Yeah I did fly one back in the day, as an engineer no less. No, there weren't any nerfs to the bop, it's the same as it was. The B'rel was nerfed horribly shortly before it was made available to the public, and that's only been fixed recently.
I'll say it again, it's really not the ship's fault. The hegta and the now unnerfed brel are great ships and always have been great ships. The hegta's never changed since launch.
What's changed is the addition of very powerful fed ships. There's a reason the mvam, defiant, intrepid, and excelsior are flown in pvp.
If you require an in game fleet demonstration on how to fly a bop, then the pandas will be glad to give you and your crew a challenge. Or fly with me and let's duo for a few matches. No, I'm not saying you're a bad pilot, but you do have some misdirected disdain for the ship you fly.
Just because the feds are now flying better ships does not mean your ship's bantha poo doo. It's a great ship, always has been, and yes, I've been flying klingon since season 1. Again, if you require a 5v5 demonstration on just how to fly a ******* bop, then the pandas are always here.
Just for the record: The Hegh'ta visuals were changed (and not in a good way)^^ so you cant say its the same (even after a year and a half I still HATE this changes :mad:
I actually don't think the BoP was ever nerfed specifically, just not ever buffed from the origonal stats it has had for the longest time which exist to represent its design use of Battle Cloak and U-slots.
It has been constantly becried as OP though it is one of the most unchanged ships in the game.
The BoP got a lot of indirect nerfs...
- cannon changes (long ago I know...)... before it was easier to bring down the enemy faster. Now he has more time to shoot back, and a ship with that little hull and shields naturally suffers much more from that changes then...others.
- Prometheus: One of the BOPs benefits are its universal slots. The federation might not have uni slots but they come clother and clother to simply beeing able to choose their exact bo layout by ship choice, so if every possible combination is available the uni slots are not really an advantage any more.
The MVA-Prometheus has, for example, prety exactly the BO layout MANY BoPs fly arround with.
- Defaint: Cloak was a Klingon perk once... not any more. Of course it hits the Raptor more, since the defaint is a buffed copy of it, and of course we still have the BC on the BoPs, but still it reduces its advatandge.
- Shield nerfs: that one is prety obvious, A ship wirth such low hull and shield modificators depends more then anything from every singel shield point.
So, like with the cannons, the nerf of covariant shield hits the BoPs more then other escots or any other ship.
- Cloak detection.... IMO needs no explanation
- any sci nerf.... Many BoPs have a heavy sci orientet build.
So every nerf on sci abiltys like it happened to the VM (although admiditly necessary), Scramble sensors just yesterday (of course the change was needet, its still a nerf), or the nerf of the old sci consoles lowered the BoPs value.
Sci ships got buffs, BoPs not.
And I'm prety sure i have forgotten some details.
On the other Hand you COULD consider the new p2w... I mean "+1" consoles a BoP buff since they are able to carry KDF-sci-consoles, Destroyer consoles AND raider consoles.
That of course fits into the concept of a multifunction-ship that that is representet by the uni slots, (and it would actually be more consequent to allow them to carry cruiser consoles, too), but STILL, I dint thing, once the new ships hit holodeck, any other ship will have that much choice.
Downside, of course: you have to pay for win... ahhh I mean pay for that.
So I'd really like to see some BoP buffs... especially on the hull strength.
Arenas are the best place to settle disputes, bring whatever ship and fleet you want, man. I'm a B'rel pilot, it should be very easy to shoot me down since you have the upper hand right?
Better ship or not, nobody questions that you are a good pvper, the average KDF player is STILL better then the avarage Fed player, .... Magnum Star seems to be kind of new (no offense intendet), and you seem to be one of the older =better players.... you'd probably beat him with a t3 ship; that wouldnt proof the t3 ship beeing better then the t5
I'm not saying back down, change your stance or anything that is meant to alter your belief structure in this, just that gx4th is not a troll nor a unknowing BoP pilot.
We are Klingon fans. Its always easy to get our back-hair up.
and we fight amongst ourselves as easily as we do against outsiders - it happens.
The trading of insults and mud-slinging is all on the two of you.
Your grown men and can settle it, just wanted you to know that gx4th is not without experience (lots of it).
Just like you would not walk into a bar and knock the 1%-ter off his stool without knowing what you are getting into, I felt you might take it more seriuosly if someone let you know that gx4th does not speak idlely.
Defending yourself against what you think is insulting is your right, I will not stop you from speaking your mind and from what I know of gx4th, he is able to take as much as what he dishes out.
Back to the Thread though.
Yes, I too would like to see the BoP get adjusted to keep pace with the influx of new ships and the raising of the bar that such may entail.
Otherwise gx4th is right the BoP, as is, is a very effective vessel and thats the reason I have always come back to it.
Besides I think this whole debacle may be over a missunderstanding.
You wish to see the BoP perform as it has been shown to do so in the genre.
gx4th says it does if you take the time to pratice and use it properly.
LOL- and fedfans ask, " How can the Klingon society revolve around inhouse fighting amongst themselves , it seems like it would be counter-productive? " yet, for Klingons it works.
Makes me wonder what the Klingon Academy debate team must be like.
" debate rules:
Formal declaration of pro-postion followed by a rebutal from the con-side and bath'leths
My suggestion would be , set aside the ego and ask gx4th to demostrate proper BoP use in the ques for you to help you overcome some of its shortcommings.
Teaming and teamwork used to be the big thing for the KDF and is why many feds have thought us and the BoP to be OP in the past.
Fight and settle things amongst yourself but remember the real enemy is at ESD.
Better ship or not, nobody questions that you are a good pvper, the average KDF player is STILL better then the avarage Fed player, .... Magnum Star seems to be kind of new (no offense intendet), and you seem to be one of the older =better players.... you'd probably beat him with a t3 ship; that wouldnt proof the t3 ship beeing better then the t5
He does seem to be a new STO pvp'er, and if he were to go up with us or against us, hopefully that would clue him in as to just how flexible the bops can be. It's not about who's better or worse or what ship is OP / UP. It's about opening someone to new possibilities.
And who cares if the feds have better ships? Cryptic doesn't care about ship balance or else they wouldn't have made cruiser AMS, intrepid ablative, defiant superior turn rate, or the MVAM which is in all respects a fed BoP.
It all comes down to pilot and team. That's it. Who gives a TRIBBLE if your opponent is using chain scrams or AMS, you still have to fight them in that match.
My suggestion would be , set aside the ego and ask gx4th to demostrate proper BoP use
Isn't that what it's all about though? So many ways to fly it, it's like building a ship of your own.
This is just 1 build I like It's not the best, or the worst, it's just what works for me. I'm just sick of ppl trying to pigeon-hole the bop into something and just complain it's UP when it doesn't live up to their expectations.
And who cares if the feds have better ships? Cryptic doesn't care about ship balance or else they wouldn't have made cruiser AMS, intrepid ablative, defiant superior turn rate, or the MVAM which is in all respects a fed BoP.
It all comes down to pilot and team. That's it. Who gives a TRIBBLE if your opponent is using chain scrams or AMS, you still have to fight them in that match.
Thats just right until the fed team is AS GOOD as the KDF team.
Sure, usually we ARE better because of having the better pilots and teamwork, but as soon as we meet a fed team that is as good...and there EXIST good fed teams too... if they have better ships and/or toys like the AMS.. they win.
Still... that doesnt happen too often^^
LOL- and fedfans ask, " How can the Klingon society revolve around inhouse fighting amongst themselves , it seems like it would be counter-productive? " yet, for Klingons it works.
Makes me wonder what the Klingon Academy debate team must be like.
" debate rules:
Formal declaration of pro-postion followed by a rebutal from the con-side and bath'leths
My suggestion would be , set aside the ego and ask gx4th to demostrate proper BoP use in the ques for you to help you overcome some of its shortcommings.
Teaming and teamwork used to be the big thing for the KDF and is why many feds have thought us and the BoP to be OP in the past.
Fight and settle things amongst yourself but remember the real enemy is at ESD.
Are real enemy is Cryptics Fed bias. Sorry no matter what you say gx4th is a coward no matter how good he is at PvP. In my group the debate rules you stated are actually how things are setttled within my group, lol, only its usually fists. In my group, like the Klingons, the only way to ensure you receive the proper respect from another person is to fight it out.
Thats just right until the fed team is AS GOOD as the KDF team.
Sure, usually we ARE better because of having the better pilots and teamwork, but as soon as we meet a fed team that is as good...and there EXIST good fed teams too... if they have better ships and/or toys like the AMS.. they win.
Still... that doesnt happen too often^^
Isn't it more satisfying when you beat TSI, RE, SOB, etc. etc. etc. when you're on the KDF though
Isn't it more satisfying when you beat TSI, RE, SOB, etc. etc. etc. when you're on the KDF though
Well I cant deny that it is kind of a pleasure that, no matter how much the feds get buffed and we get nefed we still kick their a**.... at least for a while... but after some time... I want some new toys to play with, too.
Well I cant deny that it is kind of a pleasure that, no matter how much the feds get buffed and we get nefed we still kick their a**.... at least for a while... but after some time... I want some new toys to play with, too.
Well I cant deny that it is kind of a pleasure that, no matter how much the feds get buffed and we get nefed we still kick their a**.... at least for a while... but after some time... I want some new toys to play with, too.
We are getting buffed, in the sense that we're getting new toys in C-store (lol). Who cares about the ships, it's the consoles that are truly powerful. it's pay2have-an-advantage, sure, but it's cryptic. They're not going to change their philosophies anytime soon.
Are real enemy is Cryptics Fed bias. Sorry no matter what you say gx4th is a coward no matter how good he is at PvP. In my group the debate rules you stated are actually how things are setttled within my group, lol, only its usually fists. In my group, like the Klingons, the only way to ensure you receive the proper respect from another person is to fight it out.
You know that saying "if you keep repeating something loudly, chances are it's not true?" It's like saying you have a big torpedo. Are you overcompensating?
We are getting buffed, in the sense that we're getting new toys in C-store (lol). Who cares about the ships, it's the consoles that are truly powerful. it's pay2have-an-advantage, sure, but it's cryptic. They're not going to change their philosophies anytime soon.
Sorry no matter what you say gx4th is a coward no matter how good he is at PvP. In my group the debate rules you stated are actually how things are setttled within my group, lol, only its usually fists. In my group, like the Klingons, the only way to ensure you receive the proper respect from another person is to fight it out.
You know that saying "if you keep repeating something loudly, chances are it's not true?" It's like saying you have a big torpedo. Are you overcompensating?
Can you please calm down and stop that pointless disagreement?
I do not relly care who is right or wrong here... there is just no point in arguing.... especially since you do not even argue on any real subject any more..
Can you please calm down and stop that pointless disagreement?
I'm not saying you or he are wrong... there is just no point in arguing.
Yeah you're right. I'll just look for him in the Queues. Fun times to be had tonight and every night. I love hunting.
One thing to note with the consoles. Anything that can be outfitted to raptors or sci vessels can be outfitted to bops. That's a very good thing right there. The c-store payout is TRIBBLE, but there will undoubtedly some purchasers of it. I'm keen on the shield warp plasma console myself.
You know that saying "if you keep repeating something loudly, chances are it's not true?" It's like saying you have a big torpedo. Are you overcompensating?
Just informing you how true men settle their differences and not by snide comments on the forum. So far I haven't heard you say this is how you'd like to settle it, even though it maybe impossible to do so. But that lets me know you usually dont insult people to their face but from behind their backs, on forums, chat, or any other form of coommunication that keeps you safe and the insulted from harming you. A coward is as a coward does is another old saying and so far you've proven it true.
This will be my last reply to you since you are baiting me into committing the same troll cowardice you are doing, since I can't retalaite in the proper manly fashion I will refrain from responding in kind to you.
Just informing you how true men settle their differences and not by snide comments on the forum. So far I haven't heard you say this is how you'd like to settle it, even though it maybe impossible to do so. But that lets me know you usually dont insult people to their face but from behind their backs, on forums, chat, or any other form of coommunication that keeps you safe and the insulted from harming you. A coward is as a coward does is another old saying and so far you've proven it true.
This will be my last reply to you since you are baiting me into committing the same troll cowardice you are doing, since I can't retalaite in the proper manly fashion I will refrain from responding in kind to you.
Can you please calm down and stop that pointless disagreement?
I do not relly care who is right or wrong here... there is just no point in arguing.... especially since you do not even argue on any real subject any more..
I agree with First and I'll just hunt for you in the queues
One thing to note with the consoles. Anything that can be outfitted to raptors or sci vessels can be outfitted to bops. That's a very good thing right there. The c-store payout is TRIBBLE, but there will undoubtedly some purchasers of it. I'm keen on the shield warp plasma console myself.
Didnt I say that?^^
True... while the feds get a lot of stuff just to counter us (if they have to...) we get some prety awsome toys that have use all over the game. That subspace-jump-device, by the way, is also prety amazing..
Pirtyfully I ran out of c-store money to test the sci consoles since I wastet my stipend on the quads...
Can you please calm down and stop that pointless disagreement?
I do not relly care who is right or wrong here... there is just no point in arguing.... especially since you do not even argue on any real subject any more..
I appologize for taking the bait, should've spat it out at the beginning. If the arguing upset anyone Im sorry, didn't mean to ruin anyones forum experience.
We are getting buffed, in the sense that we're getting new toys in C-store (lol). Who cares about the ships, it's the consoles that are truly powerful. it's pay2have-an-advantage, sure, but it's cryptic. They're not going to change their philosophies anytime soon.
Until then, we just keep doing what we must.
The Jumper is very intersting though it is bugged currently ( no loss of target lock on jumping)
The Aceton Assimilator is only good for Borg bait ( but damed good at it)
The Plasmonic Leech is a passive that I have not tested yet.
The rest where equally entertaining, though I have not tested them all yet.
I too wasted my stipend on the Quads ( and DOffing)
The Jumper is very intersting though it is bugged currently ( no loss of target lock on jumping)
The Aceton Assimilator is only good for Borg bait ( but damed good at it)
The Plasmonic Leech is a passive that I have not tested yet.
The rest where equally entertaining, though I have not tested them all yet.
I too wasted my stipend on the Quads ( and DOffing)
I put in a bug report on the Plasmonic Leech for Tribble...if it is a passive, then the description is wrong...if it is an activated power, as the description states, then it is not showing up as a power in the power tray.
Comments
Just for the record: The Hegh'ta visuals were changed (and not in a good way)^^ so you cant say its the same (even after a year and a half I still HATE this changes :mad:
On the balance side, Roach said it:
The BoP got a lot of indirect nerfs...
- cannon changes (long ago I know...)... before it was easier to bring down the enemy faster. Now he has more time to shoot back, and a ship with that little hull and shields naturally suffers much more from that changes then...others.
- Prometheus: One of the BOPs benefits are its universal slots. The federation might not have uni slots but they come clother and clother to simply beeing able to choose their exact bo layout by ship choice, so if every possible combination is available the uni slots are not really an advantage any more.
The MVA-Prometheus has, for example, prety exactly the BO layout MANY BoPs fly arround with.
- Defaint: Cloak was a Klingon perk once... not any more. Of course it hits the Raptor more, since the defaint is a buffed copy of it, and of course we still have the BC on the BoPs, but still it reduces its advatandge.
- Shield nerfs: that one is prety obvious, A ship wirth such low hull and shield modificators depends more then anything from every singel shield point.
So, like with the cannons, the nerf of covariant shield hits the BoPs more then other escots or any other ship.
- Cloak detection.... IMO needs no explanation
- any sci nerf.... Many BoPs have a heavy sci orientet build.
So every nerf on sci abiltys like it happened to the VM (although admiditly necessary), Scramble sensors just yesterday (of course the change was needet, its still a nerf), or the nerf of the old sci consoles lowered the BoPs value.
Sci ships got buffs, BoPs not.
And I'm prety sure i have forgotten some details.
On the other Hand you COULD consider the new p2w... I mean "+1" consoles a BoP buff since they are able to carry KDF-sci-consoles, Destroyer consoles AND raider consoles.
That of course fits into the concept of a multifunction-ship that that is representet by the uni slots, (and it would actually be more consequent to allow them to carry cruiser consoles, too), but STILL, I dint thing, once the new ships hit holodeck, any other ship will have that much choice.
Downside, of course: you have to pay for win... ahhh I mean pay for that.
So I'd really like to see some BoP buffs... especially on the hull strength.
Better ship or not, nobody questions that you are a good pvper, the average KDF player is STILL better then the avarage Fed player, .... Magnum Star seems to be kind of new (no offense intendet), and you seem to be one of the older =better players.... you'd probably beat him with a t3 ship; that wouldnt proof the t3 ship beeing better then the t5
As always you are most wise.
Are you gonan continue with teh cowardly troll act, oh wait its not an act.
Roach? Wise?
Must be his mirror universe counterpart...
Makes me wonder what the Klingon Academy debate team must be like.
" debate rules:
Formal declaration of pro-postion followed by a rebutal from the con-side and bath'leths
My suggestion would be , set aside the ego and ask gx4th to demostrate proper BoP use in the ques for you to help you overcome some of its shortcommings.
Teaming and teamwork used to be the big thing for the KDF and is why many feds have thought us and the BoP to be OP in the past.
Fight and settle things amongst yourself but remember the real enemy is at ESD.
He does seem to be a new STO pvp'er, and if he were to go up with us or against us, hopefully that would clue him in as to just how flexible the bops can be. It's not about who's better or worse or what ship is OP / UP. It's about opening someone to new possibilities.
And who cares if the feds have better ships? Cryptic doesn't care about ship balance or else they wouldn't have made cruiser AMS, intrepid ablative, defiant superior turn rate, or the MVAM which is in all respects a fed BoP.
It all comes down to pilot and team. That's it. Who gives a TRIBBLE if your opponent is using chain scrams or AMS, you still have to fight them in that match.
Its the hair. All the crazy has twisted its way out clearing my mind for ......
what we talking about again?
Isn't that what it's all about though? So many ways to fly it, it's like building a ship of your own.
This is just 1 build I like It's not the best, or the worst, it's just what works for me. I'm just sick of ppl trying to pigeon-hole the bop into something and just complain it's UP when it doesn't live up to their expectations.
Thats just right until the fed team is AS GOOD as the KDF team.
Sure, usually we ARE better because of having the better pilots and teamwork, but as soon as we meet a fed team that is as good...and there EXIST good fed teams too... if they have better ships and/or toys like the AMS.. they win.
Still... that doesnt happen too often^^
Are real enemy is Cryptics Fed bias. Sorry no matter what you say gx4th is a coward no matter how good he is at PvP. In my group the debate rules you stated are actually how things are setttled within my group, lol, only its usually fists. In my group, like the Klingons, the only way to ensure you receive the proper respect from another person is to fight it out.
Isn't it more satisfying when you beat TSI, RE, SOB, etc. etc. etc. when you're on the KDF though
Well I cant deny that it is kind of a pleasure that, no matter how much the feds get buffed and we get nefed we still kick their a**.... at least for a while... but after some time... I want some new toys to play with, too.
Well said.
We are getting buffed, in the sense that we're getting new toys in C-store (lol). Who cares about the ships, it's the consoles that are truly powerful. it's pay2have-an-advantage, sure, but it's cryptic. They're not going to change their philosophies anytime soon.
Until then, we just keep doing what we must.
You know that saying "if you keep repeating something loudly, chances are it's not true?" It's like saying you have a big torpedo. Are you overcompensating?
Truth has been said, no reason to argue^^
Can you please calm down and stop that pointless disagreement?
I do not relly care who is right or wrong here... there is just no point in arguing.... especially since you do not even argue on any real subject any more..
Yeah you're right. I'll just look for him in the Queues. Fun times to be had tonight and every night. I love hunting.
One thing to note with the consoles. Anything that can be outfitted to raptors or sci vessels can be outfitted to bops. That's a very good thing right there. The c-store payout is TRIBBLE, but there will undoubtedly some purchasers of it. I'm keen on the shield warp plasma console myself.
Just informing you how true men settle their differences and not by snide comments on the forum. So far I haven't heard you say this is how you'd like to settle it, even though it maybe impossible to do so. But that lets me know you usually dont insult people to their face but from behind their backs, on forums, chat, or any other form of coommunication that keeps you safe and the insulted from harming you. A coward is as a coward does is another old saying and so far you've proven it true.
This will be my last reply to you since you are baiting me into committing the same troll cowardice you are doing, since I can't retalaite in the proper manly fashion I will refrain from responding in kind to you.
I agree with First and I'll just hunt for you in the queues
Didnt I say that?^^
True... while the feds get a lot of stuff just to counter us (if they have to...) we get some prety awsome toys that have use all over the game. That subspace-jump-device, by the way, is also prety amazing..
Pirtyfully I ran out of c-store money to test the sci consoles since I wastet my stipend on the quads...
I appologize for taking the bait, should've spat it out at the beginning. If the arguing upset anyone Im sorry, didn't mean to ruin anyones forum experience.
The Jumper is very intersting though it is bugged currently ( no loss of target lock on jumping)
The Aceton Assimilator is only good for Borg bait ( but damed good at it)
The Plasmonic Leech is a passive that I have not tested yet.
The rest where equally entertaining, though I have not tested them all yet.
I too wasted my stipend on the Quads ( and DOffing)
ROTFLMAO! ... Ok ... I needed that. Reminds me that the weekend is coming, and I can resume leveling my Gorn before F2P.
::: jots down notes for his BoP pilot.
I put in a bug report on the Plasmonic Leech for Tribble...if it is a passive, then the description is wrong...if it is an activated power, as the description states, then it is not showing up as a power in the power tray.