New update PvP discussion

XXHotXx - Morai

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

well generally there's 2 types of damage, u have immediate damage (think wizards) or sustained damage (think archers). Immediate damage generally means to nuke someone, this is usually limited by higher cooldown or a longer set-up, aka downtime. Sustained damage is lower, but doesnt suffer from this downtime basically the longer the battle takes the more the sustained damage dealer will benefit over the immediate damage dealer, this is what people refer to as DPS.

When increasing the hp of everyone the immediate damage dealers will suffer from this, since they have to deal with more downtime, since they are unable to nuke people as they get too tanky. The sustained damage dealers however will benefit from this cuz of what I previously stated about the length of a fight.

Now Im not saying archers will suddenly be good again, the hp increase is very minor and they are still very weak when it comes to DPS, and they get incredibly shafted by psychic buffs, which I doubt is going to change any time soon, but DPS is their bread and butter, and increasing everyones hp benefits those that focus on DPS.

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simplified PvE example -> APS sin cant KS wizard on weak 2shot mobs, where a wizard cant KS an APS sin on a boss that takes 20+ hits to take down

what this guy said basically...

new 25% hp is another nerf to DPH classes, and whats the only DPH class left in game? wizard!
all other classes can more or less DPS...
will be way harder to go for the bypass with a DPH gameplay style

and while the new charm cooldown increase passive will even more promote DPS... ->more hits -> more charm cooldown time -> DPS 2 win

so sad wizards got another unnecessary nerf, we are already an abandoned class, just check wizard subforum, this next patch is the gravestone upon wizard players cemetery i will prolly not even bother do the new dailies on it, i ll just focus on my assassin

$picylovah - Sanctuary

I would not suggest that, assassins prolly have the biggest downtime of all classes, as the name would suggest, they are assassins, they go in and out, basically when their tidal is down its time to leave. This passive nerfs assassins even more than wizards.

....that and wizards are probably the strongest class in the game right now b:chuckle Tho Im not looking to start an argument about which class is the weakest xD Im sure everyone has their sub-forums for that!

Mosz - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

what this guy said basically...

new 25% hp is another nerf to DPH classes, and whats the only DPH class left in game? wizard!
all other classes can more or less DPS...
will be way harder to go for the bypass with a DPH gameplay style

and while the new charm cooldown increase passive will even more promote DPS... ->more hits -> more charm cooldown time -> DPS 2 win

so sad wizards got another unnecessary nerf, we are already an abandoned class, just check wizard subforum, this next patch is the gravestone upon wizard players cemetery i will prolly not even bother do the new dailies on it, i ll just focus on my assassin

righttt, cause more hp = more chances to purify proc, wizards getting so shafted compared to archers, har har.

Strife_son - Sanctuary

Oh no, wizards have a little more hp to blow through. How can they effectively play the game if they can't one shot crowds of people cus of this new buff. Truly sad days.

Wizbros and archers, how can the rest of us ever understand the struggles you all must endure day in and day out?

XXHotXx - Morai

you guys need to experience endgame and probably also experience wizard class, else you are just talking ****

if you dont know the difference between DPH and DPS its your ignorance

if you dont know that a wizard hardly can bypass an HA at endgame its your ignorance

if you dont know that the more hits you land the more the new passives will debuff your charm cooldown it's your ignorance and wiz has longest chann + cast

wanna talk **** mr bm?

a 3spark ice prison undine spark divine pyro crit with 55k base damage is 14k damage on an endgame bm

give them 25% more hp = 40k hp = no chance i am going to bypass that

p.s.: new patch doesnt shaft sins cause they have the highest DPS in game atm, their sequence of fast hits will bring your charm instantly to max cooldown debuff value, that combined with the huge DPS is a really OP combo

$picylovah - Sanctuary

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

p.s.: new patch doesnt shaft sins cause they have the highest DPS in game atm, their sequence of fast hits will bring your charm instantly to max cooldown debuff value, that combined with the huge DPS is a really OP combo

Welcome to the world of immediate damage, ur wrong in thinking sins deal sustained damage, sins and wizards are much of the same, u blow ur load, n then u need to wait for ur next one. U complain about a wizard being unable to bypass a charm when the hp increases in the same post u write a sin can instantly tick a charm.

I would prefer u didnt respond so hostile, but when u do please provide actual knowledge, random numbers and full panic mode dont really show anything. Ive been informed that u have some of the strongest gear on Morai, but you make one vital mistake, you can buy your gear, anyone can, but you cant buy ur knowledge, even if you 1shot people since u have such strong gear, you can still know nothing about the game.


My point when I say wizards are probably the strongest class in the game right now is in no way related to their damage output. Their damage output is fine, not too strong, not too weak. And that is ok, because this is the roll they fulfill as a burst mage. Not only do they have high damage output but they also have an extremely big threat-zone, 30m radius, one of the biggest in the game, out of the immediate damage dealers it is THE biggest in the game. Being able to cast from such a safe distance used to be punished with high vulnerability, wizards were squishy, this where the term glass cannon comes in. However due to cards and primal passives these glass cannons have defensive stats on par with melee classes, sure their hp is lower, but their overall defensive stats are very much the same. This brings us a class with no current weakness, the downtime I previously mentioned has been cut by a lot due to the new primal ability to gain chi at an insane rate. All of this together leads to a burst mage, with probably one of the highest burst values in the game, that has the biggest threat-zone in the game, and the defensive stats of a melee class, now please tell me again why a wizard is weak.


And on a final note, Im just trying to be helpful here
''a 3spark ice prison undine spark divine pyro crit with 55k base damage is 14k damage on an endgame bm''

Dont use spark on a BM, BMs have magic marrow, your spark will not do anything relevant on a BM that has marrow up, it will at most increase ur damage output by a few % since BMs have low base magic resistance which gets increased by an extremely high percentage, and spark will only touch the base resistance. Spark is extremely effective on unbuffed targets, or at the very least targets that dont have a buff that increases their magic resistance, magic marrow increases the BMs magic resistance. Use the previously stated combo on any char that doesnt have his magic resistance buffed and u will get the results ur hoping for you will however have wasted all ur chi and are extremely vulnerable to get countered, but thats besides the point. Im assuming ur talking about 1v1s here anyway, and 1v1s are just silly, might aswell play Pokémon Red

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Can we now get back to the topic of the patch please? If u want me to teach u how the game works u can just PM me ingame on Sanctuary, the general discussion thread is not the right place for this

Strife_son - Sanctuary

Prease understand, I'm totally sympathizing with wizbros and archers. You guys definitely have it rough.

Not being able to easily kill another class who is also endgame is totally unfair. I mean this game isn't really fun unless it is easy, I definitely understand. You don't invest time and money into this game and still have to deal with challenges after all.

Sins are totally OP too. So many hits and OP buffs! Why does CN favor sins so much???

Time to reroll I guess. Standing in the back line dishing one shotting the massesis just a thing of the past. b:surrender

XXHotXx - Morai

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Welcome to the world of immediate damage, ur wrong in thinking sins deal sustained damage, sins and wizards are much of the same, u blow ur load, n then u need to wait for ur next one. U complain about a wizard being unable to bypass a charm when the hp increases in the same post u write a sin can instantly tick a charm.

Sins deal sustained damage cause they cant be CCed debuffed or purged, endgame sin instantly ticks your charm lets say with elimination that is 4 hits, 4 hits = you have already almost max charm CD debuff

I would prefer u didnt respond so hostile, but when u do please provide actual knowledge, random numbers and full panic mode dont really show anything.


My point when I say wizards are probably the strongest class in the game right now is in no way related to their damage output. Their damage output is fine, not too strong, not too weak. And that is ok, because this is the roll they fulfill as a burst mage. Not only do they have high damage output but they also have an extremely big threat-zone, 30m radius, one of the biggest in the game, out of the immediate damage dealers it is THE biggest in the game. Being able to cast from such a safe distance used to be punished with high vulnerability, wizards were squishy, this where the term glass cannon comes in. However due to cards and primal passives these glass cannons have defensive stats on par with melee classes, sure their hp is lower, but their overall defensive stats are very much the same. This brings us a class with no current weakness, the downtime I previously mentioned has been cut by a lot due to the new primal ability to gain chi at an insane rate. All of this together leads to a burst mage, with probably one of the highest burst values in the game, that has the biggest threat-zone in the game, and the defensive stats of a melee class, now please tell me again why a wizard is weak.

Do you actually realize any other caster has same or better range than wizard?
Do you actually realize any other caster has better channelling and cast times than wizard?
Do you actually realize any other caster has better base damage due to better weapon damage than wizard?
Do you actually realize that at very endgame stone barrier will add max 1% more damage reduction respect all other casters that do not have a physical defense buff which is lemme think... mhhh mystics have one, venos have unpurgeable one, psys have psy will, storms have unpurgeable reaper + passives + aura, mhhh clerics plume shield mhhh wow wait any other caster class has a pdef buff like wizard has, but some of them have an unpurgeable one while wizard's is always purgeable
and fyi if you are wearing a chi shield as a wizard in mass pvp you are going to get oneshotted by any sin lurking in stealth

if you think fire combo is still a thing after lvl 10 primal passives, you should really check in order:
stormbringer debuff ("spark combo" with its own debuff icon for water\metal)
demon ironwood + an
demon spark rapid growth nv as sm nv as
cleric violet dance DPS
psychic black voodoo DPS

all the arcane classes can "burst" w\o needing to use essential sutra or a ztp, and oh well sutra and ztp burst is 5-6 seconds, other classes DPS is consistent

And on a final note, Im just trying to be helpful here
''a 3spark ice prison undine spark divine pyro crit with 55k base damage is 14k damage on an endgame bm''

Dont use spark on a BM, BMs have magic marrow, your spark will not do anything relevant on a BM that has marrow up, it will at most increase ur damage output by a few % since BMs have low base magic resistance which gets increased by an extremely high percentage, and spark will only touch the base resistance. Spark is extremely effective on unbuffed targets, or at the very least targets that dont have a buff that increases their magic resistance, magic marrow increases the BMs magic resistance. Use the previously stated combo on any char that doesnt have his magic resistance buffed and u will get the results ur hoping for you will however have wasted all ur chi and are extremely vulnerable to get countered, but thats besides the point.

So let me understand what you trying to say here, if your target has a mdef self buff and you are a wizard, change target. ?
Also how do you plan to deal better damage as a wizard respect the combo i've listed on a bm?

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Can we now get back to the topic of the patch please? If u want me to teach u how the game works u can just PM me ingame on Sanctuary, the general discussion thread is not the right place for this

i don't really think that since you play an older server respect the one i play, your claims should be right and mine should not.

$picylovah - Sanctuary

Sins deal sustained damage cause they cant be CCed debuffed or purged, endgame sin instantly ticks your charm lets say with elimination that is 4 hits, 4 hits = you have already almost max charm CD debuff

immune to CC/purge = temporary, aka has downtime
if u can instantly tick a charm, why cant u instantly bring it back to half n instantly kill? downtime
You will need to be triple sparked -> has downtime

You are literally telling me this:
My sin is a marathon runner, cuz I can run really fast for 15 seconds

You know who doesnt have downtime? An archer shooting arrows, pew, pew, pew, pew, the only downtime there is would be when they walk = sustained damage

^ lets say this is a marathon runner

You can see more max hp as an extention of the running track who benefits from an extended track? the 15 second sprinter? or a marathon runner? thats right, its the marathon runner, aka the archer, aka not the sin.

---

sigh

---

Do you actually realize any other caster has same or better range than wizard?

Veno 27m
Psychic 28.5m
Stormbringer 27m
Cleric 28m
Mystic 27m
Wizard 30m
Seeker 20m

Please enlighten me, I must have missed something, and please dont tell me about temporary range increases, because that is completely irrelevant


Do you actually realize any other caster has better channelling and cast times than wizard?
So? Ur a burst mage, I just told u the whole point of immediate damage is downtime (long set-up or long cooldown) u even agreed with me on this point earlier. Fast cast times belong with a Control Mage aka not a wizard (think Psychic)


Do you actually realize any other caster has better base damage due to better weapon damage than wizard?
*cough* lets focus on the actual skills

Wizard 2 spark skills:
plus 500% of weapon damage
plus 500% of weapon damage
dealing base magic damage plus 200% of weapon
damage plus 6200 as both Physical and Fire damage.

Other caster 2 spark skills:
Cleric: plus 400% of weapon damage
Veno: plus 300% of weapon damage
Psychic: plus 200% of weapon damage
Mystic: doesnt even have a skill like this

Do you actually realize that at very endgame stone barrier will add max 1% more damage reduction respect all other casters that do not have a physical defense buff which is lemme think... mhhh mystics have one, venos have unpurgeable one, psys have psy will, storms have unpurgeable reaper + passives + aura, mhhh clerics plume shield mhhh wow wait any other caster class has a pdef buff like wizard has, but some of them have an unpurgeable one while wizard's is always purgeable.
Hm, Primal Stone Barrier, let me see real quick

ΦStone Barrier

Mana　265
Channel 　0.2　seconds
Cast　0.3　seconds
Cooldown　3.0　seconds

3 second cooldown? O the terror if u get purged

''stone barrier will add max 1% more damage reduction''

So instead of 90% its 91%?
So normally ud take 10% of the damage, but cuz of stone barrier its 9%

Kid math:

0.09 - 0.10

---

x 100% = - 10% , so ull take 10% less physical damage...thats incredible!
0.10

and fyi if you are wearing a chi shield as a wizard in mass pvp you are going to get oneshotted by any sin lurking in stealth
Welcome downtime Use stealth pots, fight from max range, dont be that frontline wizard that doesnt realise he has 30 meters range instead of 10

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Source: ecatomb.gdevtalk.net

Actual numbers > Random made up stuff


I probably wont respond to any further posts, there's a limit to how much effort im willing to put in a stranger thats being ignorant, just so u know b:kiss

Toliman - Raging Tide

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you actually realize any other caster has same or better range than wizard?

Veno 27m
Psychic 28.5m
Stormbringer 27m
Cleric 28m
Mystic 27m
Wizard 30m
Seeker 20m

Please enlighten me, I must have missed something, and please dont tell me about temporary range increases, because that is completely irrelevant

Please, take out our increased range.

PvE:
Most of bosses fight in close range.

PvP:
? How long it take to run 1.5-10 meters more ?
Also ... Seeker is not Caster ... Are you ... ?

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you actually realize any other caster has better base damage due to better weapon damage than wizard?
*cough* lets focus on the actual skills

Wizard 2 spark skills:
plus 500% of weapon damage
plus 500% of weapon damage
dealing base magic damage plus 200% of weapon
damage plus 6200 as both Physical and Fire damage.

Other caster 2 spark skills:
Cleric: plus 400% of weapon damage
Veno: plus 300% of weapon damage
Psychic: plus 200% of weapon damage
Mystic: doesnt even have a skill like this

...

PvE:
2 spark skills can be used against mobs only.

PvP:
Can someone describe, why Wizards don't want to use 2 spark skills ?
Do you see recent videos about great numbers for 2 spark skills of Wizards ?
How often Wizard die during PvP ?

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

ΦStone Barrier

Mana　265
Channel 　0.2　seconds
Cast　0.3　seconds
Cooldown　3.0　seconds

3 second cooldown? O the terror if u get purged

''stone barrier will add max 1% more damage reduction''

So instead of 90% its 91%?
So normally ud take 10% of the damage, but cuz of stone barrier its 9%

Kid math:

0.09 - 0.10

---

x 100% = - 10% , so ull take 10% less physical damage...thats incredible!
0.10

...

Real calculations:

damage reduction of physical damage for characters has non-liner dependence.

For level 100 character (dependent from level of enemies).
If you increase defense to 247 from 3 points, then you will get 6% damage reduction.

If you increase defense to 3907 from 3 points, then you will get 49% damage reduction.

Increasing physical defense of character with initial defense of 3 by 100% you will get ... 6 points of defense, what mean 0% damage reduction against enemies level 100.

---

P.S.
Any character, which has 90% damage reduction not need buff to increase physical defense - even debuffed he can fight, so your example show how cash shoppers and hardcore players can increase their defense without skills, using gear only.

XXHotXx - Morai

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sins deal sustained damage cause they cant be CCed debuffed or purged, endgame sin instantly ticks your charm lets say with elimination that is 4 hits, 4 hits = you have already almost max charm CD debuff

immune to CC/purge = temporary, aka has downtime
if u can instantly tick a charm, why cant u instantly bring it back to half n instantly kill? downtime
You will need to be triple sparked -> has downtime

wtf are you talking about i really cant follow you,
Sin is the only class which DPS cant be CCed or ignored w\o forcing genie\apo, and a good sin can cycle tidal, antistun, apo, genie and never get CCed

if an elimination just ticks your charm (when it doesnt oneshot) you can still react and get away,

if the elimination ticks your charm and makes it not tick anymore for more like what normal cooldown+15 seconds? the sin will just continue to DPS you to death w\o your charm to tick a second time


You are literally telling me this:
My sin is a marathon runner, cuz I can run really fast for 15 seconds

You know who doesnt have downtime? An archer shooting arrows, pew, pew, pew, pew, the only downtime there is would be when they walk = sustained damage

^ lets say this is a marathon runner

You can see more max hp as an extention of the running track who benefits from an extended track? the 15 second sprinter? or a marathon runner? thats right, its the marathon runner, aka the archer, aka not the sin.

---

sigh

---

Do you have any clue about assassin primal skills? Elimination is 4 hits in 3,2 secs 15 sec cd or smt, Life hunter is 2 hits in 1.5 secs or smt with no cooldown you just cycle elimination life hunter and you have the charm cd debuff @ max value w\o considering those 2 skills are the best DPS skills available in game at the moment, archer can potentially do the same thing with autos, but archer DPS is total garbage compared to assassin's one

Do you actually realize any other caster has same or better range than wizard?

Veno 27m
Psychic 28.5m
Stormbringer 27m
Cleric 28m
Mystic 27m
Wizard 30m
Seeker 20m

Please enlighten me, I must have missed something, and please dont tell me about temporary range increases, because that is completely irrelevant

The range of the arcane classes are more or less the same except for stormies that have a skill that increase range to 42meters, for instance spark works @ a 20 mtrs range so wizard burst has to be from a 20 meters range and w.e. was your point here it is invalid


Do you actually realize any other caster has better channelling and cast times than wizard?
So? Ur a burst mage, I just told u the whole point of immediate damage is downtime (long set-up or long cooldown) u even agreed with me on this point earlier. Fast cast times belong with a Control Mage aka not a wizard (think Psychic)

We were a burst mage, lvl 10 passives nerfed down debuffs like hell, this is not neverwinter man, all other classes have the channelling a wizard have for the cost of 2 sparks or apo slot, we are supposed to be a DPH class but our DPH is nerfed way so hard

Do you actually realize any other caster has better base damage due to better weapon damage than wizard?
*cough* lets focus on the actual skills

Wizard 2 spark skills:
plus 500% of weapon damage
plus 500% of weapon damage
dealing base magic damage plus 200% of weapon
damage plus 6200 as both Physical and Fire damage.

Other caster 2 spark skills:
Cleric: plus 400% of weapon damage
Veno: plus 300% of weapon damage
Psychic: plus 200% of weapon damage
Mystic: doesnt even have a skill like this

Again with this **** being pulled for the 100th time, you forgot the magic word:
base damage plus.... an endgame wizard has 55k base damage cause magic sword damage is inferior to any other arcane weapon, an endgame cleric in violet dance has nearly 75k base damage (over 60k not in violet dance)
then you can add all the weapon damage you want from the damage skills, but wiz skills will always deal less damage to any other caster class damage skill, simply because wizard base damage value is the lesser among all the arcane classes

lets compare tempest with bid AT ENDGAME

tempest: base + 400% +13500 -> 70000 + 12000 + 13500 = 95500

bid = base + 500% + 13955 -> 55000 + 12500 + 13955 = 79000

but the difference is even more substantial in base skills like:

gush: base + 100% + 3390 = 55000 + 2500 + 3390 = 61000

cyclone: base +100% + 5266 = 70000 + 3000 + 5266 = 78000

OP dps much?



Do you actually realize that at very endgame stone barrier will add max 1% more damage reduction respect all other casters that do not have a physical defense buff which is lemme think... mhhh mystics have one, venos have unpurgeable one, psys have psy will, storms have unpurgeable reaper + passives + aura, mhhh clerics plume shield mhhh wow wait any other caster class has a pdef buff like wizard has, but some of them have an unpurgeable one while wizard's is always purgeable.
Hm, Primal Stone Barrier, let me see real quick

ΦStone Barrier

Mana　265
Channel 　0.2　seconds
Cast　0.3　seconds
Cooldown　3.0　seconds

3 second cooldown? O the terror if u get purged

''stone barrier will add max 1% more damage reduction''

So instead of 90% its 91%?
So normally ud take 10% of the damage, but cuz of stone barrier its 9%

Kid math:

0.09 - 0.10

---

x 100% = - 10% , so ull take 10% less physical damage...thats incredible!
0.10

after a 90% damage reduction that 1% more means almost nothing you know?having 35k physical defense and having 45k its basically the same sh.it

and fyi if you are wearing a chi shield as a wizard in mass pvp you are going to get oneshotted by any sin lurking in stealth
Welcome downtime Use stealth pots, fight from max range, dont be that frontline wizard that doesnt realise he has 30 meters range instead of 10

Which part of the oneshot from stealth you didnt understand?
Also i am a frontline wizard, always have been.... being endgame if you don't frontline who the **** is supposed to do so?

---

Source: ecatomb.gdevtalk.net

Actual numbers > Random made up stuff


I probably wont respond to any further posts, there's a limit to how much effort im willing to put in a stranger thats being ignorant, just so u know b:kiss

yea ignorant right, you completely have no clues of how endgame pvp works.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Wizards are already one of the worst classes and this update screws them more. Right now the only wizards that can kill my +10 exclusive sharded mystic have deity stones. With 25% more hp no wizard is killing me ever.

Archers... I think came out alright. Archers win by surviving long enough for purge to go off, and the extra hp will help them more than the longer charm ticks will hurt.

Mystics came out the best in this expansion. In the land of no charm ticks the insta-heal is king. Plus they were already a dps class.

Clerics were stealth-nerfed. They have the heals to survive with fewer charm ticks but they won't be able to use ultraviolet dance mode as freely.

Classes with few/very limited heals (stormbringer, veno, etc.) are going to hate those longer charm ticks.

$picylovah - Sanctuary

Either way the game will just end up in 160 people staring at eachother, no one dying, and everyone sealed cuz of people being too tanky and psychic buffed, look forward to it b:victory

Euzebe - Sanctuary

Off-topic I know, but does a wizard really have 15k less base matk than other arcanes endgame? Isn't the difference on the R999 weapons ~300 at +12? A little more than what's on the R999 ring?

opkossy

Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »

Off-topic I know, but does a wizard really have 15k less base matk than other arcanes endgame? Isn't the difference on the R999 weapons ~300 at +12? A little more than what's on the R999 ring?

You're correct about that value being off.

In addition, wands are the weakest magic weapon and not magic swords, so that's another thing that's off as well.

Euzebe - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

You're correct about that value being off.

In addition, wands are the weakest magic weapon and not magic swords, so that's another thing that's off as well.

Well I checked the wand vs sword vs sphere on pwd and it looks like sphere > wand > sword but the difference is about 320 from weakest to strongest in terms of upper end on the mag atk. It should be noted tho that the sword has the highest value on the lower end of the mag atk range.

Edit: bored and curious enough

Requiem
(1431-1749) + 1050 = 2640

Apotheosis
(1351-1828) + 1200 = 2789.5

Reincarnation
(1397-1771) + 1200 = 2784

Sanctity
(1273-1907) + 1050 = 2640

Etherwalker
(1113-2067) + 1050 = 2640

from values on pwd. They seem pretty close to me. Do wizards get less from cards or something else?

CapnK - Sanctuary

Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do wizards get less from cards or something else?

Nope, and they get average amount from meridian (only mystic gets more)

Eoria - Harshlands

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clerics were stealth-nerfed. They have the heals to survive with fewer charm ticks but they won't be able to use ultraviolet dance mode as freely.

Ehhh...not really? vd was always gimped in the sense of not being able to switch weps in it in addition to the 15sec cd and having a much longer channel/cast time compared to that of venos/barbs and now sb/db. But any cleric that knows how to survive in vd should be fine. Honestly, clerics should be godmode 1v1 with this passive. ;x

This passive is also a sorta buff to psys and archers due to Diminished Vigor and Arrow Inferno. hf with 18-19sec charm cds.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

This passive is also a sorta buff to psys and archers due to Diminished Vigor and Arrow Inferno. hf with 18-19sec charm cds.

Not really, adding 3 seconds to 10s cooldown makes it 30% longer but with 15s as the base 3s more is only 20% longer. Additive bonuses tend to have diminishing relative returns, not like APS stacking.

$picylovah - Sanctuary

Euzebe - Sanctuary wrote: »

Off-topic I know, but does a wizard really have 15k less base matk than other arcanes endgame? Isn't the difference on the R999 weapons ~300 at +12? A little more than what's on the R999 ring?

http://mypers.pw/1.7/#115376
http://mypers.pw/1.7/#115377

pay no mind to the refines/cards n such, im too lazy to change it
this is basically full glass cannon build with rb1 candleflame

its a little over 4k more for psychics on the high end, and non-existant on the low end, assuming the website is accurate ofcourse, so I guess he was just comparing it to a character that a has magic attack buff, which is a strange comparison but o well

XXHotXx - Morai

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

http://mypers.pw/1.7/#115376
http://mypers.pw/1.7/#115377

pay no mind to the refines/cards n such, im too lazy to change it
this is basically full glass cannon build with rb1 candleflame

its a little over 4k more for psychics on the high end, and non-existant on the low end, assuming the website is accurate ofcourse, so I guess he was just comparing it to a character that a has magic attack buff, which is a strange comparison but o well

strange? go re-read my post,

i said its over 60k, 70k in violet dance and they can DPS
psys are around the 65ks aswell + 25% more from black voodoo its realistically a 75k and they can DPS (and don't start an argument around attack levels plz cause it has been proved already 1 atk lvl over enemy def levels it's in any case 1% more damage)
mystics are around the 65ks they have almost chi free rapid growth (+125% weapon damage) and demon spark rg nv as sd nv as combo is currently the best DPS combo in game
venos are around the 60ks and besides the demon ones can 0def to oneshot, they can still DPS
stormies will be around the 70ks with a free 135% water\metal debuff + water\metal DPS how **** is that? wizard to land that debuff needs to force genie



that 300+ weapon damage difference multiplied by the huge attribute values we have and then if we consider some other arcane DPS classes have passive damage amps like violet dance or black voodoo, you will see the huge difference in damage output between wizards and rest.

it should be the other way around,
wiz being the only class not able to DPS, therefore relegated to DPH, should have the best base damage and the best ampsto be able to have the best spike DPH,

but nope, the arcane DPS classes atm even outDPH wizards.


-snip-


and this is a cleric with damage cards far worse than mine (mine add 1400 weapon damage hers around 700) and channelling shards in weapon (i've 2 icebournes for 200 more weapon damage) so that cleric with 900 weapon damage less than me has a better base damage than me.

mol1

37%Crit? -gtfo, also obviously the cleric is with buffs

glaesum

mol1 wrote: »

37%Crit? -gtfo, also obviously the cleric is with buffs

And what?

But yes. he's just troll here. Compare buffed cleric with unbuffed wizzy, good point.

Euzebe - Sanctuary

Man, was a mistake to even reply to something he said, I apologise.

Anyhow, here's to hoping that longer charm ticks for everyone make for more competitive game-play. Interesting that in one swoop, they did that and increased overall hp.

$picylovah - Sanctuary

glaesum wrote: »

And what?

But yes. he's just troll here. Compare buffed cleric with unbuffed wizzy, good point.

pretty much...you could also just make the exact same model as before

http://mypers.pw/1.7/#115600

and compare it to

http://mypers.pw/1.7/#115376

and see that cleric low end is 1.5k less than wizard, while the high end is 3.5k more than wizard

but every scenario he mentions, mentions buffs, and he compares skills to a Gush to prove that wizard have low DPH, if he uses Gush as his big burst skill then I see why its not working out for him

He previously mentioned Divine Pyrogram, so that must be his go-to skill


so thats 4903 + 53096~56390 + (2799+220+156+614+614+200)*3 = 71808~75102

Lets compare it to Wield Thunder, I think that wud be the strongest single target skill a cleric has

so thats 6365 + 51459~59892 + (2957+220+156+614+614+200)*2 = 67346~75779


And this is where ''the difference is even more substantial'' cept not really. These may not even be accurate numbers as I did not include meridian/titles in the calculation of weapon damage, simply cuz I dont know if they are calculated as such I google n I get

''Weapon attack in general is how much your weapon contributes to your damage. This is basically the sum of all the physical \ magical attack attribute on player's gear and level.
weapon attack = attack from weapon + attack from shards in weapon + attack from rings and other equipment + character level''

But if they do get counted this would only favor Wizards as they have the better ratio...

But Im sure his next response will be whining about how Undine Strike deals less damage than a cleric using Tempest with full buffs and triple sparked, wizard damage is fine, quit pretending its not. I already told u their issues is in no way related to their damage output, wizards are way too durable considering their 30 meter range, they are no longer the glass cannons they should be, and their downtime has been reduced by way too much after helping them so much with their chi management, they are pretty close to just spamming their ulti's on cooldown. When a melee class gets in melee range of a wizard that should be the end of the wizard, a wizard has so many tools to prevent this from happening and if it does happen it should be punishable, since this is a huge mistake from the wizards end, but a wizard can just facetank any melee class as they've been given so much defense.

The new passive will mainly nerf wizards, venos and melee classes, as its a nerf to burst damage aswell as a huge buff to the importance of purge as well as focussing down single targets with multiple ppl, which is something melee classes are infinitely more vulnerable to.

I think pretty much any class wont notice much about this besides Archers and Mystics as I would consider them the main marathon runners of PWI and they will benefit from this.

Tools that are designed to counter DPS (Purify Proc / Psychic Buffs) will obviously be more effective aswell, which makes me sad b:chuckle

But overall Im very happy, cuz this will also increase the importance of healing!!!! woo /o/ Healing has always been a huge joke in this game compared to any other MMORPG, and instead clerics were just supposed to res/buff, maybe this will finally make it a little more important

---

Now Im really done with this b:surrender I dno why I even started the argument, enjoy playing ur sin and good luck killing buffed endgame geared people b:bye

eirghan

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i want a 11.0 m/s wizzy D;

baseaddress

mol1 wrote: »

37%Crit? -gtfo, also obviously the cleric is with buffs

Idiot? He compared self buffs b:bye

glaesum

baseaddress wrote: »

He compared self buffs b:bye

Wizard unbuffed. It's not self buffesb:bye
Or u want know his p.def with demon (and he's demon) earth shield ?

Maybe bms should qqme about overdo his p.def & spirit 1vs1 will all wiz survive & control skills.

***

As bonus. U often see unbuffed ppl on NW, TW, am I right ? (don't count ppl with lvl 80 free gear).
And how much types of buff pilles exist? Does it kind of problem now?

glaesum

$picylovah - Sanctuary wrote: »

The new passive will mainly nerf wizards, venos and melee classes, as its a nerf to burst damage aswell as a huge buff to the importance of purge as well as focussing down single targets with multiple ppl, which is something melee classes are infinitely more vulnerable to.

My opinion, if anyone need start holy war about updates it should be venos.
Because with almost each update our integral parts (i.e. pets) transform into m. more trash.

We don't ve gear / war avatars / a lot of other things for pets. And we don't qqme.

Eoria - Harshlands

Venos can get buffs whenever they nerf 0 pdef into the ground.

Toliman - Raging Tide

glaesum wrote: »

Wizard unbuffed. It's not self buffesb:bye
Or u want know his p.def with demon (and he's demon) earth shield ?

Maybe bms should qqme about overdo his p.def & spirit 1vs1 will all wiz survive & control skills.

***

As bonus. U often see unbuffed ppl on NW, TW, am I right ? (don't count ppl with lvl 80 free gear).
And how much types of buff pilles exist? Does it kind of problem now?

He said already, that he has 90% physical damage reduction and not need Stone barrier.

Do you know other useful buffs for Wizard ?