Maybe its time to UN-Nerf the BOP's, and give them back what they once had.
If fed players want to whine about KDF being OP, then maybe they need to have it pointed out to them that maybe they should learn how to fight thier ships.. Thier ships, and then once they know how, then maybe they can wina few fights against experienced KDF players..
Sun-Tsu said
If you do not know your self, aor you enemy victory will eude you
If you know yourself but not the enemy then you will win some victories.
Only by knowing yourself and your enemy can you be always victorious.
The Best KDF PvP players would be just as "Best" if they were flying Federation ships. The reason why is they know the Ships of both the KDF and The Federation, they know wnow what they can do, and what they cannot do. And most improtantly they know what they themselves can do. It's not a matter of any sort of magic "Build" for the character, or the ship though that certainly contributes. You can have the best "Gun" in the universe.. but if you don't understand the flow of combat, if you do not grasp battle, tactice, stratagy, awareness of the battle area and whats happening around you, then the primitive with a rock will come along and bash your oh so superior skull in.
I see players in the "The Cure" space STF get constantly sandbagged by the two guard raptors that apper when one of the upper Nannites at a ship yard dies. The guard raptors pack a lot of firepower and need to be a priority target as soon as they appear. These players do not have voice communication with the other players, they show a complete lack of awareness of what is happeing to them. They do not react to being attacked. To this type of player.. You bet a KDF ships is going to be OP.. Space dust to them if it damages thier ship is OP. The AI flies and fights a ship better then they do... and considering that all of us for the most part go through AI controlled ships (ie: operated by a script) like Beans through a Gringo.... thats pretty sad.
Its not the KDF ships, or the KDF Characters that are OP... Its the players themselves. Sorry fed folks... but I'm afraid that nerfing them is beyond Cryptic capabilities. Deal with it.
Khemaraa Iron Hand.
Going through Fed players like Beans through a Gringo since 2000
I've been with Cryptic for a long time. City of Heroes was the 1st MMO I ever played and from there I followed them to Champions and from there jumped to STO when it launched. I jump between Champions and STO, since I can't afford 2 accounts, so neither game gets too boring to me. The BoP we have now is not the same one we had at launch, if you like the BoP now you'd of truly loved flying one back in the day.
The nerfing of this ship was totally uncalled for and was due to Federation players complaining it was OP. The BoP was never OP, as was stated above it was the skill of the Federation players that was under-powered. There was a reason for the Feds lack of skills, most were new players. Just as it is now the Federation side got a steady influx of new players while the Klingon side stagnated because of its lack of content. Also most of those on the Klingon side already got a couple Fed toons to VA and made a Klingon to try something new so most Klingon players were already experienced players, this was what caused the Feds to lose the PvP battles and not the BoP being OP. I wish Cryptic would have explored this fact before pulling out the nerf bat.
A majority of inexperience on the Fed side ia also the reason some of you today think there is nothing wrong with the BoP as it is now and laud the abilities of the battle cloak. Face an experienced Fed squad and you'll quickly learn the BoP is under powered and battle cloak is not as useful as you think. No matter what anyone says other than the initial being able to position yourself at an enemys vulnerable side cloaking in general is useless becuase of the slow shield power build up, and that's a fact. Not having the slow build up of shield power after decloaking puts no one at a disadvantage but instead puts you on an even keel with the Feds whose shields are already at full power and waiting for you to decloak so they can combine fire on your Klingon ship thats shields are only at 15-20%.
Here's why I say battle cloak is ineffective. Because you have to stack defensive stuff so you can use it effectively you now have hamstrung your offensive capabilites to compensate. Another reason is when you duck out (Battle cloak), either evading destruction or trying to confuse, you're no longer firing your weapons or activley participating in the battle. So what happens to your team mates, assuming youre the only one in a BoP, is they're now left to face 4 Fed ships instead of 3 giving them a numbers advantage. The Feds will now combine fire on one of your buddies to take him out so even if you get back in time to fire a couple shots before they take out your buddy you still will be facing superior numbers.
Even if the BoP cloaks back in immediately he will have to burn some of his defensive capabilities (Which aren't many in the new BoP) to stay in battle so now he's at a disadvantage because he has to wait for the cool down to use them again.
If I remember right the old BoP had the same amount of weapons, consoles, stations, hull strength, & shields as the raptor had but with a slightly better shield power stat and the ability to unversally assign stations. If all this has been nerfed then how effective do you really think this ship is in it's current state?
I actually don't think the BoP was ever nerfed specifically, just not ever buffed from the origonal stats it has had for the longest time which exist to represent its design use of Battle Cloak and U-slots.
It has been constantly becried as OP though it is one of the most unchanged ships in the game.
I maybe wrong but I remember having more weapons with this ship at one time. Are you sure they didn't nerf that? I also remember it having a better hull and shield power stat.
I maybe wrong but I remember having more weapons with this ship at one time. Are you sure they didn't nerf that?
Always been a 4/2 set-up that I can remember.
The BoP has suffered from side-ways nerfs to other abilities, by rampant cloak-detecting bugs, changes to Cannons and the feds belief that The KDF is OP becuase a bunch of really good PvP'ers kept kicking thier hoops around the ques over 2 years ago.
tun chor nuch yuQjIjDIvI' chu'wI'
It was posted early in CB that the BoP had lowest hull and shields ingame becuase of its use of U-slots and the battle Cloak.
In light of the changes being made and new ships being released, I think the 2+ year old reasons for this need revisiting.
Yeah I did fly one back in the day, as an engineer no less. No, there weren't any nerfs to the bop, it's the same as it was. The B'rel was nerfed horribly shortly before it was made available to the public, and that's only been fixed recently.
I'll say it again, it's really not the ship's fault. The hegta and the now unnerfed brel are great ships and always have been great ships. The hegta's never changed since launch.
What's changed is the addition of very powerful fed ships. There's a reason the mvam, defiant, intrepid, and excelsior are flown in pvp.
If you require an in game fleet demonstration on how to fly a bop, then the pandas will be glad to give you and your crew a challenge. Or fly with me and let's duo for a few matches. No, I'm not saying you're a bad pilot, but you do have some misdirected disdain for the ship you fly.
Just because the feds are now flying better ships does not mean your ship's bantha poo doo. It's a great ship, always has been, and yes, I've been flying klingon since season 1. Again, if you require a 5v5 demonstration on just how to fly a ******* bop, then the pandas are always here.
Is it just me or do the Klingon ships seem unbalanced against the Feds? The BoP seems very weak when matched against any Fed ship with .8 shield power setting, less consoles, less BO's, etc. You have combat cloak but it doesn't offset the disparities in the BoP vs it's Fed counterparts. Cloaking isn't very useful since once you decloak it takes time for your shields to power up to full strength. It almost seems the KDF ships have been nerfed on purpose to give the Feds an advantage and the BoP has been doubly so, it hasn't been nerfed it's been neutered. I don't know how feasible/good they are but I have come up with some ideas on how to offset this disparity.
Cloaking and Shields - Instead of having the shields slowly power up upon decloaking allow them to be at full strength when you uncloak in accordance to what setting you are using - power to weapons, shields, etc. In the various series and movies there was never a slow powering up of shields, either they were up or they weren't. This would make cloak a bit more useful and counter the inequality in faction ships. It doesn't give the KDF faction a advantage but puts them on a even keel with their opponents whose shields are already up and at full strength.
More teeth for the BoP - Give the BoP an extra fwd mounted weapon slot to mount either a light canon, turret, or single beam weapon.
Combat Cloak Battle Worthy - I noticed when I use combat cloak i'm still getting hammered for several seconds after cloaking and to make matters worse my shields are down. To offset this disadvantage I recommend that upon using combat cloak your opponent immediately loses you as a target, about the same way jam sensors works.
Those are my suggestions and I hope they are good ones. I could be wrong about the handicap in KDF ships but after numerous PvP matches & PvE missions on both sides it appears the Star Fleet side has the advantage in ship combat.
As a primarily Klingon player I'm going to have to say no. Perceived unbalances with the Bird of Prey will not be resolved by giving it more forward weapons than every Escort and Raptor class ship in the game and the battle cloak is a powerful tool as it stands right now. My advice for you would be to work on positioning and choosing a more tactically viable time to cloak.
Yeah I did fly one back in the day, as an engineer no less. No, there weren't any nerfs to the bop, it's the same as it was. The B'rel was nerfed horribly shortly before it was made available to the public, and that's only been fixed recently.
I'll say it again, it's really not the ship's fault. The hegta and the now unnerfed brel are great ships and always have been great ships. The hegta's never changed since launch.
What's changed is the addition of very powerful fed ships. There's a reason the mvam, defiant, intrepid, and excelsior are flown in pvp.
If you require an in game fleet demonstration on how to fly a bop, then the pandas will be glad to give you and your crew a challenge. Or fly with me and let's duo for a few matches. No, I'm not saying you're a bad pilot, but you do have some misdirected disdain for the ship you fly.
Just because the feds are now flying better ships does not mean your ship's bantha poo doo. It's a great ship, always has been, and yes, I've been flying klingon since season 1. Again, if you require a 5v5 demonstration on just how to fly a ******* bop, then the pandas are always here.
I dont fly the BoP, and won't as long as it doesn't live up to how it is described in the movies, tv episodes, etc. And it just stands to reason if the Feds have stronger ships now then the BoP needs to be improved. The majority of the people on here agree with this so let it be! A better demonstration yet would be for someone to organize a match with the best BoP flyers vs the best Fed PvP pilots and see who wins most of the battles. You can even mix cruisers and raptors with the BoP's. I bet dollars to dog turds the Feds come out on top of the majority of those battles, the smart money is gonna be with the feds on this bet.
A better demonstration yet would be for someone to organize a match with the best BoP flyers vs the best Fed PvP pilots and see who wins most of the battles. You can even mix cruisers and raptors with the BoP's. I bet dollars to dog turds the Feds come out on top of the majority of those battles, the smart money is gonna be with the feds on this bet.
Its been done already.
Feds came out on top more often than not. I would say 2/3rds of the time.
Unfortunately I have no idea if the Players where the KDFs best pilots, but I knew all of them and had faith in thier abilties as Klingons and PvP'ers, so it wasn't just a random PuG thrown together for sake of testing.
I dont fly the BoP, and won't as long as it doesn't live up to how it is described in the movies, tv episodes, etc. Classic feddie dreadnaught-itis. You may want pvp to be like the shows, and to some extent I think most everyone does, but until you accept the current pvp conditions, you won't have a super killer bird of prey cruiser that does everything.
And it just stands to reason if the Feds have stronger ships now then the BoP needs to be improved. The majority of the people on here agree with this so let it be! Who says I disagree with this? I want an extra ensign universal slot for the BoPs
A better demonstration yet would be for someone to organize a match with the best BoP flyers vs the best Fed PvP pilots and see who wins most of the battles. We do this EVERY single night. The pandas fly both fed and kling side, and even up against the other pvp fleets with very good pilots our record is pretty good.
You can even mix cruisers and raptors with the BoP's. You have NO concept of pvp, do you? Sci powers are very powerful in pvp. There's a reason pvp teams laugh at all cruiser teams but approach all sci vessel teams with caution. You haven't played organized pvp much, have you? No shame in that, and pug pvp is very fun, but even in pug play you've got to be blind not to recognize that sci ships are the best force multiplier ships around.
I bet dollars to dog turds the Feds come out on top of the majority of those battles, the smart money is gonna be with the feds on this bet.
Again, form a team of your choosing and let's pvp, unless you're not a real klingon but a fed pve'er flying kdf. Fly fed side if you want to. Pandas are very good kling and fed side so either faction is good for us.
/123456789
PS: lol at thinking flying a cruiser is the better option. I just hope you actually support your teammates instead of plinking away at a fed ship while your teammate's hull is burning and he's close to a warp core breech.
PS: lol at thinking flying a cruiser is the better option. I just hope you actually support your teammates instead of plinking away at a fed ship while your teammate's hull is burning and he's close to a warp core breech.
I just love the jack-a-napes on here that troll every post on the forum. I wouldn't fly with you at all sir since you are clearly a trolll and more than likely a cryptic panda brown noser.
When I said get the 3 best from either side you'll notice I didnt say me. And I still think that is a good idea, I think cryptic shoud do it, video record each match to see if there are any weaknesses in the ship balance. Cryptic needs to be involved to referee to ensure no hacks, exploits, or any other funny business isnt used. Which I may add is a favorite tatic of the die hard PvP fleets.
I just love the jack-a-napes on here that troll every post on the forum. I wouldn't fly with you at all sir since you are clearly a trolll and more than likely a cryptic panda brown noser.
The PvE'er shows his true colors. You have no idea how to pvp or even what currently works in pvp. Stop making threads about how BoPs should have 5 slots up front, or have hull / shield capacities of cruisers. Go back to PvE, please.
The PvE'er shows his true colors. You have no idea how to pvp or even what currently works in pvp. Stop making threads about how BoPs should have 5 slots up front, or have hull / shield capacities of cruisers. Go back to PvE, please.
If you would have read futher jack you would have read in one of the repleis I for some reason was thinking the BoP had 3 fwd weapons. Again trolls and reading don't mix.
The PvE'er shows his true colors. You have no idea how to pvp or even what currently works in pvp. Stop making threads about how BoPs should have 5 slots up front, or have hull / shield capacities of cruisers. Go back to PvE, please.
I also never stated the BoP shoudl ahve the same shield rating as a BoP but thoguht it did at one time. I did say it needed a better shield and hull rating, and also I wasn't thinking of PvP alone but talked about PvE too, Read more thoroughly troll.
If you would have read futher jack you would have read in one of the repleis I for some reason was thinking the BoP had 3 fwd weapons
If you didn't know how many weapons your ship had, then you clearly don't fly it enough? Let alone fight with it. Sigh, this is the quality of KDF "pvp'ers" these days?
If you didn't know how many weapons your ship had, then you clearly don't fly it enough? Let alone fight with it. Sigh, this is the quality of KDF "pvp'ers" these days?
A misthought, my mind is on more than this game troll. Apparently something is wrong or the PvP queues would be full right? Or are we all just pathetic? I doubt that is the case and it is you with the deficiency. A lot of you die hard PvP Fleets are known to use exploits, scripts, or any cheat that puts you one up, then brag about your superiority to others. If all your claim to fame is being good at STO PvP then you are the pathetic one.
A misthought, my mind is on more than this game troll. Apparently something is wrong or the PvP queues would be full right? Or are we all just pathetic? I doubt that is the case and it is you with the deficiency. A lot of you die hard PvP Fleets are known to use exploits, scripts, or any cheat that puts you one up, then brag about your superiority to others. If all your claim to fame is being good at STO PvP then you are the pathetic one.
Ah, the "you only win because you cheat!" card is pulled. How lovely. When all else fails and you know you'll lose in open combat, pull that card out!
Forum pvp is nice, but since you're flying a klingon, did you really back down from a fight in the arenas? I think you're in the wrong faction.
Ah, the "you only win because you cheat!" card is pulled. How lovely. When all else fails and you know you'll lose in open combat, pull that card out!
Forum pvp is nice, but since you're flying a klingon, did you really back down from a fight in the arenas? I think you're in the wrong faction.
I like how that 'oh that never happens" then accuse you of pulling the card. Its all to common on here and used to shield those who are unscrupulous. Never said you personally but if the shoe fits. As far as who is being more the Klingon, I wasn't the one who started a insult match safe miles away and unknown to the person I am insulting, that was you because we know how brave you trolls are. Can't say stuff like that to someones face because it may get yours pushed in.
For the record, gx4th is not a troll and I've flown beside him often enough to know his views of PvP and tactics there-in are to be respected and taking seriuosly.
I wasn't the one who started a insult match safe miles away and unknown to the person I am insulting, that was you because we know how brave you trolls are. Can't say stuff like that to someones face because it may get yours pushed in.
Arenas are the best place to settle disputes, bring whatever ship and fleet you want, man. I'm a B'rel pilot, it should be very easy to shoot me down since you have the upper hand right?
I did agree that the BoP could use a slight bump, but seriously if you thought the BoP had 3 weapon slots or had its shields nerfed, you really didn't fly a bop all that much.
Stop looking at the specs only, that is my advice to you. The specs don't paint the complete picture when you've got universal stations and the best cloak in game, especially with the B'rel. And no, if you think it's because of torpedoes while cloaked you've been sorely misled.
Go ahead and ridicule the BoP, saying it's a worthless ship when compared to fed ships. Not as powerful as we once were with the advent of the Fed BoP (MVAM), defiant (better raptor), and intrepid, but the BoP is still a very good ship choice.
Don't spout nonsense when you haven't PvP'ed with the BoP or against BoPs enough times.
For the record, gx4th is not a troll and I've flown beside him often enough to know his views of PvP and tactics there-in are to be respected and taking seriuosly.
Sorry Roach but when it looks, smells, acts, and talks like a troll then its a troll. You also had reservations about some of my ideas but your input was polite and helpful. His was insulting, downgrading, and trolll like. His opinions could and should have been expressed in another way. I'm out to help people and fight for some equality for KDF so if I'm going the wrong direction I need a corrected course but in the manner in which you yourself gave it. And as you have repleid to me many times you know if I'm wrong I'm not afraid to admit it. So if i was too hard on your friend I appologize, I've been a biker for a long time and it doesn't take much to get my back hair up.
Arenas are the best place to settle disputes, bring whatever ship and fleet you want, man. I'm a B'rel pilot, it should be very easy to shoot me down since you have the upper hand right?
I did agree that the BoP could use a slight bump, but seriously if you thought the BoP had 3 weapon slots or had its shields nerfed, you really didn't fly a bop all that much.
Stop looking at the specs only, that is my advice to you. The specs don't paint the complete picture when you've got universal stations and the best cloak in game, especially with the B'rel. And no, if you think it's because of torpedoes while cloaked you've been sorely misled.
Go ahead and ridicule the BoP, saying it's a worthless ship when compared to fed ships. Not as powerful as we once were with the advent of the Fed BoP (MVAM), defiant (better raptor), and intrepid, but the BoP is still a very good ship choice.
Don't spout nonsense when you haven't PvP'ed with the BoP or against BoPs enough times.
For insults the arena wouldn't be my 1st choice to settle matters, as I have stated earleir Im only fair a PvP so I'm sure you would win. As you probaly read that again its a safe choice for you, same as being miles away. I would really like to settle the way it should be settled in a more Klingon fashion but as you clearly shied away from that its clear your only brave if you have the upper hand or can insult someone through a forum.
So if i was too hard on your friend I appologize, I've been a biker for a long time and it doesn't take much to get my back hair up.
No skin off my nose, your words are just words. If you really take a deep breath, the only one losing is you. You haven't thought about what kind of BoP setups and tactics are capable. You just have this narrow view of how the BoPs should operate.
It's really your loss and no one else's, because the bird is a great ship, always has been. If you can't fly it, then it's because of your mentality.
Sorry Roach but when it looks, smells, acts, and talks like a troll then its a troll. You also had reservations about some of my ideas but your input was polite and helpful. His was insulting, downgrading, and trolll like. His opinions could and should have been expressed in another way. I'm out to help people and fight for some equality for KDF so if I'm going the wrong direction I need a corrected course but in the manner in which you yourself gave it. And as you have repleid to me many times you know if I'm wrong I'm not afraid to admit it. So if i was too hard on your friend I appologize, I've been a biker for a long time and it doesn't take much to get my back hair up.
I'm not saying back down, change your stance or anything that is meant to alter your belief structure in this, just that gx4th is not a troll nor a unknowing BoP pilot.
We are Klingon fans. Its always easy to get our back-hair up.
and we fight amongst ourselves as easily as we do against outsiders - it happens.
The trading of insults and mud-slinging is all on the two of you.
Your grown men and can settle it, just wanted you to know that gx4th is not without experience (lots of it).
Just like you would not walk into a bar and knock the 1%-ter off his stool without knowing what you are getting into, I felt you might take it more seriuosly if someone let you know that gx4th does not speak idlely.
Defending yourself against what you think is insulting is your right, I will not stop you from speaking your mind and from what I know of gx4th, he is able to take as much as what he dishes out.
Back to the Thread though.
Yes, I too would like to see the BoP get adjusted to keep pace with the influx of new ships and the raising of the bar that such may entail.
Otherwise gx4th is right the BoP, as is, is a very effective vessel and thats the reason I have always come back to it.
Besides I think this whole debacle may be over a missunderstanding.
You wish to see the BoP perform as it has been shown to do so in the genre.
gx4th says it does if you take the time to pratice and use it properly.
No skin off my nose, your words are just words. If you really take a deep breath, the only one losing is you. You haven't thought about what kind of BoP setups and tactics are capable. You just have this narrow view of how the BoPs should operate.
It's really your loss and no one else's, because the bird is a great ship, always has been. If you can't fly it, then it's because of your mentality.
Lol, again the insults. You are a brave one aren't you? Where I am from you don't flip insults around unless you can back them up. And to use them behind someones back or where they can't retaliate is considered and is a cowardly act. And if you used them where I am from and in my presence you'd have more than skin missing off your nose. I may lose but we're gonna roll around till you think twice about talking smack again.
And its you who should take a deep breath, because if you would've only left out the insults and stuck to what you were sayiing and offered to maybe help I would have been more likely to accept your knowledge of the BoP. But because your words were full of **** I thought you were too.
However if Roach vouches for you I will again take a ride in the BoP and try some of the suggestions on here and have a more open view of the BoP and its tactics.
Sorry Roach but when it looks, smells, acts, and talks like a troll then its a troll. You also had reservations about some of my ideas but your input was polite and helpful. His was insulting, downgrading, and trolll like. His opinions could and should have been expressed in another way. \
I'm not opposed to bops getting a buff, but to hear you guys go on about how bops are a useless ship is just sickening.
You guys have a case of the fed-dreadnaughtitis. I can't count how many fed dreadnaught pilots go on about how their ship is supposed to dominate everything because they saw "all good things.." and urge anyone who disagrees with them to look up "dreadnaught."
This is not a solo game. You can't reasonably expect to go against an engineer/cruiser and alpha him 100% of the time. Good cruisers just have too much mitigation. Even zombie cruisers who don't heal anyone but themselves have excellent damage mitigation.
As someone said, employ the wolfpack mentality. No, you're not a sci vessel, or an escort. You will never be. Stop kirking it up in PvP like feds do, and you'll find the bop quite capable.
I run a very peculiar setup. GW/EWP/scram 1/shockwave/TB. The bop is the only ship where you can really have fun with warp plasma, and with GW / shockwave / TB to further control the enemy, it's fun.
No, I don't usually land the klling blow, but that's for the tac / bop / raptor / goomba that's waiting to alpha strike the trapped and condemned.
My bop captain's name is Rozav, and I run with the Haxcellent Pandas for pvp. You may or may not have faced us, but we do like a bop or two in the teams we run.
1. let your big capital ships open up, you have teammates in CnH and Arenas, right?
2. harass them, or help alpha strike, or both
3. stop trying to slug it out; you're vulnerable to torp spreads
4. did i mention torp spreads and other 1-shot capable powers like BO?
5. use that battlecloak to get in and out
You clearly don't care about opinions when they're expressed nicely, no you just want to say your opinions are right and others are wrong.
The BoP is NOT a raptor
The BoP is NOT an escort
The BoP is NOT a science vessel
It's a unique ship in the KDF that is still as good as it is today as it was back then. The feds just got stronger ships. No 3-fore weapon end game bops existed, and they were not nerfed except for the B'rel battlecloak which cryptic really F'ed up on, but is now fixed.
Go and stick to your opinions, feel free to do so. We'll just have fun with BoPs.
Lol, again the insults. You are a brave one aren't you? Where I am from you don't flip insults around unless you can back them up. And to use them behind someones back or where they can't retaliate is considered and is a cowardly act. And if you used them where I am from and in my presence you'd have more than skin missing off your nose. I may lose but we're gonna roll around till you think twice about talking smack again.
Your tears of sadness... would you like a tissue? Or handkerchief?
Comments
Well said!
The nerfing of this ship was totally uncalled for and was due to Federation players complaining it was OP. The BoP was never OP, as was stated above it was the skill of the Federation players that was under-powered. There was a reason for the Feds lack of skills, most were new players. Just as it is now the Federation side got a steady influx of new players while the Klingon side stagnated because of its lack of content. Also most of those on the Klingon side already got a couple Fed toons to VA and made a Klingon to try something new so most Klingon players were already experienced players, this was what caused the Feds to lose the PvP battles and not the BoP being OP. I wish Cryptic would have explored this fact before pulling out the nerf bat.
A majority of inexperience on the Fed side ia also the reason some of you today think there is nothing wrong with the BoP as it is now and laud the abilities of the battle cloak. Face an experienced Fed squad and you'll quickly learn the BoP is under powered and battle cloak is not as useful as you think. No matter what anyone says other than the initial being able to position yourself at an enemys vulnerable side cloaking in general is useless becuase of the slow shield power build up, and that's a fact. Not having the slow build up of shield power after decloaking puts no one at a disadvantage but instead puts you on an even keel with the Feds whose shields are already at full power and waiting for you to decloak so they can combine fire on your Klingon ship thats shields are only at 15-20%.
Here's why I say battle cloak is ineffective. Because you have to stack defensive stuff so you can use it effectively you now have hamstrung your offensive capabilites to compensate. Another reason is when you duck out (Battle cloak), either evading destruction or trying to confuse, you're no longer firing your weapons or activley participating in the battle. So what happens to your team mates, assuming youre the only one in a BoP, is they're now left to face 4 Fed ships instead of 3 giving them a numbers advantage. The Feds will now combine fire on one of your buddies to take him out so even if you get back in time to fire a couple shots before they take out your buddy you still will be facing superior numbers.
Even if the BoP cloaks back in immediately he will have to burn some of his defensive capabilities (Which aren't many in the new BoP) to stay in battle so now he's at a disadvantage because he has to wait for the cool down to use them again.
If I remember right the old BoP had the same amount of weapons, consoles, stations, hull strength, & shields as the raptor had but with a slightly better shield power stat and the ability to unversally assign stations. If all this has been nerfed then how effective do you really think this ship is in it's current state?
It has been constantly becried as OP though it is one of the most unchanged ships in the game.
Always been a 4/2 set-up that I can remember.
The BoP has suffered from side-ways nerfs to other abilities, by rampant cloak-detecting bugs, changes to Cannons and the feds belief that The KDF is OP becuase a bunch of really good PvP'ers kept kicking thier hoops around the ques over 2 years ago.
tun chor nuch yuQjIjDIvI' chu'wI'
It was posted early in CB that the BoP had lowest hull and shields ingame becuase of its use of U-slots and the battle Cloak.
In light of the changes being made and new ships being released, I think the 2+ year old reasons for this need revisiting.
I'll say it again, it's really not the ship's fault. The hegta and the now unnerfed brel are great ships and always have been great ships. The hegta's never changed since launch.
What's changed is the addition of very powerful fed ships. There's a reason the mvam, defiant, intrepid, and excelsior are flown in pvp.
If you require an in game fleet demonstration on how to fly a bop, then the pandas will be glad to give you and your crew a challenge. Or fly with me and let's duo for a few matches. No, I'm not saying you're a bad pilot, but you do have some misdirected disdain for the ship you fly.
Just because the feds are now flying better ships does not mean your ship's bantha poo doo. It's a great ship, always has been, and yes, I've been flying klingon since season 1. Again, if you require a 5v5 demonstration on just how to fly a ******* bop, then the pandas are always here.
As a primarily Klingon player I'm going to have to say no. Perceived unbalances with the Bird of Prey will not be resolved by giving it more forward weapons than every Escort and Raptor class ship in the game and the battle cloak is a powerful tool as it stands right now. My advice for you would be to work on positioning and choosing a more tactically viable time to cloak.
I dont fly the BoP, and won't as long as it doesn't live up to how it is described in the movies, tv episodes, etc. And it just stands to reason if the Feds have stronger ships now then the BoP needs to be improved. The majority of the people on here agree with this so let it be! A better demonstration yet would be for someone to organize a match with the best BoP flyers vs the best Fed PvP pilots and see who wins most of the battles. You can even mix cruisers and raptors with the BoP's. I bet dollars to dog turds the Feds come out on top of the majority of those battles, the smart money is gonna be with the feds on this bet.
Its been done already.
Feds came out on top more often than not. I would say 2/3rds of the time.
Unfortunately I have no idea if the Players where the KDFs best pilots, but I knew all of them and had faith in thier abilties as Klingons and PvP'ers, so it wasn't just a random PuG thrown together for sake of testing.
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PS: lol at thinking flying a cruiser is the better option. I just hope you actually support your teammates instead of plinking away at a fed ship while your teammate's hull is burning and he's close to a warp core breech.
I just love the jack-a-napes on here that troll every post on the forum. I wouldn't fly with you at all sir since you are clearly a trolll and more than likely a cryptic panda brown noser.
When I said get the 3 best from either side you'll notice I didnt say me. And I still think that is a good idea, I think cryptic shoud do it, video record each match to see if there are any weaknesses in the ship balance. Cryptic needs to be involved to referee to ensure no hacks, exploits, or any other funny business isnt used. Which I may add is a favorite tatic of the die hard PvP fleets.
The PvE'er shows his true colors. You have no idea how to pvp or even what currently works in pvp. Stop making threads about how BoPs should have 5 slots up front, or have hull / shield capacities of cruisers. Go back to PvE, please.
If you would have read futher jack you would have read in one of the repleis I for some reason was thinking the BoP had 3 fwd weapons. Again trolls and reading don't mix.
I also never stated the BoP shoudl ahve the same shield rating as a BoP but thoguht it did at one time. I did say it needed a better shield and hull rating, and also I wasn't thinking of PvP alone but talked about PvE too, Read more thoroughly troll.
If you didn't know how many weapons your ship had, then you clearly don't fly it enough? Let alone fight with it. Sigh, this is the quality of KDF "pvp'ers" these days?
A misthought, my mind is on more than this game troll. Apparently something is wrong or the PvP queues would be full right? Or are we all just pathetic? I doubt that is the case and it is you with the deficiency. A lot of you die hard PvP Fleets are known to use exploits, scripts, or any cheat that puts you one up, then brag about your superiority to others. If all your claim to fame is being good at STO PvP then you are the pathetic one.
Ah, the "you only win because you cheat!" card is pulled. How lovely. When all else fails and you know you'll lose in open combat, pull that card out!
Forum pvp is nice, but since you're flying a klingon, did you really back down from a fight in the arenas? I think you're in the wrong faction.
I like how that 'oh that never happens" then accuse you of pulling the card. Its all to common on here and used to shield those who are unscrupulous. Never said you personally but if the shoe fits. As far as who is being more the Klingon, I wasn't the one who started a insult match safe miles away and unknown to the person I am insulting, that was you because we know how brave you trolls are. Can't say stuff like that to someones face because it may get yours pushed in.
Arenas are the best place to settle disputes, bring whatever ship and fleet you want, man. I'm a B'rel pilot, it should be very easy to shoot me down since you have the upper hand right?
I did agree that the BoP could use a slight bump, but seriously if you thought the BoP had 3 weapon slots or had its shields nerfed, you really didn't fly a bop all that much.
Stop looking at the specs only, that is my advice to you. The specs don't paint the complete picture when you've got universal stations and the best cloak in game, especially with the B'rel. And no, if you think it's because of torpedoes while cloaked you've been sorely misled.
Go ahead and ridicule the BoP, saying it's a worthless ship when compared to fed ships. Not as powerful as we once were with the advent of the Fed BoP (MVAM), defiant (better raptor), and intrepid, but the BoP is still a very good ship choice.
Don't spout nonsense when you haven't PvP'ed with the BoP or against BoPs enough times.
Sorry Roach but when it looks, smells, acts, and talks like a troll then its a troll. You also had reservations about some of my ideas but your input was polite and helpful. His was insulting, downgrading, and trolll like. His opinions could and should have been expressed in another way. I'm out to help people and fight for some equality for KDF so if I'm going the wrong direction I need a corrected course but in the manner in which you yourself gave it. And as you have repleid to me many times you know if I'm wrong I'm not afraid to admit it. So if i was too hard on your friend I appologize, I've been a biker for a long time and it doesn't take much to get my back hair up.
For insults the arena wouldn't be my 1st choice to settle matters, as I have stated earleir Im only fair a PvP so I'm sure you would win. As you probaly read that again its a safe choice for you, same as being miles away. I would really like to settle the way it should be settled in a more Klingon fashion but as you clearly shied away from that its clear your only brave if you have the upper hand or can insult someone through a forum.
No skin off my nose, your words are just words. If you really take a deep breath, the only one losing is you. You haven't thought about what kind of BoP setups and tactics are capable. You just have this narrow view of how the BoPs should operate.
It's really your loss and no one else's, because the bird is a great ship, always has been. If you can't fly it, then it's because of your mentality.
I'm not saying back down, change your stance or anything that is meant to alter your belief structure in this, just that gx4th is not a troll nor a unknowing BoP pilot.
We are Klingon fans. Its always easy to get our back-hair up.
and we fight amongst ourselves as easily as we do against outsiders - it happens.
The trading of insults and mud-slinging is all on the two of you.
Your grown men and can settle it, just wanted you to know that gx4th is not without experience (lots of it).
Just like you would not walk into a bar and knock the 1%-ter off his stool without knowing what you are getting into, I felt you might take it more seriuosly if someone let you know that gx4th does not speak idlely.
Defending yourself against what you think is insulting is your right, I will not stop you from speaking your mind and from what I know of gx4th, he is able to take as much as what he dishes out.
Back to the Thread though.
Yes, I too would like to see the BoP get adjusted to keep pace with the influx of new ships and the raising of the bar that such may entail.
Otherwise gx4th is right the BoP, as is, is a very effective vessel and thats the reason I have always come back to it.
Besides I think this whole debacle may be over a missunderstanding.
You wish to see the BoP perform as it has been shown to do so in the genre.
gx4th says it does if you take the time to pratice and use it properly.
You are both right.
Lol, again the insults. You are a brave one aren't you? Where I am from you don't flip insults around unless you can back them up. And to use them behind someones back or where they can't retaliate is considered and is a cowardly act. And if you used them where I am from and in my presence you'd have more than skin missing off your nose. I may lose but we're gonna roll around till you think twice about talking smack again.
And its you who should take a deep breath, because if you would've only left out the insults and stuck to what you were sayiing and offered to maybe help I would have been more likely to accept your knowledge of the BoP. But because your words were full of **** I thought you were too.
However if Roach vouches for you I will again take a ride in the BoP and try some of the suggestions on here and have a more open view of the BoP and its tactics.
You clearly don't care about opinions when they're expressed nicely, no you just want to say your opinions are right and others are wrong.
The BoP is NOT a raptor
The BoP is NOT an escort
The BoP is NOT a science vessel
It's a unique ship in the KDF that is still as good as it is today as it was back then. The feds just got stronger ships. No 3-fore weapon end game bops existed, and they were not nerfed except for the B'rel battlecloak which cryptic really F'ed up on, but is now fixed.
Go and stick to your opinions, feel free to do so. We'll just have fun with BoPs.
Your tears of sadness... would you like a tissue? Or handkerchief?