I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously.
Your response indicates that you seem to not have actually read the OP or responses to it.
If you take the time to re-read the original post, as well as the posts that follow as well as the vast majority of posts in this sub-forum on this issue, then you will see the following:
1. There are few to zero complaints about Sci/Sci drain builds.
2. There are few to zero complaints about any actual Sci BOFF drain powers such as Tykens or Energy Siphon.
3. People DO have legitimate complaints about Power Siphon Drones a nearly un-resistable, spammable pet that the caster can have slotted into 2 hangars on a 9s re-cast with Aux/DOFFs.
4. People DO have legitimate complaints about Plasmonic Leech. A universal console that can be slotted on any KDF ship, not just Sci or Carriers, and only requires you to fire on your target for effect. It is not restricted by the normal BOFF cooldown or power usage rules and is always on.
5.People DO have legitimate complaints about Aceton Assimilators. Another universal console that can be slotted on any KDF ship, not just Sci or Carriers, and requires no added effort on the part of the user other than the initial cast.
6.People DO have a legitimate complaint about the following:
The power drain ability of Siphon Drones, Jem'Hadar Dreadnoughts and Breen Fighters can now be resisted, but only half as effectively as typical energy drains.*
The power drain ability of the Plasmonic Leech Console can now be resisted, but only half as effectively as typical energy drains.*
In case you missed it, the devs felt that for some reason the easiest to use items that are completely unhindered by the standard BOFF power cooldown rules, and in fact do not even require a BOFF power selection are the powers that are the least resisted.
*Typical energy drains refers to powers such as Tykens & Energy Siphon.
Let me start by saying that I wondered why you did not react to the power drain drones rather than just staying there to let them suck you dry.
Evasive maneuvers lets you outdistance them and kill them easy with FAW. Drones are VERY slow.
Where are your repulsors? They're the #1 counter to drones. Kills them as fast as they can be launched against you.
..and despite the fact that you were power drained to 14 in all systems you still retained shields and tanked just as well as you did before. Why? Emg power to shields does not use shield power level to heal the shields.
With your low aux power setting transfer shield strength does very little for you. You could swap that for a repulsor beam and a scramble sensors (for pvp) to aid your defense and tank.. scramble sensor give you a good nice 5 to 10 seconds of no incoming damage in which your shields can be healed up..and annoys the heck out of people. Repulsors can give your ship good hull damage on target (aim nose at target, hit evasive maneuver and repulsor.. and watch him HURT as you take him for the ride) and is an excellent defense vs drones, mines and vs escorts that use their speed and turn rate to stay in front/rear of your ship to avoid your full beam broadside. Push them out while you turn and POW you broadside them.
I will say in Sophlogimo's defense, I use a (2) DHC, (1) DBB, (1) torp set-up on my Qin and find it workable to my playing style. Its not for everybody but its hardly ineffective.
On the note of the Plasmonic Leech, It had little to do in this fight as the OP only had one on him and it didn't hit Stack Cap very often (if at all). Frankly I though it was fixed, could only be applied to a target once regardless of number of attackers and since it has to be built up to maximum stack cap through constant fire, its easy to never get it maxed in the time it takes to kill something.
I think the playerbase may be stuck in the belief its OP, when its not anymore. Annoying yes, OP no.
Let me start by saying that I wondered why you did not react to the power drain drones rather than just staying there to let them suck you dry.
Evasive maneuvers lets you outdistance them and kill them easy with FAW. Drones are VERY slow.
Where are your repulsors? They're the #1 counter to drones. Kills them as fast as they can be launched against you.
..and despite the fact that you were power drained to 14 in all systems you still retained shields and tanked just as well as you did before. Why? Emg power to shields does not use shield power level to heal the shields.
With your low aux power setting transfer shield strength does very little for you. You could swap that for a repulsor beam and a scramble sensors (for pvp) to aid your defense and tank.. scramble sensor give you a good nice 5 to 10 seconds of no incoming damage in which your shields can be healed up..and annoys the heck out of people. Repulsors can give your ship good hull damage on target (aim nose at target, hit evasive maneuver and repulsor.. and watch him HURT as you take him for the ride) and is an excellent defense vs drones, mines and vs escorts that use their speed and turn rate to stay in front/rear of your ship to avoid your full beam broadside. Push them out while you turn and POW you broadside them.
The video was a demonstration video of the power of power siphons, and a demonstration that the Resistance skills do not actually work properly. And Power Adders such as Batteries, EPTX, and EPS power transfer similarly do nothing to stop the drain once it starts.
The problem is, in Live pvp, against good ships, you'll be seeing people lose their power levels easily, due to how fast you can spawn drones vs AOE, and the inherit limitations of the AOEs being Power Dependent.
If you noticed the carrier nor the bop were actually trying to kill me. The bop was set to 25 weapons on the slider to throw in lolaron procs into the mix, as was the carrier. Neither were actually trying to kill my ship. Had they desired to they could have done that easily once power levels dropped below 25 due to the utter lack of SDR, and shield regeneration.
Also, I know how to build a cruiser champ. When I'm cranking I sit at 115 aux settings with that /25 slider. Also scramble does not apply to carrier pets. TBR has a 45 second CD, vs the 15 second spawn rate of the Siphon pods. The ship in question in that video is capable of massive power generation. That it can't even generate power to keep up with siphon drones, while also having Power Insulators is very illustrative of the problem of the siphon drones.
FAW does not have a 100 percent up time either even with 2 copies, which gives the drones enough time to acquire the target and drain enough power to negate faws killing power. Warp plasma is Speed Dependent, and without engine power you can not coat the battlefield properly to supress the pets either.
The real funny bit there is, there was no TR3 nor VM. Had either of those also been employed it wouldn't matter what you try to do. You'd be simply Done.
"Counters" only work to surpress the drones in 1v1 coverage. The problem is of course pvp doesn't exist 1v1. It's 5v5. And if you have a properly built drain team right now there is Nothing you can do to overcome it.
... scramble sensors (for pvp) to aid your defense and tank.. scramble sensor give you a good nice 5 to 10 seconds of no incoming damage in which your shields can be healed up..and annoys the heck out of people
Just as u mention ss. I guess im the only person who liked the old version of ss3 with randomly switching targets.
Oh, I would not doubt that. But your reply indicates that you have either not read or not understood what I wrote, possibly by reading what others claim that I had written.
Yes, you did. But you don't understand it. Maybe it is due to me not being a native speaker, but when I write:
"I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously."
...I don't mean that there are no legitimate complains, but that this particular issue is no more broken than another. Which is why I don't see any real problem.
You don't seem to really grasp what that means. So please, think about it, ask questions if you want. Before that, though, discussion is necessarily fruitless.
Heals easily defeat Escort damage.
Power Generation, and Power Insulation don't even come close to defeating Power Siphons. AOEs, have limited use, as each and every single one of them in turn is also countered by Power Siphons, and are additionally out spawned by it.
I get it, you use it as a crutch to compensate for your utter lack of ability. And you're mad that everyone including others that use it know just how ridiculous they are.
Yep. Heals do. Resistances, that is, armor and shield skill, do not.
So if there is a need to change something about energy drains, it is with the boff counters, not with the way resistances work.
Actually, Shield Resistance does defeat Escorts. SDR defeats it so easily, that you can move your heals to other team mates while being fired about even by the best escorts if you are set up correctly. And the shield total skill? Yeah you need to rank that, or else you won't have nearly the capacity needed to be in a sustained fire fight in this game, Escorts on the Field or not. So yes, hull points and SPs actually Work to help you endure fire. Power Insulators? Doesn't help.
Even just lowly EPTS1 and a Tac Team is usually enough to defeat even all but the best alpha strikes.
And what would you change exactly? Go watch the video. Look at how much power generation helps. It doesn't. Go ahead watch it. Add more power generation? I generate enough power to peg almost every subsystem at the same time in my eng cruiser. And it still gets sucked dry in the same amount of time than if I didn't have anything generating power at all in the first place.
What are you going to do make special Power Drain Resist boff skills? Which get put where exactly? What other functions do they have? Because if that is literally their only function, their opp cost is far too high. And then you become an Easy Target for bops that aren't loaded at /25 weapon power. but at the full 125 and tac buffs. Or god forbid Sub nukes, and still VMs with it. So basically, you're screwed for having the resist skills to the pets because then you won't have the necessary SDR and heals to withstand the burst on the enemy team. Or you have the ability to resist the damage, but not the drains. Oh and even if you are carrying the power drain resist boff skill you want to invent, it's duration will still be inevitably too short, and the CD too long to deal with carrier pets effectively due to the spawn speed of the drones.
Face it their broken. No amount of pretending otherwise by you is going to change that.
The biggest issue with Siphon Drones is that they do not die easily enough in combat and since so, they can be kept up faster than the target can remove them.
They need to be weaker in defenses so the standard Spam counters can kill them.
Frankly I believe the Danube shuttles need to be similary tweaked as well.
The biggest issue with Siphon Drones is that they do not die easily enough in combat and since so, they can be kept up faster than the target can remove them.
They need to be weaker in defenses so the standard Spam counters can kill them.
Frankly I believe the Danube shuttles need to be similary tweaked as well.
The fact that they out drain the resists and power generation even when combined is the problem. We both know they won't change the doffs spawn rates because like sophie here Jman and Captain Idiot don't see what the problem is.
The problem is, also their counters are also Power Dependent in order to do their job effectively. Kind of hard to pull that trick off once you've been siphoned.
Better solution would be just to remove the damn drones all together since they do a better job at draining than a ship specced in target subsystems, VM, and TR3 do, and do it alot faster, and reliably. A Pet has replaced an entire ship build. And to be made worse can easily be combined with said build to turn every fight into a /faceroll.
At least the Danubes don't render AOE fire useless because they don't suck away any and all power available even when cranking enough power to peg all of your subsystems even the ones on /25 sliders. I mean hell you can pop APO, or PH and get out of the worst Danubes have to offer. Can't do that with siphon pods.
Lower thier defenses so the Drones die easily and the issue is almost moot.
Much like being prepared for TB, if you carry the Spam clearing abilities you could pop them, recover and hopefully apply pressure to thier User fast enough to get the upperhand in the average fight.
Not saying Drain mechanics ingame are not needing some scrutiny, just that removing the SIphons all together should not be an option.
Frankly they only seem to work this well when one is specced, consoled and equiped for being a Drain-build vessel. On a normal build they are far less effective without the buffing from consoles, skills and the like.
Removing the persistant nature of them would go along way to solving the issue.
the drones need to self destruct after 5 seconds of draining, if they wont fix the drain/resist values so they are with in a mile of each other. or remove them, ya that sounds good. all giving pets befuddling abilities does is add another pseudo sci/sci to your team, that usually ends up being twice as min mixed as you can build a player ship to ever be.
and holy christ, shield resistance is about 70% of any functioning defense, 20% being heal cycling, and about 10% being capacity/regeneration. resisting damage means that you didn't take damage that you now have to heal, escorts can be tanked all day if you have strong shield power resistance and at least epts1 and tss with rsp and distro doffs cycling.
I'm going to say this again, even though I suggested it in two or three of these threads already. I believe the best way to fix Power Siphon Drones is to simple give them the Energy Siphon Ability whereas the drones have to activate the ability and wait for a cool-down timer to re-activate the ability.
I suggest the same thing for the Runabouts with tractor beam. Problem solved! As the abilities have resistances that seem too working properly.
Yes, you did. But you don't understand it. Maybe it is due to me not being a native speaker, but when I write:
"I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously."
I didn't realize you were not a native speaker, so I'll cut you some slack.
I'll cover it again, but please go back and re-read my original post with more details.
I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously.
Funny thing is, the same people who complain about power drain builds being "OP" also claim that sci/sci ships are not worth it... contradiction much.
The point of my response to that statement, which I encourage you to re-read, is that
Power Drain Build does not equal a Sci/Sci ship.
That's where the difference is.
A power drain build, while it does utilize Sci powers - gets the main bulk of its nastiness (and the focus of most rage threads) are the parts of the build that are not actually Sci powers.
Which is, specifically, items like Power Siphon Drones, Plasmonic Leech and Aceton Assimilators.
These are not Sci captain powers, and they are not linked nor specific to "Sci Ships" (which Carriers are somewhat similar but also not the same).
So what you see people complaining about as 1 issue is actually two issues:
1) Sci / Sci builds (and Sci Ships & Sci BOFF powers by extension) have been systematically reduced in effectiveness. People are not happy about the loss of their viability.
2) Power Drain Items that are divorced from actual Science Captains, Science Ships and Science BOFFs are generally overpowered, with few to zero counters and can be generated/spammed in a way that prevents dealing with them when you face them enmasse.
That's the point.
The other part of the problem is that you continue to assume that DPS escorts are "broken" when they quite clearly are not.
So if there is a need to change something about energy drains, it is with the boff counters, not with the way resistances work.
This is where it gets harder to cut you any slack, as I just posted in response to you how powers like plasmonic leech, power siphon and aceton assimilators are specifically NOT resisted the same way all other drains are.
The issue is moot anyway. "The drones are overpowered, you actually can kill stuff with them" is a very strange line of argument.
I must agree with your from a plausibility point of view, though. Most pets are much too tough for their size when compared to the giant ships.
You obviously did not watch the video posted by the OP.
You can see throughout, the only drain he is suffering from is from Leech and Power Siphons. All of his power leves are dropped to 15 whether or not he uses Batteries, Emergency Powers to X or EPS. IT looks like he might be running MACO shields as well That means he is being drained by about 140+ power in each subsystem and that is pretty much all coming from what looks like 2 flights of Advanced power drones.
A fully Specced science ship running Tyken's 3, Energy Siphon and Target subsystems can't even get close to that level of drain if the target has no resistances to power drains let alone if they are specced for resistances.
You are the one who doesn't understand what this thread is about. This is not about legitimate Power drain builds that do not really on Power siphons, this is about Power siphons.
Power Siphons are not overpowered because you can kill a ship with them; they are overpowered because the drain is not resistible, the magnitude and the amount of times it stacks is so far out of line with all other power drain abilities in the game. Beam Target subsystems do not stack on the same system as it was deemed overpowered and out of line of the original intent of power drains. Yet here we have power siphons that can stack indefinitely to all subsystems and be maintained pretty much indefinitely, which makes them orders of magnitude more powerful than stacking Beam Target subsytems ever were. In case you didn't know, an Order of Magnitude generally means 10 times greater, and thus several means we're talking 100's or more times more effective. Stacking Target subsystems required multiple ships running Target subsystems powers of rank 2 or 3. A carrier can now do it more effectively all by itself.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I must agree with your from a plausibility point of view, though. Most pets are much too tough for their size when compared to the giant ships.
I must agree. Being throw away forces, I expect them to not all be so persistant.
In response to the last post, The OP is also being hit by Phasers, subsystem targeting and possibly Polarons as well in that video, so its possible his drain was more than just Leech (which never capped) and the Siphon Drones.
This doesn't excuse Siphon drones from needing to be fixed in some form or fashion, it just shows that the drain in question was from more than just the boogeymen of the KDF drain choices.
Same is true for power siphon drones: They are working as intended. They were specifically buffed to not be that easily resisted.
They weren't meant to be resisted, though half as well as other drains.
There's no resisting Siphon Drones at all. Furthermore, all of the Siphon Drone counters are negated by the fact that the resistance is broken and the fact that the Drones can be spawned far faster than any of the counters can be cycled.
The Drones also drain far more than they should be. Unless, of course, you want to tell me that Drones that can be spawned every 9 seconds SHOULD be draining more than my 125 Aux, 5 Flow Capacitor-boosted Tyken's 3.
Comments
Your response indicates that you seem to not have actually read the OP or responses to it.
If you take the time to re-read the original post, as well as the posts that follow as well as the vast majority of posts in this sub-forum on this issue, then you will see the following:
1. There are few to zero complaints about Sci/Sci drain builds.
2. There are few to zero complaints about any actual Sci BOFF drain powers such as Tykens or Energy Siphon.
3. People DO have legitimate complaints about Power Siphon Drones a nearly un-resistable, spammable pet that the caster can have slotted into 2 hangars on a 9s re-cast with Aux/DOFFs.
4. People DO have legitimate complaints about Plasmonic Leech. A universal console that can be slotted on any KDF ship, not just Sci or Carriers, and only requires you to fire on your target for effect. It is not restricted by the normal BOFF cooldown or power usage rules and is always on.
5.People DO have legitimate complaints about Aceton Assimilators. Another universal console that can be slotted on any KDF ship, not just Sci or Carriers, and requires no added effort on the part of the user other than the initial cast.
6.People DO have a legitimate complaint about the following:
From the May 3rd 2012 Patch Notes:
The power drain ability of Siphon Drones, Jem'Hadar Dreadnoughts and Breen Fighters can now be resisted, but only half as effectively as typical energy drains.*
The power drain ability of the Plasmonic Leech Console can now be resisted, but only half as effectively as typical energy drains.*
*Typical energy drains refers to powers such as Tykens & Energy Siphon.
The complaints are not about Sci/Sci ships.
How did you even manage to come to this conclusion?
Let me start by saying that I wondered why you did not react to the power drain drones rather than just staying there to let them suck you dry.
Evasive maneuvers lets you outdistance them and kill them easy with FAW. Drones are VERY slow.
Where are your repulsors? They're the #1 counter to drones. Kills them as fast as they can be launched against you.
..and despite the fact that you were power drained to 14 in all systems you still retained shields and tanked just as well as you did before. Why? Emg power to shields does not use shield power level to heal the shields.
With your low aux power setting transfer shield strength does very little for you. You could swap that for a repulsor beam and a scramble sensors (for pvp) to aid your defense and tank.. scramble sensor give you a good nice 5 to 10 seconds of no incoming damage in which your shields can be healed up..and annoys the heck out of people. Repulsors can give your ship good hull damage on target (aim nose at target, hit evasive maneuver and repulsor.. and watch him HURT as you take him for the ride) and is an excellent defense vs drones, mines and vs escorts that use their speed and turn rate to stay in front/rear of your ship to avoid your full beam broadside. Push them out while you turn and POW you broadside them.
Ahm, im sorry but today is my first day and i rly dont know how to pvp or when i have to leave the battlefield.
But now seriously. I made it only to show that the counters dont work, ya know?
And even with TSS at minimum aux this funny bop doesnt kill me^^
On the note of the Plasmonic Leech, It had little to do in this fight as the OP only had one on him and it didn't hit Stack Cap very often (if at all). Frankly I though it was fixed, could only be applied to a target once regardless of number of attackers and since it has to be built up to maximum stack cap through constant fire, its easy to never get it maxed in the time it takes to kill something.
I think the playerbase may be stuck in the belief its OP, when its not anymore. Annoying yes, OP no.
R.I.P
The video was a demonstration video of the power of power siphons, and a demonstration that the Resistance skills do not actually work properly. And Power Adders such as Batteries, EPTX, and EPS power transfer similarly do nothing to stop the drain once it starts.
The problem is, in Live pvp, against good ships, you'll be seeing people lose their power levels easily, due to how fast you can spawn drones vs AOE, and the inherit limitations of the AOEs being Power Dependent.
If you noticed the carrier nor the bop were actually trying to kill me. The bop was set to 25 weapons on the slider to throw in lolaron procs into the mix, as was the carrier. Neither were actually trying to kill my ship. Had they desired to they could have done that easily once power levels dropped below 25 due to the utter lack of SDR, and shield regeneration.
Also, I know how to build a cruiser champ. When I'm cranking I sit at 115 aux settings with that /25 slider. Also scramble does not apply to carrier pets. TBR has a 45 second CD, vs the 15 second spawn rate of the Siphon pods. The ship in question in that video is capable of massive power generation. That it can't even generate power to keep up with siphon drones, while also having Power Insulators is very illustrative of the problem of the siphon drones.
FAW does not have a 100 percent up time either even with 2 copies, which gives the drones enough time to acquire the target and drain enough power to negate faws killing power. Warp plasma is Speed Dependent, and without engine power you can not coat the battlefield properly to supress the pets either.
The real funny bit there is, there was no TR3 nor VM. Had either of those also been employed it wouldn't matter what you try to do. You'd be simply Done.
"Counters" only work to surpress the drones in 1v1 coverage. The problem is of course pvp doesn't exist 1v1. It's 5v5. And if you have a properly built drain team right now there is Nothing you can do to overcome it.
Just as u mention ss. I guess im the only person who liked the old version of ss3 with randomly switching targets.
No, I quoted you directly.
It's actually right there in my post.
You do remember what you posted, don't you?
Heals easily defeat Escort damage.
Power Generation, and Power Insulation don't even come close to defeating Power Siphons. AOEs, have limited use, as each and every single one of them in turn is also countered by Power Siphons, and are additionally out spawned by it.
I get it, you use it as a crutch to compensate for your utter lack of ability. And you're mad that everyone including others that use it know just how ridiculous they are.
Actually, Shield Resistance does defeat Escorts. SDR defeats it so easily, that you can move your heals to other team mates while being fired about even by the best escorts if you are set up correctly. And the shield total skill? Yeah you need to rank that, or else you won't have nearly the capacity needed to be in a sustained fire fight in this game, Escorts on the Field or not. So yes, hull points and SPs actually Work to help you endure fire. Power Insulators? Doesn't help.
Even just lowly EPTS1 and a Tac Team is usually enough to defeat even all but the best alpha strikes.
And what would you change exactly? Go watch the video. Look at how much power generation helps. It doesn't. Go ahead watch it. Add more power generation? I generate enough power to peg almost every subsystem at the same time in my eng cruiser. And it still gets sucked dry in the same amount of time than if I didn't have anything generating power at all in the first place.
What are you going to do make special Power Drain Resist boff skills? Which get put where exactly? What other functions do they have? Because if that is literally their only function, their opp cost is far too high. And then you become an Easy Target for bops that aren't loaded at /25 weapon power. but at the full 125 and tac buffs. Or god forbid Sub nukes, and still VMs with it. So basically, you're screwed for having the resist skills to the pets because then you won't have the necessary SDR and heals to withstand the burst on the enemy team. Or you have the ability to resist the damage, but not the drains. Oh and even if you are carrying the power drain resist boff skill you want to invent, it's duration will still be inevitably too short, and the CD too long to deal with carrier pets effectively due to the spawn speed of the drones.
Face it their broken. No amount of pretending otherwise by you is going to change that.
The biggest issue with Siphon Drones is that they do not die easily enough in combat and since so, they can be kept up faster than the target can remove them.
They need to be weaker in defenses so the standard Spam counters can kill them.
Frankly I believe the Danube shuttles need to be similary tweaked as well.
R.I.P
The fact that they out drain the resists and power generation even when combined is the problem. We both know they won't change the doffs spawn rates because like sophie here Jman and Captain Idiot don't see what the problem is.
The problem is, also their counters are also Power Dependent in order to do their job effectively. Kind of hard to pull that trick off once you've been siphoned.
Better solution would be just to remove the damn drones all together since they do a better job at draining than a ship specced in target subsystems, VM, and TR3 do, and do it alot faster, and reliably. A Pet has replaced an entire ship build. And to be made worse can easily be combined with said build to turn every fight into a /faceroll.
At least the Danubes don't render AOE fire useless because they don't suck away any and all power available even when cranking enough power to peg all of your subsystems even the ones on /25 sliders. I mean hell you can pop APO, or PH and get out of the worst Danubes have to offer. Can't do that with siphon pods.
Much like being prepared for TB, if you carry the Spam clearing abilities you could pop them, recover and hopefully apply pressure to thier User fast enough to get the upperhand in the average fight.
Not saying Drain mechanics ingame are not needing some scrutiny, just that removing the SIphons all together should not be an option.
Frankly they only seem to work this well when one is specced, consoled and equiped for being a Drain-build vessel. On a normal build they are far less effective without the buffing from consoles, skills and the like.
Removing the persistant nature of them would go along way to solving the issue.
R.I.P
and holy christ, shield resistance is about 70% of any functioning defense, 20% being heal cycling, and about 10% being capacity/regeneration. resisting damage means that you didn't take damage that you now have to heal, escorts can be tanked all day if you have strong shield power resistance and at least epts1 and tss with rsp and distro doffs cycling.
I suggest the same thing for the Runabouts with tractor beam. Problem solved! As the abilities have resistances that seem too working properly.
... The resistances to Energy Drain aren't working.
How are all Cannon escorts not working? Because they actually do consistent high damage, instead of relying on Beam Overload/hull torp hits?
I didn't realize you were not a native speaker, so I'll cut you some slack.
I'll cover it again, but please go back and re-read my original post with more details.
The point of my response to that statement, which I encourage you to re-read, is that
Power Drain Build does not equal a Sci/Sci ship.
That's where the difference is.
A power drain build, while it does utilize Sci powers - gets the main bulk of its nastiness (and the focus of most rage threads) are the parts of the build that are not actually Sci powers.
Which is, specifically, items like Power Siphon Drones, Plasmonic Leech and Aceton Assimilators.
These are not Sci captain powers, and they are not linked nor specific to "Sci Ships" (which Carriers are somewhat similar but also not the same).
So what you see people complaining about as 1 issue is actually two issues:
1) Sci / Sci builds (and Sci Ships & Sci BOFF powers by extension) have been systematically reduced in effectiveness. People are not happy about the loss of their viability.
2) Power Drain Items that are divorced from actual Science Captains, Science Ships and Science BOFFs are generally overpowered, with few to zero counters and can be generated/spammed in a way that prevents dealing with them when you face them enmasse.
That's the point.
The other part of the problem is that you continue to assume that DPS escorts are "broken" when they quite clearly are not.
All resistances through consoles, powers & skills as well as all heals are all counters for raw DPS.
This is unarguable.
This is where it gets harder to cut you any slack, as I just posted in response to you how powers like plasmonic leech, power siphon and aceton assimilators are specifically NOT resisted the same way all other drains are.
4 Cannon Escorts are working as intended. There's no "hacks", "cheats", "exploits", or "broken mechanics" involved with them.
You put 4 DHCs on an Escort, do the calculations for damage vs distance and damage vs power drain, and you'll get exactly that output.
You do the calculations for power drain vs resistance, and you'll find that the result is NOT what it's supposed to be.
Power drains are broken, there's no arguing about it.
You obviously did not watch the video posted by the OP.
You can see throughout, the only drain he is suffering from is from Leech and Power Siphons. All of his power leves are dropped to 15 whether or not he uses Batteries, Emergency Powers to X or EPS. IT looks like he might be running MACO shields as well That means he is being drained by about 140+ power in each subsystem and that is pretty much all coming from what looks like 2 flights of Advanced power drones.
A fully Specced science ship running Tyken's 3, Energy Siphon and Target subsystems can't even get close to that level of drain if the target has no resistances to power drains let alone if they are specced for resistances.
You are the one who doesn't understand what this thread is about. This is not about legitimate Power drain builds that do not really on Power siphons, this is about Power siphons.
Power Siphons are not overpowered because you can kill a ship with them; they are overpowered because the drain is not resistible, the magnitude and the amount of times it stacks is so far out of line with all other power drain abilities in the game. Beam Target subsystems do not stack on the same system as it was deemed overpowered and out of line of the original intent of power drains. Yet here we have power siphons that can stack indefinitely to all subsystems and be maintained pretty much indefinitely, which makes them orders of magnitude more powerful than stacking Beam Target subsytems ever were. In case you didn't know, an Order of Magnitude generally means 10 times greater, and thus several means we're talking 100's or more times more effective. Stacking Target subsystems required multiple ships running Target subsystems powers of rank 2 or 3. A carrier can now do it more effectively all by itself.
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
I must agree. Being throw away forces, I expect them to not all be so persistant.
In response to the last post, The OP is also being hit by Phasers, subsystem targeting and possibly Polarons as well in that video, so its possible his drain was more than just Leech (which never capped) and the Siphon Drones.
This doesn't excuse Siphon drones from needing to be fixed in some form or fashion, it just shows that the drain in question was from more than just the boogeymen of the KDF drain choices.
R.I.P
They weren't meant to be resisted, though half as well as other drains.
There's no resisting Siphon Drones at all. Furthermore, all of the Siphon Drone counters are negated by the fact that the resistance is broken and the fact that the Drones can be spawned far faster than any of the counters can be cycled.
The Drones also drain far more than they should be. Unless, of course, you want to tell me that Drones that can be spawned every 9 seconds SHOULD be draining more than my 125 Aux, 5 Flow Capacitor-boosted Tyken's 3.
What he said!