I have generally nothing against Husanaks suggestion. But I would put flow capacitors and particle gens as the top science skill abilities in the skill tree. At very least I would swap the position of sensors and flow caps.
Indeed as a longer term fix I agree with you... the skill tree is so crazy. Some resistances are so cheap you would be crazy not to spec them... and then some skills with pretty minor use require so many skill points to spec that you are crazy to even try. Others end up effecting so many skills its silly... really how the heck did flow caps end up in tier 1... in buffs everything the non sci ships care about for basicly free... its no wonder there is little need for sci ships. Why when every escort can run around with full points in there Tet Glider and Tetryon/polaron procs... there is no need for sci debuff when cannon scorts with all cannons and tetryon strip shields better then a full bore full aux CPB sci ship... and full cannon polaron ends up draining faster and harder then a dedicated power drain build. (well ok perhaps the drain is still better on a sci... but really throw polaron weapons on 2-3 members of a team and you don't need no target subs)
Generally, I think abilities that affect most stuff should be the top tier. Hence why I said flow capacitors and particle gens to the top.
I agree with sensors being the rank 1 ability, sensors are the most basic scientific system of starship. Shield systems should be engineering imho.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Add the tractor beams on escorts to the mix. Escorts have no need at all to tractor a ship. They already fly circles around them.
Well it does reduce defense which increases dmg... hey its even sillier on the pets.
Really there is no issue with escorts running tractor beams... it means they are giving up one of there 1 - 3 sci slots for an offensive skill instead of a defensive one.
Generally, I think abilities that affect most stuff should be the top tier. Hence why I said flow capacitors and particle gens to the top.
I agree with sensors being the rank 1 ability, sensors are the most basic scientific system of starship. Shield systems should be engineering imho.
they seem hard on for shields being a sci thing going forward. i understand, not everything can be engineering. rank 5 for those would be asking a lot, star ship weapons damage skills are still just rank 1 and 2 skills after all. thats why i put shield drain resistance and graviton at the top, that buffs all sci skill effect other then damage. thats basically a sci ship only needed skill, and the other is a seriously beneficial but expensive shield resist from things like glider and sci striping skills. something you can get from a rank 2 skill now and has made so many sci skills useless.
Add the tractor beams on escorts to the mix. Escorts have no need at all to tractor a ship. They already fly circles around them.
with tractor beams, its main purpose is to turns someone's defense score into nothing so you can hit them with every shot and crit the hell out of them. snares are an alpha strikers best friend, its why i carry TB and EWP on my fleet vorcha and ktinga. but if you had a sci ship or cruiser to tractor people for you reliably then you wouldn't necessarily need the skill on your ship.
I vote solution A. If a BoP captain wants to invest his Commander slot for a powerful ability, he should get a powerful ability. Anyone who has a problem with that can use the methods to decloak ships that are in the game.
I don't think you understand what I was getting at earlier... it would have helped if you played back when that was a popular build. A Bop running Shockwave 3 is NOT the issue. If a bop wants to use a commander skill fine.... the issue was (and why shockwave dmg was treated the way it was) is that if all versions base dmg was jumped... a bop would run Lt. Commander sci... and use the shockwave to stun there opponent out of cloak and there Rapid Fire 3 to remove them before the stun wore off... this is why there is stun immunity in the game... and why the dmg on shockwave 1 sucks... it was set to suck mode on purpose...
Well I generally don't like the idea that some space skills should only be viable with consoles. Consoles should be bonus, not the main source of potential. Hence why I would boost base dmg exponentialy through the ranks instead lineary.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I don't think you understand what I was getting at earlier... it would have helped if you played back when that was a popular build. A Bop running Shockwave 3 is NOT the issue. If a bop wants to use a commander skill fine.... the issue was (and why shockwave dmg was treated the way it was) is that if all versions base dmg was jumped... a bop would run Lt. Commander sci... and use the shockwave to stun there opponent out of cloak and there Rapid Fire 3 to remove them before the stun wore off... this is why there is stun immunity in the game... and why the dmg on shockwave 1 sucks... it was set to suck mode on purpose...
Anyway why am I responding to you again. lol
I remember that very well. But I can also see how it would look like with the Fleet Nova comming. It can mimick the old BoP behavior more or less.
Tactical Captain + Fleet Nova + BTSS3 + PSW3 + 4 particle consoles. 2 photonic doffs. You can repeat the combo every 30s, if the shield facing drops the target is dead.
I understand that the problem is much more complex, and in current state no solution is good. One way or another, some builds will be super effective, while other will be super sucky.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
That's a pretty dedicated build though... and it would still take some timing... and the staying alive for 29s part.... The old bop (at first at least) was easier really... you didn't have to do anything at all to get your shockwave to stun nice... it was shockwave 1... and everything else 100% tac go hard mode. I know what you are saying though. There are some advantages to the way you suggest fixing the issue... and it is likely the way they'll go if they do anything at all anyway.
I forgot to add that independently of what we decide here (A or B or something else) the Borticus "fix" itself has a bug.
It seems that he not only corrected the "multiplier", as reported in the release notes, but he also did a "ninja nerf" by setting a maximum bonus value you can get from particle generators.
With more than 3 particle generators consoles you don't get more damage.
If you think that for example a fleet DSSV has 5 science consoles, and you decide to use 5 particle generators to increase PSW damage, you simply can't.
But it's the same on every science vessel with 4 sci consoles.
That's wrong and must be corrected in any case.
Well I generally don't like the idea that some space skills should only be viable with consoles. Consoles should be bonus, not the main source of potential. Hence why I would boost base dmg exponentialy through the ranks instead lineary.
Problem is: PvP is all about burst damage.
Escorts and Bops have several ways to do that: mount 4 or 5 tac consoles, attack pattern omega3, dual heavy cannons, crf, and so on, and you get a damage spike of 6-7k per second for 10 seconds, repeatable after 20 secs (i'll not consider doffs in this).
Psw3 and Cpb3 were the only sci abilities able to deliver burst damage (cpb to shields, psw to unshielded hull) in a PvP match. Their effect was not as lethal as above but with a full sci oriented science vessel and captain you could drain 8-9k of shields or deliver 20k of hull damage, repeatable after 45 seconds.
A rapid calculation gives us 60-70k damage for escorts in 10 seconds and 30k of combined shield\hull damage for science vessels.
Do the same calculation over 3-4 seconds and you get perfect balance.
In that time a captain can fire a RSP to defend itself from an escort attack and an escort captain can fire <any heal here> to repair his shields\hull after science vessel attack (that will not fire anything really dangerous for other 45 seconds).
Here you get balance, with old values.
Now, add base damage instead of console multipliers to PSW and you see why that is unbalanced.
An escort\bop decide to mount PSW instead of a heal, but he will not need that heal, because he will be able to oneshot his opponent.
That's why it was working with a multiplier.
However, we are voting and if majority is for option A I will respect that.
Problem is: PvP is all about burst damage.
Escorts and Bops have several ways to do that: mount 4 or 5 tac consoles, attack pattern omega3, dual heavy cannons, crf, and so on, and you get a damage spike of 6-7k per second for 10 seconds, repeatable after 20 secs (i'll not consider doffs in this).
Psw3 and Cpb3 were the only sci abilities able to deliver burst damage (cpb to shields, psw to unshielded hull) in a PvP match. Their effect was not as lethal as above but with a full sci oriented science vessel and captain you could drain 8-9k of shields or deliver 20k of hull damage, repeatable after 45 seconds.
A rapid calculation gives us 60-70k damage for escorts in 10 seconds and 30k of combined shield\hull damage for science vessels.
Do the same calculation over 3-4 seconds and you get perfect balance.
In that time a captain can fire a RSP to defend itself from an escort attack and an escort captain can fire <any heal here> to repair his shields\hull after science vessel attack (that will not fire anything really dangerous for other 45 seconds).
Here you get balance, with old values.
Now, add base damage instead of console multipliers to PSW and you see why that is unbalanced.
An escort\bop decide to mount PSW instead of a heal, but he will not need that heal, because he will be able to oneshot his opponent.
That's why it was working with a multiplier.
However, we are voting and if majority is for option A I will respect that.
I understand your point and it's all valid. But my experience with STO and Cryptic tells me, changes should be made so, its very hard to break them in the future. As I said, that *2 change of course would work, but I'm afraid of the situation in "future", when this would be forgotten, and something increases the +skills on sci consoles for whaever reasons. Now that would make the skills reach astronomical hights.
Generally, I would prefer that:
cmd. sci ability is much better that lt.cmd one
consoles are bonuses, not mandatory stuff needed to something be viable
avoid one shoting iWin builds
I do not care how it will be achieved, but that's reasonable bounderies on what should be achieved.
P.S. the bug is interesting, and should be fixed asap. Maybe thats the reason for TRIBBLE dmg.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I forgot to add that independently of what we decide here (A or B or something else) the Borticus "fix" itself has a bug.
It seems that he not only corrected the "multiplier", as reported in the release notes, but he also did a "ninja nerf" by setting a maximum bonus value you can get from particle generators.
With more than 3 particle generators consoles you don't get more damage.
If you think that for example a fleet DSSV has 5 science consoles, and you decide to use 5 particle generators to increase PSW damage, you simply can't.
But it's the same on every science vessel with 4 sci consoles.
That's wrong and must be corrected in any case.
I was responding to the argument that dalnar's solution would somehow empower the BoP's more than it should, which I do not agree with.
So again, you did not really get what my post was about, yet decided to condescendingly comment on it. Not smart.
But you didn't say anything of the sort... you said Commander, implying that a BoP would dedicate its build heavily into PSW so it's quite balanced, which is the complete opposite of what "Solution A" would perform. Assuming the stun would bump up in its base scaling along with the damage, then your neat und tidy graph would give BoPs access to a strong version of PSW1 again. That's the exact opposite of what you claim you were saying.
I want to try to see if we can find universal consensum on an hybrid solution.
PSW base damage
1) 2.000
2) 4.000
3) 8.000
That would be the damage with zero skill points in particle generators and zero particle generators consoles.
Each point in particle generators could give you an additional 60 damage, so for example a purple MK XII console will give 60*30=1.800 aditional damage.
In this way:
An escort with zero points on PRTG will deliver 2.000 damage with PSW1.
An escort with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 5.000 damage with PSW1.
An escort with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 8.000 damage with PSW1.
A sci with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 11.600 damage with PSW1 and 17.600 damage with PSW3.
Same for CPB, but with different values
CPB base shield damage (at 100 auxiliary power)
1) 1.000
2) 2.000
3) 4.000
Each point in particle generators could give you an additional 30 shield damage, so for example a purple MK XII console will give 30*30=900 aditional damage.
In this way:
A ship with zero points on PRTG will deliver 1.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 2.500 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 4.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 5.800 shield damage with CPB1, 6.800 damage with CPB2 and 8.800 damage with CPB3.
Honestly, I think that Cryptic is perfectly capable of doing this themselves, if they are willing to.
No, they are not.
Proof: they are asking (in this very same thread) "do you feel that these powers are flat-out ineffective. (PvE and PvP)?"
The have no idea of what they did to science powers in the last year, and they have no idea of balance issues in fixing the problem in the wrong way.
Let's help them to understand.
I want to try to see if we can find universal consensum on an hybrid solution.
PSW base damage
1) 2.000
2) 4.000
3) 8.000
That would be the damage with zero skill points in particle generators and zero particle generators consoles.
Each point in particle generators could give you an additional 60 damage, so for example a purple MK XII console will give 60*30=1.800 aditional damage.
In this way:
An escort with zero points on PRTG will deliver 2.000 damage with PSW1.
An escort with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 5.000 damage with PSW1.
An escort with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 8.000 damage with PSW1.
A sci with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 11.600 damage with PSW1 and 17.600 damage with PSW3.
Same for CPB, but with different values
CPB base shield damage (at 100 auxiliary power)
1) 1.000
2) 2.000
3) 4.000
Each point in particle generators could give you an additional 30 shield damage, so for example a purple MK XII console will give 30*30=900 aditional damage.
In this way:
A ship with zero points on PRTG will deliver 1.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 2.500 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 4.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 5.800 shield damage with CPB1, 6.800 damage with CPB2 and 8.800 damage with CPB3.
What do you think?
Good intentions, but actually does the opposite of what I think you're actually trying for. Have the base damage double each time is good for giving increasing returns for running the higher tier power. The part where this scheme falls apart it how skill points are affecting the powers.
In this system, skills points = increased damage on a linear scale. What this ends up doing is actually making the higher tier BOff power less skill point efficient. For example:
CBP1 with 0 PRTG at 100 aux = 1000 shield damage
CBP1 with 100 PRTG at 100 aux = 4000 shield damage
100 points in PRTG increases CBP1 damage by 300% (or 400% of normal)
CBP3 with 0 PRTG at 100 aux = 4000 shield damage
CBP3 with 100 PRTG at 100 aux = 7000 shield damage
100 points in PRTG increases CBP3 damage by 75% (or 175% of normal)
This scheme gives more bang for you buck with lower tier BOff skills. To maintain the increased return on running higher tier BOff skills, you will need to have the science skill points result in relative increases in the effectiveness of BOff skills. For example, each point in PRTG increases the power effectiveness by 1%. So we have:
A ship with zero points on PRTG will deliver 1.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 1.500 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 2.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 2.600 shield damage with CPB1, 5.200 damage with CPB2 and 10.400 damage with CPB3.
In this scheme, CPB3 will always be 4x more effective than a CBP1 with the same skills. Husanak was suggesting however to make the 3 tier powers more rewarding we might not want one tier simply being twice as good as the previous one. We may actually want say CPB2 to be 2x better than CBP1 and CBP3 to be 4 times better that CPB2 when fully skilled. But if you're not skilled into PRTG CBP3 may actually only be 2 times as effective as CPB2. This could be done if points in PRTG provided a bigger bonus to CBP3 than CBP2. This of course makes things a little more complicated when it comes to tweaking base damage numbers and how powers are affected by skill points.
So you could have some thing like this:
1 point in PRTG gives:
1% bonus to CPB1
2% bonus to CPB2
4% bonus to CPB3
We can vary base damages a lot less now and skill get nice separation when fully skilled. We'll say 100 aux in this example and base damage numbers like so:
CPB1 1000
CPB2 1500
CPB3 2000
Now the tricky part in balancing this is to determine what are appropriate multipliers for different tier BOff skills and in the case for Science skills, what are appropriate multipliers for how different skills affect the same power. For example PSW, perhaps Stun duration should increase with a certain multiplier for Decompiliers while damage increases due to PRTG would use a different multiplier.
Join Date: Sep 2009
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
Good intentions, but actually does the opposite of what I think you're actually trying for. Have the base damage double each time is good for giving increasing returns for running the higher tier power. The part where this scheme falls apart it how skill points are affecting the powers.
In this system, skills points = increased damage on a linear scale. What this ends up doing is actually making the higher tier BOff power less skill point efficient. For example:
Oh, btw I totally agree with you, this was also my idea (solution B, see post 207) and it was how it worked before new skill tree for CPB and last nerf from Borticus for PSW.
But, we have different opinions on this site.
Specifically, Dalnar and Logimo are more for a base damage increase, while me, Husanak, ghostyandfrosty and now you are more in favour of a non linear bonus coming from skill points and consoles, as it was before.
What i'm trying here is to find an unanimous consensus making a compromise between the two solutions suggested, hoping that this can speed-up the resolution time from Cryptic.
If it's not possible to find a good compromise, we will tell Borticus what the majority of us has decided.
Oh my frakking gods of Egypt. Shimmerless, read what I responded to. :rolleyes:
Read it yourself and keep the rolleyes to yourself you condescending douche... Solution B would give BoPs a strong Commander ability, A would give them back the Lt. Com. stopgap. Learn to read before running your mouth off.
Le'ts don't forget that you cannot chain PSW already like before, so there is no reason why lt.cmd power should not do dmg. The thing is, I do not think there can be some sort of compromise, it's a choice between two lesser devils.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
Indeed as a longer term fix I agree with you... the skill tree is so crazy. Some resistances are so cheap you would be crazy not to spec them... and then some skills with pretty minor use require so many skill points to spec that you are crazy to even try. Others end up effecting so many skills its silly... really how the heck did flow caps end up in tier 1... in buffs everything the non sci ships care about for basicly free... its no wonder there is little need for sci ships. Why when every escort can run around with full points in there Tet Glider and Tetryon/polaron procs... there is no need for sci debuff when cannon scorts with all cannons and tetryon strip shields better then a full bore full aux CPB sci ship... and full cannon polaron ends up draining faster and harder then a dedicated power drain build. (well ok perhaps the drain is still better on a sci... but really throw polaron weapons on 2-3 members of a team and you don't need no target subs)
The skill tree balance is terrible, honestly.
yep. what do you think of my proposed version of the science skill tree?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=359201
Generally, I think abilities that affect most stuff should be the top tier. Hence why I said flow capacitors and particle gens to the top.
I agree with sensors being the rank 1 ability, sensors are the most basic scientific system of starship. Shield systems should be engineering imho.
Well it does reduce defense which increases dmg... hey its even sillier on the pets.
Really there is no issue with escorts running tractor beams... it means they are giving up one of there 1 - 3 sci slots for an offensive skill instead of a defensive one.
they seem hard on for shields being a sci thing going forward. i understand, not everything can be engineering. rank 5 for those would be asking a lot, star ship weapons damage skills are still just rank 1 and 2 skills after all. thats why i put shield drain resistance and graviton at the top, that buffs all sci skill effect other then damage. thats basically a sci ship only needed skill, and the other is a seriously beneficial but expensive shield resist from things like glider and sci striping skills. something you can get from a rank 2 skill now and has made so many sci skills useless.
with tractor beams, its main purpose is to turns someone's defense score into nothing so you can hit them with every shot and crit the hell out of them. snares are an alpha strikers best friend, its why i carry TB and EWP on my fleet vorcha and ktinga. but if you had a sci ship or cruiser to tractor people for you reliably then you wouldn't necessarily need the skill on your ship.
I don't think you understand what I was getting at earlier... it would have helped if you played back when that was a popular build. A Bop running Shockwave 3 is NOT the issue. If a bop wants to use a commander skill fine.... the issue was (and why shockwave dmg was treated the way it was) is that if all versions base dmg was jumped... a bop would run Lt. Commander sci... and use the shockwave to stun there opponent out of cloak and there Rapid Fire 3 to remove them before the stun wore off... this is why there is stun immunity in the game... and why the dmg on shockwave 1 sucks... it was set to suck mode on purpose...
Anyway why am I responding to you again. lol
I remember that very well. But I can also see how it would look like with the Fleet Nova comming. It can mimick the old BoP behavior more or less.
Tactical Captain + Fleet Nova + BTSS3 + PSW3 + 4 particle consoles. 2 photonic doffs. You can repeat the combo every 30s, if the shield facing drops the target is dead.
I understand that the problem is much more complex, and in current state no solution is good. One way or another, some builds will be super effective, while other will be super sucky.
It seems that he not only corrected the "multiplier", as reported in the release notes, but he also did a "ninja nerf" by setting a maximum bonus value you can get from particle generators.
With more than 3 particle generators consoles you don't get more damage.
If you think that for example a fleet DSSV has 5 science consoles, and you decide to use 5 particle generators to increase PSW damage, you simply can't.
But it's the same on every science vessel with 4 sci consoles.
That's wrong and must be corrected in any case.
Problem is: PvP is all about burst damage.
Escorts and Bops have several ways to do that: mount 4 or 5 tac consoles, attack pattern omega3, dual heavy cannons, crf, and so on, and you get a damage spike of 6-7k per second for 10 seconds, repeatable after 20 secs (i'll not consider doffs in this).
Psw3 and Cpb3 were the only sci abilities able to deliver burst damage (cpb to shields, psw to unshielded hull) in a PvP match. Their effect was not as lethal as above but with a full sci oriented science vessel and captain you could drain 8-9k of shields or deliver 20k of hull damage, repeatable after 45 seconds.
A rapid calculation gives us 60-70k damage for escorts in 10 seconds and 30k of combined shield\hull damage for science vessels.
Do the same calculation over 3-4 seconds and you get perfect balance.
In that time a captain can fire a RSP to defend itself from an escort attack and an escort captain can fire <any heal here> to repair his shields\hull after science vessel attack (that will not fire anything really dangerous for other 45 seconds).
Here you get balance, with old values.
Now, add base damage instead of console multipliers to PSW and you see why that is unbalanced.
An escort\bop decide to mount PSW instead of a heal, but he will not need that heal, because he will be able to oneshot his opponent.
That's why it was working with a multiplier.
However, we are voting and if majority is for option A I will respect that.
Both. 5600 maximum damage from tooltip.
You can't get an higher value in combat, without a sensor scan 3 (or some attack pattern i guess).
I understand your point and it's all valid. But my experience with STO and Cryptic tells me, changes should be made so, its very hard to break them in the future. As I said, that *2 change of course would work, but I'm afraid of the situation in "future", when this would be forgotten, and something increases the +skills on sci consoles for whaever reasons. Now that would make the skills reach astronomical hights.
Generally, I would prefer that:
I do not care how it will be achieved, but that's reasonable bounderies on what should be achieved.
P.S. the bug is interesting, and should be fixed asap. Maybe thats the reason for TRIBBLE dmg.
He Did What?
/faceroller dev is faceroller.
But you didn't say anything of the sort... you said Commander, implying that a BoP would dedicate its build heavily into PSW so it's quite balanced, which is the complete opposite of what "Solution A" would perform. Assuming the stun would bump up in its base scaling along with the damage, then your neat und tidy graph would give BoPs access to a strong version of PSW1 again. That's the exact opposite of what you claim you were saying.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
PSW base damage
1) 2.000
2) 4.000
3) 8.000
That would be the damage with zero skill points in particle generators and zero particle generators consoles.
Each point in particle generators could give you an additional 60 damage, so for example a purple MK XII console will give 60*30=1.800 aditional damage.
In this way:
An escort with zero points on PRTG will deliver 2.000 damage with PSW1.
An escort with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 5.000 damage with PSW1.
An escort with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 8.000 damage with PSW1.
A sci with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 11.600 damage with PSW1 and 17.600 damage with PSW3.
Same for CPB, but with different values
CPB base shield damage (at 100 auxiliary power)
1) 1.000
2) 2.000
3) 4.000
Each point in particle generators could give you an additional 30 shield damage, so for example a purple MK XII console will give 30*30=900 aditional damage.
In this way:
A ship with zero points on PRTG will deliver 1.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 2.500 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 4.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 5.800 shield damage with CPB1, 6.800 damage with CPB2 and 8.800 damage with CPB3.
What do you think?
Now THAT'S two words I thought I'd never see used about Cryptic again...
(Except maybe in the statement "If Cryptic were capable of taking your last $, they would be more than willing!"
If Cryptic were capable of sucking the last breath out of your mouth they would be willing.
No, they are not.
Proof: they are asking (in this very same thread) "do you feel that these powers are flat-out ineffective. (PvE and PvP)?"
The have no idea of what they did to science powers in the last year, and they have no idea of balance issues in fixing the problem in the wrong way.
Let's help them to understand.
Good intentions, but actually does the opposite of what I think you're actually trying for. Have the base damage double each time is good for giving increasing returns for running the higher tier power. The part where this scheme falls apart it how skill points are affecting the powers.
In this system, skills points = increased damage on a linear scale. What this ends up doing is actually making the higher tier BOff power less skill point efficient. For example:
CBP1 with 0 PRTG at 100 aux = 1000 shield damage
CBP1 with 100 PRTG at 100 aux = 4000 shield damage
100 points in PRTG increases CBP1 damage by 300% (or 400% of normal)
CBP3 with 0 PRTG at 100 aux = 4000 shield damage
CBP3 with 100 PRTG at 100 aux = 7000 shield damage
100 points in PRTG increases CBP3 damage by 75% (or 175% of normal)
This scheme gives more bang for you buck with lower tier BOff skills. To maintain the increased return on running higher tier BOff skills, you will need to have the science skill points result in relative increases in the effectiveness of BOff skills. For example, each point in PRTG increases the power effectiveness by 1%. So we have:
A ship with zero points on PRTG will deliver 1.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 50 points on PRTG will deliver 1.500 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG will deliver 2.000 shield damage with CPB1 at 100 aux.
A ship with 100 points on PRTG and 2 purple mk xii consoles will deliver 2.600 shield damage with CPB1, 5.200 damage with CPB2 and 10.400 damage with CPB3.
In this scheme, CPB3 will always be 4x more effective than a CBP1 with the same skills. Husanak was suggesting however to make the 3 tier powers more rewarding we might not want one tier simply being twice as good as the previous one. We may actually want say CPB2 to be 2x better than CBP1 and CBP3 to be 4 times better that CPB2 when fully skilled. But if you're not skilled into PRTG CBP3 may actually only be 2 times as effective as CPB2. This could be done if points in PRTG provided a bigger bonus to CBP3 than CBP2. This of course makes things a little more complicated when it comes to tweaking base damage numbers and how powers are affected by skill points.
So you could have some thing like this:
1 point in PRTG gives:
1% bonus to CPB1
2% bonus to CPB2
4% bonus to CPB3
We can vary base damages a lot less now and skill get nice separation when fully skilled. We'll say 100 aux in this example and base damage numbers like so:
CPB1 1000
CPB2 1500
CPB3 2000
Adding skill points
0/50/100 in PRTG
CPB1 1000/1500/2000
CPB2 1500/3000/4500
CPB3 2000/6000/10000
Now the tricky part in balancing this is to determine what are appropriate multipliers for different tier BOff skills and in the case for Science skills, what are appropriate multipliers for how different skills affect the same power. For example PSW, perhaps Stun duration should increase with a certain multiplier for Decompiliers while damage increases due to PRTG would use a different multiplier.
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
Oh, btw I totally agree with you, this was also my idea (solution B, see post 207) and it was how it worked before new skill tree for CPB and last nerf from Borticus for PSW.
But, we have different opinions on this site.
Specifically, Dalnar and Logimo are more for a base damage increase, while me, Husanak, ghostyandfrosty and now you are more in favour of a non linear bonus coming from skill points and consoles, as it was before.
What i'm trying here is to find an unanimous consensus making a compromise between the two solutions suggested, hoping that this can speed-up the resolution time from Cryptic.
If it's not possible to find a good compromise, we will tell Borticus what the majority of us has decided.
Read it yourself and keep the rolleyes to yourself you condescending douche... Solution B would give BoPs a strong Commander ability, A would give them back the Lt. Com. stopgap. Learn to read before running your mouth off.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples