New update PvP discussion

demansfairy wrote: »

Psy cannot go with magic ring end game...class is too chi dependent and there are too many stuns now to reliably use psy will and think it's a free 10 sec window. A psy will burn 3.5 to 5 sparks every min just using our stun skill and psy will, means you often run out of chi quickly, and with things like drake bash (?), mighty swing (?)+ wood skill, roar of the pride, any sin stun skill +condemned thorn, archer stun skill + blazing arrow, DB, changing to magic ring when we phy immune could become very fatal very fast because unlike wiz, we dont have a skill that gives +120-150% more p Def to compensate the mamassive loss of p Def from switching rings.

also use white voodoo w/ magic ring is pointless without the dps, and as for Sos , see above.

waaaaaaaaaaaaa you realise that there is nothing in the world would survive all that ,do you ?

GodricGryff - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's more viable for the class with no pdef buff to cover its behind to wear a magic ring than the one that does? OK. Psy Will is by no means impregnable.

Mag ring: +160 matk
White Voodoo: -121 atk lvl

OK.

There is actually those new rings with mag att and p.def boost as 2nd stats ,need some iteam from packs to get it , our server dosent have any,but on other servers there is plenty

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i dont get your point,

its 99 atk lvl less and so what, it completely denies the second best component of some endgame one damage output

psy will? it's still better than facking nothing lol

and all the skills that demansfairy listed which effect can possibly have on a target that instead of being immune to physical damage its actually not?

lol the wizard won't just eat the CC, the wiz will also eat the damage from those skills!

@silvaf if you can enlighten me please xD but i feel that non-wiz players are just butthurt that they dont want "pre-NH wizards" again, cause they were OP

but thats what wizards were designed for, have the best damage (DPH) and a decent sustain

now more or less we have same or worse sustain than other classes, plus DPH is off the meta


gg

I felt similar when I was QQing about bms, and everyone else being far too focused on what they become, but look at me now, I have backed off of it significantly, albeit I do admit I still have a few flare up's here and there, but largely I have backed off of it, granted the NH update helped bms to reclaim their role better than the morai skills did. - Ergo I really do get where you are coming from... with that feeling that you feel like your role has taken a serious hit. -

I fully realize you aren't me, and just because I was able to back off... it doesn't mean you can or should for that matter, still it might just be better for your sanity if you took a step back and reanaylzed things.

- When so much energy is wasted on an argument, whether your right or wrong, you have little to no energy to actually see the forest for the trees so to speak. (If you know what I mean.) -

--

Really i can't tell you what you may or may not notice yourself when you stop wasting energy arguing. (again whether your right or wrong is besides the point, and it shouldn't even be considered in it.) (edit: I don't know if it will be something you or anyone else hadn't noticed before, or if it will be something that someone has been trying to tell you, just not very well.) - You'll have to find that out for yourself. - Though yes I am aware that this could easily go the other direction, but hey if it does... and you find more reason to 'loathe' your wizard, you can use that as 'ammo' when you return to fight for wizards again. (/edit)

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i dont get your point,

its 99 atk lvl less and so what, it completely denies the second best component of some endgame one damage output

psy will? it's still better than facking nothing lol

and all the skills that demansfairy listed which effect can possibly have on a target that instead of being immune to physical damage its actually not?

lol the wizard won't just eat the CC, the wiz will also eat the damage from those skills!

@silvaf if you can enlighten me please xD but i feel that non-wiz players are just butthurt that they dont want "pre-NH wizards" again, cause they were OP

but thats what wizards were designed for, have the best damage (DPH) and a decent sustain

now more or less we have same or worse sustain than other classes, plus DPH is off the meta


gg

Only you think a psy is generally less vulnerable than wiz.

White Voodoo is 121 Attack Levels than Black at lvl 10. A Psy in White might be harder to kill, but it's lesser of a threat.

Psy Will is a great skill, no arguments there but CC can be applied through it, you can get CC'd before it even goes up, it has a CD, it can be purged etc etc.

I'm not butthurt about my class or wiz, but neither do I pretend wiz are either easy to kill or trivial to ignore.

Connera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

http://mypers.pw/1.8/ link or it's not true.

For the sake of argument, 2 identical characters:
Wizard
Psychic

Has a bit less attack but nowhere near what he is claiming.

Might have overlooked something but I don't think so.
I, on purpose, did not include engravings and titles because I can't be bothered to put in some random engravings on everything for both. If anyone would like just put the exact same engravings and title stats on both characters and save them.

And don't give me the MUH SHARDINGS excuse, I get that a psy would go for deity, but the argument was the SAME gear. I take shardings into that as well, and it's about base attack anyway.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

and thats where you wrong if you add engraves that will actually add attributes, psychic will always have more base damage due to his weapon damage being superior

and if the future for pwi reserves us more attributes this difference will become a lot more significant

also as i said its not just a matter of pure gears, wizard cant camp moon embrace due his lack of psy will etch, and its also a matter of skillset and better\worse damage amps

and still psychic has a better base damage having DPS respect wizard having a more DPH oriented skillset which is absolutely wrong and if you want to continue the debate feel free but i repeated the same thing 100 times and i really have no more will to express the same concept once again

if you think DPH is still viable, and if you think wizard still outDPS and outDPH anyone go ahead, go into mass pvp, focus the wizards and get deleted by sins psys and stormies

I'm just creating the thing you said in your post.
The engraves, when added to both toons, don't create a 10-15k base damage gap as you claimed.
Unless you go full ****** and add all magic engraves to psychic and all strength/vit/dex to the wizard. Even then it won't have that rediculous gap.

About the moon embrace:
Wizard has stone barrier for defense, but yeah, the ice one for muh chi.

You said same gears, I create toons with same gears.

Apart from that, I never said anything about dps, dph, what is viable and what is not.
All I can say is deal with the cards you're dealt with, the problem in our version is the insane power creep. If we had the exact same identical version and management as the CN one, we wouldn't even be discussing this because there would be a whole lot less of cashed out characters.
But no, what we want in this version is, i want to be able to bypass and oneshot whatever character on whatever class i'm playing.
Some classes should be easy to take out with other classes, some classes should be harder to take out with other classes.
Think arcane vs arcane, that SHOULD last long because arcane damage against arcane SHOULD do a whole lot less.
Same goes for HA against HA.
LA is in the middle of both.

Keyword is SHOULD because powercreep.

It's what I did when I started playing this game, I first started out as a wizard, but from the beginning I saw that it was going to be a pain to keep that class up due to its limitations and thus switched to a more viable class.

Anyway, i'm not here to start a discussion about what is viable and what is not, just created the toons for the arguments sake, what you do with it is up to you.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But no, what we want in this version is, i want to be able to bypass and oneshot whatever character on whatever class i'm playing.
Some classes should be easy to take out with other classes, some classes should be harder to take out with other classes.

You hit the nail on the head. Wasnt Hot debating if he should reroll sin or demon veno? why demon veno specifically? oh right because they can 1shot people with ironwood & AA.

Wont deny wizard got nerfed a bit and i wouldnt mind an update for them (for all classes tbh) but your whining is getting tiring now no offence. don't act like wizards are the weakest thing ever. I'm still more worried about wizards in pvp than psychics.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

also i forgot to reply at the another same comment "eh but you can get CCs through psy will", well the little damage you get through psy will can trigger your purify and the little damage you get won't require the psy to wear the phys def ring
and the same skills what effect can possibly have (again) on a class that will eat both the CC and the damage?

an endgame psy has like 35-40k phys res also, an endgame wiz on stone barrier has like 50k phys res, whats the difference 1-2% more damage reduction?

Do...do you think they auto attack after they get a stun off when psy use psy will 0_o? OK here how it works, psy uses psy will, IF POSSIBLE (and for most classes it is) opponent uses a stun skill, that player then waits for the stun to near it's end before using another stun skill. This ensures they have a low chance of procing purify spell. They don't start spaming skills to try to get purify spell to proc -_-.

If by any chance they decide to stun you near the end of psy will, either by they realize you're switching rings or just by accident, before you can go back to phy ring, if you're not full buffed you probably going to die. I've had barbs, bms, and sins easily hit over 20k on me and I'm full +12 with NW neck, ring, r recast ring, etc, I'm honestly scared how much harder they would hit without my phy ring on.

also when you say 1-2% more damage reduction between 40 and 50k pdef, you're right...if you mean the percentage displayed in character window as in 40 is at 90% and 50k is at 92%. But numbers work like this:
90% means you take 10% incoming damage.
92% means you take 8% incoming damage
That means the player at 92% takes 20% LESS damage than the player at 90%
That was an example though, the real phy % for 35 to 40 should be 89.28-90.49%, and for 50 it should be 92.25% which means the player at 50k takes 27.71-18.51% (depending if 35 or 40k) less damage, hell of a big difference.

There is 2 ways I actually hit psy during psy will as archer. First is if they are actually getting ganked to hell, I`ll just throw my metal skills into the mix. The 2nd option is if they are buffed and they psy willed my will surge, in which case I usually auto psy in order to purge their buffs as doing that trough their silence can be pretty painful.

The most broken thing in psys is Soul of stunning, no question, even if that retalition skill purges me once every NW. It lasts way too long on OP psys and least with my knowledge of psy animations and ping I have major issues of actually stopping to hit when they randomly throw it up there. At times you stop when you see it but arrow still flies stunning you. On top of that they have their seal, which makes them basically unkillable to dps class like archer outside of will surge. Simply psy willing every will surge, psy is never going to die. But thats more of an archer issue than anything else.

As for the psy vs wizzie comparison? Psy hits harder, has more annoying mechanics to deal with but wizzie is not only way more mobile, its way more tankier. I dont exactly go farming +12 armor jade psys but I can force their CDs pretty effectively. On other hand, I have managed to kill such wizzie once in 1vs1 kind of situation that I can remember of. Funny enough, they happened to record that NW and posted it, where I then noticed they werent charmed for the fight and the seeker who happaned to hit them once for 4k got the kill. So I suppose I am yet to kill such wizzie.

All in all, while psys might kill me more often, its partially because I struggle identifying certain animations but I also kill them way more often than I kill wizzies. I am not saying wizzie has the highest dmg output in game or the easiest time of landing kills but they are extremely painful to take down. They still have damage output to kill people. This thread is more of Hot than wizzie problem.

50k - 75% = 12500 - 90% = 1250

So far we've seen on average that psy have about 4k more base dmg endgame

54k - 75% = 13500 - 90% = 1350

"wow wizard takes deals 2 100 damage less than psychic wooooooooooow wizard is tankier weaker than psychic

how can few hundreds damage difference can be this substantial when both are around the 25k hp mark"

By your numbers of course

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

you know i was discussing this thread with some other pretty experienced players on teamspeak

and i've been asked why do i even bother posting on these forums...

it's really no use, it seems that endgame pvp happens only on my server cause the lack of clues of some guys here is really impressive


well i am outta here b:bye

b:surrender morai has 1337er pvp than pvp servers. Clearly he is right and we are all wrong guys. This proves it.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

you know i was discussing this thread with some other pretty experienced players on teamspeak

and i've been asked why do i even bother posting on these forums...

it's really no use, it seems that endgame pvp happens only on my server cause the lack of clues of some guys here is really impressive

lets suppose someone with 50k base damage attacks someone with 90% resistance
he will deal

50k - 75% = 12500 - 90% = 1250

if he attacks someone with 92% -> 50k - 75% = 12500 - 92% = 1000

wow wizard takes 200 damage less than psychic wooooooooooow wizard is tankier than psychic

how can few hundreds damage difference can be this substantial when both are around the 25k hp mark


well i am outta here b:bye

You're... joking... right?

If both have 25k HP (charm tick after 12.5k), the psychic will die after 30 hits. The wizard will die after 38 hits.

If you're honestly going to tell me you think there's no significant difference there... then you're right, why do you bother coming to these forums?

Strife_son - Sanctuary wrote: »

He comes here to ****post and rustle jimmies. Oh and tell us that morai pvp is better (it's not). Guess if you lie enough you eventually believe it.

Vid posted of wizard dealing hits over 20k on an endgame barb, but it wasn't dealt using gush and the barb wasn't using defense charms and he wasn't fully buffed and he didn't have tower debuffs, so point is invalid. 5 digit hits with basic skills is a must in order for wizards to be truly balanced.

I liked the original Hot better, he was quiet.

Are you for real? That video is your basis for saying that?
Rofl. Barb in that video is trash , uses Solid Shield against fire combo when he's got Soul of Fire?
What a joke , closed the video after he died at 2nd min because that video and barb are just a joke lol.

More nitpicking. Wizards still hit targets plenty hard, even endgame ones. It's not like people run around with the optimal counter skills/charms/apoth/whatever ready all of the time.

Ok let's say barb is inexperienced then, the reason why Soul of Fire is better is because fire combo can kill him like it did , so if he used Soul of Fire he woudnt die and if wizz switched to another set of attacks that woudnt be enough to kill the barb as we can see from earlier in the video when he tried with SS used or not.
So its simple by using SoF he'd survive , SS he dies.