees so that everyone is on the same page.
Now tell me that isn't a good thing.
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
Yeaahhhhh... You forgot to use the new cover pages on your TPS reports.
Seriously tho, that sounds like the best policy on personal side-projects. Don't ask, don't tell.
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
I agree 100% with this, with the caveat that I think the game needs to keep in the news cycle, which is why I keep trying to pitch rapid content delivery systems. The side projects should stay side but I think it would be handy if there was a free aspect of the game that could be updated enough and generate enough buzz that nobody feels the need to leak side projects to keep buzz high.
This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
Wow. I admit that I don't know much about the industry. But I do have a job. A lot of us do. Probably every one of us have schedules and expectations to meet. We are judged on our productivity. When we fail, there are consequences. It's not something we can quietly sweep under the rub during the 3 hours a day when we're allowed to work on secret projects like farmville.
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
I agree Mr. T. Fangs, let personal things stay aside until when/if they develop into something worthwhile. Good policy.
Wow. I admit that I don't know much about the industry. But I do have a job. A lot of us do. Probably every one of us have schedules and expectations to meet. We are judged on our productivity. When we fail, there are consequences. It's not something we can quietly sweep under the rub during the 3 hours a day when we're allowed to work on secret projects like farmville.
You are aware he was referring to his personal side projects that are in no way on any sort of official schedule in any capacity, right? If something he was scheduled to do, like an Ushaan arena or something, fails spectacularly, smart money says he's gonna get a stern talking-to.
Meanwhile, if his personal time-sink pet project involving a dancing Mugato in a a top hat in a new Bajor night club flops, no one cares but him. Nor should they, because the only reason he was working on it to start with was because his other work was done.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
taco, this peeked my interests. What is a "side project", that you designed to fruition, that we are playing now?
[SIGPIC]Handle: @kirian_darkstar
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC] Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Wow. I admit that I don't know much about the industry. But I do have a job. A lot of us do. Probably every one of us have schedules and expectations to meet. We are judged on our productivity. When we fail, there are consequences. It's not something we can quietly sweep under the rub during the 3 hours a day when we're allowed to work on secret projects like farmville.
The difference is that they're doing the work they're paid to do.
I'll give you a standard example at a job.
I worked in restaurants a lot. One night, I was covering a hostess' shift. It was an unscheduled shift so I couldn't have been compelled to work it but I chose to. Then my manager asked me to stay until the Brinks truck came for the cash deposit. I didn't have to but, again, I did.
If none of these extra projects are required, it's not a failure if they don't get done. The employees could go home. They chose to stay.
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
The problem is, you are putting unfinished side-projects into the game, before they are finished.
I don't want unfinished things in this game, done half way, then put in, and stated to complete it later. As a gamer, I can't accept that. We have to hold you guys to a higher standard. This MMO, from the start, was supposed to be a different kind of MMO. We have to hold up a certain level of quality, and let you know what our expectations are in terms of quality of this game. It's important to us.
If you come up something cool in your flex time, that's great, but tell someone about it, the manager should know about all side projects going on so he knows what to look forward to. Don't put these things created in flext time into the game until they are ready.
And finally, I feel that the things Cryptic is prioritizing again, doesn't mesh with what the gamers what for this game. It was shocking news to me that vet rewards are a side-project, I would have thought that would have been a main project. I was shocked to see how many things put into the game are side-projects, and not given a greater priority.
Wow. I admit that I don't know much about the industry. But I do have a job. A lot of us do. Probably every one of us have schedules and expectations to meet. We are judged on our productivity. When we fail, there are consequences. It's not something we can quietly sweep under the rub during the 3 hours a day when we're allowed to work on secret projects like farmville.
You are making a big mistake in this statement. You're saying work and art is the same.
Sure, if you order someone to write an instruction manual for a car, it is work. You have a number of hours assigned, and you are given all the specifications. You are adding one block on another, considering esthetical qualities, and you get a visually pleasing and instructional product. This is work.
On the other hand, you can not tell a writer to present you a story with a unique plot that noone has thought of before, you can not give him the same confinements. You can not decide who the characters are, how funny or sad it should be, or how long it should take. If you do, you what you get is assembly-line writing. Soap opera quality. If you give the artist free reins, however, there is a chance inspiration will strike him! He will make something noone expected, something you could never have ordered, because what you order is limited by your imagination! The less constraints the artist has, the better the chance is that he will deliver something unique!
(This is one of the reasons why many of historys greatest artists have been using drugs. They liberate themself from all constraints, even that of their own flesh, and that way, in that freedom, something unique is born! Just think about Jimmy Hendrix or Curt Cobain. If they were set work 9 to 5 producing music, would we even know their names?)
In essence, this is the difference between the instruction manual for your microwave oven, and the novel 1984. One is work, the other is art. One is produced, the other is born.
This goes for all art. Designing computer games is no exception. To paint a truely great picture, you need two things. Inspiration, and skill with a paint brush. In computer game design, you need inspiration and coding/modeling skill.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
For what it's worth, I completely agree with this. If it's an official project that PWE / Cryptic definitely will put in the game no matter what, then sweet, please tell us. (i.e. season 7 details).
However, if it's something special that "might" happen, please don't tell us until it's finished and in the pipeline already. What we don't know about won't make us sad to have missed.
That being said, it would be nice if at least some priority was given to fixing things that were only half-finished. Things like the TNG / DS9 combadges, which as of this post have been broken for about 20 months (changed in January 2011, reported broken before release to holodeck, and haven't been touched since). They're not really "bugs" in the sense that they break a mission, but they look horrible and unfinished.
I think that's what a lot of us don't like... unfinished product. We have to wait for it regardless... might as well finish it before it's released.
The difference is that they're doing the work they're paid to do.
I'll give you a standard example at a job.
I worked in restaurants a lot. One night, I was covering a hostess' shift. It was an unscheduled shift so I couldn't have been compelled to work it but I chose to. Then my manager asked me to stay until the Brinks truck came for the cash deposit. I didn't have to but, again, I did.
If none of these extra projects are required, it's not a failure if they don't get done. The employees could go home. They chose to stay.
Yet, almost everything (especially systems) are released unfinished. I would assume that if an employee chose to stick around and work extra (since they're all probably salary), there shouldn't be a lot of time for secret projects when the most important priorities are not getting polished.
Ex: "You have earned 17 tokens" playing Colony Invasion. Clearly, someone was so time-pressed that they couldn't polish a glaring in your face typo on an otherwise polished map. I sure hope it's not because of some secret side project.
Nothing in this game sees the light of polish, especially systems and the big season specific priorities. If folks are staying extra, I'd prefer that they do the task at hand.
Comments
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Yup, I agree as well. The thing is, they can never finish any of these sideline items.
I would rather they not tell us than them tell us, and then not bother finishing it.
Same goes for releasing something, finish it BEFORE you move onto the next item.
It is counter productive, unprofessional and the EP should know this. No excuse can cover this up!
That being said, the comment made by dstahl troubles me. By itself, the comment about side projects makes sense and it valid. But take that comment in context of STO, specifically to the question asked, and it becomes misinformation. Dstahl's own words from June Ask Cryptic:
From the June Ask Cryptic, we know that the project wasn't lost due to turnover, was communicated up the chain, had work done, and appears to have just been lost somewhere over the pat three months. This might indicate a failing of project management and most likely not an issue related to turnover.
Either Dstahl's response doesn't apply to the 700-day BOff or he didn't take his own advice and answered player feedback with his intentions before finding it wasn't anywhere near done.
EDIT: One more very likely explanation is that dstahl consulted his team before posting this, but wasn't able to discuss with jheinig. In which case his answer doesn't apply at all to 700 day BOff.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
I think one of the issues is that we don't know what exactly the side projects are and what are supposed to be the main projects. Because we've been let in on pretty much everything that everyone is working on, we lump it all in the same pool.
Our ship bridges and interiors? We weren't even supposed to have those. That's one of the "side projects" that came through. But that was more recognizable as a side project because we didn't know it was coming until it was there, and in some cases even told that it wasn't on their plans.
I seem to have a feeling that the Duty Officer system was also Heretic's "side project" until he got it fleshed out internally and was able to convince whoever makes the decisions on what gets officially scheduled time that it was big enough and important enough to do so.
Data Anomaly scanning minigames? Probably a side project.
I seem to recall Borticus saying that certain things in last year's Winter Event thing got in because it was something he did on his own while "waiting to be trained".
Raptr profile
Also, I appreciate the new music tracks in S6, which appears to be a side project.
He dosnt identify a single thing as having been a side project. Just defines what a side project is and offers an explination as to why they don't get done. Obviusly the implication is there that all these things were side projects, and thats what he intends for us to assume.
To me though this is just a question dodge, plane and simple. If any side projects actualy exist they could be just two minor things we have all forgotten about long ago, and Dstahls statments would still be true.
This is just deception without lies if you ask me.
Most of the good stuff we get seems to be side projects, I'm really trying to understand why they aren't made main projects, that the employee works on while at work or home or whatever, but at least has been made a main project that needs to be seen through. Side projects shouldn't exist, all projects should just be "projects" and you work on your project, you keep the manager informed on your progress, and when it's done you turn it in and it's tested and then put in-game. That is what makes sense to me.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
So what should employees do with flex time when managers are in a meeting or at home? Clock out?
You're treating this like a factory or a job. That's not how creative firms work. It's like saying that Steve Carrell shouldn't improv lines in an Anchorman movie because that's working off the clock.
That's because it is a job. If someone is working on stuff off the clock, then we shouldn't hear about it until it's being put into the game. Office hours should be on officially sanctioned projects that Stahl himself has assigned people.
Well if they are at work, at their desk, they continueu to work on the projects. They don't stop working and have free time when a manager goes into a meeting, that's not how the real-world works, people keep working on the things they have to keep working on while at work. If an employee ever runs out of work while at work, it is the managers fault for not managing that person's work load.
Therefore, any free, creative ideas people have to add things into the game, these ideas should be brought to the manager, and the manager should prioritize what the employee works on. There should be a goal, a purpose, and an estimated time of completion with all projects, on the clock or not. If they want to work at home on the project, off the clock, that's fine, but they need to report in to the manager on their progress when they get back to the office and let the manager know where they stand with the project. The manager should know all projects that are going on at all times, and manage people's work loads.
I'm a manager myself, I have 2 people that work under me. I also work from home. It's hard, but at all times I have to know what my people are doing, what projects they are working on, their progress, and their estimated time of completion. Then I have to keep the boss informed of this information, he wants to know when the projects date/time they will be completed, so I have to keep him informed of that. If something changes, I have to tell him immediatly right then. I manage myself, and my editors workloads. Every project is a main project, every project that is approved has to be completed.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
We have core hours. Core hours is a block of about 7 hours in the middle of the day, to ensure people are there so people can schedule meetings and such. We have to be at work between those hours. However, you also have to work a full shift (8 hours). If core hours is 7 hours, and most people take roughly an hour lunch, that means you have 2 more hours to work. You can do that whenever you want during the day. You can come in early, and leave at the end of the core block. Or you can come in at the start of the core block, and leave later. You can skip lunch and only need an hour on one end or another.
In reality, some people come in past core hours start, and work much later. Some people, like myself, come in very early, and work to the end of core hours. For the most part, no one cares when you come and go, so long as your (assigned) work gets done, and you are there for any meetings you're scheduled for. Overall, I would guess most people average more than 8 hours on the clock in a day.
Once you've completed your requisite 8 hours though, you are technically on your own time. Sometimes people go home. Sometimes they play games. Sometimes they continue to work on their assigned task. And sometimes they work on a side project.
Side projects are things that person X, feels strongly about. Something they want to see in game, but isn't on the schedule, and isn't likely to get scheduled time for various reasons. Sometimes (like the latest Powerhouse revamp in Champions) something starts as a side project, and once the person can demonstrate how beneficial it will be in game, they can get it on the official schedule.
90%+ of the time, these side projects are NOT worked on within a person's prescribed work day. The few times this happens is usually because the person cannot proceed on the assigned task until something/someone else finishes their task. This creates a bubble in the schedule, which needs to be filled. The vast majority of the time, these bubbles are small, and can be filled with shuffling the tasks around such that Person X works on what he was going to work on next, until the first thing is ready for him again. Very rarely, if that's not possible, a side project might be worked on during work hours.
Many people have side/pet projects they are working on. Most of them you do not hear about. Even more of them are things that are just being kicked around in that person's head, as something they'd like to do.
Keep in mind, most of these side projects are done in time when that person could/should be spending with their family, reading, relaxing, playing games, etc. These are things that someone wanted to see done badly enough, that they are sacrificing their personal time to make it happen. No time is taken away from assigned tasks to get the side project done.
When someone leaves, they don't always communicate their intent for their side projects (or even mention all of them to everyone). There are calls in this thread to just assign someone else to Person X's side project. Anyone you would potentially assign, A) Already has a full load of proper work tasks,
Hope that clarifies some.
So sayeth this particular Career Officer.
Edit: Thanks for the additional insight tacofangs
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
So... A college professor should be doing what exactly during his office hours, assuming lesson plans and grading is on track?
Flex time and giving people space to have options regarding how they're productive are a staple of a creative workplace. It's not a factory.
And while I can agree it's a mistake to advertise some stuff, it's either stuff like that or nothing beyond patch notes the night before a season release on Tribble.
Dan walks around. He says, "Hey... I was wondering if you heard that we're... Whoa! What are you working on?"
"Oh. I was waiting for you to get out of the production meeting and I whipped this test up. I've been using my flex time to design TOS style Gorn. See how they have four fingers?"
And Dan thinks its cool and drops that four fingered Gorn are being investigated.
Nobody knows what the guy did to eliminate the extra finger on Gorn... And he gets hit by a bus. It happens.
These are salary creative jobs.
I propose this solution: A method to where everyone at Cryptic in the company can post their name, their projects being worked on, info on the project, their progress, and their estimated time of completion. Everyone in the office, including the manager, can read this central database of info, to see what everyone is working on, and can then prioritize the projects. I'm sure everyone at Cryptic sits behind a computer in their cubicle or office, so, a central computer database of all projects in motion that everyone can access, read, and write to, seems like the solution.
Let's take an example, meet Tom Baker, Tom Baker is great at making new maps and levels in games. Tom Baker has been assigned already to make some maps and levels for Season 7. Now, Tom Baker, in his off time, has a great idea about a new map that is not related to the main projects going on. Ok, awesome. Now, what Tom Baker does is that he updates the central database with this new project title, his ideas about it, it's goals, where he thinks it might fit in the game, and his progress on doing it, and how long it will take him to work on it, weeks, days, whatever.
Now, the Manager comes in for the day, accesses the central database of projects being worked on, sits down, studies it, and sees that Tom Baker has started a new project on his off time, he reads about it, and likes it. In this scenario the manager walks over to Tom Baker's desk and talks to him about his new project. The manager decides ok, this is awesome, let's set that project as a priority for you, and your other stuff is a lower priority. Keep the database updated on your progress, and let's figure out when we can complete it, let me know of your ETA for completion. ___________OR__________ The other option is that the manager comes over to Tom Baker's desk, talks about the project, and says so here's the deal, I like it, but right now I need you to put a higher priority on your main projects being done for Season 7. These need to be completed first, and your new project is of a lower priority. Now, you are welcome to work on it in your free time, off hours, if you chose. Just keep the database updated on your progress with it, so everyone knows what's going on.
Tada, everybody in the office can access the database, everyone knows what every project is being worked on. Most of all, the Manager knows what projects are being worked on, their info, their goals, their purpose, their progress, and their ETA. Then, the manager can prioritize projects appropriately. Everyone is in the know, and all information is available to employees so that everyone is on the same page.
Now tell me that isn't a good thing.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
The point of allowing people side projects is to nurture creativity and passion, to allow people to follow their intrinsic motivations.
That's like taking the company softball team and telling people their bonus and chances for a raise rest on their batting average.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Congratulations, you just killed all of the fun and creativity people put into their personal work. No one would ever use said system, and no one would ever do anything worthwhile again.
I know I'm going to sound like some snooty artiste here, but seriously, if you want someone's best work, you let them do what they really want to do. In this case, it's their own time, so no manager should be involved AT ALL, until it is put on the actual schedule, or the person breaks something.
Google has this down. Google employees have what's called 20% Time. 20% of their work time, they can devote to whatever they feel like doing. That means, one day a week they can do what they want to (within the confines of work). Some of Google's best projects have come out of this process.
I wish we could do that at Cryptic. I think we would get some amazing things. The idea has been tossed around a bit, but always casually. I don't expect it to happen.
I think the real solution is to continue as we have, but not tell any of you what we're doing.
This is how I work. I do have side projects I've worked on. I don't tell the players. Hell, I don't even tell my lead until I have something that I think is workable. This is my personal approach because I hate having the pressure of expectations on me. I would rather work on something quietly by myself, and if/when it becomes awesome, I'll announce it to the world. If it fails miserably, it fails miserably, quietly.
Yeaahhhhh... You forgot to use the new cover pages on your TPS reports.
Seriously tho, that sounds like the best policy on personal side-projects. Don't ask, don't tell.
I agree 100% with this, with the caveat that I think the game needs to keep in the news cycle, which is why I keep trying to pitch rapid content delivery systems. The side projects should stay side but I think it would be handy if there was a free aspect of the game that could be updated enough and generate enough buzz that nobody feels the need to leak side projects to keep buzz high.
Wow. I admit that I don't know much about the industry. But I do have a job. A lot of us do. Probably every one of us have schedules and expectations to meet. We are judged on our productivity. When we fail, there are consequences. It's not something we can quietly sweep under the rub during the 3 hours a day when we're allowed to work on secret projects like farmville.
I agree Mr. T. Fangs, let personal things stay aside until when/if they develop into something worthwhile. Good policy.
You are aware he was referring to his personal side projects that are in no way on any sort of official schedule in any capacity, right? If something he was scheduled to do, like an Ushaan arena or something, fails spectacularly, smart money says he's gonna get a stern talking-to.
Meanwhile, if his personal time-sink pet project involving a dancing Mugato in a a top hat in a new Bajor night club flops, no one cares but him. Nor should they, because the only reason he was working on it to start with was because his other work was done.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Ah, so it's off the clock, then. Sorry I misunderstood.
taco, this peeked my interests. What is a "side project", that you designed to fruition, that we are playing now?
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
The difference is that they're doing the work they're paid to do.
I'll give you a standard example at a job.
I worked in restaurants a lot. One night, I was covering a hostess' shift. It was an unscheduled shift so I couldn't have been compelled to work it but I chose to. Then my manager asked me to stay until the Brinks truck came for the cash deposit. I didn't have to but, again, I did.
If none of these extra projects are required, it's not a failure if they don't get done. The employees could go home. They chose to stay.
The problem is, you are putting unfinished side-projects into the game, before they are finished.
I don't want unfinished things in this game, done half way, then put in, and stated to complete it later. As a gamer, I can't accept that. We have to hold you guys to a higher standard. This MMO, from the start, was supposed to be a different kind of MMO. We have to hold up a certain level of quality, and let you know what our expectations are in terms of quality of this game. It's important to us.
If you come up something cool in your flex time, that's great, but tell someone about it, the manager should know about all side projects going on so he knows what to look forward to. Don't put these things created in flext time into the game until they are ready.
And finally, I feel that the things Cryptic is prioritizing again, doesn't mesh with what the gamers what for this game. It was shocking news to me that vet rewards are a side-project, I would have thought that would have been a main project. I was shocked to see how many things put into the game are side-projects, and not given a greater priority.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
You are making a big mistake in this statement. You're saying work and art is the same.
Sure, if you order someone to write an instruction manual for a car, it is work. You have a number of hours assigned, and you are given all the specifications. You are adding one block on another, considering esthetical qualities, and you get a visually pleasing and instructional product. This is work.
On the other hand, you can not tell a writer to present you a story with a unique plot that noone has thought of before, you can not give him the same confinements. You can not decide who the characters are, how funny or sad it should be, or how long it should take. If you do, you what you get is assembly-line writing. Soap opera quality. If you give the artist free reins, however, there is a chance inspiration will strike him! He will make something noone expected, something you could never have ordered, because what you order is limited by your imagination! The less constraints the artist has, the better the chance is that he will deliver something unique!
(This is one of the reasons why many of historys greatest artists have been using drugs. They liberate themself from all constraints, even that of their own flesh, and that way, in that freedom, something unique is born! Just think about Jimmy Hendrix or Curt Cobain. If they were set work 9 to 5 producing music, would we even know their names?)
In essence, this is the difference between the instruction manual for your microwave oven, and the novel 1984. One is work, the other is art. One is produced, the other is born.
This goes for all art. Designing computer games is no exception. To paint a truely great picture, you need two things. Inspiration, and skill with a paint brush. In computer game design, you need inspiration and coding/modeling skill.
For what it's worth, I completely agree with this. If it's an official project that PWE / Cryptic definitely will put in the game no matter what, then sweet, please tell us. (i.e. season 7 details).
However, if it's something special that "might" happen, please don't tell us until it's finished and in the pipeline already. What we don't know about won't make us sad to have missed.
That being said, it would be nice if at least some priority was given to fixing things that were only half-finished. Things like the TNG / DS9 combadges, which as of this post have been broken for about 20 months (changed in January 2011, reported broken before release to holodeck, and haven't been touched since). They're not really "bugs" in the sense that they break a mission, but they look horrible and unfinished.
I think that's what a lot of us don't like... unfinished product. We have to wait for it regardless... might as well finish it before it's released.
What exactly do you think was an unfinished side project that wound up in the game?
Yet, almost everything (especially systems) are released unfinished. I would assume that if an employee chose to stick around and work extra (since they're all probably salary), there shouldn't be a lot of time for secret projects when the most important priorities are not getting polished.
Ex: "You have earned 17 tokens" playing Colony Invasion. Clearly, someone was so time-pressed that they couldn't polish a glaring in your face typo on an otherwise polished map. I sure hope it's not because of some secret side project.
Nothing in this game sees the light of polish, especially systems and the big season specific priorities. If folks are staying extra, I'd prefer that they do the task at hand.