I keep seeing folks say this, and I wanted to put this disinformation to rest.
All pets are given leveless gear. It scales exactly to their level. If you are level 51 using a carrier, then your pets will have level 51 (aka Mk X) gear.
The discrepancy you may be experiencing is in comparing their output to your own. They are a smaller craft that use different class damage tables, their "Mk X" gear is white with no mods, and they have no skills.
If they need to do more damage, then that is something we can control separately.
You fellows are the only ones that know what is actually in these ships. From my end I see a BoP fire dual cannon at a ship and doing less than the stats of a white mark 7 dual cannon per shot. As for them being a smaller craft..umm... bird of prey is a bird of prey raider not a fighter like the ToDujs..why would they be in a small ship class weapon table? Anyways, the problem is indeed the dual cannon damage.
There's two reasons for it:
1- It does puny damage (nearly 60 damage per hit on shields, 120~220ish on hull..and no this is not the turret this is the dual cannon damage shown in the combat log).
2- They almost never have time to fire the dual cannons on target. See below.
2. Birds of Prey (only) use a special routine that causes them to make an attack run There is an issue in the code here on its order or trigger events. Here is the repeating scenario I encountered on my Pi Canis run today.
-Arrive on mission map
Wait to deploy BoP waves 1 &2 before doing anything else- Set carrier command to aggro
target single Fed patrol on Jam missions normally between 14km to 24km depending on mission
-Close to >15km from target and fire Bio-Neural Warhead, carrier enters Red Alert
- 10km ish BoPs enter Red Alert
- All BoPs combat AI are triggered and you can see visual powers activated my guess cannons rapied fire and Trops High Yeild and then they all accelerate to attack speed
-BoP 1 & 2 have accelerated to attack speed right around 10km but turn (left or right depending on where the enemy is) and move to another shield facing arc before closing on the target.
-BoP 3&4 turn slightly but head in generally the enemys direction starting their attack run but turn away (left or right depending on where the enemy is) from the target at about 7km to 5km and start accelerating in a large turn to restart the attack pattern.
- BoP 1&2 repeats what BoP 3&4 just did and BoP 3&4 repeats what BoP 1&2 originally did.
- BoPs seem to cloak after or on the second attack run
-Average disrupter damage was between 24 to 29 per hit vs shields.
-Current flight pattern makes little use of the duel cannons.
I have three issues with the pattern they are currently using.
1. The turn to flank the target when they are already at max range and in the best spot for a strafing run.
2. The turning away from the target at 7km to 5km instead of closer or even better flying past the target and then turning away.
3. If 1and 2 are fixed the BoP will be able to utilize the duel cannons better and we should see a good increase in DSP from them.
I've been saying this is the #1 issue for the BoPs ever since the torpedo damage was nerfed and this horrid new attack run pattern was introduced.
Prior to the change the BoP's would head straight for the target ..as in nose-to-target straight... cloaked... and would decloak at about 5km range, fire up until 1km range and break off...then fly out to 6km, cloak, turn around, and do another pass. The beauty of it was the BoPs flew in as a group and all 4 hit the same shield side at once. A true decloak+spike damage attack.
The only two problems with that attack run (aside from other AI issues concerning targeting) was simply that the BoPs flew way too fast to fire the guns more than twice and the torpedo and then they broke off and started circling the target too close for them to turn nose back on target (aka they stayed firing turret only).
Here's a video of the BoP attack run pattern pre-changes.
You will notice that when they are given the attack order the BoPs all turn to face target inside 2km distance from their starting point and they all attack the same shield facing in the first attack run. Notice also that when they cease their attack run (very close to target ship) they break off and SPEED AWAY out of range.
Today that is simply impossible. BoPs fly wide circles around a target and do miserable damage to the ship because they hit it from different directions. :mad:
The current attack pattern fixed the circling problem... but it made the initial attack run completely useless because the BoPs fly in random directions and hit the target from different sides. They still barely fire the dual cannon and spend more time firing turret while they try to nose to target at max speed until the very last moment that they fire the torpedo..and then they break off at 5km. Makes no sense at all.
The BoP's attack run should be:
-Cloak from 10km to 5km range. This enables them to fly to targets without getting shot at. Its the BoP role!
-5km to 0.5km decloak and fly at half speed. This allows the dual cannons to have firing time.
-Upon hitting 0.5km~0.1km the BoP should go to max speed and fly out to 8km range (cloaking the moment they cross 5km distance) and start the attack run again by slowing to 1/4th, nosing to target and going back for another pass.
No turning no silly circling. Just in and out. Circling and turning is a ToDuj's job.
I do notice the BoP's this patch fly slower.. it helps a little bit but they still are more concerned with turning to flank ship or whatever and end up being completely ineffective damage wise. Since they do not cloak while flying to target the slower speed also gets them killed rather quickly at long ranges.
...and they still have their own hate lists. Half the time now I have to recall my pets constantly because one wing of BoPs is 20km away even though my attack order is up and im firing on a ship 5km from me. BoPs should have only 1 target on hate list: what the carrier told them to attack. They should not be picking any other target.
(and they do.. from 22km out the BoPs will pick up targets on their own...easily seen by targeting a BoP and flying slowly towards a hostile. The BoPs pick the target at around 22km and keep it.. if you order BoP to attack another ship they will do so... and the moment its dead they will switch back to their self-selected target and fly to it ...ignoring all your orders except recall.)
I don't have access to see what your side see's but as far as what they are actually doing with fighters for the most part it appears like they are just shooting with no weapons power at scaling turret strength against possible enemy resistances. For the most part it appears like they do not have any weapons power backing up those weapons.
Non-player ships generally default to balanced power settings (i.e. 50).
Non-player ships generally default to balanced power settings (i.e. 50).
Ah... that explains why my Aquarius' energy weapons barely register on the enemies' shields, but its quantum torps seem to do about as much damage as mine. (I love it when a torp from my escort finishes off a ship I've been fighting, with a torpedo. )
Ok, so I was doing some testing today and found that the To'Duj fight most normal ships without a problem. I ran Alpha using them and I had no problems in the space combat against the pirates, however when I ran an STF the To'Duj refused to fight ANY of the Borg vessels.
So it seems the problem is only occurring when the fighters engage the Borg. No rush, I understand you're all working on the BoPs (which need it), I'm just trying to provide information.
You will notice that when they are given the attack order the BoPs all turn to face target inside 2km distance from their starting point and they all attack the same shield facing in the first attack run. Notice also that when they cease their attack run (very close to target ship) they break off and SPEED AWAY out of range.
I do remember those days too but I curious to see if the current BoP flight pattern is the same as the Kar'Fi frigates.
Edit: After testing it does not appear that they use the same flight pattern.
Non-player ships generally default to balanced power settings (i.e. 50).
Can we change that? Make it so pets use standard defaults based on their roles? For example, set it so "Attack Pets" (BoPs, fighters, saucer sections, etc.) use "Attack Mode" (ie 100 Weapons Power). Whereas "Support Pets" (Powers Syphons Drones, Shield Repair Drones, D'Kyr's Shuttle, etc.) use a "Maxed Aux" or "Defensive" (maxed shield) as appropriate.
Having fighters only use 50 weapons power seems wasteful.
Can we change that? Make it so pets use standard defaults based on their roles? For example, set it so "Attack Pets" (BoPs, fighters, saucer sections, etc.) use "Attack Mode" (ie 100 Weapons Power). Whereas "Support Pets" (Powers Syphons Drones, Shield Repair Drones, D'Kyr's Shuttle, etc.) use a "Maxed Aux" or "Defensive" (maxed shield) as appropriate.
Having fighters only use 50 weapons power seems wasteful.
Ah... that explains why my Aquarius' energy weapons barely register on the enemies' shields, but its quantum torps seem to do about as much damage as mine. (I love it when a torp from my escort finishes off a ship I've been fighting, with a torpedo. )
And probably generally a big part of the PvE balance problem as well as the PvE and PvP dichotomies. Not only do NPCs use less BO (and equivalant) powers than players, their main damage source is kinetic, not energy weapons like it is for players.
If they would move from a balanced setup to a 100 / 50 / 25 / 25 setup (and maybe 100, 25, 50, 25 for Escort type ships and 100, 25, 25, 50 for ships with science vessels), they'd at least get closer to PC ship capabilities in that regard.
This has become a very common topic of conversation, so I figured I'd bring you guys into the loop on some recent changes...
I actually just did a round of AI improvements on the BoP Carrier Pet yesterday, and those changes will be making their way to QA very soon. Whether or not they go live in a speedy manner is still up in the air, as the improvements that were made to their powers and AI actually may have made these pets too powerful compared to some other carrier pet options. More balance testing is necessary before the package can be released into the wild.
what are you talking about?
PET AI was tottaly TRIBBLE sometimes i was launching the BOP and they wherent even attacking even if i had commanded them or if they attakced they used to attack once then just run around..
For the first time the PET AI system at least on BoP's is working as intented and u ask for a NERF????
You out of ur mind ?
Instead to be thankfull for fixing the game u ask for a rollback?
out of the question -1 from me for this post
BoP's are working better and the undying bug is fixed so we cant ask anything more
About the rest pets i cant tell cause i use BoP;s only but i imagine since BoP AI is working better i assume that all pet AI will work better.
PET AI was tottaly TRIBBLE sometimes i was launching the BOP and they wherent even attacking even if i had commanded them or if they attakced they used to attack once then just run around..
For the first time the PET AI system at least on BoP's is working as intented and u ask for a NERF????
You out of ur mind ?
Instead to be thankfull for fixing the game u ask for a rollback?
out of the question -1 from me for this post
BoP's are working better and the undying bug is fixed so we cant ask anything more
About the rest pets i cant tell cause i use BoP;s only but i imagine since BoP AI is working better i assume that all pet AI will work better.
You're complaining about something that already happened. The nerf he refers to took place about 4 or 5 patches ago. Read the date on the post and try and read the thread itself to catch up.
BoP damage was reduced nearly 20% and it sucked. Then their attack patterns were changed so that they do less than half the effective damage per attack run than before.
On the flip side, two major bugs were fixed: Pets no longer pick up orders from other carriers and pets no longer go fubar when there's too many pets deployed in the map/team.
You're complaining about something that already happened. The nerf he refers to took place about 4 or 5 patches ago. Read the date on the post and try and read the thread itself to catch up.
BoP damage was reduced nearly 20% and it sucked. Then their attack patterns were changed so that they do less than half the effective damage per attack run than before.
On the flip side, two major bugs were fixed: Pets no longer pick up orders from other carriers and pets no longer go fubar when there's too many pets deployed in the map/team.
lol they nerfed BOP dmg by 20%?
Why no1 was using it anyway.....
No1 intelligent enough player will ever use the BOP console unless its fixed
Cause like i said i cant even use it on pve
i attack cubes and even if my BOP doesnt aggro it will die from exploding cube ALWAYAS!!!!
making it a useless PET with a useless 5 min CD
just a joke console trying to lure buyers and thats wrong and idc if u accuse me for trolling or whatever
its the truth and i aint troll i just say the truth i aint lie and since i am customer i have the right to complain about the product.
You promised me a BOP pet not a pet that i will luanch once and once i kill something it will die also and wait 5 more mins just to launch it again just to throw a couple of cannon fires then just die and wait 5 mins again to launch it again.
lol 5 mins wont last the arena que.....
5 mins for a silly AI that i cant recall to protect there is no use or tactic or strategy for this tool u provide its tottaly useless and u SHOULD remove it or replace it with something that i can be use for us!!!!
The part of it that says 'carrier' tell you this is about the carrier BoPs not the cstore bortas cruiser BoP pet.
sry my bad i got confused and thought iwas writing in HoH sus BOP threat :P
Still 20% nerf on the BOP carrier pet is very high......
20% big number if u wanna fix something u try with 5% first then if still need more fix then 5% more.. etc etc
But no because couple of feds whined you just go BOOM and 20% nerf on my poor pets......
So is it better to use the small fighters now i guess instead of the overnerfed BOP?
ps.Btw cryptic my patience is running out if u wanna nerf something nerf federation never ending
shields.....
ps2. i mean i play since january and all i c is KDF nerfs and NO fed nerf
I choose to be KDF because i like them more ship looks and bad *** warrior style and i always liked klingons in trek movies (yes especially their females their ***** where nice and big! :P)
Now why i have to get nerfed every month???
Dont i pay the same money as fed players pay?
Dont i support the game by adverising on my friends and everywhere i can trying to get more ppl in here?
keep it up and u loose me from customer and player if u wanna nerf things nerf both sides not KDF only!!!!
i get owned also sometimes do i have to start whining asking to nerf feds?
No i just whine when i see unnecessary nerfs like this and when i see others whining when things are tottaly balanced and their failure is caused by their lack of skills or knowledge about the game.
Ye i was failing a lot when i first started but i learned things about the game and got new gear and ships and made tests and many respecs and stuff and after 3-4 months i feel i am fine and enjoying the game without being OP ofc...
Yes i still die or i cant kill others but thats how its supposed to be i cant be invicible or WTF dps or both at same time cause its OP. So far i never seen an unbalance issue even with field generators back to 35% i was cosidering it balanced. So my BOP pets where balanced if u ask me and u nerfed them 20% WHY?
Ok i understand to fix the unkillable pet bug or whatever bug but why to nerf by 20% my pets?
Why do it now and didnt do when i first released the pet?
Because feds whine?
if that is the case we can start whining also?
if thats the solution KDF can whine also wanna see?
Not from me cause i aint whiner i adopt and play but srsly STOP NERFING MY SHIPS 1 AFTER THE OTHER.
Keep the game stable try to avoid unnecessary nerfs and focus only on bug fixing and adding more end game content if you want my advice by nerfing my BOP carrier pets you only achieve to hold me from buying the c store carrier sadly ..... and make me fly other ship types.... than 20% nerfed carrier.
The whiners will not stop no matter how much u nerf whiners kids liers trolls there will be always be around whining.....
if u ask me the game was perfect when i first saw it the more the ''nerf'' things the more the mess up the initial balance...
There is a war going on out there and the "GOD'' cant keep on punishing KDF side only!
i mean 20% nerf is a big number what feds will get nerfed at? cause feds got unbalanced things also....because we dont whine it doesnt mean they are not there.
Leave KDF alone nerf maco shields and fed ship shield modifiers nerf the never ending shields if u wanna fix balance and leave ,the already problematic AI, BoP's alone plz.
U see? we can whine also
now another KDF nerf and i am out of the game srsly dont wanna threat or something just saying my intentions i cant stand to watch me getting nerfed when i am truly balanced and leave others untouched this is not FAIR.
BoP's are working better and the undying bug is fixed so we cant ask anything more
About the rest pets i cant tell cause i use BoP;s only but i imagine since BoP AI is working better i assume that all pet AI will work better.
Unfortunately the To'Duj fighters are still bugged like crazy making them useless in STFs...
They have new formations that they fly in that look cool though :^D
Unfortunately the To'Duj fighters are still bugged like crazy making them useless in STFs...
They have new formations that they fly in that look cool though :^D
-Quiiliitiila
no no you didnt understand me correctly i believe.
I meant the undying pets bug is gone my BOP's they still cant attack stractures in stf's or anywhere else.
They just tweaked a bit their AI so they make better manuevers and shoot a bit better maybe and the MOST IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE IS that they now actually cloack if i recall them...
They are still bugged on attacking stractures and from what i understand this is a hard bug to fix and dont expect any fix anytime soon.
But thats ok for me i understand technical difficulties and i have big patience since u guys work had to solve them i appreciate this.
But did you have to nerf BoP pet dps by the big 20% number?????
Sry and sry again for big texts and lots of nerves coming from me but i rly hate it if i have something then just 1 day some1 decides to take it away just like that without asking community first and without proper planning.
Stop with all the nerfs srsly i cant stand getting nerfed its the worst thing you can do to your customers.
Ok give us rip off useless consoles just to buy the bortas bundle thats ok with me i like the game and i like to pay for it i like the bortas ships i just think their uni consoles are a joke they tottaly doesnt worth wasting any console slot for them..
But nerfing my carriers BOP by 20% come on 20% big difference i just sry and sry again this is getting 2 much for me to a point that u make me think that ''ok klingon scum we got ur money now we nerf you to lure federation nooblet money into our pockets and u can GTFO you and ur carrier and ty for buying cryptic points''
Now instead to sent me msg for trolling and ban me etc etc shut me down and loose me and my friends from customers prove me that is not like that i describe above
Prove me that u actually care for the game and what you do has a point and a goal.
Now the carrier's dps wasnt the best before the nerf with only 6 beams now many tactical abilites that bucket cant deal decent cruiser dps without its pets.
Its pets are supposed to be its prime dps source and nerfing them 20% is overreact if u ask me
ty
At least i expect when u bring fed carrier with 6 weapons slots its pet will deal same dps as my nerfed BoP's right?
Regardless, after the BoP damage nerf & intro of new attack run patch ...and before the Toduj AI got screwed.... the answer is yes.
It is better to use ToDujs rather than the nerfed BoPs. The reason is simple: ToDujs do more damage.
The BoP 'alpha' strike damage was effectively and completely removed by the new attack run pattern. When before they would hit for 10k per torpedo, firing 2 torpedos per BoP all in the same shield at once (80k damage) they have been nerfed down to 8k damage per torpedo and now use an attack run that for some jackassed reason has them split all over the place and barely get to fire one torpedo ...and each BoP wing hitting a different shield.
From 80k to one shield facing to barely 40~60k striking 2 or 3 different shields. From damn good alpha strike to useless damage.
The ToDujs on the other hand... a swarm of 12 fighters each firing one torpedo every 20 seconds that does 5k damage ...and they all hit the same shield. 60k damage to one shield plus their cannon damage that while light, is constant and hits that very same shield too (id say the swarm does about 8k damage in 20 seconds with its guns).
...and the ToDujs do not have that TRIBBLE 'i choose my own targets and ignore my carrier' TRIBBLE the BoPs still do.
I think what may have been lost in regards to the BoP is that they are the Vo'Quv's 'premier' pet.
They are supposed to out damage other pets, that's why they are restricted to the underpowered 6-gun space slug that is the Vo'Quv.
I was actually more dissapointed with the 'attack pattern' changes then the damage nerf, then I played my Kar'Fi for a couple days. OMG, I had forgotten how OP that carrier is in comparison to the Vo'Quv.
I like that the BoP now cloak when 'following' the carrier, but they still drop cloak any time they go 'agressive'.
They should not be dropping thier cloak untill the moment before they begin firing. It's the Romulans who like to drop cloak and start launching insults, not the Klingons.
The 'hate list' issues have yet to be adressed. If the carrier is not within 10k of an enemy the BoP will turn and bolt in different directions to other random engagments. Forcing the carrier to recall them and wait 10-15 seconds to find all his pets again.
Aside from the tendancy to blow up faster then you can respawn them, the 'cloak on exit' isn't terrible.
Problem is that they decloak before starting thier next attack run. The 'normal' state for the BoP should be cloaked. After finishing an attack run and evade, they should remain cloaked as they set up the next run.
The next run should not begin untill they are a set distance from target, with nose on target. Then they should drop cloak as they begin firing.
I fly a SCI vessel and noticed that when I'm trying to do additional damage to the gates and transformers my Photonic fleet will materialize and immediately de-materialize unless there is a ship to fight. They totally ignore structures and will disappear almost instantly. Photonic fleets should stick around for a little while as long as you are in combat.
And can you look at Scorpion Fighters? I launch them and never seem to see them again. They seem to go far away (I sometimes seem one stuck in a gate) but I never know if I launched it or someone else.
The To'Duj are attacking the Borg again, albeit with slightly less enthusiasm as before. They will still not attack Borg structures, so whatever that problem is it's still there.
The S'Kul fighters are as peppy as ever, but will not attack structures and seem to miss with their ramming more often then they used to. I'm not saying the explosion missed, I'm saying they fly to hit their target and actually miss it...
The Power Siphon Drones... They're still sick, but I've noticed a decrease in the amount of power they drain.
I think what may have been lost in regards to the BoP is that they are the Vo'Quv's 'premier' pet.
They are supposed to out damage other pets, that's why they are restricted to the underpowered 6-gun space slug that is the Vo'Quv.
I was actually more dissapointed with the 'attack pattern' changes then the damage nerf, then I played my Kar'Fi for a couple days. OMG, I had forgotten how OP that carrier is in comparison to the Vo'Quv.
I like that the BoP now cloak when 'following' the carrier, but they still drop cloak any time they go 'agressive'.
They should not be dropping thier cloak untill the moment before they begin firing. It's the Romulans who like to drop cloak and start launching insults, not the Klingons.
The 'hate list' issues have yet to be adressed. If the carrier is not within 10k of an enemy the BoP will turn and bolt in different directions to other random engagments. Forcing the carrier to recall them and wait 10-15 seconds to find all his pets again.
Aside from the tendancy to blow up faster then you can respawn them, the 'cloak on exit' isn't terrible.
Problem is that they decloak before starting thier next attack run. The 'normal' state for the BoP should be cloaked. After finishing an attack run and evade, they should remain cloaked as they set up the next run.
The next run should not begin untill they are a set distance from target, with nose on target. Then they should drop cloak as they begin firing.
This could not have been said better.
The VoQuvs DPS was pretty linked to its BOP IMO.
The BOP was the best of all the Deployable that the VoQuv had available to it and when they worked properly the VoQuv saw great success.
I flew the VoQuv for the longest time till I broke down and tried the KarFi.
The KarFi far surpasses the VoQuv in almost all Carrier aspects.
The KarFi can be deadly with almost any Deployable that it can use.
The Voquv is still gimped when it comes to Weapon slots and turn rate and without its BOP its very hard to get any real damage out of it.
The BOP need to be made useful again so that the VoQuv can still post some DPS.
The VoQuv needs to be updated to at least get the missing forward weapon slot.
A vessel the size of the VoQuv should have 4 x 4 weapon slots.
The S'Kul fighters are as peppy as ever, but will not attack structures and seem to miss with their ramming more often then they used to. I'm not saying the explosion missed, I'm saying they fly to hit their target and actually miss it...
My S'Kul will attack structures... depending on the launched wave. I've had part of my S'Kul fighters that were launched at the time attack structures, whereas part would fly up to the gate in Cure and sit there while I had a large Nanite structure targeted (they would fly back down to attack probes and spheres once those were targeted). Launching a new wave to replace the ones having tea with the gate usually got the new wave to attack.
My S'Kul will attack structures... depending on the launched wave. I've had part of my S'Kul fighters that were launched at the time attack structures, whereas part would fly up to the gate in Cure and sit there while I had a large Nanite structure targeted (they would fly back down to attack probes and spheres once those were targeted). Launching a new wave to replace the ones having tea with the gate usually got the new wave to attack.
Thanks for the correction, I should have said they will not attack the large nanites and gates, but they will attack the small nanite transformers.
Thanks for the correction, I should have said they will not attack the large nanites and gates, but they will attack the small nanite transformers.
Mine will attack the small all the time, it's the large that seems to confuse part of them, with part attacking and part sitting around some of the time.
Good news, one of the programmers has implemented a preliminary fix that may solve the issue of non-player entities unable to attack large structures (Borg transwarp gates, for instance).
Good news, one of the programmers has implemented a preliminary fix that may solve the issue of non-player entities unable to attack large structures (Borg transwarp gates, for instance).
I thought this day would never come! Many pictures will have to be taken to show the turning point in the timeline... Headline news pets attack big things now!
Now if only my Skul fighters would stop blowing themselves up when I select an ally and the fighters are still in attack mode...
Based on how they are designed to work they are doing what you are telling them too. Pretty much what I would recommend is when you select that ally switch to recall (to you), or escort (the allied target). That's if though the commands are fixed and they actually do what they are supposed to do.
Comments
You fellows are the only ones that know what is actually in these ships. From my end I see a BoP fire dual cannon at a ship and doing less than the stats of a white mark 7 dual cannon per shot. As for them being a smaller craft..umm... bird of prey is a bird of prey raider not a fighter like the ToDujs..why would they be in a small ship class weapon table? Anyways, the problem is indeed the dual cannon damage.
There's two reasons for it:
1- It does puny damage (nearly 60 damage per hit on shields, 120~220ish on hull..and no this is not the turret this is the dual cannon damage shown in the combat log).
2- They almost never have time to fire the dual cannons on target. See below.
I've been saying this is the #1 issue for the BoPs ever since the torpedo damage was nerfed and this horrid new attack run pattern was introduced.
Prior to the change the BoP's would head straight for the target ..as in nose-to-target straight... cloaked... and would decloak at about 5km range, fire up until 1km range and break off...then fly out to 6km, cloak, turn around, and do another pass. The beauty of it was the BoPs flew in as a group and all 4 hit the same shield side at once. A true decloak+spike damage attack.
The only two problems with that attack run (aside from other AI issues concerning targeting) was simply that the BoPs flew way too fast to fire the guns more than twice and the torpedo and then they broke off and started circling the target too close for them to turn nose back on target (aka they stayed firing turret only).
Here's a video of the BoP attack run pattern pre-changes.
http://youtu.be/xuQpeQxF2s8
You will notice that when they are given the attack order the BoPs all turn to face target inside 2km distance from their starting point and they all attack the same shield facing in the first attack run. Notice also that when they cease their attack run (very close to target ship) they break off and SPEED AWAY out of range.
Today that is simply impossible. BoPs fly wide circles around a target and do miserable damage to the ship because they hit it from different directions. :mad:
The current attack pattern fixed the circling problem... but it made the initial attack run completely useless because the BoPs fly in random directions and hit the target from different sides. They still barely fire the dual cannon and spend more time firing turret while they try to nose to target at max speed until the very last moment that they fire the torpedo..and then they break off at 5km. Makes no sense at all.
The BoP's attack run should be:
-Cloak from 10km to 5km range. This enables them to fly to targets without getting shot at. Its the BoP role!
-5km to 0.5km decloak and fly at half speed. This allows the dual cannons to have firing time.
-Upon hitting 0.5km~0.1km the BoP should go to max speed and fly out to 8km range (cloaking the moment they cross 5km distance) and start the attack run again by slowing to 1/4th, nosing to target and going back for another pass.
No turning no silly circling. Just in and out. Circling and turning is a ToDuj's job.
I do notice the BoP's this patch fly slower.. it helps a little bit but they still are more concerned with turning to flank ship or whatever and end up being completely ineffective damage wise. Since they do not cloak while flying to target the slower speed also gets them killed rather quickly at long ranges.
...and they still have their own hate lists. Half the time now I have to recall my pets constantly because one wing of BoPs is 20km away even though my attack order is up and im firing on a ship 5km from me. BoPs should have only 1 target on hate list: what the carrier told them to attack. They should not be picking any other target.
(and they do.. from 22km out the BoPs will pick up targets on their own...easily seen by targeting a BoP and flying slowly towards a hostile. The BoPs pick the target at around 22km and keep it.. if you order BoP to attack another ship they will do so... and the moment its dead they will switch back to their self-selected target and fly to it ...ignoring all your orders except recall.)
Non-player ships generally default to balanced power settings (i.e. 50).
Ah... that explains why my Aquarius' energy weapons barely register on the enemies' shields, but its quantum torps seem to do about as much damage as mine. (I love it when a torp from my escort finishes off a ship I've been fighting, with a torpedo. )
So it seems the problem is only occurring when the fighters engage the Borg. No rush, I understand you're all working on the BoPs (which need it), I'm just trying to provide information.
-Quiiliitiila
I do remember those days too but I curious to see if the current BoP flight pattern is the same as the Kar'Fi frigates.
Edit: After testing it does not appear that they use the same flight pattern.
Having fighters only use 50 weapons power seems wasteful.
Agreed, this would be really nice.
And probably generally a big part of the PvE balance problem as well as the PvE and PvP dichotomies. Not only do NPCs use less BO (and equivalant) powers than players, their main damage source is kinetic, not energy weapons like it is for players.
If they would move from a balanced setup to a 100 / 50 / 25 / 25 setup (and maybe 100, 25, 50, 25 for Escort type ships and 100, 25, 25, 50 for ships with science vessels), they'd at least get closer to PC ship capabilities in that regard.
what are you talking about?
PET AI was tottaly TRIBBLE sometimes i was launching the BOP and they wherent even attacking even if i had commanded them or if they attakced they used to attack once then just run around..
For the first time the PET AI system at least on BoP's is working as intented and u ask for a NERF????
You out of ur mind ?
Instead to be thankfull for fixing the game u ask for a rollback?
out of the question -1 from me for this post
BoP's are working better and the undying bug is fixed so we cant ask anything more
About the rest pets i cant tell cause i use BoP;s only but i imagine since BoP AI is working better i assume that all pet AI will work better.
You're complaining about something that already happened. The nerf he refers to took place about 4 or 5 patches ago. Read the date on the post and try and read the thread itself to catch up.
BoP damage was reduced nearly 20% and it sucked. Then their attack patterns were changed so that they do less than half the effective damage per attack run than before.
On the flip side, two major bugs were fixed: Pets no longer pick up orders from other carriers and pets no longer go fubar when there's too many pets deployed in the map/team.
lol they nerfed BOP dmg by 20%?
Why no1 was using it anyway.....
No1 intelligent enough player will ever use the BOP console unless its fixed
Cause like i said i cant even use it on pve
i attack cubes and even if my BOP doesnt aggro it will die from exploding cube ALWAYAS!!!!
making it a useless PET with a useless 5 min CD
just a joke console trying to lure buyers and thats wrong and idc if u accuse me for trolling or whatever
its the truth and i aint troll i just say the truth i aint lie and since i am customer i have the right to complain about the product.
You promised me a BOP pet not a pet that i will luanch once and once i kill something it will die also and wait 5 more mins just to launch it again just to throw a couple of cannon fires then just die and wait 5 mins again to launch it again.
lol 5 mins wont last the arena que.....
5 mins for a silly AI that i cant recall to protect there is no use or tactic or strategy for this tool u provide its tottaly useless and u SHOULD remove it or replace it with something that i can be use for us!!!!
Tragic.....
Err.. did you read the thread's title?
The part of it that says 'carrier' tell you this is about the carrier BoPs not the cstore bortas cruiser BoP pet.
sry my bad i got confused and thought iwas writing in HoH sus BOP threat :P
Still 20% nerf on the BOP carrier pet is very high......
20% big number if u wanna fix something u try with 5% first then if still need more fix then 5% more.. etc etc
But no because couple of feds whined you just go BOOM and 20% nerf on my poor pets......
So is it better to use the small fighters now i guess instead of the overnerfed BOP?
ps.Btw cryptic my patience is running out if u wanna nerf something nerf federation never ending
shields.....
ps2. i mean i play since january and all i c is KDF nerfs and NO fed nerf
I choose to be KDF because i like them more ship looks and bad *** warrior style and i always liked klingons in trek movies (yes especially their females their ***** where nice and big! :P)
Now why i have to get nerfed every month???
Dont i pay the same money as fed players pay?
Dont i support the game by adverising on my friends and everywhere i can trying to get more ppl in here?
keep it up and u loose me from customer and player if u wanna nerf things nerf both sides not KDF only!!!!
i get owned also sometimes do i have to start whining asking to nerf feds?
No i just whine when i see unnecessary nerfs like this and when i see others whining when things are tottaly balanced and their failure is caused by their lack of skills or knowledge about the game.
Ye i was failing a lot when i first started but i learned things about the game and got new gear and ships and made tests and many respecs and stuff and after 3-4 months i feel i am fine and enjoying the game without being OP ofc...
Yes i still die or i cant kill others but thats how its supposed to be i cant be invicible or WTF dps or both at same time cause its OP. So far i never seen an unbalance issue even with field generators back to 35% i was cosidering it balanced. So my BOP pets where balanced if u ask me and u nerfed them 20% WHY?
Ok i understand to fix the unkillable pet bug or whatever bug but why to nerf by 20% my pets?
Why do it now and didnt do when i first released the pet?
Because feds whine?
if that is the case we can start whining also?
if thats the solution KDF can whine also wanna see?
Not from me cause i aint whiner i adopt and play but srsly STOP NERFING MY SHIPS 1 AFTER THE OTHER.
Keep the game stable try to avoid unnecessary nerfs and focus only on bug fixing and adding more end game content if you want my advice by nerfing my BOP carrier pets you only achieve to hold me from buying the c store carrier sadly ..... and make me fly other ship types.... than 20% nerfed carrier.
The whiners will not stop no matter how much u nerf whiners kids liers trolls there will be always be around whining.....
if u ask me the game was perfect when i first saw it the more the ''nerf'' things the more the mess up the initial balance...
There is a war going on out there and the "GOD'' cant keep on punishing KDF side only!
i mean 20% nerf is a big number what feds will get nerfed at? cause feds got unbalanced things also....because we dont whine it doesnt mean they are not there.
Leave KDF alone nerf maco shields and fed ship shield modifiers nerf the never ending shields if u wanna fix balance and leave ,the already problematic AI, BoP's alone plz.
U see? we can whine also
now another KDF nerf and i am out of the game srsly dont wanna threat or something just saying my intentions i cant stand to watch me getting nerfed when i am truly balanced and leave others untouched this is not FAIR.
Unfortunately the To'Duj fighters are still bugged like crazy making them useless in STFs...
They have new formations that they fly in that look cool though :^D
-Quiiliitiila
no no you didnt understand me correctly i believe.
I meant the undying pets bug is gone my BOP's they still cant attack stractures in stf's or anywhere else.
They just tweaked a bit their AI so they make better manuevers and shoot a bit better maybe and the MOST IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE IS that they now actually cloack if i recall them...
They are still bugged on attacking stractures and from what i understand this is a hard bug to fix and dont expect any fix anytime soon.
But thats ok for me i understand technical difficulties and i have big patience since u guys work had to solve them i appreciate this.
But did you have to nerf BoP pet dps by the big 20% number?????
Sry and sry again for big texts and lots of nerves coming from me but i rly hate it if i have something then just 1 day some1 decides to take it away just like that without asking community first and without proper planning.
Stop with all the nerfs srsly i cant stand getting nerfed its the worst thing you can do to your customers.
Ok give us rip off useless consoles just to buy the bortas bundle thats ok with me i like the game and i like to pay for it i like the bortas ships i just think their uni consoles are a joke they tottaly doesnt worth wasting any console slot for them..
But nerfing my carriers BOP by 20% come on 20% big difference i just sry and sry again this is getting 2 much for me to a point that u make me think that ''ok klingon scum we got ur money now we nerf you to lure federation nooblet money into our pockets and u can GTFO you and ur carrier and ty for buying cryptic points''
Now instead to sent me msg for trolling and ban me etc etc shut me down and loose me and my friends from customers prove me that is not like that i describe above
Prove me that u actually care for the game and what you do has a point and a goal.
Now the carrier's dps wasnt the best before the nerf with only 6 beams now many tactical abilites that bucket cant deal decent cruiser dps without its pets.
Its pets are supposed to be its prime dps source and nerfing them 20% is overreact if u ask me
ty
At least i expect when u bring fed carrier with 6 weapons slots its pet will deal same dps as my nerfed BoP's right?
But no then no1 will buy it......
It is better to use ToDujs rather than the nerfed BoPs. The reason is simple: ToDujs do more damage.
The BoP 'alpha' strike damage was effectively and completely removed by the new attack run pattern. When before they would hit for 10k per torpedo, firing 2 torpedos per BoP all in the same shield at once (80k damage) they have been nerfed down to 8k damage per torpedo and now use an attack run that for some jackassed reason has them split all over the place and barely get to fire one torpedo ...and each BoP wing hitting a different shield.
From 80k to one shield facing to barely 40~60k striking 2 or 3 different shields. From damn good alpha strike to useless damage.
The ToDujs on the other hand... a swarm of 12 fighters each firing one torpedo every 20 seconds that does 5k damage ...and they all hit the same shield. 60k damage to one shield plus their cannon damage that while light, is constant and hits that very same shield too (id say the swarm does about 8k damage in 20 seconds with its guns).
...and the ToDujs do not have that TRIBBLE 'i choose my own targets and ignore my carrier' TRIBBLE the BoPs still do.
They are supposed to out damage other pets, that's why they are restricted to the underpowered 6-gun space slug that is the Vo'Quv.
I was actually more dissapointed with the 'attack pattern' changes then the damage nerf, then I played my Kar'Fi for a couple days. OMG, I had forgotten how OP that carrier is in comparison to the Vo'Quv.
I like that the BoP now cloak when 'following' the carrier, but they still drop cloak any time they go 'agressive'.
They should not be dropping thier cloak untill the moment before they begin firing. It's the Romulans who like to drop cloak and start launching insults, not the Klingons.
The 'hate list' issues have yet to be adressed. If the carrier is not within 10k of an enemy the BoP will turn and bolt in different directions to other random engagments. Forcing the carrier to recall them and wait 10-15 seconds to find all his pets again.
Aside from the tendancy to blow up faster then you can respawn them, the 'cloak on exit' isn't terrible.
Problem is that they decloak before starting thier next attack run. The 'normal' state for the BoP should be cloaked. After finishing an attack run and evade, they should remain cloaked as they set up the next run.
The next run should not begin untill they are a set distance from target, with nose on target. Then they should drop cloak as they begin firing.
I fly a SCI vessel and noticed that when I'm trying to do additional damage to the gates and transformers my Photonic fleet will materialize and immediately de-materialize unless there is a ship to fight. They totally ignore structures and will disappear almost instantly. Photonic fleets should stick around for a little while as long as you are in combat.
And can you look at Scorpion Fighters? I launch them and never seem to see them again. They seem to go far away (I sometimes seem one stuck in a gate) but I never know if I launched it or someone else.
-Forjo
The To'Duj are attacking the Borg again, albeit with slightly less enthusiasm as before. They will still not attack Borg structures, so whatever that problem is it's still there.
The S'Kul fighters are as peppy as ever, but will not attack structures and seem to miss with their ramming more often then they used to. I'm not saying the explosion missed, I'm saying they fly to hit their target and actually miss it...
The Power Siphon Drones... They're still sick, but I've noticed a decrease in the amount of power they drain.
-Quiiliitiila
This could not have been said better.
The VoQuvs DPS was pretty linked to its BOP IMO.
The BOP was the best of all the Deployable that the VoQuv had available to it and when they worked properly the VoQuv saw great success.
I flew the VoQuv for the longest time till I broke down and tried the KarFi.
The KarFi far surpasses the VoQuv in almost all Carrier aspects.
The KarFi can be deadly with almost any Deployable that it can use.
The Voquv is still gimped when it comes to Weapon slots and turn rate and without its BOP its very hard to get any real damage out of it.
The BOP need to be made useful again so that the VoQuv can still post some DPS.
The VoQuv needs to be updated to at least get the missing forward weapon slot.
A vessel the size of the VoQuv should have 4 x 4 weapon slots.
My S'Kul will attack structures... depending on the launched wave. I've had part of my S'Kul fighters that were launched at the time attack structures, whereas part would fly up to the gate in Cure and sit there while I had a large Nanite structure targeted (they would fly back down to attack probes and spheres once those were targeted). Launching a new wave to replace the ones having tea with the gate usually got the new wave to attack.
Thanks for the correction, I should have said they will not attack the large nanites and gates, but they will attack the small nanite transformers.
Mine will attack the small all the time, it's the large that seems to confuse part of them, with part attacking and part sitting around some of the time.
+1 to 95% of this! Also no tweak this week on the test server for AI?
I thought this day would never come! Many pictures will have to be taken to show the turning point in the timeline... Headline news pets attack big things now!
Now if only my Skul fighters would stop blowing themselves up when I select an ally and the fighters are still in attack mode...
Based on how they are designed to work they are doing what you are telling them too. Pretty much what I would recommend is when you select that ally switch to recall (to you), or escort (the allied target). That's if though the commands are fixed and they actually do what they are supposed to do.