Something to keep in mind, but, the diplomacy system is really a terrible and boring grind, with only a select few missions that actually feel diplomatic.
Please try to avoid that mistake with Marauding.
Only the First Contact missions and some of the diplomatic missions seems to be actually diplomatic. Ancestral Sin (Vulcan), Trade Deal (Starbase 39), Rescue Deferi Captives, and Standoff (Bajor) are actually diplomatic. Quarantine seems to be more of a medicine mission than diplomatic. So Diplomacy seems to be where the devs threw all noncombat missions.
I would prefer if they changed the non-combat explore missions to have appropriate commendation XP. Scanning flowers, alien lifeforms, and energy signs to be science related. Repairing damaged alien technology should be engineering related. Marauding should also have appropriate explore missions.
It would be nice if the Pi Canis Raids granted Marauding XP (Similar to how the Feds can play Rescue Deferi Captives (Daily) for Diplo XP). Perhaps just add it to the Path of the Warrior wrapper mission?
This is a really good idea, and I imagine it'd be a good complement to rescuing Deferi captives granting Feds DXP.
This is a really good idea, and I imagine it'd be a good complement to rescuing Deferi captives granting Feds DXP.
This is a really good idea, as are reconfiguring some the existing Diplomacy missions to give more appropriate Commendation xp types.
This is on my list to investigate how big a task this would be. If there's time for it and if Goatshark will let me touch his mission editor, this may be feasible for launch. No promises, but I would like it to happen.
This is a really good idea, and I imagine it'd be a good complement to rescuing Deferi captives granting Feds DXP.
This is a really good idea, as are reconfiguring some the existing Diplomacy missions to give more appropriate Commendation xp types.
This is on my list to investigate how big a task this would be. If there's time for it and if Goatshark will let me touch his mission editor, this may be feasible for launch. No promises, but I would like it to happen.
Thanks guys. It would be really nice to have at launch. Hopefully Goatshark will be in a generous mood.
This all sounds really great.
Can't wait to try it.
...on a side note...
If I remember correctly, once in a interview, John Colicos commented that He and Fred Phillips (the TOS Head Makeup Artist) were pretty much given 'carte blanche' to create the look and some background for the Klingons by Roddenberry. (of course Gene added his thoughts on the matter also.)
He (Colicos) said that they were more inspired by Attila the Hun and his Hunnic Barbarians than anything else.
So Plundering and Marauding would be much more in line for the Klingon psyche, than the Samurai one.
This all sounds really great.
Can't wait to try it.
...on a side note...
If I remember correctly, once in a interview, John Colicos commented that He and Fred Phillips (the TOS Head Makeup Artist) were pretty much given 'carte blanche' to create the look and some background for the Klingons by Roddenberry. (of course Gene added his thoughts on the matter also.)
He (Colicos) said that they were more inspired by Attila the Hun and his Hunnic Barbarians than anything else.
So Plundering and Marauding would be much more in line for the Klingon psyche, than the Samurai one.
I believe the whole idea of honor being a big part of Klingon beliefs was introduced with Worf.
Every 3rd word out of his mouth was honor this and no honor that....lol
Well, yeah. When Klingons were introduced as allies in TNG they needed some way to make them more ... likeable, I guess you might say, to audiences.
Previously in TOS, Klingons were portrayed as violent and manipulative thugs. And yes, some of them still are. But on the whole, it's been a good paradigm shift. So I like the fact that some of the Marauding assignments will be built so that honorable Klingons will want to avoid them in favor of other kinds of assignments. Other kinds of activities will reward Klingons for thinking and acting like warriors and conquerors.
It seems to me that Worf is nothing than a product of this upbringing. Being raised by humans, what can you really expect? I mean, he had problems with just about every "real" Klingon he met.
He screams, "Honor, Honor, Honro!!!"
While every other Klingon in the galaxy is screaming, "Victory, Victory, Victory!!!"
I think the whole Klingon-Fed alliance in the DS9 series was also out of convenience to face a common foe. War between the two factions inevitable.
Now I guess the question is do we want a Worf style system or do we want a true Klingon Marauder system based on the species that brought us the Bat'leth, Dak'tang, BoP, and cloaking device!
calling any Klingon old school is just silly, they are just characters in a show, designed to move a plot in whatever way the writers wanted them to go.
Trying to say you personally are the judge of what a fictional race of space aliens with bad hair, metal clothes and lumpy foreheads considers honorable or not is as silly as arguing about what a unicorn's favorite color is.
It seems to me that Worf is nothing than a product of this upbringing. Being raised by humans, what can you really expect? I mean, he had problems with just about every "real" Klingon he met.
He screams, "Honor, Honor, Honro!!!"
While every other Klingon in the galaxy is screaming, "Victory, Victory, Victory!!!"
I think the whole Klingon-Fed alliance in the DS9 series was also out of convenience to face a common foe. War between the two factions inevitable.
Now I guess the question is do we want a Worf style system or do we want a true Klingon Marauder system based on the species that brought us the Bat'leth, Dak'tang, BoP, and cloaking device!
Oh Yeah, sign me up for some of that!!!
As a big Orion fan-gril, I would rather have the marauder system. Orions are pirates, smugglers, and slavers, not honourable warriors.Let the Klingons have their honour and victory, Jes just wants her money and swag... and perhaps a night carousing in some bar.
Marauding comes out with the duty officer system, and at launch will exist almost completely within the assignment system. As we build new content we will be integrating all of the commendation categories including Marauding into said new content.
Could you also integrate the System to the existing Content? I know it would be a lot of Work to upgrade every Exploration Mission in for the KDF. but you did it before, when you introduced the Diplomatic System.
Could you also integrate the System to the existing Content? I know it would be a lot of Work to upgrade every Exploration Mission in for the KDF. but you did it before, when you introduced the Diplomatic System.
Thank you.
I agree, getting marauder xp (mxp) for doing certain explore missions would be nice. Even more so if we got some maruader-style explore missions.
It seems to me that Worf is nothing than a product of this upbringing. Being raised by humans, what can you really expect? I mean, he had problems with just about every "real" Klingon he met.
He screams, "Honor, Honor, Honro!!!"
While every other Klingon in the galaxy is screaming, "Victory, Victory, Victory!!!"
I think the whole Klingon-Fed alliance in the DS9 series was also out of convenience to face a common foe. War between the two factions inevitable.
Now I guess the question is do we want a Worf style system or do we want a true Klingon Marauder system based on the species that brought us the Bat'leth, Dak'tang, BoP, and cloaking device!
Oh Yeah, sign me up for some of that!!!
Well thats kind of logical: Worf learned everything about the "Klingon way" in theory, from Books ect.
So he grew up believing "all Klingons live like that and believe in that".
For most other Klingons all of that are just phrases wich gives them reasons to randomly start a fight, they dont really care about what Khaless said.....
Kind of like Religion works in reality; in theorie the Bible it about alturism and brotherly love, practicly that book alone is responsible for more dead, hatret and war then anything else....
calling any Klingon old school is just silly, they are just characters in a show, designed to move a plot in whatever way the writers wanted them to go.
Trying to say you personally are the judge of what a fictional race of space aliens with bad hair, metal clothes and lumpy foreheads considers honorable or not is as silly as arguing about what a unicorn's favorite color is.
Favorite color of a unicorn? There's three, blue, yellow and green! Ha!
For most other Klingons all of that are just phrases wich gives them reasons to randomly start a fight, they dont really care about what Khaless said
That's kind of harsh and, in my personal opinion, an extreme viewpoint. Whilst there certainly are many Klingons that do as you say, I do not believe them to be the norm. Just like with the comparison to religion: Though I agree that there are many extremists who have twisted and warped the meaning of the various faiths, I do not believe the majority of religious people to be willing to strap bombs to their chests or burn unbelievers on a pyre. The average people fall somewhere in-between the true followers and extremist thugs, truly believing in the concepts they were taught but still having weaknesses that may or may not make them fall "a little" from grace in everyday life.
It's really not like Worf never met likeminded people - just look at General Martok - but even if it were not so, we have to remember that TV rarely shows a given culture's average people, especially in cases where they are antagonists. Few episodes in Trek such as "Soldiers of the Empire" from DS9 actually allowed a proper glimpse at Klingon culture.
There was what I consider a fitting description of the issue in an article that was originally written for a never published Klingon RPG sourcebook. Let me quote the relevant passages from the pages about potential narratives:
The Klingon Empire is old and, in some ways, brittle. The Klingons themselves are prideful, and when pride goeth before a Klingons fall, that fall is often hidden behind a web of lies. Fools, as Klingon proverbs teach, do not survive their folly, but they often manage to take many others with them when they go, and the weakness of a few has invited corruption into the heart of the Empire. [...]
Those who are corrupted are often tired, aging Klingons in positions of military or governmental authority, surviving in positions of power through manipulative political means, rather than as honorable warriors and leaders. Filled with self-loathing and well aware of their own weaknesses, they are corrupted because they are too tired, or too scared, to face the consequences of a more honorable approach to their loss of strength. Such characters are powerful because they are both dangerous and sad many were once well respected, and the Crew may have to come to grips with tearing down an "idol" of sorts. Since such things must be done in a way that preserves the honor of the Empire and affected families if possible, this can add an additional wrinkle to the plot. Other potential candidates for corruption include the mirror image of the above: Young, brash Klingons who reject the ancient traditions and seek a quick path to power or glory are often seen indulging their weaknesses, and entirely unexpected sources of corruption (the faithful family handmaiden, the respected old historian and batleth instructor) can add an extra flavor of conspiracy to an episode. See what happens if the Crews own commander succumbs to weakness! This makes for a good (if somewhat tragic and bittersweet) scenario when the Narrator decides that its time the Crew themselves earn command of their vessel.
The outside, corrupting force can be as dramatic as a bed of Romulan spies, or as simple as a shipment of weapons that tempts the corrupted into taking dishonorable action. The corrupter can also be another Klingon, possibly the next "layer" in a web of corruption leading deeper into the halls of power. The corrupting element, whether its an inanimate object or a cunning villain, seldom has any motives in common with the corrupted. If it has any motives at all, they are selfish and dangerous. In some stories, the corrupter is the "real" villain of the tale.
For most other Klingons all of that are just phrases wich gives them reasons to randomly start a fight, they dont really care about what Khaless said.....
Depends...
For most player Klingons I think that that's true, but for RPing Klingons and the general Klingons of Lore I think that that's not true.
The teachings and ideals of Kahless shaped the Empire, and the very thing that is central to their society (Honor) was handed down by Kahless. But over the many centuries since he left the Empire, ideals have faded and corruption has taken hold in some, as Valias very clearly pointed out why that happens in some cases.
Ironically, the Empire, under J'mpok, is running the risk of falling even further from the teachings of Kahless (and in my opinion already has).....
Comments
Only the First Contact missions and some of the diplomatic missions seems to be actually diplomatic. Ancestral Sin (Vulcan), Trade Deal (Starbase 39), Rescue Deferi Captives, and Standoff (Bajor) are actually diplomatic. Quarantine seems to be more of a medicine mission than diplomatic. So Diplomacy seems to be where the devs threw all noncombat missions.
I would prefer if they changed the non-combat explore missions to have appropriate commendation XP. Scanning flowers, alien lifeforms, and energy signs to be science related. Repairing damaged alien technology should be engineering related. Marauding should also have appropriate explore missions.
This is a really good idea, and I imagine it'd be a good complement to rescuing Deferi captives granting Feds DXP.
This is a really good idea, as are reconfiguring some the existing Diplomacy missions to give more appropriate Commendation xp types.
This is on my list to investigate how big a task this would be. If there's time for it and if Goatshark will let me touch his mission editor, this may be feasible for launch. No promises, but I would like it to happen.
Can't wait to try it.
...on a side note...
If I remember correctly, once in a interview, John Colicos commented that He and Fred Phillips (the TOS Head Makeup Artist) were pretty much given 'carte blanche' to create the look and some background for the Klingons by Roddenberry. (of course Gene added his thoughts on the matter also.)
He (Colicos) said that they were more inspired by Attila the Hun and his Hunnic Barbarians than anything else.
So Plundering and Marauding would be much more in line for the Klingon psyche, than the Samurai one.
I believe the whole idea of honor being a big part of Klingon beliefs was introduced with Worf.
Every 3rd word out of his mouth was honor this and no honor that....lol
Well, yeah. When Klingons were introduced as allies in TNG they needed some way to make them more ... likeable, I guess you might say, to audiences.
Previously in TOS, Klingons were portrayed as violent and manipulative thugs. And yes, some of them still are. But on the whole, it's been a good paradigm shift. So I like the fact that some of the Marauding assignments will be built so that honorable Klingons will want to avoid them in favor of other kinds of assignments. Other kinds of activities will reward Klingons for thinking and acting like warriors and conquerors.
And it's all been downhill from there. Sure, we got a little bit of that old school Klingon from Gowron and the Duras but the magic just isn't there.
yup...all the magic is gone... ;(
He screams, "Honor, Honor, Honro!!!"
While every other Klingon in the galaxy is screaming, "Victory, Victory, Victory!!!"
I think the whole Klingon-Fed alliance in the DS9 series was also out of convenience to face a common foe. War between the two factions inevitable.
Now I guess the question is do we want a Worf style system or do we want a true Klingon Marauder system based on the species that brought us the Bat'leth, Dak'tang, BoP, and cloaking device!
Oh Yeah, sign me up for some of that!!!
I wouldn't quite call Duras an old school Klingon, lol.
Trying to say you personally are the judge of what a fictional race of space aliens with bad hair, metal clothes and lumpy foreheads considers honorable or not is as silly as arguing about what a unicorn's favorite color is.
As a big Orion fan-gril, I would rather have the marauder system. Orions are pirates, smugglers, and slavers, not honourable warriors.Let the Klingons have their honour and victory, Jes just wants her money and swag... and perhaps a night carousing in some bar.
Could you also integrate the System to the existing Content? I know it would be a lot of Work to upgrade every Exploration Mission in for the KDF. but you did it before, when you introduced the Diplomatic System.
Thank you.
I agree, getting marauder xp (mxp) for doing certain explore missions would be nice. Even more so if we got some maruader-style explore missions.
Well thats kind of logical: Worf learned everything about the "Klingon way" in theory, from Books ect.
So he grew up believing "all Klingons live like that and believe in that".
For most other Klingons all of that are just phrases wich gives them reasons to randomly start a fight, they dont really care about what Khaless said.....
Kind of like Religion works in reality; in theorie the Bible it about alturism and brotherly love, practicly that book alone is responsible for more dead, hatret and war then anything else....
Favorite color of a unicorn? There's three, blue, yellow and green! Ha!
It's really not like Worf never met likeminded people - just look at General Martok - but even if it were not so, we have to remember that TV rarely shows a given culture's average people, especially in cases where they are antagonists. Few episodes in Trek such as "Soldiers of the Empire" from DS9 actually allowed a proper glimpse at Klingon culture.
There was what I consider a fitting description of the issue in an article that was originally written for a never published Klingon RPG sourcebook. Let me quote the relevant passages from the pages about potential narratives:
The Klingon Empire is old and, in some ways, brittle. The Klingons themselves are prideful, and when pride goeth before a Klingons fall, that fall is often hidden behind a web of lies. Fools, as Klingon proverbs teach, do not survive their folly, but they often manage to take many others with them when they go, and the weakness of a few has invited corruption into the heart of the Empire. [...]
Those who are corrupted are often tired, aging Klingons in positions of military or governmental authority, surviving in positions of power through manipulative political means, rather than as honorable warriors and leaders. Filled with self-loathing and well aware of their own weaknesses, they are corrupted because they are too tired, or too scared, to face the consequences of a more honorable approach to their loss of strength. Such characters are powerful because they are both dangerous and sad many were once well respected, and the Crew may have to come to grips with tearing down an "idol" of sorts. Since such things must be done in a way that preserves the honor of the Empire and affected families if possible, this can add an additional wrinkle to the plot. Other potential candidates for corruption include the mirror image of the above: Young, brash Klingons who reject the ancient traditions and seek a quick path to power or glory are often seen indulging their weaknesses, and entirely unexpected sources of corruption (the faithful family handmaiden, the respected old historian and batleth instructor) can add an extra flavor of conspiracy to an episode. See what happens if the Crews own commander succumbs to weakness! This makes for a good (if somewhat tragic and bittersweet) scenario when the Narrator decides that its time the Crew themselves earn command of their vessel.
The outside, corrupting force can be as dramatic as a bed of Romulan spies, or as simple as a shipment of weapons that tempts the corrupted into taking dishonorable action. The corrupter can also be another Klingon, possibly the next "layer" in a web of corruption leading deeper into the halls of power. The corrupting element, whether its an inanimate object or a cunning villain, seldom has any motives in common with the corrupted. If it has any motives at all, they are selfish and dangerous. In some stories, the corrupter is the "real" villain of the tale.
Depends...
For most player Klingons I think that that's true, but for RPing Klingons and the general Klingons of Lore I think that that's not true.
The teachings and ideals of Kahless shaped the Empire, and the very thing that is central to their society (Honor) was handed down by Kahless. But over the many centuries since he left the Empire, ideals have faded and corruption has taken hold in some, as Valias very clearly pointed out why that happens in some cases.
Ironically, the Empire, under J'mpok, is running the risk of falling even further from the teachings of Kahless (and in my opinion already has).....