You can kill stuff with them. This is apparently not allowed.
you can kill stuff with guns too, but you do it differently, and with a lot more effort. with guns you need positioning, buffs on standby, an opportunity, you need to not be getting to much pressure damage from other plays to safely complete your attack, and it helps if your target is beleaguered. you need 7 or 8 good weapons, up to 10 consoles all contributing to your ability to take damage, deal damage and turn, set pieces that you gridded for a week, good piloting skill so you can keep your target in arc, expensive doffs and luck.
with siphon drones, you hit launch siphon drone. it pretty much takes care of its self at that point
But that was done intentionally, because a siphon drone is much easier to destroy than a siphoning ship. That is not "broken", it is just a mechanic many here don't like. Which is an entirely different thing.
That said, I have always agreed that I'd prefer for those drones to be resisted normally, too. But the extreme amount of "OMG broken" you can read here is just... broken.
Apparently you can't read patch notes.
Which means you are completely incompetent at everything.
You'll notice PI is supposed to work albeit at a reduced rate.
PI Does not work during the test sessions I even took off the 2 PI consoles to see if there was a drain difference, there was not.
Also, you still haven't answered the Facts Chump. Why is it okay for the pods to suck better than a 1 time a minute skill, AND out drain power generation?
Then the opponent is doing something wrong. But I have explained counters against them in an earlier thread, no point in repeating it here.
you don't actually play the game do you, at least not against kdf. there is no other way to explain a statement this stupid. VIDEO. EVIDENCE. SAYS. OTHERWISE.
Then the opponent is doing something wrong. But I have explained counters against them in an earlier thread, no point in repeating it here.
The only counter that doesn't require power is Torp Spread... and that won't do you much good since
A) it's uptime is horrendous compared to the rate at which Drones can be spammed the drones have to be in that limited 90' arc
Really, though, I'd love to have you try and counter a drain build, if you'd be up for a 1v1 challenge.
Then the opponent is doing something wrong. But I have explained counters against them in an earlier thread, no point in repeating it here.
Your idea of a counter to Siphon Drones is to destroy them. That is like saying the counter to Escort DPS is to simply destroy the Escort before it fires on you.
However, unlike destroying the Escort before it fires on you, at least with an Escort, if it does fire on you before you destroy it, a highly likely scenario, at least resistances to DPS are working correctly! If not too good!
With Siphon Drones, once the drain begins on you, you cannot stop it. I have firsthand experienced this in 5v5 matches. And I run a Cruiser with 2x EPTA-1, 2x EPTS-III, EPS-PT, Red Matter Capacitor, and Enhanced Plasma Manifold. And I was drained dry while trying to kill the drones.
Why might that be? Oh, that?s right; I cannot kill them faster than they can be spawned with AOE attacks such as FAW. Hell I even equipped the Thunderchild Point Defense System. It saved me for all of the few seconds that it fires?
Your refusal to acknowledge that the Subsystem Power drain from Power Siphon Drones is not being resisted at all from Power Insulators and that the Power Siphon stacks endlessly is a display of dishonesty to the point of trolling in my opinion.
Isn't that a bit like saying the effects of damage should be reduced because it is all or nothing if you are destroyed?
I mean, how is being shut down by energy drain different from being shot down by weapons fire?
No, it isn't even close to the same thing actually, primarily because (aside from Beam Overload) dmg comes in smaller, discrete chunks, which add up over time, and similarly can be countered over time by heals, etc. It is extremely rare that any ship will be destroyed by a single attack from anyone - even the alpha-striking Birds of Prey that use BOIII and HYIII from cloak have to buff those attacks first, and must typically rely on getting a little luck to make everything hit.
Saying that disables from energy drain and weapon dmg are the same because they both result in a destroyed ship is mistaking the end point for the journey. It would be like saying dying peacefully in your sleep is the same as being eaten by a shark - they both result in death!
To understand what people are trying to say, imagine this: Say there was a power that simply shut down your ship for 30 seconds, with no resistance etc. It does no damage, but it basically makes your ship into a shield-less, helpless target for the duration. Now say there was a counter to that power, but the only way to use it on yourself was to see the attack coming and perfectly time the counter's 5 second 'uptime' to match when the power hit, otherwise you have to have a team-mate save you (some old-timers might know what power I am referencing). In a Pug, it might not be so bad, if you have a decent team, all packing the counter (sci team, let's say), and all ready to use it. In a pre-made, however, there was almost no chance you would be able to recover from an organized team spamming the power on every ship, all at once.
This is more or less what Siphons are, not to put to fine a point on it. No, it's not an absolute shut-down, but with 9-14 power, your shields have low resistance and no regen, your weapons don't do any damage, your heals don't really work, and you can't move very fast. Yes, there are counters, but they don't work well, require significantly more skill to use, and/or require a significant opportunity cost to outfit. Even so, you are correct that siphons are not 'auto-win' in a pug, but they require so much more effort and skill to counter than they do to use that when spammed in a 5v5 setting, they can quickly take over the match.
Yep. Heals do. Resistances, that is, armor and shield skill, do not.
Resistances against damage do not work? I seem to recollect we have two posts in the skilltree, giving resistance to both energy and kinetic damage, and consoles for the same, and this works.
But that was done intentionally, because a siphon drone is much easier to destroy than a siphoning ship.
That's like saying you can defeat rain with a paper tissue! You could, if the number of drones were limited, but it's not! They spawn faster than you kan kill them or target them. And anyway, at the same time you will have a full size starship trying to take you down by weapon damage.
I m getting very confused. So is there a specific drain resist problem with Aceton Beam, Plasmonic Leech and Siphon Drones, cause that what I took from the patchnotes and from first hand experience. Or is Tykens Rift and Energy Siphon not working as intended as well
This issue is like math, there is or there isn?t a right answer. Either the Power Insulators work or they do not work. Either the Power Siphon Drone, energy drain stacks continuously or it doesn?t.
So let?s see? but first: Evidence is that which tends to prove or disprove something or to make clear or plain; an indication of something.
First point: Video Evidence demonstrates in a plain and clear manner that the drain effect does seem to stack indefinitely.
Second Point: Video Evidence also clearly and plainly indicates that with or without Power Insulators, the drain effect is the same. This indicates that Power Insulators doesn?t work to mitigate or even prevent some of the drain. Patch notes indicate that Power Insulators are supposed to prevent or mitigate some of the drain. Therefore logically we can conclude that if they are not, then the power drain is not being resisted as intended.
Conclusion: So? we can now clearly argue that the evidence seems to prove that our original statement that Power Siphon Drones are broken because the resistance to the power drains effect is not working as intended. Furthermore, we can plainly argue that the evidence indicates that Power Siphon Drones are over powered because the power drain effect that they place on target, unlike any other ability in the game, stacks indefinitely and apparently without restriction as the video evidence indicates.
So? where is your evidence to demonstrate that our arguments are incorrect? This would be you would need to demonstrate that the video evidence was not valid and that Power Insulators do work and that Power Siphon Drone Energy Drain does not stack indefinitely. Only then would we all be debating the same issue.
What you want to do is debate whether or not they are overpowered because they can be destroyed. We can do that if you want, however, how about we stay on topic and discuss the issue in which we are in fact complaining about. That is again: Power Siphon Drones energy drain is not being resisted by Power Insulators and its drain effect seems to be stacking indefinitely without restriction.
This thread would be powersiphons 3.0, lol. Thing is that we don't know for sure if siphons just drain an insane amount of power and they are a bit resisted or they are just not resisted at all. In essence everybody (including Sophocles) agree that insulators should resist them better. I think thats the fix we should ask for, then see what's going on.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
But that was done intentionally, because a siphon drone is much easier to destroy than a siphoning ship. That is not "broken", it is just a mechanic many here don't like. Which is an entirely different thing.
That said, I have always agreed that I'd prefer for those drones to be resisted normally, too. But the extreme amount of "OMG broken" you can read here is just... broken.
You really don't seem to get it. Just because something is working as designed, does not mean that it is working as intended.
We're a PvP community. We are based on competition between players. We do not care if things are working as designed. What we care about is that power are working within the framework of the combat system, and that they follow the design philosophy. "Broken" powers do not operate within the design philosophy the devs have stated they have for the game themselves: one ship should not be able to completely disable/shut down another ship. To do so would required multiple ships and multiple skills
Lets take a look at the design philosophy of STO in regards to disables and power drains throughout the history of the game, not taking into account sci resist skills. If you have 6 in a skill, you are getting the majority of that 50% resist.
VM3 + full spec into Sensor Probes (a tier 4 skill) allowed you to disable a ship completely for 30 seconds. Add SNB and you got a nasty combo where a Sci/Sci can completely strip a ship of all buffs and completely disable them. While working as designed, Devs said that it did not fit in with the design philosophy of the game. You should not be able to completely disable a ship for 30 secs. This required, 90 degree arc, skill investment, ship and class restrictions.
Beam Target Subsystem (BTSS) stacking was common place in first few months of the game. Stacking different ranks of BTSS from multiple ships could allow you to completely shut down critical systems (shields or engines) of a ship and make they easy pray. Working as designed, but not within the design philosophy and so it was made that you can't stack BTSS. This required, skill and console speccing, multiple ships (Escorts, Sci and cruiser), timing and team work to pull off.
Tricobalt Devices and mines used have a 10 sec disable. No one wants the sit around for 10 seconds not being able to do anything at all. So those got reduced significantly. They were working as intended, but were deemed not to fall into the design philosophy and nerved.
Photonic Shockwave (PSW), used to have a 4 sec flat stun that was chainable. This required multiple ships running PSW (which at the time, only Science ships and BoPs could run) to achieve a stun lock. Of course you need timing, teamwork and positioning to pull it off, but again, while working as intended, it was not within the design philosophy and stun immunity was implemented.
In fact, it used to be that the stun did not wear off until, the ship stopped moving. So following a PSW with tractor beam repulsers, you could extend the stun for another 10 secs (Sorry faithborn, when I did that to you in a 7th core vs TSI match I had no idea it did that, didn't mean to be a jerk). That was working as designed, but again not within the design philosophy and removed from the game.
Shield Stripping used to be very popular. Combining Tachyon beams and Charged Particle Burst (CBP) 3's was a good way for science ships to get through shields. Fully spec with 9 in Astrometrics (tier 5 skill affecting CBP and required for training CPB3), 4 appropriate consoles and the right deflector and a science ship could drain 4500-4900 shields with CBP3. Full strip required 2 science ships with significant skill/console investment, teamwork and positioning. Season 5 came and introduced severe sci resists and Capx4 or x5 shields, rendering shield stripping in PvP effectively useless.
Science power draining was also hit really hard by season 5. Many of the science power drains used to be between 50% to 300% more powerful pre season 5.
BTSS have been reduced in the amount they drain. Using BTSS rank 3, I used to be abel to drain nearly 90 power. This required skill/console speccing, giving up a Lt. Cmd tac slot and acquiring very rare Bridge Officers. When season 5 came out, I think the best I manages was in the mid 60s for drain.
Tykens rift (TR) 3 with 9 in spatial anomaly (tier 5 skill), 4 consoles and 125 aux used to drain around -80 to all subsystems. Coupled with a BTSS 1, you could shut down only 1 critical subsystem on you own. But TR3 was a very rare BOff power only, you couldn't training it and required significant skill and console investment. It was also very fragile to AoE attacks. FAW routinely obliterated TR3. It was also a 90 degree restricted skill. Now the max drain I can get is around -28 to all subsystems. And this is a Cmd level science BOff skill.
So take a look at these KDF power drains and compare them to the previous examples. Where do they fall into the design philosophy of the game either in combination or separately?
I really don't think I spell it out more clearly than this:
Power siphon drones:
drain more than Tyken's Rift 3 ever did,
are less fragile,
are mobile,
are not affected by resists (or at least not as much),
are not arc restricted,
require very little skill/console investment to be effective,
can be used every 9 or 10 seconds,
can have multiple instances of use by a single ship at the same time (ie. multiple wings per hanger) and can completely shut down a ship. A well micro managed carrier could probably shut down 2 ships at the same time.
All at no cost to the carrier.
Before you mention counters, it has already been established that the counters are not effective because of all of the following:
Arc restrictions
Firing cycle delays to target switching
Siphons Spawn every 9 - 10 seconds, uptime on clearing powers are far lower
Weapons require enough power to do the damage to destroy them
Power boost don't make a difference
Putting distance to destroy them before they drain results is your team being down 1 ship. This means: fewer targets for your enemies to spread their fire across; you being out of range to heal or offer support to team mates; when you do destroy the siphons, the carrier has spawned new ones and set them on you again or a team mate; now you have to either destroy the siphons and save your team mate or let him die and target the carrier. When he dies, siphons are coming for you and you more than likely haven't killed the carrier. if you destroy the drones, well yay new ones have spawned and are now on you again.
Involve sacrificing significant firepower, cc ability or healing capabilities
Join Date: Sep 2009
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
very nice post beary, especially bringing back some of the old time abilities, hopefully devs take a look at it and consider it when fixing siphons. In fact siphons are much worse than the old VM3 was (only thing is that you can see them closing in easier), they really do need some look into.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
(i actually got Era down to 20ish% once with my BoP in a useless pug group, by pushing him away, and SNBing his PH off for further pushing. I think recently broken PSW and broken DBB-FAW were two of the most fun and interreting playstyles this game ever had...)
(i actually got Era down to 20ish% once with my BoP in a useless pug group, by pushing him away, and SNBing his PH off for further pushing. I think recently broken PSW and broken DBB-FAW were two of the most fun and interreting playstyles this game ever had...)
F'ing up an opponents attack run is one of the last fun things in this game. You can see the rage in their ship why they look for the target that just f'd up all there alpha planning =P...
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions Zeadonouse ToLate
Well finding out how to make dbb/faw took me 1 - 2 weeks, It wasn't quite clear what made it do so much damage at sometimes and so TRIBBLE damage at othertimes, we kinda figured it out when we did 1v1 with no carrier pets around, anyhew was a pretty fun setup to play but it became abit silly when multiple people ran that setup .)
Comments
you can kill stuff with guns too, but you do it differently, and with a lot more effort. with guns you need positioning, buffs on standby, an opportunity, you need to not be getting to much pressure damage from other plays to safely complete your attack, and it helps if your target is beleaguered. you need 7 or 8 good weapons, up to 10 consoles all contributing to your ability to take damage, deal damage and turn, set pieces that you gridded for a week, good piloting skill so you can keep your target in arc, expensive doffs and luck.
with siphon drones, you hit launch siphon drone. it pretty much takes care of its self at that point
Apparently you can't read patch notes.
Which means you are completely incompetent at everything.
You'll notice PI is supposed to work albeit at a reduced rate.
PI Does not work during the test sessions I even took off the 2 PI consoles to see if there was a drain difference, there was not.
Also, you still haven't answered the Facts Chump. Why is it okay for the pods to suck better than a 1 time a minute skill, AND out drain power generation?
you don't actually play the game do you, at least not against kdf. there is no other way to explain a statement this stupid. VIDEO. EVIDENCE. SAYS. OTHERWISE.
The only counter that doesn't require power is Torp Spread... and that won't do you much good since
A) it's uptime is horrendous compared to the rate at which Drones can be spammed
Really, though, I'd love to have you try and counter a drain build, if you'd be up for a 1v1 challenge.
Your idea of a counter to Siphon Drones is to destroy them. That is like saying the counter to Escort DPS is to simply destroy the Escort before it fires on you.
However, unlike destroying the Escort before it fires on you, at least with an Escort, if it does fire on you before you destroy it, a highly likely scenario, at least resistances to DPS are working correctly! If not too good!
With Siphon Drones, once the drain begins on you, you cannot stop it. I have firsthand experienced this in 5v5 matches. And I run a Cruiser with 2x EPTA-1, 2x EPTS-III, EPS-PT, Red Matter Capacitor, and Enhanced Plasma Manifold. And I was drained dry while trying to kill the drones.
Why might that be? Oh, that?s right; I cannot kill them faster than they can be spawned with AOE attacks such as FAW. Hell I even equipped the Thunderchild Point Defense System. It saved me for all of the few seconds that it fires?
Your refusal to acknowledge that the Subsystem Power drain from Power Siphon Drones is not being resisted at all from Power Insulators and that the Power Siphon stacks endlessly is a display of dishonesty to the point of trolling in my opinion.
No, it isn't even close to the same thing actually, primarily because (aside from Beam Overload) dmg comes in smaller, discrete chunks, which add up over time, and similarly can be countered over time by heals, etc. It is extremely rare that any ship will be destroyed by a single attack from anyone - even the alpha-striking Birds of Prey that use BOIII and HYIII from cloak have to buff those attacks first, and must typically rely on getting a little luck to make everything hit.
Saying that disables from energy drain and weapon dmg are the same because they both result in a destroyed ship is mistaking the end point for the journey. It would be like saying dying peacefully in your sleep is the same as being eaten by a shark - they both result in death!
To understand what people are trying to say, imagine this: Say there was a power that simply shut down your ship for 30 seconds, with no resistance etc. It does no damage, but it basically makes your ship into a shield-less, helpless target for the duration. Now say there was a counter to that power, but the only way to use it on yourself was to see the attack coming and perfectly time the counter's 5 second 'uptime' to match when the power hit, otherwise you have to have a team-mate save you (some old-timers might know what power I am referencing). In a Pug, it might not be so bad, if you have a decent team, all packing the counter (sci team, let's say), and all ready to use it. In a pre-made, however, there was almost no chance you would be able to recover from an organized team spamming the power on every ship, all at once.
This is more or less what Siphons are, not to put to fine a point on it. No, it's not an absolute shut-down, but with 9-14 power, your shields have low resistance and no regen, your weapons don't do any damage, your heals don't really work, and you can't move very fast. Yes, there are counters, but they don't work well, require significantly more skill to use, and/or require a significant opportunity cost to outfit. Even so, you are correct that siphons are not 'auto-win' in a pug, but they require so much more effort and skill to counter than they do to use that when spammed in a 5v5 setting, they can quickly take over the match.
That's like saying you can defeat rain with a paper tissue! You could, if the number of drones were limited, but it's not! They spawn faster than you kan kill them or target them. And anyway, at the same time you will have a full size starship trying to take you down by weapon damage.
Yeah... I remember that thread! Som poor guy spent a respec and followed all the counter-advice at hand, and it didn't work!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
Very much this as well
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Let?s not and say we did?
This issue is like math, there is or there isn?t a right answer. Either the Power Insulators work or they do not work. Either the Power Siphon Drone, energy drain stacks continuously or it doesn?t.
So let?s see? but first: Evidence is that which tends to prove or disprove something or to make clear or plain; an indication of something.
First point: Video Evidence demonstrates in a plain and clear manner that the drain effect does seem to stack indefinitely.
Second Point: Video Evidence also clearly and plainly indicates that with or without Power Insulators, the drain effect is the same. This indicates that Power Insulators doesn?t work to mitigate or even prevent some of the drain. Patch notes indicate that Power Insulators are supposed to prevent or mitigate some of the drain. Therefore logically we can conclude that if they are not, then the power drain is not being resisted as intended.
Conclusion: So? we can now clearly argue that the evidence seems to prove that our original statement that Power Siphon Drones are broken because the resistance to the power drains effect is not working as intended. Furthermore, we can plainly argue that the evidence indicates that Power Siphon Drones are over powered because the power drain effect that they place on target, unlike any other ability in the game, stacks indefinitely and apparently without restriction as the video evidence indicates.
So? where is your evidence to demonstrate that our arguments are incorrect? This would be you would need to demonstrate that the video evidence was not valid and that Power Insulators do work and that Power Siphon Drone Energy Drain does not stack indefinitely. Only then would we all be debating the same issue.
What you want to do is debate whether or not they are overpowered because they can be destroyed. We can do that if you want, however, how about we stay on topic and discuss the issue in which we are in fact complaining about. That is again: Power Siphon Drones energy drain is not being resisted by Power Insulators and its drain effect seems to be stacking indefinitely without restriction.
Alright, well, have a good night then.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
You really don't seem to get it. Just because something is working as designed, does not mean that it is working as intended.
We're a PvP community. We are based on competition between players. We do not care if things are working as designed. What we care about is that power are working within the framework of the combat system, and that they follow the design philosophy. "Broken" powers do not operate within the design philosophy the devs have stated they have for the game themselves: one ship should not be able to completely disable/shut down another ship. To do so would required multiple ships and multiple skills
Lets take a look at the design philosophy of STO in regards to disables and power drains throughout the history of the game, not taking into account sci resist skills. If you have 6 in a skill, you are getting the majority of that 50% resist.
VM3 + full spec into Sensor Probes (a tier 4 skill) allowed you to disable a ship completely for 30 seconds. Add SNB and you got a nasty combo where a Sci/Sci can completely strip a ship of all buffs and completely disable them. While working as designed, Devs said that it did not fit in with the design philosophy of the game. You should not be able to completely disable a ship for 30 secs. This required, 90 degree arc, skill investment, ship and class restrictions.
Beam Target Subsystem (BTSS) stacking was common place in first few months of the game. Stacking different ranks of BTSS from multiple ships could allow you to completely shut down critical systems (shields or engines) of a ship and make they easy pray. Working as designed, but not within the design philosophy and so it was made that you can't stack BTSS. This required, skill and console speccing, multiple ships (Escorts, Sci and cruiser), timing and team work to pull off.
Tricobalt Devices and mines used have a 10 sec disable. No one wants the sit around for 10 seconds not being able to do anything at all. So those got reduced significantly. They were working as intended, but were deemed not to fall into the design philosophy and nerved.
Photonic Shockwave (PSW), used to have a 4 sec flat stun that was chainable. This required multiple ships running PSW (which at the time, only Science ships and BoPs could run) to achieve a stun lock. Of course you need timing, teamwork and positioning to pull it off, but again, while working as intended, it was not within the design philosophy and stun immunity was implemented.
In fact, it used to be that the stun did not wear off until, the ship stopped moving. So following a PSW with tractor beam repulsers, you could extend the stun for another 10 secs (Sorry faithborn, when I did that to you in a 7th core vs TSI match I had no idea it did that, didn't mean to be a jerk). That was working as designed, but again not within the design philosophy and removed from the game.
Shield Stripping used to be very popular. Combining Tachyon beams and Charged Particle Burst (CBP) 3's was a good way for science ships to get through shields. Fully spec with 9 in Astrometrics (tier 5 skill affecting CBP and required for training CPB3), 4 appropriate consoles and the right deflector and a science ship could drain 4500-4900 shields with CBP3. Full strip required 2 science ships with significant skill/console investment, teamwork and positioning. Season 5 came and introduced severe sci resists and Capx4 or x5 shields, rendering shield stripping in PvP effectively useless.
Science power draining was also hit really hard by season 5. Many of the science power drains used to be between 50% to 300% more powerful pre season 5.
BTSS have been reduced in the amount they drain. Using BTSS rank 3, I used to be abel to drain nearly 90 power. This required skill/console speccing, giving up a Lt. Cmd tac slot and acquiring very rare Bridge Officers. When season 5 came out, I think the best I manages was in the mid 60s for drain.
Tykens rift (TR) 3 with 9 in spatial anomaly (tier 5 skill), 4 consoles and 125 aux used to drain around -80 to all subsystems. Coupled with a BTSS 1, you could shut down only 1 critical subsystem on you own. But TR3 was a very rare BOff power only, you couldn't training it and required significant skill and console investment. It was also very fragile to AoE attacks. FAW routinely obliterated TR3. It was also a 90 degree restricted skill. Now the max drain I can get is around -28 to all subsystems. And this is a Cmd level science BOff skill.
So take a look at these KDF power drains and compare them to the previous examples. Where do they fall into the design philosophy of the game either in combination or separately?
I really don't think I spell it out more clearly than this:
Power siphon drones:
drain more than Tyken's Rift 3 ever did,
are less fragile,
are mobile,
are not affected by resists (or at least not as much),
are not arc restricted,
require very little skill/console investment to be effective,
can be used every 9 or 10 seconds,
can have multiple instances of use by a single ship at the same time (ie. multiple wings per hanger) and can completely shut down a ship. A well micro managed carrier could probably shut down 2 ships at the same time.
All at no cost to the carrier.
Before you mention counters, it has already been established that the counters are not effective because of all of the following:
Arc restrictions
Firing cycle delays to target switching
Siphons Spawn every 9 - 10 seconds, uptime on clearing powers are far lower
Weapons require enough power to do the damage to destroy them
Power boost don't make a difference
Putting distance to destroy them before they drain results is your team being down 1 ship. This means: fewer targets for your enemies to spread their fire across; you being out of range to heal or offer support to team mates; when you do destroy the siphons, the carrier has spawned new ones and set them on you again or a team mate; now you have to either destroy the siphons and save your team mate or let him die and target the carrier. When he dies, siphons are coming for you and you more than likely haven't killed the carrier. if you destroy the drones, well yay new ones have spawned and are now on you again.
Involve sacrificing significant firepower, cc ability or healing capabilities
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Sorry for DBB-FAW+TBR...
(i actually got Era down to 20ish% once with my BoP in a useless pug group, by pushing him away, and SNBing his PH off for further pushing.
F'ing up an opponents attack run is one of the last fun things in this game. You can see the rage in their ship why they look for the target that just f'd up all there alpha planning =P...
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate
Thx