... I wonder what a "mirandized" Sovvie would look like...
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Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
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Canon, non-canon arguments are moot. The basic thing is, this is a F2P game that needs to make money. People have time and time again said they would spend money on this ship. Cryptic and CBS must not like money, because they are losing it for not putting atleast the TMP connie at T5. No t-1..ok...its universal...but to not include the t2 connie as well is ridiculous. I mean the stargazer is t5 and that is basically made of the same components as the connie.
This is not Star Trek then, nor should Cryptic/PWE be allowed to touch Trek. F2P argue is no excuse to just TRIBBLE up one of the better franchises in history. I think all the arguement for the connie is just silly. Why is there still all the commotion for a ship that was taken out of service..and then alter on we got a higher teir 2409 version anyway.
STO needs to stop putting out of era ships. This game was advertised for '2409' ....it needs to stay 2409+
... I wonder what a "mirandized" Sovvie would look like...
Feels a bit to me like the Luna-class is to the Sovereign-class what the Nebula-class is to the Galaxy-class and Miranda-class is to the Constitution-class from a design standpoint.
Actually, the USS Olympia's wreckage from DS9 The Sound of Her Voice reused the USS Enterprise's wreckage, so the Olympia could be a Constitution-Refit contender. The Olympia left UFP space in 2363 and crashed in 2371.
Would seem stupid for them not to upgrade the Exeter to T5.
All you Miranda lovers are ridiculous. Its going to be softer than an egg even if T5 retrofitted. You'll get out into battle and blow up 5 times more than the rest of us, then go grab your proper ships.
Personally, Im not too keen on getting into starbase defense battles with squishy ships.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
This is not Star Trek then, nor should Cryptic/PWE be allowed to touch Trek. F2P argue is no excuse to just TRIBBLE up one of the better franchises in history.
Well put.
I'm tired of hearing "they gotta make money, they gotta make money, they gotta make money" because it's a bogus argument. A well-thought-out game can make plenty of money on what may be the largest and longest lived franchise in history...If you can't make money on Star Trek, then you are doing it wrong.
There are restaurants that serve star trek breakfasts for petes sakes. Stay with the Star Trek formula, and the rest will take care of itself. You can't just take a cookie-cutter Asian MMO and stick a Star Trek sticker on it.
PWE, give us real Star Trek and we will give you money.
you all need to log into tribble and see for yourself. the miranda is there but its still tier 1. it has enhanced stats for some reason though, it has the same hitpoints as the tier 2 connie refit, a 1.1 shield mod, 2/2 weapons but still just 3 ens stations. so strangely enough its better then the c store tier 1 ships.
There's also no Fleet version of the T-2 cruiser. So both are no goes.
Well, looks like I have no motivation to play season 6 AND no motivation to buy the Exeter to make an Exeter/Excalibur kitbash. Lose-lose for Cryptic.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I doubt that, since they already have the ability to exclude skins. See: Any ship variant from the C-Store.
Exactly. And they never bothered to tell us what CBS has to say to the Excalibur, Vesper and Exeter. It's always the same reply, that CBS doesn't want an endgame Constitution, even if that isn't the question anymore.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
The Original Series Enterprise (no bloody A, B, C, or D) and the Motion Picture Enterprise, most commonly referred to as the 1701-A are both the same class.
Um, this is incorrect.
TOS - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 - Starship Class (named so by the dedication plaque on the bridge next to turbolift in the TOS series.. aka on screen canon. TOS ships were classified after Duty and not first of line.. Also Constitution was not First of line, the first hull registry for the hull design was the U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1017, followed by the U.S.S. Intrepid NCC-1631, then the U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1657, then the U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1664, then the U.S.S. Exeter NCC 1672 .. all of which had onscreen appearance.. there was also the U.S.S. Farragut NCC-1647, Kirk's first Starship assignment, but was not shown onscreen).
TMP / TWOK / TSFS - U.S.S Enterprise NCC-1701 (Refit) - Enterprise Class - Dedication plaque shown on the U.S.S. Enterprise simulator at the beginning of TWOK, This again is on screen canon.. Even Scotty and Decker stated that she was a completely new ship save some of the super-structure.
TVH / TFF / TUD - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-A (renamed starship that was newly built) - Constitution Class - The hull class was shown for this particual vessel at the top of the blueprints of the NCC-1701-A in TFF while Scotty was studying them.
I wish people would remember that Gene Roddenberry stated Canon is what is seen on screen and not what is in a book or a fandom creation. Calling the TOS Enterprise a Connie is a fandom naming of the ship, Calling the TMP Enterprise from TMP, TWOK and TSFS a Connie is also a fandom naming.... TOS set the CANON that the ship is "Starship Class" due to the Dedication plaque onthe bridge for 3 seasons, starting from "The Cage". TMP, TWOK and TSFS set canon with the dedication plaque on the Enterprise Simulator, naming the ship "Enterprise Class". TVH / TFF / TUD is the first canon reference for the NCC-1701-A hull to be called a "Constitution Class" as set by canon with the blueprint shown in the episode.
That means in STO, the TOS Enterprise -Starship Class- T1 ship, according to canon, is a DIFFERENT ship than the TMP Enterprise T2 -Enterprise Class- Which again, by canon, is different than the TMP Enterprise T2 -Constitution Class- (even though the TMP Enterprise Class and Constitution Class share the same hull design).
As such, the Devs can make the TMP Enterprise Class hull a T5, just not the TOS hull (if CBS is still holding to that knit pick over the TOS "Starship Class" that's wrongly called a Connie).
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
TOS - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 - Starship Class (named so by the dedication plaque on the bridge next to turbolift in the TOS series.. aka on screen canon. TOS ships were classified after Duty and not first of line.. Also Constitution was not First of line, the first hull registry for the hull design was the U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1017, followed by the U.S.S. Intrepid NCC-1631, then the U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1657, then the U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1664, then the U.S.S. Exeter NCC 1672 .. all of which had onscreen appearance.. there was also the U.S.S. Farragut NCC-1647, Kirk's first Starship assignment, but was not shown onscreen).
TMP / TWOK / TSFS - U.S.S Enterprise NCC-1701 (Refit) - Enterprise Class - Dedication plaque shown on the U.S.S. Enterprise simulator at the beginning of TWOK, This again is on screen canon.. Even Scotty and Decker stated that she was a completely new ship save some of the super-structure.
TVH / TFF / TUD - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-A (renamed starship that was newly built) - Constitution Class - The hull class was shown for this particual vessel at the top of the blueprints of the NCC-1701-A in TFF while Scotty was studying them.
I wish people would remember that Gene Roddenberry stated Canon is what is seen on screen and not what is in a book or a fandom creation. Calling the TOS Enterprise a Connie is a fandom naming of the ship, Calling the TMP Enterprise from TMP, TWOK and TSFS a Connie is also a fandom naming.... TOS set the CANON that the ship is "Starship Class" due to the Dedication plaque onthe bridge for 3 seasons, starting from "The Cage". TMP, TWOK and TSFS set canon with the dedication plaque on the Enterprise Simulator, naming the ship "Enterprise Class". TVH / TFF / TUD is the first canon reference for the NCC-1701-A hull to be called a "Constitution Class" as set by canon with the blueprint shown in the episode.
That means in STO, the TOS Enterprise -Starship Class- T1 ships according to canon is a DIFFERENT ship than the TMP Enterprise T2 -Enterprise Class- Which again by canon is different than the TMP Enterprise T2 -Constitution Class- (even though the TMP Enterprise Class and Constitution Class share the same hull design).
As such, the Devs can make the TMP hull a T5, just not the TOS hull (if CBS is still holding to that knit pick).
i don't believe the miranda a class was ever referred to as the miranda class. lets argue that thats not actually the name of its class to shall we? or not, because thats TRIBBLE.
the fact that the enterprise A is constitution class means all the previous class names were retconed.
the fact that the enterprise A is constitution class means all the previous class names were retconed.
If this were true, then that would make the TOS Enterprise a Sovereign Class starship as the NCC-1701-E classificatin would have retconed all the previous ships with the name Enterprise.
I think Not.
By canon, as shown on screen :
NCC-1701 (TOS) -Starship Class
NCC-1701 (refit) (TMP) - Enterprise Class
NCC-1701-A - Constitution Class
NCC-1701-B - Excelcior Class
NCC-1701-C - Ambassador Class
NCC-1701-D - Galaxy Class
NCC-1701-E - Sovereign Class
and for the first part of your post, you are correct, people call the Miranda and Reliant the "Miranda Class", not because that is the canon hull designation, but because the Miranda was the first ship of that design seen on screen and was named such by fandom. There is no official CANON naming of the Miranda's hull even though many have been seen on screen in different series / movies.
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STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
TOS - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 - Starship Class (named so by the dedication plaque on the bridge next to turbolift in the TOS series.. aka on screen canon. TOS ships were classified after Duty and not first of line.. Also Constitution was not First of line, the first hull registry for the hull design was the U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1017, followed by the U.S.S. Intrepid NCC-1631, then the U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1657, then the U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1664, then the U.S.S. Exeter NCC 1672 .. all of which had onscreen appearance.. there was also the U.S.S. Farragut NCC-1647, Kirk's first Starship assignment, but was not shown onscreen).
TMP / TWOK / TSFS - U.S.S Enterprise NCC-1701 (Refit) - Enterprise Class - Dedication plaque shown on the U.S.S. Enterprise simulator at the beginning of TWOK, This again is on screen canon.. Even Scotty and Decker stated that she was a completely new ship save some of the super-structure.
TVH / TFF / TUD - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-A (renamed starship that was newly built) - Constitution Class - The hull class was shown for this particual vessel at the top of the blueprints of the NCC-1701-A in TFF while Scotty was studying them.
Nope all of them are Constitution Class not Starship or Enterprise Class
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
On screen displays are NOT canon. Neither are blueprints or tech specs, onscreen or otherwise. Only dialogue is.
And this is according to who?
Certainly not the creator of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry.
Gene stated if it is seen on screen, it is canon.
As such, the dedication plaques giving Physical evidence overrules the dialogue that script writers were too lazy go verify before filming.
93 episodes of TOS stating the ship is Starship Class with a physical onscreen dedication plaque overrules 2 or 3 script writers who hadn't done their research.
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STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
If this were true, then that would make the TOS Enterprise a Sovereign Class starship as the NCC-1701-E classificatin would have retconed all the previous ships with the name Enterprise.
Err... no.
The Enterprise-A is physically identical to the post-refit Enterprise, and is clearly supposed to be the exact same design. So calling the A a Constitution Class retconnes the original to the same class. The Enterprise-E is not physically identical to any previous Enterprise. Therefore it being a Sovreign Class doesn't retcon any previous Enterprise.
And if we take all onscreen data as absolute canon, then how many contradictions do you think exist in Star Trek? Why do phasers fire an explosive, proximity detonated bolt in Balance of Terror but a beam everwhere else? Just as one of probably 100s of examples.
"The name Miranda-class was not mentioned in dialog on-screen, but was devised by the art department of TNG to refer to this design. The name was used on several pieces of on-screen signage referring to these vessels, and is also used by dedicated references such as the Star Trek Encyclopedia."
Starship class is best forgotten because it's stupid and was already retconned within TOS.
Just give me the ******n Excalibur/Vesper with the option on the Exeter skin.
Edit: Ohhhhhhh, we have a new hypersensitive profanity filter. The joys of this forum....
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Background information
Production materials reproduced in Stephen Whitfield's The Making of Star Trek suggested that the term "starship" was a unique designation for space-going vessels. In that vein, the USS Enterprise and her sister ships were originally designated "Starship-class" vessels. The dedication plaque on the bridge designates the ship as "USS Enterprise, Starship Class".
The term denoted a large, multi-purpose vessel capable of taking on a variety of tasks during an extended mission, often at some distance from central authority. (The nearest 24th century equivalent designation would be that of Explorer.) This helps explain Merrik's reference to a "very special type of vessel and crew" ("...Kirk commands, not just a spaceship, but a Starship".), as well as the numerous references to the extraordinary amount of authority granted the captain of such a ship.
However, in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as well as everything afterwards, the term fell into a more "generic" use, first as describing Federation vessels in general, and then large, faster-than-light-capable vessels from a range of cultures.
OK.. so the Production people state the dedication plaque is canon, Gene states the dedication plaque is canon, but you state it is not.
Guess you are right and the Creator of Star Trek is wrong.. got it.
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STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
Why do phasers fire an explosive, proximity detonated bolt in Balance of Terror but a beam everwhere else?
Because of a lazy scritp writer who hadn't done the research and the director at the time didn't catch the error in the difference in weapons (Gene even made comment about it but can't find link ATM).. those were proton torpedos and not phasers, even if the "Dialogue" said "Phasers". Common sense.
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STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
Certainly not the creator of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry.
Gene stated if it is seen on screen, it is canon.
As such, the dedication plaques giving Physical evidence overrules the dialogue that script writers were too lazy go verify before filming.
93 episodes of TOS stating the ship is Starship Class with a physical onscreen dedication plaque overrules 2 or 3 script writers who hadn't done their research.
Gene did not say that. Gene didn't count Season 3 of TOS, for instance.
Launched in 2245, the original and illustrious starship U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 was built in the San Francisco Yards orbiting Earth. The Constitution-class starship was previously captained by Robert April and Christopher Pike, before coming under the command of Captain James T. Kirk.
I'll refer you to the old Decipher card game, which Paramount handled approvals on:
Also, according to Gene, the ship in TMP was the same ship and the Enterprise-A from Star Trek IV was a contemporary of the TOS Enterprise, the Yorktown, which had undergone similar modifications, including the new nacelles.
I'll also refer you to Memory Alpha, the most reliable Trek wiki:
While probably discussed or originated in behind-the-scenes proposals and communications, the name "Constitution-class" originated in canon productions only as an unreadable graphic on a computer screen of a phaser diagram from Scotty's technical journal, in TOS: "The Trouble with Tribbles". Authors of reference works such as the Star Fleet Technical Manual were privy to the fact that Enterprise herself was Constitution-class, even though it had never been mentioned in dialog or been readable on screen. Technical Manual drawings by Franz Joseph with the class name appeared on screen, again mostly unreadable, in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. These were the first occasions a canonical production assigned the Constitution name to the class design of the Enterprise. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home assigned this class name to the refit Enterprise as well, although some production staff previously and, apparently, unofficially called that design Enterprise-class. The name Enterprise-class was also used in reference to the refitted Enterprise and the Enterprise-A in Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise. However, that particular book is not considered canonical. The class name wasn't mentioned in dialog until 1987's Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Naked Now". The name has been mentioned numerous times and been more prominently visible in later series and episodes referencing ships of the TOS and movies design.
In numerous onscreen references, including DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" and Enterprise's "Through a Mirror, Darkly," the TOS Enterprise and the TOS Defiant are identified as Constitution class.
Pesty, you either didn't read your own quote, or didn't critically think about it.
It would mean that Starfleet had only the Constitution/Starship-class as a frontline vessel. They have nothing else to compare to it in terms of armament, facilities and the ability to operate independently of a base for an extended period of time. And it's stated in the series that there are only 12 such vessels in service (which is probably also a mistake, given that every other ship in the series is a Constitution). Now, how likely is it that you could maintain an interstellar government, bordering at least two hostile powers, with only 12 ships of the order of size & resources as the Enterprise? Especially given that the Klingons are shown to put 8 ships (vs. one Enterprise) into a single engagment in Errand of Mercy? If there are only 12 frontline vessels, how are Starfleet able to spare 5 of them to test the M-5 computer?
Doesn't make any sense. That's why it's been retconned and that's why they stopped using the term "Starship" like that from the movies on.
Like I said, if you take everything in terms of names, technical details, timelines, science etc. on screen at face value, Star Trek is full of contradictions.
Because of a lazy scritp writer who hadn't done the research and the director at the time didn't catch the error in the difference in weapons (Gene even made comment about it but can't find link ATM).. those were proton torpedos and not phasers, even if the "Dialogue" said "Phasers". Common sense.
So a major VFX & script error that everyone saw and heard can be just a mistake, but a Starship dedication plaque that most people didn't read must remain sacrosanct and cannot possibly be superceeded by anything subsequent to it. Okay.
And it's stated in the series that there are only 12 such vessels in service (which is probably also a mistake, given that every other ship in the series is a Constitution).
It's stated that there are only twelve like it.
My take on that line is that there are more Constitution-class vessels (there have to be or we see over half the fleet destroyed in three years' time). But not all Constitution class vessels are alike.
In this case, I think the better inference is that the Enterprise is one of twelve ships that have had some kind of improvement. This could mean that there are twelve Connies with dramatically more capability than the stock model. It might not mean that all twelve "like it" are Connies.
The "twelve like it" line seems to imply that the Enterprise is a dramatically more capable ship than average but it could mean that the Enterprise is one of twelve ships with a hyper-efficient warp core and the rest of the ships, Connies included, have substantially less travel power and firepower (since engine power fueled the energy weapons back then).
Comments
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
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Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
This is not Star Trek then, nor should Cryptic/PWE be allowed to touch Trek. F2P argue is no excuse to just TRIBBLE up one of the better franchises in history. I think all the arguement for the connie is just silly. Why is there still all the commotion for a ship that was taken out of service..and then alter on we got a higher teir 2409 version anyway.
STO needs to stop putting out of era ships. This game was advertised for '2409' ....it needs to stay 2409+
Feels a bit to me like the Luna-class is to the Sovereign-class what the Nebula-class is to the Galaxy-class and Miranda-class is to the Constitution-class from a design standpoint.
That would be correct.
All you Miranda lovers are ridiculous. Its going to be softer than an egg even if T5 retrofitted. You'll get out into battle and blow up 5 times more than the rest of us, then go grab your proper ships.
Personally, Im not too keen on getting into starbase defense battles with squishy ships.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
There's also no Fleet version of the T-2 cruiser. So both are no goes.
What's in Tribble is the T-1 Miranda.
Well put.
I'm tired of hearing "they gotta make money, they gotta make money, they gotta make money" because it's a bogus argument. A well-thought-out game can make plenty of money on what may be the largest and longest lived franchise in history...If you can't make money on Star Trek, then you are doing it wrong.
There are restaurants that serve star trek breakfasts for petes sakes. Stay with the Star Trek formula, and the rest will take care of itself. You can't just take a cookie-cutter Asian MMO and stick a Star Trek sticker on it.
PWE, give us real Star Trek and we will give you money.
Join Date: Sep 2008
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: CHANGE THE FORUMS BACK !!!
Well, looks like I have no motivation to play season 6 AND no motivation to buy the Exeter to make an Exeter/Excalibur kitbash. Lose-lose for Cryptic.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I doubt that, since they already have the ability to exclude skins. See: Any ship variant from the C-Store.
Exactly. And they never bothered to tell us what CBS has to say to the Excalibur, Vesper and Exeter. It's always the same reply, that CBS doesn't want an endgame Constitution, even if that isn't the question anymore.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Something like this. Someone did that for Armada 2 way back when, could look fairly sexy when spruced up a bit I think.
Um, this is incorrect.
TOS - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 - Starship Class (named so by the dedication plaque on the bridge next to turbolift in the TOS series.. aka on screen canon. TOS ships were classified after Duty and not first of line.. Also Constitution was not First of line, the first hull registry for the hull design was the U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1017, followed by the U.S.S. Intrepid NCC-1631, then the U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1657, then the U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1664, then the U.S.S. Exeter NCC 1672 .. all of which had onscreen appearance.. there was also the U.S.S. Farragut NCC-1647, Kirk's first Starship assignment, but was not shown onscreen).
TMP / TWOK / TSFS - U.S.S Enterprise NCC-1701 (Refit) - Enterprise Class - Dedication plaque shown on the U.S.S. Enterprise simulator at the beginning of TWOK, This again is on screen canon.. Even Scotty and Decker stated that she was a completely new ship save some of the super-structure.
TVH / TFF / TUD - U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-A (renamed starship that was newly built) - Constitution Class - The hull class was shown for this particual vessel at the top of the blueprints of the NCC-1701-A in TFF while Scotty was studying them.
I wish people would remember that Gene Roddenberry stated Canon is what is seen on screen and not what is in a book or a fandom creation. Calling the TOS Enterprise a Connie is a fandom naming of the ship, Calling the TMP Enterprise from TMP, TWOK and TSFS a Connie is also a fandom naming.... TOS set the CANON that the ship is "Starship Class" due to the Dedication plaque onthe bridge for 3 seasons, starting from "The Cage". TMP, TWOK and TSFS set canon with the dedication plaque on the Enterprise Simulator, naming the ship "Enterprise Class". TVH / TFF / TUD is the first canon reference for the NCC-1701-A hull to be called a "Constitution Class" as set by canon with the blueprint shown in the episode.
That means in STO, the TOS Enterprise -Starship Class- T1 ship, according to canon, is a DIFFERENT ship than the TMP Enterprise T2 -Enterprise Class- Which again, by canon, is different than the TMP Enterprise T2 -Constitution Class- (even though the TMP Enterprise Class and Constitution Class share the same hull design).
As such, the Devs can make the TMP Enterprise Class hull a T5, just not the TOS hull (if CBS is still holding to that knit pick over the TOS "Starship Class" that's wrongly called a Connie).
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Pestalence_XC
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"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
Holy frack. A loophole. Suck on that CBS
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the fact that the enterprise A is constitution class means all the previous class names were retconed.
If this were true, then that would make the TOS Enterprise a Sovereign Class starship as the NCC-1701-E classificatin would have retconed all the previous ships with the name Enterprise.
I think Not.
By canon, as shown on screen :
NCC-1701 (TOS) -Starship Class
NCC-1701 (refit) (TMP) - Enterprise Class
NCC-1701-A - Constitution Class
NCC-1701-B - Excelcior Class
NCC-1701-C - Ambassador Class
NCC-1701-D - Galaxy Class
NCC-1701-E - Sovereign Class
and for the first part of your post, you are correct, people call the Miranda and Reliant the "Miranda Class", not because that is the canon hull designation, but because the Miranda was the first ship of that design seen on screen and was named such by fandom. There is no official CANON naming of the Miranda's hull even though many have been seen on screen in different series / movies.
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Pestalence_XC
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"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
Nope all of them are Constitution Class not Starship or Enterprise Class
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And this is according to who?
Certainly not the creator of Star Trek, Gene Roddenberry.
Gene stated if it is seen on screen, it is canon.
As such, the dedication plaques giving Physical evidence overrules the dialogue that script writers were too lazy go verify before filming.
93 episodes of TOS stating the ship is Starship Class with a physical onscreen dedication plaque overrules 2 or 3 script writers who hadn't done their research.
STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
Err... no.
The Enterprise-A is physically identical to the post-refit Enterprise, and is clearly supposed to be the exact same design. So calling the A a Constitution Class retconnes the original to the same class. The Enterprise-E is not physically identical to any previous Enterprise. Therefore it being a Sovreign Class doesn't retcon any previous Enterprise.
And if we take all onscreen data as absolute canon, then how many contradictions do you think exist in Star Trek? Why do phasers fire an explosive, proximity detonated bolt in Balance of Terror but a beam everwhere else? Just as one of probably 100s of examples.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Enterprise_class
Miranda was seemingly used on on-screen props. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class
"The name Miranda-class was not mentioned in dialog on-screen, but was devised by the art department of TNG to refer to this design. The name was used on several pieces of on-screen signage referring to these vessels, and is also used by dedicated references such as the Star Trek Encyclopedia."
Starship class is best forgotten because it's stupid and was already retconned within TOS.
Just give me the ******n Excalibur/Vesper with the option on the Exeter skin.
Edit: Ohhhhhhh, we have a new hypersensitive profanity filter. The joys of this forum....
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
so you would argue with this
or this
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starship
OK.. so the Production people state the dedication plaque is canon, Gene states the dedication plaque is canon, but you state it is not.
Guess you are right and the Creator of Star Trek is wrong.. got it.
STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
He's talked about this before, he was wrong then and he's wrong now. TOS Enterprise is Constitution class.
Because of a lazy scritp writer who hadn't done the research and the director at the time didn't catch the error in the difference in weapons (Gene even made comment about it but can't find link ATM).. those were proton torpedos and not phasers, even if the "Dialogue" said "Phasers". Common sense.
STO Forum Account Creation Date: June 9, 2008 (Perpetual Entertainment at the time)
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Pestalence_XC
Proud member of Xenocorp
"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead." - Kyle Reese, 'Terminator'
Gene did not say that. Gene didn't count Season 3 of TOS, for instance.
He's also not the custodian of the IP.
I'll refer you to the old Decipher card game, which Paramount handled approvals on:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Star-Trek-CCG-TwT-Starship-Enterprise-/310311491027#ht_1387wt_1159
Also, according to Gene, the ship in TMP was the same ship and the Enterprise-A from Star Trek IV was a contemporary of the TOS Enterprise, the Yorktown, which had undergone similar modifications, including the new nacelles.
I'll also refer you to Memory Alpha, the most reliable Trek wiki:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constitution_class
In numerous onscreen references, including DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" and Enterprise's "Through a Mirror, Darkly," the TOS Enterprise and the TOS Defiant are identified as Constitution class.
It would mean that Starfleet had only the Constitution/Starship-class as a frontline vessel. They have nothing else to compare to it in terms of armament, facilities and the ability to operate independently of a base for an extended period of time. And it's stated in the series that there are only 12 such vessels in service (which is probably also a mistake, given that every other ship in the series is a Constitution). Now, how likely is it that you could maintain an interstellar government, bordering at least two hostile powers, with only 12 ships of the order of size & resources as the Enterprise? Especially given that the Klingons are shown to put 8 ships (vs. one Enterprise) into a single engagment in Errand of Mercy? If there are only 12 frontline vessels, how are Starfleet able to spare 5 of them to test the M-5 computer?
Doesn't make any sense. That's why it's been retconned and that's why they stopped using the term "Starship" like that from the movies on.
Like I said, if you take everything in terms of names, technical details, timelines, science etc. on screen at face value, Star Trek is full of contradictions.
So a major VFX & script error that everyone saw and heard can be just a mistake, but a Starship dedication plaque that most people didn't read must remain sacrosanct and cannot possibly be superceeded by anything subsequent to it. Okay.
It's stated that there are only twelve like it.
My take on that line is that there are more Constitution-class vessels (there have to be or we see over half the fleet destroyed in three years' time). But not all Constitution class vessels are alike.
In this case, I think the better inference is that the Enterprise is one of twelve ships that have had some kind of improvement. This could mean that there are twelve Connies with dramatically more capability than the stock model. It might not mean that all twelve "like it" are Connies.
The "twelve like it" line seems to imply that the Enterprise is a dramatically more capable ship than average but it could mean that the Enterprise is one of twelve ships with a hyper-efficient warp core and the rest of the ships, Connies included, have substantially less travel power and firepower (since engine power fueled the energy weapons back then).