I bet this is for and escort. Have you ever tried flying a cruiser. I have tried every way with my cruiser there are times when I can hang in there but at the end boom. Escorts are overpowered and pvp is unbalanced. Even 1v1 i still lost. Alot of players fly escorts in pvp why because it is the only way to win.
I agree with this, and I do have a very solid understanding of the game. In PVP if you're not flying an escort, you're not killing anything. Sitting around tanking while not getting kills is not fun.
My primary ship type of choice are the cruisers. I have more Engineering captains than any other. I've got one in just about every cruiser available in game, and they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. With a cruiser it's not always about damage, as with escorts, it's usually about survival. Cruisers are slow, and don't turn very fast, so you have to have the right kind of skills, and weapon setups to get your shot at killing stuff.
Take for instance a few examples...
The great and powerful Galaxy-X. (Of Doomz)
It's basically a Galaxy-R without saucer sep. However you gain cloak, a Phaser Lance, and can use heavy cannons. (I for one have my own thoughts on this, but you can use them)
My tactic with this ship is to drop shields, get close, and phaser lance them to death, then tank like a boss while team mates take out everyone else.
The Escort Cruiser (Aka the Excelsior)
This cruiser is an excellent DPS cruiser that has way better turning radius, and bridge officer load outs for extreme damage. (Aka Bob from Podcast UGC. lol )
If you set this cruiser up right, it can be a real pain in pvp for most players. Load it out with some Disruptor Beams and dual beam banks with HY and some Quantums = face roll cruiser.
You also have the Oddy. This is an interesting ship, and especially if you have all 3 variants you can add all three consoles to it and have some fun. You also have the benefit of having 3 different load outs and can set one up for how you want it. It's probably one of the more versatile cruisers available. Any captain could fly it and be successful. I use it as my healer cruiser and tanking. Borg aint got S*** on this thing.
Along the same lines, I also picked up the Klingon variant, the Bortasqu'.. Pretty much the same thing but personally I find it more tactical than anything. It turns like a dead hippo, with another dead hippo on it's foot, but you use your skills right, and select the right weapons for it, and boom! It's just sick.
Really, you can fly whatever ship you want in PVP, and it's all going to boil down to team work. I've been in PVP matches with 3 escorts focus firing on me, and managed to take it all, (Like a BOSS). Eventually you are going to die, but teamwork is key. Stay with groups of people. (It's like they say, don't wander off in the woods alone... you never know when Jason Voorhee's is behind you with a machete.) It takes time to find out the right setup for the ships, and I've personally redone several of my cruisers over time. Play style and dedication are the only thing that really work to your benefits.
Don't quit just because you purchased a ship, took it into PVP once and got rolled. I did that for months, but eventually you figure it out, and you end up writing a huge long reply to someone like this!
I'm more than happy to help out, just send me an in game PM and I can offer you up a few ideas that work for me. Could honestly be worth a shot.
What missions are you talking about? I can't think of even one mission in the game that escorts aren't the best choices.
Yeah, I wanna know too. lol
I love cruisers but after a few PUG's where the whole team was Cruisers in an STF and how long that match takes. Forget the Optional lets just hope we get done sometime tonight. lol
Where as in an escort if the whole team is Cruisers and you in an escort at least the games gonna end. With Time limits and the fact the faster you can get it done the better loot you get, Optionals, etc.
Its just better to be in an escort for all dailies. Grinding out your 8k Dilith, yada yada.
I agree with this, and I do have a very solid understanding of the game. In PVP if you're not flying an escort, you're not killing anything. Sitting around tanking while not getting kills is not fun.
Not true, but believe what you wish.
Cruisers are not in PvP to kill and take names unless they're very well designed or on a team of Cruisers cross-healing and killing by sustained fire.
If you are a Cruiser in a mixed vessel team you job is more for healing and damage over time to apply pressure.
I've seen several well played cruisers kill in PvP and I've seen just as many escort pop like ticks when fired upon by cruisers.
I have been playing this game for a little while now.
I saved my marbles and bought some c to get a bartasqu and a carrier.
i now realize i wasted all that time money and grinding to get the C.
My feelings about this game are based on pvp and how the game is completly unbalanced.
the smallest ships in the game are the most powerful???
when a defiant can sit still facing a cruiser and shrug off all its damage and debuffs, and drop
the cruisers shields in 2 seconds and kill it in 3 there is a massive imbalance.
I have gotten all the items available in the game and tried every differnt set up i could
try or search out on the web.
nothin can stand up to the smallest ships in the game and this makes me ask the question.
wth are the dev's thinking.
well if this is the way the game is made then everyone get a defiant or the opposite for kdf.
people actually call these ships alpha's which is kinda rediculas because there smaller then my
deflector dish, yet pack more power and defence then a huge supposedly powerful cruiser or carrier.
I have seen it over and over in pvp month after month and i realize if there is no response to my
gm post and this post by the devs to this fact, then its time to move along and find another game.
now im sure all the fan boys will attack me foir this post but they dont really matter do they.
the first thing internet tough guys say is "its because you suck" and i reply then lets go into
a pvp match and ill show you my bortasqu is set up right.
they dont usualy want to go.
Um... You say you are not setup wrong but my Bortasqu' would pound the living TRIBBLE out of a Defiant if it decided to sit nose-to-nose with me. If it does not get out of my forward arc it is dead in no time.
yes i have fought in many pvp missions and got high scoore and kills.
and i usualy kill regular escorts the ship i foguht that dropped my shielda in one second and killed my ship in 3 was a jem hedar attack ship i had no shields at all so tac team or other faceing shield wouldnt help so i hit emg power to shields and other shield heals and they did absolutly nothing they stayed empty
to all the fan boys that attacked me in all these posts you need to learn to read.
no where in my post does it say the word nerf.
and the title of this thread is tiny over powered ships.
the ship was so tiny no one could see what it was.
the one smack that posted he was in the battle with me had to go back and check what ship it was.
on my bort i run the borg deflector and shield with a klingon engine
i read the post that tells differnt builds and i will go to the pvp forum and try to get the propper build for it.
still my ship has gone through many many pvp battles and most of the time beats them all but
this jem hedar attack ship acutaly killed my ship in 3 or 4 seconds as i spammed heals
and the team would not focus fire on him they simply ran away from it.
as for the defiant i sat face to face in a one on one just the other day that was the guy that we ended up talking about builds.
i also use plasmonic assimilaor and aceton generator and energy siphon which do absolutly nothing to these teeny tiny ships.
the guy i was in the one on one with the other day had 2 aceton gens on him while my plasmonic
was running and i used energy siphon didnt affect him at all he tanked away.
the fact that a tiny defiant can sit and tank while its energy is being drained at a really high rate and its being blasted with 4 cannons and 4 turrets while my tac captain is spamming damage buffs is unbalanced
they gain a massive dodge bonus moving but why move if you really dont need too when you can blast away with nothing to worry about.
that is what im talking about when i say there not balanced.
tiny ships ahould have to move period.
to all those that gave constuctive awnsers to this post i thank you.
Was science for a long time..., went to escort and never looked back. Now instead of 3-3 kill death in pvp i get almost 12+ kills - 0 death every round.
Enemys cant outrun me, Enemys cant get away when there damaged even with evasive manouvers etc.. And i can also kill a cruiser in about 3-4 seconds as opposed to 3-4mins like itd occasionaly take in a sci ship.
Escort all the way for pvp for me, the other classes are just a joke in comparrison regardless of how great you all think your builds are ^^
My feeling is 2 of the same consoles should "NOT" be allowed on any ship. The OP is correct is saying the escorts/BoPs are OPed and imho allways have been. The cruisers have BIGGER and MORE of everything and thus should be able to defeat an escort all things being equal. 2 escorts/bops vs 1 cruiser should beable to turn the tide however.
If speed is the saving grace and making it to hard to hit a escort/bop then maybe the acc on weapons isnt large enough. MK XII purple phaser beam array with "acc" should "start" at 30%, maybe that would help against the speed defense of the escort/bop.
Whatever it is, there isnt enough engineer/sci console OR Boff slots on a escort/bop to make them strong enuff to take on multiple Cruisers, if anything there shields should be dropping and their hulls should be taking a beating. Even IF they have emergency shields I and II, multiple ships beating on them at the same time should still send them to the breakers.
Now experince does count of course, a hotshot PvPer with an adequet setup should be able to defeat an inexperinced PvPer with the best set up.
I do not think balance is the correct term though, because BIGGER is BADDER in the ship vs ship world. If a Russian destroyer went up against the USS New Jersey in a head to head gun dual when the New Jersey was in her Prime, who would win? Its the same in STO, an escort/Bop should not be able to take out a Dreadnought/Bortas in seconds, all things being equal.
You can flame me all you want, but I am an experienced PvPer and just play the hand I am dealt...However, that does not mean it is...right.
my 2 slips of latnium worth
"Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
I really don't get the agro against escorts. Time and time again canon episodes have shown smaller craft taking on cruisers and winning.
And even if that wasn't the case this is a MMO. Just because you are a Tank doesn't mean a Stalker can't come up to you, neutralize your meat shield, and take you out with sneaky attacks and superior dps. Thats how it is in every mmo between tanker and dps'er.
ill say that while i agree that escorts are a little too punchy ( i think there has to be more give for the take) i also think their damage output is just fine.
my only thing is escorts stopping and just pew pewing.. in the show, the defient was always at full speed doing its thing... i think they need to work a balance into the game that gives a super huge disadvantage to lower or stopped speeds in escorts.
i mean, the escort ingame was always supposed to get all of its defense from engine power and speed. so if it comes to a complete stop, it should take double or tripple the dmg.
i find that the armatage is quit op... i mean with shield heal drones, it can go toe to toe with a tac cube, tank it , and destroy it.. (happens on our jupiter force runs all the time) that is a huge problem. that ship should not be able to go toe to toe with a tac cube.
yes some of it is that the pilot of the ship is baller or what not, but also, they never had that kind of luck with any other escort.. and the only change that is in the pipeline that we know for it is more hull... not exactly helping the sutuation. (oh, and by the by, he was a tac officer too taking on the tac cube all by his lonesome)...
so yeah, the only problem i see is the escorts do not take enouph of a penalty for not staying at full speed... that would make me happier. lol...
if anybody has ever ran into Bitey McStinkface, he makes the "bortas"(is that how its spelled?)
work in some pretty amazing ways. spent massive "bank" on many specific and very important items to maximize the build in countless ways. i am aware of diminishing returns and sometimes choose what some would consider foolhardy till they see the "big" picture.
ill drop my "recommendations" feel free to pass this up or use it as you see fit.
the special thing about the bortas cstore is not the consoles themselves, its the extra slots.
both the tac and eng version are amazing ships. also the universal bo slots can supplement the lack of damage an eng capt is capable of, (along w dual heavies n turrets)
run dual tac teams, it will balance your shields during heavy attack and give you attack buff.
retro borg console, def, and eng. for passive hull shield regen, maco, reman or aegis shield (large covariant) i run 5 nutroniums when running eng version. i will explain why now, even a small amount of resist matters when say 1000 energy dmg hits sheild 10% bleedthrough under standard conditions so 100 hits hull, take (close to but not quite) 50% resist into effect so in the end (w/o other abilities) 50/1000 dmg you actually have to deal with. (nutroniums cover kenetic also)
this is core stuff, i wont mention doffs and bo abilities besides tac team.
im hoping this helps those with bortas in "distress" without trying to tell them how "i" want their ship, its thiers its shiny, and they should like it. good luck and good hunting!
10% is the ship/equipment. 40% is the player/builds. 50% is the team backing you up.
So chances are if your loosing more than half your battles in PvP, then something is wrong with one or all three of the above.
Sadly, most people want to be the lone wolf hero and have little concept of teamwork. As a result, they think that any ship that requires a team environment in order to be fully effective is "weak". The truth is, they just don't know how to play. In a team oriented gaming envronment, they want to emulate a stupid and unrealistic tv show and be "Capt. Kirk"; going it alone against impossible odds and always coming out on top. It make me wonder why they play MMOs at all other than to annoy the rest of us... :rolleyes:
I've never seen, heard of, or played a MMO/PvP that had balance and I started playing MMO's with the launch of Everquest.
Every MMO with PvP attached has flavors of the month powers and builds flowing and ebbing like the tide.
When some guy on youtube tries to tell me that a X-wing fighter can one shot a Federation Cruiser like the Enterprise D or E while taking a fully volley of photon torpedos and suffer no damage I think of all these balance threads.
It's total BULLCRAP on both counts.
Did WoW have balance in PvP? Did Age of Conan have Balance? Did Warhammer? Did any of them! Bueller?? Ferris Bueller???
He's not in class and neither is balance.
Thank god you can still have a fun and rewarding game without balance or else mental hospitals all over the globe would have to care for all us gamers. Truely, you can drive yourself mad expecting flawed Human Beings to create and maintain the Perfect Gaming system.
The OP is correct is saying the escorts/BoPs are OPed and imho allways have been. The cruisers have BIGGER and MORE of everything and thus should be able to defeat an escort all things being equal. 2 escorts/bops vs 1 cruiser should beable to turn the tide however.
...
I do not think balance is the correct term though, because BIGGER is BADDER in the ship vs ship world. If a Russian destroyer went up against the USS New Jersey in a head to head gun dual when the New Jersey was in her Prime, who would win? Its the same in STO, an escort/Bop should not be able to take out a Dreadnought/Bortas in seconds, all things being equal.
If it'd take two escorts to take down one cruiser, how many escorts would you really still see in game? What the hell would be the upside? Canon and logic, while they definately need to have a place in the process, are hardly sacrosanct and bad places to argue from if you mean to preserve game balance.
And you're not even doing it right.
The escorts with paper hulls is a Cryptic thing. The Defiant was heavily armored, and with its small size comes a high ratio of solid mass versus empty space. In comparison, a sovereign class Assault cruiser (which currently I fly, quite successfully I might add) is one giant crumple zone. Your logic works well enough for seaships, where a bigger hull stays afloat longer, but in space, a hole is a hole, and smaller ships don't have to skimp on armoring to preserve bouyancy.
As for being able to fit more weapons on a bigger ship... sure. Different weapons positioned at different points on the hull that all have to be directed independently, and simultaneously (those that have it in their firing arc anyway) at a small, fast moving target. Versus a smaller number of weapons, most of which fire forward only, making targeting a matter of simply pointing yourself at the enemy and pressing fire.
You want to claim escorts should still have appreciably less firepower than a cruiser, then I'll insist they need to have a higher damage resistance to match the change.
But all that aside...
Having played escorts, and for the past few months, an assault cruiser, I really don't think they're that unbalanced. Yes, some escorts can be incredibly hard to destroy. And some (sadly, a lot of) cruiser captains might as well come in with a shuttlecraft for all the survivability they bring to the game. The difference really is in the pilots, not the ship classes. You change the classes, the people who have been destroying the OP will simply make the switch and destroy him from their now 'superior' cruisers. No one will be any more or less successful because of it.
I'd suggest an arena system, so people get pitted basically against their equals, so they're not put off by experienced players on day one, but frankly I think (Hell, I know) STO's PvP community or even STO as a whole hasn't got the numbers for it. PvP's neck's on the chopping block as it is.
In the meanwhile, tactical team, reverse shield polarity, engineering team, hazard emiters, aux to structural integrity, emergency power to weapons, directed energy modulation, all beam weapons of the same type, polarize hull to shake off tractor beams and don't touch fire at will unless you're far from other hostiles or clearing mines and fighter pets, as it'll cut your DPS-on-target to next to nothing. Common mistake, I think. And the PVP scoreboard doesnt'even track the damage you do to pets and other non-player objects.
its not a pvp game haha you should have know ahead of time
nanana boo boo stick your head in doo doo we got your money and time so tough.
why dont they just increase the damage of cruisers or lessen the defense's of tiny ships and make then fly fast or die.
it wouldnt cause you to be any less a threat you would just have to a good captain and not an op'd tank
this post was about the over power AND DEFENCE of the tinyest ships in the game.
if there going to be gun ships they should be glass cannons if there going to be defence tanks they shouldn't be death cannons.
its not that hard to understand but most of the arguements are coming from tiny ships captains that are getting there mental masturbation from pawning.
the tiny ships get maneuverability and speed which makes them next to impossible to hit and indistructable unless you spend alot of effort to make it possible.
they are also over powered so they can make qucik destructive hits.
with the super strong defence they get to sit and shoot and tank while doing that massive damage which is not how its supposed to work.
big ships cant maneuver so they need lower damage weapons that can shoot in more directions.
they cant dodge so they need to be tanks.
it's seems so simple to me why is it so hard for these supposed highly intelligent star trek lovers to figure out.
and im repeating this again the ship that killed my cruiser in a few seconds was a jem'hedar attack ship.
must be a little gift from the dev's to really TRIBBLE people off ontop of the imbalance that already exists.
I have been nice in my other posts in this thread. Others have too. The PvP community has come right out and explained how it is done.
So now I will be blunt.
What should really get your cruiser JOCK gourds is the fact that these "OP spank and tank glass cannons" are BEATING YOU AT YOUR OWN GAME.
That is the reality. Every mechanic that these guys are using to, in your view, "cheat" and "exploit" is available in spades to the cruisers. Every one of them and the cruiser can pack more of them. Even two Tactical Team 1s!
When I go against some of the best cruiser captains in this game in PvP and get rebuffed in my tuned escort I know that every one of your calling for a nerf of the escort is full of it.
I also know when I go against these Cruiser commanders that really know their game and I get rebuffed that I have a lot more to learn. It's not NURPH CRUSERS tehy ar 2 hard to mak POP! For me it's talk realistically with the PvP guys and brush up on my observation and timing skills. I.E. I still need to L2P and quit face rolling just because things look good when the reality is their heals just came off cooldown.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
A really good cruiser may never kill a really good escort that plays strategically but a really good escort will never kill a really good cruiser.
If you're getting killed by an escort, you're built improperly or it's more than one.
In general, the problem is uncoordinated damage dealers on your side or lack of or uncoordinated healers.
Podcast UGC has been talking a LOT lately about this. If your cruiser is focused on killing things, you're playing against the paradigm a bit. If your cruiser is focused on staying alive above all else, one person cannot kill you on firepower alone.
Cruisers are damage sponges, not killing machines. You can try to be a killing machine but then it's your fault for doing so if you get blown up. Because you made a tradeoff.
Comments
I agree with this, and I do have a very solid understanding of the game. In PVP if you're not flying an escort, you're not killing anything. Sitting around tanking while not getting kills is not fun.
Take for instance a few examples...
The great and powerful Galaxy-X. (Of Doomz)
It's basically a Galaxy-R without saucer sep. However you gain cloak, a Phaser Lance, and can use heavy cannons. (I for one have my own thoughts on this, but you can use them)
My tactic with this ship is to drop shields, get close, and phaser lance them to death, then tank like a boss while team mates take out everyone else.
The Escort Cruiser (Aka the Excelsior)
This cruiser is an excellent DPS cruiser that has way better turning radius, and bridge officer load outs for extreme damage. (Aka Bob from Podcast UGC.
If you set this cruiser up right, it can be a real pain in pvp for most players. Load it out with some Disruptor Beams and dual beam banks with HY and some Quantums = face roll cruiser.
You also have the Oddy. This is an interesting ship, and especially if you have all 3 variants you can add all three consoles to it and have some fun. You also have the benefit of having 3 different load outs and can set one up for how you want it. It's probably one of the more versatile cruisers available. Any captain could fly it and be successful. I use it as my healer cruiser and tanking. Borg aint got S*** on this thing.
Along the same lines, I also picked up the Klingon variant, the Bortasqu'.. Pretty much the same thing but personally I find it more tactical than anything. It turns like a dead hippo, with another dead hippo on it's foot, but you use your skills right, and select the right weapons for it, and boom! It's just sick.
Really, you can fly whatever ship you want in PVP, and it's all going to boil down to team work. I've been in PVP matches with 3 escorts focus firing on me, and managed to take it all, (Like a BOSS). Eventually you are going to die, but teamwork is key. Stay with groups of people. (It's like they say, don't wander off in the woods alone... you never know when Jason Voorhee's is behind you with a machete.) It takes time to find out the right setup for the ships, and I've personally redone several of my cruisers over time. Play style and dedication are the only thing that really work to your benefits.
Don't quit just because you purchased a ship, took it into PVP once and got rolled. I did that for months, but eventually you figure it out, and you end up writing a huge long reply to someone like this!
I'm more than happy to help out, just send me an in game PM and I can offer you up a few ideas that work for me. Could honestly be worth a shot.
Yeah, I wanna know too. lol
I love cruisers but after a few PUG's where the whole team was Cruisers in an STF and how long that match takes. Forget the Optional lets just hope we get done sometime tonight. lol
Where as in an escort if the whole team is Cruisers and you in an escort at least the games gonna end. With Time limits and the fact the faster you can get it done the better loot you get, Optionals, etc.
Its just better to be in an escort for all dailies. Grinding out your 8k Dilith, yada yada.
Are nearly helpless in Gorn minefield7
Also not so hot against dreadnaughts
Not true, but believe what you wish.
Cruisers are not in PvP to kill and take names unless they're very well designed or on a team of Cruisers cross-healing and killing by sustained fire.
If you are a Cruiser in a mixed vessel team you job is more for healing and damage over time to apply pressure.
I've seen several well played cruisers kill in PvP and I've seen just as many escort pop like ticks when fired upon by cruisers.
R.I.P
Um... You say you are not setup wrong but my Bortasqu' would pound the living TRIBBLE out of a Defiant if it decided to sit nose-to-nose with me. If it does not get out of my forward arc it is dead in no time.
and i usualy kill regular escorts the ship i foguht that dropped my shielda in one second and killed my ship in 3 was a jem hedar attack ship i had no shields at all so tac team or other faceing shield wouldnt help so i hit emg power to shields and other shield heals and they did absolutly nothing they stayed empty
to all the fan boys that attacked me in all these posts you need to learn to read.
no where in my post does it say the word nerf.
and the title of this thread is tiny over powered ships.
the ship was so tiny no one could see what it was.
the one smack that posted he was in the battle with me had to go back and check what ship it was.
on my bort i run the borg deflector and shield with a klingon engine
i read the post that tells differnt builds and i will go to the pvp forum and try to get the propper build for it.
still my ship has gone through many many pvp battles and most of the time beats them all but
this jem hedar attack ship acutaly killed my ship in 3 or 4 seconds as i spammed heals
and the team would not focus fire on him they simply ran away from it.
as for the defiant i sat face to face in a one on one just the other day that was the guy that we ended up talking about builds.
i also use plasmonic assimilaor and aceton generator and energy siphon which do absolutly nothing to these teeny tiny ships.
the guy i was in the one on one with the other day had 2 aceton gens on him while my plasmonic
was running and i used energy siphon didnt affect him at all he tanked away.
the fact that a tiny defiant can sit and tank while its energy is being drained at a really high rate and its being blasted with 4 cannons and 4 turrets while my tac captain is spamming damage buffs is unbalanced
they gain a massive dodge bonus moving but why move if you really dont need too when you can blast away with nothing to worry about.
that is what im talking about when i say there not balanced.
tiny ships ahould have to move period.
to all those that gave constuctive awnsers to this post i thank you.
Enemys cant outrun me, Enemys cant get away when there damaged even with evasive manouvers etc.. And i can also kill a cruiser in about 3-4 seconds as opposed to 3-4mins like itd occasionaly take in a sci ship.
Escort all the way for pvp for me, the other classes are just a joke in comparrison regardless of how great you all think your builds are ^^
however it is sort of untrue, i am able to make large ships equally, if more powerfully than escorts out there
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If speed is the saving grace and making it to hard to hit a escort/bop then maybe the acc on weapons isnt large enough. MK XII purple phaser beam array with "acc" should "start" at 30%, maybe that would help against the speed defense of the escort/bop.
Whatever it is, there isnt enough engineer/sci console OR Boff slots on a escort/bop to make them strong enuff to take on multiple Cruisers, if anything there shields should be dropping and their hulls should be taking a beating. Even IF they have emergency shields I and II, multiple ships beating on them at the same time should still send them to the breakers.
Now experince does count of course, a hotshot PvPer with an adequet setup should be able to defeat an inexperinced PvPer with the best set up.
I do not think balance is the correct term though, because BIGGER is BADDER in the ship vs ship world. If a Russian destroyer went up against the USS New Jersey in a head to head gun dual when the New Jersey was in her Prime, who would win? Its the same in STO, an escort/Bop should not be able to take out a Dreadnought/Bortas in seconds, all things being equal.
You can flame me all you want, but I am an experienced PvPer and just play the hand I am dealt...However, that does not mean it is...right.
my 2 slips of latnium worth
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
And even if that wasn't the case this is a MMO. Just because you are a Tank doesn't mean a Stalker can't come up to you, neutralize your meat shield, and take you out with sneaky attacks and superior dps. Thats how it is in every mmo between tanker and dps'er.
So chances are if your loosing more than half your battles in PvP, then something is wrong with one or all three of the above.
my only thing is escorts stopping and just pew pewing.. in the show, the defient was always at full speed doing its thing... i think they need to work a balance into the game that gives a super huge disadvantage to lower or stopped speeds in escorts.
i mean, the escort ingame was always supposed to get all of its defense from engine power and speed. so if it comes to a complete stop, it should take double or tripple the dmg.
i find that the armatage is quit op... i mean with shield heal drones, it can go toe to toe with a tac cube, tank it , and destroy it.. (happens on our jupiter force runs all the time) that is a huge problem. that ship should not be able to go toe to toe with a tac cube.
yes some of it is that the pilot of the ship is baller or what not, but also, they never had that kind of luck with any other escort.. and the only change that is in the pipeline that we know for it is more hull... not exactly helping the sutuation. (oh, and by the by, he was a tac officer too taking on the tac cube all by his lonesome)...
so yeah, the only problem i see is the escorts do not take enouph of a penalty for not staying at full speed... that would make me happier. lol...
work in some pretty amazing ways. spent massive "bank" on many specific and very important items to maximize the build in countless ways. i am aware of diminishing returns and sometimes choose what some would consider foolhardy till they see the "big" picture.
ill drop my "recommendations" feel free to pass this up or use it as you see fit.
the special thing about the bortas cstore is not the consoles themselves, its the extra slots.
both the tac and eng version are amazing ships. also the universal bo slots can supplement the lack of damage an eng capt is capable of, (along w dual heavies n turrets)
run dual tac teams, it will balance your shields during heavy attack and give you attack buff.
retro borg console, def, and eng. for passive hull shield regen, maco, reman or aegis shield (large covariant) i run 5 nutroniums when running eng version. i will explain why now, even a small amount of resist matters when say 1000 energy dmg hits sheild 10% bleedthrough under standard conditions so 100 hits hull, take (close to but not quite) 50% resist into effect so in the end (w/o other abilities) 50/1000 dmg you actually have to deal with. (nutroniums cover kenetic also)
this is core stuff, i wont mention doffs and bo abilities besides tac team.
im hoping this helps those with bortas in "distress" without trying to tell them how "i" want their ship, its thiers its shiny, and they should like it. good luck and good hunting!
Sadly, most people want to be the lone wolf hero and have little concept of teamwork. As a result, they think that any ship that requires a team environment in order to be fully effective is "weak". The truth is, they just don't know how to play. In a team oriented gaming envronment, they want to emulate a stupid and unrealistic tv show and be "Capt. Kirk"; going it alone against impossible odds and always coming out on top. It make me wonder why they play MMOs at all other than to annoy the rest of us... :rolleyes:
Every MMO with PvP attached has flavors of the month powers and builds flowing and ebbing like the tide.
When some guy on youtube tries to tell me that a X-wing fighter can one shot a Federation Cruiser like the Enterprise D or E while taking a fully volley of photon torpedos and suffer no damage I think of all these balance threads.
It's total BULLCRAP on both counts.
Did WoW have balance in PvP? Did Age of Conan have Balance? Did Warhammer? Did any of them! Bueller?? Ferris Bueller???
He's not in class and neither is balance.
Thank god you can still have a fun and rewarding game without balance or else mental hospitals all over the globe would have to care for all us gamers. Truely, you can drive yourself mad expecting flawed Human Beings to create and maintain the Perfect Gaming system.
If it'd take two escorts to take down one cruiser, how many escorts would you really still see in game? What the hell would be the upside? Canon and logic, while they definately need to have a place in the process, are hardly sacrosanct and bad places to argue from if you mean to preserve game balance.
And you're not even doing it right.
The escorts with paper hulls is a Cryptic thing. The Defiant was heavily armored, and with its small size comes a high ratio of solid mass versus empty space. In comparison, a sovereign class Assault cruiser (which currently I fly, quite successfully I might add) is one giant crumple zone. Your logic works well enough for seaships, where a bigger hull stays afloat longer, but in space, a hole is a hole, and smaller ships don't have to skimp on armoring to preserve bouyancy.
As for being able to fit more weapons on a bigger ship... sure. Different weapons positioned at different points on the hull that all have to be directed independently, and simultaneously (those that have it in their firing arc anyway) at a small, fast moving target. Versus a smaller number of weapons, most of which fire forward only, making targeting a matter of simply pointing yourself at the enemy and pressing fire.
You want to claim escorts should still have appreciably less firepower than a cruiser, then I'll insist they need to have a higher damage resistance to match the change.
But all that aside...
Having played escorts, and for the past few months, an assault cruiser, I really don't think they're that unbalanced. Yes, some escorts can be incredibly hard to destroy. And some (sadly, a lot of) cruiser captains might as well come in with a shuttlecraft for all the survivability they bring to the game. The difference really is in the pilots, not the ship classes. You change the classes, the people who have been destroying the OP will simply make the switch and destroy him from their now 'superior' cruisers. No one will be any more or less successful because of it.
I'd suggest an arena system, so people get pitted basically against their equals, so they're not put off by experienced players on day one, but frankly I think (Hell, I know) STO's PvP community or even STO as a whole hasn't got the numbers for it. PvP's neck's on the chopping block as it is.
In the meanwhile, tactical team, reverse shield polarity, engineering team, hazard emiters, aux to structural integrity, emergency power to weapons, directed energy modulation, all beam weapons of the same type, polarize hull to shake off tractor beams and don't touch fire at will unless you're far from other hostiles or clearing mines and fighter pets, as it'll cut your DPS-on-target to next to nothing. Common mistake, I think. And the PVP scoreboard doesnt'even track the damage you do to pets and other non-player objects.
its not a pvp game haha you should have know ahead of time
nanana boo boo stick your head in doo doo we got your money and time so tough.
why dont they just increase the damage of cruisers or lessen the defense's of tiny ships and make then fly fast or die.
it wouldnt cause you to be any less a threat you would just have to a good captain and not an op'd tank
this post was about the over power AND DEFENCE of the tinyest ships in the game.
if there going to be gun ships they should be glass cannons if there going to be defence tanks they shouldn't be death cannons.
its not that hard to understand but most of the arguements are coming from tiny ships captains that are getting there mental masturbation from pawning.
the tiny ships get maneuverability and speed which makes them next to impossible to hit and indistructable unless you spend alot of effort to make it possible.
they are also over powered so they can make qucik destructive hits.
with the super strong defence they get to sit and shoot and tank while doing that massive damage which is not how its supposed to work.
big ships cant maneuver so they need lower damage weapons that can shoot in more directions.
they cant dodge so they need to be tanks.
it's seems so simple to me why is it so hard for these supposed highly intelligent star trek lovers to figure out.
and im repeating this again the ship that killed my cruiser in a few seconds was a jem'hedar attack ship.
must be a little gift from the dev's to really TRIBBLE people off ontop of the imbalance that already exists.
So now I will be blunt.
What should really get your cruiser JOCK gourds is the fact that these "OP spank and tank glass cannons" are BEATING YOU AT YOUR OWN GAME.
That is the reality. Every mechanic that these guys are using to, in your view, "cheat" and "exploit" is available in spades to the cruisers. Every one of them and the cruiser can pack more of them. Even two Tactical Team 1s!
When I go against some of the best cruiser captains in this game in PvP and get rebuffed in my tuned escort I know that every one of your calling for a nerf of the escort is full of it.
I also know when I go against these Cruiser commanders that really know their game and I get rebuffed that I have a lot more to learn. It's not NURPH CRUSERS tehy ar 2 hard to mak POP! For me it's talk realistically with the PvP guys and brush up on my observation and timing skills. I.E. I still need to L2P and quit face rolling just because things look good when the reality is their heals just came off cooldown.
If you're getting killed by an escort, you're built improperly or it's more than one.
In general, the problem is uncoordinated damage dealers on your side or lack of or uncoordinated healers.
Podcast UGC has been talking a LOT lately about this. If your cruiser is focused on killing things, you're playing against the paradigm a bit. If your cruiser is focused on staying alive above all else, one person cannot kill you on firepower alone.
Cruisers are damage sponges, not killing machines. You can try to be a killing machine but then it's your fault for doing so if you get blown up. Because you made a tradeoff.