The Galaxy class will never be properly fixed. I've advocated time and time again for a universal ensign and a third tactical console for the fleet version so that it matches the fleet Negh'var. Cryptic's official response in a radio interview was "DERP ITS FINE AS IT IS LOL", which proves that Cryptic doesn't care what the players think about this issue.
I am puzzling, why do they refuse to change this ship. Is it laziness, incompetence or do you think they just hate the Galaxy Class?
I just don't get it, there are more than enough people wanting this ship to be more like in the shows and the devs are just laughing and saying that is is ok as it is? (which is simply not true.)
@ yreodred: regarding the weapons my personal theory is that STO is more or less just a mod of "Champions online". I have never played that, but let's tone it down to the fact that STO basically just puts Star Trek-themed skins over an existing game and in this game you probably have all those weapon choices that they somehow had to "translate" to a Star Trek game. Why on earth they decided that Miniguns, Blast Assault Rifles, Plasma Grenades and all that stuff had to be in this game is anyones guess but it may be just a result of the limited possibliites the DEVs had to work with. Who knows...
I think they did what they always do, they just add things they think are "cool".
They don't care about what would be appropriate to Star Trek, they just add what they like.
The devs of STO treat Star Trek as if it where there own creation, i think CBS or whoever has the rights on Star Trek should keep an rigorous eye on this game.
Other francises are much better "protected" just think about Lord of the Rings. There are actually a lot of people that boycott Peter Jacksons movies. What would those people do if they where Star trek fans and had to see what Cryptic has done to "their" Star Trek?
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You can not compare ship performance using hit point numbers, shield mod numbers and default turnrates. If that were so, escorts would be the worst ships to play in the game, but that's not the case. Its after you add in your best skill tree set up, consoles and equipment then those default stats change. The Galaxy-R fairs the worst out of all the cruisers. You can put in the Galaxy-R the exact same equipment you put in your Dreadnought and you well see that Galaxy-r shield and weapon power far less and the shield will be squishier. That's why you have to test things, don't just believe the stats on it first.
Actualy I was comparing the base stats only since the difference between the BOff setups is just an ensign and I mentioned this here "The only real difference between these ships in the ensign level BO slot. So the real problem is the same as the defiant r and the intrepid r, there arent enough useful ensign level powers to really use 3 ensign slots for one career.". I went on to suggest how to make it stronger "A simple solution would be to allow you to use any costume on the t5 and up cuisers."(snip). As for testing I own all of the ships in question and don't generaly find my shields any weaker than in any other ship. What i do find is that combat takes longer and I lack a diversity in my healing abilitys. Mainly its due to the global cool downs on most engineering abilitys. An example is in a Dread I can run; 2 epts 1's 2 tt 1's 1 rsp 1 or 2 and a TS1 giving me at any time 3 shield heals and 1 shield buff. on a galaxy I can only run one TT so I loose that and with all ept powers on a shared cool down the only thing available for an 3rd ensign engineer is an ET 1 which is useless for shield healing and generaly useless for any meaningful hull heal it will also put my TT into cooldown.
The fact is that no evidence has been provided to support your theory that the galaxy R is some how weaker stat wise and with no evidence to suggest that it's base stats are different from that of any of the other cruisers I compared it with what we are left with is only your general impression that it is some how inferior. I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign.
It should be as powerful as in the show, but understandably it can't. I don't see the Galaxy inferior but that ensign slot bugs me as hell. There are two solutions to this problem:
1) Make the ensign slot universal, or
2) Introduce new abilities an engineering ensign can use. Right now scientists and tacticians have a wider spectrum of choices which means less cooldown conflicts.
It should be as powerful as in the show, but understandably it can't. I don't see the Galaxy inferior but that ensign slot bugs me as hell. There are two solutions to this problem:
1) Make the ensign slot universal, or
2) Introduce new abilities an engineering ensign can use. Right now scientists and tacticians have a wider spectrum of choices which means less cooldown conflicts.
Consider this, it may well be just as powerful as it was in the show but almost 50 years have passed and we are several generations of shipping in the future so everything its being compared to is just more powerful than it ever was.
Also the ensign powers need looked at across the board, engineering may be the worst but generaly there aren't very many utility powers available below LT.
Tactical has beam, torpedo, and team powers at ensign and they only share a cool down with like systems so its only a real problem if you aren't using one of those weapons types
Science probably has the most variety but 3 of the powers are almost useless.
Engineering really gets the shaft with 4 of its 5 available powers all sharing a cooldown and its only other power sharing a cool down with the other 2 discipline's utility powers.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
Then you should read the thread more closely. The suggestions were in fact a universal ensign slot, a built-in ability for the seperation and a slight energy boost other T5 STORE ships share. The Gal-R is a ship you have to spent money, at least Zen, on, yet there is no justification as to why it get's so ill treated in comparision.
Yes, it is a retrofit and newer ugly ships Cryptic creates should be "better" - no one argues with that, the base stats are actually fine. But they could make it somehow worthwhile with those iprovements (ensign slot, ability, energy boni) OR just add it to the ships players can get for a token or via dilithium. Buying this ship makes no sense.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Then you should read the thread more closely. The suggestions were in fact a universal ensign slot, a built-in ability for the seperation and a slight energy boost other T5 STORE ships share. The Gal-R is a ship you have to spent money, at least Zen, on, yet there is no justification as to why it get's so ill treated in comparision.
Yes, it is a retrofit and newer ugly ships Cryptic creates should be "better" - no one argues with that, the base stats are actually fine. But they could make it somehow worthwhile with those iprovements (ensign slot, ability, energy boni) OR just add it to the ships players can get for a token or via dilithium. Buying this ship makes no sense.
In your quote of my quote I did mention the universal ensign. And if your a 600 day veteran you can get this ship for free (prior to F2P it was free anyway.). If its saucer seperation were an integrated ability that means the cheveron sep would have to be for the oddy. A universal ensign would be nice but then the Negh'var has the same layout so does it get one too? its also one of the cheeper ships so why should it carry the same value as the more expensive ones?
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
There's also a fleet version of Galaxy, so the separation has to be bound to a console.
The sauser separation should be a natural ship ability and not a console. The Fleet version should have its own as well, because the console can't be used in another type ship. Only Galaxy's can use that Sauser seperation console. The cosonles should be abilities that any ship can use and the are rarely used like AMS, Theta Radiation, Takyon Grid, Aceton Assimilator and instead of the sauser separation, use the massive energy discharge that was used to try to destroy the Borg Cube but was prevented by Locutas. Those are rarely used abilities in the show and can be used one anyship.
The sauser separation should be a natural ship ability and not a console. The Fleet version should have its own as well, because the console can't be used in another type ship. Only Galaxy's can use that Sauser seperation console. The cosonles should be abilities that any ship can use and the are rarely used like AMS, Theta Radiation, Takyon Grid, Aceton Assimilator and instead of the sauser separation, use the massive energy discharge that was used to try to destroy the Borg Cube but was prevented by Locutas. Those are rarely used abilities in the show and can be used one anyship.
Only galaxys can use THAT seperation console the oddy has the same thing. And no c-store ship past RA or BG has a console that can be used on other ships. AMS is a galaxy console and can be used on any other ship regardless. And cryptic has said that c-store ships with innate abilitys will never have fleet versions. BTW AMS theta radiation and asceton assimilator are used constantly. The tachyon grid is broken at the moment which is why no one uses it. Also saucer sep, detection grid, ablative generator, and the 2 fed cloaking ships used to be innate powers pre F2P they were removed and a console slot was added as well as the power being changed to a console. So if you want to go back you are still out that console slot.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
In your quote of my quote I did mention the universal ensign. And if your a 600 day veteran you can get this ship for free (prior to F2P it was free anyway.). If its saucer seperation were an integrated ability that means the cheveron sep would have to be for the oddy. A universal ensign would be nice but then the Negh'var has the same layout so does it get one too? its also one of the cheeper ships so why should it carry the same value as the more expensive ones?
Well, I don't count the veteran reward as a legitimate bonus. 600-day-veterancy equals roughly 20 months of payment which is around 300 $ (!!!) - for "free"...
Yes, it was a free VA-ship prior to F2P (I was a subscriber back in the days) - but now it's not anymore. 600-day reward see above. And yes, let the oddysey have that, too. Why not? Grant the Bortas some built-in ability too, of course. A universal ensign for the negh'var would be nice indeed, but keep in mind that the negh'var is a FREE ship. The Gal-R isn't.
And even though it's 500Z cheaper than an oddysey (which is a weak argument since the only ships the Gal can compete with are FREE ones) no one says that it should get exactly the same or be superior to any of the more expensive ones. Plain energy boni, universal ensign, built-in ability. Everything else can stay the same.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Well, I don't count the veteran reward as a legitimate bonus. 600-day-veterancy equals roughly 20 months of payment which is around 300 $ (!!!) - for "free"...
Yes, it was a free VA-ship prior to F2P (I was a subscriber back in the days) - but now it's not anymore. 600-day reward see above. And yes, let the oddysey have that, too. Why not? Grant the Bortas some built-in ability too, of course. A universal ensign for the negh'var would be nice indeed, but keep in mind that the negh'var is a FREE ship. The Gal-R isn't.
And even though it's 500Z cheaper than an oddysey (which is a weak argument since the only ships the Gal can compete with are FREE ones) no one says that it should get exactly the same or be superior to any of the more expensive ones. Plain energy boni, universal ensign, built-in ability. Everything else can stay the same.
Well if you gave the oddy pr thej bort one of their abilitys build in you break them.
That aside what ive been saying is the only thing that needs to be done is add mor useful ensign level powers. If you had better choices for that 3rd ensigh you could then be more effective. As I stated, the engineer ensign gets the fewest available powers so this is why it seems the galaxy is weaker than the other cruisers. The fact that it was one and to some extent is still free is why most of whats being requested will never happen, there is no money in it. Compared to ships in its price range (which is where I was comparing it)its exactly even in terms of power and utility.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Actualy I was comparing the base stats only since the difference between the BOff setups is just an ensign and I mentioned this here "The only real difference between these ships in the ensign level BO slot. So the real problem is the same as the defiant r and the intrepid r, there arent enough useful ensign level powers to really use 3 ensign slots for one career.". I went on to suggest how to make it stronger "A simple solution would be to allow you to use any costume on the t5 and up cuisers."(snip). As for testing I own all of the ships in question and don't generaly find my shields any weaker than in any other ship. What i do find is that combat takes longer and I lack a diversity in my healing abilitys. Mainly its due to the global cool downs on most engineering abilitys. An example is in a Dread I can run; 2 epts 1's 2 tt 1's 1 rsp 1 or 2 and a TS1 giving me at any time 3 shield heals and 1 shield buff. on a galaxy I can only run one TT so I loose that and with all ept powers on a shared cool down the only thing available for an 3rd ensign engineer is an ET 1 which is useless for shield healing and generaly useless for any meaningful hull heal it will also put my TT into cooldown.
The fact is that no evidence has been provided to support your theory that the galaxy R is some how weaker stat wise and with no evidence to suggest that it's base stats are different from that of any of the other cruisers I compared it with what we are left with is only your general impression that it is some how inferior. I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
Evidence don't come with the stats because when look at your status screen showing shield face HP, resistance, recharge, and power levels, they well say one thing and yet when you play, they will perform not according to the stats. I have my Dreadnought and Galaxy-R set up exactly the same way accept for the extra Tac console. The extra tac console is a prefire chamber for cannons so it shouldn't make my phaser beams more powerful the the Galax-R with two Phaser weapon consoles. Both of their power levels are the exact same, 125. When I play, my Dreadnought phaser beams on the rear really wear down the enemy shields and hull, while my Galaxy-R( while having 3 more beams broadsiding) srtuggle to wear down the enemy's shields, let alone the their hull. My shields HP are the same on both ships and are the same type of covarient shield lvl12 with plasma resistance yet my shield is less resistant in action and wears away faster than my Dreadnought. You see, evidence is not in the game stats, it's in the programing. The stats match but the performance is different. The Devs programed the Galaxy to be weaker, no matter what you put in it.
1) Are you using saucer seperation?
2) Is your weapon power set to TRIBBLE/100?
3) Are you running dual copies of EPtW?
If the answer to any of those three questions is a "No", then you're doing it wrong, it'd not the ship that's the problem, it'd be YOU!
Saucer Seperation gives +10 Weapon Power. That's not much less increase over cruiser baseline as another Tac Console would be. Or from an other perspective: with Saucer Seperation, you total +15 Weapon Power, same as an Escort(!).
If your weapon power is low, then your weapons won't deal damage. Especially on a cruiser with 4+4 weapon slots.
EPtW gives another boost to weapon power, buffering the drain that a cruiser's loadout will inevitably cause.
(Yes, power over 125 has an effect! It counters drain. Very useful if shooting multiple weapons.)
But, for yet another persepctive:
Current DPS-potential of all T5 non-fleet Cruisers, assuming 6-beam configs.
#11: (Mirror) Star Cruiser. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +5 Power. The Cruiser baseline.
#10: Galaxy-R. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. ~10% improvement over baseline.
#9: (Mirror) Assault Cruiser. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt.+Ens. Tac, +5 Power. About 5% improvement over the Galaxy-R.
#8: Excelsior-R. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr Tac, +5 Power. Less than 5% improvement over the Assault Cruiser.
#7: Ops-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. Less than 5% improvement over the Excelsior-R.
#5A: Regent. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universal), +10 Power. About 5% improvement over the Ops-Ody.
#5B: Tac-Odissey. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power. Ties with the Regent.
#4 Sci-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac, +0 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to ~10% improvement over the Tac-Odissey, but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#3 Tac-Odissey /w Ops-Console. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +20 Power. Minor increase over Sci-Ody peak damage, but constant; also: can cheat and use 7- or 8-beam setups.
#2 Sci-Odissey /w Ops Console. 2 Tac Consoles, CCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to 10% improvement over Tac-Ody (6-beam) and very minor increase over Tac-Ody (7/8-beam), but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#1 Dreadnought. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +5 Power, Phaser Lance, cheats by using DCs/DHCs+Turrets.
#0 Dreadnought /w Saucer Seperation (to be released yet). 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +15 Power, Phaser Shotgun, uses DCs/DHCs+Turrets. Equals or even exceeds KDF Battle Cruisers.
Now .... where excactly do you want the Galaxy-R to come in?
Above the ship that replaced it? (Sovereign)
Above the ship that was originally designed as a Tactical Fast Response Cruiser, and refitted for that same purpose when the Galaxy was already in service? (Excelsior)
Above the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Ody)
Above the state-of-the-art-2409-refit of the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Regent)
Above the $50 P2W version of the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Tac/Sci-Ody /w Ops console)
Or even above the UFP Battle Cruiser from another timeline? (Dread)
Let's be real honest: compared to all the other T5 cruisers, the Galaxy is excactly where it should be.
And the differences between each of them is barely noticeable already, it's just that looking from the bottom upwards makes it seem that way, though the total range is something like +70% over baseline, no more (~3k dps for a baseline Star Cruiser, up to ~5k dps for a KDF Battle Cruiser of comperable gear). It's not even possible to have them closer together without turning it into a same/same with different skins.
Evidence don't come with the stats because when look at your status screen showing shield face HP, resistance, recharge, and power levels, they well say one thing and yet when you play, they will perform not according to the stats. I have my Dreadnought and Galaxy-R set up exactly the same way accept for the extra Tac console. The extra tac console is a prefire chamber for cannons so it shouldn't make my phaser beams more powerful the the Galax-R with two Phaser weapon consoles. Both of their power levels are the exact same, 125. When I play, my Dreadnought phaser beams on the rear really wear down the enemy shields and hull, while my Galaxy-R( while having 3 more beams broadsiding) srtuggle to wear down the enemy's shields, let alone the their hull. My shields HP are the same on both ships and are the same type of covarient shield lvl12 with plasma resistance yet my shield is less resistant in action and wears away faster than my Dreadnought. You see, evidence is not in the game stats, it's in the programing. The stats match but the performance is different. The Devs programed the Galaxy to be weaker, no matter what you put in it.
More weapons firing means more drain which mean your weapons won't hit as hard. What are you using in your tac ensign slots on the dread? Why are you gimping your dread with a prefire chamber? On your R what are you running in your engineering ensign slots? Where are you putting the sep console, and what are you sacraficing for it?
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Consider this, it may well be just as powerful as it was in the show but almost 50 years have passed and we are several generations of shipping in the future so everything its being compared to is just more powerful than it ever was.
Also the ensign powers need looked at across the board, engineering may be the worst but generaly there aren't very many utility powers available below LT.
Tactical has beam, torpedo, and team powers at ensign and they only share a cool down with like systems so its only a real problem if you aren't using one of those weapons types
Science probably has the most variety but 3 of the powers are almost useless.
Engineering really gets the shaft with 4 of its 5 available powers all sharing a cooldown and its only other power sharing a cool down with the other 2 discipline's utility powers.
Contradicting yourself, you forgot about the tier 5 B'rel Bird of prey, Defiant, Prometheus, Excelsior-Ret, Nehg'var, K'tinga, Vorcha, D'kora Ferangi ship, Galor, and the Jem'hadar attack ship. Those are all tier 5 designs that are over 50 years old yet they bring alot of power and damage with them. Some are actually over a hundred years old, like the B'rel, K'ting, and the Excelsior. The Jem'hadar attack ship didn't have cannons in the show but single beams, forward and aft, and it was not a tough ship, just mass produced. If humans or other sentient beings use and old body design, its is known that they would upgrade them to current spects to use them for current situations. Just step outside of your house for once and look at the real world and think of all the old things we still use but have upgaded them to current safety and perfomance standards. Example, I just got out the Army and know that the M1 Abrams tank was made for the 80's but 30 years later, we are still using it. Keeping the same body, we just upgraded the systems to be more computerized to perfom faster and better.
Only galaxys can use THAT seperation console the oddy has the same thing. And no c-store ship past RA or BG has a console that can be used on other ships. AMS is a galaxy console and can be used on any other ship regardless. And cryptic has said that c-store ships with innate abilitys will never have fleet versions. BTW AMS theta radiation and asceton assimilator are used constantly. The tachyon grid is broken at the moment which is why no one uses it. Also saucer sep, detection grid, ablative generator, and the 2 fed cloaking ships used to be innate powers pre F2P they were removed and a console slot was added as well as the power being changed to a console. So if you want to go back you are still out that console slot.
Dude, read the whole sentence before you answer with an argument. I said those abilities are rarely used in the "Show", duh.
Contradicting yourself, you forgot about the tier 5 B'rel Bird of prey, Defiant, Prometheus, Excelsior-Ret, Nehg'var, K'tinga, Vorcha, D'kora Ferangi ship, Galor, and the Jem'hadar attack ship. Those are all tier 5 designs that are over 50 years old yet they bring alot of power and damage with them. Some are actually over a hundred years old, like the B'rel, K'ting, and the Excelsior. The Jem'hadar attack ship didn't have cannons in the show but single beams, forward and aft, and it was not a tough ship, just mass produced. If humans or other sentient beings use and old body design, its is known that they would upgrade them to current spects to use them for current situations. Just step outside of your house for once and look at the real world and think of all the old things we still use but have upgaded them to current safety and perfomance standards. Example, I just got out the Army and know that the M1 Abrams tank was made for the 80's but 30 years later, we are still using it. Keeping the same body, we just upgraded the systems to be more computerized to perfom faster and better.
Actualy that was a seperate comment directed toward a canon reason for this and onlt this ship. In startrek the age of the ship rarely makes a difference. And in STO they are merely costumes to begin with as the monarch and celestial are supposed to be modern versions of the galaxy. But this does highlight that canon and STO have little to do with eachother so trying to adapt canon reasoning is pointless. In the end i stand by my claims that it isn't the ship its the lack of utility in the lower level powers.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
1) Are you using saucer seperation?
2) Is your weapon power set to TRIBBLE/100?
3) Are you running dual copies of EPtW?
If the answer to any of those three questions is a "No", then you're doing it wrong, it'd not the ship that's the problem, it'd be YOU!
Saucer Seperation gives +10 Weapon Power. That's not much less increase over cruiser baseline as another Tac Console would be. Or from an other perspective: with Saucer Seperation, you total +15 Weapon Power, same as an Escort(!).
If your weapon power is low, then your weapons won't deal damage. Especially on a cruiser with 4+4 weapon slots.
EPtW gives another boost to weapon power, buffering the drain that a cruiser's loadout will inevitably cause.
(Yes, power over 125 has an effect! It counters drain. Very useful if shooting multiple weapons.)
for yet another persepctive:
Current DPS-potential of all T5 non-fleet Cruisers, assuming 6-beam configs.
#11: (Mirror) Star Cruiser. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +5 Power. The Cruiser baseline.
#10: Galaxy-R. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. ~10% improvement over baseline.
#9: (Mirror) Assault Cruiser. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt.+Ens. Tac, +5 Power. About 5% improvement over the Galaxy-R.
#8: Excelsior-R. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr Tac, +5 Power. Less than 5% improvement over the Assault Cruiser.
#7: Ops-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. Less than 5% improvement over the Excelsior-R.
#5A: Regent. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universal), +10 Power. About 5% improvement over the Ops-Ody.
#5B: Tac-Odissey. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power. Ties with the Regent.
#4 Sci-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac, +0 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to ~10% improvement over the Tac-Odissey, but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#3 Tac-Odissey /w Ops-Console. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +20 Power. Minor increase over Sci-Ody peak damage, but constant; also: can cheat and use 7- or 8-beam setups.
#2 Sci-Odissey /w Ops Console. 2 Tac Consoles, CCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to 10% improvement over Tac-Ody (6-beam) and very minor increase over Tac-Ody (7/8-beam), but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#1 Dreadnought. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +5 Power, Phaser Lance, cheats by using DCs/DHCs+Turrets.
#0 Dreadnought /w Saucer Seperation (to be released yet). 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +15 Power, Phaser Shotgun, uses DCs/DHCs+Turrets. Equals or even exceeds KDF Battle Cruisers.
Now .... where excactly do you want the Galaxy-R to come in?
Above the ship that replaced it? (Sovereign)
Above the ship that was originally designed as a Tactical Fast Response Cruiser, and refitted for that same purpose when the Galaxy was already in service? (Excelsior)
Above the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Ody)
Above the state-of-the-art-2409-refit of the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Regent)
Above the $50 P2W version of the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Tac/Sci-Ody /w Ops console)
Or even above the UFP Battle Cruiser from another timeline? (Dread)
Let's be real honest: compared to all the other T5 cruisers, the Galaxy is excactly where it should be.
And the differences between each of them is barely noticeable already, it's just that looking from the bottom upwards makes it seem that way, though the total range is something like +70% over baseline, no more (~3k dps for a baseline Star Cruiser, up to ~5k dps for a KDF Battle Cruiser of comperable gear). It's not even possible to have them closer together without turning it into a same/same with different skins.
So, what excactly are you asking for?
You are wrong for assuming everyone on complaining about the Galaxy are idiots. We know the whats the stats say and what happens, when you separate the sauser. If my ship is at weapon power level 125 already before sauser separtaion, then what do you think it will add after separation? Nothing, because there is a power cap, duh. I have yet to see another player using the Galaxy-R in PVP not use sauser separation. Everybody knows, that once you die, you have to wait 5 minutes before you can separate and you will be stuck with slow turning "billboard" ship thats easy to kill.
You are wrong for assuming everyone on complaining about the Galaxy are idiots. We know the whats the stats say and what happens, when you separate the sauser. If my ship is at weapon power level 125 already before sauser separtaion, then what do you think it will add after separation? Nothing, because there is a power cap, duh. I have yet to see another player using the Galaxy-R in PVP not use sauser separation. Everybody knows, that once you die, you have to wait 5 minutes before you can separate and you will be stuck with slow turning "billboard" ship thats easy to kill.
See? You're wrong!
Weapon power is capped at 125, true, but excess power is used to counter drain. You could have read that in the quoted post already, but missed it.
Let's show you the difference:
Star Cruiser, +10 Power from skills, +5 from Cruiser, +5 from Borg Console
versus
Star Cruiser, +10 Power from skills, +5 from Cruiser, +5 from Borg Console, +20 from constant EPtW1.
#1 fire sequence: Beam1: 120 power, Beam2: 110 power, Beam 3: 100 power, Beam 4: 90 power, Beam 5: 80 power, Beam 6: 70 power, followed by 18 more shots at 70 power until all beams go on cooldown and power recovers. Average Power/shot: 76.25
#2 fire sequence: Beam 1: 125 power (of 140), Beam 2: 125 power (of 130), Beam 3: 120 power, Beam 4, 110 power, Beam 5: 100 power, Beam 6: 90 power, followed by 18 more shots at 90 power until all beams go on cooldown and power recovers. Average Power/shot: 95.42
An increase of 25.14% in damage!
Yes, it really does work that way! Try it!
That's what's causing most "whhhaaaaw. Cruisers suck! whhaaaaaw!"-threads.
People that don't get how power drain works.
And this one is no different.
Only galaxys can use THAT seperation console the oddy has the same thing. And no c-store ship past RA or BG has a console that can be used on other ships. AMS is a galaxy console and can be used on any other ship regardless. And cryptic has said that c-store ships with innate abilitys will never have fleet versions. BTW AMS theta radiation and asceton assimilator are used constantly. The tachyon grid is broken at the moment which is why no one uses it. Also saucer sep, detection grid, ablative generator, and the 2 fed cloaking ships used to be innate powers pre F2P they were removed and a console slot was added as well as the power being changed to a console. So if you want to go back you are still out that console slot.
Actually the Dreadnought didn't get an extra slot because it was already set up like the Assualt Cruisers. When they orignaly brought the Dreadnought they gave it only 4 forward weapons and 3 rear, just like the tier 4 Galaxy. That caused a big uproar and many people threatened to quit the game if they didn't change it. After that they set it up like the Assualt cruiser. Then F2P came and they try to trick people into thinking they gave you something new by givinging you old abilities that force you to use consoles. I was insulted by it because i knew that the cloak is mostly useless in battle and don't give much of an advantage to the Dreadnought, so I shelved that console and use prefire chamber to boost my cannons power and damage.
In the show, the takyon grid was initiaded by the Enterprise-D, and all the ships in that blockade fleet had the same ability, not just some science ship. ("Redemption II") If an ability is going to be in a console then it should be able to be used by any ship. If its going to be a ship classed ability then it should be a naturel ability.
Actually the Dreadnought didn't get an extra slot because it was already set up like the Assualt Cruisers. When they orignaly brought the Dreadnought they gave it only 4 forward weapons and 3 rear, just like the tier 4 Galaxy. That caused a big uproar and many people threatened to quit the game if they didn't change it. After that they set it up like the Assualt cruiser. Then F2P came and they try to trick people into thinking they gave you something new by givinging you old abilities that force you to use consoles. I was insulted by it because i knew that the cloak is mostly useless in battle and don't give much of an advantage to the Dreadnought, so I shelved that console and use prefire chamber to boost my cannons power and damage.
In the show, the takyon grid was initiaded by the Enterprise-D, and all the ships in that blockade fleet had the same ability, not just some science ship. ("Redemption II") If an ability is going to be in a console then it should be able to be used by any ship. If its going to be a ship classed ability then it should be a naturel ability.
Actualy it used to have only 2 tac consoles along with only 7 weapons. Are you using multiple energy types types? Still wondering about that prefire chamber.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
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More weapons firing means more drain which mean your weapons won't hit as hard. What are you using in your tac ensign slots on the dread? Why are you gimping your dread with a prefire chamber? On your R what are you running in your engineering ensign slots? Where are you putting the sep console, and what are you sacraficing for it?
I never said i sacrificed anthing for my sauser separation console. It goes right in the 3rd science slot like it was designed. My Eng ensign power is EPE1, because weapon and shield boost are covered by other 2 Eng BOFFs. My Dread is using 2 Phaser boost consoles, and 1 prefire chamber to boost cannons. The prefire chamber boost up the cannons fire better than just another phaser tac console. I have in front 1 phaser beam, 2 dual heavy phaser cannons, 1 phaser cannon. The rear have 3 phaser beams and one phaser turret.
My Galaxy-R has 3 phaser beams, and 1 Quantum torpedo laucher at forward, and in rear. My Tac consoles are 2 phaser weapons consoles to at least try to boost phaser power. I wish i had a third tac console to boost power for my torpedos.
Actualy it used to have only 2 tac consoles along with only 7 weapons. Are you using multiple energy types types? Still wondering about that prefire chamber.
Like i said, when Dreadnought first cam out it was set just like the tier 4 Galaxy, console layout and all, till people threatened to boycott the game, it got change to Assault Crusier layout. Even the skill tree back then was based on assault cruiser setup, but when F2P came the took that axtra weapon console and filled it with an ability that the ship already had. It didn't hurt me though because claoke because useless to me and i put the prefire chanmber there in its place. Now my cannons are almost 2,000 in damage. It also helped my turret so it can fire with DPS like an average phaser.
I never said i sacrificed anthing for my sauser separation console. It goes right in the 3rd science slot like it was designed. My Eng ensign power is EPE1, because weapon and shield boost are covered by other 2 Eng BOFFs. My Dread is using 2 Phaser boost consoles, and 1 prefire chamber to boost cannons. The prefire chamber boost up the cannons fire better than just another phaser tac console. I have in front 1 phaser beam, 2 dual heavy phaser cannons, 1 phaser cannon. The rear have 3 phaser beams and one phaser turret.
My Galaxy-R has 3 phaser beams, and 1 Quantum torpedo laucher at forward, and in rear. My Tac consoles are 2 phaser weapons consoles to at least try to boost phaser power. I wish i had a third tac console to boost power for my torpedos.
Since the skill tree revamp prefire chambers are useless. A mk X prefire chamber gives you a 14% damage increase with only cannon type weapons where as a mk x phaser relay gives you a 20.6% damage increase in all weapons using phaser type energy.
As for the R you are loosing the ability to slot a number of shield enhancing consoles in your 3rd science slot so yes there is a sacrafice there. 6 beam arrays is an enormus power drain broad side and only an engineer can really support it. Even then it takes some doing. I would suggest a DBB up front for a little extra punch heading into your target and maybe a EPTW to help with the power drain, EPTW also adds a 10% damage bonus.
Not saying your build is in any way bad just suggesting you tailor it to compensate for the things you find lacking.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
I never said i sacrificed anthing for my sauser separation console. It goes right in the 3rd science slot like it was designed. My Eng ensign power is EPE1, because weapon and shield boost are covered by other 2 Eng BOFFs. My Dread is using 2 Phaser boost consoles, and 1 prefire chamber to boost cannons. The prefire chamber boost up the cannons fire better than just another phaser tac console. I have in front 1 phaser beam, 2 dual heavy phaser cannons, 1 phaser cannon. The rear have 3 phaser beams and one phaser turret.
My Galaxy-R has 3 phaser beams, and 1 Quantum torpedo laucher at forward, and in rear. My Tac consoles are 2 phaser weapons consoles to at least try to boost phaser power. I wish i had a third tac console to boost power for my torpedos.
Where did you get that idea from?
It's wrong!
All +% damage is additive, not only from same type. That includes contributions from skills (Starship Weapon Training, Straship Energy Weapons). By using that prefire chamber you're losing dps.
That's also one common mistake, to overestimate the effect of one additional Tac console: skills already add nearly 200% base damage, so a single console makes it 300% -> 324% - an 8% increase. Even less if you already have two consoles.
Of course, this only makes your mistake with the prefire have very little effect - you lose less than 3% in dps. It's still a mistake.
I am puzzling, why do they refuse to change this ship. Is it laziness, incompetence or do you think they just hate the Galaxy Class?
I just don't get it, there are more than enough people wanting this ship to be more like in the shows and the devs are just laughing and saying that is is ok as it is? (which is simply not true.)
I really want to understand their motives.
Live long and prosper.[/COLOR][/FONT]
My personal opinion... you buy it from the store thinking woohoo i'm gonna be Picard! Then when you hate it you buy another ship from the store, so more money for cryptic.
Edited for clarity: my point being its not the Dev's fault, its the accountants.
Well if you gave the oddy pr thej bort one of their abilitys build in you break them.
You do have to pay 2500 zen for each one. And for having such a high cost they lose out on a console in order to be able to use an ability that SHOULD be natural, like the cloak on klingon ships. So I don't think you'd be breaking them, I think you would be making them back where they should have been to begin with.
If you don't make them natural, at least have a different set of slots for them, like carriers have hangar slots. That way PWE doesn't lose out on any money since you'd still need to buy each ship to get that special console, but you wouldn't lose out on ship power because you would retain your 10 standard console slots.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
My personal opinion... you buy it from the store thinking woohoo i'm gonna be Picard! Then when you hate it you buy another ship from the store, so more money for cryptic.
Edited for clarity: my point being its not the Dev's fault, its the accountants.
I think you have a point here.
But if the Devs would release something like a enhanced Galaxy class for the 25th anniversary of TNG, they could make money also PLUS it would make us happy.
I don't see their accountants being the bad guys here, the devs could easily introduce much more "realistic" shipclasses and make a lot of moola even so.
We are just a minority, most players are only looking at the stats of a ship IMO. Most players don't care if it is a Galaxy Class, Assault Cruiser or Odyssey Class, they will run after the next big released ship when it comes out.
But people like us, who really care about a special ship, will get seriously frustrated sooner or later and buy NO ship at all (or anything else anymore) and abandon this game entirely. I think the devs should think about this aspect once again IMHO.
Live long and prosper.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The only difference of the R and the X is the R have a extra Science console as the X have a extra Tactical Console.
And those extra consoles come when the abilities stop being build-in and became consoles, the Galaxy R only had 2 Science consoles and the Galaxy X only had 2 Tactical consoles.
IF they gone back to being build-in then you think the consoles would remain as they were? they would go back to the old number because you only have those consoles because of they stop being build-in and were turned into consoles.
So you want 3 Tactical consoles or 2 Tactical consoles and a Cloak? Because you are not going to get to have your cake and eat it too.
I think you are overlooking entirely what I said. If you read my WHOLE post, and not just the part you quoted, I was saying ALL ships with abilities like that should either A) Have them built in, like a Klingon cloak, or Have a SEPARATE console set for those abilities.
I was simply trying to offer up a way for people to have the abilities of these ships without losing out on the true potential of these ships and still enable PWE to make money, esp with abilities specific to those ships.
Allow me to clarify. I will use the tactical escort refit, retrofit, and fleet version as an example. All of them have X number of tac, engi, and sci slots (whatever they come with). But each of them also has an empty console slot in it's own category, called cloak. Now if you do it that way, PWE will still make their money, because you will still need to buy the retrofit to get the cloak, but if you do that, you now have this cloak console you can put in that separate console slot on ANY of those ships, giving you that nasty little cloak WITHOUT getting rid of some defense (sci/eng), attack power (tac), or utility (sci/eng) slot.
Another example, the Odysseys and Bortasque classes. They have their 10 consoles like we all love them for, and then 3 separate slots off in their own category. Each oddy/bort comes with it's console, and you can put it in that slot. That way PWE still forces you to get all 3 in order to use the oddy/bort set, but you can still use the oddy/bort set bonus and not lose out on ANY of your 10 consoles.
Basically what I propose is giving the ships back a little bit of their oomph (or in the case of ships that can carry multiple ability consoles, like the oddy and bort, a lot of their oomph).
So yes, I want my cake in order to eat it. Sorry bro.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Comments
I just don't get it, there are more than enough people wanting this ship to be more like in the shows and the devs are just laughing and saying that is is ok as it is?
(which is simply not true.)
I really want to understand their motives.
I think they did what they always do, they just add things they think are "cool".
They don't care about what would be appropriate to Star Trek, they just add what they like.
The devs of STO treat Star Trek as if it where there own creation, i think CBS or whoever has the rights on Star Trek should keep an rigorous eye on this game.
Other francises are much better "protected" just think about Lord of the Rings. There are actually a lot of people that boycott Peter Jacksons movies. What would those people do if they where Star trek fans and had to see what Cryptic has done to "their" Star Trek?
Live long and prosper.
Actualy I was comparing the base stats only since the difference between the BOff setups is just an ensign and I mentioned this here "The only real difference between these ships in the ensign level BO slot. So the real problem is the same as the defiant r and the intrepid r, there arent enough useful ensign level powers to really use 3 ensign slots for one career.". I went on to suggest how to make it stronger "A simple solution would be to allow you to use any costume on the t5 and up cuisers."(snip). As for testing I own all of the ships in question and don't generaly find my shields any weaker than in any other ship. What i do find is that combat takes longer and I lack a diversity in my healing abilitys. Mainly its due to the global cool downs on most engineering abilitys. An example is in a Dread I can run; 2 epts 1's 2 tt 1's 1 rsp 1 or 2 and a TS1 giving me at any time 3 shield heals and 1 shield buff. on a galaxy I can only run one TT so I loose that and with all ept powers on a shared cool down the only thing available for an 3rd ensign engineer is an ET 1 which is useless for shield healing and generaly useless for any meaningful hull heal it will also put my TT into cooldown.
The fact is that no evidence has been provided to support your theory that the galaxy R is some how weaker stat wise and with no evidence to suggest that it's base stats are different from that of any of the other cruisers I compared it with what we are left with is only your general impression that it is some how inferior. I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
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1) Make the ensign slot universal, or
2) Introduce new abilities an engineering ensign can use. Right now scientists and tacticians have a wider spectrum of choices which means less cooldown conflicts.
Consider this, it may well be just as powerful as it was in the show but almost 50 years have passed and we are several generations of shipping in the future so everything its being compared to is just more powerful than it ever was.
Also the ensign powers need looked at across the board, engineering may be the worst but generaly there aren't very many utility powers available below LT.
Tactical has beam, torpedo, and team powers at ensign and they only share a cool down with like systems so its only a real problem if you aren't using one of those weapons types
Science probably has the most variety but 3 of the powers are almost useless.
Engineering really gets the shaft with 4 of its 5 available powers all sharing a cooldown and its only other power sharing a cool down with the other 2 discipline's utility powers.
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Then you should read the thread more closely. The suggestions were in fact a universal ensign slot, a built-in ability for the seperation and a slight energy boost other T5 STORE ships share. The Gal-R is a ship you have to spent money, at least Zen, on, yet there is no justification as to why it get's so ill treated in comparision.
Yes, it is a retrofit and newer ugly ships Cryptic creates should be "better" - no one argues with that, the base stats are actually fine. But they could make it somehow worthwhile with those iprovements (ensign slot, ability, energy boni) OR just add it to the ships players can get for a token or via dilithium. Buying this ship makes no sense.
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In your quote of my quote I did mention the universal ensign. And if your a 600 day veteran you can get this ship for free (prior to F2P it was free anyway.). If its saucer seperation were an integrated ability that means the cheveron sep would have to be for the oddy. A universal ensign would be nice but then the Negh'var has the same layout so does it get one too? its also one of the cheeper ships so why should it carry the same value as the more expensive ones?
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The sauser separation should be a natural ship ability and not a console. The Fleet version should have its own as well, because the console can't be used in another type ship. Only Galaxy's can use that Sauser seperation console. The cosonles should be abilities that any ship can use and the are rarely used like AMS, Theta Radiation, Takyon Grid, Aceton Assimilator and instead of the sauser separation, use the massive energy discharge that was used to try to destroy the Borg Cube but was prevented by Locutas. Those are rarely used abilities in the show and can be used one anyship.
Only galaxys can use THAT seperation console the oddy has the same thing. And no c-store ship past RA or BG has a console that can be used on other ships. AMS is a galaxy console and can be used on any other ship regardless. And cryptic has said that c-store ships with innate abilitys will never have fleet versions. BTW AMS theta radiation and asceton assimilator are used constantly. The tachyon grid is broken at the moment which is why no one uses it. Also saucer sep, detection grid, ablative generator, and the 2 fed cloaking ships used to be innate powers pre F2P they were removed and a console slot was added as well as the power being changed to a console. So if you want to go back you are still out that console slot.
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Well, I don't count the veteran reward as a legitimate bonus. 600-day-veterancy equals roughly 20 months of payment which is around 300 $ (!!!) - for "free"...
Yes, it was a free VA-ship prior to F2P (I was a subscriber back in the days) - but now it's not anymore. 600-day reward see above. And yes, let the oddysey have that, too. Why not? Grant the Bortas some built-in ability too, of course. A universal ensign for the negh'var would be nice indeed, but keep in mind that the negh'var is a FREE ship. The Gal-R isn't.
And even though it's 500Z cheaper than an oddysey (which is a weak argument since the only ships the Gal can compete with are FREE ones) no one says that it should get exactly the same or be superior to any of the more expensive ones. Plain energy boni, universal ensign, built-in ability. Everything else can stay the same.
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Well if you gave the oddy pr thej bort one of their abilitys build in you break them.
That aside what ive been saying is the only thing that needs to be done is add mor useful ensign level powers. If you had better choices for that 3rd ensigh you could then be more effective. As I stated, the engineer ensign gets the fewest available powers so this is why it seems the galaxy is weaker than the other cruisers. The fact that it was one and to some extent is still free is why most of whats being requested will never happen, there is no money in it. Compared to ships in its price range (which is where I was comparing it)its exactly even in terms of power and utility.
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Evidence don't come with the stats because when look at your status screen showing shield face HP, resistance, recharge, and power levels, they well say one thing and yet when you play, they will perform not according to the stats. I have my Dreadnought and Galaxy-R set up exactly the same way accept for the extra Tac console. The extra tac console is a prefire chamber for cannons so it shouldn't make my phaser beams more powerful the the Galax-R with two Phaser weapon consoles. Both of their power levels are the exact same, 125. When I play, my Dreadnought phaser beams on the rear really wear down the enemy shields and hull, while my Galaxy-R( while having 3 more beams broadsiding) srtuggle to wear down the enemy's shields, let alone the their hull. My shields HP are the same on both ships and are the same type of covarient shield lvl12 with plasma resistance yet my shield is less resistant in action and wears away faster than my Dreadnought. You see, evidence is not in the game stats, it's in the programing. The stats match but the performance is different. The Devs programed the Galaxy to be weaker, no matter what you put in it.
1) Are you using saucer seperation?
2) Is your weapon power set to TRIBBLE/100?
3) Are you running dual copies of EPtW?
If the answer to any of those three questions is a "No", then you're doing it wrong, it'd not the ship that's the problem, it'd be YOU!
Saucer Seperation gives +10 Weapon Power. That's not much less increase over cruiser baseline as another Tac Console would be. Or from an other perspective: with Saucer Seperation, you total +15 Weapon Power, same as an Escort(!).
If your weapon power is low, then your weapons won't deal damage. Especially on a cruiser with 4+4 weapon slots.
EPtW gives another boost to weapon power, buffering the drain that a cruiser's loadout will inevitably cause.
(Yes, power over 125 has an effect! It counters drain. Very useful if shooting multiple weapons.)
But, for yet another persepctive:
Current DPS-potential of all T5 non-fleet Cruisers, assuming 6-beam configs.
#11: (Mirror) Star Cruiser. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +5 Power. The Cruiser baseline.
#10: Galaxy-R. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. ~10% improvement over baseline.
#9: (Mirror) Assault Cruiser. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt.+Ens. Tac, +5 Power. About 5% improvement over the Galaxy-R.
#8: Excelsior-R. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr Tac, +5 Power. Less than 5% improvement over the Assault Cruiser.
#7: Ops-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. Less than 5% improvement over the Excelsior-R.
#5A: Regent. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universal), +10 Power. About 5% improvement over the Ops-Ody.
#5B: Tac-Odissey. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power. Ties with the Regent.
#4 Sci-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac, +0 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to ~10% improvement over the Tac-Odissey, but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#3 Tac-Odissey /w Ops-Console. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +20 Power. Minor increase over Sci-Ody peak damage, but constant; also: can cheat and use 7- or 8-beam setups.
#2 Sci-Odissey /w Ops Console. 2 Tac Consoles, CCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to 10% improvement over Tac-Ody (6-beam) and very minor increase over Tac-Ody (7/8-beam), but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#1 Dreadnought. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +5 Power, Phaser Lance, cheats by using DCs/DHCs+Turrets.
#0 Dreadnought /w Saucer Seperation (to be released yet). 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +15 Power, Phaser Shotgun, uses DCs/DHCs+Turrets. Equals or even exceeds KDF Battle Cruisers.
Now .... where excactly do you want the Galaxy-R to come in?
Above the ship that replaced it? (Sovereign)
Above the ship that was originally designed as a Tactical Fast Response Cruiser, and refitted for that same purpose when the Galaxy was already in service? (Excelsior)
Above the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Ody)
Above the state-of-the-art-2409-refit of the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Regent)
Above the $50 P2W version of the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Tac/Sci-Ody /w Ops console)
Or even above the UFP Battle Cruiser from another timeline? (Dread)
Let's be real honest: compared to all the other T5 cruisers, the Galaxy is excactly where it should be.
And the differences between each of them is barely noticeable already, it's just that looking from the bottom upwards makes it seem that way, though the total range is something like +70% over baseline, no more (~3k dps for a baseline Star Cruiser, up to ~5k dps for a KDF Battle Cruiser of comperable gear). It's not even possible to have them closer together without turning it into a same/same with different skins.
So, what excactly are you asking for?
More weapons firing means more drain which mean your weapons won't hit as hard. What are you using in your tac ensign slots on the dread? Why are you gimping your dread with a prefire chamber? On your R what are you running in your engineering ensign slots? Where are you putting the sep console, and what are you sacraficing for it?
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Contradicting yourself, you forgot about the tier 5 B'rel Bird of prey, Defiant, Prometheus, Excelsior-Ret, Nehg'var, K'tinga, Vorcha, D'kora Ferangi ship, Galor, and the Jem'hadar attack ship. Those are all tier 5 designs that are over 50 years old yet they bring alot of power and damage with them. Some are actually over a hundred years old, like the B'rel, K'ting, and the Excelsior. The Jem'hadar attack ship didn't have cannons in the show but single beams, forward and aft, and it was not a tough ship, just mass produced. If humans or other sentient beings use and old body design, its is known that they would upgrade them to current spects to use them for current situations. Just step outside of your house for once and look at the real world and think of all the old things we still use but have upgaded them to current safety and perfomance standards. Example, I just got out the Army and know that the M1 Abrams tank was made for the 80's but 30 years later, we are still using it. Keeping the same body, we just upgraded the systems to be more computerized to perfom faster and better.
Dude, read the whole sentence before you answer with an argument. I said those abilities are rarely used in the "Show", duh.
Actualy that was a seperate comment directed toward a canon reason for this and onlt this ship. In startrek the age of the ship rarely makes a difference. And in STO they are merely costumes to begin with as the monarch and celestial are supposed to be modern versions of the galaxy. But this does highlight that canon and STO have little to do with eachother so trying to adapt canon reasoning is pointless. In the end i stand by my claims that it isn't the ship its the lack of utility in the lower level powers.
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My bad must have missed that no need to get snippy.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
You are wrong for assuming everyone on complaining about the Galaxy are idiots. We know the whats the stats say and what happens, when you separate the sauser. If my ship is at weapon power level 125 already before sauser separtaion, then what do you think it will add after separation? Nothing, because there is a power cap, duh. I have yet to see another player using the Galaxy-R in PVP not use sauser separation. Everybody knows, that once you die, you have to wait 5 minutes before you can separate and you will be stuck with slow turning "billboard" ship thats easy to kill.
See? You're wrong!
Weapon power is capped at 125, true, but excess power is used to counter drain. You could have read that in the quoted post already, but missed it.
Let's show you the difference:
Star Cruiser, +10 Power from skills, +5 from Cruiser, +5 from Borg Console
versus
Star Cruiser, +10 Power from skills, +5 from Cruiser, +5 from Borg Console, +20 from constant EPtW1.
#1 fire sequence: Beam1: 120 power, Beam2: 110 power, Beam 3: 100 power, Beam 4: 90 power, Beam 5: 80 power, Beam 6: 70 power, followed by 18 more shots at 70 power until all beams go on cooldown and power recovers. Average Power/shot: 76.25
#2 fire sequence: Beam 1: 125 power (of 140), Beam 2: 125 power (of 130), Beam 3: 120 power, Beam 4, 110 power, Beam 5: 100 power, Beam 6: 90 power, followed by 18 more shots at 90 power until all beams go on cooldown and power recovers. Average Power/shot: 95.42
An increase of 25.14% in damage!
Yes, it really does work that way! Try it!
That's what's causing most "whhhaaaaw. Cruisers suck! whhaaaaaw!"-threads.
People that don't get how power drain works.
And this one is no different.
Actually the Dreadnought didn't get an extra slot because it was already set up like the Assualt Cruisers. When they orignaly brought the Dreadnought they gave it only 4 forward weapons and 3 rear, just like the tier 4 Galaxy. That caused a big uproar and many people threatened to quit the game if they didn't change it. After that they set it up like the Assualt cruiser. Then F2P came and they try to trick people into thinking they gave you something new by givinging you old abilities that force you to use consoles. I was insulted by it because i knew that the cloak is mostly useless in battle and don't give much of an advantage to the Dreadnought, so I shelved that console and use prefire chamber to boost my cannons power and damage.
In the show, the takyon grid was initiaded by the Enterprise-D, and all the ships in that blockade fleet had the same ability, not just some science ship. ("Redemption II") If an ability is going to be in a console then it should be able to be used by any ship. If its going to be a ship classed ability then it should be a naturel ability.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I never said i sacrificed anthing for my sauser separation console. It goes right in the 3rd science slot like it was designed. My Eng ensign power is EPE1, because weapon and shield boost are covered by other 2 Eng BOFFs. My Dread is using 2 Phaser boost consoles, and 1 prefire chamber to boost cannons. The prefire chamber boost up the cannons fire better than just another phaser tac console. I have in front 1 phaser beam, 2 dual heavy phaser cannons, 1 phaser cannon. The rear have 3 phaser beams and one phaser turret.
My Galaxy-R has 3 phaser beams, and 1 Quantum torpedo laucher at forward, and in rear. My Tac consoles are 2 phaser weapons consoles to at least try to boost phaser power. I wish i had a third tac console to boost power for my torpedos.
Since the skill tree revamp prefire chambers are useless. A mk X prefire chamber gives you a 14% damage increase with only cannon type weapons where as a mk x phaser relay gives you a 20.6% damage increase in all weapons using phaser type energy.
As for the R you are loosing the ability to slot a number of shield enhancing consoles in your 3rd science slot so yes there is a sacrafice there. 6 beam arrays is an enormus power drain broad side and only an engineer can really support it. Even then it takes some doing. I would suggest a DBB up front for a little extra punch heading into your target and maybe a EPTW to help with the power drain, EPTW also adds a 10% damage bonus.
Not saying your build is in any way bad just suggesting you tailor it to compensate for the things you find lacking.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Where did you get that idea from?
It's wrong!
All +% damage is additive, not only from same type. That includes contributions from skills (Starship Weapon Training, Straship Energy Weapons). By using that prefire chamber you're losing dps.
That's also one common mistake, to overestimate the effect of one additional Tac console: skills already add nearly 200% base damage, so a single console makes it 300% -> 324% - an 8% increase. Even less if you already have two consoles.
Of course, this only makes your mistake with the prefire have very little effect - you lose less than 3% in dps. It's still a mistake.
My personal opinion... you buy it from the store thinking woohoo i'm gonna be Picard! Then when you hate it you buy another ship from the store, so more money for cryptic.
Edited for clarity: my point being its not the Dev's fault, its the accountants.
You do have to pay 2500 zen for each one. And for having such a high cost they lose out on a console in order to be able to use an ability that SHOULD be natural, like the cloak on klingon ships. So I don't think you'd be breaking them, I think you would be making them back where they should have been to begin with.
If you don't make them natural, at least have a different set of slots for them, like carriers have hangar slots. That way PWE doesn't lose out on any money since you'd still need to buy each ship to get that special console, but you wouldn't lose out on ship power because you would retain your 10 standard console slots.
But if the Devs would release something like a enhanced Galaxy class for the 25th anniversary of TNG, they could make money also PLUS it would make us happy.
I don't see their accountants being the bad guys here, the devs could easily introduce much more "realistic" shipclasses and make a lot of moola even so.
We are just a minority, most players are only looking at the stats of a ship IMO. Most players don't care if it is a Galaxy Class, Assault Cruiser or Odyssey Class, they will run after the next big released ship when it comes out.
But people like us, who really care about a special ship, will get seriously frustrated sooner or later and buy NO ship at all (or anything else anymore) and abandon this game entirely. I think the devs should think about this aspect once again IMHO.
Live long and prosper.
I think you are overlooking entirely what I said. If you read my WHOLE post, and not just the part you quoted, I was saying ALL ships with abilities like that should either A) Have them built in, like a Klingon cloak, or
I was simply trying to offer up a way for people to have the abilities of these ships without losing out on the true potential of these ships and still enable PWE to make money, esp with abilities specific to those ships.
Allow me to clarify. I will use the tactical escort refit, retrofit, and fleet version as an example. All of them have X number of tac, engi, and sci slots (whatever they come with). But each of them also has an empty console slot in it's own category, called cloak. Now if you do it that way, PWE will still make their money, because you will still need to buy the retrofit to get the cloak, but if you do that, you now have this cloak console you can put in that separate console slot on ANY of those ships, giving you that nasty little cloak WITHOUT getting rid of some defense (sci/eng), attack power (tac), or utility (sci/eng) slot.
Another example, the Odysseys and Bortasque classes. They have their 10 consoles like we all love them for, and then 3 separate slots off in their own category. Each oddy/bort comes with it's console, and you can put it in that slot. That way PWE still forces you to get all 3 in order to use the oddy/bort set, but you can still use the oddy/bort set bonus and not lose out on ANY of your 10 consoles.
Basically what I propose is giving the ships back a little bit of their oomph (or in the case of ships that can carry multiple ability consoles, like the oddy and bort, a lot of their oomph).
So yes, I want my cake in order to eat it. Sorry bro.