I think you are overlooking entirely what I said. If you read my WHOLE post, and not just the part you quoted, I was saying ALL ships with abilities like that should either A) Have them built in, like a Klingon cloak, or Have a SEPARATE console set for those abilities.
I was simply trying to offer up a way for people to have the abilities of these ships without losing out on the true potential of these ships and still enable PWE to make money, esp with abilities specific to those ships.
Allow me to clarify. I will use the tactical escort refit, retrofit, and fleet version as an example. All of them have X number of tac, engi, and sci slots (whatever they come with). But each of them also has an empty console slot in it's own category, called cloak. Now if you do it that way, PWE will still make their money, because you will still need to buy the retrofit to get the cloak, but if you do that, you now have this cloak console you can put in that separate console slot on ANY of those ships, giving you that nasty little cloak WITHOUT getting rid of some defense (sci/eng), attack power (tac), or utility (sci/eng) slot.
Another example, the Odysseys and Bortasque classes. They have their 10 consoles like we all love them for, and then 3 separate slots off in their own category. Each oddy/bort comes with it's console, and you can put it in that slot. That way PWE still forces you to get all 3 in order to use the oddy/bort set, but you can still use the oddy/bort set bonus and not lose out on ANY of your 10 consoles.
Basically what I propose is giving the ships back a little bit of their oomph (or in the case of ships that can carry multiple ability consoles, like the oddy and bort, a lot of their oomph).
So yes, I want my cake in order to eat it. Sorry bro.
lol indeed. What I meant when i said you would break them is if each one had its ability built in then there would be no 3 pice console bonus and i think would devalue the whole set. Thats the up side of consoles being powers. Could be neat if they made a few of them device powers instead.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
lol indeed. What I meant when i said you would break them is if each one had its ability built in then there would be no 3 pice console bonus and i think would devalue the whole set. Thats the up side of consoles being powers. Could be neat if they made a few of them device powers instead.
Slight wall of text warning.
Heh, yeah. Seeing as what you said here, what do you think of my idea to make them like hangars and have the ability consoles have their own area? That would allow for you to still have the full set bonus, without totally smacking the ship in the face (since let's face it, the oddy and bort set bonuses do not excuse removing 3 consoles to get it). Cuz that was what I had in mind originally, and thought of it AFTER I posted, cuz I agree, makin them abilities devalues the set and makes it so that you can't rewarded for either A) spending the money, or grinding like a madman to get all X number of pieces needed for a full set bonus.
The way I see it, doing it that way is fair because first off it still makes it worth getting all X number of pieces to get your bonus and still gets PWE it's money. Secondly, it allows you to keep the original strength of the ship and doesn't force you to lose consoles, which translate into ship ability. And lastly, it makes the ship more desirable because you are keeping the ship at it's base stats and possibly getting a bonus to go with it.
You know, I just figured an even better one. Make the ships with ability consoles have those separate console slots and allow ability consoles to go there EXCEPT on ships that have sets with multiple pieces. Those ships, you have to have all the pieces before you can put the ability consoles into the ability console slots. Until you get the full sets, those consoles have to take up regular console slots. That way it encourages you to get the full sets to avoid losing out on console slots you can put a neutronium, field generator, or damage buffing console in.
Oh and in response to another part, the red-matter device is a device based power lol.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Heh, yeah. Seeing as what you said here, what do you think of my idea to make them like hangars and have the ability consoles have their own area? That would allow for you to still have the full set bonus, without totally smacking the ship in the face (since let's face it, the oddy and bort set bonuses do not excuse removing 3 consoles to get it). Cuz that was what I had in mind originally, and thought of it AFTER I posted, cuz I agree, makin them abilities devalues the set and makes it so that you can't rewarded for either A) spending the money, or grinding like a madman to get all X number of pieces needed for a full set bonus.
The way I see it, doing it that way is fair because first off it still makes it worth getting all X number of pieces to get your bonus and still gets PWE it's money. Secondly, it allows you to keep the original strength of the ship and doesn't force you to lose consoles, which translate into ship ability. And lastly, it makes the ship more desirable because you are keeping the ship at it's base stats and possibly getting a bonus to go with it.
You know, I just figured an even better one. Make the ships with ability consoles have those separate console slots and allow ability consoles to go there EXCEPT on ships that have sets with multiple pieces. Those ships, you have to have all the pieces before you can put the ability consoles into the ability console slots. Until you get the full sets, those consoles have to take up regular console slots. That way it encourages you to get the full sets to avoid losing out on console slots you can put a neutronium, field generator, or damage buffing console in.
Oh and in response to another part, the red-matter device is a device based power lol.
Indeed it would be nice not to have to sacrafice so much for what is a prety weak bonus to begin with. One day maybe.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
i love my galaxy r, but have recently switched to my galaxy x, the R, is an under powered ship for her class and needs some improvement, just the same the galaxy x needs a boost in the turn rate.
Just my personal thoughts here.
With the introduction of the Regent Class we have seen that a cruiser can have much more tac BOFF slots without breaking the game "balance" (lol).
Why on earth do ships we have seen on tv do have to be so unflexible. We have seen that it is possible that cruisers can be even tactical focussed, why can't the Galaxy Class be as versatile as it is supposed to be?
I just don't understand this.
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Since the skill tree revamp prefire chambers are useless. A mk X prefire chamber gives you a 14% damage increase with only cannon type weapons where as a mk x phaser relay gives you a 20.6% damage increase in all weapons using phaser type energy.
As for the R you are loosing the ability to slot a number of shield enhancing consoles in your 3rd science slot so yes there is a sacrafice there. 6 beam arrays is an enormus power drain broad side and only an engineer can really support it. Even then it takes some doing. I would suggest a DBB up front for a little extra punch heading into your target and maybe a EPTW to help with the power drain, EPTW also adds a 10% damage bonus.
Not saying your build is in any way bad just suggesting you tailor it to compensate for the things you find lacking.
Actually i switched around some consoles to try to add 3rd field genrator but no better results. Its seem no matter what i do, my ship is inadequate.
Where did you get that idea from?
It's wrong!
All +% damage is additive, not only from same type. That includes contributions from skills (Starship Weapon Training, Straship Energy Weapons). By using that prefire chamber you're losing dps.
That's also one common mistake, to overestimate the effect of one additional Tac console: skills already add nearly 200% base damage, so a single console makes it 300% -> 324% - an 8% increase. Even less if you already have two consoles.
Of course, this only makes your mistake with the prefire have very little effect - you lose less than 3% in dps. It's still a mistake.
Yeah, but we are not here complaining about my Dreadnought. The prefire chamber is an easy fix. I just borr0wed Phaser relay from one of my older ships. We are complaining about the Galaxy-R.
First, you cannot claim a Tactical Escort Retrofit without being Lv 50.
Meaning your example is already bad because the Tactical Escort refit (that is the Sao Paulo) is a T4 ship that is identical to to Tactical Escort except it have a different skin and comes with Quad Phaser Canons-
Second you idea is very much getting yet another console slot, they already done so when abilities were changed into consoles, not to say you wan for then to add a USELESS slot because why should I have to use a Cloak with the Tactical Escort retrofit? I would perhaps rather use another, more useful, console that Cloak that is not that useful (seen many Galaxy-Xs around?).
And I point again if they change the abilities you are going to lose the console slot they given when abilities were turned into consoles.
You once again miss the point of what I am saying. I am simply saying why not give them a different TYPE of console. Yes it adds a console, but it adds one SPECIFICALLY for that cloak. How many times do I have to explain it? Should I draw a picture? Or can you please look more than 2 millimeters past your own nose and actually keep on open mind to what I am suggesting?
I am not forcing you to use the cloak. I am simply offering an alternative to what they currently have. You can either use the cloak or not use it. In your case I honestly don't care. But I am just giving a way for you to use said cloak without having to sacrifice one of your standard consoles to do so.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I am afraid you continue to fail to understand me.
When abilities were turned into consoles, they added a extra console slot to the ships that had abilities turned into consoles.
WALL OF TEXT ALERT.
I understood you perfectly. But what I am also pointing out is that if you look at a lot of these ships, they are gaining a tier or two, in fact many of these retrofits are Vice Admiral, making them tier 5, whereas their originals often are not. So the addition of a console is expected, if for no reason than to make them able to be competitive with existing tier 5 ships.
However due to the design, many of these added consoles as you said are there for the abilities, which reduces the overall capability of the ship, since you then have to sacrifice that console slot for the ability. This is especially true of ships that have multiple consoles to give them set bonuses, like the bort and oddy. All I am suggesting is that we keep the standard console slot so that they are like tier 5 ships with I believe 9 or 10 consoles like every other tier 5 ship, but still be able to use the abilities without taking away from those 9 or 10 consoles, therefore allowing those ships to keep up with other tier 5 ships.
Allow me to give you an example if you will. The Odysseys. They are actually rather nice ships, both stat-wise (considering their roles) and aesthetically they aren't terrible. They have a nice chunk of base health and come with an assortment of 10 consoles based on what particular Odyssey you are using. Each one also comes with it's own unique console, the Aquarius with the Tactical version, the Chevron Separation with the Operations version, and the Worker Bees with the Science version. Now in order to get the set bonus, which isn't that bad actually (albeit not that great), you must use all 3 consoles, thus giving the Odyssey you are currently using the combined abilities of all 3 ships.
Here's the kicker though. In order to do this, you MUST sacrifice 3 of your consoles, turning this 10 console tier 5 ship into a 7 console tier 5 ship. Now correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that most TIER 3 ships have 7 consoles. So you just took a wonderful 10 console ship that can hold it's head high and say it's TIER 5, and slapped it in the face and reduced it to a TIER 3 for a bonus that really is not worth losing all those consoles.
My suggestion (not demand as you seem to want to see it as) is that we take away that slap in the face and give it back it's 3 console slots, thus allowing it to be a tier 5 ship again, and STILL allow for you to be rewarded for having put in the effort to get all 3 ships and in doing so get the set bonus. That's all.
Also with your argument about the separation and anti-matter console? I never said that the ability console slot be limited to just one console, or that it be specific to each particular console, like saying that SEPARATION ONLY or something like that. That would be unfair, since it would force players to give up abilities each ship could have. What I was proposing and perhaps didn't put enough detail into since I didn't want to bore the readers to death with a wall of text, was that you have a SET of console slots geared towards that particular ship class, allowing for consoles for THAT ship to be put there.
Take your Galaxy example, since that's OP anyways. I would have it have ability console SLOTS and have them simply say Galaxy Consoles. And I would put multiples, maxing out with whatever the current number of Galaxy only consoles there are, and allow you to put ANY of the Galaxy/Venture/Whatever the hell you are flying consoles into those slots. That way you could pick and choose what abilities you wanted, OR just say to heck with it and use ALL of them, without sacrificing ANY of the combat ability of the ship.
THAT is what I was proposing, not asking them to force players into doing something they don't want to. It would maintain flexibility, and allow each player to design the ship as he/she sees fit.
And yes, I know what argument is coming next. "What if everyone then just puts ALL of them on and flies this OP monster around?" Well then that's kudos to them for having spent all that money and time to get all the consoles, so maybe they deserve to have an OP monster. Or maybe what is said here really doesn't matter since I know the devs don't read it, so it won't change jack squat, so why are you worried? Afraid of a little change?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
First, you cannot claim a Tactical Escort Retrofit without being Lv 50.
Meaning your example is already bad because the Tactical Escort refit (that is the Sao Paulo) is a T4 ship that is identical to to Tactical Escort except it have a different skin and comes with Quad Phaser Canons-
Second you idea is very much getting yet another console slot, they already done so when abilities were changed into consoles, not to say you wan for then to add a USELESS slot because why should I have to use a Cloak with the Tactical Escort retrofit? I would perhaps rather use another, more useful, console that Cloak that is not that useful (seen many Galaxy-Xs around?).
And I point again if they change the abilities you are going to lose the console slot they given when abilities were turned into consoles.
Actualy the retrofit is not the san pablo. The retrofis is the old VA ship while the refit is tha san pablo. And the refit os the only vessel he listed in his example that can be claimed before level 50.
Actually i switched around some consoles to try to add 3rd field genrator but no better results. Its seem no matter what i do, my ship is inadequate.
You could try an emitter amplifier or emitter array console, The former will boost the native regeneration the latter will boost all of your shield healing abilities. Adding a tac team and some tac team doffs will aloow you to use tac team every 15 seconds and will help keep your shields up along with a slight damage boost. Native shield damage resistance increased as your shield power levels increase (35% at 125 power I think) so consider reducing power elsewhere to boost your shield power levels. The main thing to keep in mind is that you will end up being a more supportive role than in almost anything else and its best to play the R like you play a science ship.
As for abilitys getting their own slot, Some should remain console powers, but some could be turned into device powers and make sence. Some examples; cloaking"device", worker bees, nadeon detonator, photonic displacer, impulse capacitence cell, enhanced plasma manifold, plasmonic leech etc. you will still have to make a choice as to what you equip but it also allows you to use more of these abilitys and not reduce your effectiveness.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
100% true. Especially since Star Trek is set in a future where money doesn't exist.
I just don't understand the need to make the Galaxy class look as weak as possible. Starting with ST: Generations, where they destroyed the Enterprise - D as stupid and undeserving as possible, just to introduce a new ship that resembles Kirks ship much more, so every moronic cinemagoer notices that ST: First Contact is a Star Trek movie.
(someone really must have been thinking Star Trek wouldn't work without a "kirk" reference :mad:)
The Enterprise -D could have easily lasted to ST:X and beyond, if the producers wheren't as bubbleheaded as they are. (in the end of Generations, the Enterprise - D could have been heavy damaged so they could have made a more detailed/modernized Galaxy Class model for the next move, problem solved.)
ST: VII would have bee awesome with the Enterprise -D, btw.
Since then the Galaxy Class was shown as inferior to the Sovereign as possible, ending as a flying moitionless brick with no firepower as we have it in this game.
The devs should release a "special 25th century refit" Galaxy Class (or whatever they may call it), with a similar BOFF layout like the regent Class. To be honest, the BOFF layout of all Galaxy Variants are a joke in this game.
It just makes me sick seeing that ship being so badly wrong made. Especially since some people are actually starting to believe that the Galaxy Class really was that weak.
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
100% true. Especially since Star Trek is set in a future where money doesn't exist.
Since then the Galaxy Class was shown as inferior to the Sovereign as possible, ending as a flying moitionless brick with no firepower as we have it in this game.
The devs should release a "special 25th century refit" Galaxy Class (or whatever they may call it), with a similar BOFF layout like the regent Class. To be honest, the BOFF layout of all Galaxy Variants are a joke in this game.
It just makes me sick seeing that ship being so badly wrong made. Especially since some people are actually starting to believe that the Galaxy Class really was that weak.
Live long and prosper.
The Galaxy is an "exploration" type cruiser, its purpose was discussed as such in "Encounter at Farpoint" and beyond. The boff layout is the layout a standard cruiser should have and is the natural progression of the cruiser class. I think the Galaxy should have started out with more hull than the Sovy' to keep it with the "brick cruiser" aspect. Its th RA up support cruiser of the game.
I do agree that saucer separation is next to absurd as is. The Gal-X should've had the Regents layout for boffs though.
The Galaxy is an "exploration" type cruiser, its purpose was discussed as such in "Encounter at Farpoint" and beyond. The boff layout is the layout a standard cruiser should have and is the natural progression of the cruiser class. I think the Galaxy should have started out with more hull than the Sovy' to keep it with the "brick cruiser" aspect. Its th RA up support cruiser of the game.
I do agree that saucer separation is next to absurd as is. The Gal-X should've had the Regents layout for boffs though.
I partly disagree.
Since the Galaxy class is a Exploration cruiser it should have at least have a Lt. Cmdr universal, so it can operate much more effective on it's own and adapt to much more differend types of missions, without rely on other ships.
I never understood whats so great about flying "bricks" with no firepower, they are just big target practices, nothing else.
While the Galaxy is the jack of all trades, the sovereign should be a bit lighter and SLIGHTLY more maneuverable, nothing more.
The Galaxy - X should be the heaviest ship of them, having slightly more hull HP, but also slight less maneuverable as the galaxy Class.
Their BOFF layout should be the same on all three of these ship types IMHO, to represent starfleet top cruisers versality.
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
It's also why the Promethius three for one mode is so silly as a concept (as many of Voyager's ideas were). The ship as a whole has X power. Break it into three parts and each will have a third of that power. It can't magically have MORE power. Someone once suggested each section had its own warp core. One would run while the ship was intact, and the others would come online when the ship separated. Alright, I can buy that, but what an incredibly inefficient design. A warp core is not a small piece of equipment. You would also need a three times the storage space for fuel (deuterium tanks, antimatter containment).
Meh, I suspect I'm drifting off topic.
Actually, if you think about it, each ship would have LESS than a third of the whole ships power, with each section have to power up systems that would have been a redundancy on the ship when it is in one peice.
You could try an emitter amplifier or emitter array console, The former will boost the native regeneration the latter will boost all of your shield healing abilities. Adding a tac team and some tac team doffs will aloow you to use tac team every 15 seconds and will help keep your shields up along with a slight damage boost. Native shield damage resistance increased as your shield power levels increase (35% at 125 power I think) so consider reducing power elsewhere to boost your shield power levels. The main thing to keep in mind is that you will end up being a more supportive role than in almost anything else and its best to play the R like you play a science ship.
As for abilitys getting their own slot, Some should remain console powers, but some could be turned into device powers and make sence. Some examples; cloaking"device", worker bees, nadeon detonator, photonic displacer, impulse capacitence cell, enhanced plasma manifold, plasmonic leech etc. you will still have to make a choice as to what you equip but it also allows you to use more of these abilitys and not reduce your effectiveness.
You must realize that the BOFF setup don't allow the Galaxy to use affective science abilities and the best I can do is send a bunch of torpedo at people, hoping to catch their shields down. That not much of any role and when the enemy turns on me i can't do anything to defend myself.
I partly disagree.
Since the Galaxy class is a Exploration cruiser it should have at least have a Lt. Cmdr universal, so it can operate much more effective on it's own and adapt to much more differend types of missions, without rely on other ships.
I never understood whats so great about flying "bricks" with no firepower, they are just big target practices, nothing else.
While the Galaxy is the jack of all trades, the sovereign should be a bit lighter and SLIGHTLY more maneuverable, nothing more.
The Galaxy - X should be the heaviest ship of them, having slightly more hull HP, but also slight less maneuverable as the galaxy Class.
Their BOFF layout should be the same on all three of these ship types IMHO, to represent starfleet top cruisers versality.
Live long and prosper.
Im not so sold on that idea of a Lt. Commander Universal. The Galaxy is be more of a supporting role ship than a combat role ship, acting as an anchor for a group ( sporting buffs and debuffs for the group). The R can support other ships in its group with hull/shield heals and other buffs/debuffs like pretty much no other ship can (save probably the Odyssey).
The Sovy/Excel hulls are for the extra firepower, the R is pretty much the ultimate healboat/aoe ship a cruiser can offer.
Use your R to keep the dps ships rolling while you help knock the tartgeted ships shields down with beams and dps support with the torps
You must realize that the BOFF setup don't allow the Galaxy to use affective science abilities and the best I can do is send a bunch of torpedo at people, hoping to catch their shields down. That not much of any role and when the enemy turns on me i can't do anything to defend myself.
Whats an "effective science ability"? There are plenty good ensign and lt. science skills boffs use.
Im not so sold on that idea of a Lt. Commander Universal. The Galaxy is be more of a supporting role ship than a combat role ship, acting as an anchor for a group ( sporting buffs and debuffs for the group). The R can support other ships in its group with hull/shield heals and other buffs/debuffs like pretty much no other ship can (save probably the Odyssey).
The Sovy/Excel hulls are for the extra firepower, the R is pretty much the ultimate healboat/aoe ship a cruiser can offer.
Use your R to keep the dps ships rolling while you help knock the tartgeted ships shields down with beams and dps support with the torps
No, the canon Galaxy is not a support ship. Its a ship that can hold its own without reinforcements. In DS9 they were wing leaders, which are Command ships, not support ships. Support ships do miniscule task that are job specific like drop mine, or hunt for cloaked ships, ferry supplies. In the canon world, escorts are support ships and the not guns of the fleet. We already know this game don't follow canon but at least they can make the Galaxy like it should be, up there with the Oddyssey.
My ships, beams are not strong enogh to do damage to players shields. Thats why i made this thread because the Galaxy-R is too weak.
I was just thinking, if the overal damage output is the problem, what about an built-in Beam Overload ability, like the science ships have a subsystem target skill the Gal could get an "free" overload (or a directed energy modulation, I don't PvP so I don't know what's worth something).
I also agree with alexindcobras post, the Galaxy-Class is not your average support vessel, this is where the game get's it totally wrong. It is "the" Galaxy-Class. Sure, the new designs are "better" (although maybe just more specialized, the sovy is a combat oriented ship and the oddy is just overkill), but it is THE command vessel of the 24th century. It shouldn't be THAT outclassed in the very early 25th century. Hell, even the excelsior is still around and worth more. At some point, we'll get the Ambassador. What'll happen then?
EDIT: Though, I come to realize that arguing this way won't get you anywhere in STO. STOs own story proclaims that Starfleet invests ressources and manpower to construct replica of the NX-class XD.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Im not so sold on that idea of a Lt. Commander Universal. The Galaxy is be more of a supporting role ship than
a combat role ship, acting as an anchor for a group ( sporting buffs and debuffs for the group). The R can support other ships in its group with
hull/shield heals and other buffs/debuffs like pretty much no other ship can (save probably the Odyssey).
The Sovy/Excel hulls are for the extra firepower, the R is pretty much the ultimate healboat/aoe ship a cruiser can offer.
The Galaxy Class never was a support ship. It was a ship that was build to operate without support for several years. It was build so it could take care of itself, without having to rely on other ships.
Cryptics devs have degenerated the Galaxy class into a ship that is NOT anything like it was on TV.
If they would have made this ship more true to as it was intended, then it would be the best singleplayer ship in the Game, able to take care of itself, with limited support abilities but with a insane amount of versality, good survivability and good firepower (at least more Firepower than a Excelsior).
But it wouldn't be a slow flying brick without any significant firepower.
Use your R to keep the dps ships rolling while you help knock the tartgeted ships shields down with beams and
dps support with the torps
Lol, with only one Lt. tactical?
Every other ship can do that better. Even a Intrepid can have more offensive power with the right science powers.
That Saucer seperation is just a cheap excuse for the devs not to give the Galaxy class more firepower, it is just useless because you can't even use your ship as a reasonable torpedo boat, you just don't have enough tac BOFF slots for that.
Using your energy weapons to do dps?
Sorry but i had to laugh...
I would suggest that the devs should introduce a ship of their own design to become a "brick" or ultimate Tank or whatever you want to call it.
I wouldn't care if they would use one of their designs to fill that role, but i want my galaxy to be useful in that "role" we have seen it for so many years.
Additionally they should give us finally a Galaxy class that is more versatile and has more Firepower that that thing we have in the game.
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Saucer separation bothers me. It was never meant as a combat manuever. It was an EMERGENCY procedure, designed to let the saucer escape from combat or other dire circumstance.
The Saucer section has NO WARP CORE. That means it lacks the power to adequately power its weapons and shields for combat.
Powering weapons and shields does not require a warp core. Warp core is precisely for that: warp. Trek ships have fusion reactors that power the ship's systems..the warp drive is the one that requires the antimatter power generation.
Of course, when the ship is 'whole' the antimatter power is used for the ship as well...but the fusion reactors provide the 'operational' power for impulse, shields and life support.
Its why in trek you hear 'reactors are offline' not 'warp core is offline' when they have troubles with shields,life support,etc.
It's also why the Promethius three for one mode is so silly as a concept (as many of Voyager's ideas were). The ship as a whole has X power. Break it into three parts and each will have a third of that power. It can't magically have MORE power. Someone once suggested each section had its own warp core. One would run while the ship was intact, and the others would come online when the ship separated. Alright, I can buy that, but what an incredibly inefficient design. A warp core is not a small piece of equipment. You would also need a three times the storage space for fuel (deuterium tanks, antimatter containment).
as per above, the non-warp power is from fusion reactors. Most ships have three to provide multiple redundancy backups. I guess they thought one per ship section warranted the short term ability to come at the enemy from different angles. Who knows.
The Galaxy class was an exploration cruiser. As such it was not intended to be a warship. From the movies and tv series the enterprise-d really seems to have only had beam overload and torpedo spread.
The Galaxy does excel in surviving punishment while it takes down its opponents. Probably not very tv canon like but then again, Picard never faced a ship that was much superior to his own and the only times he was outnumbered he ended up running away or having his own backup ships in place.
Come to think of it, the only time the enterprise D got clobbered or nearly defeated was through subterfuge or by some space monster...but never a stronger ship.
The only Escort ship in canon was the Defiant that designed for one thing, blow the Borg up.
In "canon" there is only one Escort, the Defiant class
The Prometheus class that is classified in the game as a "Advanced Escort" was also designed for one thing, blow D'deridex warbirds up.
Point is Federation mainly builds cruisers, the whole Cruiser/Escort/Science is just a STO classification for the players ease of understanding of their capabilities and role, the Prometheus and the Intrepid classes look more like cruisers that anything else-
Also the Odyssey is the next multi-role Cruiser, the Galaxy is not and should not be "up there" with the Odyssey since its being effectively being replaced by the Odyssey ... if you are bringing canon up then I point out with RARE exceptions newer was always better.
The Galaxy should NOT be the Odyssey, if anything it should be like the Bortas with very strong hull because that was the Galaxy was known for, being capable to take severe damage.
No, negative! Obviously you have not been looking at Star Trek. Otherwise you would know that the Akira, Steamrunner, Defiant, Norway, and one more little ship ( that I can't remember the name of, right now) are escorts. They were no super strong ships, otherwise they wouldn't have needed the Enterprise E to come save the day. Remember the Defiant Class, USS Valiant, that tried to take on the Dominion Dreadnought but was destroyed with ease. Miranda's could also be classed as escorts because in battle they fly on flanks of more important ships to protect them. Thats escort duty. The Prometheus was an escort not just to destroy one type of ship, but it given the abilty to attack a single target from different angles and also numbers, turnig it from one ship to three.
And, yes the Galaxy should be up there with the Oddyssey in role, because its the only canon ship that fits that role. I'm not asking for it to have smae abilities as the Oddy but at least have the abilities from the show.The Oddyssey is not canon, and is only a creation of Devs in this game. How do we let a created ship dethrone an Iconic canon ship in its role? How do we make older ships like Excelsior and B'rel out perform the Galaxy? Hull don't matter much in the game because players in escorts can perform "crit"DPS attacks that excedes your hitpoints, so if you can't shield tank then you are not tanking at all.
The Galaxy class was an exploration cruiser. As such it was not intended to be a warship. From the movies and tv series the enterprise-d really seems to have only had beam overload and torpedo spread.
I think we shouldn't count what ship used what power in a series, or do you know what powers the Defiant used to use?
I think that would bring us nowhere, TBH.
The Galaxy does excel in surviving punishment while it takes down its opponents. Probably not very tv canon like but then again, Picard never faced a ship that was much superior to his own and the only times he was outnumbered he ended up running away or having his own backup ships in place.
What about the numerous Warbirds, what about the unknow ship in "the survivors" (3x03) for instance the Enterprise surely didn't run away from them. (we shouldn't forget that in those times battle scenes where much more expensive as in Later series. If they would do that series today or at least some years later, i think we could have seen the Galaxy Class do much more space Combat.)
Think about the Galaxy Class ships we saw in the battles of DS9, they surely weren't just flying bricks without firepower. They where the center of a Battlegroup featuring the heaviest Firepower surrounded by support ships and other cruisers. They where the real hard hitting Starfleet ships in those Battles. If they would to flown those degenerated Galaxy classes as we do in STO, the Dominion War would have ended quite different.
Come to think of it, the only time the enterprise D got clobbered or nearly defeated was through subterfuge or by some space monster...but never a stronger ship.
Very true. But it also could deal some serious damage if a situation required it.
Think about the first encounter with the (not yet fully adapted) Borg, Enterprises Phasers blasted a huge hole into that Cube as if it where butter.
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
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lol indeed. What I meant when i said you would break them is if each one had its ability built in then there would be no 3 pice console bonus and i think would devalue the whole set. Thats the up side of consoles being powers. Could be neat if they made a few of them device powers instead.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Slight wall of text warning.
Heh, yeah. Seeing as what you said here, what do you think of my idea to make them like hangars and have the ability consoles have their own area? That would allow for you to still have the full set bonus, without totally smacking the ship in the face (since let's face it, the oddy and bort set bonuses do not excuse removing 3 consoles to get it). Cuz that was what I had in mind originally, and thought of it AFTER I posted, cuz I agree, makin them abilities devalues the set and makes it so that you can't rewarded for either A) spending the money, or
The way I see it, doing it that way is fair because first off it still makes it worth getting all X number of pieces to get your bonus and still gets PWE it's money. Secondly, it allows you to keep the original strength of the ship and doesn't force you to lose consoles, which translate into ship ability. And lastly, it makes the ship more desirable because you are keeping the ship at it's base stats and possibly getting a bonus to go with it.
You know, I just figured an even better one. Make the ships with ability consoles have those separate console slots and allow ability consoles to go there EXCEPT on ships that have sets with multiple pieces. Those ships, you have to have all the pieces before you can put the ability consoles into the ability console slots. Until you get the full sets, those consoles have to take up regular console slots. That way it encourages you to get the full sets to avoid losing out on console slots you can put a neutronium, field generator, or damage buffing console in.
Oh and in response to another part, the red-matter device is a device based power lol.
Indeed it would be nice not to have to sacrafice so much for what is a prety weak bonus to begin with. One day maybe.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
With the introduction of the Regent Class we have seen that a cruiser can have much more tac BOFF slots without breaking the game "balance" (lol).
Why on earth do ships we have seen on tv do have to be so unflexible. We have seen that it is possible that cruisers can be even tactical focussed, why can't the Galaxy Class be as versatile as it is supposed to be?
I just don't understand this.
Live long and prosper.
Actually i switched around some consoles to try to add 3rd field genrator but no better results. Its seem no matter what i do, my ship is inadequate.
Yeah, but we are not here complaining about my Dreadnought. The prefire chamber is an easy fix. I just borr0wed Phaser relay from one of my older ships. We are complaining about the Galaxy-R.
You once again miss the point of what I am saying. I am simply saying why not give them a different TYPE of console. Yes it adds a console, but it adds one SPECIFICALLY for that cloak. How many times do I have to explain it? Should I draw a picture? Or can you please look more than 2 millimeters past your own nose and actually keep on open mind to what I am suggesting?
I am not forcing you to use the cloak. I am simply offering an alternative to what they currently have. You can either use the cloak or not use it. In your case I honestly don't care. But I am just giving a way for you to use said cloak without having to sacrifice one of your standard consoles to do so.
WALL OF TEXT ALERT.
I understood you perfectly. But what I am also pointing out is that if you look at a lot of these ships, they are gaining a tier or two, in fact many of these retrofits are Vice Admiral, making them tier 5, whereas their originals often are not. So the addition of a console is expected, if for no reason than to make them able to be competitive with existing tier 5 ships.
However due to the design, many of these added consoles as you said are there for the abilities, which reduces the overall capability of the ship, since you then have to sacrifice that console slot for the ability. This is especially true of ships that have multiple consoles to give them set bonuses, like the bort and oddy. All I am suggesting is that we keep the standard console slot so that they are like tier 5 ships with I believe 9 or 10 consoles like every other tier 5 ship, but still be able to use the abilities without taking away from those 9 or 10 consoles, therefore allowing those ships to keep up with other tier 5 ships.
Allow me to give you an example if you will. The Odysseys. They are actually rather nice ships, both stat-wise (considering their roles) and aesthetically they aren't terrible. They have a nice chunk of base health and come with an assortment of 10 consoles based on what particular Odyssey you are using. Each one also comes with it's own unique console, the Aquarius with the Tactical version, the Chevron Separation with the Operations version, and the Worker Bees with the Science version. Now in order to get the set bonus, which isn't that bad actually (albeit not that great), you must use all 3 consoles, thus giving the Odyssey you are currently using the combined abilities of all 3 ships.
Here's the kicker though. In order to do this, you MUST sacrifice 3 of your consoles, turning this 10 console tier 5 ship into a 7 console tier 5 ship. Now correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that most TIER 3 ships have 7 consoles. So you just took a wonderful 10 console ship that can hold it's head high and say it's TIER 5, and slapped it in the face and reduced it to a TIER 3 for a bonus that really is not worth losing all those consoles.
My suggestion (not demand as you seem to want to see it as) is that we take away that slap in the face and give it back it's 3 console slots, thus allowing it to be a tier 5 ship again, and STILL allow for you to be rewarded for having put in the effort to get all 3 ships and in doing so get the set bonus. That's all.
Also with your argument about the separation and anti-matter console? I never said that the ability console slot be limited to just one console, or that it be specific to each particular console, like saying that SEPARATION ONLY or something like that. That would be unfair, since it would force players to give up abilities each ship could have. What I was proposing and perhaps didn't put enough detail into since I didn't want to bore the readers to death with a wall of text, was that you have a SET of console slots geared towards that particular ship class, allowing for consoles for THAT ship to be put there.
Take your Galaxy example, since that's OP anyways. I would have it have ability console SLOTS and have them simply say Galaxy Consoles. And I would put multiples, maxing out with whatever the current number of Galaxy only consoles there are, and allow you to put ANY of the Galaxy/Venture/Whatever the hell you are flying consoles into those slots. That way you could pick and choose what abilities you wanted, OR just say to heck with it and use ALL of them, without sacrificing ANY of the combat ability of the ship.
THAT is what I was proposing, not asking them to force players into doing something they don't want to. It would maintain flexibility, and allow each player to design the ship as he/she sees fit.
And yes, I know what argument is coming next. "What if everyone then just puts ALL of them on and flies this OP monster around?" Well then that's kudos to them for having spent all that money and time to get all the consoles, so maybe they deserve to have an OP monster. Or maybe what is said here really doesn't matter since I know the devs don't read it, so it won't change jack squat, so why are you worried? Afraid of a little change?
Actualy the retrofit is not the san pablo. The retrofis is the old VA ship while the refit is tha san pablo. And the refit os the only vessel he listed in his example that can be claimed before level 50.
You could try an emitter amplifier or emitter array console, The former will boost the native regeneration the latter will boost all of your shield healing abilities. Adding a tac team and some tac team doffs will aloow you to use tac team every 15 seconds and will help keep your shields up along with a slight damage boost. Native shield damage resistance increased as your shield power levels increase (35% at 125 power I think) so consider reducing power elsewhere to boost your shield power levels. The main thing to keep in mind is that you will end up being a more supportive role than in almost anything else and its best to play the R like you play a science ship.
As for abilitys getting their own slot, Some should remain console powers, but some could be turned into device powers and make sence. Some examples; cloaking"device", worker bees, nadeon detonator, photonic displacer, impulse capacitence cell, enhanced plasma manifold, plasmonic leech etc. you will still have to make a choice as to what you equip but it also allows you to use more of these abilitys and not reduce your effectiveness.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
As they should be. Working as intended. Carry on.
I just don't understand the need to make the Galaxy class look as weak as possible. Starting with ST: Generations, where they destroyed the Enterprise - D as stupid and undeserving as possible, just to introduce a new ship that resembles Kirks ship much more, so every moronic cinemagoer notices that ST: First Contact is a Star Trek movie.
(someone really must have been thinking Star Trek wouldn't work without a "kirk" reference :mad:)
The Enterprise -D could have easily lasted to ST:X and beyond, if the producers wheren't as bubbleheaded as they are.
(in the end of Generations, the Enterprise - D could have been heavy damaged so they could have made a more detailed/modernized Galaxy Class model for the next move, problem solved.)
ST: VII would have bee awesome with the Enterprise -D, btw.
Since then the Galaxy Class was shown as inferior to the Sovereign as possible, ending as a flying moitionless brick with no firepower as we have it in this game.
The devs should release a "special 25th century refit" Galaxy Class (or whatever they may call it), with a similar BOFF layout like the regent Class. To be honest, the BOFF layout of all Galaxy Variants are a joke in this game.
It just makes me sick seeing that ship being so badly wrong made. Especially since some people are actually starting to believe that the Galaxy Class really was that weak.
Live long and prosper.
The Galaxy is an "exploration" type cruiser, its purpose was discussed as such in "Encounter at Farpoint" and beyond. The boff layout is the layout a standard cruiser should have and is the natural progression of the cruiser class. I think the Galaxy should have started out with more hull than the Sovy' to keep it with the "brick cruiser" aspect. Its th RA up support cruiser of the game.
I do agree that saucer separation is next to absurd as is. The Gal-X should've had the Regents layout for boffs though.
Since the Galaxy class is a Exploration cruiser it should have at least have a Lt. Cmdr universal, so it can operate much more effective on it's own and adapt to much more differend types of missions, without rely on other ships.
I never understood whats so great about flying "bricks" with no firepower, they are just big target practices, nothing else.
While the Galaxy is the jack of all trades, the sovereign should be a bit lighter and SLIGHTLY more maneuverable, nothing more.
The Galaxy - X should be the heaviest ship of them, having slightly more hull HP, but also slight less maneuverable as the galaxy Class.
Their BOFF layout should be the same on all three of these ship types IMHO, to represent starfleet top cruisers versality.
Live long and prosper.
Actually, if you think about it, each ship would have LESS than a third of the whole ships power, with each section have to power up systems that would have been a redundancy on the ship when it is in one peice.
You must realize that the BOFF setup don't allow the Galaxy to use affective science abilities and the best I can do is send a bunch of torpedo at people, hoping to catch their shields down. That not much of any role and when the enemy turns on me i can't do anything to defend myself.
Im not so sold on that idea of a Lt. Commander Universal. The Galaxy is be more of a supporting role ship than a combat role ship, acting as an anchor for a group ( sporting buffs and debuffs for the group). The R can support other ships in its group with hull/shield heals and other buffs/debuffs like pretty much no other ship can (save probably the Odyssey).
The Sovy/Excel hulls are for the extra firepower, the R is pretty much the ultimate healboat/aoe ship a cruiser can offer.
Use your R to keep the dps ships rolling while you help knock the tartgeted ships shields down with beams and dps support with the torps
Whats an "effective science ability"? There are plenty good ensign and lt. science skills boffs use.
No, the canon Galaxy is not a support ship. Its a ship that can hold its own without reinforcements. In DS9 they were wing leaders, which are Command ships, not support ships. Support ships do miniscule task that are job specific like drop mine, or hunt for cloaked ships, ferry supplies. In the canon world, escorts are support ships and the not guns of the fleet. We already know this game don't follow canon but at least they can make the Galaxy like it should be, up there with the Oddyssey.
My ships, beams are not strong enogh to do damage to players shields. Thats why i made this thread because the Galaxy-R is too weak.
I also agree with alexindcobras post, the Galaxy-Class is not your average support vessel, this is where the game get's it totally wrong. It is "the" Galaxy-Class. Sure, the new designs are "better" (although maybe just more specialized, the sovy is a combat oriented ship and the oddy is just overkill), but it is THE command vessel of the 24th century. It shouldn't be THAT outclassed in the very early 25th century. Hell, even the excelsior is still around and worth more. At some point, we'll get the Ambassador. What'll happen then?
EDIT: Though, I come to realize that arguing this way won't get you anywhere in STO. STOs own story proclaims that Starfleet invests ressources and manpower to construct replica of the NX-class XD.
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Cryptics devs have degenerated the Galaxy class into a ship that is NOT anything like it was on TV.
If they would have made this ship more true to as it was intended, then it would be the best singleplayer ship in the Game, able to take care of itself, with limited support abilities but with a insane amount of versality, good survivability and good firepower (at least more Firepower than a Excelsior).
But it wouldn't be a slow flying brick without any significant firepower.
Lol, with only one Lt. tactical?
Every other ship can do that better. Even a Intrepid can have more offensive power with the right science powers.
That Saucer seperation is just a cheap excuse for the devs not to give the Galaxy class more firepower, it is just useless because you can't even use your ship as a reasonable torpedo boat, you just don't have enough tac BOFF slots for that.
Using your energy weapons to do dps?
Sorry but i had to laugh...
I would suggest that the devs should introduce a ship of their own design to become a "brick" or ultimate Tank or whatever you want to call it.
I wouldn't care if they would use one of their designs to fill that role, but i want my galaxy to be useful in that "role" we have seen it for so many years.
Additionally they should give us finally a Galaxy class that is more versatile and has more Firepower that that thing we have in the game.
Live long and prosper.
Powering weapons and shields does not require a warp core. Warp core is precisely for that: warp. Trek ships have fusion reactors that power the ship's systems..the warp drive is the one that requires the antimatter power generation.
Of course, when the ship is 'whole' the antimatter power is used for the ship as well...but the fusion reactors provide the 'operational' power for impulse, shields and life support.
Its why in trek you hear 'reactors are offline' not 'warp core is offline' when they have troubles with shields,life support,etc.
as per above, the non-warp power is from fusion reactors. Most ships have three to provide multiple redundancy backups. I guess they thought one per ship section warranted the short term ability to come at the enemy from different angles. Who knows.
The Galaxy class was an exploration cruiser. As such it was not intended to be a warship. From the movies and tv series the enterprise-d really seems to have only had beam overload and torpedo spread.
The Galaxy does excel in surviving punishment while it takes down its opponents. Probably not very tv canon like but then again, Picard never faced a ship that was much superior to his own and the only times he was outnumbered he ended up running away or having his own backup ships in place.
Come to think of it, the only time the enterprise D got clobbered or nearly defeated was through subterfuge or by some space monster...but never a stronger ship.
No, negative! Obviously you have not been looking at Star Trek. Otherwise you would know that the Akira, Steamrunner, Defiant, Norway, and one more little ship ( that I can't remember the name of, right now) are escorts. They were no super strong ships, otherwise they wouldn't have needed the Enterprise E to come save the day. Remember the Defiant Class, USS Valiant, that tried to take on the Dominion Dreadnought but was destroyed with ease. Miranda's could also be classed as escorts because in battle they fly on flanks of more important ships to protect them. Thats escort duty. The Prometheus was an escort not just to destroy one type of ship, but it given the abilty to attack a single target from different angles and also numbers, turnig it from one ship to three.
And, yes the Galaxy should be up there with the Oddyssey in role, because its the only canon ship that fits that role. I'm not asking for it to have smae abilities as the Oddy but at least have the abilities from the show.The Oddyssey is not canon, and is only a creation of Devs in this game. How do we let a created ship dethrone an Iconic canon ship in its role? How do we make older ships like Excelsior and B'rel out perform the Galaxy? Hull don't matter much in the game because players in escorts can perform "crit"DPS attacks that excedes your hitpoints, so if you can't shield tank then you are not tanking at all.
I think that would bring us nowhere, TBH. What about the numerous Warbirds, what about the unknow ship in "the survivors" (3x03) for instance the Enterprise surely didn't run away from them.
(we shouldn't forget that in those times battle scenes where much more expensive as in Later series. If they would do that series today or at least some years later, i think we could have seen the Galaxy Class do much more space Combat.)
Think about the Galaxy Class ships we saw in the battles of DS9, they surely weren't just flying bricks without firepower. They where the center of a Battlegroup featuring the heaviest Firepower surrounded by support ships and other cruisers. They where the real hard hitting Starfleet ships in those Battles. If they would to flown those degenerated Galaxy classes as we do in STO, the Dominion War would have ended quite different.
Very true. But it also could deal some serious damage if a situation required it.
Think about the first encounter with the (not yet fully adapted) Borg, Enterprises Phasers blasted a huge hole into that Cube as if it where butter.
Live long and prosper.