New update PvP discussion

Dark_one - Harshlands wrote: »

@XXHotXx -

Idk, maybe you have done something wrong with your wizard, or you don`t have primal skills or what, but when you`r talking about wizards being weak, i have a feeling we play 2 different games. Best PVPers on HL are wizards, they hit hard and being almost unkillable with primal passives and self buff. If you don`t believe me, ill post a video where 1 wizard fights vs 3 others and wizard is victor.
But i suggest you to use your time you spend on forums QQing about wizards being weak, learning this class out and trying out new combos. Ofc, combos you used 7 years ago wont be that effective right now, aswell back then sins were apsing like crazy monkeys but everything has changed, aswell your class skills have emprowed, just study them out, son!b:bye

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I wouldnt waste my time with him. He cant 1shot people now hence wizard broken weak, QQ. Wizards were ultimately just revamped, burst dmg output went down a bit while mobility(puri proc), utility(Morai skills?) went up and they also got extremely tanky in the process. One does wonder what kind of QQ we would witness if he was archer, a class which actually gets shat on by every update.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

There is such a excess of paras in this game outside of barbs. And DBs too, fairly rare on archo least. Arguing like puri isnt major mobility tool because para is just idiotic.

I never talked bout your the skil, which activates on auto-attack. I referenced utility as in your reversion skills. I think those are from Morai, I could be wrong. Blinding blase was Morai too I think. Either way, utility was increased drastically.

As for the rest of this, lot of nonsense. There is no way deity sin is de facto tankier than wizard at endgame. Tidal doesnt make sin tankier really, simply harder to pin down & land debuffs on, which results in tankier appereance. In group setting endgame wizzie outgears majority of their opposition just like any endgame toon. This is extremely relevant because of puri proc, it gets way more hits to proc than on even gear, drastically buffing its value.

I feel your issue is similar to what I have seen on archo is. We have endgame wizzie, whenever its the owner of the toon playing the toon its extremely difficult to deal with. Whenever its his friend with experience of this game(not just some random nobody who never played this game), the toon gets shat on.

Connera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Say person A deals 1 dmg every 2 seconds.
Say person B deals 2 damage every 4 seconds.
Say person C has 10 HP.

Time for person A to kill person C: 10/1*2 = 20 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 10/2*4 = 20 seconds

Say person C has 20 hp.

Time for person A to kill person C: 20/1*2 = 40 seconds
Time for person B to kill person C: 20/2*4 = 40 seconds

Seems to apply equally.

OPKossy wrote: »

Hot you're being ridiculous with the bias. DPH is still a thing DPH classes will do better. Besides, there's a much easier way to support why a DPH class needs actual DPH. Just add a charm into the mix and double the damage values from the example given rather than try to change it based on a biased viewpoint.

Damage would then go as follows:

2 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage. Target has 8 HP.
DPH deals 0 damage. Target has 10 HP.

4 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 4 damage total. Target has 6 HP.
DPH deals 4 damage. Target has 6 HP.

6 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 6 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 4 damage total. Target has 6 HP.

8 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 8 HP and 8 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.

10 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 10 damage total. Target has 6 HP and 6 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 8 damage total. Target has 10 HP and 8 seconds left on charm.

12 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 4 HP and 4 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 6 HP and 6 seconds left on charm.

14 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 14 damage total. Target has 2 HP and 2 seconds left on charm.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 12 damage total. Target has 10 HP and 4 seconds left on charm.

16 second mark:
DPS deals 2 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target is killed just as charm goes off cooldown.
DPH deals 4 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target has 2 HP and 2 seconds left on charm.

18 second mark:
DPS target dead. DPS doing whatever.
DPH deals 0 damage for a cumulative 16 damage total. Target has 10 HP due to a charm tick.







And that's what happens when you try to DPS on a DPH class. You fail to beat the charm because you're too slow even if you had the same DPS over time (Hint: If you have the same DPS over time the DPS person is doing it wrong). DPH is supposed to either have a single big hit that takes preparation and cannot be done frequently, but blasts past defense in that one moment, or a spike capability that's more forgiving and can potentially be done more often but has similar cost. DPS, meanwhile, is supposed to have consistent and fast enough damage that, given time for attrition, a DPH based person would not keep up with the DPS one in terms of damage dealt. Essentially, DPH deals 10 mil at the start and then pokes around not doing much while DPS deals 2mil at the start but catches up to and surpasses DPH while the DPH is rebuilding the costs of their nuke.

At the moment, the game's meta is mostly about DPSing with your DPH but wizards are too slow in terms of channeling to really do this as effectively as newer classes can (at least, not without making themselves far more vulnerable which is a fair trade off when a player is more used to it) and old skills were balanced for players being much weaker so their DPH isn't as extreme (relatively) as it once was to equal geared opponents. So they're in a spot where they have to work much harder than an equally geared/skilled opponent to land a kill. They can and do still land kills and can be incredibly deadly, mind you. Just that it's much tougher now than it once was.

OPKossy wrote: »

This is entirely correct. Which is why I keep saying you're pushing your bias a bit too heavily, Hot. The damage gap itself isn't nearly as vast as you've been consistently claiming it is. It's the mechanics of the skills themselves remaining as generally slow channeling skills that are supposed to deal large damage, yet don't actually deal damage that's significantly higher than the DPS skills anymore that cause issues. Were the skills more retooled for DPS (remember how when psys came out the general consensus was Psy for DPS and Wiz for DPH due to the nature of their skills) or beefed up for more DPH, there wouldn't really be an issue with the role of wizards. As is, however, they have nuke speed but their base and skill damage is simply average. Which leads to the problem I showed occurs when a DPH class tries to DPS.