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broken mechanics? - still or again

kingscorpio78kingscorpio78 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
edited September 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I realy liked playing against evil Klinguns. Kerrat, c&h or arena matches. It always made a lot of fun becaus most Klinguns are evil, skilled Fed-eating pilots.

But atm im realy dissapointed. Not because of the evil Klingons killing Feds. Its because of the broken mechanichs?.

My favorite is energydrain.
I just made a small vid to show why.

Its me in an Eng-cruiser in Kerrat. This toon got 9 points into Star Ship Powerinsulators, 9 points into Starship Electro-Plasma Systems. 2 EPS-consoles.

One of the evil Klinguns told me, he is fully specced 4 powerdrainabilities and using 4 additional sci-consoles to boost the powerdrain.

In fact he drops my powerlevels down to 14 points.

But hey, ther is a counter for everything. So i use batteries, 2xEPtS3 and 2xEPtW1, and im an engineer so i got the uber EPS-Powertransferskill! :eek:

But look at 1:48, powerlevels r down to 14/max. Im using shieldbattery - nothing happens:
1:48 shieldbattery

At 1:52 im using EPtS3 - still nothing happens.
1:52 EPtS3

At 2:33 im using uber EPS-Powertransfer - and nothing!
2:33 EPS-Powertransfer

At 2:09 i try to kill the syphons, using faw+ spread. but hey - not much happens.
shooting the siphons

full viedo

Cryptic, do u really think its working as intended and fun to play?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by kingscorpio78 on
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Comments

  • beary666stobeary666sto Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Power siphons are broken in that they do not take into account resists and they continually drain power, instead of a set amount. With the right set of DOffs, you can be spitting them out every 9 seconds. A rate that is impossible to keep up with and still be an effective ship for combat.


    Anyone claiming to be a skilled player by spamming siphons, leech and aceton assimilators and calling it a proper drain build is a joke.
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  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Lol, dont start this siphon debate again please. Had more warnings around it because of some idiot thinking he was PVP wonder woman!
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Haha.

    The Ole turret killer FTW. :)
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yeah a pure drain boats can suck. As can having no crew and being attacked by more than one opponent. Someone was also using Phasers on you as well as Target Subsystem attacks against you. I even saw a single Leech on you.

    The AAs need some fixing, thats for sure. Drain needs some tweaking, something they already know.

    How many of your attackers where running drain boats? Did anybody bring DPV/DPS?
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  • xxxhellspawnyxxxxxxhellspawnyxxx Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Polaron spam sucks

    Transphasic spam sucks

    Drain spam sucks

    Chroniton spam sucks

    Verdict: Spam sucks


    Oh, btw. the weapons stop firing bug is still around (had it in a match against Pascal and his friends yesterday). That sucks, too.
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously.

    Funny thing is, the same people who complain about power drain builds being "OP" also claim that sci/sci ships are not worth it... contradiction much.

    When the only viable option, is viable because it is BROKEN. Then yes sci ships are a joke Sophie.

    Carriers yes they are sci ships... sure. When people say sci ships are not working as they should be, I doubt they are thinking carriers... never the less carriers are also pretty much useless... unless you go massive spam x multiple carriers... or are willing to run stuff that is obviously broken.
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sophie you are so STO illiterate. lol

    Cannon Escorts... and any other form of escort work just fine....

    Ask yourself what is the intended counter to DMG..l (yes cannons are designed to be the highest dmg creating weapon so.... lets just say cannons)

    Emergency power to shields... Working as intended. (an likely way to good)
    Transfer Shield Strength... Working as intended.
    Tactical Team.... Working as intended... (again way to good)
    Sci Fleet... working as intended....
    Armour Resistance Consoles... working as intended....
    Polarized Hull... Working as intended....
    Hazard Emitters... Working as intended...
    Reverse Shield Polarity... Working as intended....
    Rotate Shield Freq... Working as intended....
    Defense Values... Working as intended....
    Evasive Manuvers.... Working as intended...
    Jam Sensors... Working as intended....
    Sub Nuke.... Working as intended...
    Target Weapons... Working as intended...
    Aceton Beam... Working as intended...
    VM... Working as intended...
    Oh of course I almost forgot the obnoxious Extend Shields.


    Now ask yourself .... do the passives in the skill tree work against power drains... Well ya some of them... but for some reason, not all. Do you really believe that is intended Sophie?

    We get it you don't like people that fly mean escorts, sorry my friend suck it up... there is nothing broken about cannons or escorts in general.... healing in this game is 2x better then dmg potential... The power drain mechanic, works in theory but its not applied to all drains properly... that is the issue sophie.
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Energy drain builds also work just fine. They are the one offensive sci ability that actually works. Why nerf it?

    And stop calling me that. Really.

    No one said Nerf Sophie....

    Nerf implies the drains should change. There fine... its the fact that the counter 100% does NOT work AT ALL. lol
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    You want to have stronger resists vs energy drains. With the end result being that energy drain builds will not be a viable option any more. That is called a nerf.

    I'd rather propose to reduce the effects of resistances vs other powers accordingly.

    Also, again, stop calling me that.

    Sophie... it wouldn't matter if they Tripled the effect of the resist vs siphen drones... cause

    3 x 0 = ZERO. :)
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I actually think the resistances work, but since some power drain abilities "tick" it just takes more time to reach the maximum effect. The cummulative effect is just too strong. Power siphons are prime example.

    SO imho resistances should cut the duration of tick based drains, instead the magnitude, or some sort of combination of both.
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  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously.

    Funny thing is, the same people who complain about power drain builds being "OP" also claim that sci/sci ships are not worth it... contradiction much.
    Drains are borked.

    but a more pressing issue just appeared, what is the counter to you?
  • mrtsheadmrtshead Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    We are not talking about the drones alone, but also about the boff ability energy drain. Resistances do seem to influence that, though not much, and I must say that that is actually the best approach: Even a fully-resistance-specced sci ship with 4 or 5 resistance consoles should not be immune against any offensive sci power, much like a fullly armor- and shield specced ship is not immune vs an all-cannon escort. You want defense against sci powers, make it by using boff abilities.

    That is a simple solution for the overall problem sci captains have right now.

    And stop calling me that.

    The problem is that right now, because resistances don't work the way they should against the siphon drones, they are able to virtually shut down a ship on their own. This ground has all been covered to death though, and I doubt you are ever going to be convinced that one carrier should not be able to neutralize one ship with it's bays while supporting teams with it's own powers. While I'm sure that sounds fun to the carrier captain, it makes the game suck for the non-carrier captains who are relegated to the sidelines.

    As for the broader suggestion of reducing resistances across the board to make sci more viable... eh... I think a better overall approach would be re-balancing sci powers so that they are less 'all or nothing' in design. Power drain is a great example of this - unless you stack a ton of it, it's pretty useless, but as soon as you cross a certain tipping point it suddenly becomes nearly unstoppable. There is no 'middle ground' where the Sci captain feels he/she is benefiting from draining the other ship with energy drain, and the drained ship captain feels like he/she is able to deal with the drain and keep fighting. With Sci powers as it, it seems like one or the other of the players is always going to feel 'cheated'.
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  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Hm, I am not sure if resistances are really the way it should work. I mean, we don't have a ship that is all shields and armor be not destroyed by a tac escort, so why should a ship that is all energy drain resistance be immune to energy drain?

    Instead, just add a counter, such as science team or engineering team.



    Isn't that a bit like saying the effects of damage should be reduced because it is all or nothing if you are destroyed?

    I mean, how is being shut down by energy drain different from being shot down by weapons fire?

    Wanna bet? I sleep through the best Escorts outputs in my Eng cruiser. Hell I can practically sleep through Escorts, in my Escorts. You are all but immune to damage in this game and that's rather sad.

    Skill Resistances, for a large portion of the tree either work too well or not at all, but Power Drain should still be resisted. What the value is, or isn't can be adjusted later. But it needs to have SOMETHING first in order to be able to tweak it.

    Also, frankly damage DOES have working counters. It's called EPTS, and shield healing. Power Drain... yeah vs siphon pods in particular you can crank Batteries, Emergency Power, EPS Power and your power levels will not budge for more than 2 seconds, tops. If the carrier is built correctly. AND he can spawn the drones as fast or faster than they can be killed.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Wait wait wait...

    How in the world are all Cannon Escorts "broken"?
  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited September 2012
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Wait wait wait...

    How in the world are all Cannon Escorts "broken"?

    Why because he isn't smart enough to run EPTS on his Tac Kitty Carrier in pvp of course.
  • teleon22teleon22 Member Posts: 424
    edited September 2012
    In my opinion subsystem power levels should never fall below 25 from a drain if the ship has 9 points into power insulators. The only time subsystem power should fall below 25 is when a subsystem is disabled from a Phaser PROC or from a subsystem target ability that disables the subsystem.

    At a power level of 25, your weapons are literally doing -50% base DPV/DPS. At a power level of 25, your ships shields are online but are not regenerating and their energy damage resistance is limited to whatever the shield damage resistance is on the tooltip display of the shield.

    That is just my own opinion.
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Hm, I am not sure if resistances are really the way it should work. I mean, we don't have a ship that is all shields and armor be not destroyed by a tac escort, so why should a ship that is all energy drain resistance be immune to energy drain?

    whut-whut?

    It's even possible to build an escort that can't be destroyed by another single escort. With sciships and cruisers, building a "stalemate-ship" is a walk in the park, AND allows for a flexible build that does more than just survive! I've been in C&H matches with 2 good heavy damage dealers working on a cruiser for 15 minutes without being able to bring him down!

    A ship prepared to take damage can shake off the damage attack from one ship quite easily. A ship specially built to resist drain can not shake off a carrier, short of staying permanently out of range, no matter how he builds or plays.
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously.

    Coming from the man that believes the only way to play is with the two dual cannons, a dual beam and some torpedos is laughable, thats not saying much Sophie. Have fun killing NPCs in Kirk's Lounge.
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  • teleon22teleon22 Member Posts: 424
    edited September 2012
    Why because he isn't smart enough to run EPTS on his Tac Kitty Carrier in pvp of course.

    Maybe he doesn't realize that damage resistance on shields stack up to 75% whereas all of those Tactical Damage buffs are reduced by 75% with little more than EPTS and high Shield Subsystem Power using MACO shields.

    @ Sophie: that means, if an Escort musters up 100,000k in potential damage? against hardened shields, he will only dish out 25,000 which if the Cruiser Captain is intelligent enough to have a single copy of Tactical Team results in: 10,000k x 4 shield facings = 40,000 - 25, 000 = 15,000 shields left on the Cruiser. Which, btw are regenerated and repaired with BOFF abilities faster than the Escort can muster up another 100,000k in damage? yet good escorts will do their worst in the 5second delay between Tactical Team up-time, however even then, a decent cruiser will have a minimum of 50% all damage resistances on his/her hull with at least Aux-SIF for a mild heal or fail.

    Now, not to brag, but it typically takes more than one escort to down my Cruiser when it is setup for PVP and not one of the cruisers is a SCI-TAC? because without sub-nuke? they simply can?t dish out enough damage before I can just move out of range or tractor beam repulse them out of range. Remember, cannon damage goes down rapidly past 5km.
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  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited September 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Without activating any counters at all? No, you cannot.



    Kind of my point. ;)

    Dude, those counters are so automatic it's not even funny. Those counters, also happen to be great heals in general. But I won't be able to explain this to someone that can't even bring himself to fly a Real ship for his tac, nor use EPTS.

    And no it isn't. You act as if siphon drones get countered by ANYTHING and they do not. Here's a vid chump of a Good Drain Carrier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2jVKaLNnqs

    Notice, all of the power adders do next to nothing. That ship? Had 2 power insulator consoles, and 6 ranks in PI as well.

    Working counters yeah right.

    In Real pvp that scenario is quite likely as the drones can be spawned faster than they can be killed, by AOE fire. "But warp plasma!" No, but not warp plasma. I know you can't kit your ship out for jack, so you don't realize just how quickly you can spawn drones because you won't use the doffs (that you can't afford!) not only that, but warp plasma hardly does anything for your allies when you yourself have been drained dry.
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