Just getting an Engy up to 50 very soon, got an excel and 2 oddys and the sovy refit laid out for him. Has anyone covered the sovy refit on this thread? I have come to rely on the OP's knowledge a great deal and would appreciate your input on beam boat and cannon versions of the sovy refit. On my eng I was kind of planning a beam boat tank for after the rollback of the nerf, but have many other options, most of which has been already covered. Just need advice on the right setup for the sovy refit or how to adapt some of the other options to it for an adaptable pvp/pve set up.
I have ideas but probaly dont need to post them and make myself look dumb.
II. EPTS1
EPTA1, Aux2Damp1, Aux2Batt2 (yes I said it), EWP2 (don't have any friends to train me 3, irregular bathing and all) PH1, HE2 TT1, HYT2, CRF2
TS1, DPB1 Doffs: 3 Technicians, 2 BFI
Bind 1 entire row to 1 button. Line them up:
EPTA1, EPTS1, Aux2Batt, PH1, TSS2, Aux2Sif3
UI is funny, it seems to pop the first and last in a row, so spamming at a medium pace will get you:
0 sec: EPTA1, Aux2Sif3, PH1, TSS2
10 sec: Aux2Batt
15 sec: EPTS1
20 sec: Aux2Sif3 (but pause here, because your aux recovery will vary based on EPS)
30 sec: EPTA1, PH1, TSS2
repeat
It also works with Aux2Damp. You just have to pause in there for your aux to recover. Aux2Batt works instantly, but wears off at the speed of your power transfer rate starting 10 seconds after you trigger it. If you want to get your aux back for heals faster, increase your rate, if you want to leave your weapons overcapped or your engines higher for a few seconds longer a low rate actually helps you out.
You can overcap for an alpha by CRF2, then EPTA1, Aux2Batt before you fire. CRF will be back up in 21 seconds instead of 30. You are actually getting larger boost to weapon power (plus shields and engines) running this than you would EPTW1x2, although it's only for 10ish seconds out of every 30ish. Aux2Batt reduces its own cd, btw.
EPTS1 uptime 100% plus EPTA boosted heals if you want to toss them, 125 shields and engines with overcapped weapons for 10 sec at a time. Then pick whether you want more meat on her thighs with Aux2Sif or put the old girl on skates with Aux2Damp.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
wile i don't think 2 AtB would work that great on a fleet vorcha, because if you can believe it it has to many tac stations, 2 AtB is currently broken overpowered with tech doffs. not only do 2 AtBs set every single power to global before you have a chance to use it again, you can use the AtB every 10 seconds, so the power buff to other subsystems from it is always up. any ship that has room for EPtS, EPtA and 2 AtB just became overpowered. so the vet ships, the nebula, and any kirking cruiser. healers i would suggest using damage control doffs still, it can keep the number of EPtX skills low, and doesn't interfere with your aux, the most critical component to all aux based heals.
you might not even need 3 tech doffs anymore, going to test that next.
EPtS, AtB, EPtA, AtB. you want EPtA to go off before the second AtB, so it has some aux to boost your power levels up. but often in the rotation the second AtB will get used wile your aux is an the tank. oh well, you didn't get quite so much extra power that time, but now you can use aux based heals and you got the cool down reduction, the extra power was just gravy anyway.
i hesitate to post to much about this, its just stupidly powerful, basically gives you the equivalent of 2 of every single ability.
Reposting my old pure damage Excel build since I still love that ship more than my life:
NOTE, ATTENTION, ATTENZIONE, READ PLS: This is NOT a team ship, do NOT take this ship into a team without vetting it by your friends first. She is 110% for Kirks and Kirks only
This works best with a Tac, but since I haven't actually tested it out with anything else feel free to give it a spin. I suspect you'd feel the loss of those delicious flat damage buffs too deeply, though, and she scales like an escort when it comes to crit so keep that in mind.
4 x Phased Tetryon Cannon [Acc]x2
4 x Phased Tetryon Turret [Acc]x2
Your choice of armor console (I'd go diburnium or electroceramic), Borg, RCS, RCS
2 x Flow Cap (Omega scales well with Field Gens so you can take one instead if you're a big sissy girl)
3 x Tet consoles
3 x Shield Distro DOff
1 x Warp Core Engineer
1 x Very Rare Tractor Beam DOff
Some of you are probably raising your eyebrows at the Lt. tractor beam. Here's the trick: tractor beam DOffs apply a shield drain, and since TB scales both against your TB rank as well as your aux, this can get really sick really fast, and what's more is that even if you can't keep the hold, you're still applying a heavy drain and you've forced someone to pop one or more escapes.
By properly staggering EPt(X) and saving your buffs for the right moment (ideally you can hull bait a little to get GDF going) you will straight up murder anything that isn't paying attention. You're not really doing spike but you're sure as hell doing more than mere token pressure damage, and this can be a sweet spot for a ship like the Excel because it means you're too dangerous to ignore and simultaneously taking pressure off your teammates.
IMPORTANT CAVEAT: DEM is heavily weapons power dependent. One of the reasons you want to be taking EPtW (and ideally that Warp Core DOff) is that you always want to be above 125+ before using DEM. When you pull it off right this will be doing the kind of straight-to-hull damage you'd only see on a Tac-buffed FBP.
wile i don't think 2 AtB would work that great on a fleet vorcha, because if you can believe it it has to many tac stations, 2 AtB is currently broken overpowered with tech doffs. not only do 2 AtBs set every single power to global before you have a chance to use it again, you can use the AtB every 10 seconds, so the power buff to other subsystems from it is always up. any ship that has room for EPtS, EPtA and 2 AtB just became overpowered. so the vet ships, the nebula, and any kirking cruiser. healers i would suggest using damage control doffs still, it can keep the number of EPtX skills low, and doesn't interfere with your aux, the most critical component to all aux based heals.
you might not even need 3 tech doffs anymore, going to test that next.
EPtS, AtB, EPtA, AtB. you want EPtA to go off before the second AtB, so it has some aux to boost your power levels up. but often in the rotation the second AtB will get used wile your aux is an the tank. oh well, you didn't get quite so much extra power that time, but now you can use aux based heals and you got the cool down reduction, the extra power was just gravy anyway.
i hesitate to post to much about this, its just stupidly powerful, basically gives you the equivalent of 2 of every single ability.
Holy TRIBBLE I never thought of 2 A2B's. Running aux-less... hmmm...
But yeah, completely agreed that other builds have more synergy with this. I think the biggest benefit is on ships with different Cmdr/Ltcdr slot types, but yeah, if that Lt Tac was Lt Sci and I could double up with the Uni it would really be rolling. It's just what I'm really flying right now so I put it out there. I love the Fleet Vorcha. I have enough lobi for the temporal destroyer on that toon but I can't bring myself to give her up.
I don't think posting about it is going to produce widespread use, at least not enough to get it nerfed. Enough people don't really understand the powers even after you explain it in chat.
Plus I've been running Tech doffs for at least a few months and I still TRIBBLE up the rotation, I don't think a lot of people are going to be into that much juggling.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Holy TRIBBLE I never thought of 2 A2B's. Running aux-less... hmmm...
But yeah, completely agreed that other builds have more synergy with this. I think the biggest benefit is on ships with different Cmdr/Ltcdr slot types, but yeah, if that Lt Tac was Lt Sci and I could double up with the Uni it would really be rolling. It's just what I'm really flying right now so I put it out there. I love the Fleet Vorcha. I have enough lobi for the temporal destroyer on that toon but I can't bring myself to give her up.
I don't think posting about it is going to produce widespread use, at least not enough to get it nerfed. Enough people don't really understand the powers even after you explain it in chat.
Plus I've been running Tech doffs for at least a few months and I still TRIBBLE up the rotation, I don't think a lot of people are going to be into that much juggling.
oh i see, in that build that was an AtD. oh theres no way to cycle all that without a key bind that also fires your weapons and distributes your shields that you literally have to press constantly. but you can basically just spam it and not think, and even with 2 AtB i have aux a good amount of the time, at least enough for the heals to do something. i would suggest using ET3 or ST3 with it though. so often the 2nd aux to bat activates when you have next to no aux, wile aux is slowly returning, and you get most of it back from the 1st AtB. plus EPtA running helps too.
Assuming the patch on tribble goes live before the sun goes nova. I may return to this thread.
Stay Tuned.
since im pretty ok with the changes, i was gonna rebuild some of my builds. but i find 0 reason to use anything but the vet ships now, nothing i have compares, only the time ships are on par. the vet ships are sorta small battle cruisers, or destroyers like they call them, so they might get posted here soon. got an eng LTC setup perfected, now im gonna make a sci LTC setup too.
since im pretty ok with the changes, i was gonna rebuild some of my builds. but i find 0 reason to use anything but the vet ships now, nothing i have compares, only the time ships are on par. the vet ships are sorta small battle cruisers, or destroyers like they call them, so they might get posted here soon. got an eng LTC setup perfected, now im gonna make a sci LTC setup too.
Yeah, I think I said this somewhere else but I can kinda see these ships becoming really big. There's a reason everyone falls in love with KDF cruisers at least once.
since im pretty ok with the changes, i was gonna rebuild some of my builds. but i find 0 reason to use anything but the vet ships now, nothing i have compares, only the time ships are on par. the vet ships are sorta small battle cruisers, or destroyers like they call them, so they might get posted here soon. got an eng LTC setup perfected, now im gonna make a sci LTC setup too.
They feature a Cmdr Tac am I correct?
If so, keep in mind their healing prowess is greatly diminished by this.
If so, keep in mind their healing prowess is greatly diminished by this.
why? cause it cant slot AtS3? you can now cycle 2 of those every 10 seconds now. any survivability issue goes away pretty quick when you have a mountain of energy from 2 AtB and a LTC, 2 LT and ENS station all in things other then tactical, there is no survivability issue.
starting with a cruiser as a base, and then tarding it up with tactical stations is putting lipstick on a pig. same with the fleet vorcha, only that has eye liner too. i used the fleet vorcha a bit last night, i don't feel anything from it anymore. built a vet ship with a TLC sci station for that character now.
these vet ships? they start with an escort, a vastly superior platform stat wise. slightly down on shield and hull hp, but those disadvantages are greatly diminished by the movement ability and the universal stations. i generally run these ships with 4 tactical stations, 3 sci stations, and 5 eng stations
all you need for tactical is that commander station, if you use the LTC for tac as well you are really missing the point. these ships are not 16-20 turn rate escorts, it cant directly compete with those much more maneuverable escorts toe to toe, you need to use the other type of station powers to bring them down to and below your maneuverability level. if your want 2 copies of your tactical stations for more up time, AtB is your friend, thats gives you redundancy for EVERY ability you have at least 1 of. all the rest of he stations can be used to keep you alive, or royal befuddle your opponent, wile dealing full escort damage
I tested the chimera based upon your suggestion running 2x AtoB...
I.... I have no words... Its brutal. Especially with my engineer. I only got killed due to server lag. Healing team, and the damage.... its just not fair. Even 3 vs 5...I have to ditch the saber for this one being my new favorite fed ship.
I posted the build in the other engineer escort topic.
why? cause it cant slot AtS3? you can now cycle 2 of those every 10 seconds now. any survivability issue goes away pretty quick when you have a mountain of energy from 2 AtB and a LTC, 2 LT and ENS station all in things other then tactical, there is no survivability issue.
starting with a cruiser as a base, and then tarding it up with tactical stations is putting lipstick on a pig. same with the fleet vorcha, only that has eye liner too. i used the fleet vorcha a bit last night, i don't feel anything from it anymore. built a vet ship with a TLC sci station for that character now.
these vet ships? they start with an escort, a vastly superior platform stat wise. slightly down on shield and hull hp, but those disadvantages are greatly diminished by the movement ability and the universal stations. i generally run these ships with 4 tactical stations, 3 sci stations, and 5 eng stations
all you need for tactical is that commander station, if you use the LTC for tac as well you are really missing the point. these ships are not 16-20 turn rate escorts, it cant directly compete with those much more maneuverable escorts toe to toe, you need to use the other type of station powers to bring them down to and below your maneuverability level. if your want 2 copies of your tactical stations for more up time, AtB is your friend, thats gives you redundancy for EVERY ability you have at least 1 of. all the rest of he stations can be used to keep you alive, or royal befuddle your opponent, wile dealing full escort damage
Please post their boff layout for me so I can fiddle with some theory crafting.
every one of these powers is at global. its kinda sloppy, and a second or 2 might go missing, but for all intents and purposes its global. 2x AtB will cycle every 10 seconds, and reduce cooldowns each time, wile also buffing your other power levels at the same time, depending on EPtA rotation, and aux returning from 0 from the previous AtB. tweaking your energy preset a bit will give you at or near 125 power in the 3 subsystems most of the time, some times you will use AtB and get very little power benefit, but you get the cool down. regardless of capacity, your shields are as hard as a rock with ~123 shield power for a lot of the time, and with you almost always having aux for 1 reason or another, you can make use of HE and TSS regularly, and an aux batt is always there for an emergency. other ships PERFECT for a 2X AtB build like this includes the nebula, any BOP, and cruisers with LTC tac or sci. unfortunately, i don't think the fleet vorcha is a great fit here though.
and a sci build im using on my other klink
4DHC, 3 Turrets, 2 damage control doffs, 3 BFI doffs
this character had the fleet vorcha, and the acc trait, and accurate weapons. my AtB using character had the anti protons and needs those holds to be on all the time for max effectiveness. max effectiveness is a REALLY good way to describe what he does
wow. they weren't even trying to make them balanced.
Guess they had to sell LTS some how.
The KDF vet ship is squishier than the Fleet Torkaht. It has .8x shield mod compared to 1.1, less power gain to systems, and 9 console slots which is really like having 8 when you take into account the ship's console which should be used.
For more details on the Tactical mode you do lose some aux power, +30 acc, and 1x per 5 minutes have a lotus which can be spiked hard. But, to really get the benefit out of the lotus for KDF you have to use disruptors which means the other side can resist heavy against disruptors and you aren't using a more useful weapon proc. The lotus arc is 240 degrees up to 3 targets.
For the base mode you get a bonus to shield skill and slight aux boost. It has a 1x per 5 minute shield vamp 90 degree arc that gains from flow cap (but only 2 sci slot available).
So w/what I currently use for my Tac:
1rsc, 1 borg, ship's console - Eng
Flow cap, plas leech - Sci
4x Disruptor - Tac
I get low 30s turnrate w/the rsc not counting gain from aux2batt and plas leech to eng power.
My shields are mid 7k/side.
It really is a glass cannon even w/rsp, epts3, and aux2batt/plas leech power levels. But, it's one heck of a cannon.
Edit:
Admittedly I also use 3 part Omega set, if I dropped the deflector to use Borg or shield deflector and dropped the flow cap console for 18% shield boost it'd be a bit sturdier.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I may have to jump back in just to try out my new shiny Vet ships.
(Now if I could just stuff a Charr in as captain...)
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
The KDF vet ship is squishier than the Fleet Torkaht. It has .8x shield mod compared to 1.1, less power gain to systems, and 9 console slots which is really like having 8 when you take into account the ship's console which should be used.
Have you made sure this is actually the case, and that it isn't just the tooltip/pre-"bonus" shield value being shown?
Have you made sure this is actually the case, and that it isn't just the tooltip/pre-"bonus" shield value being shown?
I get 7,425/facing using MKXII Omega, no console boosts w/my tac.
Same gear I get 9,160/facing using Fleet Torkaht.
So, the Vet ship shields are ~81% effective compared to the fleet torkaht.
Edit: I should note the 7,425 is in normal mode, it drops lower in Tac mode.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I broke open a new can of awesome sauce last night and refined my mirrorstarcruiser even further. I suspect that I can unlock even more potential once I acquire a couple of doffs. But healing is never an issue in this bad boy. And it can crank 1/4 to 1/3 of it's heal potential in Damage, while setting up zone denial. I'm also likely going to tweak the weapons loadout at some point if I can score enough of the new polarized disruptor hybrid weapons.
I know you're saying "only 1/4 to 1/3erd it's output in damage compared to heals! but mav your AC can does 1/3 to 1/2!" That's how nuts the healing is. At the end of an average arena, I have anywhere from 300k to 500k damage. I'll let that math work itself out in your head abit. No doubt oddy players and recluse players are like "lolz only a mill in healing" yeah but unlike your fat garbage scows the Mirror star doesn't need to pump as much raw healing. It has massive resistance givers, (which prevent damage in the first place) and ontop of that it can help end matches faster by setting up kills, pet supression, Defense Score Negation, Premature Hazard forcing, while still providing solid mainline healing. Do note in longer arenas I've racked up well beyond these numbers. That is just the per match average. I also suspect, again that I have just a little more potential left in the ship.
Oh and anyone that thinks an eng in a cruiser just isn't as good as a sci? Ask broken1981 about last night, and how we not only kept up with a team of him and his buddies that had 3 sub nukes (and of one which was delivered by an oddy) but how easily we kept the battlefield under our control :P (with 0 sci captains on our end no less hehe) The eng ain't dead by a long shot. But it can't run the Old Ways as readily anymore. It has to be Aggressive in setup.
Weapons: 7 Polaron beam arrays. 1 Chron mine/tric mine. (haven't tried the tric yet) Acc, Crth2s, after I get all the pieces together. Right now, I have 4 acc crth2s and 3 blue acc2s.
Deflector: Borg (will be dropped for Omega likely at a later date)
Engine Borg: (likely again to be dropped once the chance to the borg set comes, to Omega.
Shields: Mako Mark 12
Consoles: 1 Borg, 1 Ablative Armor, 2 SIF Generators
1 Field Generator, 2 Emitter Array consoles. (can be swapped for the shield regen consoles)
2 Polaron energy.
Devices: 1 Subspace Field mod. Weapon Batteries, Shield Batteries, Aux Batteries.
Doffs: 3 Maint engs (2 greens and a blue right now. I told you I needed a couple doffs yet!), 1 purple Shield Distribution officer, 1 Extend Shields Warpcore engineer. My next refine ment attempt will put in 2 purple damage control doffs on an All In heal variant. This will let me swap one of my EPTSes out for an EPTA (emergency power to aux) and have 100 percent uptime on both in theory. Which will lead to even more rock solid heal numbers. Once I acquire these, and a purple maint eng. I will simply drop the SDO and put the damage control doff in it's place. For times when I need the SDO slot back will carry my matter anti matter specialist. Which gives warp plasma a 3 second Total Stop, that can reapply every time the DOT does.
I broke open a new can of awesome sauce last night and refined my mirrorstarcruiser even further. I suspect that I can unlock even more potential once I acquire a couple of doffs. But healing is never an issue in this bad boy. And it can crank 1/4 to 1/3 of it's heal potential in Damage, while setting up zone denial. I'm also likely going to tweak the weapons loadout at some point if I can score enough of the new polarized disruptor hybrid weapons.
I know you're saying "only 1/4 to 1/3erd it's output in damage compared to heals! but mav your AC can does 1/3 to 1/2!" That's how nuts the healing is. At the end of an average arena, I have anywhere from 300k to 500k damage. I'll let that math work itself out in your head abit. No doubt oddy players and recluse players are like "lolz only a mill in healing" yeah but unlike your fat garbage scows the Mirror star doesn't need to pump as much raw healing. It has massive resistance givers, (which prevent damage in the first place) and ontop of that it can help end matches faster by setting up kills, pet supression, Defense Score Negation, Premature Hazard forcing, while still providing solid mainline healing. Do note in longer arenas I've racked up well beyond these numbers. That is just the per match average. I also suspect, again that I have just a little more potential left in the ship.
Oh and anyone that thinks an eng in a cruiser just isn't as good as a sci? Ask broken1981 about last night, and how we not only kept up with a team of him and his buddies that had 3 sub nukes (and of one which was delivered by an oddy) but how easily we kept the battlefield under our control :P (with 0 sci captains on our end no less hehe) The eng ain't dead by a long shot. But it can't run the Old Ways as readily anymore. It has to be Aggressive in setup.
Weapons: 7 Polaron beam arrays. 1 Chron mine/tric mine. (haven't tried the tric yet) Acc, Crth2s, after I get all the pieces together. Right now, I have 4 acc crth2s and 3 blue acc2s.
Deflector: Borg (will be dropped for Omega likely at a later date)
Engine Borg: (likely again to be dropped once the chance to the borg set comes, to Omega.
Shields: Mako Mark 12
Consoles: 1 Borg, 1 Ablative Armor, 2 SIF Generators
1 Field Generator, 2 Emitter Array consoles. (can be swapped for the shield regen consoles)
2 Polaron energy.
Devices: 1 Subspace Field mod. Weapon Batteries, Shield Batteries, Aux Batteries.
Doffs: 3 Maint engs (2 greens and a blue right now. I told you I needed a couple doffs yet!), 1 purple Shield Distribution officer, 1 Extend Shields Warpcore engineer. My next refine ment attempt will put in 2 purple damage control doffs on an All In heal variant. This will let me swap one of my EPTSes out for an EPTA (emergency power to aux) and have 100 percent uptime on both in theory. Which will lead to even more rock solid heal numbers. Once I acquire these, and a purple maint eng. I will simply drop the SDO and put the damage control doff in it's place. For times when I need the SDO slot back will carry my matter anti matter specialist. Which gives warp plasma a 3 second Total Stop, that can reapply every time the DOT does.
Interesting and a little "out of the box" build to be sure.
The 1 ? I have is how are you throwing these damage numbers with the "miss NERF"? When I came back from TOR with my ACCX1 APs I was throwing not much more than 200K due to nothing but "misses". I have since changed over to ACCX2 pols with a couple of ACCX3 thrown in for good measure, slowing haveing to upgrade to ACCX3 as I gave away all my EC, EFF crews, everything that wasn't bound, etc when I left for TOR. (I know, dumb move but I was ticked off lol)
i think about 80% of that zone denial was from me last night somehow, we managed to dps through all that healing without any sci, an through all the spam. them having no defense score when we focused on them from the ludicrous amount of plasma we brought was the only thing that let us deal enough damage i think.
i think about 80% of that zone denial was from me last night somehow, we managed to dps through all that healing without any sci, an through all the spam. them having no defense score when we focused on them from the ludicrous amount of plasma we brought was the only thing that let us deal enough damage i think.
Yeah even I got kills. Just think if you'd had a competent escort. And I'm not fishing for a compliment, I'm aware of some of the things I'm doing wrong (which means there's others that I'm not aware of yet). In other, slower ships, I can watch buff cycles and pay attention to where I am. I'm getting so caught up with my arc and throttle that when Mav would call a target switch I was really slow. When a target gets called I want to know where they are beforehand.
Anyway, what I wanted to say that's relevant to the cruiser thread is that I wish we had vids because it was a pretty awesome example of what can be done with cruisers in the right hands. Awesome suppression and spike mitigation. If we'd had SNBs it would have been a kill most times times they came off cd, but as it was it came down to who blinked first. Pretty fun stuff.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Yeah even I got kills. Just think if you'd had a competent escort. And I'm not fishing for a compliment, I'm aware of some of the things I'm doing wrong (which means there's others that I'm not aware of yet). In other, slower ships, I can watch buff cycles and pay attention to where I am. I'm getting so caught up with my arc and throttle that when Mav would call a target switch I was really slow. When a target gets called I want to know where they are beforehand.
Anyway, what I wanted to say that's relevant to the cruiser thread is that I wish we had vids because it was a pretty awesome example of what can be done with cruisers in the right hands. Awesome suppression and spike mitigation. If we'd had SNBs it would have been a kill most times times they came off cd, but as it was it came down to who blinked first. Pretty fun stuff.
my comp was chugging so much that slowed me down for target switching a lot too. i would just target mav and switch to his target. oh man, if we had an snb, with how shut down they were already, those would not have been such long matches
Comments
I have ideas but probaly dont need to post them and make myself look dumb.
Purpose: Aux2Batt abuse for pugging.
DHCx3, Quantum
Turret x2, Tric Mine x2 or Turret x3, Tric Mine
Deflector: Borg
Engines: Borg
Shields: Res Capx3 (Thanks for this one Mav, you weren't kidding)
I.
EPTS1, Aux2Batt1, EWP1, Aux2Sif3
EPTA1
PH1, TSS2
TT1, HYT2, CRF2
TS1, DPB1
Doffs: 3 Technicians, 2 Evasive
II.
EPTS1
EPTA1, Aux2Damp1, Aux2Batt2 (yes I said it), EWP2 (don't have any friends to train me 3, irregular bathing and all)
PH1, HE2
TT1, HYT2, CRF2
TS1, DPB1
Doffs: 3 Technicians, 2 BFI
Bind 1 entire row to 1 button. Line them up:
EPTA1, EPTS1, Aux2Batt, PH1, TSS2, Aux2Sif3
UI is funny, it seems to pop the first and last in a row, so spamming at a medium pace will get you:
0 sec: EPTA1, Aux2Sif3, PH1, TSS2
10 sec: Aux2Batt
15 sec: EPTS1
20 sec: Aux2Sif3 (but pause here, because your aux recovery will vary based on EPS)
30 sec: EPTA1, PH1, TSS2
repeat
It also works with Aux2Damp. You just have to pause in there for your aux to recover. Aux2Batt works instantly, but wears off at the speed of your power transfer rate starting 10 seconds after you trigger it. If you want to get your aux back for heals faster, increase your rate, if you want to leave your weapons overcapped or your engines higher for a few seconds longer a low rate actually helps you out.
You can overcap for an alpha by CRF2, then EPTA1, Aux2Batt before you fire. CRF will be back up in 21 seconds instead of 30. You are actually getting larger boost to weapon power (plus shields and engines) running this than you would EPTW1x2, although it's only for 10ish seconds out of every 30ish. Aux2Batt reduces its own cd, btw.
EPTS1 uptime 100% plus EPTA boosted heals if you want to toss them, 125 shields and engines with overcapped weapons for 10 sec at a time. Then pick whether you want more meat on her thighs with Aux2Sif or put the old girl on skates with Aux2Damp.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
you might not even need 3 tech doffs anymore, going to test that next.
EPtS, AtB, EPtA, AtB. you want EPtA to go off before the second AtB, so it has some aux to boost your power levels up. but often in the rotation the second AtB will get used wile your aux is an the tank. oh well, you didn't get quite so much extra power that time, but now you can use aux based heals and you got the cool down reduction, the extra power was just gravy anyway.
i hesitate to post to much about this, its just stupidly powerful, basically gives you the equivalent of 2 of every single ability.
This works best with a Tac, but since I haven't actually tested it out with anything else feel free to give it a spin. I suspect you'd feel the loss of those delicious flat damage buffs too deeply, though, and she scales like an escort when it comes to crit so keep that in mind.
Lt. Com. Tac: TT, C:RF1, C:RF2
Com. Eng: EPtW, EPtS2, Aux2SIF2, DEM3
Lt. Eng: EPtS, ET2
Ens. Eng: EPtW
Lt. Sci: TSS1/HE1, TB2
Deflector: Borg
Engines: Omega
Shield: Omega
RMC, ideally a Weap + Aux bat but Aux is fine
4 x Phased Tetryon Cannon [Acc]x2
4 x Phased Tetryon Turret [Acc]x2
Your choice of armor console (I'd go diburnium or electroceramic), Borg, RCS, RCS
2 x Flow Cap (Omega scales well with Field Gens so you can take one instead if you're a big sissy girl)
3 x Tet consoles
3 x Shield Distro DOff
1 x Warp Core Engineer
1 x Very Rare Tractor Beam DOff
Some of you are probably raising your eyebrows at the Lt. tractor beam. Here's the trick: tractor beam DOffs apply a shield drain, and since TB scales both against your TB rank as well as your aux, this can get really sick really fast, and what's more is that even if you can't keep the hold, you're still applying a heavy drain and you've forced someone to pop one or more escapes.
By properly staggering EPt(X) and saving your buffs for the right moment (ideally you can hull bait a little to get GDF going) you will straight up murder anything that isn't paying attention. You're not really doing spike but you're sure as hell doing more than mere token pressure damage, and this can be a sweet spot for a ship like the Excel because it means you're too dangerous to ignore and simultaneously taking pressure off your teammates.
IMPORTANT CAVEAT: DEM is heavily weapons power dependent. One of the reasons you want to be taking EPtW (and ideally that Warp Core DOff) is that you always want to be above 125+ before using DEM. When you pull it off right this will be doing the kind of straight-to-hull damage you'd only see on a Tac-buffed FBP.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
But yeah, completely agreed that other builds have more synergy with this. I think the biggest benefit is on ships with different Cmdr/Ltcdr slot types, but yeah, if that Lt Tac was Lt Sci and I could double up with the Uni it would really be rolling. It's just what I'm really flying right now so I put it out there. I love the Fleet Vorcha. I have enough lobi for the temporal destroyer on that toon but I can't bring myself to give her up.
I don't think posting about it is going to produce widespread use, at least not enough to get it nerfed. Enough people don't really understand the powers even after you explain it in chat.
Plus I've been running Tech doffs for at least a few months and I still TRIBBLE up the rotation, I don't think a lot of people are going to be into that much juggling.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
oh i see, in that build that was an AtD. oh theres no way to cycle all that without a key bind that also fires your weapons and distributes your shields that you literally have to press constantly. but you can basically just spam it and not think, and even with 2 AtB i have aux a good amount of the time, at least enough for the heals to do something. i would suggest using ET3 or ST3 with it though. so often the 2nd aux to bat activates when you have next to no aux, wile aux is slowly returning, and you get most of it back from the 1st AtB. plus EPtA running helps too.
Stay Tuned.
since im pretty ok with the changes, i was gonna rebuild some of my builds. but i find 0 reason to use anything but the vet ships now, nothing i have compares, only the time ships are on par. the vet ships are sorta small battle cruisers, or destroyers like they call them, so they might get posted here soon. got an eng LTC setup perfected, now im gonna make a sci LTC setup too.
Yeah, I think I said this somewhere else but I can kinda see these ships becoming really big. There's a reason everyone falls in love with KDF cruisers at least once.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
They feature a Cmdr Tac am I correct?
If so, keep in mind their healing prowess is greatly diminished by this.
why? cause it cant slot AtS3? you can now cycle 2 of those every 10 seconds now. any survivability issue goes away pretty quick when you have a mountain of energy from 2 AtB and a LTC, 2 LT and ENS station all in things other then tactical, there is no survivability issue.
starting with a cruiser as a base, and then tarding it up with tactical stations is putting lipstick on a pig. same with the fleet vorcha, only that has eye liner too. i used the fleet vorcha a bit last night, i don't feel anything from it anymore. built a vet ship with a TLC sci station for that character now.
these vet ships? they start with an escort, a vastly superior platform stat wise. slightly down on shield and hull hp, but those disadvantages are greatly diminished by the movement ability and the universal stations. i generally run these ships with 4 tactical stations, 3 sci stations, and 5 eng stations
all you need for tactical is that commander station, if you use the LTC for tac as well you are really missing the point. these ships are not 16-20 turn rate escorts, it cant directly compete with those much more maneuverable escorts toe to toe, you need to use the other type of station powers to bring them down to and below your maneuverability level. if your want 2 copies of your tactical stations for more up time, AtB is your friend, thats gives you redundancy for EVERY ability you have at least 1 of. all the rest of he stations can be used to keep you alive, or royal befuddle your opponent, wile dealing full escort damage
I tested the chimera based upon your suggestion running 2x AtoB...
I.... I have no words... Its brutal. Especially with my engineer. I only got killed due to server lag. Healing team, and the damage.... its just not fair. Even 3 vs 5...I have to ditch the saber for this one being my new favorite fed ship.
I posted the build in the other engineer escort topic.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Please post their boff layout for me so I can fiddle with some theory crafting.
COM tac
LTC uni
LT eng
LT sci
ENS uni
14 turn
3 eng consoles
2 sci consoles
4 tac consoles
the rest here- http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=706571 and yes, the KDF version really does have a battle cloak
heres a good place to start, my eng build
4DHC, 3 Turrets, 3 tech doffs, 2 BFI doffs
TT1, APD1, APO1, CRF3
EPtS1, AtB1, EWP1
EPtA1, AtB1
TSS1, HE2
TB1
every one of these powers is at global. its kinda sloppy, and a second or 2 might go missing, but for all intents and purposes its global. 2x AtB will cycle every 10 seconds, and reduce cooldowns each time, wile also buffing your other power levels at the same time, depending on EPtA rotation, and aux returning from 0 from the previous AtB. tweaking your energy preset a bit will give you at or near 125 power in the 3 subsystems most of the time, some times you will use AtB and get very little power benefit, but you get the cool down. regardless of capacity, your shields are as hard as a rock with ~123 shield power for a lot of the time, and with you almost always having aux for 1 reason or another, you can make use of HE and TSS regularly, and an aux batt is always there for an emergency. other ships PERFECT for a 2X AtB build like this includes the nebula, any BOP, and cruisers with LTC tac or sci. unfortunately, i don't think the fleet vorcha is a great fit here though.
and a sci build im using on my other klink
4DHC, 3 Turrets, 2 damage control doffs, 3 BFI doffs
TT1, CRF1, APO1, CRF3
TT1
EPtW1, EPtS1
TB1, TSS2, TBR2
PH1, HE2
this character had the fleet vorcha, and the acc trait, and accurate weapons. my AtB using character had the anti protons and needs those holds to be on all the time for max effectiveness. max effectiveness is a REALLY good way to describe what he does
She's a good damage ship. and the vet ship kdf side looks on the surface to be a superior fleet vorcha.
What is the inertia score of the new ships?
like 80, its absurdly high. and ya they are the ultimate kirk ship, they arent a replacement for healers or anything.
wow. they weren't even trying to make them balanced.
Guess they had to sell LTS some how.
The KDF vet ship is squishier than the Fleet Torkaht. It has .8x shield mod compared to 1.1, less power gain to systems, and 9 console slots which is really like having 8 when you take into account the ship's console which should be used.
For more details on the Tactical mode you do lose some aux power, +30 acc, and 1x per 5 minutes have a lotus which can be spiked hard. But, to really get the benefit out of the lotus for KDF you have to use disruptors which means the other side can resist heavy against disruptors and you aren't using a more useful weapon proc. The lotus arc is 240 degrees up to 3 targets.
For the base mode you get a bonus to shield skill and slight aux boost. It has a 1x per 5 minute shield vamp 90 degree arc that gains from flow cap (but only 2 sci slot available).
So w/what I currently use for my Tac:
1rsc, 1 borg, ship's console - Eng
Flow cap, plas leech - Sci
4x Disruptor - Tac
I get low 30s turnrate w/the rsc not counting gain from aux2batt and plas leech to eng power.
My shields are mid 7k/side.
It really is a glass cannon even w/rsp, epts3, and aux2batt/plas leech power levels. But, it's one heck of a cannon.
Edit:
Admittedly I also use 3 part Omega set, if I dropped the deflector to use Borg or shield deflector and dropped the flow cap console for 18% shield boost it'd be a bit sturdier.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I may have to jump back in just to try out my new shiny Vet ships.
(Now if I could just stuff a Charr in as captain...)
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Have you made sure this is actually the case, and that it isn't just the tooltip/pre-"bonus" shield value being shown?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I get 7,425/facing using MKXII Omega, no console boosts w/my tac.
Same gear I get 9,160/facing using Fleet Torkaht.
So, the Vet ship shields are ~81% effective compared to the fleet torkaht.
Edit: I should note the 7,425 is in normal mode, it drops lower in Tac mode.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I know you're saying "only 1/4 to 1/3erd it's output in damage compared to heals! but mav your AC can does 1/3 to 1/2!" That's how nuts the healing is. At the end of an average arena, I have anywhere from 300k to 500k damage. I'll let that math work itself out in your head abit. No doubt oddy players and recluse players are like "lolz only a mill in healing" yeah but unlike your fat garbage scows the Mirror star doesn't need to pump as much raw healing. It has massive resistance givers, (which prevent damage in the first place) and ontop of that it can help end matches faster by setting up kills, pet supression, Defense Score Negation, Premature Hazard forcing, while still providing solid mainline healing. Do note in longer arenas I've racked up well beyond these numbers. That is just the per match average. I also suspect, again that I have just a little more potential left in the ship.
Oh and anyone that thinks an eng in a cruiser just isn't as good as a sci? Ask broken1981 about last night, and how we not only kept up with a team of him and his buddies that had 3 sub nukes (and of one which was delivered by an oddy) but how easily we kept the battlefield under our control :P (with 0 sci captains on our end no less hehe) The eng ain't dead by a long shot. But it can't run the Old Ways as readily anymore. It has to be Aggressive in setup.
Without Further ado.
The Spec: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=mavmirrorSC_0
(my standard eng spec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJT0h30JU0 A video by shimmer showing some of the potency of warp plasma.
Weapons: 7 Polaron beam arrays. 1 Chron mine/tric mine. (haven't tried the tric yet) Acc, Crth2s, after I get all the pieces together. Right now, I have 4 acc crth2s and 3 blue acc2s.
Deflector: Borg (will be dropped for Omega likely at a later date)
Engine Borg: (likely again to be dropped once the chance to the borg set comes, to Omega.
Shields: Mako Mark 12
Consoles: 1 Borg, 1 Ablative Armor, 2 SIF Generators
1 Field Generator, 2 Emitter Array consoles. (can be swapped for the shield regen consoles)
2 Polaron energy.
Devices: 1 Subspace Field mod. Weapon Batteries, Shield Batteries, Aux Batteries.
Power levels: Primary: 95 weapons, 25 shields, 55 engines, 25 aux. Turtle: 70 weapons, 75 shields, 25 engine, 30 aux. Rawr heals: 50 weapons, 75 shields, 25 engine, 75 aux.
Cmdr: EPTS1, ES1, Eject Warp Plasma1, ASIF3. (emergency power to shields1, extend shields 1, and ASIF is aux to structural integrity 3)
Lt Cmdr: EPTS1, ET2 (eng team 2), Extend Shields 2
Lt Sci: Hazard1, TSS2 (transfer shield strength 2)
Ens Sci: Hazard1
Tac: TT, and APD1
Doffs: 3 Maint engs (2 greens and a blue right now. I told you I needed a couple doffs yet!), 1 purple Shield Distribution officer, 1 Extend Shields Warpcore engineer. My next refine ment attempt will put in 2 purple damage control doffs on an All In heal variant. This will let me swap one of my EPTSes out for an EPTA (emergency power to aux) and have 100 percent uptime on both in theory. Which will lead to even more rock solid heal numbers. Once I acquire these, and a purple maint eng. I will simply drop the SDO and put the damage control doff in it's place. For times when I need the SDO slot back will carry my matter anti matter specialist. Which gives warp plasma a 3 second Total Stop, that can reapply every time the DOT does.
Interesting and a little "out of the box" build to be sure.
The 1 ? I have is how are you throwing these damage numbers with the "miss NERF"? When I came back from TOR with my ACCX1 APs I was throwing not much more than 200K due to nothing but "misses". I have since changed over to ACCX2 pols with a couple of ACCX3 thrown in for good measure, slowing haveing to upgrade to ACCX3 as I gave away all my EC, EFF crews, everything that wasn't bound, etc when I left for TOR. (I know, dumb move but I was ticked off lol)
The plasma actually accounts for a fair bit of my overall score.
Anyway, what I wanted to say that's relevant to the cruiser thread is that I wish we had vids because it was a pretty awesome example of what can be done with cruisers in the right hands. Awesome suppression and spike mitigation. If we'd had SNBs it would have been a kill most times times they came off cd, but as it was it came down to who blinked first. Pretty fun stuff.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
my comp was chugging so much that slowed me down for target switching a lot too. i would just target mav and switch to his target. oh man, if we had an snb, with how shut down they were already, those would not have been such long matches
I had the other 30
it was pretty epic though.
was the other 10 % their own herpderp? lol
Nah it was the tractor and GW from our friendly mvam