Wow is dual pay (seems people want to make the comparisons) You have a monthly fee and in order to get to new areas and advance your toon you have to buy an expansion every few months/years.
Years would be accurate (2-3). Because you basically re-pay the retail fee when the game essentially becomes a new game. No one has a problem with that because there's a line drawn in the sand that says: "play the same old game, or pay X dollars and experience much more."
WoW expansions are fundamental changes to the game, usually, and they offer *years* of content. Not all at release, though there's a lot, but as updates between the major expansions (monthly sub yields something; see the point here?). It's quite different than a chain quest called an episode, which provides a couple hours of fun versus fundamental changes to the core of the game, new tiers of content, and generally a large increment to the game play.
I'm not vouching for WoW, here. You brought it up, so I'm only saying those are apples and these are oranges. STO costs more to play than WoW and is years and years behind in content (understandable, as it's an infant in terms of the industry -- however, why does it cost more?).
WoW has a digital store with 6 items. 5 are pets, and one is a mount. That's my idea of a non-essential fluff. A friggin ship (the player avatar itself, hello) that can cloak on a faction that does not have cloaking is a far cry different.
I don't play WoW for a reason and I play this game for a reason. I'm a trekkie. Of course I don't have to buy stuff in the C-Store, I can just happily ignore and it and play my game, but we're trekkies. We love star trek canon, that's why we play a... star trek themed game. Not to mention, what's been added since Season 3 and the Reman quest chain? C-Store stuff. It's new content. It's something to look at, something to do. Something to tinker with. And my $15 doesn't buy it. Another $15 might, though, right?
Goodies in the C-Store feed that love for Trek, and I'm not sure if it's cruelty or sheer greed that have driven Cryptic's pricing policy, but it's lopsided. And to throw in the most recent "FOR A LIMITED TIME!" scheme is, well, you decide. I have, and I think it's stupid.
Fortunately for me, I'm not a TOS guy. At all. But if that was a TNG set, I'd be very disappointed in Cryptic. Hell, it's not and I still am simply because of the implication:
You've already bought the box game for $60, you pay your $15 a month... want this really sweet set of Trek Lore because you LOVE trek (hence why you're playing this and not EVE or some other space MMO). Pay $15 more!!!"
Not, "here's a special quest chain that is time-travel based and will happen to reward you with these TOS items we threw together on the side...."
Instead, "Money. Give."
How can you seriously say things that should probably be in the game to begin with, you'd rather pay extra for? Does your elitism "gotta" have it factor outweigh all sense of rationale? It's not that I can't afford the C-Store stuff, I could buy it all right now and a lifetime sub, but that's not the point. No one should have to, you pay them already.
Wow is dual pay (seems people want to make the comparisons) You have a monthly fee and in order to get to new areas and advance your toon you have to buy an expansion every few months/years.
Correct me if I am wrong, but WoW has three expansion packs in seven years, right? At $39 each that is a about $117 on top of the sub price. If you count up every game item in the STO c-store there is about $350 worth of stuff.
Years would be accurate (2-3). Because you basically re-pay the retail fee when the game essentially becomes a new game. No one has a problem with that because there's a line drawn in the sand that says: "play the same old game, or pay X dollars and experience much more."
WoW expansions are fundamental changes to the game, usually, and they offer *years* of content. Not all at release, though there's a lot, but as updates between the major expansions (monthly sub yields something; see the point here?). It's quite different than a chain quest called an episode, which provides a couple hours of fun versus fundamental changes to the core of the game, new tiers of content, and generally a large increment to the game play.
I'm not vouching for WoW, here. You brought it up, so I'm only saying those are apples and these are oranges. STO costs more to play than WoW and is years and years behind in content (understandable, as it's an infant in terms of the industry -- however, why does it cost more?).
WoW has a digital store with 6 items. 5 are pets, and one is a mount. That's my idea of a non-essential fluff. A friggin ship (the player avatar itself, hello) that can cloak on a faction that does not have cloaking is a far cry different.
I don't play WoW for a reason and I play this game for a reason. I'm a trekkie. Of course I don't have to buy stuff in the C-Store, I can just happily ignore and it and play my game, but we're trekkies. We love star trek canon, that's why we play a... star trek themed game. Not to mention, what's been added since Season 3 and the Reman quest chain? C-Store stuff. It's new content. It's something to look at, something to do. Something to tinker with. And my $15 doesn't buy it. Another $15 might, though, right?
Goodies in the C-Store feed that love for Trek, and I'm not sure if it's cruelty or sheer greed that have driven Cryptic's pricing policy, but it's lopsided. And to throw in the most recent "FOR A LIMITED TIME!" scheme is, well, you decide. I have, and I think it's stupid.
Fortunately for me, I'm not a TOS guy. At all. But if that was a TNG set, I'd be very disappointed in Cryptic. Hell, it's not and I still am simply because of the implication:
You've already bought the box game for $60, you pay your $15 a month... want this really sweet set of Trek Lore because you LOVE trek (hence why you're playing this and not EVE or some other space MMO). Pay $15 more!!!"
Not, "here's a special quest chain that is time-travel based and will happen to reward you with these TOS items we threw together on the side...."
Instead, "Money. Give."
How can you seriously say things that should probably be in the game to begin with, you'd rather pay extra for? Does your elitism "gotta" have it factor outweigh all sense of rationale? It's not that I can't afford the C-Store stuff, I could buy it all right now and a lifetime sub, but that's not the point. No one should have to, you pay them already.
You're getting screwed. And you love them for it?
NOTHING in the C-Store is required to play the game, to reach max level, or to play all the content. Other MMO's require you to buy an expansion back to reach max level and access content. I guess I would rather have a C-Store than not have a full game.
Correct me if I am wrong, but WoW has three expansion packs, right? At $39 each that is a about $117 on top of the sub price. If you count up every game item in the STO c-store there is about $350 worth of stuff.
WoW has a C-Store as well for pets and other minor stuff. Put that in your total as well.
As well as a card game exclusives that your have to spend real world money on a CCG to get.
Im not sure why you would be so pleased about that. I for one would rather have to pay £15 every 6 months/12 for an expansion and have all the stuff in the c-store for free.
I have stated this on many of the C-store threads and always get negative responses.
To me, this makes more sense, i would rather wait 6/12/18 mos and get a full expansion for 30 U.S. dollars, then pay for each and every little thing that's added to the game.
How do you figure? Someone purchasing a LTS just before or at launch is no longer paying for the game nor will they pay a monthly sub again, ever. How do you anticipate Cryptic making any money off those people? Via an expansion they may or may not buy? Perhaps by having a C-Store with fluff items they are more than likely going to buy? Or should Cryptic continue to evolve the game and add to it for free out of the kindness of their hearts because this is a Star Trek game?
C-STORE IS BOGUS AND UNFAIR AND (sneaks off to by the new ToS Pack) A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND (notices that the Bajoran Militia Uniforms and the Oberth are available next month) I CALL SHENANIGANS ON THE WHOLE THING.
C-STORE IS BOGUS AND UNFAIR AND (sneaks off to by the new ToS Pack) A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND (notices that the Bajoran Militia Uniforms and the Oberth are available next month) I CALL SHENANIGANS ON THE WHOLE THING.
lol
I was thinking that. I mean, the TOS pack doesn't even make sense in game.
C-STORE IS BOGUS AND UNFAIR AND (sneaks off to by the new ToS Pack) A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND (notices that the Bajoran Militia Uniforms and the Oberth are available next month) I CALL SHENANIGANS ON THE WHOLE THING.
It has the NCSoft store which is nearly the same thing.
(saying nearly because when you look at the prices you might feel the C-Store is a bargain)
I'm sorry Chat but I'm wondering how you define a bargain.
Our C-store has 83 items totalling roughly 30,000 points or $375 dollars
Their store has 17 items totalling $199.83.
So where is the bargain?
Are you referring to individual items? The average item in their store which are boosters (What we call bundle packs) costs $9.99, and we have individual items that are far more expensive than that.
Correct me if I am wrong, but WoW has three expansion packs in seven years, right? At $39 each that is a about $117 on top of the sub price. If you count up every game item in the STO c-store there is about $350 worth of stuff.
Heh, how little you know. You see, if you want the full warcraft story, you have to buy the full series of books, because since cataclysm, they dont bother to explain anything in game anymore. Someone asked on the WoW forums a while ago what happened to a faction leader NPC and a blizzard rep posted basically saying if he wanted to know, he had to buy the book. And lets not forget the vanity pets at $20 each, and their flying star pony mount for $25 and another flying mount coming soon for $25.. and they sell action figures and plush toys, T-shirts etc.
Typically nobody buys everything in the C-store.. I just got a few things i wanted w/ the 500 points i got for buying the game. So my TNG uniforms and borg officer came w/ the game as far as im concerned.
You had to pay for the FEs in the C-Store? Curious... I did not see them in there.
Nobody said anything about paying for FE, but since were gonna use that as a comparison, lets do so.
Ok, FE, last generally 4-6 weeks, of 1hour of play time per week. That's 6 hours, lets say ten hours for those that take their time.
Now lets use a expansion for the 100 ton gorilla.
Usually around 40 Dollars, has content, that even if you get a guild to power level you to max level, is around 24-30 hours of play, skipping 90% of the additional content. This content includes generally, 3-4 new zones, 3-4 new end game instances, that require many many days if not weeks to do. The content usually keeps even the most die hard fan of that game happy for months
Quest chain content alone is upwards of 100 hours of game play, all for the 40 dollar or so out lay.
Don't get me wrong, i love this game, its Star Trek, but, you have to admit, that more and more people are getting upset over the way the C-store is becoming the focus of what passes for new content. You can say all you want that people aren't required to buy it to play, and you would be correct. But what fun is playing a game that even after a year barely has 150 missions total, and then to see every month new stuff, but you have to pay.
How do you figure? Someone purchasing a LTS just before or at launch is no longer paying for the game nor will they pay a monthly sub again, ever. How do you anticipate Cryptic making any money off those people? Via an expansion they may or may not buy? Perhaps by having a C-Store with fluff items they are more than likely going to buy? Or should Cryptic continue to evolve the game and add to it for free out of the kindness of their hearts because this is a Star Trek game?
Business is business. You trade huge upfront profit for longterm incentives. It's a huge gamble on both parties behalf -- maybe the game will live 10 years and that customer will play every day for those 10 years. On the other hand, look at Hellgate: London lifers. The game lasted 8 months and folded. Boy, they got owned.
At some point along a the timeline, the customer will profit from Cryptic. They have to, otherwise there's no incentive to buy lifetime. That timeline has not yet been reached, and probably won't for another year or so. Every dollar they make off you from the C-Store extends their profitability margin substantially.
That's all fine and dandy, but at what point do customers start going... "hey, wait a minute..." and making a fuss? Well, hell, they already are. I'm very happy for you that you have not yet reached that point. I was going to buy a LTS, but I witnessed what happened to Hellgate London lifers, and I had pause. At this point, it's not remotely a logical decision for me to bother with a lifetime sub, especially since I know I'll just spend more in the C-Store on top of the 300 something bucks I'll drop immediately. It's overpriced, no way around it.
It's a not a kindness of the heart thing, it's moral principle. Here's what I see, and I don't know jack-TRIBBLE (I readily admit this).
1) People are very mixed about the C-Store. If you aren't indifferent to it, you probably don't care for it.
2) People want fluffy stuff and mechanical stuff (yes, some of it is very mechanical) that appears in the C-Store.
3) There's a general lack of content across the board.
Man, I must just suck at business, but my instinct in such a situation would be: Make content available to players that awards things similar to what appears in the C-Store. On a regular basis.
For example, the retro-weapons from the devidian missions. Genius.
Reman themed things from the Reman episodes. Great idea.
Why stop there? Why put forth just enough effort to say you did something, then fall back on publishing C-Store only content for a couple weeks/months until the next season is available?
That's just a bad model. Dstahl needs to can the seasonal updates and just sectionally introduce content as it becomes ready. Instead of releasing expansions every year or two, he's trying to do it like every quarter. They said they're not into making expansions, but that's exactly what they're doing; and not getting expansion fees at the time of release.
Every week they do not release content everyone can enjoy they risk sinking their subscription numbers because people get bored of the same ol' and get distracted elsewhere, and they will eventually show it with their wallet. I know this is valid, because they wouldn't otherwise be pumping C-Store stuff at the rate they are, for just the reason you said shard: A lot of their players happen to be LTS (people already deeply invested), and they can turn a few more bones on them.
Of all of us subbers, you've probably paid the most at this point. I admire you defending your investment (I would too, and I'd love to defend STO because it's a good game, overall), but you have to see at least some truth in that?
Don't get me wrong, i love this game, its Star Trek, but, you have to admit, that more and more people are getting upset over the way the C-store is becoming the focus of what passes for new content. You can say all you want that people aren't required to buy it to play, and you would be correct. But what fun is playing a game that even after a year barely has 150 missions total, and then to see every month new stuff, but you have to pay.
This isn't target towards completely disarming your argument, but from what I've seen on the forums, more and more people are calming down about the matter. This is the first thread I've seen in a long, long time about the C-Store.
you have to admit, that more and more people are getting upset over the way the C-store is becoming the focus of what passes for new content.
I disagree entirely. Reading the Engineering reports, articles and interviews and listening to Dev comments in interviews from various Podcasts, it would seem to me that their focus is on increasing free content to the game and adding more and more things to do and making the game better.
You can say all you want that people aren't required to buy it to play, and you would be correct. But what fun is playing a game that even after a year barely has 150 missions total, and then to see every month new stuff, but you have to pay.
This part of your post does not make much sense at all. You acknowledge you do not need anything from the C-Store, so what is the problem if more gets added to it?
How much of your $15 a month do you believe goes directly toward devloping new content and not paying for other things, such as servers, advertising etc.? Would you be surprised if it is a whole lot less than you think?
Yes it is. They are in the business to make money. You totally ignored the question; how do you expect Cryptic to make money off of a Lifetime Subscriber who is not and will never again pay a subscription fee?
Yes it is. They are in the business to make money. You totally ignored the question; how do you expect Cryptic to make money off of a Lifetime Subscriber who is not and will never again pay a subscription fee?
If you paid for a LTS at launch, you are no longer paying a monthly fee, so as of right now you are playing for free. Cryptic is are no longer making any money off you, nor will they ever collect another cent from you.
How do you expect them to make money off these people now? A year from now? 5 years from now?
If you paid for a LTS at launch, you are no longer paying a monthly fee, so as of right now you are playing for free. Cryptic is are no longer making any money off you, nor will they ever collect another cent from you.
How do you expect them to make money off these people now? A year from now? 5 years from now?
If a regular subber paid $50 for the game at launch, he'd have to pay for around 14 months of play time in order to meet the amount you paid immediately. In 14 months, a lot could happen. Game could fold and close down, player could cancel, the list goes on.
They traded long term investment from you for upfront investment. In order to recoup the millions of dollars during development (read: 0 profit), they gave up the potential profit (read: great risk) off you 2 years from then to have it all in their bank RIGHT NOW.
This is like gaming business 101. It's pretty easy. Your questioning about profit from LTS years from now doesn't even apply.
if you think about it an 8 hour XP Boost of 20% only gives you an advantage of 1 hour 30 minutes.
and that is only if you use those 8 hours to POWER LEVEL.
if you stand arround ESD for only half an hour to manage your inventory you allready lost a big part of your bonus XP.
also i just leveld up a FED Char to VA1
i played all the Featured Episodes, used my Free 8 hour XP Bonus and STILL ran out of content before i hit max level and hat to do other stuff before Gamma Orionis.
If a FED can't level up 100% with Episode and Patrol missions only, by now, then Klingons still have looooong way to get there.
If you paid for a LTS at launch, you are no longer paying a monthly fee, so as of right now you are playing for free. Cryptic is are no longer making any money off you, nor will they ever collect another cent from you.
How do you expect them to make money off these people now? A year from now? 5 years from now?
Maybe its a failure of the LTS model, and not the player bases fault?
If in my real world business, i ever sold a LTS for the services i provide, i would know,
1) i better have a truly awesome advertisement plan to get new people continually, and
2) i could not ever offer such a price plan again.
3) That my existing customers would expect anything i added to the service to be included in their price plan.
But honestly, that's not what the jist is about, it is disheartening to continually see new items added to the C-store, that far out weigh any new free in game content. The few things we can acquire through in game means, requires months of grinding emblems, unless your the rare individual who can play for 10 hours a day.
But, anyway, imo, its just another example of a semi good idea going to the extreme and no longer being a good idea, at least not in a P2P model, it comes off as wanting the best of both models, and does create dissent amongst the player base.
1) LTSers don't suddenly become "free" after 16 or 20 months, we paid for that time, we just paid a heckuva lot less for it
2) It has only been 14 months since game start (thats 14 x 15= $210)
What he ^ said, and don't forget that many, many people that were around at launch bought not only the CE 60 plus dollars, but also bought the LE from many other distributors. Some people literally paid twice the figure you use of 250$ before even buying the LTS.
OK serioulsy tired of hearing the complaining. but here a few facts that have been stated already and shoulw be pointed out:
Expansion packs: Not going to happen, so Any new missions, or Fractions we will more then likly get for free as has been satated repeatly.
C-store: Am pretty sure its beeen stated that the team that desing stuff for the C-store are not the same people that desing new content or anything like that. All ships that have been release in C-store are avaibly in game ( This does not include Reskins of some of the other ships, thats cosmatic just like uniforms)
C-store: Am pretty sure its beeen stated that the team that desing stuff for the C-store are not the same people that desing new content or anything like that. .
that was stated but it is not true. All the stuff that is in the cstore is made by the STO Dev team.
Here are some tweets showing devs working on things for the c-store....
Geko testing the multi-vector assault mode on the new Prometheus. You select which section to pilot each time. http://yfrog.com/h73xlebj
CapLogan working on the beta section of MVA. Looks like he caused an error in the editor, oops! Lol http://yfrog.com/h03rfwbj
that is what makes it feel there is a double charge to play. Because the dev spends half their time on developing the game and the other half on items that cost extra.
Comments
Years would be accurate (2-3). Because you basically re-pay the retail fee when the game essentially becomes a new game. No one has a problem with that because there's a line drawn in the sand that says: "play the same old game, or pay X dollars and experience much more."
WoW expansions are fundamental changes to the game, usually, and they offer *years* of content. Not all at release, though there's a lot, but as updates between the major expansions (monthly sub yields something; see the point here?). It's quite different than a chain quest called an episode, which provides a couple hours of fun versus fundamental changes to the core of the game, new tiers of content, and generally a large increment to the game play.
I'm not vouching for WoW, here. You brought it up, so I'm only saying those are apples and these are oranges. STO costs more to play than WoW and is years and years behind in content (understandable, as it's an infant in terms of the industry -- however, why does it cost more?).
WoW has a digital store with 6 items. 5 are pets, and one is a mount. That's my idea of a non-essential fluff. A friggin ship (the player avatar itself, hello) that can cloak on a faction that does not have cloaking is a far cry different.
I don't play WoW for a reason and I play this game for a reason. I'm a trekkie. Of course I don't have to buy stuff in the C-Store, I can just happily ignore and it and play my game, but we're trekkies. We love star trek canon, that's why we play a... star trek themed game. Not to mention, what's been added since Season 3 and the Reman quest chain? C-Store stuff. It's new content. It's something to look at, something to do. Something to tinker with. And my $15 doesn't buy it. Another $15 might, though, right?
Goodies in the C-Store feed that love for Trek, and I'm not sure if it's cruelty or sheer greed that have driven Cryptic's pricing policy, but it's lopsided. And to throw in the most recent "FOR A LIMITED TIME!" scheme is, well, you decide. I have, and I think it's stupid.
Fortunately for me, I'm not a TOS guy. At all. But if that was a TNG set, I'd be very disappointed in Cryptic. Hell, it's not and I still am simply because of the implication:
You've already bought the box game for $60, you pay your $15 a month... want this really sweet set of Trek Lore because you LOVE trek (hence why you're playing this and not EVE or some other space MMO). Pay $15 more!!!"
Not, "here's a special quest chain that is time-travel based and will happen to reward you with these TOS items we threw together on the side...."
Instead, "Money. Give."
How can you seriously say things that should probably be in the game to begin with, you'd rather pay extra for? Does your elitism "gotta" have it factor outweigh all sense of rationale? It's not that I can't afford the C-Store stuff, I could buy it all right now and a lifetime sub, but that's not the point. No one should have to, you pay them already.
You're getting screwed. And you love them for it?
Correct me if I am wrong, but WoW has three expansion packs in seven years, right? At $39 each that is a about $117 on top of the sub price. If you count up every game item in the STO c-store there is about $350 worth of stuff.
NOTHING in the C-Store is required to play the game, to reach max level, or to play all the content. Other MMO's require you to buy an expansion back to reach max level and access content. I guess I would rather have a C-Store than not have a full game.
WoW has a C-Store as well for pets and other minor stuff. Put that in your total as well.
As well as a card game exclusives that your have to spend real world money on a CCG to get.
I have stated this on many of the C-store threads and always get negative responses.
To me, this makes more sense, i would rather wait 6/12/18 mos and get a full expansion for 30 U.S. dollars, then pay for each and every little thing that's added to the game.
How do you figure? Someone purchasing a LTS just before or at launch is no longer paying for the game nor will they pay a monthly sub again, ever. How do you anticipate Cryptic making any money off those people? Via an expansion they may or may not buy? Perhaps by having a C-Store with fluff items they are more than likely going to buy? Or should Cryptic continue to evolve the game and add to it for free out of the kindness of their hearts because this is a Star Trek game?
You had to pay for the FEs in the C-Store? Curious... I did not see them in there.
lol
I was thinking that. I mean, the TOS pack doesn't even make sense in game.
thats funny lol
I'm sorry Chat but I'm wondering how you define a bargain.
Our C-store has 83 items totalling roughly 30,000 points or $375 dollars
Their store has 17 items totalling $199.83.
So where is the bargain?
Are you referring to individual items? The average item in their store which are boosters (What we call bundle packs) costs $9.99, and we have individual items that are far more expensive than that.
Klingon Empire - Guramba Siege Destroyer - 2,000 pts = $25.00
Federation Dreadnought Cruiser - 2,000 pts = $25.00
Then there's the following items that cost 1200 pts which is just over $12.75 each
And in both games the items in the ingame store are optional. No one has to buy anything to play either game.
So I'm still not seeing the bargain.
Heh, how little you know. You see, if you want the full warcraft story, you have to buy the full series of books, because since cataclysm, they dont bother to explain anything in game anymore. Someone asked on the WoW forums a while ago what happened to a faction leader NPC and a blizzard rep posted basically saying if he wanted to know, he had to buy the book. And lets not forget the vanity pets at $20 each, and their flying star pony mount for $25 and another flying mount coming soon for $25.. and they sell action figures and plush toys, T-shirts etc.
Typically nobody buys everything in the C-store.. I just got a few things i wanted w/ the 500 points i got for buying the game. So my TNG uniforms and borg officer came w/ the game as far as im concerned.
Nobody said anything about paying for FE, but since were gonna use that as a comparison, lets do so.
Ok, FE, last generally 4-6 weeks, of 1hour of play time per week. That's 6 hours, lets say ten hours for those that take their time.
Now lets use a expansion for the 100 ton gorilla.
Usually around 40 Dollars, has content, that even if you get a guild to power level you to max level, is around 24-30 hours of play, skipping 90% of the additional content. This content includes generally, 3-4 new zones, 3-4 new end game instances, that require many many days if not weeks to do. The content usually keeps even the most die hard fan of that game happy for months
Quest chain content alone is upwards of 100 hours of game play, all for the 40 dollar or so out lay.
Don't get me wrong, i love this game, its Star Trek, but, you have to admit, that more and more people are getting upset over the way the C-store is becoming the focus of what passes for new content. You can say all you want that people aren't required to buy it to play, and you would be correct. But what fun is playing a game that even after a year barely has 150 missions total, and then to see every month new stuff, but you have to pay.
Business is business. You trade huge upfront profit for longterm incentives. It's a huge gamble on both parties behalf -- maybe the game will live 10 years and that customer will play every day for those 10 years. On the other hand, look at Hellgate: London lifers. The game lasted 8 months and folded. Boy, they got owned.
At some point along a the timeline, the customer will profit from Cryptic. They have to, otherwise there's no incentive to buy lifetime. That timeline has not yet been reached, and probably won't for another year or so. Every dollar they make off you from the C-Store extends their profitability margin substantially.
That's all fine and dandy, but at what point do customers start going... "hey, wait a minute..." and making a fuss? Well, hell, they already are. I'm very happy for you that you have not yet reached that point. I was going to buy a LTS, but I witnessed what happened to Hellgate London lifers, and I had pause. At this point, it's not remotely a logical decision for me to bother with a lifetime sub, especially since I know I'll just spend more in the C-Store on top of the 300 something bucks I'll drop immediately. It's overpriced, no way around it.
It's a not a kindness of the heart thing, it's moral principle. Here's what I see, and I don't know jack-TRIBBLE (I readily admit this).
1) People are very mixed about the C-Store. If you aren't indifferent to it, you probably don't care for it.
2) People want fluffy stuff and mechanical stuff (yes, some of it is very mechanical) that appears in the C-Store.
3) There's a general lack of content across the board.
Man, I must just suck at business, but my instinct in such a situation would be: Make content available to players that awards things similar to what appears in the C-Store. On a regular basis.
For example, the retro-weapons from the devidian missions. Genius.
Reman themed things from the Reman episodes. Great idea.
Why stop there? Why put forth just enough effort to say you did something, then fall back on publishing C-Store only content for a couple weeks/months until the next season is available?
That's just a bad model. Dstahl needs to can the seasonal updates and just sectionally introduce content as it becomes ready. Instead of releasing expansions every year or two, he's trying to do it like every quarter. They said they're not into making expansions, but that's exactly what they're doing; and not getting expansion fees at the time of release.
Every week they do not release content everyone can enjoy they risk sinking their subscription numbers because people get bored of the same ol' and get distracted elsewhere, and they will eventually show it with their wallet. I know this is valid, because they wouldn't otherwise be pumping C-Store stuff at the rate they are, for just the reason you said shard: A lot of their players happen to be LTS (people already deeply invested), and they can turn a few more bones on them.
Of all of us subbers, you've probably paid the most at this point. I admire you defending your investment (I would too, and I'd love to defend STO because it's a good game, overall), but you have to see at least some truth in that?
This isn't target towards completely disarming your argument, but from what I've seen on the forums, more and more people are calming down about the matter. This is the first thread I've seen in a long, long time about the C-Store.
I disagree entirely. Reading the Engineering reports, articles and interviews and listening to Dev comments in interviews from various Podcasts, it would seem to me that their focus is on increasing free content to the game and adding more and more things to do and making the game better.
This part of your post does not make much sense at all. You acknowledge you do not need anything from the C-Store, so what is the problem if more gets added to it?
How much of your $15 a month do you believe goes directly toward devloping new content and not paying for other things, such as servers, advertising etc.? Would you be surprised if it is a whole lot less than you think?
Yes it is. They are in the business to make money. You totally ignored the question; how do you expect Cryptic to make money off of a Lifetime Subscriber who is not and will never again pay a subscription fee?
You totally didn't read anything I said.
They already did.
Yes I did. Apparently, you have not though.
If you paid for a LTS at launch, you are no longer paying a monthly fee, so as of right now you are playing for free. Cryptic is are no longer making any money off you, nor will they ever collect another cent from you.
How do you expect them to make money off these people now? A year from now? 5 years from now?
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the [URL=" http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2"]Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines[/URL] GMMeeko
If a regular subber paid $50 for the game at launch, he'd have to pay for around 14 months of play time in order to meet the amount you paid immediately. In 14 months, a lot could happen. Game could fold and close down, player could cancel, the list goes on.
They traded long term investment from you for upfront investment. In order to recoup the millions of dollars during development (read: 0 profit), they gave up the potential profit (read: great risk) off you 2 years from then to have it all in their bank RIGHT NOW.
This is like gaming business 101. It's pretty easy. Your questioning about profit from LTS years from now doesn't even apply.
if you think about it an 8 hour XP Boost of 20% only gives you an advantage of 1 hour 30 minutes.
and that is only if you use those 8 hours to POWER LEVEL.
if you stand arround ESD for only half an hour to manage your inventory you allready lost a big part of your bonus XP.
also i just leveld up a FED Char to VA1
i played all the Featured Episodes, used my Free 8 hour XP Bonus and STILL ran out of content before i hit max level and hat to do other stuff before Gamma Orionis.
If a FED can't level up 100% with Episode and Patrol missions only, by now, then Klingons still have looooong way to get there.
It only works out if people actually queue up for PvP... which is very hit or miss.
Maybe its a failure of the LTS model, and not the player bases fault?
If in my real world business, i ever sold a LTS for the services i provide, i would know,
1) i better have a truly awesome advertisement plan to get new people continually, and
2) i could not ever offer such a price plan again.
3) That my existing customers would expect anything i added to the service to be included in their price plan.
But honestly, that's not what the jist is about, it is disheartening to continually see new items added to the C-store, that far out weigh any new free in game content. The few things we can acquire through in game means, requires months of grinding emblems, unless your the rare individual who can play for 10 hours a day.
But, anyway, imo, its just another example of a semi good idea going to the extreme and no longer being a good idea, at least not in a P2P model, it comes off as wanting the best of both models, and does create dissent amongst the player base.
1) LTSers don't suddenly become "free" after 16 or 20 months, we paid for that time, we just paid a heckuva lot less for it
2) It has only been 14 months since game start (thats 14 x 15= $210)
On a different note,
I'd be really supportive of the Crafting of all C-Store items
But, I wouldn't mind "yearly expansions" that are limited time bundles of the previous years c-store additions at $50 a pop
Yes, exactly right.
What he ^ said, and don't forget that many, many people that were around at launch bought not only the CE 60 plus dollars, but also bought the LE from many other distributors. Some people literally paid twice the figure you use of 250$ before even buying the LTS.
Expansion packs: Not going to happen, so Any new missions, or Fractions we will more then likly get for free as has been satated repeatly.
C-store: Am pretty sure its beeen stated that the team that desing stuff for the C-store are not the same people that desing new content or anything like that. All ships that have been release in C-store are avaibly in game ( This does not include Reskins of some of the other ships, thats cosmatic just like uniforms)
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the [URL=" http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2"]Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines[/URL] GMMeeko
that was stated but it is not true. All the stuff that is in the cstore is made by the STO Dev team.
Here are some tweets showing devs working on things for the c-store....
CapN Logan strikes again! Oberth FTW. http://yfrog.com/gzo5vxwj
Geko testing the multi-vector assault mode on the new Prometheus. You select which section to pilot each time. http://yfrog.com/h73xlebj
CapLogan working on the beta section of MVA. Looks like he caused an error in the editor, oops! Lol http://yfrog.com/h03rfwbj
that is what makes it feel there is a double charge to play. Because the dev spends half their time on developing the game and the other half on items that cost extra.