Is there some sort of reward/commendation/progression limitation that forces us to specialize in a particular area (or a handful of areas)? Or is it theoretically possible to "win the Duty Officer game" and get every bonus possible while continuously scoring new items and bridge/duty officers?
Note that for sector block assignments you only need to be in that sector block to begin the assignment - you can continue them in another sector block or even logged out, and you can get the results of a completed assignment from any sector block, not just the one where you initiated that assignment.
Are there any plans to put a DOff system interface on the STO website so we can do limited DOff stuff even while, say, at work? I realize something like that wouldn't offer complete functionality but just being able to check current DOff assignment progress (or even take on new assignments, within reason) while not logged in would be cool.
We're still working out the entire plan for how to introduce this. As you guys know, we're very tight on content resources at the moment, so right now we're trying to figure out the most efficient way that won't delay rollout of the system to teach people how to use the system.
Well I plan on making one in the Foundry once I've got enough time to get the basics down since I imagine most of the real testing will be balance and checking to make sure passives actually work and assignments work, etc. Videos never truly help folks like me because they're awkward to go back and forth on facts for some people. Having a Foundry mission with Dialog you can read side by side with the interface is much better for those of us who learn better by reading than being dictated to.
The Redshirt beta has a preliminary list of people who will be sent invites compiled, but even if you aren't on it I wouldn't worry too much - the Redshirt beta will likely only be a three week or so head start, then it will go on Tribble where any player can check the system out for another month or so before the system goes live.
I'll give you my wife's dog if you get me in on that
Are there any plans to put a DOff system interface on the STO website so we can do limited DOff stuff even while, say, at work? I realize something like that wouldn't offer complete functionality but just being able to check current DOff assignment progress (or even take on new assignments, within reason) while not logged in would be cool.
I hear it's been mentioned but would require additional resources. However, with PW they may like the idea of say, selling an iPad/Phone app that allows users to do this. I'd pay 5 bucks for such an app on my phone or pad...
The way it works is you have a set of "Shipboard" assignments and "Sector" (actually, sector block) assignments.
Was this changed, I recall you specifically saying each "sector (not sector block)" in a post somewhere in this thread. Or have I finally lost all real memory? The latter is entirely possible.
Are there any plans to put a DOff system interface on the STO website so we can do limited DOff stuff even while, say, at work? I realize something like that wouldn't offer complete functionality but just being able to check current DOff assignment progress (or even take on new assignments, within reason) while not logged in would be cool.
Z
Yes 1000 times yes, and make the site mobile friendly so I do it on my droid when I'm on a job.
Will the various commendation levels have an effect on future episodes. For example, if I am a tactical officer at tier1 in the science commendation, would I be able to complete the science objective for Stranded in Space? Having tiers in the Science commendation could work for the science objectives. Tiers in the Engineering commendation could work for the engineering objectives and tiers in the Military commendation could work for the tactical objective. Might even be possible to have the objectives require a minimum tier like Stranded in Space requires Tier 1 and Mine Enemy requires Tier 2.
I haven't read all of this thread yet... presently on page 33...
wanted to throw my two cents in on the shuttles launching VFX
What if, instead if Visuals of shuttles, there were audio cues.
you could recruit a few cryptic employees to record short voice-overs
Eng. heavy missions:
"Cargo stowed and Secured Ops, request clearance to depart"
Sci. heavy missions:
"Stasis field holding on internal power, standing by for departure clearance"
Tac. heavy mission:
"Once more into the breech gentlemen"
More general cues could come from your Comm Officer:
(Addressing player) "Shuttlecraft Spock has gone to warp"
(Addressing the departing Doffs) "Godspeed shuttlecraft Omega"
Or your engineer:
"Crew transfer complete, Warp speed available at your discretion Captain."
I'm assuming that you can make references to canon characters without too much hassle, (e.g. naming a shuttlecraft after a canon character, or making a trransfer to a famous canon ship, such as the Enterprise, Defiant, Etc.)
If about 20 or so sound bites can be created, you can play one when a player "Commits" Doffs and resources to a mission.
Will the various commendation levels have an effect on future episodes. For example, if I am a tactical officer at tier1 in the science commendation, would I be able to complete the science objective for Stranded in Space? Having tiers in the Science commendation could work for the science objectives. Tiers in the Engineering commendation could work for the engineering objectives and tiers in the Military commendation could work for the tactical objective. Might even be possible to have the objectives require a minimum tier like Stranded in Space requires Tier 1 and Mine Enemy requires Tier 2.
I get where you're coming from, but I think it would defeat the purpose of class-based objectives.
Plus imagine what it might be like with Science officers reading dialogue meant for an Engineering officer, for example.
Personally, though, I think missions should be designed around this kind of "Pick Your Path" story line anyway. If I feel like trying the Tactical option as a Science officer I should be able to do that, possibly with some disadvantage.
Will the various commendation levels have an effect on future episodes. For example, if I am a tactical officer at tier1 in the science commendation, would I be able to complete the science objective for Stranded in Space? Having tiers in the Science commendation could work for the science objectives. Tiers in the Engineering commendation could work for the engineering objectives and tiers in the Military commendation could work for the tactical objective. Might even be possible to have the objectives require a minimum tier like Stranded in Space requires Tier 1 and Mine Enemy requires Tier 2.
Wait. I've rethought this a bit.
What if, instead of a mission objective, you had the option to start a DO Assignment during the mission?
"This is the Captain. Beam over a Medical Team, immediately!"
If the assignment is successful, you get the accolade. If not, maybe you lost some of your DO's to environmental hazards.
I know that's not a near-term thing, but it would be sweet.
Is there going to be a comprehensive tutorial for the Duty Officer system? It looks interesting but I think we need more then a 2 minute video to explain it all to us when it launches.
I don't know about the devs but I could either do a series of video tutorials (like I did when the Foundry launched) or created a nice walk-through in Adobe InDesign and create a PDF.
The STO community is pretty good at filling gaps in documentation, whether oversight or due to resource constraints.
Is there some sort of reward/commendation/progression limitation that forces us to specialize in a particular area (or a handful of areas)? Or is it theoretically possible to "win the Duty Officer game" and get every bonus possible while continuously scoring new items and bridge/duty officers?
As far as commendation category progression, there currently is no limit other than that it would take a crazy amount of time to max out everything. That being said, we have discussed forced specialization and we may put that in depending on what we see happen on Redshirt and Tribble.
Are there any plans to put a DOff system interface on the STO website so we can do limited DOff stuff even while, say, at work? I realize something like that wouldn't offer complete functionality but just being able to check current DOff assignment progress (or even take on new assignments, within reason) while not logged in would be cool.
We would really like to do this sort of thing. There are both legal and developmental considerations that are complicating doing this; we are continuing to investigate this.
Will the various commendation levels have an effect on future episodes. For example, if I am a tactical officer at tier1 in the science commendation, would I be able to complete the science objective for Stranded in Space? Having tiers in the Science commendation could work for the science objectives. Tiers in the Engineering commendation could work for the engineering objectives and tiers in the Military commendation could work for the tactical objective. Might even be possible to have the objectives require a minimum tier like Stranded in Space requires Tier 1 and Mine Enemy requires Tier 2.
It is certainly possible for missions to take commendation category tiers into account; right now the emphasis is on integrating duty officer assignments directly into new missions. Once that happens, we may explore other forms of integration as well.
I would have to say forced specialization is a bad idea. It should be all about choice and my mood might change for what assignments I do. If I feel bloodthirsty, then I might want to do more military assignments. If I feel sneaky, then I might want to do more espionage assignments. If I am in a helpful mood, then I might want to do Medicine and Colonial assignments.
Different sectors should have an emphasis on certain commendation assignments. Military assignments should be nonexistent or almost nonexistent in the Sirius Sector, but should be more common in Eta Eridani or Gamma Orionis.
I have to say if it's even potentially possible for future game mechanics to take Commendation levels into account I'd ask that there not be an arbitrary limit on the commendations we can max out.
Not only does that give us who favor one character something to do that much longer but it would also suck as a player to hit a prompt and find I spent weeks or more leveling the "wrong" category.
That being said, we have discussed forced specialization and we may put that in depending on what we see happen on Redshirt and Tribble.
Probably better not to impose any artificial limits.
Keep in mind that a lot of people play games to get the next carrot. You can block carrots off for them, but that inevitably just means they're "done" faster. The more you leave open the more everyone has to potentially do.
I think time should be the only factor they may force us to specialize in a few commendation categories. It will give us something to do and work on during times when were waiting on new content and it gives us a way to continue to progress our characters after they have reached VA. Maxing out every commendation category may be a crazy goal but if its possible then we'll have something to keep building on. If you make us chose then we would hit the wall a lot sooner and not have a way of progressing again until the level cap is increased again.
I think time should be the only factor they may force us to specialize in a few commendation categories. It will give us something to do and work on during times when were waiting on new content and it gives us a way to continue to progress our characters after they have reached VA.
Exactly. It seems like one of the purposes of this system is to give people something to earn, to work towards, between content going live. Especially those at cap.
Since there are many players who will have, at this point, earner everything else there is to earn (that they might want) one can reasonably assume they'll focus on the DOff system when it launches, as it will be a bastion of unexplored territory. They will voraciously blaze through it as quickly as possible. The more you leave open to these people, the more they have to do.
Forcing specialization is really just going to limit that. Even if you set the goals ridiculously far apart someone will max it out. Some people are like that. The more you close the system off to them, the less you let them do, the quicker they "finish" and start asking... "What now?"
As far as commendation category progression, there currently is no limit other than that it would take a crazy amount of time to max out everything. That being said, we have discussed forced specialization and we may put that in depending on what we see happen on Redshirt and Tribble.
Add me to the no crowd regarding forced specialization. We need MORE options, not fewer. Let those who want to max out every single commendation category if they wish. Let it be extremely hard, but not impossible.
I am totally against forced specialisation!
It simply narrows the choices a player can make (same with the skill system that is limited)
So please do not make any limits on commendation categories. You could impose a harder curve the more commendation ranks you have. For example commendation rank 2 on diplomacy costs 200 commendation points. But if you want to get Espionage to rank 2 too, it could cost 250 commendation points.
So if you want to have that last commendation at max it would take tremendious amount of work to reach it but it would be doable. In addition it would still give a feel of you have to plan what to work towards primarily but you can always get everything (just dont make it to steep that the last rank 4 commendation takes 4-5 month's of pure grind to get)
Another no on the commendation specialization. And some justification for this:
You limit things that make characters more powerful, not just things that advance characters.
The skill system makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
Bridge and kit powers make characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit them.
The active roster makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
However, everything we've seen about commendation categories does not make characters more powerful (except so far as it contributes to the above). It adds all sorts of advancement options: titles, accolades, and in the case of diplomacy (presumably marauding as well) travel powers. The closest it gets to giving power is that it gives more doffs and boffs, but just having more doesn't make a character more powerful, since there's always a limit on how many can be contributing at any given time.
That kind of system, it doesn't really make sense or seem fair to players to arbitrarily limit.
On that subject, I also don't particularly think it needs or should be made to directly make players more powerful for the sake of limiting it. There's quite a bit of power creep in the game already to consider adding more on top of whatever the active roster is already adding. Also, if you allow us to, say, get max in three categories, many ambassadors ate up a third of their limits months before the limit even existing, and hypothetically based on the information in this thread, I'm not sure diplomacy would be a track I would choose if it meant excluding another.
People are going to max it. Even if it takes a while, they'll max it. But with everything we've seen, the only advantage it sounds like they'll have is having access to all of the unique commendation doffs. If the active roster adds enough power, or the unique doffs are just so good that having more of these is a tangible advantage, then either the doffs or the active roster itself are overtuned.
If limiting it is just a way to keep people from maxing it... well, all that really does is lower the ceiling. People still max it when they hit the limit.
Another no on the commendation specialization. And some justification for this:
You limit things that make characters more powerful, not just things that advance characters.
The skill system makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
Bridge and kit powers make characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit them.
The active roster makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
However, everything we've seen about commendation categories does not make characters more powerful (except so far as it contributes to the above). It adds all sorts of advancement options: titles, accolades, and in the case of diplomacy (presumably marauding as well) travel powers. The closest it gets to giving power is that it gives more doffs and boffs, but just having more doesn't make a character more powerful, since there's always a limit on how many can be contributing at any given time.
That kind of system, it doesn't really make sense or seem fair to players to arbitrarily limit.
The limit could be due to the size of the data store needed if potentially every character of every player was to use this system.. So could be a economical disadvantage to have it limitless
Another no on the commendation specialization. And some justification for this:
You limit things that make characters more powerful, not just things that advance characters.
The skill system makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
Bridge and kit powers make characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit them.
The active roster makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
...
... I was going to make a comment on the sill system, but meh it doesn't really belong here.
The relevant discussions are linked in my sig...
Onto less off-topic matters...
Someone was talking about boarding party earlier... And I had a thought.
You send off unnamed crew and they either succeed or fail, by affecting the enemy or getting shot down..
Heh. I suppose I walked right into that one without even meaning to.
First, let me emphasize that I agree with all of your reasoning as to why we want to avoid specialization in tiering commendation categories. You have all listed many good reasons, and that is why this initial iteration does not, it should be noted, have any such specialization requirements.
That being said, there are certain design considerations that could make this necessary. Emphasis - could. I think this is an outside possibility, and am fairly confident we can avoid them.
The issue comes down, ultimately, to pacing. The commendation category progression system must provide a sense of achievable progression for both the casual player as well as the hardcore player of the system. Moreover, that progression must be linked to tangible rewards that feel equitable to the effort expended in getting them.
Every assignment successfully completed grants rewards, usually numerics, sometimes more substantial things in the nature of unique duty officers, items, devices and anything else we can put together.
In addition to these per-assignment rewards, when you hit a tier in the commendation system, there has to be a reason why you care. That is, more rewards, or the opening up of more opportunities to get better rewards than you were able to get before you hit that commendation tier. Titles, unique duty and bridge officers, accolades, and so on are already on the page, but we want to avoid the situation that some have complained with the Diplomacy system where the rewards do not seem to justify the effort expended.
Now, in an ideal world we would have unlimited resources for rewards and could simply make the progression path and rewards virtually infinite with a multitude of rewards.
Obviously, we don't have unlimited resources for rewards, so instead we have to meter them in a way that achieves all of the above goals - pacing that feels fair for the effort expended, a high ceiling for hardcore players, low-hanging enough rewards for more casual players, rewards for individual assignments, additional rewards for tiering.
In addition to all of this, this first iteration is intended to be only the beginning, and we have later plans that all of this has to feed into and support; some of these plans we have been able to hint at, other aspects we aren't ready quite yet to talk about.
What does this mean?
This first iteration has no limitations on how many commendation categories you can advance in, nor any limits (other than the standard Tier 4 limitation) on what a player can achieve. We are trying very hard to keep it this way. As testing progresses on Redshirt, Tribble, and the system is rolled out to Holodeck, we will be looking very closely at many factors including how fast players are progressing, the delta between casual users of the system and hardcore users, and reported levels of satisfaction and perceived fairness of the system.
Ultimately, we will go with the specific mechanics that we feel are best serving the community in these goals. Hopefully, we will be able to structure the progression in this system in such a way that whether you are a casual user of the system or a hardcore user, you feel satisfied with the system. I think this is an achievable goal. I think, moreover, that it is more likely than not that we can do this without hard limits.
The goal is to make a system you guys enjoy. Let's see how it plays out in testing, and go on from what we all learn there.
Heh. I suppose I walked right into that one without even meaning to.
First, let me emphasize that I agree with all of your reasoning as to why we want to avoid specialization in tiering commendation categories. You have all listed many good reasons, and that is why this initial iteration does not, it should be noted, have any such specialization requirements.
That being said, there are certain design considerations that could make this necessary. Emphasis - could. I think this is an outside possibility, and am fairly confident we can avoid them.
The issue comes down, ultimately, to pacing. The commendation category progression system must provide a sense of achievable progression for both the casual player as well as the hardcore player of the system. Moreover, that progression must be linked to tangible rewards that feel equitable to the effort expended in getting them.
Every assignment successfully completed grants rewards, usually numerics, sometimes more substantial things in the nature of unique duty officers, items, devices and anything else we can put together.
In addition to these per-assignment rewards, when you hit a tier in the commendation system, there has to be a reason why you care. That is, more rewards, or the opening up of more opportunities to get better rewards than you were able to get before you hit that commendation tier. Titles, unique duty and bridge officers, accolades, and so on are already on the page, but we want to avoid the situation that some have complained with the Diplomacy system where the rewards do not seem to justify the effort expended.
Now, in an ideal world, we would have unlimited resources for rewards, and could simply make the progression path and rewards virtually infinite with a multitude of rewards that even a relatively casual player could progress through such that that player feels the system is a worthwhile investment of their time.
Obviously, we don't have unlimited resources for rewards or anything else, so we have to meter them in a way that achieves all of the above goals - pacing that feels fair for the effort expended, a high ceiling for hardcore players, low-hanging enough rewards for more casual players, rewards for individual assignments, additional rewards for tiering.
In addition to all of this, this first iteration is intended to be only the beginning, and we have later plans that all of this has to feed into and support; some of these plans we have been able to hint at, other aspects we aren't ready quite yet to talk about.
What does this mean?
This first iteration has no limitations on how many commendation categories you can advance in, nor any limits (other than the standard Tier 4 limitation) on what a player can achieve. We are trying very hard to keep it this way. As testing progresses on Redshirt, Tribble, and the system is rolled out to Holodeck, we will be looking at these factors, including how fast players are progressing, the delta between casual users of the system and hardcore users, reported levels of satisfaction and perceived fairness of the system.
Ultimately, we will go with the specific mechanics that we feel are best serving the community in these goals. Hopefully, we will be able to structure the progression in this system in such a way that whether you are a casual user of the system or a hardcore user, you feel satisfied with the system. I think this is an achievable goal. I think, moreover, that it is more likely than not that we can do this without hard limits.
The goal is to make a system you guys enjoy. Let's see how it plays out in testing, and go from what we all learn there.
Another no on the commendation specialization. And some justification for this:
You limit things that make characters more powerful, not just things that advance characters.
The skill system makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
Bridge and kit powers make characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit them.
The active roster makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
However, everything we've seen about commendation categories does not make characters more powerful (except so far as it contributes to the above). It adds all sorts of advancement options: titles, accolades, and in the case of diplomacy (presumably marauding as well) travel powers. The closest it gets to giving power is that it gives more doffs and boffs, but just having more doesn't make a character more powerful, since there's always a limit on how many can be contributing at any given time.
That kind of system, it doesn't really make sense or seem fair to players to arbitrarily limit.
On that subject, I also don't particularly think it needs or should be made to directly make players more powerful for the sake of limiting it. There's quite a bit of power creep in the game already to consider adding more on top of whatever the active roster is already adding. Also, if you allow us to, say, get max in three categories, many ambassadors ate up a third of their limits months before the limit even existing, and hypothetically based on the information in this thread, I'm not sure diplomacy would be a track I would choose if it meant excluding another.
People are going to max it. Even if it takes a while, they'll max it. But with everything we've seen, the only advantage it sounds like they'll have is having access to all of the unique commendation doffs. If the active roster adds enough power, or the unique doffs are just so good that having more of these is a tangible advantage, then either the doffs or the active roster itself are overtuned.
If limiting it is just a way to keep people from maxing it... well, all that really does is lower the ceiling. People still max it when they hit the limit.
Heh. I suppose I walked right into that one without even meaning to.
First, let me emphasize that I agree with all of your reasoning as to why we want to avoid specialization in tiering commendation categories. You have all listed many good reasons, and that is why this initial iteration does not, it should be noted, have any such specialization requirements.
That being said, there are certain design considerations that could make this necessary. Emphasis - could. I think this is an outside possibility, and am fairly confident we can avoid them.
The issue comes down, ultimately, to pacing. The commendation category progression system must provide a sense of achievable progression for both the casual player as well as the hardcore player of the system. Moreover, that progression must be linked to tangible rewards that feel equitable to the effort expended in getting them.
Every assignment successfully completed grants rewards, usually numerics, sometimes more substantial things in the nature of unique duty officers, items, devices and anything else we can put together.
In addition to these per-assignment rewards, when you hit a tier in the commendation system, there has to be a reason why you care. That is, more rewards, or the opening up of more opportunities to get better rewards than you were able to get before you hit that commendation tier. Titles, unique duty and bridge officers, accolades, and so on are already on the page, but we want to avoid the situation that some have complained with the Diplomacy system where the rewards do not seem to justify the effort expended.
Now, in an ideal world we would have unlimited resources for rewards and could simply make the progression path and rewards virtually infinite with a multitude of rewards.
Obviously, we don't have unlimited resources for rewards, so instead we have to meter them in a way that achieves all of the above goals - pacing that feels fair for the effort expended, a high ceiling for hardcore players, low-hanging enough rewards for more casual players, rewards for individual assignments, additional rewards for tiering.
In addition to all of this, this first iteration is intended to be only the beginning, and we have later plans that all of this has to feed into and support; some of these plans we have been able to hint at, other aspects we aren't ready quite yet to talk about.
What does this mean?
This first iteration has no limitations on how many commendation categories you can advance in, nor any limits (other than the standard Tier 4 limitation) on what a player can achieve. We are trying very hard to keep it this way. As testing progresses on Redshirt, Tribble, and the system is rolled out to Holodeck, we will be looking very closely at many factors including how fast players are progressing, the delta between casual users of the system and hardcore users, reported levels of satisfaction and perceived fairness of the system.
Ultimately, we will go with the specific mechanics that we feel are best serving the community in these goals. Hopefully, we will be able to structure the progression in this system in such a way that whether you are a casual user of the system or a hardcore user, you feel satisfied with the system. I think this is an achievable goal. I think, moreover, that it is more likely than not that we can do this without hard limits.
The goal is to make a system you guys enjoy. Let's see how it plays out in testing, and go on from what we all learn there.
I find people will specialize themselves. In most MMOs with crafting categories, crafters only max out a few. Most of the players that use Duty Officer assignments will have a few favorites so there is no need for forced specialization IMO.
Agreed. Most, if not all, players will try all of them but some players *cough* roleplayers *cough* will post their own limitations at high tiers. Even then, will still play others.
I find people will specialize themselves. In most MMOs with crafting categories, crafters only max out a few. Most of the players that use Duty Officer assignments will have a few favorites so there is no need for forced specialization IMO.
Agreed. While it should still be open to the people who want it all, most people would most likely just stick with a few commendation categories. This would be particularly true for those who like to roleplay.
Comments
Are there any plans to put a DOff system interface on the STO website so we can do limited DOff stuff even while, say, at work?
Z
Well I plan on making one in the Foundry once I've got enough time to get the basics down since I imagine most of the real testing will be balance and checking to make sure passives actually work and assignments work, etc. Videos never truly help folks like me because they're awkward to go back and forth on facts for some people. Having a Foundry mission with Dialog you can read side by side with the interface is much better for those of us who learn better by reading than being dictated to.
I'll give you my wife's dog if you get me in on that
I hear it's been mentioned but would require additional resources. However, with PW they may like the idea of say, selling an iPad/Phone app that allows users to do this. I'd pay 5 bucks for such an app on my phone or pad...
Was this changed, I recall you specifically saying each "sector (not sector block)" in a post somewhere in this thread. Or have I finally lost all real memory? The latter is entirely possible.
Yes 1000 times yes, and make the site mobile friendly so I do it on my droid when I'm on a job.
wanted to throw my two cents in on the shuttles launching VFX
What if, instead if Visuals of shuttles, there were audio cues.
you could recruit a few cryptic employees to record short voice-overs
Eng. heavy missions:
"Cargo stowed and Secured Ops, request clearance to depart"
Sci. heavy missions:
"Stasis field holding on internal power, standing by for departure clearance"
Tac. heavy mission:
"Once more into the breech gentlemen"
More general cues could come from your Comm Officer:
(Addressing player) "Shuttlecraft Spock has gone to warp"
(Addressing the departing Doffs) "Godspeed shuttlecraft Omega"
Or your engineer:
"Crew transfer complete, Warp speed available at your discretion Captain."
I'm assuming that you can make references to canon characters without too much hassle, (e.g. naming a shuttlecraft after a canon character, or making a trransfer to a famous canon ship, such as the Enterprise, Defiant, Etc.)
If about 20 or so sound bites can be created, you can play one when a player "Commits" Doffs and resources to a mission.
I get where you're coming from, but I think it would defeat the purpose of class-based objectives.
Plus imagine what it might be like with Science officers reading dialogue meant for an Engineering officer, for example.
Personally, though, I think missions should be designed around this kind of "Pick Your Path" story line anyway. If I feel like trying the Tactical option as a Science officer I should be able to do that, possibly with some disadvantage.
Wait. I've rethought this a bit.
What if, instead of a mission objective, you had the option to start a DO Assignment during the mission?
"This is the Captain. Beam over a Medical Team, immediately!"
If the assignment is successful, you get the accolade. If not, maybe you lost some of your DO's to environmental hazards.
I know that's not a near-term thing, but it would be sweet.
The STO community is pretty good at filling gaps in documentation, whether oversight or due to resource constraints.
As far as commendation category progression, there currently is no limit other than that it would take a crazy amount of time to max out everything. That being said, we have discussed forced specialization and we may put that in depending on what we see happen on Redshirt and Tribble.
We would really like to do this sort of thing. There are both legal and developmental considerations that are complicating doing this; we are continuing to investigate this.
It is certainly possible for missions to take commendation category tiers into account; right now the emphasis is on integrating duty officer assignments directly into new missions. Once that happens, we may explore other forms of integration as well.
The first page should have all the juicy info. Heretic updates it regularly.
Z
Different sectors should have an emphasis on certain commendation assignments. Military assignments should be nonexistent or almost nonexistent in the Sirius Sector, but should be more common in Eta Eridani or Gamma Orionis.
Not only does that give us who favor one character something to do that much longer but it would also suck as a player to hit a prompt and find I spent weeks or more leveling the "wrong" category.
Probably better not to impose any artificial limits.
Keep in mind that a lot of people play games to get the next carrot. You can block carrots off for them, but that inevitably just means they're "done" faster. The more you leave open the more everyone has to potentially do.
Probably best not to close those doors.
Exactly. It seems like one of the purposes of this system is to give people something to earn, to work towards, between content going live. Especially those at cap.
Since there are many players who will have, at this point, earner everything else there is to earn (that they might want) one can reasonably assume they'll focus on the DOff system when it launches, as it will be a bastion of unexplored territory. They will voraciously blaze through it as quickly as possible. The more you leave open to these people, the more they have to do.
Forcing specialization is really just going to limit that. Even if you set the goals ridiculously far apart someone will max it out. Some people are like that. The more you close the system off to them, the less you let them do, the quicker they "finish" and start asking... "What now?"
Add me to the no crowd regarding forced specialization. We need MORE options, not fewer. Let those who want to max out every single commendation category if they wish. Let it be extremely hard, but not impossible.
It simply narrows the choices a player can make (same with the skill system that is limited)
So please do not make any limits on commendation categories. You could impose a harder curve the more commendation ranks you have. For example commendation rank 2 on diplomacy costs 200 commendation points. But if you want to get Espionage to rank 2 too, it could cost 250 commendation points.
So if you want to have that last commendation at max it would take tremendious amount of work to reach it but it would be doable. In addition it would still give a feel of you have to plan what to work towards primarily but you can always get everything (just dont make it to steep that the last rank 4 commendation takes 4-5 month's of pure grind to get)
You limit things that make characters more powerful, not just things that advance characters.
The skill system makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
Bridge and kit powers make characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit them.
The active roster makes characters more powerful, it makes sense to limit that.
However, everything we've seen about commendation categories does not make characters more powerful (except so far as it contributes to the above). It adds all sorts of advancement options: titles, accolades, and in the case of diplomacy (presumably marauding as well) travel powers. The closest it gets to giving power is that it gives more doffs and boffs, but just having more doesn't make a character more powerful, since there's always a limit on how many can be contributing at any given time.
That kind of system, it doesn't really make sense or seem fair to players to arbitrarily limit.
On that subject, I also don't particularly think it needs or should be made to directly make players more powerful for the sake of limiting it. There's quite a bit of power creep in the game already to consider adding more on top of whatever the active roster is already adding. Also, if you allow us to, say, get max in three categories, many ambassadors ate up a third of their limits months before the limit even existing, and hypothetically based on the information in this thread, I'm not sure diplomacy would be a track I would choose if it meant excluding another.
People are going to max it. Even if it takes a while, they'll max it. But with everything we've seen, the only advantage it sounds like they'll have is having access to all of the unique commendation doffs. If the active roster adds enough power, or the unique doffs are just so good that having more of these is a tangible advantage, then either the doffs or the active roster itself are overtuned.
If limiting it is just a way to keep people from maxing it... well, all that really does is lower the ceiling. People still max it when they hit the limit.
The limit could be due to the size of the data store needed if potentially every character of every player was to use this system.. So could be a economical disadvantage to have it limitless
The relevant discussions are linked in my sig...
Onto less off-topic matters...
Someone was talking about boarding party earlier... And I had a thought.
You send off unnamed crew and they either succeed or fail, by affecting the enemy or getting shot down..
Alpha doff system? XD
I mean it is similar ^_^
First, let me emphasize that I agree with all of your reasoning as to why we want to avoid specialization in tiering commendation categories. You have all listed many good reasons, and that is why this initial iteration does not, it should be noted, have any such specialization requirements.
That being said, there are certain design considerations that could make this necessary. Emphasis - could. I think this is an outside possibility, and am fairly confident we can avoid them.
The issue comes down, ultimately, to pacing. The commendation category progression system must provide a sense of achievable progression for both the casual player as well as the hardcore player of the system. Moreover, that progression must be linked to tangible rewards that feel equitable to the effort expended in getting them.
Every assignment successfully completed grants rewards, usually numerics, sometimes more substantial things in the nature of unique duty officers, items, devices and anything else we can put together.
In addition to these per-assignment rewards, when you hit a tier in the commendation system, there has to be a reason why you care. That is, more rewards, or the opening up of more opportunities to get better rewards than you were able to get before you hit that commendation tier. Titles, unique duty and bridge officers, accolades, and so on are already on the page, but we want to avoid the situation that some have complained with the Diplomacy system where the rewards do not seem to justify the effort expended.
Now, in an ideal world we would have unlimited resources for rewards and could simply make the progression path and rewards virtually infinite with a multitude of rewards.
Obviously, we don't have unlimited resources for rewards, so instead we have to meter them in a way that achieves all of the above goals - pacing that feels fair for the effort expended, a high ceiling for hardcore players, low-hanging enough rewards for more casual players, rewards for individual assignments, additional rewards for tiering.
In addition to all of this, this first iteration is intended to be only the beginning, and we have later plans that all of this has to feed into and support; some of these plans we have been able to hint at, other aspects we aren't ready quite yet to talk about.
What does this mean?
This first iteration has no limitations on how many commendation categories you can advance in, nor any limits (other than the standard Tier 4 limitation) on what a player can achieve. We are trying very hard to keep it this way. As testing progresses on Redshirt, Tribble, and the system is rolled out to Holodeck, we will be looking very closely at many factors including how fast players are progressing, the delta between casual users of the system and hardcore users, and reported levels of satisfaction and perceived fairness of the system.
Ultimately, we will go with the specific mechanics that we feel are best serving the community in these goals. Hopefully, we will be able to structure the progression in this system in such a way that whether you are a casual user of the system or a hardcore user, you feel satisfied with the system. I think this is an achievable goal. I think, moreover, that it is more likely than not that we can do this without hard limits.
The goal is to make a system you guys enjoy. Let's see how it plays out in testing, and go on from what we all learn there.
*cough, C-points,cough* Was worth a try....;)
This. No forced or limited specialization please.
Thanks for the update.
Back on page 25 I already proposed dimishing returns on comendation XP based on how far you've progressed.
Agreed. While it should still be open to the people who want it all, most people would most likely just stick with a few commendation categories. This would be particularly true for those who like to roleplay.