Community Update [May]
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Temeilion - Harshlands wrote: »Tickets were sumbitted at the time..and many times..
It was brought up on these forums a few times and the knowledge was kept alive long enough for someone who actually cares to show up
then Sparkie said he would look into it..some thing no Mod or forums admin ever said
thats when people came forward and the info was sent the correct way..agian..months after the initial offence
come on Mods lets not twist all the info and timeing to make it look otherwise
We have no way to no about the tickets. I do not work for PWE.
The someone who actually cared to go get Sparkie, that was me and Kossy. And I quite frankly wasn't the only mod to bring it to his attention. From there, Sparkie investigated it. And actually the CMs I have worked with have all quietly investigated player issues brought to the forums before, although usually it's told to submit a ticket. And again, I didn't hear of it until the whole cape thing. I was only show it brought up twice, within days of each other. By the same person. The first time the person provided no workable information. The second time, he just added a kiss off to the mod who closed it. The person's behavior the is what you would like, and it accomplished nothing. Afterwards, proof was brought into the picture. You got the GMs involved. And then is when it was looked into. Proof is the defining difference.
IT's all right there. ---> http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1676471&page=2
A lot of grief could've been resolved and the matter could've been resolved much faster if it was handled by sending a PM to Sparkie in the first place. Or DefenderofDreams. Or one of the moderators so they could forward it to a GM who can do something about it. Rather than the first attempt where it was presented as a weird, one off flame that appeared to have no basis in reality rather than a legitimate concern with proof sent quietly to Sparkie.0 -
Whats important is that it got looked at, whats important is that Sparkie seems keen on fixing things. I'm glad that your issue has been addresss (or at least seems to be) but a blanket allowing of naming and shaming still wouldnt on the whole fix things. I think your point has only proven that proper forum management has proven results.Temeilion - Harshlands wrote: »Tickets were sumbitted at the time..and many times..
It was brought up on these forums a few times and the knowledge was kept alive long enough for someone who actually cares to show up
then Sparkie said he would look into it..some thing no Mod or forums admin ever said
thats when people came forward and the info was sent the correct way..agian..months after the initial offence
come on Mods lets not twist all the info and timeing to make it look otherwise
But had it been your way..no-one would have remembered the event by the time Sparkie became our CM
Now can we get a GM in game? for 2 weeks now we have had toons post about websites offering 10m coins. Ppl have even fallen for the scam b:shocked0 -
The fake bidding..Sparkie wasnt here
The crown..agian sparkie wasnt here
The Mog glitch
The card set yup thats right Sparkie wasnt here
The goon glitch..Sparkie wasnt here
+10 orb pack glitch
lol how was anyone to follow proper rules when they are trying to report this stuff to a ticket office that doesnt respond..or requires the proof to be judge judy type cretified...
all these things have only ever been addressed after countless ruckas was made on the forums
at the loss of thousands of players when all these threads where closed ignored..or refered too as being check on..
Mods knew about all these events..all have proven to have happened and very little was done in all of these cases by anyone.. to the extent peoples knowlegde about those who performed these acts is unknown
all the people doing all these things..are allowed to continue playing..after being responcible for driving half the game away0 -
Temeilion - Harshlands wrote: »The fake bidding..Sparkie wasnt here
The crown..agian sparkie wasnt here
The card set yup thats right Sparkie wasnt here
The goon glitch..Sparkie wasnt here
lol how was anyone to follow proper rules when they are trying to report this stuff to a ticket office that doesnt respond..or require proof the be judge judy type cretified...
all these things have only ever been addressed after countless ruckas was made on the forums
at the loss of thousands of players when all these threads where closed ignored..or refered too as being check on..
Mods knew about all these events..all have proven to have happened and very little was done in all of these cases by anyone.. to the extent peoples knowlegde about those who performed these acts is unknown
all the people doing all these things..are allowed to continue playing..after being responcible for driving half the game away
There was one thread, it was just a flame. He didn't even offer anything that was strange to notice about the cards. Nothing, nada, zip. He even threw in some unnecessary digs about the faction the person was in. It's no wonder that type of flame did not produce favorable results. Once it was handled properly on both the forums and through PMS (brought to attention on forums in a way that didn't just seem like some untrue random insult, and proof given through PMs) the issue was resolved.
As for the goon glitch, I don't think anyone liked the way Frankie handled that. Frankie didn't like the way he handled it and apologized about the lack of bans. And btw, the mods did nothing to hide and it is another example of the power of the community where when they focus on bringing up problems in a legitimate manner, they can bring awareness to an issue easily. And what would harassing those people have done to fix it? They'd still be 105. All the people that were harassed were only irritated.
The orb thing? Not an example of naming and shaming producing results. In fact people were perfectly able to express their displeasure with that, without naming any names. It is unnecessary. What would harassing those people have done. What good would have brought? They'd still be +10-12. So no good would have come to that.
Meanwhile you still would have the issue of innocent people's reputation being destroyed. Look at Kawaii Jen who was constantly harassed on the forums, because people accused her without proof constantly. Even though she had reached 105 legitimately and was one of the few at the time who had. And had even proven it.0 -
And during each incident you've listed we've had a CM that WAS there and should have been contacted, be that Hey, you!, frankie, DoD, synchroze, or even sparkie. Trying to use the fact we didn't have our current CM as an excuse for misbehavior is ridiculous. That's like me claiming we should all throw a fit over the Scroll of Tome duping glitch that got shut down and punished appropriately because it happened and Dvorak wasn't here for it.
And the ruckus on the forums had nothing to do with several things being addressed. Then goon glitch involved waiting for China to get off their butts and send us a (incredibly stupid, IMO) fix to the solution. MoG got shut down the instant it was discovered and even after they fixed the problem they removed the rank related items from DQ rewards permanently. The +10 fiasco had it's own dedicated forum topic COMPLETELY for that and people still felt the need to spam the forums with topics about it. Said excess topics were either closed or merged to the topic they should have been put in to begin with.
Really your claims hold no weight in comparison to what actually did happen. Heck, the +10 orb fiasco distinctly proves you wrong. The very CAUSE of that was... the staff that do see the forums feeling bad because of the **** that gets thrown around in the forums and pushing for the orbs to be something everyone could get instead of just those in the server they were originally compensation for. Had people not run to the forums complaining about people from that server using the orbs in whatever way they felt like, no staff member would have pushed for a code everyone could use and the orb exploit as we know it wouldn't have happened!(Insert fancy image here)
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its just a pattern
a pattern of abuse and failure to punish or properly resolve these abuses...to the point its hurt an otherwise great game
The forums have help spread a lvl of non reporting and under playing these events time and time agian until there evintual truth comes out and ruins the game for more and more players.
Keeping it all hush hush sure doesnt seem to have helped prevent anything
Not knowing how people were punished for the continual abuse of rules
Not being able to see if rules are used fairly because of the non disclosure of anyone elses infraction prevents the cross reffrence
Im glad we have a CM...in any event thats a major improvment
Oh and i love this game..i play daily and i want only what "I" think will bring it back to life..
Im not threatening to quit..i love my Archer and some parts of this game are far better than any competition in the MMO market... i say these things cause i want PWI to stick around
We need Drama..we need active free forums with new people fealing free to post without fearing they are going to get banned locked etc..heck most people expect flaming or smack talk..
As a nube if im asking a question on the forums..i know most the responces are trolls..i also know the info will probably be put out by one of em..the others will make fun of how i asked the question.
heck laughing at dummys and peoples responces to them is most of the reasons we come to the forums0 -
Temeilion - Harshlands wrote: »its just a pattern
a pattern of abuse and failure to punish or properly resolve these abuses...to the point its hurt an otherwise great game
The forums have help spread a lvl of non reporting and under playing these events time and time agian until there evintual truth comes out and ruins the game for more and more players.
Keeping it all hush hush sure doesnt seem to have helped prevent anything
Not knowing how people were punished for the continual abuse of rules
Not being able to see if rules are used fairly because of the non disclosure of anyone elses infraction prevents the cross reffrence
Im glad we have a CM...in any event thats a major improvment
I agree that not punshing the people who exploited those things did have a negative impact on the forums and the games. It's those kinds of things that caused people to leave. But that's a problem from the GM end. Not a problem brought about through moderation. Nor would any of those problems have been resolved by naming and shaming. In fact, in the case of goon glitch, it made some innocent people's playtime legitimately worse. And Kawaii Jen is a prime example. She was constantly having to defend herself from harassment. And although the mods did delete it, it didn't help that the forum community as a whole was intent on crucifying her for the crime of obtaining 105 legitimately at the wrong time. And what did constantly trying to bring up particular names solve? Absolutely nothing. The abusers kept playing and just ignored the people complaining about it. If they had cared what people thought of it in the first place, they would not have done it.
No good came out of it. I'm not saying the way the GM handled that was right. Frankieraye himself admitted it was not. IT's still a sore spot within the community. But naming and shaming would not have improved that situation in any way, and the attempts at doing so did actual harm to innocent people.0 -
Yes but all those who obtained that 105 the wrong way..went on to run off hundreds of other players themselves by chain killing lvl 101`s.
so we lost a falsely accused person..and all those people frustrated by those allowed to keep and profit for years to come from there ill gotten gains and the huge advantage handed to those lucky few
your already having people falsly accused..and those who did it got away...might as well call em out now
your paying the price for both..but useing neither0 -
Temeilion - Harshlands wrote: »Yes but all those who obtained that 105 the wrong way..went on to run off hundreds of other players themselves by chain killing lvl 101`s.
so we lost a falsely accused person..and all those people frustrated by those allowed to keep there illgotten gains
your already having people falsly accused..and those who did it got away...might as well call em out now
your paying the price for both..but useing neither
Naming and Shaming wouldn't have stopped those people from quitting. They quit because of a lack of punishment, not just because it wasn't open season on harassment. At least the majority did. It was about a lack of justice. Indiscriminate and blind harassment without proof is not justice.
You remove the false accusations, and eventually it goes away. People get tired of having their comment deleted. It worked out for Kawaii Jen, and she was eventually able to move on from it. Even was a mod for a while. If every time she posted it was open season on harassment, whose to say if that would have happened. One thing is for sure though, it would not have been right or fair for her to constantly have to put up with that.0 -
Very true and nothing to do with forums and moderation and/or naming and shaming but there are still too many ppl here (in game) that repeatedly abused and got away with it. I know of ppl who abused the goon, that abused other glitches, abused the +10 and still are the here. These are the kinda things and the mismanagement of them that ultimately led ppl awayoVenusArmanio wrote: »I agree that not punshing the people who exploited those things did have a negative impact on the forums and the games. It's those kinds of things that caused people to leave. But that's a problem from the GM end. Not a problem brought about through moderation. Nor would any of those problems have been resolved by naming and shaming. In fact, in the case of goon glitch, it made some innocent people's playtime legitimately worse. And Kawaii Jen is a prime example. She was constantly having to defend herself from harassment. And although the mods did delete it, it didn't help that the forum community as a whole was intent on crucifying her for the crime of obtaining 105 legitimately at the wrong time. And what did constantly trying to bring up particular names solve? Absolutely nothing. The abusers kept playing and just ignored the people complaining about it. If they had cared what people thought of it in the first place, they would not have done it.
No good came out of it. I'm not saying the way the GM handled that was right. Frankieraye himself admitted it was not. IT's still a sore spot within the community. But naming and shaming would not have improved that situation in any way, and the attempts at doing so did actual harm to innocent people.0 -
there has to be a Happy middle somewhere
I do see Mods point..i can agree harassment on individual lvls can not be allowed
But i also think Becomeing a TW faction officer..opens a person up to closer scrutiny (and it should)
I think something can be worked around with this name/shame rule..to allow proper discourse about the plans plots and intentions of those few(who choose to hold those possitions)
Who`s individual actions effect soo many in this game
This is really all i have on the topic..i know there is a middle ground here somewhere0 -
fixed us good this time didnt pwi look at all the players ready to leave this game and all of them old players what will you do when we decided to say good by to pwi without the core based players new ones will not have guadiance for any thing your CS ers for the most part pay and play frost to 100 buy the best gear and have no idea what a quest is so how will they help this game move forward . The message your sending to the play for free aspect of this game as long passed your idea of free to play.or is it now pay to play and compete . Hope your team understand this but im sure they have all thought about what this will do and its a planned thing so whats next . 6 months you have had to work on a simple thing like DQ pts in event shop and this is the best u can come up with shame on your minds stop thinking and start doing ill stop here but cant say enough please stop killing this game0
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sparkiesoft wrote: »That's all I have for now, but if anything changes, or anything new comes, I'll be sure to update, and add to this thread.
Maybe next time? The event boutique changes were maybe just not a good example b:sad~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 890 -
oVenusArmanio wrote: »Naming and Shaming wouldn't have stopped those people from quitting. They quit because of a lack of punishment, not just because it wasn't open season on harassment. At least the majority did. It was about a lack of justice. Indiscriminate and blind harassment without proof is not justice.
You remove the false accusations, and eventually it goes away. People get tired of having their comment deleted. It worked out for Kawaii Jen, and she was eventually able to move on from it. Even was a mod for a while. If every time she posted it was open season on harassment, whose to say if that would have happened. One thing is for sure though, it would not have been right or fair for her to constantly have to put up with that.
I absolutely agree with this, Venus has hit the nail on the head for me and my friends, it really was about the lack of punishment time and time again, it does not matter what game I play in life whether its football, cricket or PC games if the referee is not willing or capable of punishing and being seen to punish people who break the rules then there is no point in me playing as I abide by the rules and therefore will always be at a disadvantage no matter how well I play.
For those who think I should have joined the cheats "Two wrongs do not make a right".
As to naming and shaming, it would be subject to abuse and most likely by the very same people who think its ok to cheat in the first place giving them another avenue to try and gain an unfair advantage over others.There are old Warriors, and bold Warriors,
but there are very few old bold Warriors. b:chuckle0 -
I just want to be able to call someone out when i know they are running two or three Major TW factions on one server and hordeing TW proceeds to better there alts by preventing any Organized Competition.
or fake bidding Middle of a TW season on a key battle and ruining TW for hundreds for the rest of the season forceing many to just out right quit..once they found out the culprits only got a 3 week ban.(that same faction won TW season that year as a slap in the face)
If these issues were correctly addressed then maybe we wouldnt need the power to be able to continualy call them out...maybe these things would stop,
But without the power to call them out
and without punishment for them
what can you expect..but for it to continue ?
im open to any alternative that gives me either a fighting chance to expose it,or brings back some form of fair play0 -
I see just one thing, 20 rage page about change in event pw boutique and u guys fix it prety fast. But what about change in drop skill book from sot\abbs to fsp, there also alot page about it and nothink changed, i as a representative of fishy race (assasin) i wanna enjoy the game and get my skill book for primal skill like other race and don't pay for it 100+ gold, before this 89-lvl skill was in sot\abba it's also was wrong coz they must be in brimstone\eden, but change it to fsp this is last punch for fishy (wanna skill go pay for it). So mainly question, we must get 20+ rage page about our skills before pwi stuff will make somethink or what?0
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Nagibatel - Lost City wrote: »I see just one thing, 20 rage page about change in event pw boutique and u guys fix it prety fast. But what about change in drop skill book from sot\abbs to fsp, there also alot page about it and nothink changed, i as a representative of fishy race (assasin) i wanna enjoy the game and get my skill book for primal skill like other race and don't pay for it 100+ gold, before this 89-lvl skill was in sot\abba it's also was wrong coz they must be in brimstone\eden, but change it to fsp this is last punch for fishy (wanna skill go pay for it). So mainly question, we must get 20+ rage page about our skills before pwi stuff will make somethink or what?
PWI doesn't get to call the shots on drops. They have to take that sort of thing up with China and if the devs don't want to do it then sucks for us. The cash shop is under their control and they can do text changes on their own as well (hence why most of our patches are localization). Actual change to the game's code, on the other hand, is all done by the fine folks in China.(Insert fancy image here)0 -
I would welcome the mods deleteing posts. I read to page 6 of 20 and the majority of the post where complaining about mods deleting posts. All those posts should be deleted/moved.
I came to this thread to read what ideas ppl had for changes and why.
So, first order of business MODS: delete the off topic posts.
On topic:
You said you want to hear our reasons? Well, back at you! Why did you change DQ? etc etc etc, PWI consistantly makes decisions/takes action that we are never informed of.
DQ items. You should not have removed the old system before you implemented a new one.
ARC: Pointless, your efforts could have been better spent elsewhere this is an unneeded addition.
High level comtent. We need a team base instance to gain exp. Something that requires a full squad to complete. I can solo most everything in game. This makes the game boring.
Streamline dailies... Increase rewards by 7 and make dalies into weeklies. (or something, you get my point) I spend all my time alloted for game play just doing dalies.
Server merge: I don't know what the culture in other servers is but Harshlands is dead. All the great players are in one faction, all the good players are in the other faction... then everyone else makes up 10 or so factions that cant do anything team/pvp related.
If you expect this game to survive you are going to have to
1) Merge servers
or
2) Allow ppl to change servers (Don't worry you can charge 200 dollars in cash shop for it)
or
3) Recruit more people to play in Harshlands.
or some combination of the above.
Good Luck with the game.
Pav0 -
Untamed_Pav - Harshlands wrote: »You said you want to hear our reasons? Well, back at you! Why did you change DQ? etc etc
Pav
For the reason behind making DQ30-70 offer 1 coin each, I believe frankieraye answered that long long time ago. Something to do with RMT related issues.
Although the removal of the DQ points thing is still a mystery.0 -
Samaranight - Sanctuary wrote: »For the reason behind making DQ30-70 offer 1 coin each, I believe frankieraye answered that long long time ago. Something to do with RMT related issues.
Although the removal of the DQ points thing is still a mystery.
PWI didn't change em. China killed the prices (among other changes such as low level decomposition issues and so on) because of botting. Then that didn't work so china nerfed the low level DQ prices because of botting. Then that didn't work so China nerfed the 31-71 prices too. Then THAT didn't work so China created an "official" bot.(Insert fancy image here)0 -
Interesting read. Still kind of depressing to see a lot of the same problems that were here when I actually moved away from this forum a while back, but hopefully some of those can be resolved in the near future.
Also, hi. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(Signature credit to NowItsAwn)
Survivor of Snow-Mageddon 2010, "The Great Earthquake" of 2011, and Sandy 2012 b:victory0
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