Despite being a major doffer i am completely ignorant to this subnuke doff. Can someone explain where to find it? What specialty is it under? How do you recognize it?
Despite being a major doffer i am completely ignorant to this subnuke doff. Can someone explain where to find it? What specialty is it under? How do you recognize it?
Thx
Energy Weapons Officers, such as Muaza Ammansor (think I mispelled that), the Xindi Aquatic is one example of the DOFF in question. There are others, same class who do the same thing on both sides, Fed and KDF. They're ultra rare DOFFs technically.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Well said. You can't make a good PvP pilot/build by throwing every new console and Doff onto a ship and face smashing the keyboard repeatedly.
Husanakx has it here: use superior tactics or lose. Not at all simple, but well worth the effort. If someone can't get past not being able to mash spacebar the hardest to win, they either need better training or don't belong in STO PvP.
Husanak offered obvious solutions... "Get a better team." This problem that I am having is not about that. Even in a, "Good team," situation, the only saving grace to killing a target with stacked mitigation is to SubNuc them... this is bad.
you really believe that? So they made a subnuc doff and couldnt simply adjust the healing in this game a bit? Cmon. Rediculous statement.
Its a solution yes, but a very crappy solution, no crappy PvPer really gets better by using them, pvp is more then equipping effective chance based factors to your ship in order to gain yourself a nice advantage.
Adding anything chance based with such a powerful effect (simply adding the best science captain skill to your build at random activation) is just stupid and won't add to the value and integrity of PvP, there could've been other solutions.
Are you even reading my posts?
My point is that removing the band-aid without healing the wound leaves a loss of blood to be incurred... aka nerfing the subnuc doff without tackling the major healing/mitigations in the game will just leave players wanting for some kind of buff removal, (non-sci.)
Healing/mitigation needs to be looked at. As does the SubNuc DOFF and not the former before the latter.
The argument of, "get a better team or stop PVPing," is not conducive to getting more people into PVP. Normal players have zero chance of getting through stacked mitigation and healing.
Energy Weapons Officers, such as Muaza Ammansor (think I mispelled that), the Xindi Aquatic is one example of the DOFF in question. There are others, same class who do the same thing on both sides, Fed and KDF. They're ultra rare DOFFs technically.
Does it say subnuke in its description of ability? Are they from assignments or packs? I looked under energy weapons purples and did not see any.
/quit PVP... seriously there are other better things I can do with my time... it's in a bad state.
The stacked healing/mitigation is too much, but solo mitigation is too minimal against high damage enemies.
It's ridiculous... so either you pop instantly, or you are unkillable, as I said. The ONLY solution is some kind of buff strip to kill the unkillables, but then solo targets pop even more quickly thanks to this BANDAID solution... THIS is the problem.
My point is that removing the band-aid without healing the wound leaves a loss of blood to be incurred... aka nerfing the subnuc doff without tackling the major healing/mitigations in the game will just leave players wanting for some kind of buff removal, (non-sci.)
Healing/mitigation needs to be looked at. As does the SubNuc DOFF and not the former before the latter.
The argument of, "get a better team or stop PVPing," is not conducive to getting more people into PVP. Normal players have zero chance of getting through stacked mitigation and healing.
This guy goes into the doctor with a broken leg. He start freaking out when he sees the doctor pull out a small sledge hammer. When he asks what the hell its for, the doctor says he's going to break the other leg to keep him balanced. The guy tells him why not just fix my broken leg, but the doctor tells him maybe later when he has the time. For now, just breaking the other leg will be faster.
This guy goes into the doctor with a broken leg. He start freaking out when he sees the doctor pull out a small sledge hammer. When he asks what the hell its for, the doctor says he's going to break the other leg to keep him balanced. The guy tells him why not just fix my broken leg, but the doctor tells him maybe later when he has the time. For now, just breaking the other leg will be faster.
No, that solves nothing. It would provide me with the one shot buff removal, however, it does not solve the problem for other people who don't choose to re-roll as a Sci captain.
Also, if everyone made this choice then the entire populace would be Sci captains just because of this silly problem.
I don't expect any thing to change regarding this problem, to be honest. I am quite jaded at this point. But, I suppose, perhaps, it is possible... at some future time when there is another skill re-work.
Husanak offered obvious solutions... "Get a better team." This problem that I am having is not about that. Even in a, "Good team," situation, the only saving grace to killing a target with stacked mitigation is to SubNuc them... this is bad.
Why is this bad ? Please explain that one. lol
In every MMO ever made...
if you go into a team pvp game with out a healer you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game and the other team has a good debuffer and you don't you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game with out enough dps you get wasted hard.
Why is it so hard to accept that you need to bring a well rounded team.
Is subnuke anymore powerful then attack pattern alpha? I don't think so.
Also I don't know how many high end pvp games you have been in but... a subnuke is no guarantee of a kill either. A good team will throw some more buffs on the subnuke victim and sci team the cool down spike off... and roll on like nothing happened.
Even Subnukes need to be timed properly.
I really don't mean this to sound rude... but your complaining about a game you don't understand.
Subnuke is a captain skill... anything even remotely similer to its effects should stay that way. YOU HAVE TO BRING A sci to do well in high end pvp .... that is not flawed design.
For the same reasons I hate the new Nadion like DEM doff... it steps on the toes of the engi captain and that doff should never have been created either.
Captian powers are unique and should be powerful enough and IMPORTANT enough to a team that no doff should in anyway get even close to replacing them.
Doffs in general need a few small tweeks...
Shield distros need there numbers cut in half.
SunNuke doffs need either to be deleted or be dialed back in a major way.
The DEM doff although not that great cause frankly nadion isn't that great.. shouldn't exist.
Ourside of those issues the doffs are an interesting add to the pvp meta game and are fine.
As far as stacking mitigation... Believe it or not I think it is 100% fine as it is. Yes if you get an extends from the team healer, a hazards and transfer shield strength from the team sci.. and a tac team and delta from the team escort... YOU SHOULD BE UNKILLABLE. Switch freaking targets people. Stop focusing on one target all the time. All the squawking about mitigation comes from people that haven't seemed to figure out how to switch targets and how to fake out heals. Its part of the game and a fun part at that.
I heard that but I did not notice anything in description that mentioned subnuke - maybe I missed it.
Do they help at all against PvE npc's? For my sci toon will they do anything against the borg?
They might knock a Borg FAW or HYT off now and again and can take out their fast shield-redistribute/regen ability, but to be honest, you're not gonna see much use out of them in PvE. They are not worth the 20 mil per DOff price for PvE, to be frank. They're actually yet another case of an item or power being underpowered/weak in PvE and overpowered/lulzy in PvP.
If you're having trouble with content or simply looking for ways to maximize your current Ship/Captain's ability to go through it, getting help with your BOff powers, consoles, and gear is a much better place to start and will pay out big in the long run.
No, that solves nothing. It would provide me with the one shot buff removal, however, it does not solve the problem for other people who don't choose to re-roll as a Sci captain.
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.
I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.
Its a team game...
Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....
However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....
Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?
Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
They might knock a Borg FAW or HYT off now and again and can take out their fast shield-redistribute/regen ability, but to be honest, you're not gonna see much use out of them in PvE. They are not worth the 20 mil per DOff price for PvE, to be frank. They're actually yet another case of an item or power being underpowered/weak in PvE and overpowered/lulzy in PvP.
If you're having trouble with content or simply looking for ways to maximize your current Ship/Captain's ability to go through it, getting help with your BOff powers, consoles, and gear is a much better place to start and will pay out big in the long run.
thanks. I am not a PvPer and don't plan to be so I will ignore the sub.
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.
I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.
Its a team game...
Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....
However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....
Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?
Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
I understand what you are saying, however, a pre-made is always going to stomp a pub... that is not the issue.
The comparison that you are making between STO PVP and a game of chess is just strange... STO PVP is not like chess because both sides in the match never begin on equal grounds.
If STO PVP were like a game of chess, when a pawn attempted to take another pawn, a knight would put up 2 buffs onto the pawn, the pawn would buff itself, and the capturing pawn would be like, "WTF, no matter what I do I can't take a piece because all of the other pieces buff and heal it!" Then, the only recourse would be some type of buff strip... this is bad.
im really not sure what you are on about. healing really isent all that op to need uber doffs. if you cant kill your stacked target maybe take all look at your own buld and what your team is doing. could just be 1 massive combo of p2w consoles. or the sdo. as it was said focus fire used to be the best option. maybe if you tryed to switch to the healer and kill him you would be better off then the 1 escourt that just got all the heals from the healer and possby few from the team. many times im in pvp pug and an escourt could be in trouble and the healer combined with me (escourt) will send out heals as well. if you see the healer send the target all its heals just switch to him. healing is not op. its team work that is op.
what is the problem is that healers dont get aux drain so they pump wep power past 125 for thoes 8 beams. maybe if other classes got system drain like tacts it would blance everything out better.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
In every MMO ever made...
if you go into a team pvp game with out a healer you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game and the other team has a good debuffer and you don't you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game with out enough dps you get wasted hard.
Why is it so hard to accept that you need to bring a well rounded team.
Is subnuke anymore powerful then attack pattern alpha? I don't think so.
Also I don't know how many high end pvp games you have been in but... a subnuke is no guarantee of a kill either. A good team will throw some more buffs on the subnuke victim and sci team the cool down spike off... and roll on like nothing happened.
Even Subnukes need to be timed properly.
I really don't mean this to sound rude... but your complaining about a game you don't understand.
Subnuke is a captain skill... anything even remotely similer to its effects should stay that way. YOU HAVE TO BRING A sci to do well in high end pvp .... that is not flawed design.
For the same reasons I hate the new Nadion like DEM doff... it steps on the toes of the engi captain and that doff should never have been created either.
Captian powers are unique and should be powerful enough and IMPORTANT enough to a team that no doff should in anyway get even close to replacing them.
Doffs in general need a few small tweeks...
Shield distros need there numbers cut in half.
SunNuke doffs need either to be deleted or be dialed back in a major way.
The DEM doff although not that great cause frankly nadion isn't that great.. shouldn't exist.
Ourside of those issues the doffs are an interesting add to the pvp meta game and are fine.
As far as stacking mitigation... Believe it or not I think it is 100% fine as it is. Yes if you get an extends from the team healer, a hazards and transfer shield strength from the team sci.. and a tac team and delta from the team escort... YOU SHOULD BE UNKILLABLE. Switch freaking targets people. Stop focusing on one target all the time. All the squawking about mitigation comes from people that haven't seemed to figure out how to switch targets and how to fake out heals. Its part of the game and a fun part at that.
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.
I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.
Its a team game...
Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....
However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....
Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?
Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
These two posts win this debate, forever.
I absolutely LOVE the nearly infinite combinations and specialized builds out there, the resulting counters to their implementation, and the full team tactics needed to deal with all of it. This game would be drop dead boring without them.
I understand what you are saying, however, a pre-made is always going to stomp a pub... that is not the issue.
The comparison that you are making between STO PVP and a game of chess is just strange... STO PVP is not like chess because both sides in the match never begin on equal grounds.
If STO PVP were like a game of chess, when a pawn attempted to take another pawn, a knight would put up 2 buffs onto the pawn, the pawn would buff itself, and the capturing pawn would be like, "WTF, no matter what I do I can't take a piece because all of the other pieces buff and heal it!" Then, the only recourse would be some type of buff strip... this is bad.
You are right chess isn't the most logical comparison...
However you logic is still wrong... you are right if you are shooting at a target and he gets buffs from the other pieces... WHY ARE YOU STILL SHOOTING AT HIM. I think what you are saying is the knight just blew his cool downs saving the pawn... switch targets to the knight and kill him... I can tell you that the pawn is in no position to help him, and he just threw his own heals saving the pawn....
I don't see the situation of the pawn being untouchable for 15-30 seconds as an issue... I see it as in order to protect him that much an opportunity just opened somewhere else.
Your point is what makes the best premades the best... and other premades bad. Any premade can focus target kill most pugs yes.... most pugs don't have the will or the teamwork to save focus targets... However premades DO. Its at that point that you need to go into the next gear and save buffs... fake targets... rapid switch all over the place... basicly try your hardest to force the other team to burn there buffs saving one guy... and then saving enough of your own offensive buffs so you can rapid switch and take down the real target...
That is what makes STO pvp great... no you don't see that level of play vs pugs.. cause honestly its not needed... lazy focus fire is good enough against pugs... even in a pug if you see someone has an extend on them.... why the heck are you still shooting at them ?
im really not sure what you are on about. healing really isent all that op to need uber doffs. if you cant kill your stacked target maybe take all look at your own buld and what your team is doing. could just be 1 massive combo of p2w consoles. or the sdo. as it was said focus fire used to be the best option. maybe if you tryed to switch to the healer and kill him you would be better off then the 1 escourt that just got all the heals from the healer and possby few from the team. many times im in pvp pug and an escourt could be in trouble and the healer combined with me (escourt) will send out heals as well. if you see the healer send the target all its heals just switch to him. healing is not op. its team work that is op.
what is the problem is that healers dont get aux drain so they pump wep power past 125 for thoes 8 beams. maybe if other classes got system drain like tacts it would blance everything out better.
This notion of teamwork is fine, but that is true for any situation.
You say there is no problem with healing, it's teamwork that is the problem? That is quite strange to say... I don't think it is what you mean, but seems to be what you represented with your post.
Teamwork EQUALS sending out mitigation and healing to targets that are under attack. This FACT makes it REQUIRED to have a buff stripping DOFF assortment and/or Sub Nuc to down any targets in organized PVP. This is not fun for people who are more casual and do not have this ideal set up when entering PVP. This scenario is not conducive to growing a PVP community, or having a semblance of balance in PVP.
Healing is a huge problem in this game, for PVP. The only way to get around it is with SubNuc, or buff stripping DOFFs. Organized teams run two, or more, extends, transfers, emergency power to shields, etc... it all adds up to unkillable targets without the help of buff stripping/SubNuc; therefore making a target switch to a healer irrelevant unless there is a Sub Nuc set up and focus fire spike.
These obvious solutions being offered such as, "Get a better team," or, "Switch targets," are kind of insulting... that is day one stuff.
My point is that nerfing the buff stripping DOFF while not tackling the issue of overpowered heals and mitigation, (even Escorts can throw out heals, as you stated,) is like ripping off a band-aid before a wound is healed.
There should be solutions for other Captains to deal with the stacking of mitigation and heals. It should not be required that a team carry buff stripping DOFFs and/or a Sub Nuc in order to be able to down a target. This would require efforts towards re-balancing the PVP gameplay...
IMO, the reason that the buff stripping DOFF exists in the first place is because of PVP. I don't think that many can argue successfully that the buff stripping DOFF was added for PVE. As we know, in PVP it is rather difficult to kill any target that is being helped by their team with mitigation and healing. The only way to do so is to buff strip the target, (or siphon all of their power, both of which are pretty over-powered, hence the call for nerfs to the buff stripping DOFF and incoming changes to power siphon drones.) AFAIK most people agree that energy drain abilities have gotten a bit out of hand as well, again, this is a balance issue.
Therefore, the REAL problem, in regards to the presence of the buff stripping DOFF, is the ability for virtually any one on a team, regardless of ship-class and Captain role, to send mitigation and heals to friendly targets. Contrarily the ONLY counter to this is from Science Captains, or buff stripping DOFFs... I believe that this is a major problem because it limits the ability for teams comprised of other Captain types, or of more casual players who do not have buff stripping DOFFs, to enter PVP and have a successful, or more importantly fun, experience.
As I said in previous posts: Other games have added solutions for DPS and even Tanks to get around Buffs/Heals. There are solutions but no effort seems to be dedicated towards PVP balance... why?
Instead we get band-aids which provide further detriment to the community, instead of a realization and concentrated effort at figuring out what is making a problem in the first place.
You are right chess isn't the most logical comparison...
However you logic is still wrong... you are right if you are shooting at a target and he gets buffs from the other pieces... WHY ARE YOU STILL SHOOTING AT HIM. I think what you are saying is the knight just blew his cool downs saving the pawn... switch targets to the knight and kill him... I can tell you that the pawn is in no position to help him, and he just threw his own heals saving the pawn....
I don't see the situation of the pawn being untouchable for 15-30 seconds as an issue... I see it as in order to protect him that much an opportunity just opened somewhere else.
Your point is what makes the best premades the best... and other premades bad. Any premade can focus target kill most pugs yes.... most pugs don't have the will or the teamwork to save focus targets... However premades DO. Its at that point that you need to go into the next gear and save buffs... fake targets... rapid switch all over the place... basicly try your hardest to force the other team to burn there buffs saving one guy... and then saving enough of your own offensive buffs so you can rapid switch and take down the real target...
That is what makes STO pvp great... no you don't see that level of play vs pugs.. cause honestly its not needed... lazy focus fire is good enough against pugs... even in a pug if you see someone has an extend on them.... why the heck are you still shooting at them ?
Switching to another target? GEE NEVER THOUGH OF IT.
Day one stuff man, please...
Attack target, target gets buffs, switch target, that target gets buffs, switch target, that target gets buffs, first target buffs off of cool down, rinse, repeat.
"Your point is what makes the best premades the best... and other premades bad. Any premade can focus target kill most pugs yes.... most pugs don't have the will or the teamwork to save focus targets... However premades DO. Its at that point that you need to go into the next gear and save buffs... fake targets... rapid switch all over the place... basicly try your hardest to force the other team to burn there buffs saving one guy... and then saving enough of your own offensive buffs so you can rapid switch and take down the real target... "
...and in the end, it's a buff strip or a sub nuc that will down the target. Any good players, ones that I would not insult by offering day one suggestions, will be able to switch back and forth between, 'fake,' and, 'real,' targets... It is quite easy to even HEAR a buff up for a target switch... Furthermore, most people are continuously running at least one shield mitigation on themselves, protecting them for enough time so that their support can keep them alive... this is day one stuff as well.
I'm not going to continue to respond to obvious suggestions like, "Stop shooting that then." It's almost as if you are saying to me, "Get a pre-made or stfu." This is ironic, because even in pre-mades, and possibly MOSTLY in pre-mades, buff stripping and/or Sub Nuc is required... so this is no solution whatsoever to the problem that I am illustrating.
TBH I would like to see a PVP match where ONLY DPS is used in order to try and down targets, in pre-mades. As in, no Sub Nuc, and no buff stripping DOFF. Since over-powered consoles like Plasmonic Leech and Aceton Assimilators are considered cheese, those are out too... I have even heard of people banning Energy Siphon from organized PVP... Good luck killing something, lemme know how that target switching works out for you. BTW, I don't want to see that, I'd rather take a hammer to my face repeatedly than watch that boring fiasco.
I honestly don't think that STO PVP is great... nor any game's PVP to be great when there is no effort to balance it, in general, other than to fix overwhelming bugs. There are small steps here and there, but it's quite a mess, imo.
im really not sure what you are on about. healing really isent all that op to need uber doffs. if you cant kill your stacked target maybe take all look at your own buld and what your team is doing. could just be 1 massive combo of p2w consoles. or the sdo. as it was said focus fire used to be the best option. maybe if you tryed to switch to the healer and kill him you would be better off then the 1 escourt that just got all the heals from the healer and possby few from the team. many times im in pvp pug and an escourt could be in trouble and the healer combined with me (escourt) will send out heals as well. if you see the healer send the target all its heals just switch to him. healing is not op. its team work that is op.
You are right chess isn't the most logical comparison...
However you logic is still wrong... you are right if you are shooting at a target and he gets buffs from the other pieces... WHY ARE YOU STILL SHOOTING AT HIM. I think what you are saying is the knight just blew his cool downs saving the pawn... switch targets to the knight and kill him... I can tell you that the pawn is in no position to help him, and he just threw his own heals saving the pawn....
That is what makes STO pvp great... no you don't see that level of play vs pugs.. cause honestly its not needed... lazy focus fire is good enough against pugs... even in a pug if you see someone has an extend on them.... why the heck are you still shooting at them ?
heh, dident i just get done saying what you just said? why dont this guy understand this?
@freedumb4eva a premade can still lose to pugs........was just 3 of risa in pvp against a full premade full of p2w and we lost 10-15. we won that in my book since we did not use any p2w TRIBBLE except me using the jump console. yes a target can have extends, aux2sif et tss he. but if hes at 30% gets all of that goes up to 100% why keep shooting at him? go to the healer. heck even have 2 guys go for the healer while 3 shoot at a diff target just to force the healer to burn his own heals on himself. just adapt to whats going on. its like this...i adapt to your team you adapt to mine ect. your always switching targets.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
Well then there is no help for you and perhaps you are correct sto pvp is not for you. Honesty PvP in any mmo won't be fore you cause STO is not unique. This is the way it works in every MMO.... in general 2-3 classes need to work together to benifit each other... this is day one mmo stuff really.
Yes it may sound insulting but yes you need to switch targets... frankly any team that is firing all 5 on one target anymore is not doing it right... and will chalk up losses against the best teams. YOU have to split your dps these days to force teams to heal more then one target. I don't think thats bad design in anyway... yes a 5 man full of heals on one target can keep him up... I don't find that broken.
If you are cycling your targets properly yes you will find openings... the key is recognizing them when they happen. If you don't know if your targets RSP is up or not you aren't counting buffs properly. This may sound like BS... but on our team at most points in the match we can tell you how long the healer has on there hazards... yes you need to time things... that isn't broken game desgin in my book... its intelligent design... even if Cryptic stumbled into it.
Well then there is no help for you and perhaps you are correct sto pvp is not for you. Honesty PvP in any mmo won't be fore you cause STO is not unique. This is the way it works in every MMO.... in general 2-3 classes need to work together to benifit each other... this is day one mmo stuff really.
Yes it may sound insulting but yes you need to switch targets... frankly any team that is firing all 5 on one target anymore is not doing it right... and will chalk up losses against the best teams. YOU have to split your dps these days to force teams to heal more then one target. I don't think thats bad design in anyway... yes a 5 man full of heals on one target can keep him up... I don't find that broken.
If you are cycling your targets properly yes you will find openings... the key is recognizing them when they happen. If you don't know if your targets RSP is up or not you aren't counting buffs properly. This may sound like BS... but on our team at most points in the match we can tell you how long the healer has on there hazards... yes you need to time things... that isn't broken game desgin in my book... its intelligent design... even if Cryptic stumbled into it.
Wow, you still tell me, "Yes, in fact you do need to switch targets..." Derp, thanks again for telling me day one stuff that I learned like four MMOs ago... Take a target by surprise with damage spikes? WHO KNEW!? I can say with certainty that your team utilizes at least Sub Nuc, and possibly buff stripping DOFFS... yanno why I can say that? It's because without those utilities, it is impossible to kill targets with pure damage, and, "Derp target switching, duh!"
I'm done here, I've made my point and let out my opinion. I'm glad that your team is specifically designed to handle STO PVP, whereas I believe that STO PVP should be designed to handle a variety of different teams.
Does it say subnuke in its description of ability? Are they from assignments or packs? I looked under energy weapons purples and did not see any.
The DOffs do not apply the SNB to the target. They are called SNB DOffs because their effect/proc is to strip the buffs of the target. So sort of like SNB. Hence the name.
They were introduced with a 2.5% proc chance. Obviously the same math-challenged individual/team responsible, has not gone back to school yet. There are other doffs with equally high % proc chance as well. How about a 1% chance of cutting your perception by 80%? The 'BFI DOffs' 50%/50% procs.. and more. Things like these make STO feel more like World of Battle-Make than Star Trek.
Let's simplify things. Remove all of those skills. So that all you've got is the nominal shield regen and hull repair rates. Curve the higher damage weapons for balance. Yeah, I can see this happening before the universe dies a heat death.
Or leave things as unbalanced as they are, put in open PvP. I'm sure that one KDF captain can match the other 4? 5? Fed captains? Until all Feds are sailing Defiants or Dreadnoughts.
ok so et, 15 secs, aux2sif 15 secs, he 45 secs tss 45 secs. not so sure about he and tss but others can correct me. just time your stuff and always switch. nothing else left to say here
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
ok so et, 15 secs, aux2sif 15 secs, he 45 secs tss 45 secs. not so sure about he and tss but others can correct me. just time your stuff and always switch. nothing else left to say here
Oh, but wait, there's more than one healer on most teams, so your argument goes out the window. Oh, but wait, a target can buff self AND buff others... Oh, but wait, good players who coordinate over VOIP can communicate who is sending which buff to whom so that no buffs/heals are wasted... C'mon... why are people acting like there isn't a problem? Please, keep telling me that I'm just doing it wrong...
While you're timing your attacks, healers are timing their buffs...
Healing/mitigation # of buffs > Damage # of attacks
TSS, EPtS, Aux2SIF, Extends, Tac Team, RSP, BFI, MW, DF, Eng Team (maybe), Sci Team, Polarize Hull, Omega, Delta, EPS, Borg Procs, extend doff, hazard doff, etc etc etc... it is perfectly conceivable that every single good team is utilizing at least one instance of each of these abilities on their ships layouts. (Not individually.)
Things that I can do to buff my damage cannot surmount the never-ending cascade of those abilities being sent to friendly targets... unless someone buff strips or Sub Nucs.
Wow, you still tell me, "Yes, in fact you do need to switch targets..." Derp, thanks again for telling me day one stuff that I learned like four MMOs ago... Take a target by surprise with damage spikes? WHO KNEW!? I can say with certainty that your team utilizes at least Sub Nuc, and possibly buff stripping DOFFS... yanno why I can say that? It's because without those utilities, it is impossible to kill targets with pure damage, and, "Derp target switching, duh!"
I'm done here, I've made my point and let out my opinion. I'm glad that your team is specifically designed to handle STO PVP, whereas I believe that STO PVP should be designed to handle a variety of different teams.
Well yes our team runs with 1-2 sci... we rarely run 3 but we have.... no we don't have 1 setup... we put together teams loose like... we run with 1-2 healers 1-2 dps... and 1-2 sci debuff and mix and match from there... HOW is that broken at all. The idea of having to have a mix on a team to properly handle healing and offensive duties. Seems perfectly balanced to me.
STO is balanced to work fine with differenty team make ups... having said that yes you need dps heals and debuffs... its the mmo holy trinity... if you have played other mmos you should understand thats how these things work....
Its when games get away from the trinity that things become junk imo.
Oh, but wait, there's more than one healer on most teams, so your argument goes out the window. Oh, but wait, a target can buff self AND buff others... Oh, but wait, good players who coordinate over VOIP can communicate who is sending which buff to whom so that no buffs/heals are wasted... C'mon... why are people acting like there isn't a problem? Please, keep telling me that I'm just doing it wrong...
We act like there isn't a problem... because... drum roll... be believe there isn't one.
Yes a good team will work together with there heals... why against a team like that should you not have to do the same with your offense. You do have to do the same with your offense... not seeing how this is game breaking. It is not hard to get teams to push just a few to many buffs to one target... this opens a hole somewhere else... its not rocket science...
Yes it can make for 40 min matches.. but last time I was in a good 40 min match everyone was happy to be there. lol
Teamwork EQUALS sending out mitigation and healing to targets that are under attack. This FACT makes it REQUIRED to have a buff stripping DOFF assortment and/or Sub Nuc to down any targets in organized PVP.
TSI, QEW, Pandas never won any games before the introduction of subnuke doffs, eh?
Just another guy trying to justify his purchase.
Don't you worry, nice cuddly Cryptic will make it all feel warm and fuzzy for you. They won't nerf your toys too much.
Enjoy playing the game with what will be left of the community once everyone is armed with these things.
Comments
Thx
Energy Weapons Officers, such as Muaza Ammansor (think I mispelled that), the Xindi Aquatic is one example of the DOFF in question. There are others, same class who do the same thing on both sides, Fed and KDF. They're ultra rare DOFFs technically.
Husanak offered obvious solutions... "Get a better team." This problem that I am having is not about that. Even in a, "Good team," situation, the only saving grace to killing a target with stacked mitigation is to SubNuc them... this is bad.
Are you even reading my posts?
My point is that removing the band-aid without healing the wound leaves a loss of blood to be incurred... aka nerfing the subnuc doff without tackling the major healing/mitigations in the game will just leave players wanting for some kind of buff removal, (non-sci.)
Healing/mitigation needs to be looked at. As does the SubNuc DOFF and not the former before the latter.
The argument of, "get a better team or stop PVPing," is not conducive to getting more people into PVP. Normal players have zero chance of getting through stacked mitigation and healing.
Does it say subnuke in its description of ability? Are they from assignments or packs? I looked under energy weapons purples and did not see any.
they should be in the 20 mil range
I heard that but I did not notice anything in description that mentioned subnuke - maybe I missed it.
Do they help at all against PvE npc's? For my sci toon will they do anything against the borg?
/Roll a Sci
Problem solved.
This guy goes into the doctor with a broken leg. He start freaking out when he sees the doctor pull out a small sledge hammer. When he asks what the hell its for, the doctor says he's going to break the other leg to keep him balanced. The guy tells him why not just fix my broken leg, but the doctor tells him maybe later when he has the time. For now, just breaking the other leg will be faster.
Sounds like the apparent logic.
No, that solves nothing. It would provide me with the one shot buff removal, however, it does not solve the problem for other people who don't choose to re-roll as a Sci captain.
Also, if everyone made this choice then the entire populace would be Sci captains just because of this silly problem.
I don't expect any thing to change regarding this problem, to be honest. I am quite jaded at this point. But, I suppose, perhaps, it is possible... at some future time when there is another skill re-work.
Why is this bad ? Please explain that one. lol
In every MMO ever made...
if you go into a team pvp game with out a healer you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game and the other team has a good debuffer and you don't you get wasted hard.
if you go into a team pvp game with out enough dps you get wasted hard.
Why is it so hard to accept that you need to bring a well rounded team.
Is subnuke anymore powerful then attack pattern alpha? I don't think so.
Also I don't know how many high end pvp games you have been in but... a subnuke is no guarantee of a kill either. A good team will throw some more buffs on the subnuke victim and sci team the cool down spike off... and roll on like nothing happened.
Even Subnukes need to be timed properly.
I really don't mean this to sound rude... but your complaining about a game you don't understand.
Subnuke is a captain skill... anything even remotely similer to its effects should stay that way. YOU HAVE TO BRING A sci to do well in high end pvp .... that is not flawed design.
For the same reasons I hate the new Nadion like DEM doff... it steps on the toes of the engi captain and that doff should never have been created either.
Captian powers are unique and should be powerful enough and IMPORTANT enough to a team that no doff should in anyway get even close to replacing them.
Doffs in general need a few small tweeks...
Shield distros need there numbers cut in half.
SunNuke doffs need either to be deleted or be dialed back in a major way.
The DEM doff although not that great cause frankly nadion isn't that great.. shouldn't exist.
Ourside of those issues the doffs are an interesting add to the pvp meta game and are fine.
As far as stacking mitigation... Believe it or not I think it is 100% fine as it is. Yes if you get an extends from the team healer, a hazards and transfer shield strength from the team sci.. and a tac team and delta from the team escort... YOU SHOULD BE UNKILLABLE. Switch freaking targets people. Stop focusing on one target all the time. All the squawking about mitigation comes from people that haven't seemed to figure out how to switch targets and how to fake out heals. Its part of the game and a fun part at that.
They might knock a Borg FAW or HYT off now and again and can take out their fast shield-redistribute/regen ability, but to be honest, you're not gonna see much use out of them in PvE. They are not worth the 20 mil per DOff price for PvE, to be frank. They're actually yet another case of an item or power being underpowered/weak in PvE and overpowered/lulzy in PvP.
If you're having trouble with content or simply looking for ways to maximize your current Ship/Captain's ability to go through it, getting help with your BOff powers, consoles, and gear is a much better place to start and will pay out big in the long run.
It was a joke... my point is there is a hard counter in the game to stacking buffs. Its called subnuke... no we can't all roll sci. Trust me if a team of 5 sci showed up against out premade we would spank them hard.
I really don't understand why people think we should be able to all roll tacs and be fine in pvp.
Its a team game...
Think of STO pvp as a game of chess....
However in this type of chess... the pieces on each side can be changed slightly... you don't have to have the same setup each time....
Now in this game imagine if you loaded nothing but knights on one side... how well do you think you would do against a traditional chess setup on the other side ?
Yes a good team really needs one of each captain type... how is that bad game design ?
thanks. I am not a PvPer and don't plan to be so I will ignore the sub.
I understand what you are saying, however, a pre-made is always going to stomp a pub... that is not the issue.
The comparison that you are making between STO PVP and a game of chess is just strange... STO PVP is not like chess because both sides in the match never begin on equal grounds.
If STO PVP were like a game of chess, when a pawn attempted to take another pawn, a knight would put up 2 buffs onto the pawn, the pawn would buff itself, and the capturing pawn would be like, "WTF, no matter what I do I can't take a piece because all of the other pieces buff and heal it!" Then, the only recourse would be some type of buff strip... this is bad.
im really not sure what you are on about. healing really isent all that op to need uber doffs. if you cant kill your stacked target maybe take all look at your own buld and what your team is doing. could just be 1 massive combo of p2w consoles. or the sdo. as it was said focus fire used to be the best option. maybe if you tryed to switch to the healer and kill him you would be better off then the 1 escourt that just got all the heals from the healer and possby few from the team. many times im in pvp pug and an escourt could be in trouble and the healer combined with me (escourt) will send out heals as well. if you see the healer send the target all its heals just switch to him. healing is not op. its team work that is op.
what is the problem is that healers dont get aux drain so they pump wep power past 125 for thoes 8 beams. maybe if other classes got system drain like tacts it would blance everything out better.
These two posts win this debate, forever.
I absolutely LOVE the nearly infinite combinations and specialized builds out there, the resulting counters to their implementation, and the full team tactics needed to deal with all of it. This game would be drop dead boring without them.
You are right chess isn't the most logical comparison...
However you logic is still wrong... you are right if you are shooting at a target and he gets buffs from the other pieces... WHY ARE YOU STILL SHOOTING AT HIM. I think what you are saying is the knight just blew his cool downs saving the pawn... switch targets to the knight and kill him... I can tell you that the pawn is in no position to help him, and he just threw his own heals saving the pawn....
I don't see the situation of the pawn being untouchable for 15-30 seconds as an issue... I see it as in order to protect him that much an opportunity just opened somewhere else.
Your point is what makes the best premades the best... and other premades bad. Any premade can focus target kill most pugs yes.... most pugs don't have the will or the teamwork to save focus targets... However premades DO. Its at that point that you need to go into the next gear and save buffs... fake targets... rapid switch all over the place... basicly try your hardest to force the other team to burn there buffs saving one guy... and then saving enough of your own offensive buffs so you can rapid switch and take down the real target...
That is what makes STO pvp great... no you don't see that level of play vs pugs.. cause honestly its not needed... lazy focus fire is good enough against pugs... even in a pug if you see someone has an extend on them.... why the heck are you still shooting at them ?
This notion of teamwork is fine, but that is true for any situation.
You say there is no problem with healing, it's teamwork that is the problem? That is quite strange to say... I don't think it is what you mean, but seems to be what you represented with your post.
Teamwork EQUALS sending out mitigation and healing to targets that are under attack. This FACT makes it REQUIRED to have a buff stripping DOFF assortment and/or Sub Nuc to down any targets in organized PVP. This is not fun for people who are more casual and do not have this ideal set up when entering PVP. This scenario is not conducive to growing a PVP community, or having a semblance of balance in PVP.
Healing is a huge problem in this game, for PVP. The only way to get around it is with SubNuc, or buff stripping DOFFs. Organized teams run two, or more, extends, transfers, emergency power to shields, etc... it all adds up to unkillable targets without the help of buff stripping/SubNuc; therefore making a target switch to a healer irrelevant unless there is a Sub Nuc set up and focus fire spike.
These obvious solutions being offered such as, "Get a better team," or, "Switch targets," are kind of insulting... that is day one stuff.
My point is that nerfing the buff stripping DOFF while not tackling the issue of overpowered heals and mitigation, (even Escorts can throw out heals, as you stated,) is like ripping off a band-aid before a wound is healed.
There should be solutions for other Captains to deal with the stacking of mitigation and heals. It should not be required that a team carry buff stripping DOFFs and/or a Sub Nuc in order to be able to down a target. This would require efforts towards re-balancing the PVP gameplay...
IMO, the reason that the buff stripping DOFF exists in the first place is because of PVP. I don't think that many can argue successfully that the buff stripping DOFF was added for PVE. As we know, in PVP it is rather difficult to kill any target that is being helped by their team with mitigation and healing. The only way to do so is to buff strip the target, (or siphon all of their power, both of which are pretty over-powered, hence the call for nerfs to the buff stripping DOFF and incoming changes to power siphon drones.) AFAIK most people agree that energy drain abilities have gotten a bit out of hand as well, again, this is a balance issue.
Therefore, the REAL problem, in regards to the presence of the buff stripping DOFF, is the ability for virtually any one on a team, regardless of ship-class and Captain role, to send mitigation and heals to friendly targets. Contrarily the ONLY counter to this is from Science Captains, or buff stripping DOFFs... I believe that this is a major problem because it limits the ability for teams comprised of other Captain types, or of more casual players who do not have buff stripping DOFFs, to enter PVP and have a successful, or more importantly fun, experience.
As I said in previous posts: Other games have added solutions for DPS and even Tanks to get around Buffs/Heals. There are solutions but no effort seems to be dedicated towards PVP balance... why?
Instead we get band-aids which provide further detriment to the community, instead of a realization and concentrated effort at figuring out what is making a problem in the first place.
Switching to another target? GEE NEVER THOUGH OF IT.
Day one stuff man, please...
Attack target, target gets buffs, switch target, that target gets buffs, switch target, that target gets buffs, first target buffs off of cool down, rinse, repeat.
"Your point is what makes the best premades the best... and other premades bad. Any premade can focus target kill most pugs yes.... most pugs don't have the will or the teamwork to save focus targets... However premades DO. Its at that point that you need to go into the next gear and save buffs... fake targets... rapid switch all over the place... basicly try your hardest to force the other team to burn there buffs saving one guy... and then saving enough of your own offensive buffs so you can rapid switch and take down the real target... "
...and in the end, it's a buff strip or a sub nuc that will down the target. Any good players, ones that I would not insult by offering day one suggestions, will be able to switch back and forth between, 'fake,' and, 'real,' targets... It is quite easy to even HEAR a buff up for a target switch... Furthermore, most people are continuously running at least one shield mitigation on themselves, protecting them for enough time so that their support can keep them alive... this is day one stuff as well.
I'm not going to continue to respond to obvious suggestions like, "Stop shooting that then." It's almost as if you are saying to me, "Get a pre-made or stfu." This is ironic, because even in pre-mades, and possibly MOSTLY in pre-mades, buff stripping and/or Sub Nuc is required... so this is no solution whatsoever to the problem that I am illustrating.
TBH I would like to see a PVP match where ONLY DPS is used in order to try and down targets, in pre-mades. As in, no Sub Nuc, and no buff stripping DOFF. Since over-powered consoles like Plasmonic Leech and Aceton Assimilators are considered cheese, those are out too... I have even heard of people banning Energy Siphon from organized PVP... Good luck killing something, lemme know how that target switching works out for you. BTW, I don't want to see that, I'd rather take a hammer to my face repeatedly than watch that boring fiasco.
I honestly don't think that STO PVP is great... nor any game's PVP to be great when there is no effort to balance it, in general, other than to fix overwhelming bugs. There are small steps here and there, but it's quite a mess, imo.
heh, dident i just get done saying what you just said? why dont this guy understand this?
@freedumb4eva a premade can still lose to pugs........was just 3 of risa in pvp against a full premade full of p2w and we lost 10-15. we won that in my book since we did not use any p2w TRIBBLE except me using the jump console. yes a target can have extends, aux2sif et tss he. but if hes at 30% gets all of that goes up to 100% why keep shooting at him? go to the healer. heck even have 2 guys go for the healer while 3 shoot at a diff target just to force the healer to burn his own heals on himself. just adapt to whats going on. its like this...i adapt to your team you adapt to mine ect. your always switching targets.
Yes it may sound insulting but yes you need to switch targets... frankly any team that is firing all 5 on one target anymore is not doing it right... and will chalk up losses against the best teams. YOU have to split your dps these days to force teams to heal more then one target. I don't think thats bad design in anyway... yes a 5 man full of heals on one target can keep him up... I don't find that broken.
If you are cycling your targets properly yes you will find openings... the key is recognizing them when they happen. If you don't know if your targets RSP is up or not you aren't counting buffs properly. This may sound like BS... but on our team at most points in the match we can tell you how long the healer has on there hazards... yes you need to time things... that isn't broken game desgin in my book... its intelligent design... even if Cryptic stumbled into it.
Wow, you still tell me, "Yes, in fact you do need to switch targets..." Derp, thanks again for telling me day one stuff that I learned like four MMOs ago... Take a target by surprise with damage spikes? WHO KNEW!? I can say with certainty that your team utilizes at least Sub Nuc, and possibly buff stripping DOFFS... yanno why I can say that? It's because without those utilities, it is impossible to kill targets with pure damage, and, "Derp target switching, duh!"
I'm done here, I've made my point and let out my opinion. I'm glad that your team is specifically designed to handle STO PVP, whereas I believe that STO PVP should be designed to handle a variety of different teams.
The DOffs do not apply the SNB to the target. They are called SNB DOffs because their effect/proc is to strip the buffs of the target. So sort of like SNB. Hence the name.
They were introduced with a 2.5% proc chance. Obviously the same math-challenged individual/team responsible, has not gone back to school yet. There are other doffs with equally high % proc chance as well. How about a 1% chance of cutting your perception by 80%? The 'BFI DOffs' 50%/50% procs.. and more. Things like these make STO feel more like World of Battle-Make than Star Trek.
Let's simplify things. Remove all of those skills. So that all you've got is the nominal shield regen and hull repair rates. Curve the higher damage weapons for balance. Yeah, I can see this happening before the universe dies a heat death.
Or leave things as unbalanced as they are, put in open PvP. I'm sure that one KDF captain can match the other 4? 5? Fed captains? Until all Feds are sailing Defiants or Dreadnoughts.
Oh, but wait, there's more than one healer on most teams, so your argument goes out the window. Oh, but wait, a target can buff self AND buff others... Oh, but wait, good players who coordinate over VOIP can communicate who is sending which buff to whom so that no buffs/heals are wasted... C'mon... why are people acting like there isn't a problem? Please, keep telling me that I'm just doing it wrong...
While you're timing your attacks, healers are timing their buffs...
Healing/mitigation # of buffs > Damage # of attacks
TSS, EPtS, Aux2SIF, Extends, Tac Team, RSP, BFI, MW, DF, Eng Team (maybe), Sci Team, Polarize Hull, Omega, Delta, EPS, Borg Procs, extend doff, hazard doff, etc etc etc... it is perfectly conceivable that every single good team is utilizing at least one instance of each of these abilities on their ships layouts. (Not individually.)
Things that I can do to buff my damage cannot surmount the never-ending cascade of those abilities being sent to friendly targets... unless someone buff strips or Sub Nucs.
Well yes our team runs with 1-2 sci... we rarely run 3 but we have.... no we don't have 1 setup... we put together teams loose like... we run with 1-2 healers 1-2 dps... and 1-2 sci debuff and mix and match from there... HOW is that broken at all. The idea of having to have a mix on a team to properly handle healing and offensive duties. Seems perfectly balanced to me.
STO is balanced to work fine with differenty team make ups... having said that yes you need dps heals and debuffs... its the mmo holy trinity... if you have played other mmos you should understand thats how these things work....
Its when games get away from the trinity that things become junk imo.
We act like there isn't a problem... because... drum roll... be believe there isn't one.
Yes a good team will work together with there heals... why against a team like that should you not have to do the same with your offense. You do have to do the same with your offense... not seeing how this is game breaking. It is not hard to get teams to push just a few to many buffs to one target... this opens a hole somewhere else... its not rocket science...
Yes it can make for 40 min matches.. but last time I was in a good 40 min match everyone was happy to be there. lol
TSI, QEW, Pandas never won any games before the introduction of subnuke doffs, eh?
Just another guy trying to justify his purchase.
Don't you worry, nice cuddly Cryptic will make it all feel warm and fuzzy for you. They won't nerf your toys too much.
Enjoy playing the game with what will be left of the community once everyone is armed with these things.