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Bird of Prey Carrier Pet AI
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This has become a very common topic of conversation, so I figured I'd bring you guys into the loop on some recent changes...
I actually just did a round of AI improvements on the BoP Carrier Pet yesterday, and those changes will be making their way to QA very soon. Whether or not they go live in a speedy manner is still up in the air, as the improvements that were made to their powers and AI actually may have made these pets too powerful compared to some other carrier pet options. More balance testing is necessary before the package can be released into the wild.
I actually just did a round of AI improvements on the BoP Carrier Pet yesterday, and those changes will be making their way to QA very soon. Whether or not they go live in a speedy manner is still up in the air, as the improvements that were made to their powers and AI actually may have made these pets too powerful compared to some other carrier pet options. More balance testing is necessary before the package can be released into the wild.
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I would just have to say when it was stated the waves were going to be reduced from 3 to 2 that it was also stated they would retain their offensive power. Although the damage of a 2 hangars with both waves launched does not even do the damage of one pet either fighter or bird of prey or their equivalents. The sad thing is if you removed the energy weapons off of them you wouldn't notice any damage difference because the energy weapons on these pets are too weak and that goes for any pet pretty much doesn't matter if its a carrier, multi vector, or photonic fleet. This topic with pets has been seriously neglected since they became broken.
Your already talking about adding a Fed side carrier. Let that be the counter to having pets that are actually worth something.
I am so sick of Nerfs being the only answer.
ThIs will be like the nerf that hit the Retro borg set. You could have left them intact and just brought the other sets up in power and raised the EDC cost of the borg set.
Finish making them functional before you worry about them being too powerful or too weak. One common thing I've noticed among all games with pets (MMO or otherwise), is that the question of whether a pet skill/ability/trinket/whathaveyou is worth using or not has more to do with the pet's AI and the master's level of control than the abilities the pet actually has. If it runs off and suicides or constantly attacks the wrong target, a summoned pet is an objective liability no matter its stats.
In most mmo's when its viewed as something that will not attract people to make the most money the easiest which in most cases is the laziest choice is what is acted upon which is the nerfing. So sad though the KDF could be a good faction but poor choices and decision making on its part has made it what it is today.
CmdrSkyfaller
on all counts
My fighters and drones are so dumb after they have killed a target they hang in to close and die in the explosion, surely after the kill they would return to the 'nest' as it were.
And also would like to have a display of each pets health so I can heal the fiesty little devils cos once they swarm in behind me on return orders I can't pick they out individually, I'd rather heal than relaunch for the next attack. Also this would tell me how many survivors I have in play - and able me to relaunch at the most opportune time.
its not the pet is too powerful its the torpedoes they have, if 4 bops made an attack run on a cube and it was at full hp and its shield was out in that sector, the torpedoes would literally tear the guts out of the cube to about 45% it's total HP, the same for spheres, probes, other ships. the only improvements that can be made is to make the torpedoes either a little less powerful or bring the fighters up a few notches and improve the ais around stationary objects like transwarp gates and and its healing stations either side (dont remember the name) so they can attack instead of flying nose first at the cubes or stationary targets.
well, we look forward to perhaps seeing the changes you have made. I do not see how they would be OverPowered, unless you added some powers to them. Just basic command AI fix should not be a OP feature, it what we expect it to work as advertised. We do understand, hey sometimes it does, based on the uninmaginable variables that comes with a large complex game enviroment, but hey, we appreciate the effort Neighbor
+1 I support this post.
Im extremely happy to hear that the AI for the BOP is finally getting worked on.
One of the other things thats has always bugged me about the Carriers Hanger Craft is that we have no way to upgrade or boost their performance other than whats stated on their info screens and even if we invest in the skills that are listed there we still cant see anything tangible that shows any improvement to them at all.
It would be nice if the Carrier Pilots were given some incentive to try keep their deployable alive.
Id like it if using the Complete Borg set on any Carrier added the Bonus that our hanger craft would launch out Borgafied.
its what i am afraid of that if the carrier pet BOPs get be nerfed and the whole carrier idea will go straight to hell, its the only source of DPS i get with my carrier mostly because of the very poor ability to turn well and lack of weapon slots. i usually combine it with a sci fleet and its abilities including Gwell, sensorscan and scramble, ships go pop very quickly.
Nothing associated with KDF is ever done in a speedy manner or for that matter at all unless it's a nerf or an iconic tech/ability/trait headed to the other side of the fence.
I find it hard believe that you have made the pets to powerful. Currently the BoP pet's damage is just dreadful combined with last years nurf to the Vo'Quv they need some major help. Most the damage needs to be coming from the pets and let the Vo'Quv focus on support.
The current state of the Vo'Quv is still rough overall.
As they currently sit, BOP pets are very good alpha strikers, but their damage drops off pretty dramatically after that initial attack run. Balancing their burst and sustained damage is of primary importance as we continue to tweak their functionality.
I know that many of you also take issue with the way Carrier commands themselves are set up. This is a matter that's been under internal discussion on a pretty steady basis, even to this day. But altering the way these commands work is a separate matter, detached from these specific AI changes.
That said, we're looking into the apparent bug where one Carrier player sends commands to other players' pets. That's not how the commands are intended to function.
Edited (After Testing): They work ok now except for one thing that really irritates the TRIBBLE out of me since they originally became broken. Any other pet you have pets launched and you have a target selected and you have the attack command highlighted these bop pets do not go after it you have to go into combat range and attack it before they start to engage the target. Other than that they worked ok now.
the attack commands are quite rubbish, attacking stationary targets like a gate or a transformer doesnt work with BOP pets at all, with the 4 smaller transformer nodes, the BOPs attack these. their command after each attack for example ive just destroyed a sphere with the BOPs, then i attack something else, it takes about 10+ seconds for the BOPs to update on what i have targeted next sometimes, or they fly away across the other side of the map to find a target, most probably the opposite gate. this is KA space im writing about as a prime example.
the only command the pets take seriously at all is 'return to hangar' command, but the BOPs dont enter the hanger, they just float around the carrier.
Perhaps if we'd would have had more than the 2.5 days they were on Tribble before hitting Holodeck there would be more feedback.
I got the package deal, I hope it turns out to be worth it.
We'll keep ya informed, believe me.
I guess combining it with the Odysee and Bortas was a little too much. People don't spend that much time on Tribble. I totally forgot about that change...
That ends this week and will use the carriers again soon.
Pretty much from my testing of them the only thing wrong with them right now is the issue where they will not attack a target unless you are fighting it already. Other than that it has come a long way since it became completely unusable.
One big thing: give those BoPs a shield-distribution macro.
Levity aside, I feel that making them smart enough to balance their own shields (have this apply to the Kar'fi frigates too) would be very much appreciated and increase their survivability significantly.
The primary alteration of the BOP's cloak tactics was due to repeated claims that they would improperly utilize Cloak during their attack runs, resulting in a huge drop in their overall DPS. BOP NPCs are built for strafing attack runs, and having them cloak themselves while inbound went in direction violation to their powers, equipment, and many of their AI behaviors. That is the logic that led to the current change.
Increasing their ability to perform efficient and effective alpha-strike attack runs, led us to drop their passive damage boost a notch (it went from +67% to +50% - not a very large change at all).
More changes will be forthcoming until both we as Devs, and you as Players, are satisfied with their usefulness and perceived balance. The more data you all can offer regarding the behavior you would expect from these pets, the better.
And yes, I recognize that it's still difficult to test these while the Carrier commands are less-than-fully-functional. That's something I'm attempting to get fixed as quickly as possible.
While I can't say for certain if the dps has been nerfed I can say OMG they are dying off fast now.
And there has been no improvement of the AI/control issues.
I spawn my BoP, I target an enemy, I click (attack order), my BoP split in go in random directions attacking random targets acrost the map.
The only way I can get them to attack what I tell them to attack is if I am within 10k and firing on said target myself. If I don't issue a recall command when that target is destroyed, they revert to random attack whatever they feel like clear acrost the map.
Send them to attack generators/transformers/gates in STF's and they just fly straight into it and do nothing (this is same for fighters).
Get to many pet style craft on a map and they glitch out.
Change targets after issuing an attack order and they revert to shooting at random things.
If they would simply attack my target PERIOD, I would be happy.
If they would simply attack the target I order them to, and then return to me when that target is dead and await further instruction, I would be happy.
Why they even have a "hate list" I don't understand. Perhaps a "turn off AI" toggle could be employed. Something to disable thier target picking AI.
The change to cloaking is rediculous.
Sure it may seem to make sense in a trek sense, but it does not work with the games mechanics.
As a ballance aspect cloaking makes you extremely vulnerable for a few seconds. That's fine for player controlled ships, but the AI is to dumb, and to weak, to use an egress cloak to it's advantage.
Not to mention having my BoP following me around and begining attack runs uncloaked is just wrong, both in a trek sense, and game mechanic sense.