I'm not entirely sure you can make the Alpha-Torp B´rel work as anything but a tactical captain. Tac captains get a couple abilities that really push up the damage you inflict, and you need most of that damage to punch through shields.
I'd like to think a combination of something that shuts down/drains shield power levels, in combination with something like a pumped up tachyon beam could bring them down enough for the torps to punch through to hull.
But I'm not familiar with Sci captains and their capabilities, so who knows. Also, I think Tachyon Beam would prevent you from recloaking while it was in effect.
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I.K.S. Valkyrja, B'rel Retrofit
Kills since last loss (repeats not listed): USS House of Usher, USS Achilles, USS Van Nassau, USS Stalingrad, USS Iron Maiden, USS Anslinger, USS Momus, USS Amaterasu, USS Slovakia, USS Annabell, USS Hyperion, USS Davie, USS Saratoga /A, USS Liberation, USS Accra, USS Majestic, USS Silent, USS Night of Tears, USS Kendall /X, USS Heisenberg, USS Kratos, USS Simple /D, USS Lairds, USS Memento Mori, USS Cyclone /S, USS Astartes, USS November, USS Bastogne, USS Zeal, USS Feelgood, USS Flying Dutchman, USS Clunge Gunge, USS Excalibur 1 /D, USS Pico /NX, USS Ursus 1, USS Ghost Chili, USS Advanced, USS Vallient
I have read through this thread in it's entirety. And I have to say I am completely impressed with the B'rel Retrofit's Torpedo Boat Design and am thinking of obtaining one for my own use. However I have a question. I know that one of the reasons that you all use two pieces of the Klingon Honor Guard set is to gain a bonus to the Torpedo and Mine Damage Output. But what about the new Ferengi Marauder Set.
Concentrated Tachyon Mine Launcher
Creatures 5 Level 51 Concentrated Tachyon Mines
Deals 434 Damage to Shields per Mine
Increases Damage to Shields from all energy types for 10 seconds per mine
Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console
Universal Console
+11% Mine and Torpedo Damage
+46% Power Transfer Rate
+17 Starship Flow Capacitors
Set Bonuses:
Set 2: Sector Space Tycoon (reduces Energy Credit Prices by 20% at Sector Space Vendors)
Set 3: A Lifetime of Experience (+10% CXP Bonus)
Friends in High Places (Summons a Freighter that allows access to unique duty officer assignments)
I know the set abilities seem pretty useless to the ship. And the Tachyon Mines are probably less than useful. But I figure that at the very least the Rapid Fire Missile Launcher might be worth consideration (thats a huge maybe), and any excuse to gain an additional 11% on the damage that our mines and torpedo's do (the console) seems worth the effort to me, especially since it is a universal console :-/
Well I was thinking of getting a B'Rel for my TAC too, to complete my set of T5 powerhorses and regarding the fact a Klingon just has to have the iconic vessel of the Empire. Kolbrand's impressive demonstrations encouraged me too.
Have to admit I was playing my one and only (ever) FED TOON yesterday to earn the final bits of dil I need, I encountered some torp boats in arena PVP and Kerrat with my Fleet Escort.
It almost broke my heart seeing how poorly those guys did perform against my (random) team and me soloing. In the arena we had Rachael from the Sad Pandas on our side (big thanks to you for taking the lead btw) - I was downed ONCE by beeinged ganged and shot down a B'Rel about three or four times having my BO3 hitting his rear while trying to escape.
In Kerrat a guy (can't remember names, was s.th. spanish) took about 6 attempts one passing me - always the same result - about 1-3% (!!!) in hull loss or my MACO Mk XII shield going slightly red in a direct hit when I failed to take doen the Bio-neural. Pretty much looked like Kolbrand's weapon setup, his timing was rather bad and he did not use fancy Sci tricks though. So this was a blame for this ship especially as it was quite easy for me to take him down a couple of times.
Have to state I am not a pro in PVP which makes this even more sad...
Hope I am lucky enough encountering Kolbrand some day and him being able to convince me to take a try of the B'Rel myself.
Hate to see the feds to laugh about puny attempts.
Since this is such a specialized approach to the BoP, it is very important to get everything right, I can see why people would be easily dissuaded from the torp bop if they messed up in the speccing. When you do get it right though, it is a killer for sure. I am not versed in flying as a sci cap, only as a tac. What weapons are you using?
2 quantum torpedos, 1 bioneural, one transphasic cluster, and two quantum mine launchers with quantum consoles in the tactical slots.
2 quantum torpedos, 1 bioneural, one transphasic cluster, and two quantum mine launchers with quantum consoles in the tactical slots.
Wouldn't it be better to be using at least one Hargh'peng torpedo in place of one of the Quantum Torpedo's? Also, why are you using Quantum Consoles instead of Torpedo Consoles, if you don't mind my asking? I mean I know that you have 4 quantum projectile launchers, but wouldn't the Torpedo Consoles help improve the damage of your transphasics and bioneural weaponry as well as that of your quantum weaponry? I mean I know it may not be worth as much of a damage boost to the quantums, but every little bit helps right? Or am I just missing something?
Wouldn't it be better to be using at least one Hargh'peng torpedo in place of one of the Quantum Torpedo's? Also, why are you using Quantum Consoles instead of Torpedo Consoles, if you don't mind my asking? I mean I know that you have 4 quantum projectile launchers, but wouldn't the Torpedo Consoles help improve the damage of your transphasics and bioneural weaponry as well as that of your quantum weaponry? I mean I know it may not be worth as much of a damage boost to the quantums, but every little bit helps right? Or am I just missing something?
I tried both, although I could go back.
I cannot use Hargh'peng torpedos because I only can craft them on my original Klingon. I tried to make one, but it was bound.
I figured the bonus to the four mine and torpedo launchers that fire on a regular basis would be better than the additional bonus to the bioneural and the transphasic torpedo which rarely fire.
I cannot use Hargh'peng torpedos because I only can craft them on my original Klingon. I tried to make one, but it was bound.
I figured the bonus to the four mine and torpedo launchers that fire on a regular basis would be better than the additional bonus to the bioneural and the transphasic torpedo which rarely fire.
You realize you can get Hargh'peng Torpedo's from the Duty Officer Mission "Obtain Experimental Hargh'Peng Torpedo Launcher"? It is a duty officer mission that is often available in the Eta Eridandi Sector Block. Usually it is obtainable through the Tactical Department Head in that sector, though it has from time to time been available through the main assignment menu. This method of obtaining the Hargh'peng is actually cheaper and easier than obtaining it through crafting, though it can sometimes be more time consuming.
All either from mission or gathered as loot (nothing fancy as XII). Boff setup primally tac oriented since i didn't tag any science skills besides shield ones - with beta 3 dispersal (yes I know it sucks but still it's the only ships which it is not somewhat useless), omega I and 2x Tacteam 2x THighYeald. Scramble sensors, viral or GW - rest healskills.
Ker'rat is my point of destination - there gonna test it out - how much fun can be accomplished and how many feds rage . Only after that will take into consideration spending more on B'rel for already mentioned here build:
KGH XII
Bioneural
Aceton assimilation
Quantiums XI+
Topredo damage consoles
maybe harpeng
But that's a long way to go. Lastly anyone tried B'rel with reman set + plasma THY ? Any sense grinding vault missions?.
You realize you can get Hargh'peng Torpedo's from the Duty Officer Mission "Obtain Experimental Hargh'Peng Torpedo Launcher"? It is a duty officer mission that is often available in the Eta Eridandi Sector Block. Usually it is obtainable through the Tactical Department Head in that sector, though it has from time to time been available through the main assignment menu. This method of obtaining the Hargh'peng is actually cheaper and easier than obtaining it through crafting, though it can sometimes be more time consuming.
Yeah, but this is a tertiary character that is usually parked in Ker'rat and I would be surprised if I even meet the per-requisites for the mission, much less ever see it.
Hopefully the Hargh'pengs will become account-bound when they come out with account banks and I can just craft them for all my characters.
The Transphasic Cluster is something everyone always uses, so it's best to use it in virtually any loadout. Can we have more than one?
The thing is, I also rely heavily on other torpedo types as well, mainly to fill the gaps between THY and Tspread. Yes, I can boost Transphasic damage, but I'd rather also have the ability to fire a Tricobalt and Hargh'peng etc with a significant boost as well. So even if I use Breen items, I'd use Warhead Yield consoles instead of Transphasic (or Trasnphasic, or whatever Cryptic calls them).
I like my Transphasics a lot, but I tend not to load more than 2x Rapid Fire Transphasic & the Breen Cluster... and if I deploy mines, they tend to be Chroniton, Quantum, or Tricobalt (or Breen Cluster, naturally) instead of using Transphasic mine launchers. I'd much rather have a Torpedo launcher aft to fire as I am going out of 10km range.
Buffout: I would think that build using 3x rapid fire transphasics would leave you with cooldown problems. Have you had any success with that build? Because I am unsure if you're going to be able to get enough damage on target.
edit: In other news, I went back to viral matrix in my Ltc Science spot. Much more useful than scramble sensors. Not quite so much fun, though!
Cooldowns are definitely an issue with copies of the same torpedo type. You can get away with it if you run one fore & run the copycat torpedo launcher aft. Otherwise, you're going to lock yourself out with multiple copies of the same thing.
Now, normal Transphasics might not actually be on the same timer as Rapid Fire since the name is different... but I've never cared enough to test it out.
If we had multiple types of Chronitons, I might care. Non-Quantum Quantums? Sign me up! For slow-loading Transphasics? I don't really care enough.
All either from mission or gathered as loot (nothing fancy as XII). Boff setup primally tac oriented since i didn't tag any science skills besides shield ones - with beta 3 dispersal (yes I know it sucks but still it's the only ships which it is not somewhat useless), omega I and 2x Tacteam 2x THighYeald. Scramble sensors, viral or GW - rest healskills.
Ker'rat is my point of destination - there gonna test it out - how much fun can be accomplished and how many feds rage . Only after that will take into consideration spending more on B'rel for already mentioned here build:
KGH XII
Bioneural
Aceton assimilation
Quantiums XI+
Topredo damage consoles
maybe harpeng
But that's a long way to go. Lastly anyone tried B'rel with reman set + plasma THY ? Any sense grinding vault missions?.
While the Breen set may be much easier to get, you're really hurting yourself by going with torps that will overlap on cooldowns as well as having lower burst damage. You want to hit their shields hard enough to bring them down quickly and then start to work on their hull, not rely on transphasics to do damage through their shields.
You should also ditch one instance of Tac Team. You shouldn't be uncloaked long enough to ever need two instances of it. If the problem is just that you don't have anything else to fill the ensign tac slot, swap out your second tac officer. The science abilities are far more useful. They can let you jam a target meaning they won't even see what's coming, give you Polarize Hull to keep you from being tractored (which also means you don't need AtP: Omega), and a lot more utility than you'll get out of tac. From tactical officers I'd say you more or less want torp buffs & that's it. Beta dispersal pattern is pretty questionable too given how mobile PVP tends to be. Gravity Well has never been useful to me except very rarely as a way to force someone to pop a movement cooldown, but even that's only marginally useful.
Keep checking your DOff missions to see if you can get a Hargh'peng. It has a long cooldown & doesn't work with torp buff skills, but it's still worth the slot. It hits hard, has its own cooldown, does radiation damage straight to their hull, and when that expires it hits them with a second explosion straight to their hull. That secondary explosion has been the killing blow for me often enough that I'm glad I picked it up.
One console you should definitely look at grabbing is the Barrier Field Generator from the Phalanx. When you get decloaked & have half a dozen ships chasing you, nothing's better at saving your squishy hull from going pop.
Well that's pretty much what I found out after completing the gear. Never really had more than one torp or a mine launcher on any of my ships so I didn't really knew how this stuff works. That's also why I was so eager to finally try it out.
What I got is instead of hit&run ship a torpedo constant firing slugger. With some torpedo reload Doffs I was able to toss that lemon every 2 - 4 seconds ^^. My ship didn't even cloak couse the firing rate was almost like energy weapon. Bummer.
The bright side is this stuff is dirt cheap in exchange. Especially mines, but no surprises here concidering how useless they are. Havng spare XI KGH set I'll most likely switch to full torp setup with torp damage consoles... sigh. Well to bad couse dispersal beta III looks really impressive ^^.
The question is can i drop standard shield consoles and get something like flowcaps, partickles or countermeasures consoles?
Countermeasure would be good if you don't have any universal consoles to throw in science slots. Pick up the Borg universal console from the mission Assimilation in the Undine chain.
Countermeasure would be good if you don't have any universal consoles to throw in science slots. Pick up the Borg universal console from the mission Assimilation in the Undine chain.
I am always torn on what to place in the science console slots. Right now, I just slot my borg console in there, and a couple stealth consoles.
Are there any which would (noticably) increase the effectiveness of my Jam Sensors, or Viral Matrix?
I fly in Ker'rat. Sadly, I don't get much time to play anymore, otherwise I'd be there more often. I've had to add my kills to each post since they won't fit in my sig anymore. Soon as I get blown up, I can start over though and have some space.
Interesting. You know, when I left a few months after STO came out, I do recall PvPers trying to make a viable Torpedo Boat build. I tried but couldn't get it going right.
As for using the B'Rel refit, very nice touch to maximize everything that the Enhanced Battle Cloak is about.
Edit to add: After watching the OP vids, that was pretty much what we were dreaming of when the game came out. That "dream" stemmed from the idea of the Akira and certain Nebula refits being meant as Torpedo Boats.
So this post got me to open my wallet and purchase some c-points to try this ship out.
i like the silent hunter aspect of this thread..
my question is as i am just starting out is it accentual to have the KHG set?
is there some thing that is comparable that i can use till i grind out the KHG?
what do you guys suggest for a starter configuration?
I solo things in Elite Empire Defense missions without KHG. Now, I haven't tried this in Elite STFs, but I wouldn't do that to my teams when I have a perfectly good Vo'quv.
You need 3x Warhead Yield consoles. Running multiples of the same Torpedo type is going to cause cooldown issues, so Warhead Yield is what you need for Tac consoles.
Starter torpedo config?
Fore:
Photon Torpedo Launcher (more affordable than Quantums, but you need Quantums eventually)
Chroniton Torpedo Launcher (the slowdown helps you)
Rapid Fire Transphasic Launcher (free! If you run 2x Breen set, this gets a slight boost)
Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher
If you have the Bio-Neural Warhead, that needs to go in somewhere. The Mine Launcher can be dumped for something, maybe a Tricobalt Torpedo Launcher, so you don't think about aiming much.
...
I actually use Sci abilities, so all my Sci slots have Particle Generators and/or Graviton Emitters. My Borg Universal console is in Engineering.
I use an RCS console to buff turn rate, but some people might not choose that.
As for other starter gear... the Aegis Engine is meant to run at full speed, so that's what I'd recommend. I use a Sci-type Deflector (something with good Particle & Graviton). Shields? You're unshielded most of the time, so whatever you feel like is good here. Breen items complicate it slightly if you want to use a Rapid Fire Transphasic launcher.
There's nothing I'd really recommend (pre-STF) except the Aegis, which seems to be made for cloaked Torpedo Boats.
I've toyed around alot with the B'Rel Torpedo Boat. Mind you, the gear I outfitted on the ship isn't final, it's a WIP. Since I'm a returning player, I don't have all the new, high end stuff. So beginning with the experiment, I toyed with common, easily available stuff. First things first, my character is a Science officer. But here's what I had to start with.
Starting Out BOFFs Commander - SCI - Transfer Shield Strength 1, Polarized Hull 2, Gravity Well 1 and 3 LtCmdr - TAC - High Yield Torpedo 1 & 3, Torpedo Spread 1 Lt - ENG - Em.Pwr.to Eng 1, Engineer Team 2 Lt - ENG - Engineer Team 1, Emergency Power to Shields 2 Comments: This was the first thing that I finalized with. Big emphasis on Science to hold / slow the target down and hopefully, distract them or cause them to spaz. PH2 and TSS 1 is important for me for when things go bad before I escape and dip back into cloak. Not to mention PH2 for tractor beam escape. TSS 1 is there for when I do linger in a fight longer than I should, and the shields need a boost before I get out of the fight. But to cut down to the chase without making a novel, outside the obvious offense abilities, I put a premium on enough skills for short term survivability, escape, and repairing myself. The ET is of course useful when I zoom by and quickly land a repair on a troubled teammate.
P.S. - I figure one could put a TAC BOFF for the Commander slot. If so, I'd put an Attack Pattern in there to boost attack power up some more. The Science one I'd move to LtCmdr slot, but at least have Gravity Well 1 in there.
P.S.S. - With the beginner setup, you're not going to be dominating the PvP battlefield. You will cause trouble, and a well placed strike punctuated at the end with Tricobalt / Bio-Neural Warhead will be potent. You should be working towards higher end torpedoes, whatever that may be. But with the beginner's setup, you will get the feel of how to operate the B'Rel Torpedo Boat, and that's important.
Forward Weapons
Transphasic x2, Quantum, Bio-Neural Warhead Aft Weapons
Transphasic Mine, Photon Torp Comments: Pretty important to have a variety of torpedoes due to the shared cooldowns. There is a shared CD between torpedoes in general, but it's small. The Transphasic and Quantum weaponry should be easily available at LtGen. The Bio-Neural Warhead is off a C-Store ship, and it is awesome since it is shielded and armored and will shoot towards the target. If you don't want to expend Cryptic Points, Tricobalt Torpedo is a viable, hard hitting, yet cheaper alternative. It can be targetted on the way in and does not have the shields / armor of Bio-Neural Warhead. Regardless, try to send off the Bio-Neural or Tricobalt Torp in close proximity. A warning though: You should NOT have Tricobalt weapons AND Bio-Neural Warhead on the ship, because they share a rather long cooldown. Another warning about the Bio-Neural is that it seems to have a minimum distance to target before you can't fire until more space is between you and the target.
Deflector - Graviton Deflector Array with Particle Gen & Gravity Well add-ons ( [PrtG] and [Gra] ) Comment: Solely to produce better Gravity Well effects.
Tac Consoles - Warhead Yield Chamber x3 Eng Consoles - Injector Assembly, Booster Modulator, Neutronium Alloy Sci Consoles - Graviton Gen, Particle Gen x2 Comment: For the Tac Consoles, due to using a variety of torpedoes, it's critical to use these specific ones since they provide generic Torpedo Damage bonuses. Science? Only to produce stronger Gravity Well effects. Engineer? Not 100% settled. The armor is for insurance for when I do get popped out of stealth or someone gets a lucky shot off at me while I'm escaping. Combine this with Polarize Hull and TSS if shields are back online, and Emergency Power to Engines + Eng.Battery to get me the hell out of danger and dip back into cloak. The other 2 Eng.Consoles though can still be swapped, but I'm content for a boost in Engine & Aux Power. I could do Booster Modulator x2 for more Aux Power. Weapon Power? Minimize it, you don't need it, Torpedoes draw no power like Energy weapons do.
What I now have with weapons after some missions & work: Forward
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo, Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo (cool looking, IMO), Hargh'peng Torpedo, Bio-Neural Warhead Aft is the same as before. Comment: You can do some specific PvE missions to acquire the Rapid Reload Transphasic and Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedoes. I do love the way the Breen Cluster looks inbound to target, and just as important, alot of sh*t on the screen to hopefully distract the enemy even more. I finally acquired the Hargh'peng Torpedo from a DOFF mission in Eta Eridani Sector. The Hargh'peng Torp is an important addition since it does not rely on BOFF abilities like HYT for potency. Just fire, and that's it. So of the 4 launchers up front, 2 do not rely on abilities (the other is Bio-Neural Warhead). The Bio-Neural Warhead stays. I also could switch the Aft Photon for a Quantum. The Transphasic Mines are to be released as close as possible to the target.
Still practicing my attack runs and timing. The various weapon releases need more attention than the average Escort attack run because you're dealing with a wide variety of torpedoes and weapon travel speeds. I do want to get the level of ownage that the OP does though. That's my ideal :cool:
The general intent is to maximize the Enhanced Battlefield Cloak unique to the B'Rel Refit. You drop out of cloak when releasing weapons, and back into cloak soon. The ideal is to overwhelm the senses of the target by having him consider way too many things. Gravity Well, alot of torpedoes incoming, alot of Transphasic Mines dropping (Breen Cluster + Mine Launcher). The Bio-Neural acts as the final, killer blow. All this acts to try to overwhelm the target, and if it doesn't work, it should distract him enough for you to escape and recloak. Also, the importance of all those Transphasic Mines being dropped (launcher and Breen Cluster) is that these individually targetable mines mask the incoming Bio-Neural Warhead / Tricobalt Torpedo (if that's the route you take) so that they strike with impunity. The armor and shields of the Bio-Neural Warhead is added insurance that the payload gets to the target unmolested.
Lastly, compared to even "traditional" BoP flying, the B'Rel Torpedo Boat I fly stays cloaked like 98% of the time. The only time the cloak comes off is when I release torpedoes. But you don't need to manually turn it off, it does it on its own, and recloaks you 3 seconds after you stop firing your torpedoes. Dropping mines does not decloak you, if that's what you only intend to do for the moment. Activating certain skills that land an effect on a target will drop the cloak as if firing, such as Gravity Well.
It's a fun build, IMO. Like I said, I'm not in the level of striking power as the OP, but I can get some devastating strikes in and annihalate an unwary cruiser if I get all my ducks lined up right. It flies very differently even from the already unique style of general BoP's.
Last night i finished the breen mission so i got the breen set as well as the cluster torp.
so i have everything but the borg console and all the STF stuff.
Kolbrand makes it look easy.
i continue to work on my timing while work on getting the aegis set then start on the stf stuff
So this post got me to open my wallet and purchase some c-points to try this ship out.
i like the silent hunter aspect of this thread..
my question is as i am just starting out is it accentual to have the KHG set?
is there some thing that is comparable that i can use till i grind out the KHG?
what do you guys suggest for a starter configuration?
The reason you want the KHG set is that it give you +25% to your torpedo damage.
There is not gear out there that can give you this to all of your different types of torpedoes.
He makes it look so easy O.o Having acquired all the goods (some of marginally better quality too) I cant, for the life of me, work out how the hell you get the shields to drop in a single volley. I can't even get them to drop to 50%....
AP:Alpha, Omega3, TT, (even when I use GDF and TF) followed by opening fire with a HY3 Quantum XII, Cluster torp and Peng. Everything slams into one shield facing, they use no abilities and voila... shield has barely moved
I'm using a Trico currently instead of a Bio-Neural but that damage to Hull should be pretty noticeable. I just can't scratch shields at all with this build.
What am I missing?
I'm tempted to bring in some Tachyon beams to help but I've never had them manage to do anything useful.
Comments
I'd like to think a combination of something that shuts down/drains shield power levels, in combination with something like a pumped up tachyon beam could bring them down enough for the torps to punch through to hull.
But I'm not familiar with Sci captains and their capabilities, so who knows. Also, I think Tachyon Beam would prevent you from recloaking while it was in effect.
ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ
I.K.S. Valkyrja, B'rel Retrofit
Kills since last loss (repeats not listed): USS House of Usher, USS Achilles, USS Van Nassau, USS Stalingrad, USS Iron Maiden, USS Anslinger, USS Momus, USS Amaterasu, USS Slovakia, USS Annabell, USS Hyperion, USS Davie, USS Saratoga /A, USS Liberation, USS Accra, USS Majestic, USS Silent, USS Night of Tears, USS Kendall /X, USS Heisenberg, USS Kratos, USS Simple /D, USS Lairds, USS Memento Mori, USS Cyclone /S, USS Astartes, USS November, USS Bastogne, USS Zeal, USS Feelgood, USS Flying Dutchman, USS Clunge Gunge, USS Excalibur 1 /D, USS Pico /NX, USS Ursus 1, USS Ghost Chili, USS Advanced, USS Vallient
Lifetime Losses: 1 (lag/disconnect)
Rapid Fire Missile Launcher
Kinetic Damage
180 degree targeting arc
892 Kinetic Damage (357 DPS)
+20% Accuracy
Concentrated Tachyon Mine Launcher
Creatures 5 Level 51 Concentrated Tachyon Mines
Deals 434 Damage to Shields per Mine
Increases Damage to Shields from all energy types for 10 seconds per mine
Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console
Universal Console
+11% Mine and Torpedo Damage
+46% Power Transfer Rate
+17 Starship Flow Capacitors
Set Bonuses:
Set 2: Sector Space Tycoon (reduces Energy Credit Prices by 20% at Sector Space Vendors)
Set 3: A Lifetime of Experience (+10% CXP Bonus)
Friends in High Places (Summons a Freighter that allows access to unique duty officer assignments)
I know the set abilities seem pretty useless to the ship. And the Tachyon Mines are probably less than useful. But I figure that at the very least the Rapid Fire Missile Launcher might be worth consideration (thats a huge maybe), and any excuse to gain an additional 11% on the damage that our mines and torpedo's do (the console) seems worth the effort to me, especially since it is a universal console :-/
Have to admit I was playing my one and only (ever) FED TOON yesterday to earn the final bits of dil I need, I encountered some torp boats in arena PVP and Kerrat with my Fleet Escort.
It almost broke my heart seeing how poorly those guys did perform against my (random) team and me soloing. In the arena we had Rachael from the Sad Pandas on our side (big thanks to you for taking the lead btw) - I was downed ONCE by beeinged ganged and shot down a B'Rel about three or four times having my BO3 hitting his rear while trying to escape.
In Kerrat a guy (can't remember names, was s.th. spanish) took about 6 attempts one passing me - always the same result - about 1-3% (!!!) in hull loss or my MACO Mk XII shield going slightly red in a direct hit when I failed to take doen the Bio-neural. Pretty much looked like Kolbrand's weapon setup, his timing was rather bad and he did not use fancy Sci tricks though. So this was a blame for this ship especially as it was quite easy for me to take him down a couple of times.
Have to state I am not a pro in PVP which makes this even more sad...
Hope I am lucky enough encountering Kolbrand some day and him being able to convince me to take a try of the B'Rel myself.
Hate to see the feds to laugh about puny attempts.
2 quantum torpedos, 1 bioneural, one transphasic cluster, and two quantum mine launchers with quantum consoles in the tactical slots.
Wouldn't it be better to be using at least one Hargh'peng torpedo in place of one of the Quantum Torpedo's? Also, why are you using Quantum Consoles instead of Torpedo Consoles, if you don't mind my asking? I mean I know that you have 4 quantum projectile launchers, but wouldn't the Torpedo Consoles help improve the damage of your transphasics and bioneural weaponry as well as that of your quantum weaponry? I mean I know it may not be worth as much of a damage boost to the quantums, but every little bit helps right? Or am I just missing something?
I tried both, although I could go back.
I cannot use Hargh'peng torpedos because I only can craft them on my original Klingon. I tried to make one, but it was bound.
I figured the bonus to the four mine and torpedo launchers that fire on a regular basis would be better than the additional bonus to the bioneural and the transphasic torpedo which rarely fire.
You realize you can get Hargh'peng Torpedo's from the Duty Officer Mission "Obtain Experimental Hargh'Peng Torpedo Launcher"? It is a duty officer mission that is often available in the Eta Eridandi Sector Block. Usually it is obtainable through the Tactical Department Head in that sector, though it has from time to time been available through the main assignment menu. This method of obtaining the Hargh'peng is actually cheaper and easier than obtaining it through crafting, though it can sometimes be more time consuming.
I've been quite interested in torpboat myself for some time. As in process of gathering CP for B'rel i've planned to start with poor man's setup:
Breen set
3x rapid reload transphasic torps
1x cluster transphasic torps
2x transphasic mine
transphasic projectile damage tac consoles.
All either from mission or gathered as loot (nothing fancy as XII). Boff setup primally tac oriented since i didn't tag any science skills besides shield ones - with beta 3 dispersal (yes I know it sucks but still it's the only ships which it is not somewhat useless), omega I and 2x Tacteam 2x THighYeald. Scramble sensors, viral or GW - rest healskills.
Ker'rat is my point of destination - there gonna test it out - how much fun can be accomplished and how many feds rage
KGH XII
Bioneural
Aceton assimilation
Quantiums XI+
Topredo damage consoles
maybe harpeng
But that's a long way to go. Lastly anyone tried B'rel with reman set + plasma THY ? Any sense grinding vault missions?.
Yeah, but this is a tertiary character that is usually parked in Ker'rat and I would be surprised if I even meet the per-requisites for the mission, much less ever see it.
Hopefully the Hargh'pengs will become account-bound when they come out with account banks and I can just craft them for all my characters.
This is also something I've thought about.
The Transphasic Cluster is something everyone always uses, so it's best to use it in virtually any loadout. Can we have more than one?
The thing is, I also rely heavily on other torpedo types as well, mainly to fill the gaps between THY and Tspread. Yes, I can boost Transphasic damage, but I'd rather also have the ability to fire a Tricobalt and Hargh'peng etc with a significant boost as well. So even if I use Breen items, I'd use Warhead Yield consoles instead of Transphasic (or Trasnphasic, or whatever Cryptic calls them).
I like my Transphasics a lot, but I tend not to load more than 2x Rapid Fire Transphasic & the Breen Cluster... and if I deploy mines, they tend to be Chroniton, Quantum, or Tricobalt (or Breen Cluster, naturally) instead of using Transphasic mine launchers. I'd much rather have a Torpedo launcher aft to fire as I am going out of 10km range.
edit: In other news, I went back to viral matrix in my Ltc Science spot. Much more useful than scramble sensors. Not quite so much fun, though!
Now, normal Transphasics might not actually be on the same timer as Rapid Fire since the name is different... but I've never cared enough to test it out.
If we had multiple types of Chronitons, I might care. Non-Quantum Quantums? Sign me up! For slow-loading Transphasics? I don't really care enough.
anyone up for a challenge??
While the Breen set may be much easier to get, you're really hurting yourself by going with torps that will overlap on cooldowns as well as having lower burst damage. You want to hit their shields hard enough to bring them down quickly and then start to work on their hull, not rely on transphasics to do damage through their shields.
You should also ditch one instance of Tac Team. You shouldn't be uncloaked long enough to ever need two instances of it. If the problem is just that you don't have anything else to fill the ensign tac slot, swap out your second tac officer. The science abilities are far more useful. They can let you jam a target meaning they won't even see what's coming, give you Polarize Hull to keep you from being tractored (which also means you don't need AtP: Omega), and a lot more utility than you'll get out of tac. From tactical officers I'd say you more or less want torp buffs & that's it. Beta dispersal pattern is pretty questionable too given how mobile PVP tends to be. Gravity Well has never been useful to me except very rarely as a way to force someone to pop a movement cooldown, but even that's only marginally useful.
Keep checking your DOff missions to see if you can get a Hargh'peng. It has a long cooldown & doesn't work with torp buff skills, but it's still worth the slot. It hits hard, has its own cooldown, does radiation damage straight to their hull, and when that expires it hits them with a second explosion straight to their hull. That secondary explosion has been the killing blow for me often enough that I'm glad I picked it up.
One console you should definitely look at grabbing is the Barrier Field Generator from the Phalanx. When you get decloaked & have half a dozen ships chasing you, nothing's better at saving your squishy hull from going pop.
What I got is instead of hit&run ship a torpedo constant firing slugger. With some torpedo reload Doffs I was able to toss that lemon every 2 - 4 seconds ^^. My ship didn't even cloak couse the firing rate was almost like energy weapon. Bummer.
Correction:
Breen set
1xHar'peng
1xtransphasic / chroniton
1xquantium / tricobalt
1x cluster transphasic torps
2x transphasic mine
transphasic projectile damage tac consoles.
The bright side is this stuff is dirt cheap in exchange. Especially mines, but no surprises here concidering how useless they are. Havng spare XI KGH set I'll most likely switch to full torp setup with torp damage consoles... sigh. Well to bad couse dispersal beta III looks really impressive ^^.
The question is can i drop standard shield consoles and get something like flowcaps, partickles or countermeasures consoles?
I am always torn on what to place in the science console slots. Right now, I just slot my borg console in there, and a couple stealth consoles.
Are there any which would (noticably) increase the effectiveness of my Jam Sensors, or Viral Matrix?
To my knowledge there's no Subspace Decompiler console, which is what would improve the disable length of Viral Matrix.
As for using the B'Rel refit, very nice touch to maximize everything that the Enhanced Battle Cloak is about.
Edit to add: After watching the OP vids, that was pretty much what we were dreaming of when the game came out. That "dream" stemmed from the idea of the Akira and certain Nebula refits being meant as Torpedo Boats.
i like the silent hunter aspect of this thread..
my question is as i am just starting out is it accentual to have the KHG set?
is there some thing that is comparable that i can use till i grind out the KHG?
what do you guys suggest for a starter configuration?
You need 3x Warhead Yield consoles. Running multiples of the same Torpedo type is going to cause cooldown issues, so Warhead Yield is what you need for Tac consoles.
Starter torpedo config?
Fore:
Photon Torpedo Launcher (more affordable than Quantums, but you need Quantums eventually)
Chroniton Torpedo Launcher (the slowdown helps you)
Rapid Fire Transphasic Launcher (free! If you run 2x Breen set, this gets a slight boost)
Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher
Aft:
Quantum or Chroniton Mine Launcher (doesn't break cloak, unlike Torpedos)
Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher
...
If you have the Bio-Neural Warhead, that needs to go in somewhere. The Mine Launcher can be dumped for something, maybe a Tricobalt Torpedo Launcher, so you don't think about aiming much.
...
I actually use Sci abilities, so all my Sci slots have Particle Generators and/or Graviton Emitters. My Borg Universal console is in Engineering.
I use an RCS console to buff turn rate, but some people might not choose that.
As for other starter gear... the Aegis Engine is meant to run at full speed, so that's what I'd recommend. I use a Sci-type Deflector (something with good Particle & Graviton). Shields? You're unshielded most of the time, so whatever you feel like is good here. Breen items complicate it slightly if you want to use a Rapid Fire Transphasic launcher.
There's nothing I'd really recommend (pre-STF) except the Aegis, which seems to be made for cloaked Torpedo Boats.
Starting Out
BOFFs
Commander - SCI - Transfer Shield Strength 1, Polarized Hull 2, Gravity Well 1 and 3
LtCmdr - TAC - High Yield Torpedo 1 & 3, Torpedo Spread 1
Lt - ENG - Em.Pwr.to Eng 1, Engineer Team 2
Lt - ENG - Engineer Team 1, Emergency Power to Shields 2
Comments: This was the first thing that I finalized with. Big emphasis on Science to hold / slow the target down and hopefully, distract them or cause them to spaz. PH2 and TSS 1 is important for me for when things go bad before I escape and dip back into cloak. Not to mention PH2 for tractor beam escape. TSS 1 is there for when I do linger in a fight longer than I should, and the shields need a boost before I get out of the fight. But to cut down to the chase without making a novel, outside the obvious offense abilities, I put a premium on enough skills for short term survivability, escape, and repairing myself. The ET is of course useful when I zoom by and quickly land a repair on a troubled teammate.
P.S. - I figure one could put a TAC BOFF for the Commander slot. If so, I'd put an Attack Pattern in there to boost attack power up some more. The Science one I'd move to LtCmdr slot, but at least have Gravity Well 1 in there.
P.S.S. - With the beginner setup, you're not going to be dominating the PvP battlefield. You will cause trouble, and a well placed strike punctuated at the end with Tricobalt / Bio-Neural Warhead will be potent. You should be working towards higher end torpedoes, whatever that may be. But with the beginner's setup, you will get the feel of how to operate the B'Rel Torpedo Boat, and that's important.
Forward Weapons
Transphasic x2, Quantum, Bio-Neural Warhead
Aft Weapons
Transphasic Mine, Photon Torp
Comments: Pretty important to have a variety of torpedoes due to the shared cooldowns. There is a shared CD between torpedoes in general, but it's small. The Transphasic and Quantum weaponry should be easily available at LtGen. The Bio-Neural Warhead is off a C-Store ship, and it is awesome since it is shielded and armored and will shoot towards the target. If you don't want to expend Cryptic Points, Tricobalt Torpedo is a viable, hard hitting, yet cheaper alternative. It can be targetted on the way in and does not have the shields / armor of Bio-Neural Warhead. Regardless, try to send off the Bio-Neural or Tricobalt Torp in close proximity. A warning though: You should NOT have Tricobalt weapons AND Bio-Neural Warhead on the ship, because they share a rather long cooldown. Another warning about the Bio-Neural is that it seems to have a minimum distance to target before you can't fire until more space is between you and the target.
Deflector - Graviton Deflector Array with Particle Gen & Gravity Well add-ons ( [PrtG] and [Gra] )
Comment: Solely to produce better Gravity Well effects.
Tac Consoles - Warhead Yield Chamber x3
Eng Consoles - Injector Assembly, Booster Modulator, Neutronium Alloy
Sci Consoles - Graviton Gen, Particle Gen x2
Comment: For the Tac Consoles, due to using a variety of torpedoes, it's critical to use these specific ones since they provide generic Torpedo Damage bonuses. Science? Only to produce stronger Gravity Well effects. Engineer? Not 100% settled. The armor is for insurance for when I do get popped out of stealth or someone gets a lucky shot off at me while I'm escaping. Combine this with Polarize Hull and TSS if shields are back online, and Emergency Power to Engines + Eng.Battery to get me the hell out of danger and dip back into cloak. The other 2 Eng.Consoles though can still be swapped, but I'm content for a boost in Engine & Aux Power. I could do Booster Modulator x2 for more Aux Power. Weapon Power? Minimize it, you don't need it, Torpedoes draw no power like Energy weapons do.
What I now have with weapons after some missions & work:
Forward
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo, Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo (cool looking, IMO), Hargh'peng Torpedo, Bio-Neural Warhead
Aft is the same as before.
Comment: You can do some specific PvE missions to acquire the Rapid Reload Transphasic and Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedoes. I do love the way the Breen Cluster looks inbound to target, and just as important, alot of sh*t on the screen to hopefully distract the enemy even more. I finally acquired the Hargh'peng Torpedo from a DOFF mission in Eta Eridani Sector. The Hargh'peng Torp is an important addition since it does not rely on BOFF abilities like HYT for potency. Just fire, and that's it. So of the 4 launchers up front, 2 do not rely on abilities (the other is Bio-Neural Warhead). The Bio-Neural Warhead stays. I also could switch the Aft Photon for a Quantum. The Transphasic Mines are to be released as close as possible to the target.
Still practicing my attack runs and timing. The various weapon releases need more attention than the average Escort attack run because you're dealing with a wide variety of torpedoes and weapon travel speeds. I do want to get the level of ownage that the OP does though. That's my ideal :cool:
The general intent is to maximize the Enhanced Battlefield Cloak unique to the B'Rel Refit. You drop out of cloak when releasing weapons, and back into cloak soon. The ideal is to overwhelm the senses of the target by having him consider way too many things. Gravity Well, alot of torpedoes incoming, alot of Transphasic Mines dropping (Breen Cluster + Mine Launcher). The Bio-Neural acts as the final, killer blow. All this acts to try to overwhelm the target, and if it doesn't work, it should distract him enough for you to escape and recloak. Also, the importance of all those Transphasic Mines being dropped (launcher and Breen Cluster) is that these individually targetable mines mask the incoming Bio-Neural Warhead / Tricobalt Torpedo (if that's the route you take) so that they strike with impunity. The armor and shields of the Bio-Neural Warhead is added insurance that the payload gets to the target unmolested.
Lastly, compared to even "traditional" BoP flying, the B'Rel Torpedo Boat I fly stays cloaked like 98% of the time. The only time the cloak comes off is when I release torpedoes. But you don't need to manually turn it off, it does it on its own, and recloaks you 3 seconds after you stop firing your torpedoes. Dropping mines does not decloak you, if that's what you only intend to do for the moment. Activating certain skills that land an effect on a target will drop the cloak as if firing, such as Gravity Well.
It's a fun build, IMO. Like I said, I'm not in the level of striking power as the OP, but I can get some devastating strikes in and annihalate an unwary cruiser if I get all my ducks lined up right. It flies very differently even from the already unique style of general BoP's.
so i have everything but the borg console and all the STF stuff.
Kolbrand makes it look easy.
i continue to work on my timing while work on getting the aegis set then start on the stf stuff
thank guys for the inspiration
criptic owes you a commission
There is not gear out there that can give you this to all of your different types of torpedoes.
It's worth it.
Could use the 2/3 Breen set with Transphasic Torps till you get the KHG, but I'd just skip it and get 4/4 Borg till KHG.
Im using the breen set now i am thinking of using the jemhadar set for the shield debuf.
nothing prettier than a bop with a pink con trial.:cool:
AP:Alpha, Omega3, TT, (even when I use GDF and TF) followed by opening fire with a HY3 Quantum XII, Cluster torp and Peng. Everything slams into one shield facing, they use no abilities and voila... shield has barely moved
I'm using a Trico currently instead of a Bio-Neural but that damage to Hull should be pretty noticeable. I just can't scratch shields at all with this build.
What am I missing?
I'm tempted to bring in some Tachyon beams to help but I've never had them manage to do anything useful.