New update PvP discussion

XXHotXx - Morai

Dark_one - Harshlands wrote: »

@XXHotXx -

Idk, maybe you have done something wrong with your wizard, or you don`t have primal skills or what, but when you`r talking about wizards being weak, i have a feeling we play 2 different games. Best PVPers on HL are wizards, they hit hard and being almost unkillable with primal passives and self buff. If you don`t believe me, ill post a video where 1 wizard fights vs 3 others and wizard is victor.
But i suggest you to use your time you spend on forums QQing about wizards being weak, learning this class out and trying out new combos. Ofc, combos you used 7 years ago wont be that effective right now, aswell back then sins were apsing like crazy monkeys but everything has changed, aswell your class skills have emprowed, just study them out, son!b:bye

rofl

you probably cant understand english, didn't read the post or probably i am just expressing myself in a wrong way

besides that i am deftly not weak, i've experienced wizard pvp gameplay in any possible aspect and i am a key factor of any mass pvp that happens,

but that's because of my gearset.

in a scenario where everyone is endgame, and it's the scenario that we gonna reach sooner or later, wizard struggles to deliver damage.

Why? You go look all the other discussions on wizard forums or go look for how the resistance passives alone negate debuffs efficiency at very endgame, and undine strike debuff was the key of wizard damage. (while other classes had other type of damage amps, we have undine strike debuff that now is nerfed to the ground)

Also not my fault if Harshlands has non endgame-pvp (and i am telling you this that i was playing Harshlands server)
cause it potentially takes 123 to kill a wizard in mass pvp, and any other class has a better DPS than wizard's, even better DPH if its a full buffed scenario where debuffs are even more inconsistent,
i am pretty sure those wizards won't last more than 30 seconds in open pk on my server,
and that's not cause EU>NA, but simply because on my server the open pk is crowded by the 90% with very endgame players (while as i've already seen on NA servers there are a lot of g16s in open pk)

And you talk about trying out new combos... please enlighten me, which new combos were possibly introduced with the latest patches\new skills? Frozen flame? Which if i could i'll just unlearn it to take back demon emberstorm?

Really you have no idea what you talking about, you spit judgements from a point of a complete lack of knowledge

I dunno i will just leave a random one of my videos for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D8u-OAwmA4

Show me one of yours if you have, so i can study the new combos son b:chuckle

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

archer is not and never had been a DPH class

This has nothing to do with what I said. Neither did I even imply the contrary

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

This has nothing to do with what I said. Neither did I even imply the contrary

I wouldnt waste my time with him. He cant 1shot people now hence wizard broken weak, QQ. Wizards were ultimately just revamped, burst dmg output went down a bit while mobility(puri proc), utility(Morai skills?) went up and they also got extremely tanky in the process. One does wonder what kind of QQ we would witness if he was archer, a class which actually gets shat on by every update.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

rofl



Why? You go look all the other discussions on wizard forums or go look for how the resistance passives alone negate debuffs efficiency at very endgame, and undine strike debuff was the key of wizard damage. (while other classes had other type of damage amps, we have undine strike debuff that now is nerfed to the ground)

this effects purge too.
at least your proc is useful

XXHotXx - Morai

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I wouldnt waste my time with him. He cant 1shot people now hence wizard broken weak, QQ. Wizards were ultimately just revamped, burst dmg output went down a bit while mobility(puri proc), utility(Morai skills?) went up and they also got extremely tanky in the process. One does wonder what kind of QQ we would witness if he was archer, a class which actually gets shat on by every update.

revamped? wait fixing the bug that was preventing the chi gain to proc after the chi cost for the ulti was spent is called a revamp?

burst damage went down a bit you mean less than halved?

mobility (puri proc), paralyze anyone?

morai skills? who is even using autoattacks anymore?

anyone is tanky at endgame, deity assassins are even tankier than wizards if you actually had a crumb of mass pvp experience.... wanna consider just arcane classes? well fox form? psy will\white voodoo? plume shield? reaper form?

archers were shat on, but wizards were shat on aswell

the fact that wizards can **** on archers doesnt mean that wizards are freaking OP cause they are the worst AA class in game atm by DPS and DPH damage, pvp support\utility, even just pvp presence

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

revamped? wait fixing the bug that was preventing the chi gain to proc after the chi cost for the ulti was spent is called a revamp?

burst damage went down a bit you mean less than halved?

mobility (puri proc), paralyze anyone?

morai skills? who is even using autoattacks anymore?

anyone is tanky at endgame, deity assassins are even tankier than wizards if you actually had a crumb of mass pvp experience.... wanna consider just arcane classes? well fox form? psy will\white voodoo? plume shield? reaper form?

archers were shat on, but wizards were shat on aswell

the fact that wizards can **** on archers doesnt mean that wizards are freaking OP cause they are the worst AA class in game atm by DPS and DPH damage, pvp support\utility, even just pvp presence

There is such a excess of paras in this game outside of barbs. And DBs too, fairly rare on archo least. Arguing like puri isnt major mobility tool because para is just idiotic.

I never talked bout your the skil, which activates on auto-attack. I referenced utility as in your reversion skills. I think those are from Morai, I could be wrong. Blinding blase was Morai too I think. Either way, utility was increased drastically.

As for the rest of this, lot of nonsense. There is no way deity sin is de facto tankier than wizard at endgame. Tidal doesnt make sin tankier really, simply harder to pin down & land debuffs on, which results in tankier appereance. In group setting endgame wizzie outgears majority of their opposition just like any endgame toon. This is extremely relevant because of puri proc, it gets way more hits to proc than on even gear, drastically buffing its value.

I feel your issue is similar to what I have seen on archo is. We have endgame wizzie, whenever its the owner of the toon playing the toon its extremely difficult to deal with. Whenever its his friend with experience of this game(not just some random nobody who never played this game), the toon gets shat on.

XXHotXx - Morai

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

There is such a excess of paras in this game outside of barbs. And DBs too, fairly rare on archo least. Arguing like puri isnt major mobility tool because para is just idiotic.

I never talked bout your the skil, which activates on auto-attack. I referenced utility as in your reversion skills. I think those are from Morai, I could be wrong. Blinding blase was Morai too I think. Either way, utility was increased drastically.

As for the rest of this, lot of nonsense. There is no way deity sin is de facto tankier than wizard at endgame. Tidal doesnt make sin tankier really, simply harder to pin down & land debuffs on, which results in tankier appereance. In group setting endgame wizzie outgears majority of their opposition just like any endgame toon. This is extremely relevant because of puri proc, it gets way more hits to proc than on even gear, drastically buffing its value.

I feel your issue is similar to what I have seen on archo is. We have endgame wizzie, whenever its the owner of the toon playing the toon its extremely difficult to deal with. Whenever its his friend with experience of this game(not just some random nobody who never played this game), the toon gets shat on.

purify was a nice mobility tool until pwi gave paralyze to the classes that have the best gap closers, also the spammability of paralyze doesnt really make purify a reliable escape.

reversion works only on the world map, doesnt work in primal world, in tournament morai in tw or nws
blinding blaze is useless, what is really good from all of them is ice prison (thats all what wizard is reduced to imo)

anything full buffed at endgame is really really hard to be killed even in mass pvp without a purge. deity sin is in fact tankier than a josd wizard cause you cannot purge him, you cannot paralyze him, you cannot debuff amp or CC him, lots of nonsense? try to purge a stone barrier, then try to purge a fox form or reaper form :-)

@last point oh well that's not my issue since i've rerolled deity sin, and at not even endgame i am already ****ting on everyone 123

Eoria - Harshlands

Dark_one - Harshlands wrote: »

@XXHotXx -

Idk, maybe you have done something wrong with your wizard, or you don`t have primal skills or what, but when you`r talking about wizards being weak, i have a feeling we play 2 different games. Best PVPers on HL are wizards, they hit hard and being almost unkillable with primal passives and self buff. If you don`t believe me, ill post a video where 1 wizard fights vs 3 others and wizard is victor.

The wizards still left on HL are pretty much terrible. sry, not sry.

As for that vid, I'll assume you mean Ruby's in which case I'll point out that 2 out of those 3 are one-shots and the 3rd is a relatively average-geared archer with r9rr +12 wep and prob like +10 armor that he almost dies to 1v1 several times during the course of the vid. So umm...yeah.

As for Hot, sorry, wizards needed a nerf. Now if they'd just re-nerf sins, make archers more than just a damn unreliable purge bot unless they outgear everyone, and balance paralyze a bit, we'd be in business.

Dark_one - Harshlands

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i am a key factor of any mass pvp that happens,

So, then why are you complaining about wizards if you are a KEY Factor? What did you want, to have high enough attack to 1 shot everyone? It`s to use your brains and find out best combos for highest dmg.

i saw you in pvp action awhile ago and watching those videos i have to say, you have much to learn, my young padawan!

XXHotXx - Morai

Dark_one - Harshlands wrote: »

So, then why are you complaining about wizards if you are a KEY Factor? What did you want, to have high enough attack to 1 shot everyone? It`s to use your brains and find out best combos for highest dmg.

i saw you in pvp action awhile ago and watching those videos i have to say, you have much to learn, my young padawan!

you brought that out of context, read the line after that

a key factor because of my gears

you saw me in pvp action? really? thats kinda weird since i am pvping on my sin only
well you can teach me anyways, go ahead show me smt, new combos and **** please ^^

Colum - Raging Tide

Now I expected to find something else than another wizard rant... seems I was wrong. b:shutup

XXHotXx - Morai

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Now I expected to find something else than another wizard rant... seems I was wrong. b:shutup

same thing i said few posts ago in tihs same thread, leave wizards alone lol i don't even want to debate that anymore...

i just hope that the new charm cooldown debuff passive will bypass tidal, else, well PWI:assassins

also i have high hopes for the magic penetration too, might return to pvp actively on wiz since it will boost spike DPH

mulier

Wizard of Light Nation deals 26559 dmg
You were killed by Light Nation of Wizard

b:bye

XXHotXx - Morai

mulier wrote: »

Wizard of Light Nation deals 26559 dmg
You were killed by Light Nation of Wizard

b:bye

are you Wary? XD

Connera - Heavens Tear

Say person A deals 1 dmg every 2 seconds.
Say person B deals 2 damage every 4 seconds.
Say person C has 10 HP.

Time for person A to kill person C: 10/1*2 = 20 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 10/2*4 = 20 seconds

Say person C has 20 hp.

Time for person A to kill person C: 20/1*2 = 40 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 20/2*4 = 40 seconds

Seems to apply equally.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Connera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Say person A deals 1 dmg every 2 seconds.
Say person B deals 2 damage every 4 seconds.
Say person C has 10 HP.

Time for person A to kill person C: 10/1*2 = 20 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 10/2*4 = 20 seconds

Say person C has 20 hp.

Time for person A to kill person C: 20/1*2 = 40 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 20/2*4 = 40 seconds

Seems to apply equally.

So what if you pit person A against person B and they same have the same amount of HP, but person A can interrupt person B by just autoattacking or using skills?

XXHotXx - Morai

Connera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Say person A deals 1 dmg every 2 seconds.
Say person B deals 2 damage every 4 seconds.
Say person C has 10 HP.

Time for person A to kill person C: 10/1*2 = 20 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 10/2*4 = 20 seconds

Say person C has 20 hp.

Time for person A to kill person C: 20/1*2 = 40 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 20/2*4 = 40 seconds

Seems to apply equally.

well if A is DPS class and B is DPH class

is more likely this

Person A deals 1 dmg every 2 seconds
Person B deals 1 dmg every 4 seconds

and i don't want to go into the argument again on how DPS classes can actually even outDPH the only DPH class left in game

opkossy

Hot you're being ridiculous with the bias. DPH is still a thing DPH classes will do better. Besides, there's a much easier way to support why a DPH class needs actual DPH. Just add a charm into the mix and double the damage values from the example given rather than try to change it based on a biased viewpoint.

Damage would then go as follows:

2 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage. Target has 8 HP.
DPH deals 0 damage. Target has 10 HP.

4 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 4 damage total. Target has 6 HP.
DPH deals 4 damage. Target has 6 HP.

6 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 6 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 4 damage total. Target has 6 HP.

8 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 8 HP and 8 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.

10 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 10 damage total. Target has 6 HP and 6 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 10 HP and 8 seconds left on charm.

12 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 4 HP and 4 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 6 HP and 6 seconds left on charm.

14 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 14 damage total. Target has 2 HP and 2 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 10 HP and 4 seconds left on charm.

16 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target is killed just as charm goes off cooldown.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target has 2 HP and 2 seconds left on charm.

18 second mark:
DPS target dead. DPS doing whatever.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.







And that's what happens when you try to DPS on a DPH class. You fail to beat the charm because you're too slow even if you had the same DPS over time (Hint: If you have the same DPS over time the DPS person is doing it wrong). DPH is supposed to either have a single big hit that takes preparation and cannot be done frequently, but blasts past defense in that one moment, or a spike capability that's more forgiving and can potentially be done more often but has similar cost. DPS, meanwhile, is supposed to have consistent and fast enough damage that, given time for attrition, a DPH based person would not keep up with the DPS one in terms of damage dealt. Essentially, DPH deals 10 mil at the start and then pokes around not doing much while DPS deals 2mil at the start but catches up to and surpasses DPH while the DPH is rebuilding the costs of their nuke.

At the moment, the game's meta is mostly about DPSing with your DPH but wizards are too slow in terms of channeling to really do this as effectively as newer classes can (at least, not without making themselves far more vulnerable which is a fair trade off when a player is more used to it) and old skills were balanced for players being much weaker so their DPH isn't as extreme (relatively) as it once was to equal geared opponents. So they're in a spot where they have to work much harder than an equally geared/skilled opponent to land a kill. They can and do still land kills and can be incredibly deadly, mind you. Just that it's much tougher now than it once was.

Eirghan - Sanctuary

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

same thing i said few posts ago in tihs same thread, leave wizards alone lol

Guys!
LEAVE WIZARDS ALONE! b:cry

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Eirghan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Guys!
LEAVE WIZARDS ALONE! b:cry

Yeah archers need more sympathy. Gib us attention pls. b:surrender

XXHotXx - Morai

OPKossy wrote: »

Hot you're being ridiculous with the bias. DPH is still a thing DPH classes will do better. Besides, there's a much easier way to support why a DPH class needs actual DPH. Just add a charm into the mix and double the damage values from the example given rather than try to change it based on a biased viewpoint.

Damage would then go as follows:

2 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage. Target has 8 HP.
DPH deals 0 damage. Target has 10 HP.

4 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 4 damage total. Target has 6 HP.
DPH deals 4 damage. Target has 6 HP.

6 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 6 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 4 damage total. Target has 6 HP.

8 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 8 HP and 8 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.

10 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 10 damage total. Target has 6 HP and 6 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 10 HP and 8 seconds left on charm.

12 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 4 HP and 4 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 6 HP and 6 seconds left on charm.

14 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 14 damage total. Target has 2 HP and 2 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 10 HP and 4 seconds left on charm.

16 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target is killed just as charm goes off cooldown.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target has 2 HP and 2 seconds left on charm.

18 second mark:
DPS target dead. DPS doing whatever.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.







And that's what happens when you try to DPS on a DPH class. You fail to beat the charm because you're too slow even if you had the same DPS over time (Hint: If you have the same DPS over time the DPS person is doing it wrong). DPH is supposed to either have a single big hit that takes preparation and cannot be done frequently, but blasts past defense in that one moment, or a spike capability that's more forgiving and can potentially be done more often but has similar cost. DPS, meanwhile, is supposed to have consistent and fast enough damage that, given time for attrition, a DPH based person would not keep up with the DPS one in terms of damage dealt. Essentially, DPH deals 10 mil at the start and then pokes around not doing much while DPS deals 2mil at the start but catches up to and surpasses DPH while the DPH is rebuilding the costs of their nuke.

At the moment, the game's meta is mostly about DPSing with your DPH but wizards are too slow in terms of channeling to really do this as effectively as newer classes can (at least, not without making themselves far more vulnerable which is a fair trade off when a player is more used to it) and old skills were balanced for players being much weaker so their DPH isn't as extreme (relatively) as it once was to equal geared opponents. So they're in a spot where they have to work much harder than an equally geared/skilled opponent to land a kill. They can and do still land kills and can be incredibly deadly, mind you. Just that it's much tougher now than it once was.

but its not a bias Kossy, there is only 1 class that has main damage skills' channeling\cast times superior to the 3-4 seconds mark

and the hits that the DPH class delivers has more or less the same damage value of the hits the DPS classes can deliver

your logic is correct if DPH class would actually deal double the damage of a DPS class

but f.e. is d.pyro dealing double the damage of a cyclone or of an aqua impact?

the answer in no XD instead it's more likely that cyclone or aqua impact deal more damage than the d pyro itself due their own classes base damage being superior to wizard's

let's suppose wizard vs psychic

a 3spark undine spark d pyro crit has the same damage of a black voodoo ep aqua impact crit

the fact is that the DPH class dont have the proper amps neither proper base damage to be able to DPH xD just that

all the rest DPH vs DPS logic you mentioned is still correct to reconfirm how DPH is totally off the meta atm

GodricGryff - Sanctuary

Not that I think you're generally hyperbolic, but could you detail how with equal gear you expect a basic psy/cleric skill to out damage a 3 sparked wiz second-tier skill?

Also, consider that while there is a damage bonus to Black Voodoo and Violet Dance, these skills have penalties associated with them.

opkossy

In a pyro vs cyclone comparison, you won't get higher numbers because cyclone is literally a metal version of gush... and nobody uses gush for DPHing for good reason. DPS combos, sure, but not DPH. Which is exactly how cyclone and aqua impact are used as well. You have to pull out your DPH skills (the big guns that are supposed to be the major damage) and compare it to what other classes have as their DPH skills to be a fair comparison.

I'll give an example with a quick overview of Wield Thunder vs Divine Pyrogram.

They have about the same channel/cast time (culti affect channel time for wiz and they can debuff based on culti for both classes). However, Divine Pyro not only has a much shorter cooldown (3 seconds vs 6 seconds) but it's also meant to deal more damage on average with higher refines and assuming everything else is equal between the two classes (300% weapon damage + 4.9k damage add vs 200% weapon damage + 6.3k damage add); especially when you consider that the damage variance on a glaive compared to a magic sword. Thus, wizards get the harder hitting skill they can use more often so that they can punish their opponents should the opportunity arise....

Or at least, that was the original intent. Unfortunately, gear has gone to a point where that can no longer apply and the difference in damage is typically fairly miniscule compared to the kind of HP we have once all of our defenses are done cutting through it. Especially with the advent of Violet dance. So now sure it hits (slightly) harder on average when a cleric is outside VD... but when the cleric is in VD it lags behind. Yes, it has the shorter cooldown but that doesn't change it from being a DPH skill on a DPH class doing less DPH than the closest equivalent on a class that wasn't based on performing the role of magical nuker.











Example aside, I agree that wizard should be looked at so they can stand out as DPH again or have their skills reworked so that they can settle into a new role. Same with how archers desperately need help. Heck, the old classes and skills in general should all be looked over. However, I don't think wizards are quite as badly off as you tend to make it seem. Maybe it's not your intent and we just read too much into your posts. But that's my opinion from my own experiences and my desire to stay as unbiased as possible.

XXHotXx - Morai

GodricGryff - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not that I think you're generally hyperbolic, but could you detail how with equal gear you expect a basic psy/cleric skill to out damage a 3 sparked wiz second-tier skill?

Also, consider that while there is a damage bonus to Black Voodoo and Violet Dance, these skills have penalties associated with them.

a full endgame wizard on random S cards is around 50k base value,
a psychic with same gears is around 65k

lets's say undine spark would reduce psychic's fire resistance from 50k value (92%) to 36k value (90%) which is in fact a 20% damage amp

3spark will increase wizard's base damage to around 70k value

70k+ its 20% x2 (crit) = 168k hit (wizard)


psy base damage is 65k + 25% more black + ep 20% = 97,5 x2 (crit) = 195k (psychic)


as i said at endgame an undine spark "damage amp" gives a lesser DPH output to a wizard than what a psychic has on mere black voodoo "damage amp"

and psychic can DPS its skills undefinitely, while wizard cannot DPS the d pyro, and cannot maintain the undine spark debuff up undefinitely

and wizard needs to 3spark to kinda match psychic's base damage

while if a psychic 3sparks will have twice the base damage of a wizard


@kossy: but thats exactly what i am saying
at not endgame, wizard has the best DPH

but at endgame the basic skills of the other arcane classes have a better DPH that wizard's skills

and other classes can use those skills to DPS, while wizard cannot make the same use cause of cast times and cooldowns

at very endgame a violet dance cyclone spam, will always have a better DPS and DPH output that anything a wizard could comparably pull
hell a cleric base damage in violet dance is close to 70k base damage, that base damage value is a dream even for me with an S set of cards

well it's not that i am trying to make wizards look bad, it's just that currently wizard really struggles in doing what he was designed to do, best single target burst and best aoe ranged damage at the cost of cast\cooldown\chi cost\lowest base damage - no DPS

when clerics can deal more damage than you, and venos can potentially oneshot you while being tankier, when earth vector deals more damage than mountain seize, you realize there is something really broken in the class you playing

GodricGryff - Sanctuary

If I use the wiz build in your sig, and apply demon/sage spark, the magic attack is 95k (91k if not cleric buffed). From where to you arrive at this 70k used in your calculations?

XXHotXx - Morai

GodricGryff - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I use the wiz build in your sig, and apply demon/sage spark, the magic attack is 95k (91k if not cleric buffed). From where to you arrive at this 70k used in your calculations?

hello i have an S set and still have lower damage than psychic

there you go a psy with my S set http://mypers.pw/1.7/#136248

GodricGryff - Sanctuary

Noone was disputing that psy have higher base magic attack; I was disputing the 25k disparity between the sparked magic attack you claimed and the one shown via ur pers link.

No doubt the psy will always have greater magic attack, but that psy has better magic attack focused gear than you. If one swaps your gear link to a psy, there is a 4k matk difference.

opkossy

GodricGryff - Sanctuary wrote: »

Noone was disputing that psy have higher base magic attack; I was disputing the 25k disparity between the sparked magic attack you claimed and the one shown via ur pers link.

No doubt the psy will always have greater magic attack, but that psy has better magic attack focused gear than you. If one swaps your gear link to a psy, there is a 4k matk difference.

This is entirely correct. Which is why I keep saying you're pushing your bias a bit too heavily, Hot. The damage gap itself isn't nearly as vast as you've been consistently claiming it is. It's the mechanics of the skills themselves remaining as generally slow channeling skills that are supposed to deal large damage, yet don't actually deal damage that's significantly higher than the DPS skills anymore that cause issues. Were the skills more retooled for DPS (remember how when psys came out the general consensus was Psy for DPS and Wiz for DPH due to the nature of their skills) or beefed up for more DPH, there wouldn't really be an issue with the role of wizards. As is, however, they have nuke speed but their base and skill damage is simply average. Which leads to the problem I showed occurs when a DPH class tries to DPS.

XXHotXx - Morai

OPKossy wrote: »

This is entirely correct. Which is why I keep saying you're pushing your bias a bit too heavily, Hot. The damage gap itself isn't nearly as vast as you've been consistently claiming it is. It's the mechanics of the skills themselves remaining as generally slow channeling skills that are supposed to deal large damage, yet don't actually deal damage that's significantly higher than the DPS skills anymore that cause issues. Were the skills more retooled for DPS (remember how when psys came out the general consensus was Psy for DPS and Wiz for DPH due to the nature of their skills) or beefed up for more DPH, there wouldn't really be an issue with the role of wizards. As is, however, they have nuke speed but their base and skill damage is simply average. Which leads to the problem I showed occurs when a DPH class tries to DPS.

its not entirely like that, psychic can viably go into mag ring cause he can pop psy will, he also has white and soul of silence

when wizard goes into mag ring he loses tons of p.res that scale with stone barrier, we dont have escapes like psy will white voodoo and sos, we lose p. res -> we become squishy

its a combination of things ofc, base damage + skillsets that makes wizard damage output worse than other arcane classes, it's not bias, i am the first one that says if they introduce elemental penetration wizard will return to be OP cause that will make our debuffs scale a lot better...

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

its not entirely like that, psychic can viably go into mag ring cause he can pop psy will, he also has white and soul of silence

when wizard goes into mag ring he loses tons of p.res that scale with stone barrier, we dont have escapes like psy will white voodoo and sos, we lose p. res -> we become squishy

its a combination of things ofc, base damage + skillsets that makes wizard damage output worse than other arcane classes, it's not bias, i am the first one that says if they introduce elemental penetration wizard will return to be OP cause that will make our debuffs scale a lot better...

Right or wrong is this really worth your sanity?

If the answer is no, it might be best to try to avoid replying anymore to things, no matter how much you feel the person you'd be responding too is... wrong.

EDIT: Who knows maybe taking a step back from constantly defending your 'stance'... you'll realize/notice something else that is far better to use/eliminates some of your annoyance with wizards.... maybe.... worth a shot yes? b:avoid - (I am not saying it will happen overnight, but maybe later on, you'll notice something you previously missed during all the back and forth that you/others have been doing.)