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Are small fleets doomed?
darramouss1
Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
I just had a look at the wiki page for season 6. It seems that all dilithium prices and number of missions needed to upgrade a starbase are fixed, regardless of the fleet's size.
Can this be confirmed? Is this a push to eliminate the smaller fleets in favour of super fleets?
I'm really hoping that any costs, be they dilithium of effort costs are scaled to match the fleet member number. To my way of thinking it's the only way to promote fairness amongst the fleets.
Can this be confirmed? Is this a push to eliminate the smaller fleets in favour of super fleets?
I'm really hoping that any costs, be they dilithium of effort costs are scaled to match the fleet member number. To my way of thinking it's the only way to promote fairness amongst the fleets.
Post edited by darramouss1 on
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That said, "Super" fleets (ie. 100+ active members) will have an alternative problem that not everyone will be able to get their contributions in and get Fleet Credits before the requirements for the mission are filled, so you might have players who are less active or aren't on at the correct time of day feeling left out.
IIRC, one of the Devs, I think it was Heretic before he left, said they've been set up with an ideal size of between 20 and 50 members in mind. We probably won't know for sure until it hits live.
if you mean will small fleets struggle to get tier 4 and 5 bases anytime soon then yes, they probably will unless all the members happen to be very dedicated. you really dont need 500 active players to get a good construction speed. 20 or 30 people who play often will be enough.
personally i have no issue with the set up. i firmly believe large fleets of 500 people should have a significant advantage of a fleet of 5 if people are all pulling their weight. small fleets can still get a base, play the missions and strive towards rewards, it will just be harder and take them longer.
its not really about just giving every fleet a tier 5 base just for being in a fleet and just for the sake of it. getting something sooner by having a greater pool of resources is the advantage of large fleets. there seems less of a point to having these massive fleets of hundreds of people working together if there is no real gain and 5 guys in a tiny fleet are matching your construction speed.
there are advantages to being in a small fleet as well. its not all roses and unicorns for the large fleets. those players will find it significantly harder to contribute before someone else beats you to it or uses all the provisions.
Ditto. Someone used the number of 25 as an average fleet size. They also used that number when discussing not raising the fleet size cap.
depends on your definition of small.
fleets of 10 or fewer, no not really, but it will take you quite a bit longer to make some of the tiers on starbases.
Fleets of 15-20, eh not so much they will find it manageable but will lag behind a touch.
The star bases are set to to target size for 25-45 active players. Those with more then that will be hampered by construction timers while fleets of the target size will find they can always be ready for construction timer to be done and ready to input all the next new things to begin the next set of advancements.
over 100+ folks, this is where fleet politics, or true corp politics will come into play. It is a EvE like move, but it will add some player base drama to the game, not that it really needs it.
It will show poorly run fleets vs fairly run fleets very quickly too. those with poor leadership will fold and loose members quickly to fairer handed fleets. So expect some changes to many fleets.
My Wife and I are looking around now to get into a good size fleet around the 20-30 size mark and begin contributing in building of star bases....
Course we might take our private fleet on the fed side and just start adding folks to it.
On the Klingon side I know she (Vith) is looking for a good house to join. The last group she was with, while good RP'rs, were not interested in advancing or preparing for the upcoming fleet. Due to this she moved on from them and is looking for a KDF House to call home too.
(warning this is opinion based on assessment of data only)
One man fleets (single player single character) will struggle to build at any sort of decent speed
Alt Fleets (single player multiple characters) Will build at a steady pace and will before long have excess resources available to pass out to the fleetless (join , buy the ship, leave)
Micro Fleets (less than 10) will build at a steady pace and will again have excess resources to pass out
Small fleets (11-30) will become the norm and build at the projected rate
Medium fleets (31-50)will build at the projected rate and will also suffer less from politics than the big boys
Large fleets (sub divided)
Rp fleets will settle things easily and will probably share resources fairly
PVE Fleets will either fall to internal politics and split or will have to reorganise (elected leaders)
PVP fleets and mauler fleets are basically pirates it will be every man for himself
Stupidly large fleets (anything over 250) will split into sub fleets or fall to infighting
That post actually makes sense. Keep up the good work!
However, I see little difference between the first two entries (I think both will build at a modest, but acceptable rate), and everything past Medium is somewhat questionable. :cool:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
thats the difference
and the bigger fleets are already infighting sad but true
look at the several "house of (insert word) orion women"
theres at least
"beautiful" "exiled" "scanky" "Dominant" and "Bald"
all off shoots or spoofs of each other and all it seems enemies now
Hmmm, I suppose you have a point. However it only applies under the assumption that the player will bother to max his refining on more than one character, which I've been trying to get myself to do, but repeatedly failed to get myself going. As for the second point, I have yet to see such infighting, and have no idea what KDF Houses you're referring to.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
it went global on the forum and strongly resembled a civil war
since then there are many such houses and they all hate each other
(so it appears)
of course the funny thing is almost all Orion women are GUYS
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
This relies on a false assumption, that every player and/or fleet should have a starbase.
Starbases are absolutely not required to play STO, to advance in STO, or to enjoy STO.
Fleet-less players, very small fleets, and RPers and PvP players/fleets (who don't farm much and so cannot build a starbase in a reasonable time compared to non-RP PvE fleets) will not have access to the perks of a fleet starbase.
But if such players and fleets enjoy being fleet-less, very small, RPing, or PvPing, lacking a starbase should not affect their overall gameplay. The perks are not so uber, and comparable versions of any new fleet-purchasable gear can be obtained in other ways, such as on the Exchange or by running STFs only.
So let the medium and large fleets slave away and throw in (or throw away) all their resources and time to build their starbases. The rest of the STO community will be fine.
LAUREN RULZ !!!!!!!!
Looking at just the tier 1 starbases and what is required, that's a good idea.
Really, makes it sound like unless you are relentless in getting into every fleet project, you get nothing. At least, that's what I'm getting.
I will get Everything I work for
and for me that means Galaxy class ships
and new shields
and a completely secure base with not one single half naked orion
My biggest beef with this is that fleets will be getting better and enhanced gear. I don't think it's right that though of us who don't want to be in a fleet are being put out in the cold with this. It's like they are trying to subtly force people into joining a fleet or something.
We are being told "The next tier of ships/next group of +1 ships are only for those who are in fleets, and can put plenty of time and effort into the fleet." (as I take it)
While sure, it's nice to have a solid, workable goal *cough*(unlike mk XII STF outfits)*cough*, for me it's coming across as an "all or nothing" deal.
There will be T8 ships available only to people who have lvl 75 characters
or there will be t10 ships in the z store
but you want a fleet ship
well once bases are the right size a lot of alt fleets will be taking "1 day" members
join take a ship and leave
no worries
Which makes me wonder what happens when the starbase is fully upgraded (cause then the projects would stop right?)
From what I saw currently on Tribble, there will be new ground weapons and gear available to fleet members in fleet stores after leveling up a fleet starbase to at least Military Tier 1.
However, from what I saw, the new fleet ground weapons and gear are comparable to the new STF weapons gear, and not much of an improvement over the currently craftable weapons and gear.
Note: I did not say the "same" weapons and gear, but definitely comparable in stats.
As I said in my earlier post, it looks like those who do not or cannot have advanced fleet starbases can get comparable weapons and gear from other sources, such as STFs and crafting.
And players can solo STFs or do their own crafting with less resources than buliding fleet starbases.
LAUREN RULZ !!!!!!!!
Yeah, that is a valid point.
I heard fleet members chatting as to how to be fair to all fleet members, to permit each to contribute to fleet projects in order to get a share of the fleet credits, so that they can obtain the new fleet gear and ships when the starbase is advanced or even completed.
No, there will be fleet provisioning projects afterwards.
At every stage of the construction of the fleet starbase, there will be a regular need to re-provision the starbase; that is, as some members buy from the fleet vendors, others can re-stock the fleet vendor inventories by contributing to fleet provisioning projects, and thus earn their fleet credits to buy from the fleet vendors.
LAUREN RULZ !!!!!!!!
Unloading a cargo bay of stuff to the starbase quartermaster, to turn around and buy something out of that pile :P.
Are the 'fleet ground weapons' unique models, or just generic phasers/disruptors but with shiny stats?
Unique models. I got a Mark 12 antiproton split beam rifle in the fleet vendor on Tribble, with better stats than my old Mark 11 antiproton split beam rifle.
However, there were different types of weapons (sniper rifles, pulse weapons, pistols, etc.) of different energy types (tetryon, plasma, etc.).
They were all Mark 12, if I recall. And even though they said they were Fleet ground weapons, they are NOT limited to use in fleet starbase actions. On Tribble, I brought in my new Mark 12 ground weapon into a ground mission in Delta Volanis to test it out and, yep, it worked.
However, some fleet weapons and consummables are limited to fleet starbase activities, such as fleet turrets to defend the starbase.
Just a note: I don't recall seeing weapons below Mark 12, so perhaps low ranked fleet members can only get their Mark 5 or Mark 8 gear outside the fleet starbase.
If I recall, some Dev on the forums mentioned that the fleet starbase vendors and ships are for max-level characters, but I'm sure low rank fleet members can still contribute to get and save their fleet credits for when they hit level cap and so they can use the Mark 12 gear and ships.
LAUREN RULZ !!!!!!!!
Considering how fast one can reach the level cap via the Duty Officer system, they probably figure most Fleet members will be at the cap in short order.
I'm thankful that they made missions scale to level so that we don't outlevel them while we do Doff missions.:)
... Unique MODELS, not STATS.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.